just put it at the top in a spoiler make sure you introduce the situation properly and do go off on a personal rant
Hello community,
This thread will consist of three things: 1) Why I am retiring from Starcraft:BroodWar. 2) iCCup's contribution; specifically quoted text from their administration. 3) What I hope to have left the community, how I will still be minorly contributing, and an expression of my appreciation.
Some may know me as LRM)Game, some as MgZ)inG, some as Odin[fOu], but few as Dave. Despite that, if you have been active in the foreign BW community as of 2005, you have ran into me or heard of my works at one time or another. But of my recent IPBan from iCCup, and some other very major projects that are unbeknownst to those who don't work with me regularly within Los Reyes del Mambo or the tournaments I organize, I have been pushed over the edge as Game and need more time for Dave. After the glory in LRM) and other lack need of mention tournaments, real life has caught up with me. With three summer courses right now, five insanely hard fall courses coming up shortly after, and a real life to maintain, I will be around and helping friends, but not doing anything special. As of the end of ISL2 I will be retiring. Also, at the end of this iCCupCL/BWCL season I will be handing the reigns of LRM) over to LRM)jinu, an old prominent and capable leader, and LRM)nOoNe who will be managing the team.
As I promised to Nvoyne, there would be no biased hatred or personal grudge here, just fact.
Disclaimer: Everything here is copy/pasted except for the missing copy/pastes of iCCup.GeckoXP who made all of the messages ever sent between the two of us disappear from my various inboxes.
So, you have used our server, our admins, our community, our anti-hack, our webpage, and you will sell your replay pack and we dont get anything?.You are free to post it, of course, is not broken any rule with this, but, this ends here.
There is no more ISL at iccup, no more privte forum, no more banners, no more admins involved with private tournaments without benefit for us. We will not solve any more complaints of tagged players from now.
You are a smart person and you will understand this quickly.
If you want to organize a tournament when you will sell something, you will have to pay for it a iccup.
Regards,
My response: from: AR iccup.cheloman
08 Apr @ 11:21 CET [RE]: Hey
#1 there was never an agreement to pay iCCup any royalties for anything. #2 iCCup staff was counter-productive in ISL. The banners were cool, the headaches were not.
I've been made aware that the first screenshot is too small. In the middle of a conversation I received a message "Your account has been locked by an Admin." The last message on the screenshot is "To iCCup.Paladin: Why was my account just locked?"
today @ 02:37 CET iCCup.Paladin /ipban a 6x.xx.xx.xxx 178.xxx.xx.xx iCCup.Paladin today @ 02:37 CET iCCup.Paladin /kill lrm)game 178.xxx.xx.xx iCCup.Paladin today @ 02:36 CET iCCup.Paladin /lockacct lrm)game 178.xxx.xx.xx iCCup.Paladin today @ 02:36 CET iCCup.Paladin /lockacct lrm)game. 178.xxx.xx.xx iCCup.Paladin today @ 02:36 CET iCCup.Paladin /lockacct lrm)game.. 178.xxx.xx.xx iCCup.Paladin today @ 02:35 CET iCCup.Paladin /lockacct lrm)game... 178.xxx.xx.xx iCCup.Paladin today @ 02:35 CET iCCup.Paladin /lockacct lrm)gayme 178.xxx.xx.xx iCCup.Paladin today @ 02:35 CET iCCup.Paladin /lockacct lrm)gayme2 178.xxx.xx.xx iCCup.Paladin
With this said, I hope I have left the BW community better than when I found it, from a managerial and organizational standpoint. I no longer have the time to give the countless hours of BW work or the want to deal with it. However, given that I have had certain parties working with me through thick and thin on several things, I'm sure people like nOoNe, Sayle, and JoeKim will be fully capable of continuing the foundation that I have laid. I left several other important names out there, which I apologize for, but I don't want to drag this text out for the tl;dr. Also, as my one last offer of availability to the community, if there are tournaments to be hosted and people are unsure who to contact, or need me to hold the prizepool for mediation sake, I'm willing to help.
Lastly, I want to thank the Starcraft:Broodwar community as a hole for providing me with a very realistic home, albeit online. For the support I received, the flaming that kept me motivated, the uncontrolled bias that made me feel like I was in a war prison and needed to prove my innocence, all of the people that have helped sponsor tournaments to enhance our fading scene, and last but not least - my loyal friends and what I would even consider real friends, thank you all very much.
Good Luck and Thank you for what you have done. Regardless of what iCCup says about you, i have always been respecting you for what you have done for the community. Good luck with your real life.
really looks like paladin is having fun on his powertrip. situation really kinda sucks you'll be missed in this community, lets just pray that somehow the tournament situation can keep being as rich as you're leaving it
On June 30 2011 13:53 konadora wrote: the first screenshot is too small for me to see. so what happened is Game hosted a tourney on iccup, but iccup demanded royalties (?!?) for it?
Edit: Put a screenshot explanation in a spoiler above it.
Kinda was afraid this would happen after the crap with ISL2. Game's not a saint, but it's still really shitty what iccup did no matter what way you slice it. IMHO they were really at fault here.
Either way it's stupid for such a small supposedly tight-knit community (LOL) like this to cannibalize itself. We needed guys like Game now more than ever.
THis thread makes me rage really hard. WTF is up with iccup??? If Blizzard doesnt charge anything for a replay pack, why on EARTH should Iccup, a private "illegal" server be allowed a piece of the sale?
This is fkn bullshit. Seeing Paladin even lying to other admins is just regretful. + Show Spoiler +
iCCup.Paladin: "like I wrote above: just one violation of Rules and flaming of the Server too much.
So iCCup has managed to drive away one of the greatest tournament organizers in current BW?
Wonderful... I guess I'm going to have to man up, learn some korean, and install brain/fish since I cannot support a server that takes actions that are effectively killing the foreign BW community.
Anyway, thanks for all of the great things you have done for this community (especially in the past year!) and I wish you luck in your future endeavors.
Sad to see you gone. Thanks for hosting tournaments!
I don't know what I'm going to do about Iccup. Obviously, Fish is the better place to practice and mass games anyways, but it's nice to see people you know and be able to talk to people from time to time. I'm quite disappointed they're so dramatic...
You've always somehow found yourself at the center of drama. I don't know how you do that, but I do know you run a good tournament. Sucks to see you go, and I hope you enjoy whatever you end up doing. Your passion for things makes me think you will.
deeply appreciate all the work you put in. Without your tourneys I'd have given up on foreign bw a while back, and probably wouldn't have ever played to improve at any point. Also, the short time you were streaming, you were my single favorite streamer. I'll miss you.
You have my eternal gratitude for all youve done for the bw community, and ive enjoyed our msn convos as well :p Without you, BW would be much less than it is today.
I dont even want to start on iccups behavior, but ill suffice it to say that i am fucking disappointed.
Good bye and thanks for your contributions. I won't be using Iccup anymore either :p. They've always been bad (Hey we could just stop the server, YOU WANT THAT HUH??) but this time they went out of their way to do it by likely killing the last big BW tournament ever for the foreign scene.
After reading some of your comments in my stream chat I have no reason to like you personally, + Show Spoiler +
the users name was LRM)Game (maybe just 'Game'?) and made it pretty apparent he thought my live commentary of the defiler.ru nostalgia league finals was terrible, and I'm pretty confident it wasn't someone else posing as you. I can deal with constructive criticism, but it was practically straight insults.
, but I would be lying if I said you were never an asset to the community as a whole, so with that, I bid you adieu.
So a brand new power tripping head admin ip bans one of the very few people actually trying to help the foreign BW community because he has a personal grudge against him. fucking pathetic.
It truly is a shame that things like this must happen. The entire Brood War community thanks you for all the hard work you put in, Game. Few people can even fathom the amount of work you put into Brood War, and even less people can grasp the incredible idiocy of (some) of the ICCup administration. I wish you success in all your future endeavors, and I truly am sorry things had to end like this.
On June 30 2011 14:22 HawaiianPig wrote: You've always somehow found yourself at the center of drama. I don't know how you do that, but I do know you run a good tournament. Sucks to see you go, and I hope you enjoy whatever you end up doing. Your passion for things makes me think you will.
lmao, Game this scenario was COMPLETELY your own damn fault. You probably will be missed by some, but clearly you weren't thinking at all when you constantly flamed ICCUP admins while trying to use their services. Charging for ISL replays also made absolutely no sense in 2010/2011. If you really cared so much, host your own server.
edit: I think you're an idiot to put it nicely...given the stuff that you posted NO ONE would be on your side. ICCUP acted fairly professionally in dealing with you, and you just acted like a complete baby. gj.
All I remember about you from BW is that you were a cheater/hacker; it seems you redeemed yourself to some extent in the years/months that SC2 made ICCup irrelevant. Unfortunately, I guess they didn't realize that. Too bad, no one cares anymore Iccup. Enjoy your uselessness.
So let me check what I've understood from this topic. Iccup acted like blizzard, game acted like kespa. Game did all the dirty work about organizing tourneys, managing a team in multiple leagues, getting dissed anyway, and still be useful to the community. When game tried to charge people for replays, iccup wanted his share, just like blizz-kespa situation. And just like that, this also could be solved by a simple agreement. Power tripping or not, this destructive attitude of iccup that created problems with people like eywa, joekim and game should be changed imo.
BM or not, who started the ISL? Who revived the foreign scene to a point where people started following Sayle's stream?
Game put everything into the foreign BW scene, hoping that it will become something much larger. Sure, there was the replay thing, but he was trying to pay those who did hard work, plus putting the money towards other leagues, such as ISL2 (was hinted by him and few others few times).
For ISL2, we have Kaal as our sponsor. However, from what I've heard and seen, he tried many times to get big corporations to sponsor ISL. I'm not even joking; I have a copy of his draft letter to a business (Will not release this or the company's name since I'm not sure if Game wants the information to go out). It didn't work out, but it showed me once again how much Game wanted this to be popular, and become one of the biggest leagues around the world.
Despite your BMs, Game, I salute you for many things that you have done in past few months. Hopefully, it doesn't go to waste, as I hope that upcoming ISL2 will be amazing. And for that secret thing that we talked about: I'll try to make it more awesome than it already is.
Very sad to see the way iCCup reacts in this matter. Game was the best organizer left in the BW scene. Sad to see you leave for a matter like this, I hope you will return someday.
Someone once compared this whole iCCup vs. Game debacle to the Blizzard vs. Kespa shenanigans... pretty much both parties did some sort of a fck up, and the fans suffered as a result. Props to game for not having a hate fueled, biased post, though he easily could have given the nature of iCCup's actions, though from what I understand iCCup has had reason to hate game... I guess the community would have been better off without all the fighting, too bad.
Well... this sucks, I hope game succeds in real life and knows that he will be missed Also, ICCup...wtf people ? This whole situation is retarded and it is obvious who came out the better man.
On June 30 2011 19:27 juuust wrote: Why does someone charge for coaching?
To make some money ofc! And tbh I dont see how iccup should get something from that, enlighten me if Im wrong :o
He wasn't even getting money for himself, it was a small % to his admins and the rest for the next tournament he made for the community.
Ah! Well it's still making money and nothing wrong with that as far as I can see.
Good luck whatever you decide to do next Game!
I'm almost 100% sure some of that went into his own pocket ><.
I hope foreign Brood War continues on without Game, who did so much. Sayle & Co. (Tesla etc) are good casters. The others have done a lot too. Must keep BW alive!
Such a drama queen. Every post I've seen from you is basically shitting on iccup and trying to get people to shit on iccup. And people are actually buying it. Sad to see the community in such a pitiful state.
On June 30 2011 20:01 sashkata wrote: Such a drama queen. Every post I've seen from you is basically shitting on iccup and trying to get people to shit on iccup. And people are actually buying it. Sad to see the community in such a pitiful state.
Thanks for all your effort Game, you may not hear this enough, but it really was quite appreciated and encouraging to see that at least some people haven't abandoned all love for foreign Brood War. I wish you the best, and again thank you for all your hard effort, the community sure didn't make it easier.
However, whatever way you look at it, it's pretty preseuptous to think anyone in the foreign scene can host ANY sort of compettion without direct support from iCCup; I don't care about personal squabbles and nuances, if you want stuff to happen, don't anger the beast. People go on about power-mad dictators head-admins, well sorry if you don't like it just leave .... oh wait, you can't, because each and every fucking one of us uses the service iCCup provides. That doesn't mean you cannot be concerned about the direction the leadership is going and you can't express your concerns, but where the hell's the gratitude, the appreciation or the respect for an organization which is the one and sole reason why people can still play Brood War past D+ level?!
Personally, if I was an iCCup admin (casting here I come) with no background information on the story, I'd go with Paladin, with iCCup and with the survival of the foreign scene.
Poll: Is iCCup the most Convenient place for me to play at the right level?
No (32)
59%
Yes (22)
41%
54 total votes
Your vote: Is iCCup the most Convenient place for me to play at the right level?
GL with life Game. Really appreciate what you did for the foreign scene. @biTt.man There are plenty of ways on how you can host a tournament without using ICCUP like hamachi, Bnet, garena, or even hosting your own PvPGN server
Disregarding your personality which certainly could use some improving to say the least, I must admit that you can organize a tournament. This is something that was desperately needed in these times for foreign BW community and it will be extremely hard to find another person putting up incredible hours of work with hard dedication to keep the foreign BW scene somewhat alive.
Also, props for enduring through the 3v3 BGH tournament, not many people have mental strength to deal with so many BGH players at once .
Iccup has been going down for quite some time already. The admin stuff and its stupidity makes playing on this server so obnoxious for every kind of player. I wouldn't care tho if Iccup wasn't the last bastion of foreign SC:BW that was keeping non-korean community alive for last few years.
On June 30 2011 21:05 bITt.mAN wrote: Personally, if I was an iCCup admin (casting here I come) with no background information on the story, I'd go with Paladin, with iCCup and with the survival of the foreign scene.
Ya need 'em, you can attempt checks and ballances, but don't infuriate them.
Not just for ladder, but for finding games with LL in a place that isin't a shit-hole.
You do realize that there are enough servers you could play on, but what truely made people stay within the game or even made them come back or play more active, were the tournaments hosted by Game, he simply used that server as a platform where most people have already been registered.
And the LL, you can go to any server and use ChaosLauncher, which is where the LL originally comes from. Just go to the fish or brain server or even USWest to find good games above D+ and oftenly probably even more friendly people.
edit: btw, to all of you who want to abandon iCCup, at least play in the ISL2, because that's all Game left for us right now, so iCCup can see that truely this event benefited them from the beginning, with getting more ladder games. Because all I hear from all people is that the ladder sucks nowadays due to too few people.
Well this is unfortunate I guess even though I never liked Game's negative attitude, although people need to realize that Game is not the only person who can organize a tournament, and he wasn't the sole reason for keeping the foreign BW scene alive, it's the people within it.
You are such an obscure character, but the quality of your work means so much more and I want to thank you for that! gl hf one last time in whatever future you choose!
Game, just as you said when referring to what you didn't boot Semih from the ISL, 'you need to hear both sides of the story' (light paraphrase), I won't go on a diatribe against ICCUP.
As Grobyc mentioned earlier, I don't personally care for you or your demeanor, but I can't say that I don't appreciate some of the stuff you've done for the BW community. It was nice to have foreign BW tournaments around. Good luck in your future ventures.
