Destiny and Quantic part ways - Page 108

Keep this civil, guys

WolfintheSheep

Canada14127 Posts

May 04 2012 21:25 GMT

#2141

I'd initially thought that this whole fiasco was about someone using a "taboo" word outside of the context in which it's taboo.

Now I've found out that Destiny actually used a racist word in the worst of context...insulting someone of the ethnicity the word was created to insult.

I don't really agree with the lynch mob mentality, but there's honestly nothing that can be said to defend Destiny.

Ponera

Canada596 Posts

May 04 2012 21:25 GMT

#2142

The people watching his stream knew there were pretty good odds of foul language. It's like renting a porn movie and then getting mad cause there is nudity.

Chocobo

United States1108 Posts

May 04 2012 21:26 GMT

#2143

On May 05 2012 06:02 Tehs Tehklz wrote:

Show nested quote +

So, someone pointed a gun at Destiny and said "say 'gook' one more time, motherfucker. I dare you!"

No, man. They informed him sponsors of his behavior - HIS behavior - and his sponsors apparently voiced their displeasure to his team.

If you think asking someone not use racial slurs is the same as forcibly compelling a person to abandon their morals in favor of yours, then I really do not know what to say to you.

Sigh... no, a gun was not literally involved. I was using an analogy, please google the term and learn how they are used.

They informed the sponsors of Destiny's behavior as a threat, demanding that something be done about it or else financial damage or PR problems would take place. This was done as an attempt to control Destiny's language and actions during his stream, and to punish him if he does not change.

They did not ask Destiny to stop making racial slurs (not that he'd listen). They made threats and then had him punished for not conforming to their demands.

I do believe that this is a form of compelling someone to follow your moral code instead of their own, and I'm not sure how it can be seen otherwise. The question is, do you find that kind of behavior to be morally acceptable? Personally I find it to be considerably worse than occasionally spewing inappropriate language on the internet.

Anomi

Sweden149 Posts

May 04 2012 21:26 GMT

#2144

On May 05 2012 06:23 adrenaLinG wrote:

Show nested quote +

This is not about the racist language in a private conversation on BNet, this is about a guy calling someone a gook on stream with thousands of viewers.

Have you ever tried making a youtube video where you call someone a nigger? How about hold a press conference to tell them you think they're a faggot?

Let me know how that works out for you.

+1 xD. Would love to ses those comments on those youtube videos ^^

United States813 Posts

May 04 2012 21:26 GMT

#2145

On May 05 2012 06:25 Ponera wrote:
The people watching his stream knew there were pretty good odds of foul language. It's like renting a porn movie and then getting mad cause there is nudity.

I think a better example would be a porn movie with profanity. (Being serious here lol)

BoZiffer

United States1841 Posts

May 04 2012 21:26 GMT

#2146

On May 05 2012 06:22 Dosey wrote:

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On May 05 2012 06:16 BoZiffer wrote:

On May 05 2012 06:12 Dosey wrote:

On May 05 2012 06:08 BoZiffer wrote:

On May 05 2012 05:30 Chocobo wrote:

On May 05 2012 05:18 BlueLanterna wrote:

On May 05 2012 05:15 Chocobo wrote:

On May 05 2012 05:09 BlueLanterna wrote:

On May 05 2012 05:08 StarStrider wrote:
Let's call this what it is people. It was a bunch of jelly butthurt basement dwellers from /vg/ who are trying to ruin him. For no other reason than they just want to watch his career burn. They get nothing but the satisfaction of control out of it, and they couldn't give a flying fuck about the community or esports or the backlash that going to sponsors could cause to anyone else in the scene.

Most people who believe in esports would not be stupid enough to ignore the major repurcussions that would be felt by his team and esports in general from trying to get sponsors pulled. These are trolls of the 4chan scene doing what they do best. Fucking people over with no regard for logic or consequences.

You're not saying it's a bad thing that a high profile streamer who used frequent ignorant hate speech is no longer on a professional team are you?

Why do you believe that no gamer who uses bad language should be allowed on a professional team?

Why are professional gamers on teams required to conform to your standards while you get to be the internet morality police? Why do you get to have control over others?

You're making a strawman argument as well. I never said gamers who use bad language shouldn't be allowed on a professional team, I said those who use hate speech, even in jest, shouldn't be supported. LOL "Why do you get to have control over others?" It has nothing to do with what I as an individual wants, it's what society deems as acceptable.

I completely agree that they ----SHOULDN'T BE SUPPORTED----. That is exactly what should have happened to Destiny. All of the people offended by his language should have stopped watching his games and stopped tuning in to his stream and stopped supporting him in any way.

