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Hello,
The situation with Game started when the guy start call to my admin team retarded, etc. Insult to the people who is working for you by FREE, is not the best way to keep friends.
At iccup, can´t support to someone who make money with our free service. This is the second reason about why you, Game, wont be supported by my admin team.
Its 100% true that this kind of tournaments keeps the community active, but no the whole community is playing the tournament. With ISL, about 85% of our complaints came from ISL ladder and we were over capacity to help everyone.
So, iccup gave you banners, promotion, ladder support, an almost abusers-free server, and a lot of admin time for free, and what we got? Your insults your disrespect.
We cant be sit down seeing how you make money and using our service for you.
Is not true that ISL give us promotion. iccup doesnt need promotion.
Is not an easy decision for us (specially for me), dont allow to my team helps you. And yes, its my decision, no Paladin decision. I know that money tournaments gets the sympathy of community, but we cant accept that our admin team works for free for your bussiness.
Im not in the position to valorate if money prizes, or pay for replay pack its legal, allowed or not. I prefere that Ant, iccup owner, decide about this. But its my responsability to protect to my admin team (in consequence the whole ladder), of insults of someone who wants professional admins when we just have FREE people using their FREE time for help people for get a good experience in our ladder.
I hope none blames about iccup.TV or iccup super admins, who can get a different vision about this situation.
Sadly we can give to the community a perfect admin team. We would like to, but we gives you what we have.
We are improving our system, our rules, our super admins, our trials, everything, as hard as we can. But never, never, never will be perfect. There is not exist a perfect ladder, but we are proud of to be here, after many years, enjoying with our players of the best ladder than SC-BW has had in his history.
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Australia7069 Posts
the best ladder than SC-BW has had in his history.
is that a joke?
seriously? in terms of ladders, brain and fish right now > iccup by a long way, not to mention older ladders like WGT and PGT and whatever.
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iccup is better than pgt and wgt but only because of lan latency, i agree about brain and fish though.
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On July 03 2011 22:51 Pads wrote:
iccup is better than pgt and wgt but only because of lan latency, i agree about brain and fish though.
But since iCCup didn't invent LL, but MasterOfChaos did, it's obviously nothing that can go to them.
If PGT and WGT and everything still were around, they would have had LL right away, too!
btw, the point that 85% of the complaint were from ISL only shows how dead the server was before, considering that all these people obviously either played on their ISL account instead, or they wouldn't have even laddered on your server.
Best proof you could give to show that the ISL only helped iCCup in ladder population.
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I finally read the entire story. And so basically Game had ICCUP do him a favor running these tournaments for free, in which game was gaining money by people who would pay for replays. I completely understand their decision. He was also a dick to the admins working free for him?
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On July 03 2011 23:06 JediGamer wrote:
I finally read the entire story. And so basically Game had ICCUP do him a favor running these tournaments for free, in which game was gaining money by people who would pay for replays. I completely understand their decision. He was also a dick to the admins working free for him?
And you can't "retire" if you never were a pro. When the SC1 scene was active Game was a 2nd or third tier player at best, only competing with top players off of ICCUP when the AH was working (for some reason ><). Later on iccup once it was able to be hacked he became more a lot more active on iccup.
No, he was using the money to help support future tournaments and make a bigger and better ISL2.
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On July 03 2011 23:09 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 23:06 JediGamer wrote:
I finally read the entire story. And so basically Game had ICCUP do him a favor running these tournaments for free, in which game was gaining money by people who would pay for replays. I completely understand their decision. He was also a dick to the admins working free for him?
And you can't "retire" if you never were a pro. When the SC1 scene was active Game was a 2nd or third tier player at best, only competing with top players off of ICCUP when the AH was working (for some reason ><). Later on iccup once it was able to be hacked he became more a lot more active on iccup. No, he was using the money to help support future tournaments and make a bigger and better ISL2.
Weren't the admins and iccup working for free? What was the money supporting? The really small prizepool?
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On July 03 2011 22:08 LG)cheloman wrote:
We cant be sit down seeing how you make money and using our service for you.
Is not true that ISL give us promotion. iccup doesnt need promotion.
First question, did you mean that we cannot just wait on the side seeing how you make money?
Second, if the previous answer is "yes", why not? If people are willing to help for free, and it's in your interest for events to be organized, why cannot you allow people to make money off it? It's like an app store. People make money off your platform, but at the same time make your platform much better.
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Australia7069 Posts
On July 03 2011 23:15 JediGamer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 23:09 L_Master wrote:On July 03 2011 23:06 JediGamer wrote:
I finally read the entire story. And so basically Game had ICCUP do him a favor running these tournaments for free, in which game was gaining money by people who would pay for replays. I completely understand their decision. He was also a dick to the admins working free for him?
