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On August 24 2012 00:05 Shade_CsT wrote:
Guys, I'm a Zerg player and I was one of the first to say that Baneling Burrow-move is a bad idea. Not because it could be overpowered or else, but because it's not a creative concept, and giving Zerg too many burrow options would force your opponent to make detection ALL-THE-TIME no mater what you do.
Blizzard wants players to make choices.
Also, placing some burrow banelings at keys location is more skilled and interesting than being able to 'follow' your opponent (who doesn't have detection, or killed by you), then hit detonate.
It was a bad idea from Game Design perspective, I'm very happy to not have this.
Very good points, I completely agree.
SC2 is already far too straightforward - even though there's nothing wrong with an established metagame, there should be different ways to legitimately play.
Just thinking back to BW where it was possible to go quick carriers, which meant that games went a completely different path than, say, DT-harass/etc. And still it was POSSIBLE to do. I sincerely hope that HotS brings this back. Notice that this has nothing to do with cheese.
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As much as you put hive tech in ALLCAPS it's still less of an outlier than a DT shrine, and probably also less of an outlier than mass banshees just because of the production buildings necessary to go for it.
The issue is that you can get DTs or Banshees in the early and mid-game. You can't get burrow banes realistically until the opponent is at least on 3 bases, at which point they would have put static defense (bunker+turret, cannons) down at each base already anyways. Burrow move banes may seem deadly, but they aren't nearly as deadly as DTs or Banshees or even infestors because of the time they come out. If DT/banshees could only come out when the opponent was on 3 bases, they really wouldn't be much of a threat.
They are still useful for lategame harass, and I think zerg could use something like that, a dt sort of unit. I don't think burrow move banes would be that crazy, compared to things like the tempest, widow mine, viper, nexus recall, and while some people here may say "omg burrow move banes so op", I think blizzard has the foresight to know that all of this shit is brokenly OP, and that's just how you go about making a cool new expansion. You introduce crazy stuff, then nerf it. Maybe make burrow move banes do less damage when burrowed. Make burrow move banes leave a more obvious movement trail. Whatever, that's fine, I'm just curious why Blizzard removed it. I hardly believe they said "omg burrow move banes are just insane! No way this could ever be balanced!" and then decided to remove it.
So far, they've had some pretty good reasons to remove some OP units already (replicant prevented usage of certain units by the enemy, viper at lair tech made zerg too powerful early on, etc) and they weren't "OMG THIS SHIT IS CRAYCRAY".
with +2 banelings one shot workers so one baneling on one half and one baneling on the toher kills every worker in the mineral line
And 2 infestors with no upgrades can already kill an entire worker line guaranteed. Storm drops? So what? I bet you think the tempest with 22 range is so broken and no one will ever play hots because it will just be so op right?
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I hardly believe they said "omg burrow move banes are just insane! No way this could ever be balanced!" and then decided to remove it.
its boring
its not knew
its too easy to pull off
it requires too mcuh attention from the enemy
its too low risk
its too high reward
can already do baneling carpet bombs
enough reasons?
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Because then the enemy is forced to have detection with every expansion and every significant part of their army or they lose? DT/Banshee you can always react. Movable burrowed banelings = instantly dead army or dead mineral line if you don't invest extremely heavily in detection everywhere on the map. I don't think anyone can reasonably say having a 'if you don't have detection you instantly lose the game' scenario is a good thing.
Either way it seems silly to complain about alpha/pre-alpha units.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
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Am I the only one here thining about burrowed banelings vs marines instead of mineral lines?
Seriously, baneling landmines are powerful when used well. If the banes could be repositioned before being detonated.... that would be insanely strong.
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I wish this thread would be closed until beta gets released. I keep seeing it on the sidebar and foolishly hoping for more information on the release, such as the first round of keys going out, only to be disappointed by meaningless theory crafting..
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On August 24 2012 10:17 Kharnage wrote:
Am I the only one here thining about burrowed banelings vs marines instead of mineral lines?
Seriously, baneling landmines are powerful when used well. If the banes could be repositioned before being detonated.... that would be insanely strong.
Yep. How many times have we seen a huge ball of marines barely miss a baneling trap? If they could move while burrowed, it would be so ridiculous.
