EPTthere are so many games where i have built a raven and just sat it behind a base and autoturret every 2 mins or so. in all of those games i've gotten 20 worker kills and sometimes upwards of 60 worker kills against gateway/robo toss even if the toss makes a stargate to make phoenixes he just invested more gas into making that . raven is also necessary against zerg due to burrow banelings autowinning if they get a hit off or burrowed roaches getting into your tank line or creep tumors. if they build a cannon, PDD covers for that. if they build a spine, put the autoturret somewhat further away and take out a extractor, it's energy based anyway.
Raven - Thoughts! - Page 2
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pingy[wen]
United States157 Posts
there are so many games where i have built a raven and just sat it behind a base and autoturret every 2 mins or so. in all of those games i've gotten 20 worker kills and sometimes upwards of 60 worker kills against gateway/robo toss even if the toss makes a stargate to make phoenixes he just invested more gas into making that . raven is also necessary against zerg due to burrow banelings autowinning if they get a hit off or burrowed roaches getting into your tank line or creep tumors. if they build a cannon, PDD covers for that. if they build a spine, put the autoturret somewhat further away and take out a extractor, it's energy based anyway. | ||
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JDub
United States976 Posts
1) In TvT they are made early on against cloaked banshee openings (raven + vikings shuts down cloaked banshee). While in this case the raven is primarily used as a mobile caster, auto turrets can actually be super important in early game skirmishes (typically marine/helion v. marine/helion) battles. 2) In TvT ravens are a huge part of playing mech v. bio, since PDD is so good against marauders (mech army is much more vulnerable without PDD if caught unsieged). 3) In TvT when playing bio v. mech, PDD can be used to get a drop successfully into a base that is heavily defended by turrets. I have seen this very occasionally used in pro games. I don't think it's "the most boring unit in the game" -- particularly, in TvT they are already used in a variety of different situations. I think it just needs to be explored more (e.g. In TvZ, PDD to protect tanks from mutas, and mobile detection to save scans. In TvZ or TvP using auto-turret walls to block off zealots or zerglings, or just using auto turrets to get the zealots to waste their charge ability.) I will agree that HSM seems like an ability that needs to be tweaked or replaced by something more interesting. If HSM were buffed a little bit too much it could easily become imbalanced. Edit: Jinro is right about raven in TvP -- feedback can not only kill it instantly but can also destroy your PDDs if you manage to cast them (or cast them in advance). | ||
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robih
Austria1086 Posts
On February 11 2012 01:17 Liquid`Jinro wrote: No, ravens will never work TvP, feedback RAPES them. feedback should also rape infestors, yet they are used against protoss | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
However i beleive vs Z in most of the game pre half map vs half map its pretty hard to get into ur unit compo. But when u got HSM itsdestroys Muti balls for fun and can even waste on banes if no muti. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Reapers and Ravens and Banshees are pretty much the only units that are not standalone massable units in the terran arsenal, no other race has so many units that work so well on their own already. I'd rather have more units for Terran like the Raven, that has its nieche roles. Seriously, mass Ravens in the superlategame is already one of the most potent TvT and TvZ compositions, as shown in various matches. If anything has to be changed, they should cut the Ravens offensive abilities (Autoturret, HSM) and give it more protective strenghts like the PDD and the detection. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
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MentalGNT
Denmark1264 Posts
On February 11 2012 01:20 Angel_ wrote: i wouldn't say never. I think it MIGHT be worth it to have 1-2 to set up PDD to effectively zone an area or prepare a battle if you can. But yeah, to bring INTO battle and hope to use...icky. The problem is just that PDD can be feedbacked as well. Ravens are already great in TvT... I don't think HSM needs to be buffed honestly - as Jinro said it's already really strong in the lategame vs. both T and Z. I'm sad that terrans still don't use ravens for detection in TvZ. Perhaps a slight buff to health and acceleration/movement speed would help out, since it's currently quite vulnerable to mutas? EDIT: Buffing the raven would of course make them even more dangerous in large numbers in lategame. Perhaps nerfing some of it's offensive abilities while making it easier to keep alive? | ||
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TheyCallMePops
United States81 Posts
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NachiMe
250 Posts
On February 11 2012 01:15 Obbalord wrote: Can you explain why? I dont see the raven often be used in pro matches, never autoturret and only PDD for the purposes i wrote. Thats a little bit slim imo :/. Broodlords can't dodge HSM and they stack. That's pretty damn good. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
No one ever wondered why Science vessel were so fast while raven are slow as hell ? I know Scourge ain"t in the game anymore but still.. | ||
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
They're also incredibly useful in TvT for meching terrans. PDD + Tanks > marauders. | ||
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ROOTIllusion
United States1060 Posts
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Papulatus
United States669 Posts
On February 11 2012 01:15 cydial wrote: HSM needs to be faster and cost less energy. If you want terran to never lose a tvz ever again this would be a good change. | ||
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
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Felnarion
442 Posts
In fact, I'd be interested in seeing if its possible to hit a banshee/Raven timing that comes before lair for Zerg. PDD would be able to protect a couple banshees for a long time against just queens/spore crawlers. In fact, the only thing zerg has that can hit Terran air protected by PDD is the infestor, with infested Terrans or fungals. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
 TvT though they're bloody amazing in a lot of different places, that have already been mentioned -- they are *essential* in mech vs. marauder, and quite useful in the massive lategame air battles. | ||
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blamekilly
466 Posts
On February 11 2012 01:14 Liquid`Jinro wrote: You are insane, the raven is one of terrans top 5 units. It has insane utility and is absolutely key whenever you play mech TvT. Yes, HSM needs some kind of buff still. Super late game mass raven is borderline broken vs T and Z already, however. You only came to that conclusion because of mech TvT. What about ravens compared to other casters? What about their high cost? What about ravens in other match ups? The raven is NOT a top 5 terran unit. | ||
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4Servy
Netherlands1542 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On February 11 2012 02:06 ArcticFox wrote: Wait...I'm just a bit confused. I've yet to see mass raven in lategame TvZ, so I'm trying to figure out what exactly the strength of this is. When PDD used to stop Brood Lord shots, that was one thing, but what can ravens do that ghosts can't for half the gas cost? If someone could link a VoD of them being used effectively in high level play, I would greatly appreciate it, I'm really curious now. TvT though they're bloody amazing in a lot of different places, that have already been mentioned -- they are *essential* in mech vs. marauder, and quite useful in the massive lategame air battles. This one is a simple example. Demuslim use mech + lategame mass ravens quite often in the EG practice games. Check it out. | ||
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