It was nice that you were working to keep the scene alive, but you've had a terrible attitude towards a lot of stuff, and this honestly seemed like just a matter of time. Regardless, what's said and done is past; good luck with your future.
Iccup is honestly like a battle.net server these days, it's not needed. Fish is probably the best server followed by (if you are at least 1) active 2) not a smurf) west. Back to the original post, is this "quitting" synonymous with changing ID? I don't know if anyone ever actually quits BW...
Thank you Game for keeping especifically LRM in the top and the BW community active in the e-sports scene
This is a really bad news
Not a good choice by Palladin to ban you :S
EDIT: By the way, when I was iCCup admin these powerful and negative attitude by admins never happened, only with Cheloman... Maybe that's the black sheep
On July 01 2011 00:06 shinyA wrote: Sup Dave~ <- SouL)Z(CutebOy ^_^
I didn't know you still played bw, you should come to SC2 and play for fun ~ =)
Heh Cute, I have no intention of playing SC2. That would do two things. A) Tie up more of my time (also learning space in my tiny little head B) Make me want to run right back to BW.
So am I interpreting this correctly when they are saying 'No ISL if you are going to sell replays' and you are leaving because of this? It really doesn't sound like they're kicking you out in that PM, it sounds like they want you to stop the bullshit. Why are you abandoning an entire project with many people working on it just because they don't want you selling replays?
I really can't view iCCup as evil. It's a functional ladder provided for free even if there is a lot of dumb drama behind the scenes.
On July 01 2011 01:04 Chef wrote: So am I interpreting this correctly when they are saying 'No ISL if you are going to sell replays' and you are leaving because of this? It really doesn't sound like they're kicking you out in that PM, it sounds like they want you to stop the bullshit. Why are you abandoning an entire project with many people working on it just because they don't want you selling replays?
I really can't view iCCup as evil. It's a functional ladder provided for free even if there is a lot of dumb drama behind the scenes.
Man I play 80% of my ladder games on Fish/Brain and I'm only going to go back to play on Iccup for ISL2. So yeah I think Game not only did good stuff for BW, he actually helped ICCUP (even if it wasn't intentional) driving people back to a ladder that is less and less active every day. The ISL2 will get more ladder games played in a month than ICCUP gets in a season.
Game's tourneys benefit both the community and ICCUP. ICCUP actions towards Game not only hurts him but they hurt the whole community and themselves.
So yeah, Game is BM and trash talks the admins. But instead of taking it like it is just some guy's anger management problems Iccup take it personally and get offended. I mean if you can get offended by some guy you don't know over the internet... and if his flamings can prevent you from doing the work you do for the community you love. Maybe your love is not big enough and you shouldn't have volunteered to work for the community for free.
People have written here before that they don't actually like Game but they respect him.
That's right they respect him. Why?
I'll tell you why: Because when someone flamed Game, when somebody just criticized him in a non-constructive way, maybe he got mad, maybe he didn't, but he kept working for the community he loved. Because that's the way you work when you love something. You just try to ignore the people and the situations that annoys you.
So yeah, I'm sorry ICCUP but spending your time and resources just to avoid getting offended and flamed is not professional in any way.
The question shouldn't be if the community needs ICCUP.
The real question should be: Does ICCUP needs admins that can't have a professional attitude towards "offenses" and criticism?
Considering that Game sells replays, I think I'd rather wait until an Iccup staff member comments before making my judgments on this business. I can't deny that they're known for heavy abuse though.
On July 01 2011 01:52 Lightwip wrote: Considering that Game sells replays, I think I'd rather wait until an Iccup staff member comments before making my judgments on this business. I can't deny that they're known for heavy abuse though.
OP clearly shows that iccup staff are not to comment on this at all, so we pretty much have to form our opinions based on game's word alone.
You'd think during a time where foreigner BW is in pretty big decline, Iccup would work through such an 'issue' without need for perma-banning someone who contributes to whatever is left in the community.
Ah fuck, this is a terrible news. I'm happy that I got to know you back in BW. Thanks for all the games/conversations we had. I wish you the best in the future.
On July 01 2011 01:52 Lightwip wrote: Considering that Game sells replays, I think I'd rather wait until an Iccup staff member comments before making my judgments on this business. I can't deny that they're known for heavy abuse though.
Well he was going to give 90% of the sales back. I also had my doubts about this at the beginning. It's hard to trust someone that asks for money even if he promises to give it back.
But then the ISL grow to 1000$ tourney
He got us many 75$-200$ tourneys after ISL.
And now he got 1500$ sponsorship for ISL2
So now I think he was been honest about his intentions. He just wanted the community to help itself with 5$. He just presented it in a bad way and this made everyone get suspicious.
But he didn't fail to deliver ever since. He could have abandoned his projects when he was denied the support. And now we are here with a 1500$ thx to him.
So I think he has proven he had the best intentions with the replay sale already.
What childish kids...Iccup does some great things for the community, but this seems like an unprofessional move that sites like TL would never fall into...
Well, there's a lot of things I could say and I know there are a lot of things that Game left unsaid, but will attempt to keep this short as possible.
I've known LRM)Game before he even heard of LRM. He was around during Mix, 55, Ladder Challenges, Pogi, and practically during the rise as well as the fall of nilla (original SC). He branched out to Brood War before a lot of us alongside Boxerz[Siege] (Skew, Alex) and was quickly recognized as a prominent gamer. Back then, his more popular handle was Vega. For those old schoolers that kinda think you remember him but don't remember his akas, he was sG.Vega, Game.tQ, Game[LighT], MgZ)inG, Excello.Game, MgZ)Game, Odin[fOu], Xion_G.VeGa, Johndoe[ScM] & Game[MnM].
Our history together involved a lot of shit talking, mainly towards each other until Brood War started to "die." Having a common ambition to keep our addiction breathing, we decided to collaborate. With experience came knowledge, thus we piggybacked a lot of ideas from the past with prestigious events (ISL <> TSL), other money tournaments, live event broadcasts, seeking sponsors, community involvement, etc etc etc. Just a shit-ton of projects contributing to a major goal, leaving a jab of a scar on SC2 for the superman punch it has left on BW.
ISL was way more successful than I ever expected. It was not as well-fortified as TSL since ISL did not have 20+ people working together, as well as getting paid, however we worked with what we had and we were fueled off pure passion. Once ISL was over, gamers were not satisfied. They craved the flavor that was left in their mouths. That yearning was slowly quenched but never fully appeased. ISL2 was necessary and boy, it was going to be heaps better than the first. Unlike movie sequels, BW Tournaments can only get better because lessons are learned after launching a prototype: Prize Pool gets bigger, competition gets heavier, format aspects are more solidified, viewer count rises, so on and so forth.
Yet with every cause or business involving money, there is always an inclination to try and make some money. The time and effort being invested should definitely be rewarded even if it's purely miniscule. We were looking at like $10 each for the whole "Replay Sales" fiasco(?) OMG right? Well, it didn't really pull through and even if it did, Game would push us towards pitching in for ISL2 anyway. I agree that donations would have probably been better, but it was just an attempt to see how it would go, kinda like tipping a waiter for his servitude (when you return, it will be better).
ISL2 was of the utmost importance though. Knowing this, I desperately contacted every higher up that I knew to get un-IPbanned. Unfortunately, the decision was ultimately up to the current Head Admin. He gave me a chance to make amends by removing all my malicious content towards iCCup Admins (Messer). Therefore, I removed my TL signature regarding the JoeKim vs iCCup, but I completely forgot that I made a new YouTube account to rant about Messer. That should have been deleted too, but I was unaware, so the IPban is still in permanent effect. Although I've praised the great work he has done regarding iCCup overall, I was against a lot of his decisions outside of iCCup.
Excessive BM was never manipulated in this manner, if it was, Ladder 2x2 would always be under /moderate and every 2v2 player would have to whisper one another. The fact that Game has valor in this community puts him on a higher pedestal subject to higher punishment. Any post outside of iCCup site/server shouldn't be applicable i.e. if a Facebook/YouTube post is made, or if someone were to Tweet something about iCCup, people/gamers should have that freedom to express themselves. There was no announcement regarding this new regulation that if you post things outside of iCCup site/server and get caught, you will be punished. I know this for an absolute fact, because during Mai-K's Head Admin Leadership, I let him know about Team [SOA]'s Portuguese Forum talking shit about me and all of the ICCUP Admins when I caught/banned Capri from iCCup Clan League for cheating; yet since it does not involve the site nor the server, "justice" cannot be served.
All in all, before I turn this post into a full on 10-page essay. I just want to say that I was really excited for ISL2 because it was Game's second child. These early stages of it was like a Baby Shower on a beautiful summer day that got shat on by Hurricane _______(insert your name of preference). iCCup has been very generous for "letting" us use them like a dirty rug, but ISL would only benefit them with or without pension. Yet two vessels have been cut from the slow-beating heart belonging to BW.
The words "thank you" are not enough to express my gratitude towards you, Dave. Well at least not without a proper feminine-alcoholic-umbrella drink in your hands. We've had our ups and downs as a dysfunctional gay couple fighting over our "His" and "His" towels. Hahaha, I know this isn't the end but rather a new beginning for you. I wish you the best in your future endeavors with the world. You have been an amazing leader (LRM), a sick innovating gamer, a remarkable tournament organizer, an insightful collaboration partner, a powerful member of the community, as well as a fantastic "BBF or BFF" / Cookie Monster (friend, buddy, pal, guy).
Well, although it is unpleasant for the iCCup Admins to be berated, it is obvious that someone is at fault here, and it is possibly a certain admin's fault.
Personally, I believe the fact that he won't discuss why he was banned besides given a vague description seems to point towards the fact that he is doubtful that the reason he banned LRM)Game is solid ground for a complete ban.
Dave, I'm 100% glad I could contribute to ISL2 and your last hurrah. I had really hoped to be a bigger investor in the forever hopeful 3rd ISL but seeing as that is not going to happen I must thank you for your help here. Since SC2 and the slow death of BW you were the life blood of foreign BW. I hope someone steps up in your place as best they can and I also hope ICCup can be a little more lenient. I bid you farewell and hope you put as much effort into your life outside of BW as you did in BW.
congratz to iccup for banning one of the very few people that kept bw alive in a very dark time. very very solid work. keep up the silence as well and be ashamed in it. retards.
all this iccup drama is entirely game's fault and he brought it on himself. If a normal person was running ISL (ie. someone who doesn't try to make money off reps or trash talk the iccup staff and community members), none of these problems would exist. Iccup is a great service, how can you expect the staff to support someone who shows no appreciation? seriously, consider it from their perspective.
game ran the tourny from start to finish, but I imagine it wouldve been alot more successful without the induced problems. Now that iccup.noone took over, ISL2 is looking very promising.
On July 01 2011 05:27 Assault_1 wrote: all this iccup drama is entirely game's fault and he brought it on himself. If a normal person was running ISL (ie. someone who doesn't try to make money off reps or trash talk the iccup staff and community members), none of these problems would exist. Iccup is a great service, how can you expect the staff to support someone who shows no appreciation? seriously, consider it from their perspective.
game ran the tourny from start to finish, but I imagine it wouldve been alot more successful without the induced problems. Now that iccup.noone took over, ISL2 is looking very promising.
The fault lies with both parties, also Noone is no longer an admin.
I'm not a business person, nor proficient in English. Yes, I'm still a fob.
But when Game contact me about ISL2, I was very excited. He told me to work on a video (which I worked on right away), while he tried to get huge sponsors for the tournament.
Few weeks later, my video is finished, yet I did not have a logo/sponsor to advertise ISL2. In fact, the video that you see in the main page has been sitting on my desktop for few weeks without the text at the end of the video; I was eagerly waiting for the news of 'sponsors'. Few days later, I get contacted by Game.
He's been trying very hard to get some huge corporations into this scene. Which corporation? I don't know all of them, but for proof, I know one of the corporations.
Remember TSL? DOWN DOWN DOWN? Well, Game wanted Razer back in the scene.
He wanted me to proof read his letter to the company. Though well written, I was not the person to correct/judge since my English SUCKS. And yet, it was a good proposal.
Razer eventually denied the proposal and Game moved on; however, it shows how much Game wanted this ISL2 to succeed. Luckily, Kaal decided to sponsor this upcoming ISL2 (THANK YOU VERY MUCH SIR!), and we have this.
Game is BM at times, but he's an innovator in foreign BW scene. Drama or not, bashing or not, look at where ISL is right now: people are excited for it, waiting to play in the ladder stages, and we have many people working behind the scenes for ISL2 (slightly bigger than ISL1 if I'm correct).
If you want to bash at Game for his excessive BM towards iCCup admin, feel free to do so, because Game can't erase what he has done in the past. However, if you overlook what he has said during this unnecessary drama, he's the goddamn GOMTV (BW era) of foreign BW scene. He's been working hard to make an amazing league, yet an outside factor forced him out of the scene.
I wish Game best of his luck in the future. However, no matter what you do, Game, keep in mind what you have started in the foreign BW scene, and don't forget to check out ISL2 time to time. I'm going to miss you.
On April 27 2011 01:07 Game wrote: .... when iCCup was being retarded (status quo).
Save this quote as answer to your future question.
It's official, Game is like Archie... What mischief will he get into next?
Damn bro, you stealing my lines O,o... But it's sort of the truth, as he had good intentions his methods were not the best. The admins decisions are pretty rash, these guys should have just worked something out.
So who runs LRM now? or is everyone going to just leave the team...?
I can say from first hand experience that none poored as much heart and soul into SC1 than LRM)Game. I have quit playing Iccup due to Iccup admins faggotry. It is hilarious 1/4 of Clans will be kicked out of Clan League due to inactivity this season. Pretty fucking obvious the reason is people getting tired of Iccup admin abuse. Paladin showing us how similar he is to his Nazi ancestors. I'll be glad when I get temp-banned for this post by none other than one of the Teamliquid forum moderators who are Iccup staff.
wow i just foundout my mom got hit on foot by a car seriously...time to go.
On July 01 2011 07:51 OneTrickPony wrote: I can say from first hand experience that none poored as much heart and soul into SC1 than LRM)Game. I have quit playing Iccup due to Iccup admins faggotry. It is hilarious 1/4 of Clans will be kicked out of Clan League due to inactivity this season. Pretty fucking obvious the reason is people getting tired of Iccup admin abuse. Paladin showing us how similar he is to his Nazi ancestors.
hmmm.i think u are wrong with paladin,i think paladin is a good admin,and he try to do the best for iccup,but any can type whats he think so,anyway people always remember the start of all and lrm)game do this,im sure we will have ISL 3
On July 01 2011 05:27 Assault_1 wrote: all this iccup drama is entirely game's fault and he brought it on himself. If a normal person was running ISL (ie. someone who doesn't try to make money off reps or trash talk the iccup staff and community members), none of these problems would exist. Iccup is a great service, how can you expect the staff to support someone who shows no appreciation? seriously, consider it from their perspective.
game ran the tourny from start to finish, but I imagine it wouldve been alot more successful without the induced problems. Now that iccup.noone took over, ISL2 is looking very promising.
He did bring it upon himself, but if you can't over look a little bit of bm, then you're really not mature enough to be making an opinion on the conflicts between Game and iCCup.