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On August 24 2012 10:26 StreetWise wrote:
I wish this thread would be closed until beta gets released. I keep seeing it on the sidebar and foolishly hoping for more information on the release, such as the first round of keys going out, only to be disappointed by meaningless theory crafting.. Exactly how I feel every time I click on this thread or other HotS threads, here or on other websites
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On August 24 2012 10:28 Vladimir wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 10:26 StreetWise wrote:
I wish this thread would be closed until beta gets released. I keep seeing it on the sidebar and foolishly hoping for more information on the release, such as the first round of keys going out, only to be disappointed by meaningless theory crafting.. Exactly how I feel every time I click on this thread or other HotS threads, here or on other websites
agreed i hope the mods close the thread
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blizz always has hated me for beta invites even though they know i own every freaking title of theirs and have played their games religiously since the mid 90s.. shows how much they actually research who they give their beta invites too... -____-
should be good times, also hoping to see some awesome kespa v. gsl showdowns in beta/ early on in the expansion.
On August 24 2012 10:33 perser84 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 10:28 Vladimir wrote:On August 24 2012 10:26 StreetWise wrote:
I wish this thread would be closed until beta gets released. I keep seeing it on the sidebar and foolishly hoping for more information on the release, such as the first round of keys going out, only to be disappointed by meaningless theory crafting.. Exactly how I feel every time I click on this thread or other HotS threads, here or on other websites agreed i hope the mods close the thread
so silly =S if any actual info was released it would be featured.. so its obvious before you click the thread that it will not have anything of importance. just sayin.
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starting to watch ro8. It sounds cool! :D
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i wish they hadnt (sorry for bad spelling) made protoss air mostly
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protoss is gonna be so boring to play compared to the other races changes. Screw this i think ill switch or play random. Well at least mothership core is kinda cool
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On August 24 2012 11:48 monx wrote:
protoss is gonna be so boring to play compared to the other races changes. Screw this i think ill switch or play random. Well at least mothership core is kinda cool
Mothership core is REALLY cool, what are you talking about? I'm really interested in seeing how it plays out.
It'll change early game, late game. You can upgrade them to mothership, use them to recall early on. Oracle's can cloak units tempests have wtf range(kiting mech is so fun hehe).
If anything I think terran got the least out of HOTS, the most bland units imo
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On August 24 2012 11:50 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 11:48 monx wrote:
protoss is gonna be so boring to play compared to the other races changes. Screw this i think ill switch or play random. Well at least mothership core is kinda cool Mothership core is REALLY cool, what are you talking about? I'm really interested in seeing how it plays out. It'll change early game, late game. You can upgrade them to mothership, use them to recall early on. Oracle's can cloak units tempests have wtf range(kiting mech is so fun hehe). If anything I think terran got the least out of HOTS, the most bland units imo
I agree, however I'm fine with that. Us Terrans have already had the most depth of the three races as it is, hence why we've been overpowered for so long.
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"Weeks after Anaheim"
I think they mixed Anaheim and Raleigh up. -_-
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On August 24 2012 12:30 SeggsyLori wrote:
"Weeks after Anaheim"
I think they mixed Anaheim and Raleigh up. -_-
In all seriousness.....stuff like that happens.
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HoTS is going to make me hate protoss. Protoss is going to be turned into the annoying little brother race. "Hey I have 22 Range you can't get me pew pew" "Oh you cornered me I'll just teleport away hehe" "Im going to stop you from mining haha" Seriously, all of these strategies are so cowardly it's ridiculous. Think of what the games will be like. "Beatiful mineral blocking there by the protoss he sure got all of those stationary minerals!" "Amazing recall to his base with his units!"
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On August 24 2012 12:40 Inquisitor1323 wrote:
HoTS is going to make me hate protoss. Protoss is going to be turned into the annoying little brother race. "Hey I have 22 Range you can't get me pew pew" "Oh you cornered me I'll just teleport away hehe" "Im going to stop you from mining haha" Seriously, all of these strategies are so cowardly it's ridiculous. Think of what the games will be like. "Beatiful mineral blocking there by the protoss he sure got all of those stationary minerals!" "Amazing recall to his base with his units!"
Well, this is what happens when all of the gate units are weak in a direct battle :D Take out the marauder and roaches and I will be fine as a toss without recall or tempest or force fields 
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EPT
