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Keep this civil, guys |
On May 04 2012 21:24 BXiT wrote:
Actually it does :/ The goal of words is really to transmit an idea, an emotion or an intent to someone. They have no meaning otherwise.
The goal of words is to communicate. No more no less. If you use offensive language to do so then people will get offended. I fail to see how this could possibly be a surprise to anyone in civilised society.
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On May 04 2012 21:24 Laids wrote:
The way this 'community' handled itself and continues to handle itself, whenever something controversial happens, is hilarious. It's a constant reminder that children on the internet will always regress a few years to throwing shit at each other, BECUZ ITZ FUN.
You didn't stop racism/bigotry or some hate crime, you almost damaged a team with 24 +BF3 team players, as well as the staff who get paid a fucking wage so they can live. So congratulations, you truly are are paragon of hope for the future.
Destiny should never have been on Quanatic, something like this will alway's happen when you have places like Reddit, that will aimlessly destroy a persons career because of mob mentality. It's fucking ridiculous, It happended with Katu, it nearly happened to HDStarcraft, because they 'didn't like his casting'. It will CONTINUE to happen.
Seriously go and look at the WoW forums or SC forums and then come back to the thread this all started with. It's absurd that somehow on those forums they are mocked (rightfully), but here they can stand by the banner of 'esports' like it protects them. It shouldn't, they should be wrung the fuck out and told to form a somewhat educated opinion.
I'm not even mentioning what was said/not said on Destiny's stream, because it's not even the most shocking thing, which IS sad.
Destiny brought this upon himself and has only himself to blame.
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Why is everybody so sensitive about these words? Playing starcraft at a high level is like doing sports, your adrenaline rushes and you get mad at the opponent, its the most normal thing in the world. In football, players always get in brawls and insult each other. So what if he calls his asian opponent a gook out of anger in the game, its like he doesnt even mean him personally, he just wants to get back at the guy for being owned. IMO anything goes in that moment and every sportsmen knows that.
Now if he goes on a 10 minute rant on how asians are stupid or whatever, thats a completely different thing and actually racist, but what he did is not, its just an outburst of anger.
Its totally different to think about and believe in the theory that one race is better/smarter/etc. than another which would make one a racist and just angrily shouting/texting the worst insult you can think off at a given time.
I rage too on ladder (only occasionally) and i call people faggots just for the fuck of it, I just built a city for 20 minutes and you destroyed it what do you expect? But Im not a homophobe or anything, its just a word ill say to get to you and make you mad aswell.
Im really upset with those emailers, they feel so entitled to themselves, just do not watch destiny if you dont like his choice of words, how hard is that concept to understand? Instead you force your opinion on others, how can you be that obnoxious, just leave it alone, dont get involved with it.
If you censor certain words, they wont disappear. If you say the n-word, Ill think of the word nigger. You just made me say it in my own head. Why wont you fucking say it, if we both think of the same exact thing?
Destiny should not be forced to leave the team and sponsors should not have been informed and most importantly our community should have stuck together, instead of hunting destiny down and get him kicked out.
I read Gheeds blog and he was so right, you treat eSports like a cult, worship people like day9 like the messias and cleanse our community off evil people like orb and destiny who dont conform to this faggotry. Now let me tell you, I was in this for 2 years, watching and playing this game on a nearly daily basis and although it may have its flaws I really loved it and supported the game and its players and casters where I could, althought I never bought any hd pass or anything else for money, but I commented, tweeted and most importantly played and watched.
But I think thats it for me, you can have your Startology, Ill be playing Diablo soon, finally.
I dont think racism is fun or entertaining, and ill bet you destiny and orb dont think so either.
They are just ragers. And IF anyone from the reddit community would actually play this game once in a while, they would know how hard losing feels in this game.
For everyone hating on 4chan in this thread, its not only a cesspool of racist and edgy teenagers, its actually the definition of free speech, a place where genius and stupidity can appear at all times. We should value such a place, I guess in a few years from now everything on the internet is gonna be facebook, youtube or google. we can still decide which account to log in with and who we get surveiled by, at least, thats so awesome, right guys?