Secondly, he didn't try to make money for himself off ISL replays. And even if he was, iCCup does not own anything legally, if he owed money to anyone for what he did, it was blizzard. Not iCCup, the admins behind it actually agree with this, but still impose their shit because "He has no more right to it than we do"... Its like they didn't read the OP at all, 90% going towards tournaments that will benefit their server? How much more of a royalty do you want?
And as a final point, whether they like Game or not, they should have realized that he was breathing more life into their dying server than anyone else. Holding a grudge to the point of banning your biggest asset? It was clearly well thought out.
On July 01 2011 07:51 OneTrickPony wrote: I can say from first hand experience that none poored as much heart and soul into SC1 than LRM)Game. I have quit playing Iccup due to Iccup admins faggotry. It is hilarious 1/4 of Clans will be kicked out of Clan League due to inactivity this season. Pretty fucking obvious the reason is people getting tired of Iccup admin abuse. Paladin showing us how similar he is to his Nazi ancestors.
hmmm.i think u are wrong with paladin,i think paladin is a good admin,and he try to do the best for iccup,but any can type whats he think so,anyway people always remember the start of all and lrm)game do this,im sure we will have ISL 3
If it's iCCup run, we might see another great tour with the success of the King Of Korea tournament which brought all the Koreans back to iCCup. (Note: Was a total flop)
God, people should stop talking about selling replays. Nobody was forcing you to buy them, and if you did, 90% of the money spent was going to the tournament. At best, Game won enough money to buy a beer. Big fucking deal.
As a BW fan and a happy spectator of the first ISL, i wanted to thank you for all the hard work of organizing the tournament. You were the pumping heart of the competitive foreign scene. Thanks again, and i'm deeply sorry for this situation. Good luck.
On July 01 2011 01:52 Lightwip wrote: Considering that Game sells replays, I think I'd rather wait until an Iccup staff member comments before making my judgments on this business. I can't deny that they're known for heavy abuse though.
I've been keeping up, chatting with the admins, I can give some views on it that were expressed, but I wont give out specific names just for their own protection since if they didn't fear the ban hammer, they'd have already posted(for some of them).
He also expressed that he was displeased that the decisions of one man were put on all their shoulders and it was unfair for the community to treat them as so. (the one person obviously referring to paladin)
Another I was asked not to quote any of his lines, so I will attempt to summarize what he said. He voiced his malcontent related to Paladin making the whole team look bad. He also says that none of the other admins below Paladin have really taken any action that deserves the disrespect that they get, none of them were involved in the decisions. He asks to not be criticized for what he hasn't done. He wants to do positive things for the bw scene and he's not like the stereotype that we paint about admins.
Another said "I really don't care", "even though I am your friend if you keep BMing admins I will kick your ass"
Another said(paraphrased) I can understand where you're coming from, however Game was on good terms with iCCup during ISL1 until he started openly trashing the iCCup team on stream. He stated that this kind of conduct was really unwarranted as iCCup gave him full support for the tournament as they do with all other private events. iCCup did not take away his tournament, Paladin just refused that it be held on iCCup and also offered terms for the tournament to be held there "game not being the leader". He can't speak for the origins of the disputes between iCCup and Game as I am not informed on that but, iCCup rules state that bm against admins is prohibited and in that sense Game broke the law of iCCup therefore deserves a punishment and he should not receive special treatment. When asked about the numerous admins who have broken the bm laws of iCCup, he stated that he could not speak for the other admins and says he assumes they have been dealt with accordingly. He also says when asked if retaliation bm is okay that some people might view warranted bm to be okay as I personally had stated that retaliation bm is still bm and is still against the rules however he does repeat that he can not speak for the rest of the staff.
For any admin who does not want to expose themselves, when asked if you talked to me, simply say "no". Although personally I think it would be a shame to do so being as every caring voice for the community helps.
Edit: I have more from other admins, however, I do not feel like looking back for the proof in case I ever have to pull it out also, I think this proves that the iccup admins really have quite different views from each other.
Many admins do have good intentions, I'd like to point that out...
On July 01 2011 09:20 Waxangel wrote: Deleted the quotes from the ICCUP staff forums. Don't post them again. Still deciding what to do with this post.
I don't know how you came to that decision. I mean I see the logical view that iCCup is private and that they maintain the right to a _private_ forum. On the other hand, it's a matter that is user specific and actually about _me_. In any legal court, information about a specified party (Edit: that can be used as evidence for a conviction) or case cannot be kept from either side.
However, you are an admin and your decision stays. With that said, may I then post PMs in place of that as an explanation of one of the main factors of my retirement, and or other non-opinionated strictly copy/paste information?
If not, it's fine. The origin of this thread has nothing to do with iCCup, just that their actions are consequential to the situation. Therefore my view on the action taken by you really does not affect the thread, as my sole purpose is to make the community aware of my retirement so I don't look like a coward who made promises he can't/won't keep.
In any legal court, information about a specified party cannot be kept from either side.
I'm not sure what you were trying to say here, but this is definitely not true in any sense. You have no claim to rights over discussions between legal opposition behind closed doors. In fact, there are specific laws to keep things like that private.
On July 01 2011 10:03 Eywa- wrote: Was having a conversation with Masterbreti in admin channel, Gecko came in and started attacking me because I was talking in the channel, so I'm like "I'm not bming anyone". And he's like no in fact you wont be talking to anyone today. Chat bans me, no reason for the chat ban, just out of spite.
man u want be lrm)game 2.0 ? stop provoced admins., i really start hate u and ur comments
On July 01 2011 10:03 Eywa- wrote: Was having a conversation with Masterbreti in admin channel, Gecko came in and started attacking me because I was talking in the channel, so I'm like "I'm not bming anyone". And he's like no in fact you wont be talking to anyone today. Chat bans me, no reason for the chat ban, just out of spite.
man u want be lrm)game 2.0 ? stop provoced admins., i really start hate u and ur comments
There won't ever be a game 2.0, I don't have enough experience in this stuff to pull together tournaments like Game. Also, thread's not about me, its about Game.
Whatever happened, happened. Things happen for a reason. iCCUP has their points, Game has his. No one is going to win in this battle, it seems. It seems iCCUP's decision is permanent (since IPBans were made).
This is how I see it: If Game wanted to charge for replays, which he indicated to the public on March 31st (as he had created a thread back then saying he could charge for replays), I don't see the big deal. Actually, if anything, it's a good thing. He mentioned that the proceeds would be going to the next big tournament. That's a good thing, isn't it? That means it'd be a bigger tournament, draw more attention, and there would be more Brood War activity. All of this would be taking place on iCCUP; thus, the player activity and popularity of iCCUP would rise. This is a good thing for iCCUP and a good thing for the players participating in the tournament (since the prize pool would be bigger). Not to mention, all the hard work and dedication that goes into running such a big tournament - why not let some of the admins/people working hard take a little share. In the end, they are working for the community, and essentially, with the passion and pose that they ran things, I believe they deserved a little something aside from respect and gratitude.
That leads me to the viewpoint of iCCUP. iCCUP wanted royalty fees since Game was charging for replays and they wanted some share of it, too (I'm not sure if this is exactly what happened since some of those screenshots were unclear). Nonetheless, iCCUP wanted some sort of compensation from ISL. Now, what I have to say about this is that why on earth would iCCUP ever do this? Like I mentioned in the previous paragraph, the "donation" (in a sense), from the purchasing of replays was going to make a bigger and better tournament which, in return, would make a bigger and better iCCUP. iCCUP would have gotten more attention and, I'm sure iCCUP earns money through ads and whatnot; thus, with more player activity, they'd be earning more revenue anyways. And since Game would have been bringing such activity to iCCUP, why would they care? They should've been happy about it. And then, I'm unclear of what took place about Game flaming them and whatnot, but there was no reason to IPBan the guy who did so much, made iCCUP bigger during the brink of death, etc.
It seems that there was greed and corruption amongst the iCCUP staff. Wanting fees for the work of another was not necessary of iCCUP. Not to mention, it's not like Game pulled that on anyone last second saying he'd charge money for replays. He did this early on (about a month ago). Furthermore, it was for the better of the community as a whole. And since iCCUP does host this server and do a lot for the community, I don't see why they would be against this? They should have wanted to join Game and his endeavors and aim to revive a community we once had.
Either way, what's done is done now. There was some sort miscommunication, greed, corruption, etc going on and it seems that the final cuts have been made. The only thing that can be done now is if iCCUP realizes what idiocy they have committed...
All in all - great work, Game. We were friends for a while on B.net for the last few years, played games together, and had some talks. Best of luck; and we all know you were doing this for the community and no other selfish reason. Some people just won't understand and let their power trips get to them. Can't do anything about it, man.
On July 01 2011 11:01 ammeL wrote: Whatever happened, happened. Things happen for a reason. iCCUP has their points, Game has his. No one is going to win in this battle, it seems. It seems iCCUP's decision is permanent (since IPBans were made).
This is how I see it: If Game wanted to charge for replays, which he indicated to the public on March 31st (as he had created a thread back then saying he could charge for replays), I don't see the big deal. Actually, if anything, it's a good thing. He mentioned that the proceeds would be going to the next big tournament. That's a good thing, isn't it? That means it'd be a bigger tournament, draw more attention, and there would be more Brood War activity. All of this would be taking place on iCCUP; thus, the player activity and popularity of iCCUP would rise. This is a good thing for iCCUP and a good thing for the players participating in the tournament (since the prize pool would be bigger). Not to mention, all the hard work and dedication that goes into running such a big tournament - why not let some of the admins/people working hard take a little share. In the end, they are working for the community, and essentially, with the passion and pose that they ran things, I believe they deserved a little something aside from respect and gratitude.
That leads me to the viewpoint of iCCUP. iCCUP wanted royalty fees since Game was charging for replays and they wanted some share of it, too (I'm not sure if this is exactly what happened since some of those screenshots were unclear). Nonetheless, iCCUP wanted some sort of compensation from ISL. Now, what I have to say about this is that why on earth would iCCUP ever do this? Like I mentioned in the previous paragraph, the "donation" (in a sense), from the purchasing of replays was going to make a bigger and better tournament which, in return, would make a bigger and better iCCUP. iCCUP would have gotten more attention and, I'm sure iCCUP earns money through ads and whatnot; thus, with more player activity, they'd be earning more revenue anyways. And since Game would have been bringing such activity to iCCUP, why would they care? They should've been happy about it. And then, I'm unclear of what took place about Game flaming them and whatnot, but there was no reason to IPBan the guy who did so much, made iCCUP bigger during the brink of death, etc.
It seems that there was greed and corruption amongst the iCCUP staff. Wanting fees for the work of another was not necessary of iCCUP. Not to mention, it's not like Game pulled that on anyone last second saying he'd charge money for replays. He did this early on (about a month ago). Furthermore, it was for the better of the community as a whole. And since iCCUP does host this server and do a lot for the community, I don't see why they would be against this? They should have wanted to join Game and his endeavors and aim to revive a community we once had.
Either way, what's done is done now. There was some sort miscommunication, greed, corruption, etc going on and it seems that the final cuts have been made. The only thing that can be done now is if iCCUP realizes what idiocy they have committed...
All in all - great work, Game. We were friends for a while on B.net for the last few years, played games together, and had some talks. Best of luck; and we all know you were doing this for the community and no other selfish reason. Some people just won't understand and let their power trips get to them. Can't do anything about it, man.
Best wishes, be safe, and hope to see you around.
When I saw your name before I read the wall of text, I was like "ut oh". But that was an educated post. Also, thanks for your wishes... and I love your sig lol.
On July 01 2011 01:52 Lightwip wrote: Considering that Game sells replays, I think I'd rather wait until an Iccup staff member comments before making my judgments on this business. I can't deny that they're known for heavy abuse though.
I've been keeping up, chatting with the admins, I can give some views on it that were expressed, but I wont give out specific names just for their own protection since if they didn't fear the ban hammer, they'd have already posted(for some of them).
He also expressed that he was displeased that the decisions of one man were put on all their shoulders and it was unfair for the community to treat them as so. (the one person obviously referring to paladin)
Another I was asked not to quote any of his lines, so I will attempt to summarize what he said. He voiced his malcontent related to Paladin making the whole team look bad. He also says that none of the other admins below Paladin have really taken any action that deserves the disrespect that they get, none of them were involved in the decisions. He asks to not be criticized for what he hasn't done. He wants to do positive things for the bw scene and he's not like the stereotype that we paint about admins.
Another said "I really don't care", "even though I am your friend if you keep BMing admins I will kick your ass"
Another said(paraphrased) I can understand where you're coming from, however Game was on good terms with iCCup during ISL1 until he started openly trashing the iCCup team on stream. He stated that this kind of conduct was really unwarranted as iCCup gave him full support for the tournament as they do with all other private events. iCCup did not take away his tournament, Paladin just refused that it be held on iCCup and also offered terms for the tournament to be held there "game not being the leader". He can't speak for the origins of the disputes between iCCup and Game as I am not informed on that but, iCCup rules state that bm against admins is prohibited and in that sense Game broke the law of iCCup therefore deserves a punishment and he should not receive special treatment. When asked about the numerous admins who have broken the bm laws of iCCup, he stated that he could not speak for the other admins and says he assumes they have been dealt with accordingly. He also says when asked if retaliation bm is okay that some people might view warranted bm to be okay as I personally had stated that retaliation bm is still bm and is still against the rules however he does repeat that he can not speak for the rest of the staff.
For any admin who does not want to expose themselves, when asked if you talked to me, simply say "no". Although personally I think it would be a shame to do so being as every caring voice for the community helps.
Edit: I have more from other admins, however, I do not feel like looking back for the proof in case I ever have to pull it out also, I think this proves that the iccup admins really have quite different views from each other.
Many admins do have good intentions, I'd like to point that out...
They can look up the chat logs you know.. this might result in yet more travesties by the Iccup authorities.
On July 01 2011 01:52 Lightwip wrote: Considering that Game sells replays, I think I'd rather wait until an Iccup staff member comments before making my judgments on this business. I can't deny that they're known for heavy abuse though.
I've been keeping up, chatting with the admins, I can give some views on it that were expressed, but I wont give out specific names just for their own protection since if they didn't fear the ban hammer, they'd have already posted(for some of them).
He also expressed that he was displeased that the decisions of one man were put on all their shoulders and it was unfair for the community to treat them as so. (the one person obviously referring to paladin)
Another I was asked not to quote any of his lines, so I will attempt to summarize what he said. He voiced his malcontent related to Paladin making the whole team look bad. He also says that none of the other admins below Paladin have really taken any action that deserves the disrespect that they get, none of them were involved in the decisions. He asks to not be criticized for what he hasn't done. He wants to do positive things for the bw scene and he's not like the stereotype that we paint about admins.
Another said "I really don't care", "even though I am your friend if you keep BMing admins I will kick your ass"
Another said(paraphrased) I can understand where you're coming from, however Game was on good terms with iCCup during ISL1 until he started openly trashing the iCCup team on stream. He stated that this kind of conduct was really unwarranted as iCCup gave him full support for the tournament as they do with all other private events. iCCup did not take away his tournament, Paladin just refused that it be held on iCCup and also offered terms for the tournament to be held there "game not being the leader". He can't speak for the origins of the disputes between iCCup and Game as I am not informed on that but, iCCup rules state that bm against admins is prohibited and in that sense Game broke the law of iCCup therefore deserves a punishment and he should not receive special treatment. When asked about the numerous admins who have broken the bm laws of iCCup, he stated that he could not speak for the other admins and says he assumes they have been dealt with accordingly. He also says when asked if retaliation bm is okay that some people might view warranted bm to be okay as I personally had stated that retaliation bm is still bm and is still against the rules however he does repeat that he can not speak for the rest of the staff.