And you can't "retire" if you never were a pro. When the SC1 scene was active Game was a 2nd or third tier player at best, only competing with top players off of ICCUP when the AH was working (for some reason ><). Later on iccup once it was able to be hacked he became more a lot more active on iccup. No, he was using the money to help support future tournaments and make a bigger and better ISL2. Weren't the admins and iccup working for free? What was the money supporting? The really small prizepool?
Game paid noone and joekim for their work. he didn't pay himself as far as i know, and sayle refused payment.
the rest of the money was towards future prize pools. game wasn't just selling replays and pocketing all the cash
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On July 03 2011 22:59 LML wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 22:51 Pads wrote:
iccup is better than pgt and wgt but only because of lan latency, i agree about brain and fish though. But since iCCup didn't invent LL, but MasterOfChaos did, it's obviously nothing that can go to them. If PGT and WGT and everything still were around, they would have had LL right away, too! btw, the point that 85% of the complaint were from ISL only shows how dead the server was before, considering that all these people obviously either played on their ISL account instead, or they wouldn't have even laddered on your server. Best proof you could give to show that the ISL only helped iCCup in ladder population.
i know this is true, but it doesn't make pgt and wgt better ^^.
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@LG)cheloman
Game became hostile towards admins because he was the victim of abuse. Under my direct orders not to, a certain admin (not Paladin, he wasn't even part of the team at the time) sitebanned Game for being rude. He was not being rude towards admins, but towards the people who could not bother themselves to read the information provided in his original post about the ISL. The rudeness did not consist of any bm, it was only a disrespectful tone. After this incident, I unbanned Game and instructed the admin to completely ignore him. Defying me once again, the admin calls Game an idiot and bans him from the admin channel. This admin has been removed from the team several times for abuse, yet keeps coming back under Ant's "control". His opinions about this: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/155/gecko.png/
"With ISL, about 85% of our complaints came from ISL ladder and we were over capacity to help everyone. "
What? I don't understand where you got this information. During the ISL, the only two peoeple I allowed to solve ISL complaints were myself and Sayle. It was MAYBE 25%, which was absolutely no problem for two people. Also, please do not give the entire admin team credit. Myself, Sayle, Game, JoeKim, yeszero and Tenshi were the only ones doing counter-abuse for the event.
On July 03 2011 23:22 Kiante wrote:
Game paid noone and joekim for their work. he didn't pay himself as far as i know, and sayle refused payment.
the rest of the money was towards future prize pools. game wasn't just selling replays and pocketing all the cash
I refused the cash as well.
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On July 03 2011 23:50 DeuS wrote:@LG)cheloman Game became hostile towards admins because he was the victim of abuse. Under my direct orders not to, a certain admin (not Paladin, he wasn't even part of the team at the time) sitebanned Game for being rude. He was not being rude towards admins, but towards the people who could not bother themselves to read the information provided in his original post about the ISL. The rudeness did not consist of any bm, it was only a disrespectful tone. After this incident, I unbanned Game and instructed the admin to completely ignore him. Defying me once again, the admin calls Game an idiot and bans him from the admin channel. This admin has been removed from the team several times for abuse, yet keeps coming back under Ant's "control". His opinions about this: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/155/gecko.png/"With ISL, about 85% of our complaints came from ISL ladder and we were over capacity to help everyone. " What? I don't understand where you got this information. During the ISL, the only two peoeple I allowed to solve ISL complaints were myself and Sayle. It was MAYBE 25%, which was absolutely no problem for two people. Also, please do not give the entire admin team credit. Myself, Sayle, Game, JoeKim, yeszero and Tenshi were the only ones doing counter-abuse for the event. Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 23:22 Kiante wrote:
Game paid noone and joekim for their work. he didn't pay himself as far as i know, and sayle refused payment.
the rest of the money was towards future prize pools. game wasn't just selling replays and pocketing all the cash I refused the cash as well.
Oh shit, someone actually laying a hammer on 'behind the scenes'
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Since you guys are arguing about whether PGT / WGT or iCCup was better, i'm just going to throw it out there that i always thought Gamei was the best ladder ever, then PGT and so on. But I had the best ladder experience on Gamei server, was so fun, maybe not a lot of people will remember Gamei Ladder....
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On July 01 2011 11:01 ammeL wrote:
Whatever happened, happened. Things happen for a reason. iCCUP has their points, Game has his. No one is going to win in this battle, it seems. It seems iCCUP's decision is permanent (since IPBans were made).
