EPTCapitalism face off: a Brief Lecture - Page 3
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Tennoji
78 Posts
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On January 22 2012 23:55 Rassy wrote: Thoose who say an internattional banking conspiracy is retarded realy dont know whats going on. I cant agree with everything the op writes, i have no clue about the rothshields or rockefellers and their influence. I do know though,by simply looking at facts wich are made public , that the banking industry somehow manages to get huge amounts of monney for free from the governments. Like the last action, the 1% loan the central european bank gave to the banks in europe to combat the crisis. The banks wrote into this loan for a totall of ~ 600 trillion euro giving weak assets as collateral. The bank then immediatly lends all that monney out again for 3-4% by buying bonds and isueing mortgages. This is just a free 3% gift to the banks, and with a sum of 600 trillion this amounts to 18 trillion a year income the banks basicly get for free. There is NO risk, they are even allowed to use verry weak assests (wich have a value lower then then loan) as collateral. The deal with greece, 60% haircut on the bonds voluntarely, does that not hurt the banks then? No that does not hurt the banks at all, since the banks get compensated for this (see the 600 trillion loan for 1% amongst other measures), it only hurts the private investors who are forced to go along with the banks and who dont get compensation. The ECB lent to banks to add liquidity to the eurozone and the fight to recession, i.e. to get people loaning money again. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On January 22 2012 23:50 paralleluniverse wrote: Debt does not suck. No debt means your not doing anything useful. It means the government has the capacity to do more (whether it's upgrading infrastructure, investing in research, giving away free cars to everyone, whatever), but does nothing instead. Too much debt is of course bad, but the US is nowhere near that point. Fair enough, I agree that we require some amount of sacrifice to begin new enterprises, as for the us's debt well... Its not exactly a paper weight (15 trillion) and its rising every second. So thats not great, and it doesn't change the notion that although the interest is nothing for the US, it is significant for an individual and it is definitely significant to those who are owed. | ||
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d9mmdi
Germany179 Posts
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On January 22 2012 23:59 paralleluniverse wrote: The ECB lend to banks to add liquidity to the eurozone and the fight to recession, i.e. to get people loaning money again. Now your getting at what the spirit of the ops was all about, op just wanted to draw attention to the thing were already looking at, the fact of how greed breeds corruption and the overall weaknesses of capitalism. The family he was talking about was just a suitable proxy through which he could elaborate on his point. Still though If you just take the 5 seconds to google the afore mentioned family you'll find that ops not far off the mark in terms of how wealthy they are and how they earned that wealth. | ||
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
Yes i do know that, but lets look at this in a verry abstract way. Why is the bank (not the ecb, the commercial bank) needed as an intermediate at all???? Its just an intermediate who charges 3% extra in exchange for virtually no services. Why cant the ecb act like a bank, lending directly to the public for say 2%? The public is better of, as they pay less intererst, and the bank is better of, as they now make 2% instead of the 1% All the free profit the banks gets from this goes into bonusses for the top, the shareholders (retirement funds/the public) dont even profit from this! the whole system is so retarded | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On January 23 2012 00:01 d9mmdi wrote: dont understand the redicule. nothing he writes seems too far fetched to me. That said why is there not a single source given ?D I find it an interesting topic, ive read about the Rothschilds before and i feel urged by the article to do some reseach on my own. Before even doing that i already think that their are literally thousands of scandals of different magnitude throughout history that were covered up or never revealed. Look at all the things that happened during our lifetimes and those are only the things in public... There's not a single source because all the sources are shady websites or semi competent websites reporting the legendary interesting legend that the Rothschilds have "hundreds of trillions of dollars" which is such a ridiculous claim, it obscures whatever point he's trying to make. Plus, it's not the first time he makes a thread to talk about the "richest people in the world" and many people gobble it all up because he's a competent writer. Yes there is corruption, but there's no coordinated force to do anything, the Rothschilds certainly have many billions of dollars but not 15 figures, and given that they do banking, they probably handle great sums of money that they don't own, but "controlling the world"? Come on - people buy that because they like to feel like they know something that others don't. Makes them feel special. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On January 23 2012 00:01 d9mmdi wrote: dont understand the redicule. nothing he writes seems too far fetched to me. That said why is there not a single source given ?D I find it an interesting topic, ive read about the Rothschilds before and i feel urged by the article to do some reseach on my own. Before even doing that i already think that their are literally thousands of scandals of different magnitude throughout history that were covered up or never revealed. Look at all the things that happened during our lifetimes and those are only the things in public... He starts off the article establishing himself as the authority which is his justification for no info or links. Which I don't at all appreciate because I feel like he's treating us like children that need schooling and hes the man for the job. A lot of people probably picked up on that vibe which in conjunction with the usual knee jerk reaction to all things world domination likely spawned the negativity in this thread. | ||