For any admin who does not want to expose themselves, when asked if you talked to me, simply say "no". Although personally I think it would be a shame to do so being as every caring voice for the community helps.
Edit: I have more from other admins, however, I do not feel like looking back for the proof in case I ever have to pull it out also, I think this proves that the iccup admins really have quite different views from each other.
Many admins do have good intentions, I'd like to point that out...
They can look up the chat logs you know.. this might result in yet more travesties by the Iccup authorities.
Derp.. Its whispers and I doubt they'll ever find an indirect quote.
We will see. thuough i know of an PvpGN server where the admins sniff through these logs and ban people as they see fit so.. our would be admin may be caught with his pants down.
On April 27 2011 01:07 Game wrote: .... when iCCup was being retarded (status quo).
Save this quote as answer to your future question.
It's official, Game is like Archie... What mischief will he get into next?
Damn bro, you stealing my lines O,o... But it's sort of the truth, as he had good intentions his methods were not the best. The admins decisions are pretty rash, these guys should have just worked something out.
So who runs LRM now? or is everyone going to just leave the team...?
In the OP I state that at the end of iCCupCL/BWCL, jinu and nOoNe will take over Los Reyes del Mambo.
I seriously have not seen a thread with this much drama in a long time, Game has done A LOT for the community, but....man no offense or anything, but you are seriously an attention whore, like seriously I thought I was bad, but you take the cake. You will return to brood war too, just wait and see.
I think there is way to much unnecessary drama in this thread, it got totally derailed from you announcing your retirement to the assumptions and hate about iCCup, people are getting way to worked up over this, even posting screen shots.
This is just my opinion, we've actually probably never gotten along , but you were a figurehead of the BW community for some time now and a lot of people appreciate the work you've done. GL in you're future, but seriously take a chill pill.
On July 01 2011 13:40 GGzerG wrote: I seriously have not seen a thread with this much drama in a long time, Game has done A LOT for the community, but....man no offense or anything, but you are seriously an attention whore, like seriously I thought I was bad, but you take the cake. You will return to brood war too, just wait and see.
I think there is way to much unnecessary drama in this thread, it got totally derailed from you announcing your retirement to the assumptions and hate about iCCup, people are getting way to worked up over this, even posting screen shots.
This is just my opinion, we've actually probably never gotten along , but you were a figurehead of the BW community for some time now and a lot of people appreciate the work you've done. GL in you're future, but seriously take a chill pill.
Looks like you're the one that needs a chill pill.
What? lol , I wasn't trying to be hostile, was actually trying to add some humor, yea that is a lot of drama there in that link, looks like a lot of not fun that I don't want to engage in.
EDIT : Sayle banned for abuse....? wtf is going on.. T_T
On July 01 2011 11:01 ammeL wrote: Whatever happened, happened. Things happen for a reason. iCCUP has their points, Game has his. No one is going to win in this battle, it seems. It seems iCCUP's decision is permanent (since IPBans were made).
This is how I see it: If Game wanted to charge for replays, which he indicated to the public on March 31st (as he had created a thread back then saying he could charge for replays), I don't see the big deal. Actually, if anything, it's a good thing. He mentioned that the proceeds would be going to the next big tournament. That's a good thing, isn't it? That means it'd be a bigger tournament, draw more attention, and there would be more Brood War activity. All of this would be taking place on iCCUP; thus, the player activity and popularity of iCCUP would rise. This is a good thing for iCCUP and a good thing for the players participating in the tournament (since the prize pool would be bigger). Not to mention, all the hard work and dedication that goes into running such a big tournament - why not let some of the admins/people working hard take a little share. In the end, they are working for the community, and essentially, with the passion and pose that they ran things, I believe they deserved a little something aside from respect and gratitude.
That leads me to the viewpoint of iCCUP. iCCUP wanted royalty fees since Game was charging for replays and they wanted some share of it, too (I'm not sure if this is exactly what happened since some of those screenshots were unclear). Nonetheless, iCCUP wanted some sort of compensation from ISL. Now, what I have to say about this is that why on earth would iCCUP ever do this? Like I mentioned in the previous paragraph, the "donation" (in a sense), from the purchasing of replays was going to make a bigger and better tournament which, in return, would make a bigger and better iCCUP. iCCUP would have gotten more attention and, I'm sure iCCUP earns money through ads and whatnot; thus, with more player activity, they'd be earning more revenue anyways. And since Game would have been bringing such activity to iCCUP, why would they care? They should've been happy about it. And then, I'm unclear of what took place about Game flaming them and whatnot, but there was no reason to IPBan the guy who did so much, made iCCUP bigger during the brink of death, etc.
It seems that there was greed and corruption amongst the iCCUP staff. Wanting fees for the work of another was not necessary of iCCUP. Not to mention, it's not like Game pulled that on anyone last second saying he'd charge money for replays. He did this early on (about a month ago). Furthermore, it was for the better of the community as a whole. And since iCCUP does host this server and do a lot for the community, I don't see why they would be against this? They should have wanted to join Game and his endeavors and aim to revive a community we once had.
Either way, what's done is done now. There was some sort miscommunication, greed, corruption, etc going on and it seems that the final cuts have been made. The only thing that can be done now is if iCCUP realizes what idiocy they have committed...
All in all - great work, Game. We were friends for a while on B.net for the last few years, played games together, and had some talks. Best of luck; and we all know you were doing this for the community and no other selfish reason. Some people just won't understand and let their power trips get to them. Can't do anything about it, man.
Best wishes, be safe, and hope to see you around.
When I saw your name before I read the wall of text, I was like "ut oh". But that was an educated post. Also, thanks for your wishes... and I love your sig lol.
Yeah, if I want to be a troll/total BM prick, I could. But, in this case, I think the wrong thing was done. Good luck. But, don't let this whole thing blow up too much. What's done is done, nothing you can do. In the end, it really is a game (and a game that is unfortunately dying). So don't take this too seriously.
You gotta admit, law has to be established - and the primary means for achieving that is swinging the ban hammer. As Sayle himself likes to say, Paladin bringin' down the ban hammer! Things have got somewhat out of line, and to solve problems, enforcement of conditions established by the authorities is necessary.
As is done, so too is just, and is law for the players on Iccup, to follow the conditions enforced. And to those finding themselves at the bad end of the hammer - such is life, and though rule breaking is avoidable, the negotiation for punishment remains dishonourable and frowned upon by self respecting adults. One would take punishment like a man, respect authorities, and live with reality- It is a kid's move to trample on one's feet and yell over unfair treatment, when the defining condition of fairness rests in the very thing that enforces it, which results in the paradoxical claim of the would-be victim.
but seriously. no sayle means i wont be playing or watching ISL2. Sayle is by far the best caster in broodwar right now (doing live stuff, i still love nuke equally) but yeah...seriously, what the fuck.
On July 01 2011 14:35 Kiante wrote: wait she was 15? sayle you dog.
but seriously. no sayle means i wont be playing or watching ISL2. Sayle is by far the best caster in broodwar right now (doing live stuff, i still love nuke equally) but yeah...seriously, what the fuck.
Completely agreed, I was considering making an ISL2 account and seeing how far up I could ladder, but no more. I'm never logging into the server again.
LOL i love how the thread goes from games retirement to sayles 15yr old gf.
this is fucking terrible news though, specially if it means sayle isnt casting ISL anymore? im pretty sure he will, because who the fuck else is going to do it? What the fuck iccup?? what the fuck did sayle do rofl
Sayle was banned too. I also love how the Iccup stuff dropped the news than Sayle's girlfriend (?) is 15 (?). Frankly, Paladin is showing how despicable he is, using personal information to distort the debate even more.
Aparantly she's not 15 by the way, for anyone thinking that sayle is a pedo. its just a line she uses to get losers (in this case paladin) to stop harassing her.
About three months ago, I left the ICCup admin team. Shortly thereafter, I got into a relationship with a 'female admin' (the ICCup announcement left her unnamed so I shall do the same). At some point, she decided to share her passwords with me, which included the password to her admin account. Being curious about what internal discussions the admin team was having in the face of all the recent events (high-level admins leaving, vTv CL issue, ISL2, etc), I used her account to regularly browse the admin-only forums on iccup.com. I never logged on to the server with that account nor did I use any of its 'admin powers'. I simply observed what was going on behind the scenes. Make no mistake though, I did break the rules. Sharing admin accounts is forbidden, and I knew that when I started using it. I won't make any excuses. I will say, however, that I was NOT the one who leaked that thread from the admins forum, which I believe is what Paladin originally suspected. I made that quite clear to him in our discussion as well.
Regarding current (and future) BW events, I don't think too much has changed. ISL2 will be played on West after the ladder stage, so I can still cast that. The Ribbon Classic is still being discussed, but we could just move that to West as well. I believe the Gambit Cup is also going to be played on West. To be honest, I haven't casted an ICCup event since I left the team, so as long as any future organizers are fine with hosting their events on other servers, I don't think there's an issue (besides the fewer number of events due to the loss of Game). I'll just be playing on B-net and Fish from now on
I apologize to the BW community for making this whole situation worse than it already is. I do love this game and I'll continue to do my best keeping the (foreign) scene alive outside of ICCup.
Seriously you guys, are Game and Sayle some sort of fucking god's to you that you worship and adore beyons all reason?! You're worse than Flash/JD fanboys, becuase at least you'd be dissapointed in them if they overtely and openly dissrespected/Broke rules/scanctions. So what, they're populaaaar "fuck the rules they don't apply to them". And you want fair staff with such an unfair mentality yourself?
Anyone ever read the iCCup end user agreement? No, I didn't think so, but by ever using their servers it means you legally agree to the terms therin. Abusers will get banned no matter how popular they are (o hai F91), that doesn't mean I'm happy with Sayle being banned from iCCup, hell I like the guy and think he's quite suited for the role, but he needs to be a bit more responsible in such an important role.
The Ribbon Classic is postponed indefinitely. We're not ready to play on another server right now, and even if we were, I don't want it mired in this kind of drama, so I want to wait until it blows down a bit. We were going to proceed without Game, but losing Game and Sayle at the same time has thrown everything into the air.
I may do an SC2 tournament (alternating between games was always the plan; it has nothing to do with drama) and come back to BW after the dust settles. I may not. Don't know yet.
I'm sorry to everyone who was excited for the tournament.
On July 01 2011 19:05 puppykiller wrote: Omg first Game, now Sayle, whos next... Ribbon?
On July 01 2011 19:28 mansa wrote: Ribbon why not play using hamachi?
We may do something like that eventually, but we can't set something like that up easily with <48 hours notice. Organizing nerds is like herding cats etc.
Also, like I said, I don't want the shadow of drama over it. I sponsored the tournament to bring people together (the Classic is a trial run for a bigger thing, where I had a BW Tournament and an SC2 tournament running concurrently, using BW to SC2 map ports and custom-made SC2 to BW map ports to have both use the "same" map pool as the unifying gimmick), but doing a tournament on another server now makes the subtext of it "Fuck ICCUP", which is kind of the opposite of what I wanted.
I'm not saying I don't want to do the tournament, I just don't want to do it Saturday.
On July 01 2011 19:28 mansa wrote: Ribbon why not play using hamachi?
We may do something like that eventually, but we can't set something like that up easily with <48 hours notice. Organizing nerds is like herding cats etc.
Also, like I said, I don't want the shadow of drama over it. I sponsored the tournament to bring people together (the Classic is a trial run for a bigger thing, where I had a BW Tournament and an SC2 tournament running concurrently, using BW to SC2 map ports and custom-made SC2 to BW map ports to have both use the "same" map pool as the unifying gimmick), but doing a tournament on another server now makes the subtext of it "Fuck ICCUP", which is kind of the opposite of what I wanted.
I'm not saying I don't want to do the tournament, I just don't want to do it Saturday.
whats wrong with a FUCK iccup subtext. really. with everything they've done, i see nothing better to unify the community behind. Play it on west with chaoslauncher. the organisation would be really easy(you email all contestants a download link to chaos, ask them to install. meet on a channel on east/west and host games with #l2).
On July 01 2011 19:26 bITt.mAN wrote: Seriously you guys, are Game and Sayle some sort of fucking god's to you that you worship and adore beyons all reason?! You're worse than Flash/JD fanboys, becuase at least you'd be dissapointed in them if they overtely and openly dissrespected/Broke rules/scanctions. So what, they're populaaaar "fuck the rules they don't apply to them". And you want fair staff with such an unfair mentality yourself?
Anyone ever read the iCCup end user agreement? No, I didn't think so, but by ever using their servers it means you legally agree to the terms therin. Abusers will get banned no matter how popular they are (o hai F91), that doesn't mean I'm happy with Sayle being banned from iCCup, hell I like the guy and think he's quite suited for the role, but he needs to be a bit more responsible in such an important role.
EDIT: Saw Sayle's reply above.
Well said.
Guys, you have to understand ICCups reasoning. Banning Game seems to be harsh but come on he was an aboslute moron to flame everyone of the admins, the Abyss itself and evryone who was argueing against him in a tl-thread. I hoped Game will handle this with dignity but he didnt. He started this thread posting some logs and screenshots that absoltutely dont help to clarify everything that happened in the past. I really think that if Game stayed for some time after his withdrawal from the ISL2 that someday he would eventually be able to work together with iccup. But how Game handled this and how he broke agreement after agreement there was absolutely no way to not ban him. It's a little sad, he was an excellent organizer, but I wont miss his attitude at all.
It's a pity that Sayle got banned though. But you have to understand iccups reasoning here too. After the incident with JoeKim this was the second time someone illegally used an adminaccount in a very short time. Iccup has to show everyone that this is a wrongdoing against almost every elemetary rule at iccup. And in our world especially in the internet you have to punish for wrongdoing :-( I still think that a permanent ban for Sayle is a little too harsh. It's not because Sayle is famous and important for the community. It's because Sayle seemed to not have abused his secret powers, acted honestly all the time, didn't take part in Games excessive BM-sessions and always tried to use diplomacy for the sake of foreign BW. At least that's the impression I got from Sayles posts in the forums and what he said while casting. So please be gracious and give this guy a second chance after a few weeks.
And all you guys who are hating on iccup and Paladin. You're the guys who hate on iccup all the time or are in the inner circle of the Game/JoeKim/Sayle-clique and argue absolutely biased.
Iccup is important for foreign BW. Maybe not for the high competitors. But where else should a chobo or newbie play who doesnt want to get stomped or hacked every time. Where else should a beginner come to if he looks for advisors and practice partners that can communicate wtih him?
