OK , so less than a week after the killing of OBL is this Obama trying to use his new found popularity to enact what would be a seriously unpopular policy?
If you remember , this was touted in the UK a few years ago.Cars are installed with electronic tracking devices and tracked by satellites , they are charged low rates for driving on rural roads and high rates for travelling on busy freeways or highways.
The UK proposal was met with around 1.6 million people signing an online petition over on the number10.go UK e-petition website making it the most popular petition ever to be on there.
Will Americans kick up such a stink or are they still in a happy daze after the death of Bin Laden? Why use road pricing when the tax on gasoline does pretty much the same thing but for far less overheads and beurocracy? Maybe Obama will find some allies in the far left green movement , they love raising taxes.
The Obama administration has floated a transportation authorization bill that would require the study and implementation of a plan to tax automobile drivers based on how many miles they drive.
The plan is a part of the administration's Transportation Opportunities Act, an undated draft of which was obtained this week by Transportation Weekly.
The White House, however, said the bill is only an early draft that was not formally circulated within the administration.
“This is not an administration proposal," White House spokeswoman Jennifer Psaki said. "This is not a bill supported by the administration. This was an early working draft proposal that was never formally circulated within the administration, does not taken into account the advice of the president’s senior advisers, economic team or Cabinet officials, and does not represent the views of the president.”
News of the draft follows a March Congressional Budget Office report that supported the idea of taxing drivers based on miles driven.
Among other things, CBO suggested that a vehicle miles traveled (VMT) tax could be tracked by installing electronic equipment on each car to determine how many miles were driven; payment could take place electronically at filling stations.
The CBO report was requested by Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-N.D.), who has proposed taxing cars by the mile as a way to increase federal highway revenues.
The proposal seems to follow up on that idea in section 2218 of the draft bill. That section would create, within the Federal Highway Administration, a Surface Transportation Revenue Alternatives Office. It would be tasked with creating a "study framework that defines the functionality of a mileage-based user fee system and other systems."
The department seemed to be aware of the need to prepare the public for what would likely be a controversial change to the way highway funds are collected. For example, the office is called on to serve a public-relations function, as the draft says it should "increase public awareness regarding the need for an alternative funding source for surface transportation programs and provide information on possible approaches."
The draft bill says the "study framework" for the project and a public awareness communications plan should be established within two years of creating the office, and that field tests should begin within four years.
The office would be required to consider four factors in field trials: the capability of states to enforce payment, the reliability of technology, administrative costs and "user acceptance." The draft does not specify where field trials should begin.
The new office would be funded a total of $300 million through fiscal 2017 for the project.
Wait, but would this tax commuters just as much? It doesn't seem fair for people who are required to drive 40+ miles a day to pay a tax simply to work.
office is called on to serve a public-relations function, as the draft says it should "increase public awareness regarding the need for an alternative funding source for surface transportation programs and provide information on possible approaches."
I feel like theres a better way to spend $300 million.. Like investing it directly in what their goal of all this is.
“This is not an administration proposal," White House spokeswoman Jennifer Psaki said. "This is not a bill supported by the administration. This was an early working draft proposal that was never formally circulated within the administration, does not taken into account the advice of the president’s senior advisers, economic team or Cabinet officials, and does not represent the views of the president.”
When you consider that people already have to pay taxes on gasoline, the tires, the brakes, the vehicle, and taxes that fund the roads, how can one even think to draft such legislation?
I'd like to know who came up with the idea of it since it wasn't circulated through the administration.
Fox news shall be entertaining for the next couple of days. This is obviously going to be hugely unpopular with the US. We already pay out the ass for automobiles. As someone who utilizes public transportation and travels little by his own car, I don't really have a problem with it.
I don't get it. Why would you mention stuff about popularity and political points with OBL when this is in the article you quoted:
“This is not an administration proposal," White House spokeswoman Jennifer Psaki said. "This is not a bill supported by the administration. This was an early working draft proposal that was never formally circulated within the administration, does not taken into account the advice of the president’s senior advisers, economic team or Cabinet officials, and does not represent the views of the president.”
They should do what they do in Europe, and instead of wasting money attaching these things onto cars just tax gas heavier...more gas use still goes punished but in a less roundabout way.
“This is not an administration proposal," White House spokeswoman Jennifer Psaki said. "This is not a bill supported by the administration. This was an early working draft proposal that was never formally circulated within the administration, does not taken into account the advice of the president’s senior advisers, economic team or Cabinet officials, and does not represent the views of the president.”
