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Think twice before hitting post; this thread will be moderated for idiocy and useless posts. Consider this a warning. |
On May 02 2012 03:01 Leafren wrote:
sigh @ the white knights circle jerk
If you think Destiny swears/offends/whatever too much, don't watch his stream. It is that simple. If Destiny thinks it's OK to use words like nigger, gook, etc, on his stream that's his damn right. However distasteful you or I find it. Freedom of speech.
Personally I don't see why you would routinely use words like nigger or faggot, I'm one of those types that does go out of his way a bit to avoid offending people.
However, I'm not entirely convinced Destiny's behaviour is bad for esports, I think it has little to no effect on it at all. If we want esports to grow (soon to be the most cliché sentence), by definition it will include a wider variety of characters and viewpoints. Does any of the world's sports stop growing because players misbehave (in your view that is)?
You're right, for esports to grow, we need to make sure we allow racism to be expressed freely by professionals. After all, we wouldn;t want to alienate racist viewers.
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On May 02 2012 02:57 Derrida wrote:
I have emailed and twitted Quantic & Razer. I'm hoping TL takes action on this. We don't need jesters throwing around racial slurs.
And the amount of discourse justificatory posts are sickening in this thread. "You can say 'gook' without being racist." Well, good for you. However, people are still offended, and there will likely, or should be, consequences.
Thanks for letting us know. What would this world be without brave souls like yours.
Ps: I'm offended by your terrible oppinion and you should feel bad.
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On May 02 2012 02:45 AnalThermometer wrote:
For a start, those emailing the sponsors should take no blame. The logic that they're causing E-sports harm by informing the sponsors about the actions of someone under their banner is ass-backwards.
One day someone with influence may decide to take it beyond the scope of these forums, and then it's done for. A journalist with an influential blog on a site like Forbes might decide to one day make an entry about one of these situations which keep cropping up, because these threads certainly are popular. Would we go and post in the comments asking him to take it down because it might hurt the scene, perhaps? No, that would be retarded. Keeping it quiet and sweeping it under the rug to "protect E-sports" is not an option. Prevention is the only sensible option.
This is a warning to not take an insular view on this type of situation - I've seen posts in places not connected to SC2 who will email sponsors at the drop of a hat and have done in the past. The argument that it's just the internets will not wash with the general public, they'll see what's going on here and kill your credibility before giving you the time of day. You'll be tarred with the same brush which was used on the fighting game community recently.
You should be pointing your fingers at Destiny and other high profile players for constantly giving them reasons to do it. Destiny doesn't say it, people have no reason to send mail. You should also point fingers at the teams choosing these types of players on purpose - I would be far more suprised to see a member of Team Liquid taking part in these sort of antics that I would members of other teams because I know TL use their discretion.
No. Everyone is responsible for their own actions, those that involve sponsors are the ones hurting Esports, they were not forced to make any action, they chose it completely of their own accord. They aren't merely informing sponsors about he actions, they are specifically stating that they will not support Razer because of Destiny and I can guarantee you that the vast majority to not genuinely wish to stop supporting Razer or their products because Destiny called one person on the internet a "gook" they just know that saying such is the most likely to get results.
You can try to tell us who to point fingers at all we want, but I call out you and anyone advocating emailing sponsors out directly as being the one's who are damaging Esports and I wish you would leave the community immediately if you can't stand the language that is used on the streams. This is a community based around watching, playing and discussing Starcraft and other games not hunting down people who use racist language and making sure that they are held accountable for their actions.
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On May 02 2012 03:02 Thraxx wrote:
some ppl need to go out and get laid. getting worked up over some bm some idiot says in a video game fuck me what is the world coming too
Kinda harsh, but this. Its just mind-boggling to me that this could actually become such a big deal.
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On May 02 2012 03:02 Jell wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 03:00 Toastie wrote:
So, actually, I am against mailing sponsors,
but Destiny is acting like such a child with this. See the twitter message, see the replies joking and trying to make fun of everybody with arguments. Look at all his minions screaming at everybody.
I'm sorry ESports/Quantic. I am messaging Razer so Destiny gets hurt in the only place he really cares about - his income. You aren't hurting Destiny, you're hurting every other player on Quantic and their team. Destiny major income is his stream and his youtube. But if you're fine with hurting a team and a big e-sports sponsor go for it!