On July 01 2011 10:03 Eywa- wrote: Was having a conversation with Masterbreti in admin channel, Gecko came in and started attacking me because I was talking in the channel, so I'm like "I'm not bming anyone". And he's like no in fact you wont be talking to anyone today. Chat bans me, no reason for the chat ban, just out of spite.
man u want be lrm)game 2.0 ? stop provoced admins., i really start hate u and ur comments
All I see you do lately is praise iCCup and their admins as if they were holy saints to bring us the word of the messias. What you are saying in your post right there is that you think it's okay if the iCCup Admins abuse their power like this, but we have to be quiet about it? That's blasphemy, and maybe you've just not had the right experiences yourself yet which blures your eyes.
That Sayle got banned for this is of course a right decision, which every website would have done, and he knows it and admits it, as sad as it is, I personally love his casting alot and think he is a nice guy to talk to, but he knew what he was doing and he knew that he was going to get busted eventually, it's just a matter of time.
Game knew that to some extend, too, with all the incidents he had, it was a matter of time, it was drastic, yes, many actions by iCCup have not been correct, though, no matter how you look at it, some of it isn't even mentioned in any of this threads. Many people's opinions are lonely based on what they were able to get to know from here, while alot more happened, and Game is just one of many who faced such things.
On July 01 2011 10:03 Eywa- wrote: Was having a conversation with Masterbreti in admin channel, Gecko came in and started attacking me because I was talking in the channel, so I'm like "I'm not bming anyone". And he's like no in fact you wont be talking to anyone today. Chat bans me, no reason for the chat ban, just out of spite.
man u want be lrm)game 2.0 ? stop provoced admins., i really start hate u and ur comments
All I see you do lately is praise iCCup and their admins as if they were holy saints to bring us the word of the messias. What you are saying in your post right there is that you think it's okay if the iCCup Admins abuse their power like this, but we have to be quiet about it? That's blasphemy, and maybe you've just not had the right experiences yourself yet which blures your eyes.
That Sayle got banned for this is of course a right decision, which every website would have done, and he knows it and admits it, as sad as it is, I personally love his casting alot and think he is a nice guy to talk to, but he knew what he was doing and he knew that he was going to get busted eventually, it's just a matter of time.
Game knew that to some extend, too, with all the incidents he had, it was a matter of time, it was drastic, yes, many actions by iCCup have not been correct, though, no matter how you look at it, some of it isn't even mentioned in any of this threads. Many people's opinions are lonely based on what they were able to get to know from here, while alot more happened, and Game is just one of many who faced such things.
imo.paladin is proly the best head admin that iccup,and he start a project 1.defend the new generation of players(noobs) 2.He dont care who is who,u broke rules get BAN! i respect this, 3.Where is the power abue by him ?, i like sayle cast too,who no ? but this not mean he can spy admin archives and tell all to game and check the msg of locked account,i bet he do this. and take screens.for much that u like those guys help bw community his personal fight with iccup destroy all too,if u think iccup is a shit just dont join,go fish or brain,I love iccup and i love bw,i dont join in personal fight of game vs iccup and the new asshole eywa that think he is somethng here,.....he is another stupid wit not brain that cant think by his self,anyway gl this meatball on his retirement
On July 01 2011 10:03 Eywa- wrote: Was having a conversation with Masterbreti in admin channel, Gecko came in and started attacking me because I was talking in the channel, so I'm like "I'm not bming anyone". And he's like no in fact you wont be talking to anyone today. Chat bans me, no reason for the chat ban, just out of spite.
man u want be lrm)game 2.0 ? stop provoced admins., i really start hate u and ur comments
All I see you do lately is praise iCCup and their admins as if they were holy saints to bring us the word of the messias. What you are saying in your post right there is that you think it's okay if the iCCup Admins abuse their power like this, but we have to be quiet about it? That's blasphemy, and maybe you've just not had the right experiences yourself yet which blures your eyes.
That Sayle got banned for this is of course a right decision, which every website would have done, and he knows it and admits it, as sad as it is, I personally love his casting alot and think he is a nice guy to talk to, but he knew what he was doing and he knew that he was going to get busted eventually, it's just a matter of time.
Game knew that to some extend, too, with all the incidents he had, it was a matter of time, it was drastic, yes, many actions by iCCup have not been correct, though, no matter how you look at it, some of it isn't even mentioned in any of this threads. Many people's opinions are lonely based on what they were able to get to know from here, while alot more happened, and Game is just one of many who faced such things.
imo.paladin is proly the best head admin that iccup,and he start a project 1.defend the new generation of players(noobs) 2.He dont care who is who,u broke rules get BAN! i respect this, 3.Where is the power abue by him ?, i like sayle cast too,who no ? but this not mean he can spy admin archives and tell all to game and check the msg of locked account,i bet he do this. and take screens.for much that u like those guys help bw community his personal fight with iccup destroy all too,if u think iccup is a shit just dont join,go fish or brain,I love iccup and i love bw,i dont join in personal fight of game vs iccup and the new asshole eywa that think he is somethng here,.....he is another stupid wit not brain that cant think by his self,anyway gl this meatball on his retirement
In retort. lets think about what was going on pre-paladin.
We had many tournaments running, good casting going every weeklend, lots of money being injected into the scene.
On July 01 2011 10:03 Eywa- wrote: Was having a conversation with Masterbreti in admin channel, Gecko came in and started attacking me because I was talking in the channel, so I'm like "I'm not bming anyone". And he's like no in fact you wont be talking to anyone today. Chat bans me, no reason for the chat ban, just out of spite.
man u want be lrm)game 2.0 ? stop provoced admins., i really start hate u and ur comments
All I see you do lately is praise iCCup and their admins as if they were holy saints to bring us the word of the messias. What you are saying in your post right there is that you think it's okay if the iCCup Admins abuse their power like this, but we have to be quiet about it? That's blasphemy, and maybe you've just not had the right experiences yourself yet which blures your eyes.
That Sayle got banned for this is of course a right decision, which every website would have done, and he knows it and admits it, as sad as it is, I personally love his casting alot and think he is a nice guy to talk to, but he knew what he was doing and he knew that he was going to get busted eventually, it's just a matter of time.
Game knew that to some extend, too, with all the incidents he had, it was a matter of time, it was drastic, yes, many actions by iCCup have not been correct, though, no matter how you look at it, some of it isn't even mentioned in any of this threads. Many people's opinions are lonely based on what they were able to get to know from here, while alot more happened, and Game is just one of many who faced such things.
imo.paladin is proly the best head admin that iccup,and he start a project 1.defend the new generation of players(noobs) 2.He dont care who is who,u broke rules get BAN! i respect this, 3.Where is the power abue by him ?, i like sayle cast too,who no ? but this not mean he can spy admin archives and tell all to game and check the msg of locked account,i bet he do this. and take screens.for much that u like those guys help bw community his personal fight with iccup destroy all too,if u think iccup is a shit just dont join,go fish or brain,I love iccup and i love bw,i dont join in personal fight of game vs iccup and the new asshole eywa that think he is somethng here,.....he is another stupid wit not brain that cant think by his self,anyway gl this meatball on his retirement
In retort. lets think about what was going on pre-paladin.
We had many tournaments running, good casting going every weeklend, lots of money being injected into the scene.
post paladin: everything is turning to shit.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
if ur president made ur country in the shit u agree ?,is the same kiante,
On July 02 2011 00:48 dRaW wrote: This thread is super derailed, so I feel less bad about this... Where does everyone meet on Fish/West?
we all could just move to op teamliquid ?
I agree lets start up op teamliquid on fish. note about fish: if u dont use your account for 7(maybe less) days it gets deleted. Lets get in the channel and start helping each other hit the 30 games for laddering!
On July 01 2011 10:03 Eywa- wrote: Was having a conversation with Masterbreti in admin channel, Gecko came in and started attacking me because I was talking in the channel, so I'm like "I'm not bming anyone". And he's like no in fact you wont be talking to anyone today. Chat bans me, no reason for the chat ban, just out of spite.
man u want be lrm)game 2.0 ? stop provoced admins., i really start hate u and ur comments
All I see you do lately is praise iCCup and their admins as if they were holy saints to bring us the word of the messias. What you are saying in your post right there is that you think it's okay if the iCCup Admins abuse their power like this, but we have to be quiet about it? That's blasphemy, and maybe you've just not had the right experiences yourself yet which blures your eyes.
That Sayle got banned for this is of course a right decision, which every website would have done, and he knows it and admits it, as sad as it is, I personally love his casting alot and think he is a nice guy to talk to, but he knew what he was doing and he knew that he was going to get busted eventually, it's just a matter of time.
Game knew that to some extend, too, with all the incidents he had, it was a matter of time, it was drastic, yes, many actions by iCCup have not been correct, though, no matter how you look at it, some of it isn't even mentioned in any of this threads. Many people's opinions are lonely based on what they were able to get to know from here, while alot more happened, and Game is just one of many who faced such things.
imo.paladin is proly the best head admin that iccup,and he start a project 1.defend the new generation of players(noobs) 2.He dont care who is who,u broke rules get BAN! i respect this, 3.Where is the power abue by him ?, i like sayle cast too,who no ? but this not mean he can spy admin archives and tell all to game and check the msg of locked account,i bet he do this. and take screens.for much that u like those guys help bw community his personal fight with iccup destroy all too,if u think iccup is a shit just dont join,go fish or brain,I love iccup and i love bw,i dont join in personal fight of game vs iccup and the new asshole eywa that think he is somethng here,.....he is another stupid wit not brain that cant think by his self,anyway gl this meatball on his retirement
In retort. lets think about what was going on pre-paladin.
We had many tournaments running, good casting going every weeklend, lots of money being injected into the scene.
post paladin: everything is turning to shit.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
if ur president made ur country in the shit u agree ?,is the same kiante,
i dont really understand your question. but if my country was going in the shitty, i would definetly blame the leader. Its their responsibility.
On July 01 2011 10:03 Eywa- wrote: Was having a conversation with Masterbreti in admin channel, Gecko came in and started attacking me because I was talking in the channel, so I'm like "I'm not bming anyone". And he's like no in fact you wont be talking to anyone today. Chat bans me, no reason for the chat ban, just out of spite.
man u want be lrm)game 2.0 ? stop provoced admins., i really start hate u and ur comments
All I see you do lately is praise iCCup and their admins as if they were holy saints to bring us the word of the messias. What you are saying in your post right there is that you think it's okay if the iCCup Admins abuse their power like this, but we have to be quiet about it? That's blasphemy, and maybe you've just not had the right experiences yourself yet which blures your eyes.
That Sayle got banned for this is of course a right decision, which every website would have done, and he knows it and admits it, as sad as it is, I personally love his casting alot and think he is a nice guy to talk to, but he knew what he was doing and he knew that he was going to get busted eventually, it's just a matter of time.
Game knew that to some extend, too, with all the incidents he had, it was a matter of time, it was drastic, yes, many actions by iCCup have not been correct, though, no matter how you look at it, some of it isn't even mentioned in any of this threads. Many people's opinions are lonely based on what they were able to get to know from here, while alot more happened, and Game is just one of many who faced such things.
imo.paladin is proly the best head admin that iccup,and he start a project 1.defend the new generation of players(noobs) 2.He dont care who is who,u broke rules get BAN! i respect this, 3.Where is the power abue by him ?, i like sayle cast too,who no ? but this not mean he can spy admin archives and tell all to game and check the msg of locked account,i bet he do this. and take screens.for much that u like those guys help bw community his personal fight with iccup destroy all too,if u think iccup is a shit just dont join,go fish or brain,I love iccup and i love bw,i dont join in personal fight of game vs iccup and the new asshole eywa that think he is somethng here,.....he is another stupid wit not brain that cant think by his self,anyway gl this meatball on his retirement
1. He explicitely said that he did not give Game these information, he only wanted to observe himself. 2. You might notice that I agree with that decision in my previous post, he knew that he will get banned eventually, and it's correct. 3. Who doesn't defend the noobs? We all love the people who come over from SC2 or just get attracted to BW in other ways. 4. I am not talking about Paladin, I am talking about iCCup in general. I do not agree with some things of what other people have done, but as mentioned before you probably didn't get a victim of iCCup admins who join, stay calm, and eventually abuse their power when they are trusted enough. Your eyes are blured to only see the other side as the bad people.
However, Game said that he has alot of stuff going on in real life and that it becomes more after the summer, he also mentioned that he wouldn't have quit BW if it wasn't for iCCup's actions, so either way he would have been very busy, and yet still would have kept putting so damn much time into organizing stuff for BW, that is true dedication, and that is what is missing.
Take a look at iCCup's motivation: Randomly hosting tournaments now and then, and also there only individuals seem to take stuff to the next level (as tenshi taking upon the Nation Wars thing), while other events drop more and more. Think about iCCup Attack, it was good, it was something peolpe liked to see, but it died out, just as everything.
And then there is this one guy, who keeps going, he doesn't stop because of motivation, but because of denial.
On top of it, iCCup admins aren't saints, either. They act over the line, are bm, disrespectful, just as most people are from time to time, because they are human beings, just as all of us. Those admins who are nice and do their job in a good fashion, are just not recognized, we mainly get to notice those who act over the strings, which is sad and puts bad light upon all of them.
Exactly. Sayle is like the dark horse, the hidden mastermind behind all this. He observes, makes no unnecessary racket, and makes decisions based on his deep research. One can only wander what he has seen.. it may be too much for us well meaning Iccup users to bear.
After all of the flaming towards me (ironic) in a peaceful retirement thread, I'll clarify two things. 1) Real real analogy: + Show Spoiler +
I live in London. I say Fuck America!!! I am arrested in New York for saying "Fuck America!!!" in London (not actually feasible) I am sentenced to life in prison and the same judge who sentenced me went to London and stole all of my belongings.
I understand a lot of your opinions, because it's from a public view. However, as any non-iCCup admin who has worked with me can tell you, I went daily for almost a year with harassment, a lot of bm, and threats from them. You can't really think I just woke up one morning like "You know what? I really just want to have some insanely detailed BM thrown at iCCup." Please, stop with the iCCup martyr story, they are no angels.
On July 02 2011 02:38 FourFace wrote: Yeah .. "lost" their "cd" "keys" o.O
Exactly what I thought ^^ But establishing a new op teamliquid on fish (thought there is already one though ) is a good idea so that everybody can join. Although Germany - Korea is not the best connection.
On July 01 2011 10:03 Eywa- wrote: Was having a conversation with Masterbreti in admin channel, Gecko came in and started attacking me because I was talking in the channel, so I'm like "I'm not bming anyone". And he's like no in fact you wont be talking to anyone today. Chat bans me, no reason for the chat ban, just out of spite.
man u want be lrm)game 2.0 ? stop provoced admins., i really start hate u and ur comments
All I see you do lately is praise iCCup and their admins as if they were holy saints to bring us the word of the messias. What you are saying in your post right there is that you think it's okay if the iCCup Admins abuse their power like this, but we have to be quiet about it? That's blasphemy, and maybe you've just not had the right experiences yourself yet which blures your eyes.
That Sayle got banned for this is of course a right decision, which every website would have done, and he knows it and admits it, as sad as it is, I personally love his casting alot and think he is a nice guy to talk to, but he knew what he was doing and he knew that he was going to get busted eventually, it's just a matter of time.
