EPTTvP Lategame comment from Blizzard - Page 22
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Mayd
Finland251 Posts
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A-p-p-l-e-s
Canada314 Posts
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xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
On May 04 2012 13:48 Icekommander wrote: I don't see the issue. The races are different, at a fight happens at any given point at time during a game between two equally skilled players, one will win more often than the other. The races actually can't be equally balanced at every point in the game due to how unit interactions work. You might as well complain that it isn't fair or right that in a TvT a meching Terran has an advantage in the late game over a bio terran. Your bio ball didn't do enough harassment, or you didn't take over the map properly. If you feel that Mech is better or suits your style better you should switch - same thing with Terran and Protoss. The races are different, and it is something you have to live with. this . pvt was always hard for last 2 years for all protoss around the world , suddenly 1 gsl season protoss start wining and all terrans say game is imba , are you kidding me ? then how 2 years we always lost ? | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
On May 04 2012 21:21 mcc wrote: There is no economic cheese, it is called being greedy. Timings are also not cheese. And the rest is your opinions. Why should the game be back and forth equally, did you notice it is not a mirror matchup ? Matchup being dull has nothing to do with the supposedly too strong protoss lategame. It being dull has nothing to do with balance which is what Blizzard was talking about. Making terran making 2 early CCs, sometimes an hidden one, you call it greed, I call it economic cheese, its basically the same thing, agreed timings aren't cheese, just trying to make the point that terran either tries to cut corners if possible or just tries to do damage. And it being dull has everything to do with balance. Notice how TvT is one of the most well liked of match ups. Yes it is a mirror match up, but it has a very wide array of possible strategies, one base play, or one base into two base play, macro games, different viable compositions, bio, bio-mech or mech, tons of different ways to harass, strong positional elements and very cool late game. Balance has everything to do with TvP also being dull, I'll say it again for the last time. If one race is forced into attacking or greed in the early and mid game to eek out an advantage and one race is forced in the defensive for the same duration so it can almost certainly win in the late game, then the game becomes dull and predictable. It becomes a question of "what cheese will the terran use, or what corner will he cut?", while for the protoss it becomes "how well can he deal with his greed/cheese to be able to survive relatively intact till the late game?". If you can't see the benefit and beauty of both players having near equal choices in both attack and defense in all stages of the game then you are hopeless. This has everything to do with balance, because balance, at any time of the game, dictates of people will play, and weather that play is fun or not. | ||
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Aeroplaneoverthesea
United Kingdom1977 Posts
On May 04 2012 21:38 Mayd wrote: Once all the protoss start mastering the Parting style I think pvt win ratio is going to be near 100 %. What a ridiculous prediction. | ||
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pOnarreT
155 Posts
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
On May 04 2012 21:42 xsnac wrote: this . pvt was always hard for last 2 years for all protoss around the world , suddenly 1 gsl season protoss start wining and all terrans say game is imba , are you kidding me ? then how 2 years we always lost ? TvP hasn't always had the same balance for 2 years. Both races where changed over the course of time, and lastly the maps where made to favor protoss more. Its rather easy to explain and understand. | ||
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scypio
Poland2127 Posts
On May 04 2012 21:35 tar wrote: never said that, just stating that this is a very effective way of applying early pressure to P even though FFs are available(which in this thread seems to be a major issue: defensive FFs ), without risking to lose too much. Also, at the 2 medvac timing at the ramp u have to do the following: stimm run up the ramp, wait for FFs then a) bad FFs: go do a lot of damage b) elevate ur units out of there at this point in time u do not have to stutter step since u r attacking, so focuse ur APM on something that is important at that particular time. Ok, that seems reasonable. But I would assume good forcefields so... you lift your bio, run away and do no damege apart from eating up some sentry energy. And this is what toss wants you to do. Hopefully the toss still has stalkers in the main, cause if you can't spot and kill the obs you might loose medivacs during that little ninja poke too. So I don't think it is all that much different from the "please dear toss turtle badly in the midgame" approach. | ||
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M7Jagger
Sweden237 Posts
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Bodzilla
