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Steeze
United States24 Posts
T-2 P-7 Z-15 I'm mid-high master and get matched against top 25+ master players and they are usually zerg. Is there something I'm missing? Why does the majority of players at this mmr play zerg? I have no problem with the game balance or anything like that, I'm just freaking tired of playing mostly zerg. QQ Anyone else find themselves in this situation when they play? | ||
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HaXeR
Czech Republic189 Posts
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CCupcakeDyran
United States53 Posts
I wish I knew why everyone is suddenly playing z. | ||
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wester25
Canada63 Posts
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10356 Posts
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CCupcakeDyran
United States53 Posts
On April 02 2012 15:21 KimJongChill wrote: It's disgusting, out of my last 65 games 40 of them have been zvz.... One can only play so many of those before serious mental problems begin to develop... | ||
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Misanthrope
United States924 Posts
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riff
United States113 Posts
On April 02 2012 15:22 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: it can also be because of your maps... if all zergs ban the same maps that are bad for them, and t and p ban the maps that are bad for them vs z, you'll end up with a lot of zvz Not true. Map selection happens after the matching. | ||
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drop271
New Zealand286 Posts
On April 02 2012 15:24 riff wrote: Not true. Map selection happens after the matching. Are you sure about that? I have seen posts disagreeing, and my experience on the ladder suggests you are wrong too. A couple of seasons ago I got sick of TvT, so I downvoted Lost Temple and Delta Quadrant and barely saw any after that | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Ramuh
Germany238 Posts
While it is highly improbable that you get that many ZvZ, it is not impossible. http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/region/all/all/all Sc2Rank Stats seem to indicate that Z is underrepresented. | ||
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Piledriver
United States1697 Posts
Edit: Of course, you can cheese with toss/terran and be pretty succesful, but if you are a macro guy, then zerg is your best bet. | ||
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sc2CruSha
United States105 Posts
mid master is actually a lot more spread out o_O | ||
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latan
740 Posts
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SwizzY
United States1549 Posts
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Chocobo
United States1108 Posts
ZvZ feels like a chore I have to endure to get to play the other matchups. | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
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Chocobo
United States1108 Posts
On April 02 2012 15:28 Ramuh wrote: The fact that you only get ZvZ does not necessarily mean theres more z than others. Your Games simply are simply not a big enough sample size to make any accurate observations on the actual situation. Depends on the sample size. Sure, a dozen games doesn't prove anything... but after 50-60 games your stats start to become statistically meaningful, and after hundreds they're likely to be pretty accurate. You don't need to sample ten thousand games to derive some accurate information. | ||
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1sz2sz3sz
Andorra173 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Angra
United States2652 Posts
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Wasteweiser
Canada522 Posts
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
It was fun some time ago when I could pick zerg on ladder and play ZvT because I love that matchup from both sides but now I can't do that because there is like no Terrans. If you could only pick the race you want to play vs or have a non-retarded custom game mode... >( | ||
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slane04
Canada23 Posts
On April 02 2012 15:28 Ramuh wrote: The fact that you only get ZvZ does not necessarily mean theres more z than others. Your Games simply are simply not a big enough sample size to make any accurate observations on the actual situation. While it is highly improbable that you get that many ZvZ, it is not impossible. http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/region/all/all/all Sc2Rank Stats seem to indicate that Z is underrepresented. I would also quote sc2ranks, but its stats seem to have blown up. But a more useful stat would be to look at the global distribution in masters, where I believe there are more zergs. | ||
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riff
United States113 Posts
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
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aFganFlyTrap
Australia212 Posts
On April 02 2012 15:26 drop271 wrote: Are you sure about that? I have seen posts disagreeing, and my experience on the ladder suggests you are wrong too. A couple of seasons ago I got sick of TvT, so I downvoted Lost Temple and Delta Quadrant and barely saw any after that sounds like season one... | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