But there is an enormous, gigantic difference between "shouldn't be supported" and "should be forced to conform to our standards or else we're going to fuck with him".

A large portion of society has deemed Destiny's actions to be unacceptable. Great. That's completely fine. But since when is it OK to get back at him by going to his employer and trying to get him fired? Since when is it ok to demand that he conform to your rules, or else you're going to take revenge against him?

That is called "trying to have control over others" and there's no way to deny that. I find it to be extremely inappropriate and completely uncalled for. The correct course of action is "if you don't like it, don't watch it" but that fact is being overlooked by many people.

Scenario question: Destiny is a representative of Team Quantic when he streams. He is, in effect "working" for them at that moment in time, right? Maybe he's not contractually, not sure. Lets say I go into a Best Buy and the salesman makes an insulting/racist/demeaning remark to me while he is actively employed. What actions do I have to seek resolution? I can talk to the individual - which may correct the problem on the spot. I can speak to his Supervisors. Now whether or not I demand to the Supervisor for him to be fired or not, or just counseled on the issue, is really up to the employer. I would say that complaining about something that isn't acceptable is fine action. That is all that an individual can actively do. Its up the employers to make the final call.

That scenario is totally irrelevant. Best Buy employee is selling a product and representing a company who just sells products. Destiny is essentially working in entertainment. His job is to obtain viewers and keep them entertained for as long as he is on air. Destiny is selling himself. If you don't like his sales pitch, you can go elsewhere, no?

Ok, then we'll try another... what about Kobe Bryant using derogatory terms towards homosexuals in the middle of a basketball game on national television. Kobe is selling entertainment, yet the NBA fined him 100,000 bills because of the insensitive remarks. No different. Final discipline up to the employer.

Another poor example. In this situation, Kobe holds all the cards and received a simple slap on the wrist. $100,000.00? That's a joke to him. If you want Destiny punished in this sense, it already happened. He was removed from the list of featured streams. That is a MAJOR fine in this community especially considering a vast majority of his income comes from such.

I think you missed what I'm trying to say. The final decision is up to the employer and no one is beyond repercussion for insensitive/hateful remarks regardless of stature. now the punitive strength of those repercussions may vary but nevertheless - if you say hateful things you have to beware responses against them. Thats my point. At the end of the day it isn't "everyone else's problem" - he needs to own his actions.

Northern_iight

Canada363 Posts

May 04 2012 21:26 GMT

#2147

On May 05 2012 06:20 m1rk3 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 04 2012 15:46 tribulator wrote:
As posted by Destiny on reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/t6i9v/destiny_and_quantic_parting_ways/

Grab your chairs, bros.
I feel really bad that a semi-irrelevant player who streams a lot constantly shits up these boards with drama, but then I saw this as the first rated post and I didn't feel as bad.
I've talked to Mark a lot over the past couple days, and we've come to the decision that it'd be best for both of our relationships for me to step aside from Quantic. I really appreciate the help/support from Quantic, and everyone on it, and everything they've done for me up to this point, but I feel like I've become more of a liability than an asset to them. I'm not about to release some hollow/empty apologies that mean nothing, and I can't even guarantee that I won't let any "bigot/racist/hateful/nazi/apocalyptic" speech cross my stream again.
There were a few options on the table when we were discussing things, but all of the options left Quantic in a really rough position. The fact of the matter is, me leaving Quantic or forfeiting any sponsorship really doesn't hurt my income, or affect me, much at all. But it would be devastating to certain parts of Quantic if things continued down this road (and still might be, though there's not much that can be done at this point).
I really appreciate everything they've done for me up to this point and I don't like to stay in some place where I feel like I'm hurting the environment around me too much, so I think it'd be easier for us to separate ties. I wish all of them the best, and hope to work with them in some ways in the future.
For those that hate, continue hating, I love every second of it. For those that like to e-mail sponsors, good luck with your campaign, though it's sad that the only players you're hurting are those that don't stream and those that don't generate revenue outside of team salaries. And for those that support me, I appreciate all of you guys, too.
And just for funs, if you think Razer's cleaning up the scene because they won't support teams who's members use racist/hateful/inflammatory speech, tell them they're doing a good job. Don't forget to mention all of the things some other players have said, like making fun of a kid who was sexually molested (ban number 11), or when teamliquid's own moderators use hate speech, because consistency is important!
http://www.razersupport.com/index.php?_m=tickets&_a=submit
On the other hand, if you think they're spineless assholes who want to police bad words in a game where you're nuking/murdering/destroying other people, or games where the main character has to endure torture or murder innocent civilians (MW2), that's fine, too.

http://www.razersupport.com/index.php?_m=tickets&_a=submit
Also, since TL has me unlisted for 30 days, I will shamelessly plug my stream: http://www.own3d.tv/Destiny <3

took destiny's advice and contacted razer :D

the end has begun. Might as well stop playing now since all the teams are going to lose their support

DarkEnergy

Netherlands542 Posts

May 04 2012 21:26 GMT

#2148

I'm a few pages behind. I don't see Razer, MSI, intel, or any other PC hardware/peripheral/esports supporters putting money into Comedy Central, who does support their intentionally offensive (but funny) content.

