I have just finished reading the book and I think it is excellent. It discusses, among many things, why belief in God and irrational beliefs is actually good for us and our sanity. I think it offers a good and discussion point for believers, atheists, and god-haters on the psychological and practical uses of such belief system. I would like to present here for discussion some points from the book.
The existence of suffering in the world has made people question their faith for millennia. And yet many believers, rather than reject their faith, attempt to understand the purpose of the suffering. They see it as part of God’s plan
Both Christian and Muslim leaders claimed the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami that killed a quarter of a million people in Indonesia was punishment from God. After Hurricane Katrina flooded New Orleans in 2005, Mayor Ray Nagin said God was “mad at America” for the Iraq war, while a Christian group noted a resemblance between a satellite image of the storm and an ultrasound image of a fetus, suggesting that Katrina came to avenge the “ten child-murder-by-abortion centers” in Louisiana. Glenn Beck called the earthquake and tsunami that hit Japan in early 2011 a “message” to humanity. And of course Noah would have something to say on the matter of floods. It’s no coincidence the legal term for an unpreventable natural disaster is an “act of God.”
We might even give more credit to a higher power for bad stuff than for good stuff. We tend to think more about what causes negative experiences than positive experiences, in part because they’re more unexpected and in part because they mean something’s wrong and needs diagnosing and fixing. And our favorite types of explanations are those involving intentional agents (usually a person or animal), rather than chance or impersonal causality, because we can do more with that information. So it makes logical sense that good fortune goes unquestioned but disruptions become whodunits.
All this belief and blaming on the supernatural (God) provide a good handle to people to get a perspective on the problem and approach it properly, whether the manner of doing this is theological (praying and doing good works) or practical (directly taking responsibility and eventually addressing the issue). The more important issue therefore is not on the empirical evidence of the existence of God, but on why such beliefs offer a reinforcing feedback on some people in their encounter with problems in life.
If people can't accept that bad things happen and end up pinning it on a supernatural being, they're only being foolish as we have many explanations for such disasters. While religion may contribute to solving problems, things that aren't religious also contribute to solving problems. People would send aid to areas that have been devastated regardless of whether a religious organisation was telling them to do it or not.
I didn't seen you mention the antagonists of the mind like buddha. He is very important part of the psycological aspect of belief in idels and shouldn't to be forgot. Sometimes the mind is like a jaguar, sometimes like a lion, but all the time like a brain. It is this beliefes that holds us tether to the stone.
On June 16 2012 23:35 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote: i don't see this thread ending well... you should generally try to avoid religious discussions on the internet
Leave the religious discussions off of TL... just for the sake of saving headaches trying to argue with religious people is pointless because what they think they believe isn't based off of a logical standpoint.
Being in a world filled with religious people is not good for my sanity at all, hence your title is clearly an incorrect hypothesis.
I think if everyone DIDN'T believe in talking snakes and magical trees, invisible sky daddies, I'd feel a hell of a lot saner.
Yes, we atheists all go insane and need medical support. Seriously i can understand that people are weak and need to belive in something to not crumble, but we for the most part would be a lot better off without god. And by a lot better off i mean i'd be living on the moon right now. People need to man up and accept that when we die we return to nothingness. Basically people's weakness are the reason we are not more technologically advanced. Also a lot more people would be alive if it wasn't for the church.
In relation to the quote : in the middle age they also found a supernatural scapegoat in witches, see how that turned out ?
Having said all of that i will admit that i don't recall buddah doing anything bad for mankind, so i guess i wouldn't mind if everyone who can't handle life belived in a god as inoffensive as him.
Be mature guys. Downright negativity and back seat moderating is not a way to discuss topics. If you feel it is too much for you, you may choose not to chime in. There are others who will happily discuss things that you don't find important.
I actually saw something interesting about this on youtube:
among other things it explains how religion is one of the things that can keep a person sane. Apart from that, I'm not really religious myself, but I usually find it a charming trait as in my eyes it shows a certain modesty if a person is willing to accept that there will always be someone/something above them, regardless of how powerful they get.
On June 16 2012 23:42 Marti wrote: Yes, we atheists all go insane and need medical support. Seriously i can understand that people are weak and need to belive in something to not crumble, but we for the most part would be a lot better off without god. And by a lot better off i mean i'd be living on the moon right now. People need to man up and accept that when we die we return to nothingness. Basically people's weakness are the reason we are not more technologically advanced. Also a lot more people would be alive if it wasn't for the church.
In relation to the quote : in the middle age they also found a supernatural scapegoat in witches, see how that turned out ?
