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Keep this civil, guys | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
Now I've found out that Destiny actually used a racist word in the worst of context...insulting someone of the ethnicity the word was created to insult. I don't really agree with the lynch mob mentality, but there's honestly nothing that can be said to defend Destiny. | ||
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Ponera
Canada596 Posts
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Chocobo
United States1108 Posts
On May 05 2012 06:02 Tehs Tehklz wrote: So, someone pointed a gun at Destiny and said "say 'gook' one more time, motherfucker. I dare you!" No, man. They informed him sponsors of his behavior - HIS behavior - and his sponsors apparently voiced their displeasure to his team. If you think asking someone not use racial slurs is the same as forcibly compelling a person to abandon their morals in favor of yours, then I really do not know what to say to you. Sigh... no, a gun was not literally involved. I was using an analogy, please google the term and learn how they are used. They informed the sponsors of Destiny's behavior as a threat, demanding that something be done about it or else financial damage or PR problems would take place. This was done as an attempt to control Destiny's language and actions during his stream, and to punish him if he does not change. They did not ask Destiny to stop making racial slurs (not that he'd listen). They made threats and then had him punished for not conforming to their demands. I do believe that this is a form of compelling someone to follow your moral code instead of their own, and I'm not sure how it can be seen otherwise. The question is, do you find that kind of behavior to be morally acceptable? Personally I find it to be considerably worse than occasionally spewing inappropriate language on the internet. | ||
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Anomi
Sweden149 Posts
On May 05 2012 06:23 adrenaLinG wrote: This is not about the racist language in a private conversation on BNet, this is about a guy calling someone a gook on stream with thousands of viewers. Have you ever tried making a youtube video where you call someone a nigger? How about hold a press conference to tell them you think they're a faggot? Let me know how that works out for you. +1 xD. Would love to ses those comments on those youtube videos ^^ | ||
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pt
United States813 Posts
On May 05 2012 06:25 Ponera wrote: The people watching his stream knew there were pretty good odds of foul language. It's like renting a porn movie and then getting mad cause there is nudity. I think a better example would be a porn movie with profanity. (Being serious here lol) | ||
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BoZiffer
United States1841 Posts
On May 05 2012 06:22 Dosey wrote: Another poor example. In this situation, Kobe holds all the cards and received a simple slap on the wrist. $100,000.00? That's a joke to him. If you want Destiny punished in this sense, it already happened. He was removed from the list of featured streams. That is a MAJOR fine in this community especially considering a vast majority of his income comes from such. I think you missed what I'm trying to say. The final decision is up to the employer and no one is beyond repercussion for insensitive/hateful remarks regardless of stature. now the punitive strength of those repercussions may vary but nevertheless - if you say hateful things you have to beware responses against them. Thats my point. At the end of the day it isn't "everyone else's problem" - he needs to own his actions. | ||
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Northern_iight
Canada363 Posts
the end has begun. Might as well stop playing now since all the teams are going to lose their support | ||
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DarkEnergy
Netherlands542 Posts
I'm a few pages behind. I don't see Razer, MSI, intel, or any other PC hardware/peripheral/esports supporters putting money into Comedy Central, who does support their intentionally offensive (but funny) content. You are all getting off topic TRYING to find a reason to justify these acts. South Park != Starcraft/Esports not even by a long shot. It is a simple analogy. mierenneuker. | ||
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Pudge_172
United States1378 Posts
I would hate to see the young people watching he stream go up to several fine African Americans and call them the n word. People need to learn to be civil when dealing with each other. Hate speech is not funny. Hate speech is not entertaining. | ||
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Heights
United States9 Posts
As for the SC2 community: Haven't we learned by now that Destiny is going to say what's on his mind, whether it offends or not? It's been said already, if you don't like Destiny, don't support him by not tuning in to watch his stream and if you are offended by Destiny then follow that advice, but don't think that your doing the community a favor by going headhunting. In fact, your only hurting the SC2 community by putting teams and sponsors and fans of those teams, sponsors, and players in a bad situation that only causes drama and more problems within the community. And I'm not going to say that Destiny has done wonders for the SC2 community, either, but he does stream quite often (even though a lot of it is LoL these days), he's put up some valuable SC2 tips on his website for lower-level players that want to improve, and he put together a thorough guide on how to stream, as well as appearing on State of the Game a few times as a pillar, and as a guest. Stop giving sponsors and teams reasons to lose interest in the SC2 community and scene. Be happy that we have the great community that we do and the fact that it is filled with great teams, sponsors, and players, and if you dislike or disagree with a team's, sponsor's, or player's views/statements/actions, then don't support that team/sponsor/player by not cheering for them at events, not buying their products, and not watching their stream (and if you love a sponsor's products but dislike the team or player they sponsor, then buy the product anyway and be happy that your supporting a staple of the SC2 community). There is no need to target a player with such a malicious intent just because he expresses his views and opinions or uses language that you disagree with or are offended by when simply not watching his stream will suffice in keeping you from being subjected to those views, opinions, and language. I'm sure this has been said multiple times throughout the cornucopia of pages of responses, and I apologize for any recurring views and opinions. | ||
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Stubentiger
48 Posts
Destiny behaved unprofessional and not fit for representing a company, but he is not the devil ... | ||
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OTIX
Sweden491 Posts
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TricksAre4Figs
United States125 Posts
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Firereaver
India1701 Posts