On April 02 2012 15:44 Gosi wrote: Because the playstyle Stephano have popularized in zvp and zvt is really simple to execute for plat to master league players while it's a super strong style of play. So if you are not a progamer it doesn't matter what race you play with and because the "ladder metagame" (lool) looks just like how Stephano is playing zvt and zvp people switch to zerg because it's hard to play against + all the people that goes with the flower of the month to collect wins. And add that zerg is like the most popular race already in sc2, plus that Stephano is like the foreigner hope so I can imagine even more people playing zerg just because he does. It was fun some time ago when I could pick zerg on ladder and play ZvT because I love that matchup from both sides but now I can't do that because there is like no Terrans. If you could only pick the race you want to play vs or have a non-retarded custom game mode... >( I think the expression is 'flavor of the month' :/ | ||
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OkStyX
Canada1199 Posts
 but thats just | ||
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Hetz
196 Posts
I played ladder 3 games today and they were all on Shattered Temple with me being blue and the opponent red...for Christ sake stop these ridiculous anecdotes. | ||
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Zurles
United Kingdom1659 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10356 Posts
On April 02 2012 15:24 riff wrote: Not true. Map selection happens after the matching. I guess neither of us can prove this but 1/3 of my games are on Shakuras Plateau and 95% of them are TvTs. When I unban Shattered temple, i don't get that often but when I do, it's also ~95% TvT. When I have SP unbanned I notice I play quite a lot of TvTs. Though ofc this is anecdotal and doesn't prove anything. | ||
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
On April 02 2012 15:57 KimJongChill wrote: I think the expression is 'flavor of the month' :/ LOL yep, but my mom was talking about flowers while I wrote that so it ended up like it did... xD | ||
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Eviscerador
Spain286 Posts
On April 02 2012 16:07 Zurles wrote: I get 75% zvz at low master, I barely play anymore purely because of that, the matchup is horrible and boring. Seriously, how can you say ZvZ is a boring match?? Since it is the only one match where you can play aggresive since the first min with Z, it is the most thriving mu at the moment. In zvp and zvt, most of the time game begins at min 8 or 9... | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
On April 02 2012 16:02 ShakAttaK wrote: I love Zerg :D ZvZ is fun but thats just that's just you :s | ||
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NeonFox
2373 Posts
Nah I love it too, I'm in heaven right now with so much ZvZ. I get a ton of ZvPs though as well and hate that matchup. I propose you take my ZvPs and I'll relieve you from your ZvZs  | ||
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Terranist
United States2496 Posts
On April 02 2012 15:40 1sz2sz3sz wrote: Its cause zerg is the easiest race to play you are officially the bravest man on this forum. | ||
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Mouzone
3937 Posts
On April 02 2012 15:30 latan wrote: because stephano I'd say this is a big part yes. His style makes people want to play zerg, especially the overwhelming builds with roaches etc. that look so easy. | ||
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Thrombozyt
Germany1269 Posts
On April 02 2012 16:11 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: I guess neither of us can prove this but 1/3 of my games are on Shakuras Plateau and 95% of them are TvTs. When I unban Shattered temple, i don't get that often but when I do, it's also ~95% TvT. When I have SP unbanned I notice I play quite a lot of TvTs. Though ofc this is anecdotal and doesn't prove anything. I'm pretty sure that it's first matching then map selection. That's why the number of bans is in a way that even if none of your bans match you have one match left (7 maps, 3 bans each). If a map was selected first, it would lead to a reduced opponent pool resulting longer wait times and worse match-quality. | ||
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sNeit
Germany24 Posts
AND DEFEND ALL SHIT | ||
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david0925
212 Posts
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Elem
Sweden4717 Posts
Edit: For myself (being mid-masters zerg) I at least was not influenced by any of these players tho, and not cos Zerg is "easy" at that level (the reason it is is cos Terrans can't split their stuff for shit and never drops you and that Protoss try sentry-less expands). Think some people are being a bit too fast to judge. But like the rest of the Zergs here I'll go ahead and agree with "fuck ZvZ"! But that's cos I hate it when it ends in roach v roach play. :/ | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
Over the past 4 seasons I have played 123 ZvZs, 68 ZvTs, and 90 ZvPs. On another account I have similar ratios of matchups, even though as Terran I veto different maps. However on Korea it is very different, as you can see here: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/fea/1/all | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10356 Posts