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On May 04 2012 21:26 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 21:16 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 21:12 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 21:10 BXiT wrote:On May 04 2012 21:04 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 04 2012 20:53 BXiT wrote:
In your place of the word maybe. I've got 2 gay friend who are together and doesn't mind AT ALL (from their mouth) when we call somebody or themself faggot. In the context of playing a game, we consider being part of expression friendly frustration. Why can't you accept that people don't always live like you ? Emphasis mine. Go walk into a gay bar in town and start randomly calling people you don't know there faggots. Might be a slightly different response. 100% with you. That behavior is condamnable. But because this one is bad does NOT means that calling someone a faggot over a game is. Actually--what he's saying is that the act is homophobic and bigoted. The fact that your friends aren't insulted and you aren't insulted does not make it not homophobic or bigoted. How insulted the other person is and how malicious you are with your intent does not define whether something is racist or bigoted. Actually it does :/ The goal of words is really to transmit an idea, an emotion or an intent to someone. They have no meaning otherwise. I think we can stop here, if we have such a different viewpoint on this core point. Good luck in your life and I hope you will never make THE great Destiny's mistake, so that you will be able to feed your family for ever. Words also have historical weight attached to them in order for them to convey information. I don't communicate by making random sounds I communicate by using words that have specific meanings to them. If I used words that labeled a social group synonymous with being weaker or less deserving than me--then I am being bigoted no matter how nice I was when I said it. For example. Faggot, by itself, means nothing. "I can't believe you won you faggot" Is you equating the word faggot with an individual who should not win--hence why you "can't believe" that he did. A lot of people will not be insulted by your turn of phrase. And you most likely used that turn of phrase because it was a common thing to say in your society. The phrase is still bigoted, because to understand the phrase you need to accept that "faggots are people that don't win" in order to understand the phrase at all. The bigotry is from society and it is being perpetuated by the speaker of the phrase. This is true for all bigoted words. This is a very nice post and sums up my thoughts on the matter. Calling someone a nigger is different from calling someone an asshole.
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On May 04 2012 21:21 iTsCaRNaGe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 21:20 zeru wrote:
And thats what is supposed to happen when someome makes racist and homophobic comments in a professional environment, god luck trying that anywhere else and expecting not to get fired. It's about damn time actually. I laugh at the attempts to justify the things he says with "its just words"/"free speech". The SC2 ladder is a professional environment? I'm pro and I never even knew it?
I actually think this is one of the most important posts in the entire thread. Mainly because unlike almost all other professions SC2 is very very closely tied to the amateur community with the distinction being almost arbitrary in some cases. I think, like professional athletes in general, if you get to a point where you are in the spotlight enough, pretty much every public comment you make is expected to be reflect well on yourself, your team, and your sponsors.
In any event, I think the issue is in part the fact that SC2 has its amateur and professional worlds VERY closely integrated in an almost unprecedented way. No pro athletes are regularly contributing to boards like team liquid alongside fans, no professional atheletes regularly play against the top rated amateurs the way they do on SC2 ladder, etc. Its just very full of blurry lines the way most things aren't. That is part of what makes the SC2 scene so interesting to me actually, it is very tangible and real to me in contrast to the way that most pro sports feel very "far away" to me. But it is something that is going to increasingly need to get worked out I think.
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On May 04 2012 21:27 DonYuan wrote:
I'm only doing this because I read the stupid post by Destiny talking shit, saying his income isn't effected etc etc. Your mouth is going to get you in trouble there tough guy.
The way to get him is to complain to his streaming site owned. Get him kicked off there and he's working at madonalds where he belongs. See how tough he talks then.
Umm... You're greatly confused. You do realize all of these players own3d.tv streams is what generates the own3d.tv revenue, and own3d.tv is at no risk by these players doing what they do because the majority of their viewers don't care. If the viewers did care they simply wouldn't have as many viewers as they do now. Do you think Destiny is the only one who streams with a potty mouth?
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On May 04 2012 21:28 probob wrote:
Why is everybody so sensitive about these words? Playing starcraft at a high level is like doing sports, your adrenaline rushes and you get mad at the opponent, its the most normal thing in the world. In football, players always get in brawls and insult each other. So what if he calls his asian opponent a gook out of anger in the game, its like he doesnt even mean him personally, he just wants to get back at the guy for being owned. IMO anything goes in that moment and every sportsmen knows that.
Now if he goes on a 10 minute rant on how asians are stupid or whatever, thats a completely different thing and actually racist, but what he did is not, its just an outburst of anger.
