Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 217

On August 30 2011 13:39 SoKHo wrote:


oh i'm sorry, you must have been living in a cave when nestea won 4 GSL championships

On August 30 2011 14:01 KimJongChill wrote:


He's won three. Zerg isn't a bad race at all, or even very weak. It's just that the design of the race is very stale, and balance changes are really just mediocre attempts to cover up these fundamental flaws. Now obviously, they can't make any large, sweeping changes to the race design now, but hope things will become more interesting in hots.

On August 30 2011 14:41 tuho12345 wrote:

Zerg isn't stale, they're more flexible than Protoss. Protoss has fewer options than Zerg, and weaker response.

On August 30 2011 14:45 Ihpares wrote:


Can't really tell if you're serious. Protoss has more units, of greater variety. Does that not translate to greater options?

On a brief sidenote, why does no Protoss "Destiny" exist that utilizes almost purely Zealot/Senty/High Templar? It seems like with half-decent unit control and flanking, you could force an opponent into a bubble of Forcefields, then just storm them repeatedly. Caster units really can swing an entire match into one's favor rather quickly.

On August 30 2011 14:45 Ihpares wrote:
Can't really tell if you're serious. Protoss has more units, of greater variety. Does that not translate to greater options?

On August 30 2011 14:45 Ihpares wrote:
On a brief sidenote, why does no Protoss "Destiny" exist that utilizes almost purely Zealot/Senty/High Templar? It seems like with half-decent unit control and flanking, you could force an opponent into a bubble of Forcefields, then just storm them repeatedly. Caster units really can swing an entire match into one's favor rather quickly.

On August 30 2011 14:56 tuho12345 wrote:

First, Protoss has more expensive units and tech tree, so switching up or transition much harder.

2nd b/c no Khaydarian Amulet??? Protoss has more units, but carriers and mothership are useless. So it all come down to colossus and HTs, now if you go heavier HTs, 1 single EMP will kill you easily just like MC lost to Puma. On the other side you obviously don't play Protoss, sentry and HT can't go together, who spend 100/250 for 1 ht and 1 sentry? Do you know how expensive it is? You got EMP = die instantly, no FFs, sentries does lowest dps in the game, HT take lots of time to morph in archon and archon is not really great at all.
The "Destiny" composition here is Zealot, archon and HTs. But you never be so sure about that combo.

On August 30 2011 14:45 Ihpares wrote:


Can't really tell if you're serious. Protoss has more units, of greater variety. Does that not translate to greater options?

On a brief sidenote, why does no Protoss "Destiny" exist that utilizes almost purely Zealot/Senty/High Templar? It seems like with half-decent unit control and flanking, you could force an opponent into a bubble of Forcefields, then just storm them repeatedly. Caster units really can swing an entire match into one's favor rather quickly.

On August 30 2011 15:05 kodas wrote:

You do know EMP can only drain shields/energy per EMP right?

On August 30 2011 14:45 Ihpares wrote:


Can't really tell if you're serious. Protoss has more units, of greater variety. Does that not translate to greater options?

On a brief sidenote, why does no Protoss "Destiny" exist that utilizes almost purely Zealot/Senty/High Templar? It seems like with half-decent unit control and flanking, you could force an opponent into a bubble of Forcefields, then just storm them repeatedly. Caster units really can swing an entire match into one's favor rather quickly.

On August 30 2011 06:03 MinimalistSC2 wrote:


bwahahaha. You're full of turds.
an orbital pays off for itself after 315 seconds (over 5 minutes) game time.
orbitals late game are no way overpowered

are you suggesting that late game comes before 20 min mark? If a terran gets 4 orbitals by the 20 minute mark. (which is by no means impossible and in most games the case) then according to you, starting with the first orbital at the 5 min mark and continuing upwards, the terran will have one full base of free, continuous income by the 25 minute mark. Provided they have a base to mine from, they get income for free.

More importantly, it denies other races the ability to harass workers. and gives terran 20 extra supply to work with. And that is only FOUR orbitals. And don't forget gold bases.