Not really, if Quantic finds they're going to get hurt they're going to drop Destiny in order to save a major sponsor.
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Build a community around the actions and activities of children, and this stuff is bound to happen. For references, see: XBox Live.
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You people are all so stupid. Stop giving him attention if you don't like him.
User was warned for this post
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On May 02 2012 02:48 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 02:46 farvacola wrote:On May 02 2012 02:43 Klondikebar wrote:On May 02 2012 02:42 Gunter wrote:On May 02 2012 02:40 Pulimuli wrote:On May 02 2012 02:36 latan wrote:
How dare Destiny do something with his free will and free speech that doesn't harm anyone and might offend someone that's not even me? you have no idea what freedom of speech means do you? It does not mean you can go around calling people faggots and niggers left and right yes it does No it doesn't. You're not allowed to use speech to marginalize others. Freedom of Speech is to protect well formed arguments and ideas, it has no obligation to give a platform to nonsensical hatred and bigotry. If you consider the platforms of the Aryan Brotherhood, the National Alliance, or other assorted tolerated hate groups as consisting of well formed arguments and ideas, well that's on you man. I 100% do not. The point of my post is that we probably should censor groups like those.
This is where reasonable people should leave the thread. People like ^^ who believe in censorship of groups of people is ok simply because they disagree with their message. Holy shit. Free speech means, among many things, that you CAN go around calling people whatever you want!!! Society will respond accordingly based on the content of the speech.
Sorry for contributing more than was necessary to this thread and keeping it alive. Hope it closes soon :/ This community is too self-destructive
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On May 02 2012 02:49 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 02:45 AnalThermometer wrote:
For a start, those emailing the sponsors should take no blame. The logic that they're causing E-sports harm by informing the sponsors about the actions of someone under their banner is ass-backwards.
One day someone with influence may decide to take it beyond the scope of these forums, and then it's done for. A journalist with an influential blog on a site like Forbes might decide to one day make an entry about one of these situations which keep cropping up, because these threads certainly are popular. Would we go and post in the comments asking him to take it down because it might hurt the scene, perhaps? No, that would be retarded. Keeping it quiet and sweeping it under the rug to "protect E-sports" is not an option. Prevention is the only sensible option.
This is a warning to not take an insular view on this type of situation - I've seen posts in places not connected to SC2 who will email sponsors at the drop of a hat and have done in the past. The argument that it's just the internets will not wash with the general public, they'll see what's going on here and kill your credibility before giving you the time of day. You'll be tarred with the same brush which was used on the fighting game community recently.
You should be pointing your fingers at Destiny and other high profile players for constantly giving them reasons to do it. Destiny doesn't say it, people have no reason to send mail. You should also point fingers at the teams choosing these types of players on purpose - I would be far more suprised to see a member of Team Liquid taking part in these sort of antics that I would members of other teams because I know TL use their discretion. This has to be one of the best posts. People complain and want SC2 to gain legitimacy, even cheering on MLG and CBSi partnership, but do you think it will ever last if this is what happens?
This is some pretty good insight. Im sure both MLG and CBS really care about what Destiny does IN HIS OWN STREAM , while playing from INSIDE HIS HOUSE.
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On May 02 2012 03:02 Jell wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 03:00 Toastie wrote:
So, actually, I am against mailing sponsors,
but Destiny is acting like such a child with this. See the twitter message, see the replies joking and trying to make fun of everybody with arguments. Look at all his minions screaming at everybody.
I'm sorry ESports/Quantic. I am messaging Razer so Destiny gets hurt in the only place he really cares about - his income. You aren't hurting Destiny, you're hurting every other player on Quantic and their team. Destiny major income is his stream and his youtube. But if you're fine with hurting a team and a big e-sports sponsor go for it!
I won't buy Destiny is on team Quantic for the label only. He gets some kind of benefit from it, and if Quantic get's contacted by Razer because they receive complaints talking about players they sponsor being racist, Quantic will be forced to take actions.
Hah.
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On May 02 2012 03:03 Stiluz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 02:52 KristianJS wrote:On May 02 2012 02:47 TheChostoProject wrote:
This is totally outrageous, If we want our community to grow we need to start thinking before talking/posting. We need to take special care on the selection of words we use when we want to insult/offend someone. I mean, we want them to feel bad but not too bad.