You are all getting off topic TRYING to find a reason to justify these acts. South Park != Starcraft/Esports not even by a long shot.

It is a simple analogy.
mierenneuker.

Pudge_172

United States1378 Posts

May 04 2012 21:27 GMT

#2149

What shocks me most is how many people are supportive of the use of blatantly offensive/racists speech. While one can legally use such speech, one must also face the consequences of using such speech.

I would hate to see the young people watching he stream go up to several fine African Americans and call them the n word.

People need to learn to be civil when dealing with each other. Hate speech is not funny. Hate speech is not entertaining.

Heights

United States9 Posts

May 04 2012 21:27 GMT

#2150

I really hate this for Destiny. I hate that teams and sponsors have to take measures like this because a sliver of the SC2 community feels a certain way. Obviously, they do these things from a business standpoint; teams don't want to lose sponsors and sponsors don't want to lose customers; and seeing as I'm no business mogul I'm not going to hate on Razer BUT if teams and sponsors would take a stand and refuse to conform to what a sliver of the SC2 community calls for, especially since it has nothing to do with the sponsor and an issue with their products, then headhunting incidents like this will cease to occur, and people will be forced to deal with things they don't like in a reasonable fashion.

As for the SC2 community:
Haven't we learned by now that Destiny is going to say what's on his mind, whether it offends or not? It's been said already, if you don't like Destiny, don't support him by not tuning in to watch his stream and if you are offended by Destiny then follow that advice, but don't think that your doing the community a favor by going headhunting. In fact, your only hurting the SC2 community by putting teams and sponsors and fans of those teams, sponsors, and players in a bad situation that only causes drama and more problems within the community. And I'm not going to say that Destiny has done wonders for the SC2 community, either, but he does stream quite often (even though a lot of it is LoL these days), he's put up some valuable SC2 tips on his website for lower-level players that want to improve, and he put together a thorough guide on how to stream, as well as appearing on State of the Game a few times as a pillar, and as a guest.

Stop giving sponsors and teams reasons to lose interest in the SC2 community and scene. Be happy that we have the great community that we do and the fact that it is filled with great teams, sponsors, and players, and if you dislike or disagree with a team's, sponsor's, or player's views/statements/actions, then don't support that team/sponsor/player by not cheering for them at events, not buying their products, and not watching their stream (and if you love a sponsor's products but dislike the team or player they sponsor, then buy the product anyway and be happy that your supporting a staple of the SC2 community). There is no need to target a player with such a malicious intent just because he expresses his views and opinions or uses language that you disagree with or are offended by when simply not watching his stream will suffice in keeping you from being subjected to those views, opinions, and language. I'm sure this has been said multiple times throughout the cornucopia of pages of responses, and I apologize for any recurring views and opinions.

Stubentiger

48 Posts

May 04 2012 21:27 GMT

#2151

Bit OT but I find it interesting that we talk about boycotting companies because of racial slurs while we buy from Companies that produce in China where they had to build nets to keep suicides low from people jumping down the roof ......

Destiny behaved unprofessional and not fit for representing a company, but he is not the devil ...

OTIX

Sweden491 Posts

May 04 2012 21:27 GMT

#2152

All is well that ends well.

TricksAre4Figs

United States125 Posts

May 04 2012 21:27 GMT

#2153

Destiny abuses other people as a form of exploitation to attract bottom feeders to his stream. It should come as no surprise that he got shut down after all this time. He is lucky to have made a cent off this game and now he went and killed the goose that laid the golden egg.

Firereaver

India1701 Posts

May 04 2012 21:28 GMT

#2154

On May 05 2012 06:09 BroOd wrote:
Reading some of these posts feels like having a thumb pressed into my eye. So many bizarre tirades about cultural implications, word meanings, destiny's intent, society's prudeness, and any other conceivable way you could imagine to spin this into something that misses the point.

Everything about this situation was summed up, for me, in that telling screen shot. Destiny was angry and frustrated that he lost to what he felt was inferior play, and as a punishment or retaliation for that, he had to make the other person feel that same anger and frustration. So, he reached for what he thought of first -- an Asian slur for someone with an Asian screen name -- in the hope that it would in some way hurt his opponent.