Australia472 Posts
but people wont agree to that, they'll just bitch and moan about the small percentage of play we're they're behind, rather then admit theres areas in the game where they have a significant advantage. | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On May 04 2012 21:38 Mayd wrote: Once all the protoss start mastering the Parting style I think pvt win ratio is going to be near 100 %. Yes because all protoss are capable of playing as well as Parting. And, for your information Parting doesn't do exactly the same build every game either. | ||
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tar
Germany991 Posts
On May 04 2012 21:45 scypio wrote: Ok, that seems reasonable. But I would assume good forcefields so... you lift your bio, run away and do no damege apart from eating up some sentry energy. And this is what toss wants you to do. Hopefully the toss still has stalkers in the main, cause if you can't spot and kill the obs you might loose medivacs during that little ninja poke too. So I don't think it is all that much different from the "please dear toss turtle badly in the midgame" approach. as stated above: I just wanted to give an example on how to improve and what has actually begun to change. In diamond I almost exclusively see ppl just leaving their units behind FFs to die while retreating with the rest of the army when good FFs were placed. Sure u can approach it that way but then u r not playinbg efficiently: as grubby puts it: "Every unit counts" | ||
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league
Peru58 Posts
On May 04 2012 21:45 pOnarreT wrote: Ugh... all this Terran whining is disgusting... why not just have Terrans what they want so they would shut up? Im all for the challenge anyway, even if I keep losing, i'll figure something out or practice what I need to do to win, as the pros do, and not have an attitude of "whine about it even though i haven't achieved the highest possible level of play play meaning there are things that I could improve which might make me win instead of blaming the other races" I concur | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia918 Posts
There has been plenty pro games in BW on 2 player maps, where terran takes 4 bases, protoss takes 5(with 5th faster than terrans 4th), and is unable to attack anywhere(the last free expansion on the map is too close to terran line, and there is too much turrets/vessels to try any carrier or arbiter play). Inefficient trading also not a solution, as there's nowhere to expand further. I mean some games on Match Point and HBR. At least in SC2 your initial army is guaranteed to kill a decent amount of stuff after first engagement + sac'ing workers for more supply is much more viable thanks to OCs. That, and ghosts are actually really good, even post-nerf. The mid-game advantage that terran gets doesn't have to come in form of damage dealt...it can be an economy lead. Even if the opponent grabs his 3rd with the least units possible, while playing defensive - you still can abuse it by being greedy. Match gets harder if the map allows for a very easy 3rd base; but that's not often the case + there are map features that favor terran, too. | ||
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blackberry_
114 Posts
Speaks poorly of game design :/ But that's okay. I mean, I'm going to keep playing SC2... Time for early game shenanigans... The age of refined Terran queso is upon us! | ||
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pOnarreT
155 Posts
It's not ridiculous, it's idiotic | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On May 04 2012 21:17 Ccx55 wrote: Well, here we go again with another stupid opinion from Blizzard based off of nothing. They're saying that they intentionally want the terran to concentrate on mid-game and protoss on late-game. So what if the protoss wants to push mid-game? Or what if the terran wants to go mass expand? They can go f*ck themselves, then? Is that your opinion on the matter, Blizzard? Sorry for my language, I'm just really frustrated about how Blizzard is steering this game. I say this as a Zerg player, too. And your opinion is based on something ? And what if terrans want to build broodlords, stupid Blizzard preventing them from that ? | ||
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cosimorondo
United States78 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
What if we made it so charge wasn't automatic and needed to be activated. And if no units in range or blocked, it would still go off and be on cool down. Make it so Protoss need to charge with the front line zealots. And if he presses charge on whole army, they all charge but only the front ones hit marines and all the others would need to wait for cool down before charging again? Would make mech slightly more viable as well... | ||
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Alexstrasas
302 Posts
On May 04 2012 21:39 A-p-p-l-e-s wrote: Protoss does require a lot of micro too. What a lot of people here are saying is that terran has to micro and protoss just A attacks but in reality both races need to micro to win. You have to storm, move collusus back zealots to the front etc. You have to storm, move collusus back and zealots to the front? You serious bro? | ||
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