Here's a list of words we all should eliminate because some people's feelings might get hurt beyond our original intention of hurting them.
faggot - offensive to the gay community
nigger - offensive to the black community
gook - offensive to asians(?)
spic - offensive to hispanics
retarded - offensive to mentally challenged
rape - offensive to rape victims
snipe - offensive to war veterans
nuke - offensive to descendants of hiroshima survivors
grammar nazi - offensive to descendants of concentration camp survivors
murdered - offensive to people who've experienced death in family
cancer on the community - offensive to people who've suffered from cancer
Also, don't do drugs and eat vegetables, ok? The fact that you are comparing the offensiveness of the word "murdered" to people who've experienced murder in the family, with words like "faggot" and "nigger" is completely absurd. There were not millions of people enslaved and systematically abused on the basis that someone in their family had been murdered. People don't get beaten to death on account of them being a Hiroshima survivor. They do for "being a faggot". Actually, I've lived in Japan, and study Japan as part of my studies. Nuclear survivors from Hiroshima and Nagasaki are systematically discriminated in Japan, and talking about nukes as something casually, is absolutely not taken lightly in regards to people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. His points can be said to be valid, especially about nukes. I don't agree with the motion of "being offended" by specific words myself.
Oh, really? That's enlightening, thanks.
The main point however is that words like "faggot" and "nigger" and "gook" are derogatory BY DEFINITION. Words like "nuke" or "murder" are neutral without context.
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I don't understand why this is causing so much shit storm.
I mean, Destiny is not the only one that use racial slur. I bet any from of racial slur/insult are being used every second somewhere on the internet as we speak. I'm not condoning what he said, but it's his stream, so he can do whatever the fuck he wants. You don't like it?? then DON"T watch his stream. Part of the reason he gets so many viewers is because people find his trolling/BM entertaining.
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On May 02 2012 03:00 Toastie wrote:
So, actually, I am against mailing sponsors,
but Destiny is acting like such a child with this. See the twitter message, see the replies joking and trying to make fun of everybody with arguments. Look at all his minions screaming at everybody.
I'm sorry ESports/Quantic. I am messaging Razer so Destiny gets hurt in the only place he really cares about - his income.
You are against something, but you will do it anyway? WTF?
That is like saying 'Hey, I'm against misogynistic behaviour to women but since I don't like that woman at work, I'ma grab her ass next time I see her just to annoy her. Hey, I just want to see her get hurt in the place she really cares about.......'
Uh oh, I'm posting them analogy things that nobody ever gets again. INB4 'It's nothing like that' with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy
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On May 02 2012 03:00 Toastie wrote:
So, actually, I am against mailing sponsors,
but Destiny is acting like such a child with this. See the twitter message, see the replies joking and trying to make fun of everybody with arguments. Look at all his minions screaming at everybody.
I'm sorry ESports/Quantic. I am messaging Razer so Destiny gets hurt in the only place he really cares about - his income.
He's doing it to prompt a reaction, to "troll" those who are outraged, if you will. He wants to make you angry, he wants to be enraged. You win by chuckling at the amusing picture of spiderman and ignoring the rest. You lose by getting all worked up, and it also makes you more susceptible to further trolling.
When Razer pulls its support of Destiny, it will also pull its support from guys like Naniwa and Sase. What did they do wrong? Why do you threaten the incomes of these two guys who have played no role in this, yet will likely suffer just as much as Destiny?
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On May 02 2012 03:04 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 03:02 Jell wrote:On May 02 2012 03:00 Toastie wrote:
So, actually, I am against mailing sponsors,
but Destiny is acting like such a child with this. See the twitter message, see the replies joking and trying to make fun of everybody with arguments. Look at all his minions screaming at everybody.
I'm sorry ESports/Quantic. I am messaging Razer so Destiny gets hurt in the only place he really cares about - his income. You aren't hurting Destiny, you're hurting every other player on Quantic and their team. Destiny major income is his stream and his youtube. But if you're fine with hurting a team and a big e-sports sponsor go for it! Not really, if Quantic finds they're going to get hurt they're going to drop Destiny in order to save a major sponsor.