Game knew that to some extend, too, with all the incidents he had, it was a matter of time, it was drastic, yes, many actions by iCCup have not been correct, though, no matter how you look at it, some of it isn't even mentioned in any of this threads. Many people's opinions are lonely based on what they were able to get to know from here, while alot more happened, and Game is just one of many who faced such things.
imo.paladin is proly the best head admin that iccup,and he start a project 1.defend the new generation of players(noobs) 2.He dont care who is who,u broke rules get BAN! i respect this, 3.Where is the power abue by him ?, i like sayle cast too,who no ? but this not mean he can spy admin archives and tell all to game and check the msg of locked account,i bet he do this. and take screens.for much that u like those guys help bw community his personal fight with iccup destroy all too,if u think iccup is a shit just dont join,go fish or brain,I love iccup and i love bw,i dont join in personal fight of game vs iccup and the new asshole eywa that think he is somethng here,.....he is another stupid wit not brain that cant think by his self,anyway gl this meatball on his retirement
In retort. lets think about what was going on pre-paladin.
We had many tournaments running, good casting going every weeklend, lots of money being injected into the scene.
post paladin: everything is turning to shit.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
this is coming from an ex iccup admin;
i do agree with paladin being one of the worst admin ever in history of iccup, but if you want to comment on issues and disputes like this as a third party, you should be atleast objective on this issue. it was the sc2 that made iccup lose most of its prestige/power/fame, not admins. believe me there were many similar stuff happening back in the day, before the release of sc2 and non of those would try to get this much attention. maybe it is because of the scene that have turned into after sc2 got released and made every little thing get more important and bigger than it is supposed to be :p
Remember that shit storm where Ret/Satanik and some other top foreigners basically got site banned and account locked when they played too many ladder games and lost points for it?
Remember when ICCup banned a whole city because "why not?".
Many of these kinds of things got a LOT of attention back before sc2 as well.
On July 02 2011 01:55 Kiante wrote: can we get a fish channel instead of a west. its better to have a channel where you can hangout while laddering imo and fish seems really lonely.
On July 01 2011 10:03 Eywa- wrote: Was having a conversation with Masterbreti in admin channel, Gecko came in and started attacking me because I was talking in the channel, so I'm like "I'm not bming anyone". And he's like no in fact you wont be talking to anyone today. Chat bans me, no reason for the chat ban, just out of spite.
man u want be lrm)game 2.0 ? stop provoced admins., i really start hate u and ur comments
All I see you do lately is praise iCCup and their admins as if they were holy saints to bring us the word of the messias. What you are saying in your post right there is that you think it's okay if the iCCup Admins abuse their power like this, but we have to be quiet about it? That's blasphemy, and maybe you've just not had the right experiences yourself yet which blures your eyes.
That Sayle got banned for this is of course a right decision, which every website would have done, and he knows it and admits it, as sad as it is, I personally love his casting alot and think he is a nice guy to talk to, but he knew what he was doing and he knew that he was going to get busted eventually, it's just a matter of time.
Game knew that to some extend, too, with all the incidents he had, it was a matter of time, it was drastic, yes, many actions by iCCup have not been correct, though, no matter how you look at it, some of it isn't even mentioned in any of this threads. Many people's opinions are lonely based on what they were able to get to know from here, while alot more happened, and Game is just one of many who faced such things.
imo.paladin is proly the best head admin that iccup,and he start a project 1.defend the new generation of players(noobs) 2.He dont care who is who,u broke rules get BAN! i respect this, 3.Where is the power abue by him ?, i like sayle cast too,who no ? but this not mean he can spy admin archives and tell all to game and check the msg of locked account,i bet he do this. and take screens.for much that u like those guys help bw community his personal fight with iccup destroy all too,if u think iccup is a shit just dont join,go fish or brain,I love iccup and i love bw,i dont join in personal fight of game vs iccup and the new asshole eywa that think he is somethng here,.....he is another stupid wit not brain that cant think by his self,anyway gl this meatball on his retirement
In retort. lets think about what was going on pre-paladin.
We had many tournaments running, good casting going every weeklend, lots of money being injected into the scene.
post paladin: everything is turning to shit.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
this is coming from an ex iccup admin;
i do agree with paladin being one of the worst admin ever in history of iccup, but if you want to comment on issues and disputes like this as a third party, you should be atleast objective on this issue. it was the sc2 that made iccup lose most of its prestige/power/fame, not admins. believe me there were many similar stuff happening back in the day, before the release of sc2 and non of those would try to get this much attention. maybe it is because of the scene that have turned into after sc2 got released and made every little thing get more important and bigger than it is supposed to be :p
i was never an iccup admin.... i've been playing bw on iccup since late 2009. I remember TSL2, that was cool, ISL1, sayles weekend casts, scene starting to pick up. then paladin banning everyone important. in my experience, paladin = the root of the problem.
I have my game online since you can input your CD key on battle.net...so if you ever lose your case/CD key again, you can just access it via battle.net.
i was never an iccup admin.... i've been playing bw on iccup since late 2009. I remember TSL2, that was cool, ISL1, sayles weekend casts, scene starting to pick up. then paladin banning everyone important. in my experience, paladin = the root of the problem.
I feel exactly the same Kiante, I feel exactly the same... and might I add I never thought this little quarrel you guys had in the background while picking up the foreign BW scene would escalate into this violent shitstorm and I regret the consequences of the actions wichever side they came from. It once again feels like the release of sc2, where the foreign scene laid on it's back drawing short strained breaths that quickly we're fading inte the oblivion that is everythings mortality. PS. excuse my grammars please and my melodrama (wich probably doesn't make sense but for that you can blame alchohol)
Lol, an admin makes decision against Game and he cries like a baby newb. learn to accept rules and authority. It doesn't matter if you think an admin is right or not. You need to accept their decision and respect it, and move on. This is coming from someone who has been ipbanned on iccup for 1 month before, but I learned to respect admins. They are just following rules.
Do you actually think crying will do about anything? Do you actually think you are innocent? The more u cry or try to get back at them, the more they'll ban u.
You didn't handle this situation correct at all. You just handled it just like a flaming monkey.
I would of ipbanned u long time ago, you don't respect admins.
I never was one to agree with "zero tolerance" rules. Sometimes for the good of everyone, things have to be tolerated.
The United States tolerates Saudi Arabia's unjust government because we need their oil.
Team Liquid tolerates Idra's shitty attitude because he's a top foreigner who brings a lot of worthwhile discussion to the site. (If this were iCCUP, he would have been IP banned a LONG time ago.)
And in the days where foreign Brood War is basically a fish out of water, IMO Game's attitude towards admins should be tolerated for the good of the community those admins supposedly support.
Is it fair? No. Could Game have avoided all of this by showing a bit more restraint? Of course. But you know what? When push comes to shove, I don't give a fuck if he hurt some poor admin's feelings. He worked his ass off to bring interest and money into a community that has been all but abandoned by everyone else.
I didn't even know he bad mouthed iCCUP a lot until all this drama started. But apparently the traffic he brought in to iCCUP with his tournaments isn't important when compared to his bm towards admins. Now they will just lose more traffic to Fish/Brain/West because of all the shenanigans.
Again, to clarify, I don't like or support people being able to get away with things others can't simply because of their status. But thats what toleration is all about. You don't have to like it. You just put up with it, for the good of everyone. In the words of Mr. Garrison, you tolerate a crying baby on an air plane. Sure, you'd like to throw it out of the god damn window, but in the end it's better for you and everyone else if you just stay seated and stay quiet.
On July 02 2011 01:55 Kiante wrote: can we get a fish channel instead of a west. its better to have a channel where you can hangout while laddering imo and fish seems really lonely.
Yeah i would love to get a op tl on fish going
You can't really ladder if you aren't in that ladder channel though.
On July 02 2011 22:18 LML wrote: SC2GG server reopened? If it was with auto matching, that would be awesome! They had that in the past.
Yes the server is back up, but its in a beta stage. The Creator of it is thinking of adding new stuff so any input is welcomed.
Does it have a functional AH + LAN?
As of right now it does not have AH + LAN, so Chaoslauncher is needed. Its still a brand new server, so currently all that the creator is doing is stress testing it.
that would be amazing if it had auto-matchmaking+AH+LAN
that's pretty much everything you need from a bw server imo trouble finding games is probably the most typical complaint people have about the iccup server
On July 03 2011 05:01 GGzerG wrote: OMG i loved this server SC2GG!! the matchmaking is amazing for BW!! this server is the best server ever created, just needs population
EDIT : My spyware is picking up a trojan in that bnet gateay editor -_-, is there just a custom file to add it to registry ? there should be
I've heard that some anti-viruses get a false-positive with BWGateway editors. If you are afraid just google for another one, there is nothing sever specific to it.
I don't understand how game and sayle can be banned. They are the seeds of the future. they were the face of iccup to me. i dont see see anything iccup can gain by doing this and theres so much more to lose.
You guys rocked the house with Isl 1 commentary, gg ppl and gl in your future endeavors When they found out what Sayle did, They should have given him 100% access to iccup so he wont need to break the rules. I have never seen Sayle flame or bm anybody so hes the perfect face for iccup. this is all unnecessary drama, if i get into a flame war with some1, i dont need to continue talking, this is starcraft, you go 1v1 them if they talk shit . If you lose, get better so u can stomp them in the future
On July 03 2011 08:08 Warlord_Master wrote: I don't understand how game and sayle can be banned. They are the seeds of the future. they were the face of iccup to me. i dont see see anything iccup can gain by doing this and theres so much more to lose.
You guys rocked the house with Isl 1 commentary, gg ppl and gl in your future endeavors When they found out what Sayle did, They should have given him 100% access to iccup so he wont need to break the rules. I have never seen Sayle flame or bm anybody so hes the perfect face for iccup. this is all unnecessary drama, if i get into a flame war with some1, i dont need to continue talking, this is starcraft, you go 1v1 them if they talk shit . If you lose, get better so u can stomp them in the future
gogo paladin vs Lrm)game python sayle stream ^_^
Agreed, sayle is like a mastermind. He knows what to say and when to say. His actions are well thought out and elegant. It was merely a streak of unfortune that caused the iccup incident. A crucial part of starcraft, and im sure we havent seen the last of his struggle against the iccup power mongers.
if iccup accepted royalties for hosting the tourny, it would be a direct violation of Blizzard's EULA, iccup suppose to be non-profit. Blizzard could shut down the server if they felt like it, if that were to happen
You are an awful BM and you were not even that good as a player. I'm pretty sure all who encountered you in iCCup will have very little good to say about you. On the other hand I give it to you, you and Sayle are awesome organizers, the true heroes of foreign BW scene. But you brought it upon yourself. It's as simple as this. Someone gives you free platform to organize your tournaments. And you insult iCCup at every chance you get and you expect them to just suck it up? There is a limit to it, man. You have your reasons for sure, but there is no denying that what you did was wrong, like biting the hand that feeds you. Given your attitude though, it's not at all surprising.
You will not be missed at all as a person, but for all the efforts you've done to BW, it was fun while it lasted. GL on the new chapter of your life.
On July 03 2011 16:17 Ultimate Weapon wrote: Game you have to understand it.
You are an awful BM and you were not even that good as a player. I'm pretty sure all who encountered you in iCCup will have very little good to say about you. On the other hand I give it to you, you and Sayle are awesome organizers, the true heroes of foreign BW scene. But you brought it upon yourself. It's as simple as this. Someone gives you free platform to organize your tournaments. And you insult iCCup at every chance you get and you expect them to just suck it up? There is a limit to it, man. You have your reasons for sure, but there is no denying that what you did was wrong, like biting the hand that feeds you. Given your attitude though, it's not at all surprising.
You will not be missed at all as a person, but for all the efforts you've done to BW, it was fun while it lasted. GL on the new chapter of your life.
So wait, let me get this right. What you're saying is that I was metaphorically being fed by iCCup, I wasn't a good player, and that Sayle is an organizer? Thanks for your accurate post. + Show Spoiler +
On July 03 2011 16:17 Ultimate Weapon wrote: Game you have to understand it.
You are an awful BM and you were not even that good as a player. I'm pretty sure all who encountered you in iCCup will have very little good to say about you. On the other hand I give it to you, you and Sayle are awesome organizers, the true heroes of foreign BW scene. But you brought it upon yourself. It's as simple as this. Someone gives you free platform to organize your tournaments. And you insult iCCup at every chance you get and you expect them to just suck it up? There is a limit to it, man. You have your reasons for sure, but there is no denying that what you did was wrong, like biting the hand that feeds you. Given your attitude though, it's not at all surprising.
You will not be missed at all as a person, but for all the efforts you've done to BW, it was fun while it lasted. GL on the new chapter of your life.
I think its made blatantly obvious by this thread that game wont be missed at all, none of us like you man... GTFO.
On July 03 2011 16:17 Ultimate Weapon wrote: Game you have to understand it.
You are an awful BM and you were not even that good as a player. I'm pretty sure all who encountered you in iCCup will have very little good to say about you. On the other hand I give it to you, you and Sayle are awesome organizers, the true heroes of foreign BW scene. But you brought it upon yourself. It's as simple as this. Someone gives you free platform to organize your tournaments. And you insult iCCup at every chance you get and you expect them to just suck it up? There is a limit to it, man. You have your reasons for sure, but there is no denying that what you did was wrong, like biting the hand that feeds you. Given your attitude though, it's not at all surprising.
You will not be missed at all as a person, but for all the efforts you've done to BW, it was fun while it lasted. GL on the new chapter of your life.
So wait, let me get this right. What you're saying is that I was metaphorically being fed by iCCup, I wasn't a good player, and that Sayle is an organizer? Thanks for your accurate post. + Show Spoiler +
You _must_ be an iCCup admin.
Just retire. No drama. You deserve what you got. Sayle though... wish you could still be part of BW.
On July 03 2011 16:17 Ultimate Weapon wrote: Game you have to understand it.
You are an awful BM and you were not even that good as a player. I'm pretty sure all who encountered you in iCCup will have very little good to say about you. On the other hand I give it to you, you and Sayle are awesome organizers, the true heroes of foreign BW scene. But you brought it upon yourself. It's as simple as this. Someone gives you free platform to organize your tournaments. And you insult iCCup at every chance you get and you expect them to just suck it up? There is a limit to it, man. You have your reasons for sure, but there is no denying that what you did was wrong, like biting the hand that feeds you. Given your attitude though, it's not at all surprising.
You will not be missed at all as a person, but for all the efforts you've done to BW, it was fun while it lasted. GL on the new chapter of your life.
So wait, let me get this right. What you're saying is that I was metaphorically being fed by iCCup, I wasn't a good player, and that Sayle is an organizer? Thanks for your accurate post. + Show Spoiler +
You _must_ be an iCCup admin.
Just retire. No drama. You deserve what you got. Sayle though... wish you could still be part of BW.
"I wish you could still be part of BW" - Epic face palm
On July 03 2011 16:17 Ultimate Weapon wrote: Game you have to understand it.
You are an awful BM and you were not even that good as a player. I'm pretty sure all who encountered you in iCCup will have very little good to say about you. On the other hand I give it to you, you and Sayle are awesome organizers, the true heroes of foreign BW scene. But you brought it upon yourself. It's as simple as this. Someone gives you free platform to organize your tournaments. And you insult iCCup at every chance you get and you expect them to just suck it up? There is a limit to it, man. You have your reasons for sure, but there is no denying that what you did was wrong, like biting the hand that feeds you. Given your attitude though, it's not at all surprising.
You will not be missed at all as a person, but for all the efforts you've done to BW, it was fun while it lasted. GL on the new chapter of your life.
