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On April 21 2012 20:09 Dattish wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 19:58 bgx wrote:On April 21 2012 19:42 Dattish wrote:On April 21 2012 17:54 Kiett wrote:On April 21 2012 17:15 LightAngels wrote:On April 21 2012 16:48 NguN wrote:On April 21 2012 16:36 Cassel_Castle wrote:On April 21 2012 14:40 YMCApylons wrote:
In SC2, Protoss play needs a big kick in the pants away from 2-base timing pushes...Bisu/Stork, please show the way.
Don't switch to terran, Bisu! Your insane APM will serve you well, but I think you'll love warp gates more. Bisu and Stork will make Huk, MC, and Hero look like chobos with warp prisms. You mean Stork with his 200ish apm..? Bisu I can understand, but Stork was never known for his harassment His godly well-known Shuttle-Reaver play => Colossus-Warp Prisms ? Colossus-Warp Prism is utterly useless. I watched a clip of HerO doing a colossus drop on a mineral line once, and though it was relatively impressive and I admired him for trying to inject some interesting harass in the otherwise dull game, it took a really long time (every time he dropped it, it killed like, 1 or 2 SCVs at a time), and wasn't particularly effective. Nothing like a reaver drop which has the potential to wipe out 10 workers in one explosion, or a BW storm drop that completely decimates a person's economy in 3 seconds. Storm drops in SC2, though certainly possible, are also kind of underwhelming. The radius is tiny, the damage is lower. Doesn't it take like, 4+ storms to cover a mineral line and the likely escape route? Yes, that's why the most common prism harass is chargelot drops+ warpins. tbh, following SC2 since 2010, the only players that has properly utilized Protoss ability to harass has been MC, White-ra, HerO and Sase. compare it to MMA vs zerg harass, protoss harass options are laughable, now see Bisu vs zerg harass highlights from bw it resembles multi prong sc2 terran harassment rather than anything SC2 protoss can do. How many top SC2 terrans properly utilized harass? Almost every, because its part of the gameplay, while SC2 protoss is some bastard child of harassment. I don't wanna stray from the topic too much but here's my thoughts on the topic: I think it's a side effect of how toss used to play before about 2 months ago where you never could split your army. Nowadays it seems like the pros are able to trade alot more efficiently because of cheaper upgrades, thus possibly opening up more oppurtunities for harass, I'm pretty interested in how BW players could utilize this, because they have higher EAPM than most SC2 pros.
quoting Gosi
The thing that will suck with a switch is to see those players staying/switching to Protoss in sc2. Just the thought seeing Bisu play sc2 Protoss makes me cringe so bad. All that multitasking skill and possibility wasted because the race design punish you for multitasking because your race suck ass if it's not in a deathball and you have minimal harass potential...
At least Terran and Zerg rewards good mechanics and can be a challenge to handle even with MBS because you have to hit injects and spread creep, do multipronged attacks, drop, split and kite etc during the fast phased gameplay than can occur. With Protoss you almost don't do anything. You make probes, pylons, press W every 40 seconds or whatever the warpgate cooldown is and then press where you want your units to spawn with your mouse, produce from your robo and upgrade when you have the tech. It's sad when you watch PvZ or PvT and look at the production tab, it's almost always empty for Protoss.
In the end if everyone's play will rise up even god among gods like Bisu will look boring when playing as protoss. Who cares if for now 10 times better player would play Protoss and get the last 5% of the race effectiveness if Terran and Zerg gives you almost infinite potential?
Protoss harassment is linear, its mostly zealot warpins, compare it to Reaver (and scarab mechanics) and templar drops. And the idea of MACROING from gateways. Warp mechanic is boring, it made core unit weak so protoss depends on large amount (death ball). Replacing mobile/micro intensive units like Reaver with static powerful units that are vulnerable without protection (collosus). I can go on, but those flaws are even acknowledged by blizzard...
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Yeah, he'll be wasting a lot of skill if he sticks to Protoss.
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On April 21 2012 20:42 Jongl0 wrote:
Yeah, he'll be wasting a lot of skill if he sticks to Protoss.
Bullshit!
You can do so fucking much with his skills and toss.