So if Quantic drops Destiny you're fine with everything? I thought the discussion was about racial slurs, but I guess you just want to hurt someone you don't like.
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blows my mind that so many people think a having a sponsor is more important than removing racism and bigotry from our scene
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On May 02 2012 03:00 Toastie wrote:
So, actually, I am against mailing sponsors,
but Destiny is acting like such a child with this. See the twitter message, see the replies joking and trying to make fun of everybody with arguments. Look at all his minions screaming at everybody.
I'm sorry ESports/Quantic. I am messaging Razer so Destiny gets hurt in the only place he really cares about - his income.
don't ever fall off that high horse. its a long way down
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On May 02 2012 03:05 Slike wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 02:49 FairForever wrote:On May 02 2012 02:45 AnalThermometer wrote:
For a start, those emailing the sponsors should take no blame. The logic that they're causing E-sports harm by informing the sponsors about the actions of someone under their banner is ass-backwards.
One day someone with influence may decide to take it beyond the scope of these forums, and then it's done for. A journalist with an influential blog on a site like Forbes might decide to one day make an entry about one of these situations which keep cropping up, because these threads certainly are popular. Would we go and post in the comments asking him to take it down because it might hurt the scene, perhaps? No, that would be retarded. Keeping it quiet and sweeping it under the rug to "protect E-sports" is not an option. Prevention is the only sensible option.
This is a warning to not take an insular view on this type of situation - I've seen posts in places not connected to SC2 who will email sponsors at the drop of a hat and have done in the past. The argument that it's just the internets will not wash with the general public, they'll see what's going on here and kill your credibility before giving you the time of day. You'll be tarred with the same brush which was used on the fighting game community recently.
You should be pointing your fingers at Destiny and other high profile players for constantly giving them reasons to do it. Destiny doesn't say it, people have no reason to send mail. You should also point fingers at the teams choosing these types of players on purpose - I would be far more suprised to see a member of Team Liquid taking part in these sort of antics that I would members of other teams because I know TL use their discretion. This has to be one of the best posts. People complain and want SC2 to gain legitimacy, even cheering on MLG and CBSi partnership, but do you think it will ever last if this is what happens? This is some pretty good insight. Im sure both MLG and CBS really care about what Destiny does IN HIS OWN STREAM , while playing from INSIDE HIS HOUSE.
INSIDE the internet 
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On May 02 2012 03:00 valaki wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 02:57 zefreak wrote:On May 02 2012 02:56 valaki wrote:On May 02 2012 02:52 goswser wrote:
All the people writing to razer are the most hypocritical self-righteous people I've ever seen. I would wager a lot that the majority of these people don't own a single razer product, but they're sending emails saying things like "I've purchased every razer product ever and now will never purchase one ever again". To top it off these people are saying they will tell all their friends to not purchase any razer products. I would also wager not a single one of these people will tell any of their friends to not purchase razer products.
Pretty much everyone complaining is lying and hypocritical, and taking this opportunity to enjoy and abuse power they normally don't have. Just like thousands did with orb. Or you don't want equal treatment? Or crucifying one guy is enough, we should let this slip? Two wrongs don't make a right.. As I said, I don't care about either of the so called "offenses". But either Destiny will recieve the same treatment or the community / TL says that enough is enough, let's not make this a trend. But then orb was the guinea pig.
There is no 'community', there is just a bunch of people with different opinions that all happen to enjoy starcraft. Just because a bunch of idiots took it upon themselves to get Orb fired doesn't mean 'the community' had spoken on the issue. Most people who aren't drama queens were too busy ignoring that mess of a thread to 'cast their vote' so to speak.
They were wrong about Orb and they will be wrong about Destiny if they continue to do this nonsense.
Some people need to pretend they have a purpose no matter how minor or misguided.
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Personally I'm disgusted that not only are people upset at people being upset with destiny, but some people are actually happy about destiny's behavior. People who comment that characters like Destiny will always exist are right, but the conclusion to be drawn from that fact is not to leave them alone; the conclusion that needs to be drawn from that is that the rest of us need to stand up against these people.
To all those who think to themselves or comment publicly that it is not a big deal, you are wrong. It is a big deal. It is a much bigger deal than losing to an all in. It takes courage by the OP to post this, and we should be thankful the OP had the courage.
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EPT