On May 05 2012 06:09 BroOd wrote: Reading some of these posts feels like having a thumb pressed into my eye. So many bizarre tirades about cultural implications, word meanings, destiny's intent, society's prudeness, and any other conceivable way you could imagine to spin this into something that misses the point. Everything about this situation was summed up, for me, in that telling screen shot. Destiny was angry and frustrated that he lost to what he felt was inferior play, and as a punishment or retaliation for that, he had to make the other person feel that same anger and frustration. So, he reached for what he thought of first -- an Asian slur for someone with an Asian screen name -- in the hope that it would in some way hurt his opponent. Now, Destiny may not hate Asian people, or even dislike them. But when you use loaded, historically racist words, soaked in years of shit, you can't hang them out on the line and expect everyone to be fine with the smell. Those words have hurt people in the past and continue to hurt people today. Pretending that using them casually (like when you want to anger an anonymous Asian person so you call him a "gook") somehow dilutes their power makes it seem like you're drawing your philosophy from a half-understood George Carlin bit, and not from the pragmatic, real world we all live in together. This hallmark-card notion of "things can only hurt you if you let them" is ludicrous and everyone here has first hand evidence of that. We've all been irrationally mad before. We all have emotional buttons that someone, somewhere, could push and hurt us. Some of those buttons are personal and hidden deep inside, but some of them are worn on our sleeves, or even deeper, in our skin. It's clear that some people in this thread view that very real hurt as just collateral damage in their self-righteous war on the windmills of political correctness. Destiny isn't tearing down any walls here. We're not advancing towards a new, more enlightened stance on race issues by integrating institutionalized racist terms into our every day vocabulary. We're just constantly reminding each other of how shitty we used to be, and how shitty we can still be today. Wow BrOod! What a post. Gotta say I dont give a shit bout anyside in this non-issue, but BroOd just made soem points for life... Will use in future ty... | ||
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StarStrider
United States689 Posts
On May 05 2012 06:18 epidGoaty wrote: I'm a few pages behind. I don't see Razer, MSI, intel, or any other PC hardware/peripheral/esports supporters putting money into Comedy Central, who does support their intentionally offensive (but funny) content. You are all getting off topic TRYING to find a reason to justify these acts. South Park != Starcraft/Esports not even by a long shot. It's an analogy. No one said they are the same thing or that it fits perfectly. It's just supposed to make the discussion clearer by applying an already established or more readily understood scenario. I'm confused, what does the genre of the sponsors have to do with it? Whether it's McDonalds or Razer or Budweiser or Intel. Are you saying that these tech sponsors of esports have a higher level of political correctness than Comedy Central's sponsors and esports should respect that and deliver content that abides by their higher moral standards? | ||
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Tehs Tehklz
United States330 Posts
On May 05 2012 06:26 Chocobo wrote: Sigh... no, a gun was not literally involved. I was using an analogy, please google the term and learn how they are used. They informed the sponsors of Destiny's behavior as a threat, demanding that something be done about it or else financial damage or PR problems would take place. This was done as an attempt to control Destiny's language and actions during his stream, and to punish him if he does not change. They did not ask Destiny to stop making racial slurs (not that he'd listen). They made threats and then had him punished for not conforming to their demands. I do believe that this is a form of compelling someone to follow your moral code instead of their own, and I'm not sure how it can be seen otherwise. The question is, do you find that kind of behavior to be morally acceptable? Personally I find it to be considerably worse than occasionally spewing inappropriate language on the internet. Except these two situations are nothing alike. Your analogy was about equal to: parents are to grounded as Stalin is to gulag. That is type of analogy that you are putting forth and it is nonsense. All they did was use their own freedom of speech to express that they would not support a company that supports the use of racial slurs. That is not even remotely close to forcing anyone to do anything. | ||
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Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
On May 05 2012 06:25 WolfintheSheep wrote: I'd initially thought that this whole fiasco was about someone using a "taboo" word outside of the context in which it's taboo. Now I've found out that Destiny actually used a racist word in the worst of context...insulting someone of the ethnicity the word was created to insult. I don't really agree with the lynch mob mentality, but there's honestly nothing that can be said to defend Destiny. Exactly what I thought initially. Would have thought most people would have been able to understand the significance of the context in this case. But apparently the fight against political correctness has gone so far, that actual racism is now not only totally fine, but a show of integrity. | ||
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VPCursed
1044 Posts
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Chocobo
United States1108 Posts
On May 05 2012 06:10 Tehs Tehklz wrote: They did not demand that he change. They simply informed his sponsors that they could not, in good conscience, give their money to a company that supports the use of racial slurs in this manner. That is it. They "stopped supporting him". That is not what it means to stop supporting him. Not supporting him = stop watching his stream, stop watching anything he is a part of. Making threats and following through on them in an attempt to control someone's actions and force punishment on them when they don't comply... that is something else entirely. Something that I find morally reprehensible and extremely inappropriate. If I think you're an unpleasant person, I will stop having anything to do with you. I will not try to control you and I will not try to make your employer fire you. | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On May 05 2012 06:26 Chocobo wrote: Sigh... no, a gun was not literally involved. I was using an analogy, please google the term and learn how they are used. They informed the sponsors of Destiny's behavior as a threat, demanding that something be done about it or else financial damage or PR problems would take place. This was done as an attempt to control Destiny's language and actions during his stream, and to punish him if he does not change. They did not ask Destiny to stop making racial slurs (not that he'd listen). They made threats and then had him punished for not conforming to their demands. I do believe that this is a form of compelling someone to follow your moral code instead of their own, and I'm not sure how it can be seen otherwise. The question is, do you find that kind of behavior to be morally acceptable? Personally I find it to be considerably worse than occasionally spewing inappropriate language on the internet. So please tell me what the issue is here? I've asked you this a couple of times now. Razor wants Destiny to behave a certain way or they won't financially support his team. Should they be expected to give their money out without any stipulations or requirements? That's asking a little too much. What is the course of action here? Not let Razor or Quantic know that you don't like something? Just deal with it? | ||
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