The CBO report was requested by Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-N.D.), who has proposed taxing cars by the mile as a way to increase federal highway revenues.
Title of thread needs to be changed. This is in no way shape or form affiliated with Obama or his administration.
On May 08 2011 12:28 mprs wrote: I don't get it. Why would you mention stuff about popularity and political points with OBL when this is in the article you quoted:
“This is not an administration proposal," White House spokeswoman Jennifer Psaki said. "This is not a bill supported by the administration. This was an early working draft proposal that was never formally circulated within the administration, does not taken into account the advice of the president’s senior advisers, economic team or Cabinet officials, and does not represent the views of the president.”
EDIT: Damn it Sonuvbob beat me
Cuz Fox News will ignore that line and 40% of all Republicans will believe from the bottom of their heart that Obama wants to tax their cars even more.
Though it's not anything official, the fact that this is even floating around means that some part of the white house or the legislature has considered it right?
In any case I agree with OP that raising tax on gasoline would basically do the same thing.
The only thing I wonder is what subsections of the entire automobile universe will be left out of such a tracing/taxing system - ex: would only private citizens be taxed? taxi fleets? trucking companies? agriculture vehicles? Busses?
“This is not an administration proposal," White House spokeswoman Jennifer Psaki said. "This is not a bill supported by the administration. This was an early working draft proposal that was never formally circulated within the administration, does not taken into account the advice of the president’s senior advisers, economic team or Cabinet officials, and does not represent the views of the president.”
...
I gotta agree with the "..." response lol.
Besides, I don't see a reason why commuters and truck drivers should be penalized; there doesn't seem to be any way to distinguish the gas guzzlers from the hybrid cars if this proposal ever were to truly start to circulate, which are more of a problem, I would think.
On May 08 2011 12:28 mprs wrote: I don't get it. Why would you mention stuff about popularity and political points with OBL when this is in the article you quoted:
“This is not an administration proposal," White House spokeswoman Jennifer Psaki said. "This is not a bill supported by the administration. This was an early working draft proposal that was never formally circulated within the administration, does not taken into account the advice of the president’s senior advisers, economic team or Cabinet officials, and does not represent the views of the president.”
EDIT: Damn it Sonuvbob beat me
It's spin , of course the admistration is in favour of the proposal. If they weren't why not veto the 300 million(!!) in funding for it?
The US has gasoline prices that are among the lowest in the world, and has cars that are among the cheapest and best in the world. Don't know why people are complaining about "paying out the ass"
God damn.... in America you pay for 1 Gallon of fuel what we in the UK pay for 1 Litre of fuel and you complain about gas prices lol.....
I bet your road tax is cheaper too and ur insurance..... in fact last time i went to america everything apart from games and DVD's was about 2/3rds the price i would have paid in the UK.
All ur tax rates are stupidly low, thats why you have SO MUCH DEBT....that and the two wars your last president got you in to and dragged our asses into as well.
“This is not an administration proposal," White House spokeswoman Jennifer Psaki said. "This is not a bill supported by the administration. This was an early working draft proposal that was never formally circulated within the administration, does not taken into account the advice of the president’s senior advisers, economic team or Cabinet officials, and does not represent the views of the president.”
The CBO report was requested by Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-N.D.), who has proposed taxing cars by the mile as a way to increase federal highway revenues.
Title of thread needs to be changed. This is in no way shape or form affiliated with Obama or his administration.
The title and the OP both need to be changed. Honestly, the thread should probably be closed. This is an early-stage bill that hasn't reviewed by the president or his cabinet. It isn't an official proposal.
This isn't news and the OP is full of misinformation and misrepresentations.
“This is not an administration proposal," White House spokeswoman Jennifer Psaki said. "This is not a bill supported by the administration. This was an early working draft proposal that was never formally circulated within the administration, does not taken into account the advice of the president’s senior advisers, economic team or Cabinet officials, and does not represent the views of the president.”
The CBO report was requested by Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-N.D.), who has proposed taxing cars by the mile as a way to increase federal highway revenues.
Title of thread needs to be changed. This is in no way shape or form affiliated with Obama or his administration.
The title and the OP both need to be changed. Honestly, the thread should probably be closed. This is an early-stage bill that hasn't reviewed by the president or his cabinet. It isn't an official proposal.
This isn't news and the OP is full of misinformation and misrepresentations.
If there is nothing to the OP then why are they chucking 300 million at the proposal. Whatever , enjoy being tracked and paying higher prices to drive.