Having said all of that i will admit that i don't recall buddah doing anything bad for mankind, so i guess i wouldn't mind if everyone who can't handle life belived in a god as inoffensive as him.
Also a religion thread here is like a trollbait.
Apparently it is bait for short sighted people like you. You "can't understand that people are weak and need to believe in something to not crumble"? Easy to say for someone he is sitting on his ass behind his computer being cynical about the world. Open your eyes man, there are people who go through such unimaginable suffering that to me it's not so strange that they would choose to believe in something that might be unimaginable for others.
On June 16 2012 23:43 xwoGworwaTsx wrote: Be mature guys. Downright negativity and back seat moderating is not a way to discuss topics. If you feel it is too much for you, you may choose not to chime in. There are others who will happily discuss things that you don't find important.
No, it's because it's important and we find it important that it shouldn't be discussed on TL like this.
@Above: Religion is the OPPOSSITE of modesty. It's based off of narcissism. Ever seen a religious person who disagrees with what god does? no. Funny how they always share the same opinions. Funny how religious people get offended when you badmouth god...it's almost as if you're talking about THEM.
Isn't it strange how if you ask a religious person "what if god said killing children was ok (which he does anyway)" they say "he wouldnt say that"....what they mean is "I Wouldn't say that" because they are "god" in their subconscious.
Religion is the oppossite of modesty, it's extreme narcissism and that's why they're so grounded in their beliefs. It protects their ego to pretend their beliefs are divinely inspires. Without it, they feel insecure.
Also, you act like all atheists think they're the best person in the world...ridiculous. I know there's always better PEOPLE than me which is more important.
Both Christian and Muslim leaders claimed the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami that killed a quarter of a million people in Indonesia was punishment from God. After Hurricane Katrina flooded New Orleans in 2005, Mayor Ray Nagin said God was “mad at America” for the Iraq war, while a Christian group noted a resemblance between a satellite image of the storm and an ultrasound image of a fetus, suggesting that Katrina came to avenge the “ten child-murder-by-abortion centers” in Louisiana. Glenn Beck called the earthquake and tsunami that hit Japan in early 2011 a “message” to humanity. And of course Noah would have something to say on the matter of floods. It’s no coincidence the legal term for an unpreventable natural disaster is an “act of God.”
Yeah, that's exactly how I would describe sane people.
On June 16 2012 23:35 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote: i don't see this thread ending well... you should generally try to avoid religious discussions on the internet
fixed that for you.
Well, yes, if you're a theist. In real life you can appeal to "decency" and act offended and make it seem like you're not completely full of shit. No such luck on the internet.
this will inevitably turn into a shit show, but here's my 2 cents. religion sucks and shouldn't exist, but it's so deeply rooted in human history that it always will. people will believe what they believe. ignorance is bliss, but i don't see stephen hawking falling apart at the seams.
I don't understand the point of these ideas. Any thinking person knows this not to be true.
All this belief and blaming on the supernatural (God) provide a good handle to people to get a perspective on the problem and approach it properly, whether the manner of doing this is theological (praying and doing good works)
I don't think approaching a problem properly involves praying...might just be me but you should actually act and work towards solving something if you want to get it done, instead of standing around waiting for the hand in the sky that never comes. And secondly doing "good works" has nothing to do with being theological. It's a philosophical/moral realm. So you contradict yourself when you say a belief in God gives a good handle on how to solve problems and approach it properly.
So the point that guy is trying to make is that human beings don't have the willpower to accept reality the way it is and because of that "need" a fairytale to keep them from realising that this life doesn't really mean anything? Cool.
I think there's a big question, the definition of sanity, that needs to be tackled before we can have this discussion. As a very secularized individual I find it anything but sane to attribute meterological phenomenon to acts of God. Predicting the weather is an actual science, and you cannot discount this because you want to make a point about abortion, for example.
I also don't think it's particularly good for the psyche to use supernatural beings as scapegoats. While it is convenient in that it removes blame from oneself, it also encourages irresponsible behaviour. Obviously in terms of natural disasters, the individual can't take responsibility, but if one starts using this supernatural scapegoat in more mundane everyday situations, I think it can be bad for the psyche.
While I commend the OP on the effort he's put into this topic I am still going to close it. Religion topics never end well. I wish it were otherwise but it is not. Sorry.
...whatever makes you happy I suppose.. its shitty to blame a 'superior being' when shit hits the fan (like the tsunami), and ignore all the other principles of the religion. by suffering and blaming "god", you will be coming nowhere closer to enlightenment... i think rationality and knowledge will help with that
EPT
