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Think twice before hitting post; this thread will be moderated for idiocy and useless posts. Consider this a warning. |
On May 02 2012 03:11 Skullflower wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 03:05 KristianJS wrote:On May 02 2012 03:03 Stiluz wrote:On May 02 2012 02:52 KristianJS wrote:On May 02 2012 02:47 TheChostoProject wrote:
This is totally outrageous, If we want our community to grow we need to start thinking before talking/posting. We need to take special care on the selection of words we use when we want to insult/offend someone. I mean, we want them to feel bad but not too bad.
Here's a list of words we all should eliminate because some people's feelings might get hurt beyond our original intention of hurting them.
faggot - offensive to the gay community
nigger - offensive to the black community
gook - offensive to asians(?)
spic - offensive to hispanics
retarded - offensive to mentally challenged
rape - offensive to rape victims
snipe - offensive to war veterans
nuke - offensive to descendants of hiroshima survivors
grammar nazi - offensive to descendants of concentration camp survivors
murdered - offensive to people who've experienced death in family
cancer on the community - offensive to people who've suffered from cancer
Also, don't do drugs and eat vegetables, ok? The fact that you are comparing the offensiveness of the word "murdered" to people who've experienced murder in the family, with words like "faggot" and "nigger" is completely absurd. There were not millions of people enslaved and systematically abused on the basis that someone in their family had been murdered. People don't get beaten to death on account of them being a Hiroshima survivor. They do for "being a faggot". Actually, I've lived in Japan, and study Japan as part of my studies. Nuclear survivors from Hiroshima and Nagasaki are systematically discriminated in Japan, and talking about nukes as something casually, is absolutely not taken lightly in regards to people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. His points can be said to be valid, especially about nukes. I don't agree with the motion of "being offended" by specific words myself. Oh, really? That's enlightening, thanks. The main point however is that words like "faggot" and "nigger" and "gook" are derogatory BY DEFINITION. Words like "nuke" or "murder" are neutral without context. I don't even think young people in the US see faggot as offensive anymore. It's just become a general way to insult someone in the past few years. In high school everything was 'gay' and everyone needed to stop acting like 'faggots'
Just because everybody you knew didn't see it as offensive didn't mean gay people didn't. Just because a bunch of high schoolers said it doesn't make it inoffensive.
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On May 02 2012 03:11 MrTortoise wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 03:09 pt wrote:On May 02 2012 03:07 GreenFaction wrote:
Personally I'm disgusted that not only are people upset at people being upset with destiny, but some people are actually happy about destiny's behavior. People who comment that characters like Destiny will always exist are right, but the conclusion to be drawn from that fact is not to leave them alone; the conclusion that needs to be drawn from that is that the rest of us need to stand up against these people.
To all those who think to themselves or comment publicly that it is not a big deal, you are wrong. It is a big deal. It is a much bigger deal than losing to an all in. It takes courage by the OP to post this, and we should be thankful the OP had the courage. I don't understand the courage part lol That is plain depressing.
No. I think he just got "courage" confused with "reckless"
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Here's what I don't get. Apparently it's ok for Destiny to say whatever he wants, but if anyone else wants to express their outrage at Destiny's behavior then somehow they are not allowed to do that? I mean it kind of sounds like a lot of people are getting offended at the fact that some people are getting offended at what Destiny is saying. Yikes, even writing that makes my head hurt.
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On May 02 2012 03:10 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 03:08 SnowSC2 wrote:
If you really have to contact anyone because you were "offended" while voluntarily watching a stream, don't let it be the sponsors. Seriously, anyone who wants this community to grow yet would complain to a SPONSOR over something like this is a hypocrite. This is literally one of the worst ways to go about this. Its just stupid. The hypocrisy is wanting SC2 to be mainstream while promoting and encouraging behaviour that could never be acceptable in mainstream society.
Dave Chapelle, the animators of "The Boondocks", and Louis. C.K. are laughing at your stilted, myopic view of what the "mainstream" consists of. I guess offensive players like Destiny have but one option left, and to put it in the words of the famous Mike Tyson, "I'll fuck you 'till you love me, faggot."