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bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On January 23 2012 00:08 Djzapz wrote: There's not a single source because all the sources are shady websites or semi competent websites reporting the legendary interesting legend that the Rothschilds have "hundreds of trillions of dollars" which is such a ridiculous claim, it obscures whatever point he's trying to make. Plus, it's not the first time he makes a thread to talk about the "richest people in the world" and many people gobble it all up because he's a competent writer. Yes there is corruption, but there's no coordinated force to do anything, Not that wikipedia is a valid source but 5 seconds of searching show the family to be pretty damm rich, also the way they became rich (by getting a good grasp on the way the market was tilting) isn't far off the mark either. There isn't any blatant conspiracy theory rambling either just the suggestion that capitalism can be and has been abused by those with wealth which is a very common and agreed upon notion. Also he's made one thread of a similar vane and you discredit him as a rambling conspiracy theorist? Look at his history for a few seconds hes just your everyday Starcraft lover theres absolutely no basis in using his past history to discard his opinion. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On January 23 2012 00:15 gumshoe wrote: Not that wikipedia is a valid source but 5 seconds of searching show the family to be pretty damm rich, also the way they became rich (by getting a good grasp on the way the market was tilting) isn't far off the mark either. There isn't any blatant conspiracy theory rambling either just the suggestion that capitalism can be and has been abused by those with wealth which is a very common and agreed upon notion. Anyone can put anything on wikipedia. You demonstrated that you know that. Some guy once brought up the 15 figures idea and because of that, you can quote it on wikipedia. Yes the family is very rich but think about it, 15 figures... I recall the way it was calculated is absurd as well. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On January 23 2012 00:19 Djzapz wrote: Anyone can put anything on wikipedia. You demonstrated that you know that. Some guy once brought up the 15 figures idea and because of that, you can quote it on wikipedia. Yes the family is very rich but think about it, 15 figures... I recall the way it was calculated is absurd as well. But your getting away from the point, he's just using the whole rich family thing as an example, he's not saying that the banks will swallow our world, just that capitalism is an abusive system, whats wrong with that? | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On January 23 2012 00:24 gumshoe wrote: But your getting away from the point, he's just using the whole rich family thing as an example, he's not saying that the banks will swallow our world, just that capitalism is an abusive system, whats wrong with that? Well here's the thing, the fact that capitalism is an abusive system is quite apparent and things need to be done to "fix it" so that it doesn't explode in every direction. That's true. It can be explained without laying it on thick with all kind of cute stories. All he did was add some examples, many of which I'd like to see sources for - like the idea that a rich Jewish family lent money to Adolf Hitler and Japan during WW2 (among other seemingly shoddy claims). Now maybe it's true, but I figure it's just one of those unsourced urban legend that came out of some kinds of "hype" surrounding the interesting family. | ||
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
Just look at the facts and how the system works and you can see there is something wrong Why are the commercial banks allowed to profit in a huge way from our system of monney creation? This is an enormous amount of free monney a year I dont attack the system of monney creation btw! I do think its a good system to motivate the people, what i do attack is the way private banks are allowed to profit from this in a huge way, in exchange for virtually nothing (if it goes wrong they get bailed out annyway) Monney creation and banking should be nationalised | ||
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AZN)Boy
United States57 Posts
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On January 23 2012 00:28 Djzapz wrote: Well here's the thing, the fact that capitalism is an abusive system is quite apparent and things need to be done to "fix it" so that it doesn't explode in every direction. That's true. It can be explained without laying it on thick with all kind of cute stories. All he did was add some examples, many of which I'd like to see sources for - like the idea that a rich Jewish family lent money to Adolf Hitler and Japan during WW2 (among other seemingly shoddy claims). Now maybe it's true, but I figure it's just one of those unsourced urban legend that came out of some kind of "hype" surrounding the interesting family. I agree with you he definitely could've used some sources because it is hard to swallow that there actually was a sort of Moriarty controlling the supply and demand of ww2. Im guessing he probably heard about this family in a lecture and thought it would be a good way to add some colour to the obvious and bland problems within a capitalist system. I cant really bring myself to fault him for that, but I do realize that not posting sources was asking for trouble. Although attacking his character for past threads was not a good way of emphasizing his mistake. | ||
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Selendis
Australia509 Posts
They are a bane to humanity, if not for them our history would be much more peaceful and prosperous. Anyway, an excellent post, OP. But you should really add in a few references for credibility. | ||
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Deadeight
United Kingdom1629 Posts
I am wary of accepting a lot of it without some references etc, though I am sure there is some truth in it. After exams I think I'm going to look into this a bit more. | ||
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EternaLLegacy
United States410 Posts
You fail to see that the only way the bankers were ever able to operate at such a grand scale and with such great power is through the violence of the State. Without violence enforced monopolies on banking, violence enforced wars to rack up debts, and violence enforced taxation to pay those back, the large banking cartel could never have existed. Remove the power from politicians and the banks have to compete on the open market and can't put governments in their pockets. | ||
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helclaw
United States19 Posts
On January 23 2012 00:09 gumshoe wrote: He starts off the article establishing himself as the authority which is his justification for no info or links. Which I don't at all appreciate because I feel like he's treating us like children that need schooling and hes the man for the job. A lot of people probably picked up on that vibe which in conjunction with the usual knee jerk reaction to all things world domination likely spawned the negativity in this thread. That feeling of yours comes from your own insecurity that you know very little on this matter and can not contribute to the discussion for or against it. That is why your entire comment has not brought anything productive to the discussion. | ||
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