“This is not an administration proposal," White House spokeswoman Jennifer Psaki said. "This is not a bill supported by the administration. This was an early working draft proposal that was never formally circulated within the administration, does not taken into account the advice of the president’s senior advisers, economic team or Cabinet officials, and does not represent the views of the president.”
The CBO report was requested by Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-N.D.), who has proposed taxing cars by the mile as a way to increase federal highway revenues.
Title of thread needs to be changed. This is in no way shape or form affiliated with Obama or his administration.
The title and the OP both need to be changed. Honestly, the thread should probably be closed. This is an early-stage bill that hasn't reviewed by the president or his cabinet. It isn't an official proposal.
This isn't news and the OP is full of misinformation and misrepresentations.
But it will be so much fun when we get a flame war because of people who post on here without actually reading the entire OP, let alone the article!
Moderator bans hwaiting!
In all seriousness, I agree with you. I think we should wait for an official bill and announcement before anything even remotely close to an objective thread gets created for something like this.
On May 08 2011 12:28 mprs wrote: I don't get it. Why would you mention stuff about popularity and political points with OBL when this is in the article you quoted:
“This is not an administration proposal," White House spokeswoman Jennifer Psaki said. "This is not a bill supported by the administration. This was an early working draft proposal that was never formally circulated within the administration, does not taken into account the advice of the president’s senior advisers, economic team or Cabinet officials, and does not represent the views of the president.”
EDIT: Damn it Sonuvbob beat me
It's spin , of course the admistration is in favour of the proposal. If they weren't why not veto the 300 million(!!) in funding for it?
A few points: 1. The funding can't be blocked if the bill hasn't even been voted on. The funding hasn't even been approved. 2. This isn't even an official bill yet, much less law. 3. 300 million is essentially nothing in Washington dollars.
“This is not an administration proposal," White House spokeswoman Jennifer Psaki said. "This is not a bill supported by the administration. This was an early working draft proposal that was never formally circulated within the administration, does not taken into account the advice of the president’s senior advisers, economic team or Cabinet officials, and does not represent the views of the president.”
The CBO report was requested by Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-N.D.), who has proposed taxing cars by the mile as a way to increase federal highway revenues.
Title of thread needs to be changed. This is in no way shape or form affiliated with Obama or his administration.
The title and the OP both need to be changed. Honestly, the thread should probably be closed. This is an early-stage bill that hasn't reviewed by the president or his cabinet. It isn't an official proposal.
This isn't news and the OP is full of misinformation and misrepresentations.
If there is nothing to the OP then why are they chucking 300 million at the proposal. Whatever , enjoy being tracked and paying higher prices to drive.
Read it again. If the proposal remains intact until the bill is finally proposed, and then makes it through committee, and then survives a vote in the house, and then survives a vote in the senate, and then makes it into the final version of the bill (after reconciling house and senate versions), and the president signs it, THEN they'll be paying $300 million.
There's almost no chance this proposal will ever make it into an actual bill, and even less chance any bill containing it would ever pass.
I -garuntee you- business will have a bigger problem with this and it would benefit the average citizen. EVERYTHING gets transported: gas, food, clothes, random shit? Iunno, way to much to list. These things get transported by people hired to drive trucks blahblahblah long boring story short: people with money pay people to drive around to make them more money. The roads have always suffered because of this but a street qualifies as just some bullshit "everyone pays equally" economic affair and corporations laughed at their success.
People who just drive around their city and shit have nothing to fear if this takes place. This is clearly aimed at the transportation of large international corporations.
On May 08 2011 12:38 emythrel wrote: God damn.... in America you pay for 1 Gallon of fuel what we in the UK pay for 1 Litre of fuel and you complain about gas prices lol.....
I bet your road tax is cheaper too and ur insurance..... in fact last time i went to america everything apart from games and DVD's was about 2/3rds the price i would have paid in the UK.
All ur tax rates are stupidly low, thats why you have SO MUCH DEBT....that and the two wars your last president got you in to and dragged our asses into as well.
On May 08 2011 12:35 johanngrunt wrote: The US has gasoline prices that are among the lowest in the world, and has cars that are among the cheapest and best in the world. Don't know why people are complaining about "paying out the ass"
Big cities (1 million+) in the US dont have the forms of mass transit like most others in the world, and I believe on average americans work further from home as well. Every city here isnt like New York where you can hop on a subway or grab a taxi, or simply walk, and we dont have systems set in place that allow us to bike everywhere like some other major cities. My mom actually has to drive 15 minutes to a bus stop that goes to where she works in order to save gas money. Soooooo yeah, paying 4.30 for a gallon of gas does suck when you need to drive 45 minutes (or longer) to and from work every day.