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On May 02 2012 03:10 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 03:08 SnowSC2 wrote:
If you really have to contact anyone because you were "offended" while voluntarily watching a stream, don't let it be the sponsors. Seriously, anyone who wants this community to grow yet would complain to a SPONSOR over something like this is a hypocrite. This is literally one of the worst ways to go about this. Its just stupid. The hypocrisy is wanting SC2 to be mainstream while promoting and encouraging behaviour that could never be acceptable in mainstream society.
Now this is a good post.
Instead its all about money, its all about bleeding this game and community dry as fast as we can while its still hot, shh dont tell the sponsors anything, just hide the weirdoes, racists, homophobes and dont...tell....anyone.
Quite frankly i dont like that, i rather the community were built around good people that will also have mainstream appeal if we ever get there. Not being built around shady crap, 4chan rejects and memes like "u mad bro?" from yesteryear.
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boxer would not approve.
User was warned for this post
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On May 02 2012 03:08 Trealador wrote:
pointing out the stupidity of the people demanding they are still upset over a few words being spoken on an online game, while those words said in music, movies, and other forms of media are totally fine....
This has only made me more of a Destiny fan, and less of a TL fan. I will always love Starcraft, and that is all that matters.
Imagine a professional athlete saying the n word or g**k on live TV during a game. The reaction would be even more
volatile than what we've seen on teamliquid and I have no doubt there would be reprecussions (probably in the form of a fine). As someone of mixed origin I hear racist things all the time, even in the liberal and tolerant society I live in. Sometimes you're walking down an expensive neighbourhood and you hear people whisper "what is this, Chinatown?" as you're walking by. Or its not unusual to hear people make derogatory remarks about the ethnic suburb I live in, while I'm at work. These are just facts of life and I in no way want to deprive these people of their ability to express their true opinions. However the fact is these words/sentiments DO sting. And for myself I'll be less inclined to watch Destiny's content because of what he said and his unapologetic attitude afterward.
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I 100% do not. The point of my post is that we probably should censor groups like those.
This point of veiw is unlogical, hypocritical, and generally bad for all of humanity. This means that sensorship because one dissagrees is OK, and just because it was expressed by someone that sounds reasonable, doesn't mean it's anythingthing but drivel.
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On May 02 2012 03:05 KristianJS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 03:03 Stiluz wrote:On May 02 2012 02:52 KristianJS wrote:On May 02 2012 02:47 TheChostoProject wrote:
This is totally outrageous, If we want our community to grow we need to start thinking before talking/posting. We need to take special care on the selection of words we use when we want to insult/offend someone. I mean, we want them to feel bad but not too bad.
Here's a list of words we all should eliminate because some people's feelings might get hurt beyond our original intention of hurting them.
faggot - offensive to the gay community
nigger - offensive to the black community
gook - offensive to asians(?)
spic - offensive to hispanics
retarded - offensive to mentally challenged
rape - offensive to rape victims
snipe - offensive to war veterans
nuke - offensive to descendants of hiroshima survivors
grammar nazi - offensive to descendants of concentration camp survivors
murdered - offensive to people who've experienced death in family
cancer on the community - offensive to people who've suffered from cancer
Also, don't do drugs and eat vegetables, ok? The fact that you are comparing the offensiveness of the word "murdered" to people who've experienced murder in the family, with words like "faggot" and "nigger" is completely absurd. There were not millions of people enslaved and systematically abused on the basis that someone in their family had been murdered. People don't get beaten to death on account of them being a Hiroshima survivor. They do for "being a faggot". Actually, I've lived in Japan, and study Japan as part of my studies. Nuclear survivors from Hiroshima and Nagasaki are systematically discriminated in Japan, and talking about nukes as something casually, is absolutely not taken lightly in regards to people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. His points can be said to be valid, especially about nukes. I don't agree with the motion of "being offended" by specific words myself. Oh, really? That's enlightening, thanks. The main point however is that words like "faggot" and "nigger" and "gook" are derogatory BY DEFINITION. Words like "nuke" or "murder" are neutral without context.
How can you even fucking say this when words like "faggot" and "gay" existed far before they were used to reference homosexuality?
Do you even read the dribble you type here?
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Destiny is a person. He has the right to say whatever he wants. You're allowed to be racist.
It's disgusting that people think it's okay to try to force others to act a certain way. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
If Destiny's words hurt you, don't watch his stream. He is a person playing a fucking video game. I hope he continues offending you people, because I want you to continue to be upset. You deserve not to feel good, and I'm glad Destiny exists to cause you this pain.