Its totally different to think about and believe in the theory that one race is better/smarter/etc. than another which would make one a racist and just angrily shouting/texting the worst insult you can think off at a given time.
I rage too on ladder (only occasionally) and i call people faggots just for the fuck of it, I just built a city for 20 minutes and you destroyed it what do you expect? But Im not a homophobe or anything, its just a word ill say to get to you and make you mad aswell.
Im really upset with those emailers, they feel so entitled to themselves, just do not watch destiny if you dont like his choice of words, how hard is that concept to understand? Instead you force your opinion on others, how can you be that obnoxious, just leave it alone, dont get involved with it.
If you censor certain words, they wont disappear. If you say the n-word, Ill think of the word nigger. You just made me say it in my own head. Why wont you fucking say it, if we both think of the same exact thing?
Destiny should not be forced to leave the team and sponsors should not have been informed and most importantly our community should have stuck together, instead of hunting destiny down and get him kicked out.
I read Gheeds blog and he was so right, you treat eSports like a cult, worship people like day9 like the messias and cleanse our community off evil people like orb and destiny who dont conform to this faggotry. Now let me tell you, I was in this for 2 years, watching and playing this game on a nearly daily basis and although it may have its flaws I really loved it and supported the game and its players and casters where I could, althought I never bought any hd pass or anything else for money, but I commented, tweeted and most importantly played and watched.
But I think thats it for me, you can have your Startology, Ill be playing Diablo soon, finally.
I dont think racism is fun or entertaining, and ill bet you destiny and orb dont think so either.
They are just ragers. And IF anyone from the reddit community would actually play this game once in a while, they would know how hard losing feels in this game.
For everyone hating on 4chan in this thread, its not only a cesspool of racist and edgy teenagers, its actually the definition of free speech, a place where genius and stupidity can appear at all times. We should value such a place, I guess in a few years from now everything on the internet is gonna be facebook, youtube or google. we can still decide which account to log in with and who we get surveiled by, at least, thats so awesome, right guys?
I know it's hard to keep your calm when upset at work. But it's part of being professional isn't it? They're getting paid to play a game after all.
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On May 04 2012 21:21 iTsCaRNaGe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 21:20 zeru wrote:
And thats what is supposed to happen when someome makes racist and homophobic comments in a professional environment, god luck trying that anywhere else and expecting not to get fired. It's about damn time actually. I laugh at the attempts to justify the things he says with "its just words"/"free speech". The SC2 ladder is a professional environment? I'm pro and I never even knew it?
Professionalism is being paid to play. If you get paid, you're now a pro of your field. Meaning every time Destiny streams he's streaming professionally. I don't really see why people don't understand why he might need professional conduct. I thought we were arguing over whether or not its acceptable to use the language he uses.
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On May 04 2012 21:26 Lightspeaker wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 21:24 BXiT wrote:
Actually it does :/ The goal of words is really to transmit an idea, an emotion or an intent to someone. They have no meaning otherwise. The goal of words is to communicate. No more no less. If you use offensive language to do so then people will get offended. I fail to see how this could possibly be a surprise to anyone in civilised society.
One last for the sake of trying to educate at least one guy.
The meaning of the word is only relevant if the 2 guys are on the same page with its meaning.
Being french, I don't even know what's gook means. I can clearly call my other french friend a cook, even if he should be offended by it according to you, and he won't. We can even decide that it means love for us.
The same goes for me with an american friend, because he knows that I don't know the real meaning of it. He know that it was not my intend to hurt him, so he's not hurt.
I'm off. If you can understand that, I really can't do more.
<3
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On May 04 2012 21:13 LamaMitHut wrote:
What goes around, comes around. deal with it like a man.
I agree, Dont do something you will regret cuz karma is out to get you!
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On May 04 2012 16:07 Leth0 wrote:
Maybe he will stick to LoL. From my limited experience with those communities it seems like the perfect place for his 'personality'.
This x100.
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On May 04 2012 21:34 A-p-p-l-e-s wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 21:13 LamaMitHut wrote:
What goes around, comes around. deal with it like a man. I agree, Dont do something you will regret cuz karma is out to get you!
Earl can attest of that. He gets hit by a car every time he screws around 
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On May 04 2012 20:58 deusarba wrote:
If u don't like the shitface (as do I), don't watch him (like me). If you do keep on watching.
Who gives a shit..