On May 08 2011 12:38 emythrel wrote: God damn.... in America you pay for 1 Gallon of fuel what we in the UK pay for 1 Litre of fuel and you complain about gas prices lol.....
I bet your road tax is cheaper too and ur insurance..... in fact last time i went to america everything apart from games and DVD's was about 2/3rds the price i would have paid in the UK.
All ur tax rates are stupidly low, thats why you have SO MUCH DEBT....that and the two wars your last president got you in to and dragged our asses into as well.
There is a saying: in England 100 miles is a long distance, in America 100 years is a long time. Everything in this country is spread out a lot. That's the way things were built up from the beginning. It also means we end up using a lot more gas than you do.
Taxes might seem low when you just look at income taxes alone, but if you're making less than 200k a year then federal income taxes are less than half of your tax expenditure. The reality is that we have a huge problem of a growing tax burden on a smaller and smaller subset of the population: people making 50-250k per year. The really rich have tax loopholes they can exploit (for instance, did you know that CEO bonuses are only taxed as capital gains at a 10% tax rate?) and currently only about 50% of the population even pays taxes at all.
Taxes are too low for people making 7+ figures, but if you tax people making 50-250k any harder they simply won't be able to spend as much money. And if they don't spend as much money, then exactly how do you plan to instigate a demand side stimulus to the economy?
On May 08 2011 12:38 emythrel wrote: God damn.... in America you pay for 1 Gallon of fuel what we in the UK pay for 1 Litre of fuel and you complain about gas prices lol.....
I bet your road tax is cheaper too and ur insurance..... in fact last time i went to america everything apart from games and DVD's was about 2/3rds the price i would have paid in the UK.
All ur tax rates are stupidly low, thats why you have SO MUCH DEBT....that and the two wars your last president got you in to and dragged our asses into as well.
On May 08 2011 12:35 johanngrunt wrote: The US has gasoline prices that are among the lowest in the world, and has cars that are among the cheapest and best in the world. Don't know why people are complaining about "paying out the ass"
Big cities in the us dont have the forms of mass transit like most others in the world, and I believe on average americans work further from home as well. Every city isnt like New York where you can hop on a subway or grab a taxi, or simply walk. My mom actually has to drive 15 minutes to a bus stop that goes to where she works in order to save gas money. Soooooo yeah, paying 4.30 for a gallon of gas does suck when you need to drive 45 minutes (or longer) to and from work every day.
' Holy shit she drives 15 min to a bus stop and then busses? In my city (Windsor Ontario) I drive 15 min and I consider it a "medium" drive with university being 21 minutes away. I'm one of the furthest away work employees with most people living like 5-10 min drive away. That is some crazy shit. It's a 35 min bus ride and I would kill myself before driving to a bus stop to take the bus.
Also: is that common practice? Is there are parking lot for the bus stop area? Does she have to pay for that parking lot?
Also x2: I bought 20 dollars of gas today: got 14.3 litres. How does that compare to other peoples' gas prices' who deal in litres / care about converting it to miles. fuck miles
“This is not an administration proposal," White House spokeswoman Jennifer Psaki said. "This is not a bill supported by the administration. This was an early working draft proposal that was never formally circulated within the administration, does not taken into account the advice of the president’s senior advisers, economic team or Cabinet officials, and does not represent the views of the president.”
The CBO report was requested by Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-N.D.), who has proposed taxing cars by the mile as a way to increase federal highway revenues.
Title of thread needs to be changed. This is in no way shape or form affiliated with Obama or his administration.
The title and the OP both need to be changed. Honestly, the thread should probably be closed. This is an early-stage bill that hasn't reviewed by the president or his cabinet. It isn't an official proposal.
This isn't news and the OP is full of misinformation and misrepresentations.
If there is nothing to the OP then why are they chucking 300 million at the proposal. Whatever , enjoy being tracked and paying higher prices to drive.
Rofl you are so dumb. I agree with you on the tracking and on an even more interesting side note: there's been talk about tracking all new cars and how amazing a fully tracked automobile transporation system would be for police work. But if you think this is worse than the insanely steady and high raise in gas for the last like 20 years then like I said at first, you're an idiot (implying you're so dumb).
America has had all the oil/gas it's needed for atleast the last 40 years. I admit in the 60's it wasn't unlimited oil for them but then they ended.
The principle of taxing you on how many miles you drive is great. (that was the whole point of the gas tax).. basically pay for what you use. (making all roads effectively government operated tollroads)
However, there are serious privacy issues with any method of doing so. Electronically tracking where all cars are is a Very bad idea privacy wise.