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On May 02 2012 03:10 Primadog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 03:08 Swords wrote:
If you're Razer and you get these emails, do you:
a) drop your lucrative sponsorship of multiple esports teams, including Quantic who currently has an extremely popular foreigner who has broken into the Korean scene?
or
b) request Quantic drop/suspend/reprimand Destiny?
Razer is not going to damage itself over this, that'd be bad business. Contacting them is not going to kill esports. Like people have said though, this sort of behavior being picked up on by a major publication or something of that ilk will actually do terrible terrible damage. If I am Razer, I'd be much closer to (A) than (B). No reason to hang around this scene if I have to dealt with this shit on weekly basis.
I have no idea on the numbers, but if you make a lot of money off of these ads and exposure, I doubt they'd drop the scene because of one person. I do see your point though.
The bigger issue to me is new sponsors aren't going to be interested in the scene if they research it and see this stuff going on. If people want the scene to grow this behavior can't be tolerated whether people find it "ethical" or not.
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I'm going to email his sponsors to say that I buy their products because they sponsor Destiny. Destiny is very intelligent, his stream is both educational and entertaining, and I know my money goes to support a man who is doing his best to support his son in what I can only imagine is a difficult situation.
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On May 02 2012 03:14 goswser wrote:
What I LOVE is all the new accounts which have been created today and the only posts they have are in this thread. Coincidentally, all of them are also the people arguing vehemently against Destiny and emailing the sponsors. Could it be possible that one guy is posting in this thread with multiple accounts? Hmmm......
Dude, that's not actually true. There've been very few posts by new accounts, and most of them are supporting Destiny.
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Also, am I the only one disgusted that most people are technically telling a lie when emailing Razer? Their emails contain phrases indicating that they will refuse to buy another Razer product unless they do something regarding this shitstorm. This to me seems like just escalating their intentions, as I very much doubt most of the people who emailed them will actually remember this by next week, and that the next time they browse the Razer website to buy a product they will make a decision based on this crap.
What a joke...
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On May 02 2012 03:11 BigProstate wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 03:07 GreenFaction wrote:
Personally I'm disgusted that not only are people upset at people being upset with destiny, but some people are actually happy about destiny's behavior. People who comment that characters like Destiny will always exist are right, but the conclusion to be drawn from that fact is not to leave them alone; the conclusion that needs to be drawn from that is that the rest of us need to stand up against these people.
To all those who think to themselves or comment publicly that it is not a big deal, you are wrong. It is a big deal. It is a much bigger deal than losing to an all in. It takes courage by the OP to post this, and we should be thankful the OP had the courage. The OP typing in korean Like so many people do because they idolize the koreans when he speaks english in order to attempt to bait a racist response WHAT? Typing in Korean baits a racist response? So if I type 'goed gespeeld' I am asking to be called a muslimhater because of mr Wilders? What kind of sick 'logic' is that?! out of a player after cheesing him Cheese is a part of the game. Players (ESPECCIALLY PROS) should be able to deal with it. Destiny L2p is the proper response in this situationand probably bm'ing earlier YOu base this statement on what? On you loving to lick Destiny's lest shoe?! Don't make untrue claims based on nothing. on doesn't take courage It actually does and it says a lot more about the OP than it does destiny, True too. It sayd about the OP that he is a decent person, it says about Destiny that he is a dumb figure, but we already knew that. Agreed on this line. words have context and if you seriously believe that they were meant as anything other than a vent you really are stupid. WOrds have context and you make claims of words you have no proof of, 3 lines before you say words have context? SERIOUSLY?!As i said before, if that offends you turn on the offensive language filter, if it's off it is assumed that you are mature enough to handle offensive language. lol
Silly, silly person.
User was warned for this post
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If you don't like it then just ignore it.
Destiny is already insignificant in the SC2 community without his attitude. He even said it himself, he doesn't want to be a community figure so just let him get on with it and he'll fade into the background for everyone apart from his fans.
BTW Koreans aren't emotionless, they're just from a different culture and if you don't understand Korean or meet them you won't know them.
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On May 02 2012 03:10 Primadog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 03:08 Swords wrote:
If you're Razer and you get these emails, do you:
a) drop your lucrative sponsorship of multiple esports teams, including Quantic who currently has an extremely popular foreigner who has broken into the Korean scene?
or
b) request Quantic drop/suspend/reprimand Destiny?