And with hots units it will be even more fitting
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On April 21 2012 20:18 bgx wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 20:09 Dattish wrote:On April 21 2012 19:58 bgx wrote:On April 21 2012 19:42 Dattish wrote:On April 21 2012 17:54 Kiett wrote:On April 21 2012 17:15 LightAngels wrote:On April 21 2012 16:48 NguN wrote:On April 21 2012 16:36 Cassel_Castle wrote:On April 21 2012 14:40 YMCApylons wrote:
In SC2, Protoss play needs a big kick in the pants away from 2-base timing pushes...Bisu/Stork, please show the way.
Don't switch to terran, Bisu! Your insane APM will serve you well, but I think you'll love warp gates more. Bisu and Stork will make Huk, MC, and Hero look like chobos with warp prisms. You mean Stork with his 200ish apm..? Bisu I can understand, but Stork was never known for his harassment His godly well-known Shuttle-Reaver play => Colossus-Warp Prisms ? Colossus-Warp Prism is utterly useless. I watched a clip of HerO doing a colossus drop on a mineral line once, and though it was relatively impressive and I admired him for trying to inject some interesting harass in the otherwise dull game, it took a really long time (every time he dropped it, it killed like, 1 or 2 SCVs at a time), and wasn't particularly effective. Nothing like a reaver drop which has the potential to wipe out 10 workers in one explosion, or a BW storm drop that completely decimates a person's economy in 3 seconds. Storm drops in SC2, though certainly possible, are also kind of underwhelming. The radius is tiny, the damage is lower. Doesn't it take like, 4+ storms to cover a mineral line and the likely escape route? Yes, that's why the most common prism harass is chargelot drops+ warpins. tbh, following SC2 since 2010, the only players that has properly utilized Protoss ability to harass has been MC, White-ra, HerO and Sase. compare it to MMA vs zerg harass, protoss harass options are laughable, now see Bisu vs zerg harass highlights from bw it resembles multi prong sc2 terran harassment rather than anything SC2 protoss can do. How many top SC2 terrans properly utilized harass? Almost every, because its part of the gameplay, while SC2 protoss is some bastard child of harassment. I don't wanna stray from the topic too much but here's my thoughts on the topic: I think it's a side effect of how toss used to play before about 2 months ago where you never could split your army. Nowadays it seems like the pros are able to trade alot more efficiently because of cheaper upgrades, thus possibly opening up more oppurtunities for harass, I'm pretty interested in how BW players could utilize this, because they have higher EAPM than most SC2 pros. quoting Gosi Show nested quote +The thing that will suck with a switch is to see those players staying/switching to Protoss in sc2. Just the thought seeing Bisu play sc2 Protoss makes me cringe so bad. All that multitasking skill and possibility wasted because the race design punish you for multitasking because your race suck ass if it's not in a deathball and you have minimal harass potential...
At least Terran and Zerg rewards good mechanics and can be a challenge to handle even with MBS because you have to hit injects and spread creep, do multipronged attacks, drop, split and kite etc during the fast phased gameplay than can occur. With Protoss you almost don't do anything. You make probes, pylons, press W every 40 seconds or whatever the warpgate cooldown is and then press where you want your units to spawn with your mouse, produce from your robo and upgrade when you have the tech. It's sad when you watch PvZ or PvT and look at the production tab, it's almost always empty for Protoss. In the end if everyone's play will rise up even god among gods like Bisu will look boring when playing as protoss. Who cares if for now 10 times better player would play Protoss and get the last 5% of the race effectiveness if Terran and Zerg gives you almost infinite potential? Protoss harassment is linear, its mostly zealot warpins, compare it to Reaver (and scarab mechanics) and templar drops. And the idea of MACROING from gateways. Warp mechanic is boring, it made core unit weak so protoss depends on large amount (death ball). Replacing mobile/micro intensive units like Reaver with static powerful units that are vulnerable without protection (collosus). I can go on, but those flaws are even acknowledged by blizzard...
Watch someone like hero play. The potential there, not enough people take advantage of it. I'd hope people like Bisu would finally HAVE the EPM to use the stuff hero does, and take it to a new level and show that protoss at high levels CAN be awesome if you have the chops.
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On April 21 2012 10:25 GGQ wrote:
Noooo Bisu you must be Protoss! My mind can't even figure out what I would do if Bisu played a different race. It'd just be wrong.