On April 02 2012 16:24 Thrombozyt wrote: I'm pretty sure that it's first matching then map selection. That's why the number of bans is in a way that even if none of your bans match you have one match left (7 maps, 3 bans each). If a map was selected first, it would lead to a reduced opponent pool resulting longer wait times and worse match-quality. Oh wow, thanks for this. This makes much more sense actually. Darn I thought I was being successful in banning maps to help me face more Zergs, I guess it was just coincidence then xD. I was considering banning SP cus TvT there is so simple and i was getting tired of playing 60 min split map TvT games where I have 50 Orbitals and he's hasn't even taken his side yet and won't gg. But now I won't since I'll still play those Terrans but just on a different map. | ||
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xHPx_sc2
Sweden46 Posts
On April 02 2012 15:22 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: it can also be because of your maps... if all zergs ban the same maps that are bad for them, and t and p ban the maps that are bad for them vs z, you'll end up with a lot of zvz I doubt it. I'm 1300 EU (basically top10 master) and I've only veto'd metalopolis. I still get zerg ~50% of my games, this season aswell as last season. I'd say I get about ~50% Zerg 30% Protoss 20% Terran and I am like really sick of PvZ at the moment with the way you're forced to 2base all-in or try to pray that the Zerg doesn't spread his blords for the Vortex. It's just such a boring matchup, Zerg is boring to play against. Sometimes I wish I could pick what race I wanted to play against so that I didn't have to play vs Zerg... | ||
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Denzil
United Kingdom4193 Posts
On April 02 2012 15:23 CCupcakeDyran wrote: One can only play so many of those before serious mental problems begin to develop... Think I'm ready gone then, I love ZvZ Elem when was. Nerchio god of Europe? I know he's like, best ZvZ outside Korea or something | ||
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
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Elem
Sweden4717 Posts
On April 02 2012 16:36 Denzil wrote: From April/May until September-ish? The exact time is a bit blurry but it was definitively around that time. He won like every damn cup you'd see in the listings. He's still really good obv' but back then the only real argument against him was that he didn't win any LANs. The only rivals he really had were NaNiwa and ThorZaIN (due to MLG Dallas and TSL3 wins respectively.) but even them didn't really win that much apart from their key tournaments which gave them their "stardom".Think I'm ready gone then, I love ZvZ Elem when was. Nerchio god of Europe? I know he's like, best ZvZ outside Korea or something | ||
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FluoCrazyKenny
France90 Posts
Season 1 - Gold (not traced) Season 2 - 147 Matches (Platinum) P : 37 (25%) T : 45 (31%) Z : 62 (42%) R : 3 (2%) Season 3 - 120 Matches (Platinum) P : 41 (34%) T : 27 (23%) Z : 48 (40%) R : 4 (3%) Season 4 - (Diamond) Not played Saison 5 - 32 Matches (Diamond) may be not revelant because of the few matches played P : 11 (34%) T : 6 (19%) Z : 14 (44%) R : 1 (3%) Season 6 - 113 Matches (Platinum) P : 26 (24%) T : 33 (29%) Z : 44 (38%) R : 10 (9%) Map banned is not a issue because i have never ban any map (only scrap station in season 1). I don't know what to think of it but it's seems to be a general trend in any ladder from plat to master. From my point of view, we are lacking Terran in plat and diamond. | ||
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xHPx_sc2
Sweden46 Posts
On April 02 2012 16:41 graNite wrote: stop quoting sc2ranks, there is clearly something wrong with the racestats: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/eu/1/all That doesn't tell much tho. Zerg players in general may be more active etc.. There's many things that factors into this. | ||
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Drmooose
United States390 Posts
(obv all just random guessing on my part) | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
The most ZvZs I played in a row was 9. However, I have got 10 PvPs in a row, which isn't as bad because it isn't as coin-flippy, and after that I don't think I played a PvP for a week. I still get a disproportionate amount of PvZs, which wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't constantly BMed, which seems to be a Zerg exclusive trait at high diamond (Protoss OP, cheesy all-inner, l2p, etc). Apparently anything less than turtling to infestor/broodlord vs. mothership with no aggression from either side is considered cheese, and blink stalkers are literally invincible against any Zerg composition. It's odd, because I never had issues with stalkers when I played Zerg at a higher level than I play Protoss. | ||
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Sierrahotel
Korea (South)19 Posts
I've been experiencing this too in NA Masters where about 70% of my games are vZ. | ||
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Broda
Denmark17 Posts
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
It's pretty certain it's not DRG and Stephano. First of all, the increase of Z and drop in T occurred between May and July 2011 (you can check by taking the patch times from liquipedia and compare them to the race percentages per patch), which is way too early for the Stephano effect (He won his first major tournaments late autumn of 2011). DRG is one of the fastest players with no single style, he won't have much effect on casuals. Same for Idra. Sc2ranks has problems for some pages of statistics (for example, the current patch, 1.4.2 seems bugged out as there are 1/3 of the people in the leagues compared to the previous patches. This is not plausible.) but most of the data should be fine, and we shouldn't discount in entirely, we just need to separate good data from the useless parts. Edit: And the prevalence of Z actually seems to reduce in Masters level, although it's still surging, but the Z population seems to be growing fastest around plat. | ||