So wait, let me get this right. What you're saying is that I was metaphorically being fed by iCCup, I wasn't a good player, and that Sayle is an organizer? Thanks for your accurate post. + Show Spoiler +
You _must_ be an iCCup admin.
Just retire. No drama. You deserve what you got. Sayle though... wish you could still be part of BW.
"I wish you could still be part of BW" - Epic face palm
I wish iCCup still supported BW.
Eywa with all due respect whoever you are. I am writing to Game and Sayle, not you. Thanks
On July 03 2011 16:17 Ultimate Weapon wrote: Game you have to understand it.
You are an awful BM and you were not even that good as a player. I'm pretty sure all who encountered you in iCCup will have very little good to say about you. On the other hand I give it to you, you and Sayle are awesome organizers, the true heroes of foreign BW scene. But you brought it upon yourself. It's as simple as this. Someone gives you free platform to organize your tournaments. And you insult iCCup at every chance you get and you expect them to just suck it up? There is a limit to it, man. You have your reasons for sure, but there is no denying that what you did was wrong, like biting the hand that feeds you. Given your attitude though, it's not at all surprising.
You will not be missed at all as a person, but for all the efforts you've done to BW, it was fun while it lasted. GL on the new chapter of your life.
So wait, let me get this right. What you're saying is that I was metaphorically being fed by iCCup, I wasn't a good player, and that Sayle is an organizer? Thanks for your accurate post. + Show Spoiler +
You _must_ be an iCCup admin.
Just retire. No drama. You deserve what you got. Sayle though... wish you could still be part of BW.
"I wish you could still be part of BW" - Epic face palm
I wish iCCup still supported BW.
Eywa with all due respect whoever you are. I am writing to Game and Sayle, not you. Thanks
With all due respect, Sayle getting banned from iccup has no impact on his involvement in BW, iccup is just going to die after ISL2 ladder... You've clearly gotten your info from the iccup team.
Edit: Also being as you just joinned TL today and are making a big deal in this thread I'd have to say you're either an admin or a troll.
On July 03 2011 16:17 Ultimate Weapon wrote: Game you have to understand it.
You are an awful BM and you were not even that good as a player. I'm pretty sure all who encountered you in iCCup will have very little good to say about you. On the other hand I give it to you, you and Sayle are awesome organizers, the true heroes of foreign BW scene. But you brought it upon yourself. It's as simple as this. Someone gives you free platform to organize your tournaments. And you insult iCCup at every chance you get and you expect them to just suck it up? There is a limit to it, man. You have your reasons for sure, but there is no denying that what you did was wrong, like biting the hand that feeds you. Given your attitude though, it's not at all surprising.
You will not be missed at all as a person, but for all the efforts you've done to BW, it was fun while it lasted. GL on the new chapter of your life.
It all depends how self secure you are. You can insult me as much as you like, I think it's funny, because I am self secure enough to tolerate and ignore that. Other people however get offended very easy due to being insecure and if they are given power, they will abuse that due to their personal problems.
Hello, The situation with Game started when the guy start call to my admin team retarded, etc. Insult to the people who is working for you by FREE, is not the best way to keep friends. At iccup, can´t support to someone who make money with our free service. This is the second reason about why you, Game, wont be supported by my admin team. Its 100% true that this kind of tournaments keeps the community active, but no the whole community is playing the tournament. With ISL, about 85% of our complaints came from ISL ladder and we were over capacity to help everyone. So, iccup gave you banners, promotion, ladder support, an almost abusers-free server, and a lot of admin time for free, and what we got? Your insults your disrespect. We cant be sit down seeing how you make money and using our service for you. Is not true that ISL give us promotion. iccup doesnt need promotion.
Is not an easy decision for us (specially for me), dont allow to my team helps you. And yes, its my decision, no Paladin decision. I know that money tournaments gets the sympathy of community, but we cant accept that our admin team works for free for your bussiness.
Im not in the position to valorate if money prizes, or pay for replay pack its legal, allowed or not. I prefere that Ant, iccup owner, decide about this. But its my responsability to protect to my admin team (in consequence the whole ladder), of insults of someone who wants professional admins when we just have FREE people using their FREE time for help people for get a good experience in our ladder.
I hope none blames about iccup.TV or iccup super admins, who can get a different vision about this situation. Sadly we can give to the community a perfect admin team. We would like to, but we gives you what we have. We are improving our system, our rules, our super admins, our trials, everything, as hard as we can. But never, never, never will be perfect. There is not exist a perfect ladder, but we are proud of to be here, after many years, enjoying with our players of the best ladder than SC-BW has had in his history.
the best ladder than SC-BW has had in his history.
is that a joke? seriously? in terms of ladders, brain and fish right now > iccup by a long way, not to mention older ladders like WGT and PGT and whatever.
On July 03 2011 22:51 Pads wrote: iccup is better than pgt and wgt but only because of lan latency, i agree about brain and fish though.
But since iCCup didn't invent LL, but MasterOfChaos did, it's obviously nothing that can go to them. If PGT and WGT and everything still were around, they would have had LL right away, too!
btw, the point that 85% of the complaint were from ISL only shows how dead the server was before, considering that all these people obviously either played on their ISL account instead, or they wouldn't have even laddered on your server. Best proof you could give to show that the ISL only helped iCCup in ladder population.
I finally read the entire story. And so basically Game had ICCUP do him a favor running these tournaments for free, in which game was gaining money by people who would pay for replays. I completely understand their decision. He was also a dick to the admins working free for him?
On July 03 2011 23:06 JediGamer wrote: I finally read the entire story. And so basically Game had ICCUP do him a favor running these tournaments for free, in which game was gaining money by people who would pay for replays. I completely understand their decision. He was also a dick to the admins working free for him?
And you can't "retire" if you never were a pro. When the SC1 scene was active Game was a 2nd or third tier player at best, only competing with top players off of ICCUP when the AH was working (for some reason ><). Later on iccup once it was able to be hacked he became more a lot more active on iccup.
No, he was using the money to help support future tournaments and make a bigger and better ISL2.
On July 03 2011 23:06 JediGamer wrote: I finally read the entire story. And so basically Game had ICCUP do him a favor running these tournaments for free, in which game was gaining money by people who would pay for replays. I completely understand their decision. He was also a dick to the admins working free for him?
And you can't "retire" if you never were a pro. When the SC1 scene was active Game was a 2nd or third tier player at best, only competing with top players off of ICCUP when the AH was working (for some reason ><). Later on iccup once it was able to be hacked he became more a lot more active on iccup.
No, he was using the money to help support future tournaments and make a bigger and better ISL2.
Weren't the admins and iccup working for free? What was the money supporting? The really small prizepool?
On July 03 2011 22:08 LG)cheloman wrote: We cant be sit down seeing how you make money and using our service for you. Is not true that ISL give us promotion. iccup doesnt need promotion.
First question, did you mean that we cannot just wait on the side seeing how you make money?
Second, if the previous answer is "yes", why not? If people are willing to help for free, and it's in your interest for events to be organized, why cannot you allow people to make money off it? It's like an app store. People make money off your platform, but at the same time make your platform much better.
On July 03 2011 23:06 JediGamer wrote: I finally read the entire story. And so basically Game had ICCUP do him a favor running these tournaments for free, in which game was gaining money by people who would pay for replays. I completely understand their decision. He was also a dick to the admins working free for him?
And you can't "retire" if you never were a pro. When the SC1 scene was active Game was a 2nd or third tier player at best, only competing with top players off of ICCUP when the AH was working (for some reason ><). Later on iccup once it was able to be hacked he became more a lot more active on iccup.
No, he was using the money to help support future tournaments and make a bigger and better ISL2.
Weren't the admins and iccup working for free? What was the money supporting? The really small prizepool?
Game paid noone and joekim for their work. he didn't pay himself as far as i know, and sayle refused payment. the rest of the money was towards future prize pools. game wasn't just selling replays and pocketing all the cash
On July 03 2011 22:51 Pads wrote: iccup is better than pgt and wgt but only because of lan latency, i agree about brain and fish though.
But since iCCup didn't invent LL, but MasterOfChaos did, it's obviously nothing that can go to them. If PGT and WGT and everything still were around, they would have had LL right away, too!
btw, the point that 85% of the complaint were from ISL only shows how dead the server was before, considering that all these people obviously either played on their ISL account instead, or they wouldn't have even laddered on your server. Best proof you could give to show that the ISL only helped iCCup in ladder population.
i know this is true, but it doesn't make pgt and wgt better ^^.
Game became hostile towards admins because he was the victim of abuse. Under my direct orders not to, a certain admin (not Paladin, he wasn't even part of the team at the time) sitebanned Game for being rude. He was not being rude towards admins, but towards the people who could not bother themselves to read the information provided in his original post about the ISL. The rudeness did not consist of any bm, it was only a disrespectful tone. After this incident, I unbanned Game and instructed the admin to completely ignore him. Defying me once again, the admin calls Game an idiot and bans him from the admin channel. This admin has been removed from the team several times for abuse, yet keeps coming back under Ant's "control". His opinions about this: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/155/gecko.png/
"With ISL, about 85% of our complaints came from ISL ladder and we were over capacity to help everyone. " What? I don't understand where you got this information. During the ISL, the only two peoeple I allowed to solve ISL complaints were myself and Sayle. It was MAYBE 25%, which was absolutely no problem for two people. Also, please do not give the entire admin team credit. Myself, Sayle, Game, JoeKim, yeszero and Tenshi were the only ones doing counter-abuse for the event.
On July 03 2011 23:22 Kiante wrote: Game paid noone and joekim for their work. he didn't pay himself as far as i know, and sayle refused payment. the rest of the money was towards future prize pools. game wasn't just selling replays and pocketing all the cash
Game became hostile towards admins because he was the victim of abuse. Under my direct orders not to, a certain admin (not Paladin, he wasn't even part of the team at the time) sitebanned Game for being rude. He was not being rude towards admins, but towards the people who could not bother themselves to read the information provided in his original post about the ISL. The rudeness did not consist of any bm, it was only a disrespectful tone. After this incident, I unbanned Game and instructed the admin to completely ignore him. Defying me once again, the admin calls Game an idiot and bans him from the admin channel. This admin has been removed from the team several times for abuse, yet keeps coming back under Ant's "control". His opinions about this: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/155/gecko.png/
"With ISL, about 85% of our complaints came from ISL ladder and we were over capacity to help everyone. " What? I don't understand where you got this information. During the ISL, the only two peoeple I allowed to solve ISL complaints were myself and Sayle. It was MAYBE 25%, which was absolutely no problem for two people. Also, please do not give the entire admin team credit. Myself, Sayle, Game, JoeKim, yeszero and Tenshi were the only ones doing counter-abuse for the event.
On July 03 2011 23:22 Kiante wrote: Game paid noone and joekim for their work. he didn't pay himself as far as i know, and sayle refused payment. the rest of the money was towards future prize pools. game wasn't just selling replays and pocketing all the cash
I refused the cash as well.
Oh shit, someone actually laying a hammer on 'behind the scenes'
Since you guys are arguing about whether PGT / WGT or iCCup was better, i'm just going to throw it out there that i always thought Gamei was the best ladder ever, then PGT and so on. But I had the best ladder experience on Gamei server, was so fun, maybe not a lot of people will remember Gamei Ladder....
On July 01 2011 11:01 ammeL wrote: Whatever happened, happened. Things happen for a reason. iCCUP has their points, Game has his. No one is going to win in this battle, it seems. It seems iCCUP's decision is permanent (since IPBans were made).
This is how I see it: If Game wanted to charge for replays, which he indicated to the public on March 31st (as he had created a thread back then saying he could charge for replays), I don't see the big deal. Actually, if anything, it's a good thing. He mentioned that the proceeds would be going to the next big tournament. That's a good thing, isn't it? That means it'd be a bigger tournament, draw more attention, and there would be more Brood War activity. All of this would be taking place on iCCUP; thus, the player activity and popularity of iCCUP would rise. This is a good thing for iCCUP and a good thing for the players participating in the tournament (since the prize pool would be bigger). Not to mention, all the hard work and dedication that goes into running such a big tournament - why not let some of the admins/people working hard take a little share. In the end, they are working for the community, and essentially, with the passion and pose that they ran things, I believe they deserved a little something aside from respect and gratitude.
That leads me to the viewpoint of iCCUP. iCCUP wanted royalty fees since Game was charging for replays and they wanted some share of it, too (I'm not sure if this is exactly what happened since some of those screenshots were unclear). Nonetheless, iCCUP wanted some sort of compensation from ISL. Now, what I have to say about this is that why on earth would iCCUP ever do this? Like I mentioned in the previous paragraph, the "donation" (in a sense), from the purchasing of replays was going to make a bigger and better tournament which, in return, would make a bigger and better iCCUP. iCCUP would have gotten more attention and, I'm sure iCCUP earns money through ads and whatnot; thus, with more player activity, they'd be earning more revenue anyways. And since Game would have been bringing such activity to iCCUP, why would they care? They should've been happy about it. And then, I'm unclear of what took place about Game flaming them and whatnot, but there was no reason to IPBan the guy who did so much, made iCCUP bigger during the brink of death, etc.
It seems that there was greed and corruption amongst the iCCUP staff. Wanting fees for the work of another was not necessary of iCCUP. Not to mention, it's not like Game pulled that on anyone last second saying he'd charge money for replays. He did this early on (about a month ago). Furthermore, it was for the better of the community as a whole. And since iCCUP does host this server and do a lot for the community, I don't see why they would be against this? They should have wanted to join Game and his endeavors and aim to revive a community we once had.
Either way, what's done is done now. There was some sort miscommunication, greed, corruption, etc going on and it seems that the final cuts have been made. The only thing that can be done now is if iCCUP realizes what idiocy they have committed...
All in all - great work, Game. We were friends for a while on B.net for the last few years, played games together, and had some talks. Best of luck; and we all know you were doing this for the community and no other selfish reason. Some people just won't understand and let their power trips get to them. Can't do anything about it, man.
Game became hostile towards admins because he was the victim of abuse. Under my direct orders not to, a certain admin (not Paladin, he wasn't even part of the team at the time) sitebanned Game for being rude. He was not being rude towards admins, but towards the people who could not bother themselves to read the information provided in his original post about the ISL. The rudeness did not consist of any bm, it was only a disrespectful tone. After this incident, I unbanned Game and instructed the admin to completely ignore him. Defying me once again, the admin calls Game an idiot and bans him from the admin channel. This admin has been removed from the team several times for abuse, yet keeps coming back under Ant's "control". His opinions about this: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/155/gecko.png/
"With ISL, about 85% of our complaints came from ISL ladder and we were over capacity to help everyone. " What? I don't understand where you got this information. During the ISL, the only two peoeple I allowed to solve ISL complaints were myself and Sayle. It was MAYBE 25%, which was absolutely no problem for two people. Also, please do not give the entire admin team credit. Myself, Sayle, Game, JoeKim, yeszero and Tenshi were the only ones doing counter-abuse for the event.
On July 03 2011 23:22 Kiante wrote: Game paid noone and joekim for their work. he didn't pay himself as far as i know, and sayle refused payment. the rest of the money was towards future prize pools. game wasn't just selling replays and pocketing all the cash
I refused the cash as well.
lol Justin, making public awareness of iCCup is pretty pointless. There are always going to be people who under any circumstance won't agree with you due to the mini-theory they've already conjured up in their head.