Razer is not going to damage itself over this, that'd be bad business. Contacting them is not going to kill esports. Like people have said though, this sort of behavior being picked up on by a major publication or something of that ilk will actually do terrible terrible damage. If I am Razer, I'd be much closer to (A) than (B). No reason to hang around this scene if I have to dealt with this shit on weekly basis.
They make gaming peripherals for gods sake.
If they stop sponsoring all these teams, then they just lost shitloads of potential consumers.
Razer isn't stupid. "hurr notifying sponsors like razer will kill esports"
This would only happen if the sponsoring you're spamming sponsors that's not even relevant to gaming
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On May 02 2012 03:12 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 02:49 ThomasHobbes wrote:On May 02 2012 02:43 Klondikebar wrote:On May 02 2012 02:42 Gunter wrote:On May 02 2012 02:40 Pulimuli wrote:On May 02 2012 02:36 latan wrote:
How dare Destiny do something with his free will and free speech that doesn't harm anyone and might offend someone that's not even me? you have no idea what freedom of speech means do you? It does not mean you can go around calling people faggots and niggers left and right yes it does No it doesn't. You're not allowed to use speech to marginalize others. Freedom of Speech is to protect well formed arguments and ideas, it has no obligation to give a platform to nonsensical hatred and bigotry. I thought you were going to make a sensible point, then I was disappointed. Freedom of Speech actually does protect hate speech, it just doesn't protect individuals from facing social repercussion for what they say. If nobody wants to employ someone who uses racial slurs, that man just won't be employed. It absolutely does NOT protect hate speech. In fact hate speech is a very clearly delineated exemption to that protection. I feel like there are a lot of people who didn't actually watch that video that JoJo linked. 1. It will give you a good 5 minute break from the thread which everyone probably needs. 2. It is very well thought out.
"In the United States, hate speech is legal (except for obscenity, defamation, incitement to riot, and fighting words)."
No, it is protected, as is the ability of neo-Nazi groups to parade in Jewish-concentrated neighborhoods. Welcome to America.
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On May 02 2012 03:06 Ameisenmann wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 03:05 Slike wrote:On May 02 2012 02:49 FairForever wrote:On May 02 2012 02:45 AnalThermometer wrote:
For a start, those emailing the sponsors should take no blame. The logic that they're causing E-sports harm by informing the sponsors about the actions of someone under their banner is ass-backwards.
One day someone with influence may decide to take it beyond the scope of these forums, and then it's done for. A journalist with an influential blog on a site like Forbes might decide to one day make an entry about one of these situations which keep cropping up, because these threads certainly are popular. Would we go and post in the comments asking him to take it down because it might hurt the scene, perhaps? No, that would be retarded. Keeping it quiet and sweeping it under the rug to "protect E-sports" is not an option. Prevention is the only sensible option.
This is a warning to not take an insular view on this type of situation - I've seen posts in places not connected to SC2 who will email sponsors at the drop of a hat and have done in the past. The argument that it's just the internets will not wash with the general public, they'll see what's going on here and kill your credibility before giving you the time of day. You'll be tarred with the same brush which was used on the fighting game community recently.
You should be pointing your fingers at Destiny and other high profile players for constantly giving them reasons to do it. Destiny doesn't say it, people have no reason to send mail. You should also point fingers at the teams choosing these types of players on purpose - I would be far more suprised to see a member of Team Liquid taking part in these sort of antics that I would members of other teams because I know TL use their discretion. This has to be one of the best posts. People complain and want SC2 to gain legitimacy, even cheering on MLG and CBSi partnership, but do you think it will ever last if this is what happens? This is some pretty good insight. Im sure both MLG and CBS really care about what Destiny does IN HIS OWN STREAM , while playing from INSIDE HIS HOUSE. INSIDE the internet 
Indeed, did you actually say that to enhance my point? I mean what does MLG and CBS have to do with anything. Its not like destiny shows up in tournaments and starts calling people racial slurs. He does it in his own stream at his house for people who actually enjoy (i think?) watching him do it. So yeah , I guess they might not invite him because of his background but its not like CBS will be like "Oh look how destiny acts , lets drop this SC2 plan" ... That doesnt even make sense.
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EPT