This is how I see it:
If Game wanted to charge for replays, which he indicated to the public on March 31st (as he had created a thread back then saying he could charge for replays), I don't see the big deal. Actually, if anything, it's a good thing. He mentioned that the proceeds would be going to the next big tournament. That's a good thing, isn't it? That means it'd be a bigger tournament, draw more attention, and there would be more Brood War activity. All of this would be taking place on iCCUP; thus, the player activity and popularity of iCCUP would rise. This is a good thing for iCCUP and a good thing for the players participating in the tournament (since the prize pool would be bigger). Not to mention, all the hard work and dedication that goes into running such a big tournament - why not let some of the admins/people working hard take a little share. In the end, they are working for the community, and essentially, with the passion and pose that they ran things, I believe they deserved a little something aside from respect and gratitude.
That leads me to the viewpoint of iCCUP.
iCCUP wanted royalty fees since Game was charging for replays and they wanted some share of it, too (I'm not sure if this is exactly what happened since some of those screenshots were unclear). Nonetheless, iCCUP wanted some sort of compensation from ISL. Now, what I have to say about this is that why on earth would iCCUP ever do this? Like I mentioned in the previous paragraph, the "donation" (in a sense), from the purchasing of replays was going to make a bigger and better tournament which, in return, would make a bigger and better iCCUP. iCCUP would have gotten more attention and, I'm sure iCCUP earns money through ads and whatnot; thus, with more player activity, they'd be earning more revenue anyways. And since Game would have been bringing such activity to iCCUP, why would they care? They should've been happy about it. And then, I'm unclear of what took place about Game flaming them and whatnot, but there was no reason to IPBan the guy who did so much, made iCCUP bigger during the brink of death, etc.
It seems that there was greed and corruption amongst the iCCUP staff. Wanting fees for the work of another was not necessary of iCCUP. Not to mention, it's not like Game pulled that on anyone last second saying he'd charge money for replays. He did this early on (about a month ago). Furthermore, it was for the better of the community as a whole. And since iCCUP does host this server and do a lot for the community, I don't see why they would be against this? They should have wanted to join Game and his endeavors and aim to revive a community we once had.
Either way, what's done is done now. There was some sort miscommunication, greed, corruption, etc going on and it seems that the final cuts have been made. The only thing that can be done now is if iCCUP realizes what idiocy they have committed...
All in all - great work, Game. We were friends for a while on B.net for the last few years, played games together, and had some talks. Best of luck; and we all know you were doing this for the community and no other selfish reason. Some people just won't understand and let their power trips get to them. Can't do anything about it, man.
Best wishes, be safe, and hope to see you around.
Best post of the thread.
Agreed.
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On July 03 2011 23:50 DeuS wrote:@LG)cheloman Game became hostile towards admins because he was the victim of abuse. Under my direct orders not to, a certain admin (not Paladin, he wasn't even part of the team at the time) sitebanned Game for being rude. He was not being rude towards admins, but towards the people who could not bother themselves to read the information provided in his original post about the ISL. The rudeness did not consist of any bm, it was only a disrespectful tone. After this incident, I unbanned Game and instructed the admin to completely ignore him. Defying me once again, the admin calls Game an idiot and bans him from the admin channel. This admin has been removed from the team several times for abuse, yet keeps coming back under Ant's "control". His opinions about this: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/155/gecko.png/"With ISL, about 85% of our complaints came from ISL ladder and we were over capacity to help everyone. " What? I don't understand where you got this information. During the ISL, the only two peoeple I allowed to solve ISL complaints were myself and Sayle. It was MAYBE 25%, which was absolutely no problem for two people. Also, please do not give the entire admin team credit. Myself, Sayle, Game, JoeKim, yeszero and Tenshi were the only ones doing counter-abuse for the event. Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 23:22 Kiante wrote:
Game paid noone and joekim for their work. he didn't pay himself as far as i know, and sayle refused payment.
the rest of the money was towards future prize pools. game wasn't just selling replays and pocketing all the cash I refused the cash as well.
lol Justin, making public awareness of iCCup is pretty pointless. There are always going to be people who under any circumstance won't agree with you due to the mini-theory they've already conjured up in their head.
However, what he posted is true. I was very angry during ISL that people asked me the same questions 90-300 times a day that was clearly printed in every news story about it. Somehow they knew of the event and caught all of the details of the event, except the ones that mattered. Hence in my original post I mention "geckoxp removed all of our messages back and forth from my inbox's," because he was the entire reason anything between me and iCCup broke out. *ENTIRE REASON* To this day he is the one controlling Paladin:
+ Show Spoiler + [9:26:25 PM] Justin: the poor english makes it sound like you're terminating the isl2
[9:27:05 PM] Paladin: the statement is pretty clear ... Sayle admitted to abusing ... what else is needed?
[9:27:22 PM] Justin: "We regret the drama around the KISL, an event generously sponsored by some BW Enthusiasts and now organized by LRM)Noone, and wish to terminate it."
[9:27:29 PM] Paladin: what?
[9:27:34 PM] Justin: it is not clear
[9:27:34 PM] Paladin: wtf?