However, what he posted is true. I was very angry during ISL that people asked me the same questions 90-300 times a day that was clearly printed in every news story about it. Somehow they knew of the event and caught all of the details of the event, except the ones that mattered. Hence in my original post I mention "geckoxp removed all of our messages back and forth from my inbox's," because he was the entire reason anything between me and iCCup broke out. *ENTIRE REASON* To this day he is the one controlling Paladin: + Show Spoiler +
[9:26:25 PM] Justin: the poor english makes it sound like you're terminating the isl2 [9:27:05 PM] Paladin: the statement is pretty clear ... Sayle admitted to abusing ... what else is needed? [9:27:22 PM] Justin: "We regret the drama around the KISL, an event generously sponsored by some BW Enthusiasts and now organized by LRM)Noone, and wish to terminate it." [9:27:29 PM] Paladin: what? [9:27:34 PM] Justin: it is not clear [9:27:34 PM] Paladin: wtf? [9:27:34 PM] Justin: at all [9:27:50 PM] Paladin: I gave gecko a textfile [9:27:55 PM] Paladin: let me look at news
Someone 3x banned (why was he banned? IPBanning me during ISL because I wouldn't give him control of the tournament... this sounds familiar) from the SC section that is now only part of the DEV crew... posting news by Paladin on their front page.... weird. Cat's out of the bag now :/
the best ladder than SC-BW has had in his history.
is that a joke? seriously? in terms of ladders, brain and fish right now > iccup by a long way, not to mention older ladders like WGT and PGT and whatever.
Maybe you dont remember, but I ran PGTour too, as ladder super admin, and was the only admin solving complaints when ELOs system was online. So Im pretty sure about iccup is a lot better. WGTour never was better than us. They used to solve some complaints with publics comments, etc. I have a lot of respect of WGTour, but some of their admins, were too bad.
On July 01 2011 10:03 Eywa- wrote: Was having a conversation with Masterbreti in admin channel, Gecko came in and started attacking me because I was talking in the channel, so I'm like "I'm not bming anyone". And he's like no in fact you wont be talking to anyone today. Chat bans me, no reason for the chat ban, just out of spite.
man u want be lrm)game 2.0 ? stop provoced admins., i really start hate u and ur comments
All I see you do lately is praise iCCup and their admins as if they were holy saints to bring us the word of the messias. What you are saying in your post right there is that you think it's okay if the iCCup Admins abuse their power like this, but we have to be quiet about it? That's blasphemy, and maybe you've just not had the right experiences yourself yet which blures your eyes.
That Sayle got banned for this is of course a right decision, which every website would have done, and he knows it and admits it, as sad as it is, I personally love his casting alot and think he is a nice guy to talk to, but he knew what he was doing and he knew that he was going to get busted eventually, it's just a matter of time.
Game knew that to some extend, too, with all the incidents he had, it was a matter of time, it was drastic, yes, many actions by iCCup have not been correct, though, no matter how you look at it, some of it isn't even mentioned in any of this threads. Many people's opinions are lonely based on what they were able to get to know from here, while alot more happened, and Game is just one of many who faced such things.
imo.paladin is proly the best head admin that iccup,and he start a project 1.defend the new generation of players(noobs) 2.He dont care who is who,u broke rules get BAN! i respect this, 3.Where is the power abue by him ?, i like sayle cast too,who no ? but this not mean he can spy admin archives and tell all to game and check the msg of locked account,i bet he do this. and take screens.for much that u like those guys help bw community his personal fight with iccup destroy all too,if u think iccup is a shit just dont join,go fish or brain,I love iccup and i love bw,i dont join in personal fight of game vs iccup and the new asshole eywa that think he is somethng here,.....he is another stupid wit not brain that cant think by his self,anyway gl this meatball on his retirement
In retort. lets think about what was going on pre-paladin.
We had many tournaments running, good casting going every weeklend, lots of money being injected into the scene.
post paladin: everything is turning to shit.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
this is coming from an ex iccup admin;
i do agree with paladin being one of the worst admin ever in history of iccup, but if you want to comment on issues and disputes like this as a third party, you should be atleast objective on this issue. it was the sc2 that made iccup lose most of its prestige/power/fame, not admins. believe me there were many similar stuff happening back in the day, before the release of sc2 and non of those would try to get this much attention. maybe it is because of the scene that have turned into after sc2 got released and made every little thing get more important and bigger than it is supposed to be :p
i was never an iccup admin.... i've been playing bw on iccup since late 2009. I remember TSL2, that was cool, ISL1, sayles weekend casts, scene starting to pick up. then paladin banning everyone important. in my experience, paladin = the root of the problem.
i didnt mean you, it was me.
about the issue; there were lots of admins in the past that were huge fail aswell but none of their mistakes have gotten this much publicity. well i guess sc2 have also helped the bw community to get more closer and connected via butchering the numbers, must be a good thing. shame that good people like Game etc have to leave the scene but people shouldnt give up as long as there are others who are a part of this community and loving the game no matter what.
On July 02 2011 10:15 iCafeMotoNotDead wrote: I made an TLnet account just to say this
Joekim I wish you weren't banned from Iccup because you were really cool to watch in my tournaments and other tournaments. It really seemed like you thought of creative strategies on my island map tournaments.
On July 03 2011 22:08 LG)cheloman wrote: Hello, The situation with Game started when the guy start call to my admin team retarded, etc. Insult to the people who is working for you by FREE, is not the best way to keep friends. At iccup, can´t support to someone who make money with our free service. This is the second reason about why you, Game, wont be supported by my admin team. Its 100% true that this kind of tournaments keeps the community active, but no the whole community is playing the tournament. With ISL, about 85% of our complaints came from ISL ladder and we were over capacity to help everyone. So, iccup gave you banners, promotion, ladder support, an almost abusers-free server, and a lot of admin time for free, and what we got? Your insults your disrespect. We cant be sit down seeing how you make money and using our service for you. Is not true that ISL give us promotion. iccup doesnt need promotion.
Is not an easy decision for us (specially for me), dont allow to my team helps you. And yes, its my decision, no Paladin decision. I know that money tournaments gets the sympathy of community, but we cant accept that our admin team works for free for your bussiness.
Im not in the position to valorate if money prizes, or pay for replay pack its legal, allowed or not. I prefere that Ant, iccup owner, decide about this. But its my responsability to protect to my admin team (in consequence the whole ladder), of insults of someone who wants professional admins when we just have FREE people using their FREE time for help people for get a good experience in our ladder.
I hope none blames about iccup.TV or iccup super admins, who can get a different vision about this situation. Sadly we can give to the community a perfect admin team. We would like to, but we gives you what we have. We are improving our system, our rules, our super admins, our trials, everything, as hard as we can. But never, never, never will be perfect. There is not exist a perfect ladder, but we are proud of to be here, after many years, enjoying with our players of the best ladder than SC-BW has had in his history.
The server is free for everyone, you just treat Game differently because he's a well known icon and you're trying to show your power. Many other people have shout out the same bm without anywhere near the punishment. You really should have thought this through. You exiled one of the most important people in foreign bw just to set an example of "oooh look at me, I can ban people who disobey the rules". Had it been any average ladder player, there would have been virtually no action. BM against the admins is everywhere, everyone does it and its because of shit like this. Also, as far as I know you don't even do shit for bw, I don't understand how you have your admin position. Very poor way to show off the ban hammer you have.
On July 05 2011 13:27 Warlord_Master wrote: Without game being part of the organizers, will there be a ISL3 or any future tournaments or this is the last big one?
On July 03 2011 22:08 LG)cheloman wrote: Hello, The situation with Game started when the guy start call to my admin team retarded, etc. Insult to the people who is working for you by FREE, is not the best way to keep friends. At iccup, can´t support to someone who make money with our free service. This is the second reason about why you, Game, wont be supported by my admin team. Its 100% true that this kind of tournaments keeps the community active, but no the whole community is playing the tournament. With ISL, about 85% of our complaints came from ISL ladder and we were over capacity to help everyone. So, iccup gave you banners, promotion, ladder support, an almost abusers-free server, and a lot of admin time for free, and what we got? Your insults your disrespect. We cant be sit down seeing how you make money and using our service for you. Is not true that ISL give us promotion. iccup doesnt need promotion.
Is not an easy decision for us (specially for me), dont allow to my team helps you. And yes, its my decision, no Paladin decision. I know that money tournaments gets the sympathy of community, but we cant accept that our admin team works for free for your bussiness.
Im not in the position to valorate if money prizes, or pay for replay pack its legal, allowed or not. I prefere that Ant, iccup owner, decide about this. But its my responsability to protect to my admin team (in consequence the whole ladder), of insults of someone who wants professional admins when we just have FREE people using their FREE time for help people for get a good experience in our ladder.
I hope none blames about iccup.TV or iccup super admins, who can get a different vision about this situation. Sadly we can give to the community a perfect admin team. We would like to, but we gives you what we have. We are improving our system, our rules, our super admins, our trials, everything, as hard as we can. But never, never, never will be perfect. There is not exist a perfect ladder, but we are proud of to be here, after many years, enjoying with our players of the best ladder than SC-BW has had in his history.
The server is free for everyone, you just treat Game differently because he's a well known icon and you're trying to show your power. Many other people have shout out the same bm without anywhere near the punishment. You really should have thought this through. You exiled one of the most important people in foreign bw just to set an example of "oooh look at me, I can ban people who disobey the rules". Had it been any average ladder player, there would have been virtually no action. BM against the admins is everywhere, everyone does it and its because of shit like this. Also, as far as I know you don't even do shit for bw, I don't understand how you have your admin position. Very poor way to show off the ban hammer you have.
No, anyone in the position of Game heading this tournament would become well-known. They made the right decision when it comes to disrespecting their free service. What would you do if someone asked to come over and use your shit, then bitch and insult you when you don't give them a mile after an inch?
Not that it's black and white, but when something gets out of hand like this, there's only so much you can do.
On July 03 2011 22:08 LG)cheloman wrote: Hello, The situation with Game started when the guy start call to my admin team retarded, etc. Insult to the people who is working for you by FREE, is not the best way to keep friends. At iccup, can´t support to someone who make money with our free service. This is the second reason about why you, Game, wont be supported by my admin team. Its 100% true that this kind of tournaments keeps the community active, but no the whole community is playing the tournament. With ISL, about 85% of our complaints came from ISL ladder and we were over capacity to help everyone. So, iccup gave you banners, promotion, ladder support, an almost abusers-free server, and a lot of admin time for free, and what we got? Your insults your disrespect. We cant be sit down seeing how you make money and using our service for you. Is not true that ISL give us promotion. iccup doesnt need promotion.
Is not an easy decision for us (specially for me), dont allow to my team helps you. And yes, its my decision, no Paladin decision. I know that money tournaments gets the sympathy of community, but we cant accept that our admin team works for free for your bussiness.
Im not in the position to valorate if money prizes, or pay for replay pack its legal, allowed or not. I prefere that Ant, iccup owner, decide about this. But its my responsability to protect to my admin team (in consequence the whole ladder), of insults of someone who wants professional admins when we just have FREE people using their FREE time for help people for get a good experience in our ladder.
I hope none blames about iccup.TV or iccup super admins, who can get a different vision about this situation. Sadly we can give to the community a perfect admin team. We would like to, but we gives you what we have. We are improving our system, our rules, our super admins, our trials, everything, as hard as we can. But never, never, never will be perfect. There is not exist a perfect ladder, but we are proud of to be here, after many years, enjoying with our players of the best ladder than SC-BW has had in his history.
The server is free for everyone, you just treat Game differently because he's a well known icon and you're trying to show your power. Many other people have shout out the same bm without anywhere near the punishment. You really should have thought this through. You exiled one of the most important people in foreign bw just to set an example of "oooh look at me, I can ban people who disobey the rules". Had it been any average ladder player, there would have been virtually no action. BM against the admins is everywhere, everyone does it and its because of shit like this. Also, as far as I know you don't even do shit for bw, I don't understand how you have your admin position. Very poor way to show off the ban hammer you have.
No, anyone in the position of Game heading this tournament would become well-known. They made the right decision when it comes to disrespecting their free service. What would you do if someone asked to come over and use your shit, then bitch and insult you when you don't give them a mile after an inch?
Not that it's black and white, but when something gets out of hand like this, there's only so much you can do.
Mind you, the whole drama actually started beforehand
Seems pretty cut and dry to me - unless Game explicitly told iCCup officials that he would be selling replay packs for profit from the very beginning, iCCup had every right and reason to shut him down for being a manipulative leech.
On July 05 2011 20:18 hauton wrote: Seems pretty cut and dry to me - unless Game explicitly told iCCup officials that he would be selling replay packs for profit from the very beginning, iCCup had every right and reason to shut him down for being a manipulative leech.
That's not the whole picture. I could explain everything, but I won't since people don't read the full story and only jump onto conclusions
On July 05 2011 20:18 hauton wrote: Seems pretty cut and dry to me - unless Game explicitly told iCCup officials that he would be selling replay packs for profit from the very beginning, iCCup had every right and reason to shut him down for being a manipulative leech.
That's not the whole picture. I could explain everything, but I won't since people don't read the full story and only jump onto conclusions
I would be glad to learn more.
From their own words, people on Game's side were offered compensation for their work. Some took it, others refused.
Game never gave those on the iCCup admin side that choice. So you can say it was for future prize money or whatever, but then treat everyone the same - everyone works for free and all pack sales go towards purely helping the tournament.
On July 05 2011 20:18 hauton wrote: Seems pretty cut and dry to me - unless Game explicitly told iCCup officials that he would be selling replay packs for profit from the very beginning, iCCup had every right and reason to shut him down for being a manipulative leech.
That's not the whole picture. I could explain everything, but I won't since people don't read the full story and only jump onto conclusions
I would be glad to learn more.
From their own words, people on Game's side were offered compensation for their work. Some took it, others refused.
Game never gave those on the iCCup admin side that choice. So you can say it was for future prize money or whatever, but then treat everyone the same - everyone works for free and all pack sales go towards purely helping the tournament.
I don't know what's more hard to do: scrolling up 2 posts to read 'The drama began before the ISL incident' or reading the whole thread. Either one is fine.
Game wasn't banned from iCCup because of replays; iCCup stated that ISL won't be affiliated with the server anymore. It was iCCup StarLeague till this happened; now its named International StarLeague. If they wanted to ban Game, they would've done it then; with excessive bm, it was possible to do so.
I don't know when the whole drama began; all i know is when Sayle/NoOne and couple of other admins quit. If you read the thread, you'll see Eywa bashing at Gecko. Gecko's an admin who's been banned 3 times before as Admin (bm reasons) yet he's been coming back. Some admins got fed up and quit the team, including NoOne who was the SA of BW section.
On July 05 2011 20:18 hauton wrote: Seems pretty cut and dry to me - unless Game explicitly told iCCup officials that he would be selling replay packs for profit from the very beginning, iCCup had every right and reason to shut him down for being a manipulative leech.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/6445/wtflocked.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/8574/wtflocked2.jpg)
lulz
byebye
![[image loading]](http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad83/FFC-Ifrit/derpderpherp.jpg)