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Hairy
United Kingdom1169 Posts
On April 02 2012 16:13 Gosi wrote: LOL yep, but my mom was talking about flowers while I wrote that so it ended up like it did... xD The best I've heard is that someone was being used as an "escape goat". Classic. | ||
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Arisen
United States2382 Posts
there are people who stick to one race, but a lot of people waffle. Back in beta and early release, it was a huge deal when you hit a zerg on the ladder and people laughed their asses off when 2 poor zergs got matched up in a zvz in tournaments (I think iNc can be credited with saying "(ZvZ) [is] considered genocide at that level"). The new styles of play are pretty easy compared to old zerg styles, so people play zerg because they've wanted to and now it seems an easier transition, or they want free wins. Thats it. | ||
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Elem
Sweden4717 Posts
On April 02 2012 17:01 Ghanburighan wrote: DRG is one of the fastest players with no single style, he won't have much effect on casuals. Same for Idra. Ermh...no? o_o These are the last players you'd say that about. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
Time to learn terran i suppose... sadly i don't think this Z surge is going to go anywhere when HotS comes out either. | ||
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illumn
New Zealand437 Posts
Anecdote of course, but around 50% of my games are against Zergs (by contrast 20% vs Terran). | ||
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nitdkim
1264 Posts
-im joking | ||
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Aterons_toss
Romania1275 Posts
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Hypemeup
Sweden2783 Posts
Not that I am complaining, TvZ is fun to play. Another reason is that no non-korean terran is really that strong right now, so more people have foreign idols with zerg? Last non-korean terran to win a lan tournament was Naama at Dreamhack 2010? And the last big even won by a foreign terran was Thorzain TSL3? I guess he also came close at DH valencia. | ||
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-Dustin-
United States718 Posts
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
On April 02 2012 17:34 DannyJ wrote: I played like 30ish games low/mid masters. I got ZvZ a VAST majority of the games. Played 4 terran total. Time to learn terran i suppose... sadly i don't think this Z surge is going to go anywhere when HotS comes out either. Time to train your zvz, HotS will be ZvZ galore | ||
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Aterons_toss
Romania1275 Posts
On April 02 2012 17:37 Hypemeup wrote: Because of TvP and people being weak and swapping to the new FoTM. Not that I am complaining, TvZ is fun to play. Another reason is that no non-korean terran is really that strong right now, so more people have foreign idols with zerg? Last non-korean terran to win a lan tournament was Naama at Dreamhack 2010? And the last big even won by a foreign terran was Thorzain TSL3? I guess he also came close at DH valencia. Its really situation based, TSL3 which was arguably the most important event ever since the beginning of sc2 expect for the GSL's was won by a terran, and that is the last important event won by foreign players with the exception of IPL3 which was won by Stephano ( who did not face any top tier koreans on his way to win ), Idra IEM ( which is not really on the level of a TSL , and the only good korean he beat was his teammate, and ofc HuK... but he trains in korea. Actually if you look at it this way.... since the koreans came into the scene foreigners won 5 tournaments 1 by a T, 2 by a Z and 2 by a P. Also, you can argue that the foreign terran didn't won that much is based on the fact that tvt is not as luck based as pvp or zvz thus when there race was "dominating" a tournament they stood no chance vs the remaining k terrans. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On April 02 2012 17:37 Aterons_toss wrote: According to sc2 ranking zerg are the least played race, but also the most avg point race, so you could deduce from that info that they are more active, still, its proly just RNG based, play a lil more and you will face less of em There are less Z in B and S, in all other leagues there are more Z. Don't see a pattern in points. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
Maps are great for them, most early agression build from P/T are figured out enough to not die to them, and it's actually pretty common to win the majority of your games once you reach Broodlords. ( And people like the whole " If I can get to that, I will most likely win " ) The popularity of people like Stephano or DRG definitly help too. When you look at Zerg builds used at the moment, these builds are easy to pick up ( not to master obviously ) with satisfying results. So yeah, it's not surprising to see a lot of Zerg now. | ||
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Ryps
Romania2740 Posts
On April 02 2012 15:30 latan wrote: because stephano Destiny, TLO, Idra, Sen, Catz and many more. Lets face it they did influence most of the people to switch to zerg after watching them for so much time. | ||