I couldn't care less if a buss hit him on the way to a gay bar, so should you, go about your own business and stop writhing stupid shit just to fight over the internet.
I hate myself for opening this thread...
Shit storm Randy. It was bound to happen with or without you i guess..
Best of luck to the the team and Destiny.
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On May 04 2012 21:31 R3demption wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 21:21 iTsCaRNaGe wrote:On May 04 2012 21:20 zeru wrote:
And thats what is supposed to happen when someome makes racist and homophobic comments in a professional environment, god luck trying that anywhere else and expecting not to get fired. It's about damn time actually. I laugh at the attempts to justify the things he says with "its just words"/"free speech". The SC2 ladder is a professional environment? I'm pro and I never even knew it? Professionalism is being paid to play. If you get paid, you're now a pro of your field. Meaning every time Destiny streams he's streaming professionally. I don't really see why people don't understand why he might need professional conduct. I thought we were arguing over whether or not its acceptable to use the language he uses.
I swear some ppl actually still live under a rock.
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On May 04 2012 21:31 BXiT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 21:26 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 04 2012 21:24 BXiT wrote:
Actually it does :/ The goal of words is really to transmit an idea, an emotion or an intent to someone. They have no meaning otherwise. The goal of words is to communicate. No more no less. If you use offensive language to do so then people will get offended. I fail to see how this could possibly be a surprise to anyone in civilised society. One last for the sake of trying to educate at least one guy. The meaning of the word is only relevant if the 2 guys are on the same page with its meaning. Being french, I don't even know what's gook means. I can clearly call my other french friend a cook, even if he should be offended by it according to you, and he won't. We can even decide that it means love for us. The same goes for me with an american friend, because he knows that I don't know the real meaning of it. He know that it was not my intend to hurt him, so he's not hurt. I'm off. If you can understand that, I really can't do more. <3
Which is exactly why bigotry isn't about how you feel when it is said or heard. It's about the historical weight of those words. Any and all words become compliments/insults if it's simply about how the speaker/listener feels.
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On May 04 2012 21:35 Utinni wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 21:31 R3demption wrote:On May 04 2012 21:21 iTsCaRNaGe wrote:On May 04 2012 21:20 zeru wrote:
And thats what is supposed to happen when someome makes racist and homophobic comments in a professional environment, god luck trying that anywhere else and expecting not to get fired. It's about damn time actually. I laugh at the attempts to justify the things he says with "its just words"/"free speech". The SC2 ladder is a professional environment? I'm pro and I never even knew it? Professionalism is being paid to play. If you get paid, you're now a pro of your field. Meaning every time Destiny streams he's streaming professionally. I don't really see why people don't understand why he might need professional conduct. I thought we were arguing over whether or not its acceptable to use the language he uses. I swear some ppl actually still live under a rock.
Its most likely that they've never had a steady job before.
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Good. The right thing happened in the Orb situation and the right thing happened here too, as far as I'm concerned. Destiny can go and rationalize his behavious all he wants, but I'm really glad that a lot of us disagree with him.
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I really hope Destiny never changes his personality. I love that he stays true to himself no matter what happens.
I understand that he isn't racist and is just using those words in a general, non racist context to try and insult the other player for cheesing. Some people can't figure it out, though.
When IdrA calls people retarded or tells the other player to kill themselves, no one gets as butthurt and emails sponsors. Even though wishing death on someone is much worse than plainly insulting them
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On May 04 2012 21:38 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 21:35 Utinni wrote:On May 04 2012 21:31 R3demption wrote:On May 04 2012 21:21 iTsCaRNaGe wrote:On May 04 2012 21:20 zeru wrote:
And thats what is supposed to happen when someome makes racist and homophobic comments in a professional environment, god luck trying that anywhere else and expecting not to get fired. It's about damn time actually. I laugh at the attempts to justify the things he says with "its just words"/"free speech". The SC2 ladder is a professional environment? I'm pro and I never even knew it? Professionalism is being paid to play. If you get paid, you're now a pro of your field. Meaning every time Destiny streams he's streaming professionally. I don't really see why people don't understand why he might need professional conduct. I thought we were arguing over whether or not its acceptable to use the language he uses. I swear some ppl actually still live under a rock. Its most likely that they've never had a steady job before.
Your insults lead me to believe there isn't much to be said about you either.
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EPT