It's worth noting that in SC2 there's an odd inversion of the TvP matchup. BW Protoss has an army that was (at its core) more mobile and consists largely of T1 units supported by a smaller number of high tech units, and BW Terran has an army of less mobile splash-heavy high tech units with a throwaway mineral dump that is surprisingly effective. Sc2 Protoss has an army that builds up to a deathball of less mobile splash-heavy high tech units with a throwaway mineral dump that is surprisingly effective, and Sc2 Terran has an army that is (at its core) more mobile and consists largely of T1 units supported by a smaller number of high tech units.
I think Bisu would make a fine Terran player in Sc2.
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I tried to avoid the news to keep my hopes up that BW would live as we know it at least until the end of the season, but it seems my hopes are way too naive.
Reading these topics it seems the switch isn't a possibility anymore and it is a certainty. A closer and closer certainty 
I've been around TL since 2006 (even tho I only registered in 2010) and I've followed pro BW ever since and the ending of it saddens me a lot
I watch SC2 aswell but...losing BW isn't going to be compensated by watching more SC2, I treat them as 2 different games.
It will be very strange watching these players play another game and possibly another race. The terran Bisu isn't a sight I'm eager to see to be honest.
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God damn it. Bisu was my hope for the Protoss race.
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On April 21 2012 10:43 Kiett wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 10:41 Harem wrote:On April 21 2012 10:25 GGQ wrote:
Noooo Bisu you must be Protoss! My mind can't even figure out what I would do if Bisu played a different race. It'd just be wrong. You know that Bisu was originally Terran in BW right? (so was Best) So was Stork. But they all found their true (and far superior) calling. Once you go Aiur, you can't go back.
Kiett getting it right, this guy stands for protoss, if they have to switch they should atleast stay true to themselves.
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Haha, I said that so long time ago! If Bisu were to play SC2 he better switch to Terran! It would fit him so good. He would be a much stronger Terran I feel!
This interview makes it sound like BW progamers think the races in SC:BW and SC2 play out the same way. I think there is a big difference in how different races work in SC2 compared to BW.
Protoss and Terran are like opposite in PvT from BW to SC2. Terran even play with bio in that match, that alone is a complete change from BW.
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I'm curious how SC2 balance will look like after zerg expansion, it couldn't be worse than today... or could it?
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Bisu can't play Terran T__T
For Aiur!
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On April 21 2012 20:55 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 10:25 GGQ wrote:
Noooo Bisu you must be Protoss! My mind can't even figure out what I would do if Bisu played a different race. It'd just be wrong. It's worth noting that in SC2 there's an odd inversion of the TvP matchup. BW Protoss has an army that was (at its core) more mobile and consists largely of T1 units supported by a smaller number of high tech units, and BW Terran has an army of less mobile splash-heavy high tech units with a throwaway mineral dump that is surprisingly effective. Sc2 Protoss has an army that builds up to a deathball of less mobile splash-heavy high tech units with a throwaway mineral dump that is surprisingly effective, and Sc2 Terran has an army that is (at its core) more mobile and consists largely of T1 units supported by a smaller number of high tech units. I think Bisu would make a fine Terran player in Sc2.
I think if the colossus' weakness was slower movement speed, or somehow otherwise impaired mobility instead of being vulnerable to anti-air, the matchup would look even more similar to BW TvP, and in my opinion be even more exciting.
It would even cause terran to stop making vikings every single game, and carrier switches could once again be a good idea in some situations
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Clarification:
BraQ is MK
Bisu isn't real Bisu, forgot who, but it was just some current top sc2 player, nothing special.
Obviously don't know all the IlIlIlIlIlIlI accounts, but they include MK, byun, most slayers guys, drg, losira.
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Bisu. With a race where he can actually use up his godly multitasking skills to do stuff other than storm drop and a-move zealots/DTs/corsairs like a bitch.
Did I just make you shit your pants or what
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Please Bisu stay Protoss ! For your fans ! <3
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Blizz might nerf T again 'IF' Bisu and other BW T players can make T imba-looking kkkkk
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gotta say the thought of bisu playing terran excites me.
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Bisu probably could FF all the map chokes simultaneously.
If he wants to win all he needs is to exploit that bullshit spell that removes 100% of oponnents micro skill out of the equation.
In BW we have imbalanced spells, but it is actually balanced around that imbalance so the imbalance balanced BW, be it imba spells or race-favorited maps.
But in SC2 there is no such imbalanced balance, SC2 is such a frankstein.
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EPT