Now, Destiny may not hate Asian people, or even dislike them. But when you use loaded, historically racist words, soaked in years of shit, you can't hang them out on the line and expect everyone to be fine with the smell. Those words have hurt people in the past and continue to hurt people today. Pretending that using them casually (like when you want to anger an anonymous Asian person so you call him a "gook") somehow dilutes their power makes it seem like you're drawing your philosophy from a half-understood George Carlin bit, and not from the pragmatic, real world we all live in together.

This hallmark-card notion of "things can only hurt you if you let them" is ludicrous and everyone here has first hand evidence of that. We've all been irrationally mad before. We all have emotional buttons that someone, somewhere, could push and hurt us. Some of those buttons are personal and hidden deep inside, but some of them are worn on our sleeves, or even deeper, in our skin. It's clear that some people in this thread view that very real hurt as just collateral damage in their self-righteous war on the windmills of political correctness.

Destiny isn't tearing down any walls here. We're not advancing towards a new, more enlightened stance on race issues by integrating institutionalized racist terms into our every day vocabulary. We're just constantly reminding each other of how shitty we used to be, and how shitty we can still be today.

Wow BrOod! What a post. Gotta say I dont give a shit bout anyside in this non-issue, but BroOd just made soem points for life... Will use in future ty...

StarStrider

United States689 Posts

May 04 2012 21:29 GMT

#2155

On May 05 2012 06:18 epidGoaty wrote:
I'm a few pages behind. I don't see Razer, MSI, intel, or any other PC hardware/peripheral/esports supporters putting money into Comedy Central, who does support their intentionally offensive (but funny) content.

You are all getting off topic TRYING to find a reason to justify these acts. South Park != Starcraft/Esports not even by a long shot.

It's an analogy. No one said they are the same thing or that it fits perfectly. It's just supposed to make the discussion clearer by applying an already established or more readily understood scenario.

I'm confused, what does the genre of the sponsors have to do with it? Whether it's McDonalds or Razer or Budweiser or Intel. Are you saying that these tech sponsors of esports have a higher level of political correctness than Comedy Central's sponsors and esports should respect that and deliver content that abides by their higher moral standards?

Tehs Tehklz

United States330 Posts

May 04 2012 21:29 GMT

#2156

On May 05 2012 06:26 Chocobo wrote:

Show nested quote +

Except these two situations are nothing alike. Your analogy was about equal to: parents are to grounded as Stalin is to gulag. That is type of analogy that you are putting forth and it is nonsense.

All they did was use their own freedom of speech to express that they would not support a company that supports the use of racial slurs. That is not even remotely close to forcing anyone to do anything.

Crushinator

Netherlands2138 Posts

May 04 2012 21:29 GMT

#2157

On May 05 2012 06:25 WolfintheSheep wrote:
I'd initially thought that this whole fiasco was about someone using a "taboo" word outside of the context in which it's taboo.

Now I've found out that Destiny actually used a racist word in the worst of context...insulting someone of the ethnicity the word was created to insult.

I don't really agree with the lynch mob mentality, but there's honestly nothing that can be said to defend Destiny.

Exactly what I thought initially.

Would have thought most people would have been able to understand the significance of the context in this case. But apparently the fight against political correctness has gone so far, that actual racism is now not only totally fine, but a show of integrity.

VPCursed

1044 Posts

May 04 2012 21:30 GMT

#2158

so guys, who shall we lynch next?

Chocobo

United States1108 Posts

May 04 2012 21:30 GMT

#2159

On May 05 2012 06:10 Tehs Tehklz wrote:

Show nested quote +

They did not demand that he change. They simply informed his sponsors that they could not, in good conscience, give their money to a company that supports the use of racial slurs in this manner. That is it. They "stopped supporting him".

That is not what it means to stop supporting him. Not supporting him = stop watching his stream, stop watching anything he is a part of.

Making threats and following through on them in an attempt to control someone's actions and force punishment on them when they don't comply... that is something else entirely. Something that I find morally reprehensible and extremely inappropriate.

If I think you're an unpleasant person, I will stop having anything to do with you. I will not try to control you and I will not try to make your employer fire you.

Mordiford

4448 Posts

May 04 2012 21:31 GMT

#2160

On May 05 2012 06:26 Chocobo wrote:

Show nested quote +

So please tell me what the issue is here? I've asked you this a couple of times now.

Razor wants Destiny to behave a certain way or they won't financially support his team. Should they be expected to give their money out without any stipulations or requirements? That's asking a little too much.

What is the course of action here? Not let Razor or Quantic know that you don't like something? Just deal with it?

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