You can say zerg can make drones at an imbalanced rate, but drones cost minerals and larva nad supply. You can say Protoss can make probes at an imbalanced rate is extremely difficult to harass late game, but probes cost money and supply and warp ins do as well. Mules do not cost money, terrans typically have four or more orbitals by the time a game is considered in the "late game" and with scvs they can over saturate bases for more income than a single base should allow and severely abuse gold base income rates. A fully saturated gold base with 2-3 orbtials pumping mules at it is a 3 base mineral income. and pays back late game mule farming IN ADVANCE.

Mules are necessarily for terran early and mid game, but after a gold base or deep into late game, they are imbalanced and spiral out of control. 550 minerals (150 really for the first 2-3 OCs, since you need a CC anyway) is stupidly cheap for free detection scouting and mining on a minute by minute basis for the rest of the game, when the rest of the game is 30+ minutes.

On August 30 2011 16:40 usethis2 wrote:
Zerg is such a hot potato for Blizzard when it comes to balance. It's a design issue and macro mechanic that can make everything x10 times more powerful than Blizzard expected, if players finds a way. Thusly Zerg "buffs" almost always come in the form of nerfs to the other races. Only notable direct buffs to zerg units or techs have been +1 roach range and +armor damage for infestors. The rest of balancing act for Z is nerf/buff to the other two races. In this patch there is the 3rd biggest change to Zerg itself (Ultralisk build time) since release, and despite Z players not being too appreciative (understandably) I am somewhat skeptical that change will make out of the PTR without modification (say, 10 sec decrease instead of 15).

I do feel bad for Z but Z is not a weak race by any means, IMO. I feel the racial balance is pretty good as of now. (Though immortal timing attack against Z is pretty sweet in PTR, I admit ^^ ) Z will eventually learn to defend. Once you nail your mechanics and other races timings, I feel like Zerg can actually be the strongest race at the very tip-top level. (I am talking about code S, a year from now)

And I'd like to caution fellow TL'ers who often identify themselves with Korean players and get worked up depending upon whether their hero has risen/fallen. TL seems very pro-protoss, and Protoss simply doesn't get the same respect in Korea. I don't imply anything here but simply stating the cultural bias in Korea. Of course strong Protoss players are feared and respected, as they should be. But if there is an aspiring new comer, experienced seniors will likely suggest them to pick T or Z as her/his race. There is a strong cultural "bias" that favors T and Z over P in Korea, and thus it will be very difficult to compare the state of the game between that of Korea and the rest of the world.

For example, many successful WC3 players switched to SC2 in the foreign scene and a lot of them chose Protoss. But if you look at Korea, you will see most players from WC3 background choose T/Z regardless how one might think of that. Check, Maka, Polt, Moon, Lyn, Violet,.. etc. They all went with T or Z, and you would think P would suit them better - at least for some of them. But they did not choose P. Would they have been more successful had they chosen Protoss instead of T/Z? Can't know/tell. But the fact is that they chose T/Z while many similarly situated foreigners opted for Protoss. It should be telling.

One scene that might grab more attention in the future is the Chinese SC2 scene. As far as I know there is no strong T/Z favoritism over there - if anything it seems like many chinese think P is the race to choose for success. So if - a big if - the SC2 scene someone grows in China I believe P might become the most respected race over there.

On August 30 2011 16:40 usethis2 wrote:




And I'd like to caution fellow TL'ers who often identify themselves with Korean players and get worked up depending upon whether their hero has risen/fallen. TL seems very pro-protoss, and Protoss simply doesn't get the same respect in Korea. I don't imply anything here but simply stating the cultural bias in Korea. Of course strong Protoss players are feared and respected, as they should be. But if there is an aspiring new comer, experienced seniors will likely suggest them to pick T or Z as her/his race. There is a strong cultural "bias" that favors T and Z over P in Korea, and thus it will be very difficult to compare the state of the game between that of Korea and the rest of the world.

On August 30 2011 16:40 usethis2 wrote:

And I'd like to caution fellow TL'ers who often identify themselves with Korean players and get worked up depending upon whether their hero has risen/fallen. TL seems very pro-protoss, and Protoss simply doesn't get the same respect in Korea. I don't imply anything here but simply stating the cultural bias in Korea. Of course strong Protoss players are feared and respected, as they should be. But if there is an aspiring new comer, experienced seniors will likely suggest them to pick T or Z as her/his race. There is a strong cultural "bias" that favors T and Z over P in Korea, and thus it will be very difficult to compare the state of the game between that of Korea and the rest of the world.