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MedicMarineControl
Sweden16 Posts
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figq
12519 Posts
On April 02 2012 17:56 eYeball wrote: This, and I strongly doubt the majority even switch races, more like some races are more active in certain periods.Ladder has always been very trendy, when the 1/1/1 was strongest I faced almost none PvP but mostly PvT and some PvZ. | ||
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sereniity
Sweden1159 Posts
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Cocoba
Canada352 Posts
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Kukaracha
France1954 Posts
On April 02 2012 18:09 Ryps wrote: Destiny, TLO, Idra, Sen, Catz and many more. Lets face it they did influence most of the people to switch to zerg after watching them for so much time. I think Stephano has this particular style of play that looks awefully simple and easy to pull off. You just listen to Bob Marley while getting 6 bases then you a-click the enemy base. How cool is that? I wanted to try it out so badly after watching him stream. | ||
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-Exalt-
United States972 Posts
it makes sense too, as (for example) on my off race account I have a like 10% winrate in TvT cause I just cheese (and cheese sucks in tvt) and i get about 70% TvT's. again I could be wrong, but it could be a system to make you try to improve your worst match up | ||
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nymfaw
Norway430 Posts
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AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
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Flamingo777
United States1190 Posts
On April 02 2012 18:09 Ryps wrote: Destiny, TLO, Idra, Sen, Catz and many more. Lets face it they did influence most of the people to switch to zerg after watching them for so much time. Now that I think about it, I do suppose that Zerg players get the most stream views, I'd be extremely interested to see total average viewers/race for like the top 20 streamers of each race. I wonder if Twitch would be willing to release statistics such as these. | ||
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algue
France1436 Posts
TvZ is my best match up and its imo the most beautiful MU to watch and the most entertaining to play ! => So much zerg = good thing ! ( I'm a zerg who switched to terran last season ) | ||
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AnalThermometer
Vatican City State334 Posts
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bokchoi
Korea (South)9498 Posts
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kyllinghest
Norway1607 Posts
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Antares_
Poland269 Posts
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Micket
United Kingdom2163 Posts
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THM
Bulgaria1131 Posts
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kusto
Russian Federation823 Posts
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InVerno
258 Posts
After "infestor boom" zerg race got the casual player favor for a gameplay reason, its simply a "moralized" camper mode, defend and wait for the deathball. When this situation "wait your deathball" was protoss, most ppl was playng protoss. Camper players switching race, nothing more. | ||
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cvt
United States192 Posts
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AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
On April 02 2012 18:50 Zeetox wrote: Many Terrans switched to Zerg recently, because of how ridiculous TvP became. . Not just because of that, there are so many factors imo, at this level TvZ is also really hard, unless you play mech which is a bit easier to pull off. I think Zerg is just really trendy, so many popular community figures play it, as pointed out on previous pages. IdrA, Stephano, Catz, Destiny etc get thousands and thousands of people watching them stream, terran streamers generally get far less viewers. Most casters seem to be zerg as well, and give off Zerg biased casts. Also because IdrA cries at basically every terran and protoss unit, random zergs on ladder think they can cry too. The amount of abuse terran players get on ladder from zergs is quite extreme, I find it funny though but it may put some off | ||
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
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GhostNova
Germany42 Posts
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dpurple
Turkmenistan592 Posts
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On April 02 2012 18:50 Zeetox wrote: Many Terrans switched to Zerg recently, because of how ridiculous TvP became. That's why on Diamond+, there are situations where you meet multiple Zergs in a row. I'm mid-high Diamond and this season I've played 124 games - 54 vs Z, 31 vs T and 39 vs P. You can also check sc2ranks.com, and see that in fact there are a lot of Zergs and Protosses, but not too many Terrans. If that were the only reason then you would expect protoss numbers to grow too but according to someone's research in the other thread protoss numbers have been dropping too albeit not quite as much as terran. | ||
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TigerKarl
1757 Posts
Also my ratio of enemy races on ladder seems pretty balanced, just slightly so that i encounter mostly protoss. | ||
Pholon
Netherlands6142 Posts
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