If they could produce an untamperable odometer, then it might be worthwhile. (but I seriously doubt they will)
Another option would be tracking when you got on or off a federal highway... actually making it like a tollroad. (that wouldn't have the privacy problems)
The general reason for doing this is the problem of electric/hybrid cars, Gas taxes charge you based on how much you drive, but someone with an SUV pays more...and someone with an electric car would pay no gas taxes... so they would driving on roads they didn't pay any taxes for.
As for US taxes v. European taxes... things in the US are cheaper because we get taxed on our Income...our stuff costs less (no VAT) but we get less (govt. takes a chunk out.) Although US taxes as a share of the economy are probably overall lower than most European countries not filled with tax cheats.
On May 08 2011 13:00 Krikkitone wrote: The principle of taxing you on how many miles you drive is great. (that was the whole point of the gas tax).. basically pay for what you use.
However, there are serious privacy issues with any method of doing so. Electronically tracking where cars are is a Very bad idea. If they could produce an untamperable odometer, then it might be worthwhile. (but I seriously doubt they will)
As for US taxes v. European taxes... things in the US are cheaper because we get taxed on our Income...our stuff costs less (no VAT) but we get less (govt. takes a chunk out.) Although US taxes as a share of the economy are probably overall lower than most European countries not filled with tax cheats.
Don't Europeans have a higher tax rate? something ridiculous like 50-60%?
That's how they get public amenities like free schooling and free healthcare.
On May 08 2011 13:00 Krikkitone wrote: The principle of taxing you on how many miles you drive is great. (that was the whole point of the gas tax).. basically pay for what you use.
However, there are serious privacy issues with any method of doing so. Electronically tracking where cars are is a Very bad idea. If they could produce an untamperable odometer, then it might be worthwhile. (but I seriously doubt they will)
As for US taxes v. European taxes... things in the US are cheaper because we get taxed on our Income...our stuff costs less (no VAT) but we get less (govt. takes a chunk out.) Although US taxes as a share of the economy are probably overall lower than most European countries not filled with tax cheats.
Don't Europeans have a higher tax rate? something ridiculous like 50-60%?
That's how they get public amenities like free schooling and free healthcare.
Europe does have more overall rates, but I was responding to someone earlier complaining about high prices of goods in Europe v. America. That is because Europe is more 'sales tax' based and the US is more 'income tax' based.
On May 08 2011 13:00 Krikkitone wrote: The principle of taxing you on how many miles you drive is great. (that was the whole point of the gas tax).. basically pay for what you use. (making all roads effectively government operated tollroads)
Make them toll roads then.
I don't see the reason for taxing mileage in general especially when cars drive on local roads or private road ways. If everyone gets a "transponder" in their car, tolling highways is going to be very simple. A general mileage tax appears to be general tax or money grab.
On May 08 2011 12:49 EmeraldSparks wrote: So basically, like a gas tax, except it hits people driving fuel-efficient cars harder than SUVs and trucks.
On May 08 2011 12:38 emythrel wrote: God damn.... in America you pay for 1 Gallon of fuel what we in the UK pay for 1 Litre of fuel and you complain about gas prices lol.....
I bet your road tax is cheaper too and ur insurance..... in fact last time i went to america everything apart from games and DVD's was about 2/3rds the price i would have paid in the UK.
All ur tax rates are stupidly low, thats why you have SO MUCH DEBT....that and the two wars your last president got you in to and dragged our asses into as well.
You can bring up all the problems you want with the US, but just remember this...
On May 08 2011 13:00 Krikkitone wrote: The principle of taxing you on how many miles you drive is great. (that was the whole point of the gas tax).. basically pay for what you use. (making all roads effectively government operated tollroads)
Make them toll roads then.
I don't see the reason for taxing mileage in general especially when cars drive on local roads or private road ways. If everyone gets a "transponder" in their car, tolling highways is going to be very simple. A general mileage tax appears to be general tax or money grab.
On May 08 2011 12:49 EmeraldSparks wrote: So basically, like a gas tax, except it hits people driving fuel-efficient cars harder than SUVs and trucks.
Oh, and this, too.
The only objection to toll roads is the extra time and trouble with the billing. If there was an easy 0 trouble way to charge the toll, then I would support it. (as a replacement for the gas tax)
Toll roads have an advantage that you pay for the use of the road. Gas tax has the advantage that you pay for the environmental effects of your exhaust. (although those costs are hard to determine how to pay of, unlike building more roads, which is fairly easy)
EPT
beat me