[9:27:34 PM] Justin: at all
[9:27:50 PM] Paladin: I gave gecko a textfile
[9:27:55 PM] Paladin: let me look at news
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rofl I totally called that Paladin was Gecko's smurf. The worst moron in Iccup history.
User was warned for this post
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On July 03 2011 22:42 Kiante wrote:is that a joke? seriously? in terms of ladders, brain and fish right now > iccup by a long way, not to mention older ladders like WGT and PGT and whatever.
Maybe you dont remember, but I ran PGTour too, as ladder super admin, and was the only admin solving complaints when ELOs system was online. So Im pretty sure about iccup is a lot better.
WGTour never was better than us. They used to solve some complaints with publics comments, etc. I have a lot of respect of WGTour, but some of their admins, were too bad.
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Poll: Do you think ISL2 is being mishandled by Iccup admins?Yes (49) 79% No (13) 21% 62 total votes Your vote: Do you think ISL2 is being mishandled by Iccup admins? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
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On July 02 2011 09:01 Kiante wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 06:00 Reyis wrote:On July 02 2011 00:20 Kiante wrote:On July 01 2011 23:47 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On July 01 2011 23:24 LML wrote:On July 01 2011 10:06 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On July 01 2011 10:03 Eywa- wrote:
Was having a conversation with Masterbreti in admin channel, Gecko came in and started attacking me because I was talking in the channel, so I'm like "I'm not bming anyone". And he's like no in fact you wont be talking to anyone today. Chat bans me, no reason for the chat ban, just out of spite. man u want be lrm)game 2.0 ? stop provoced admins., i really start hate u and ur comments All I see you do lately is praise iCCup and their admins as if they were holy saints to bring us the word of the messias. What you are saying in your post right there is that you think it's okay if the iCCup Admins abuse their power like this, but we have to be quiet about it? That's blasphemy, and maybe you've just not had the right experiences yourself yet which blures your eyes. That Sayle got banned for this is of course a right decision, which every website would have done, and he knows it and admits it, as sad as it is, I personally love his casting alot and think he is a nice guy to talk to, but he knew what he was doing and he knew that he was going to get busted eventually, it's just a matter of time. Game knew that to some extend, too, with all the incidents he had, it was a matter of time, it was drastic, yes, many actions by iCCup have not been correct, though, no matter how you look at it, some of it isn't even mentioned in any of this threads. Many people's opinions are lonely based on what they were able to get to know from here, while alot more happened, and Game is just one of many who faced such things. imo.paladin is proly the best head admin that iccup,and he start a project 1.defend the new generation of players(noobs) 2.He dont care who is who,u broke rules get BAN! i respect this, 3.Where is the power abue by him ?, i like sayle cast too,who no ? but this not mean he can spy admin archives and tell all to game and check the msg of locked account,i bet he do this. and take screens.for much that u like those guys help bw community his personal fight with iccup destroy all too,if u think iccup is a shit just dont join,go fish or brain,I love iccup and i love bw,i dont join in personal fight of game vs iccup and the new asshole eywa that think he is somethng here,.....he is another stupid wit not brain that cant think by his self,anyway gl this meatball on his retirement In retort. lets think about what was going on pre-paladin. We had many tournaments running, good casting going every weeklend, lots of money being injected into the scene. post paladin: everything is turning to shit. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm this is coming from an ex iccup admin; i do agree with paladin being one of the worst admin ever in history of iccup, but if you want to comment on issues and disputes like this as a third party, you should be atleast objective on this issue. it was the sc2 that made iccup lose most of its prestige/power/fame, not admins. believe me there were many similar stuff happening back in the day, before the release of sc2 and non of those would try to get this much attention. maybe it is because of the scene that have turned into after sc2 got released and made every little thing get more important and bigger than it is supposed to be :p i was never an iccup admin.... i've been playing bw on iccup since late 2009. I remember TSL2, that was cool, ISL1, sayles weekend casts, scene starting to pick up. then paladin banning everyone important. in my experience, paladin = the root of the problem.
i didnt mean you, it was me.
about the issue; there were lots of admins in the past that were huge fail aswell but none of their mistakes have gotten this much publicity. well i guess sc2 have also helped the bw community to get more closer and connected via butchering the numbers, must be a good thing. shame that good people like Game etc have to leave the scene but people shouldnt give up as long as there are others who are a part of this community and loving the game no matter what.
On July 02 2011 10:15 iCafeMotoNotDead wrote:
I made an TLnet account just to say this
LRM)Game you are a baby
Grow up.
User was banned for this post.
lol i hope u r not the real icafemoto hahah
G_G
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@ nOoNe
I didn't get paid either, but if I did.. I would donate to a greater cause:
His name is Gary. He likes Skittles.
User was warned for this post
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EPT
