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On November 07 2011 03:30 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 03:06 Poopi wrote:On November 07 2011 02:58 silentblob wrote:
errrrrrr DRG TvZ anyone? DongRaeGu has sadly for him, been figured out by a lot of terrans. He is still a beast but there are too many terrans who can beat him (MKP did it 4-1, Bomber did it but it was only one bo3 at MLG, SuperNova in GSL, he beat Mvp but eeh I dunno), whereas NesTea seem to scare MKP and Mvp. So the best ZvTer is hard to call but since NesTea is almost untouchable in ZvZ and ZvP, so even if there are a lot of terrans in code S, NesTea is the absolute zerg king. SEn is overrated imo (for foreigners), he lost to SarenS (french terran) and Stephano (pink power zerg) at Assembly, he did good at Blizzcon but there was ESWC I think at the same time. I'd say Stephano for the best foreign zerg, then IdrA who stepped it up especially against terran. IdrA doesn't seem good in ZvZ thus Stephano is better in every match-up or maybe equal in ZvT (I mean MKP > IdrA at MLG and Stephano > MKP at ESWC but there is no transitivity so it's hard to call, they both have amazing ZvT) It's silly to rate Stephano on same ZvT with Idra because of one series that Idra lost because of one misjudgement... If you go by that logic, then Boxer>Stephano. IdrA>Boxer>Stephano. He won friggin macro games against Bomber. I'd say Idra's ZvT is much better than Stephano, and that Idra is close to the top Korean ZvT... Idra's ZvZ is hard to really chart out. We need more top level ZvZs, as the ony ones recently have been rolling Revival and a fluke loss to LiveZerg. Idra's ZvP is terrible though.
You mean Stephano > Boxer > Idra ? (Stephano is 4:3 vs Boxer, Idra is only 4 : 9)
More seriously, it makes perfect sense to put Stephano ZvT on the same level as Idra. It's really not clear who is the best in ZvT.
You are the one judging on a single serie (Idra vs Bomber) and reminding Stephano lost to Boxer.
But you should not forget that Bomber played the style Idra is the most confortable with. Idra is extremely greedy early game, this makes him strong in late game without early aggression, but on the flip side he loose easily to early pressure.
Since MLG rayleigh Idra has won 11 series in ZvT, and lost 12 (13 without the extended series)
He lost to Bomber, Sjow, Nobless, Trimaster, Rain, Morrow, NamhciR, Jinro, TheSTC, Morrow again, Marineking, Kas, and without extended series would as lost to Boxer
He won against Puma, Artist, Thorzain, Drewbie, Major, TLO, Boxer, Nemuke, Sjow, Sjow again, Select
So, as much as his victories against Puma or Bomber are impressive, you should not forget that he loose to 2nd tier foreigner. Stephano may not have played Bomber, but he hasn't lost to Morrow either.
And if you look at the games Stephano loosing to Boxer, you can clearly see that it was a fluke. His first loss was because he forgot to take control of the xelnaga tower and got caught off guard, otherwise he would have been far ahead. This is typically the kind of mistake one can expect from a tired player. His second loss was bad luck due to a base trade situation.
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On November 07 2011 04:38 Elean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 03:30 Aocowns wrote:On November 07 2011 03:06 Poopi wrote:On November 07 2011 02:58 silentblob wrote:
errrrrrr DRG TvZ anyone? DongRaeGu has sadly for him, been figured out by a lot of terrans. He is still a beast but there are too many terrans who can beat him (MKP did it 4-1, Bomber did it but it was only one bo3 at MLG, SuperNova in GSL, he beat Mvp but eeh I dunno), whereas NesTea seem to scare MKP and Mvp. So the best ZvTer is hard to call but since NesTea is almost untouchable in ZvZ and ZvP, so even if there are a lot of terrans in code S, NesTea is the absolute zerg king. SEn is overrated imo (for foreigners), he lost to SarenS (french terran) and Stephano (pink power zerg) at Assembly, he did good at Blizzcon but there was ESWC I think at the same time. I'd say Stephano for the best foreign zerg, then IdrA who stepped it up especially against terran. IdrA doesn't seem good in ZvZ thus Stephano is better in every match-up or maybe equal in ZvT (I mean MKP > IdrA at MLG and Stephano > MKP at ESWC but there is no transitivity so it's hard to call, they both have amazing ZvT) It's silly to rate Stephano on same ZvT with Idra because of one series that Idra lost because of one misjudgement... If you go by that logic, then Boxer>Stephano. IdrA>Boxer>Stephano. He won friggin macro games against Bomber. I'd say Idra's ZvT is much better than Stephano, and that Idra is close to the top Korean ZvT... Idra's ZvZ is hard to really chart out. We need more top level ZvZs, as the ony ones recently have been rolling Revival and a fluke loss to LiveZerg. Idra's ZvP is terrible though. You mean Stephano > Boxer > Idra ? (Stephano is 4:3 vs Boxer, Idra is only 4 : 9) More seriously, it makes perfect sense to put Stephano ZvT on the same level as Idra. It's really not clear who is the best in ZvT. You are the one judging on a single serie (Idra vs Bomber) and reminding Stephano lost to Boxer. But you should not forget that Bomber played the style Idra is the most confortable with. Idra is extremely greedy early game, this makes him strong in late game without early aggression, but on the flip side he loose easily to early pressure. Since MLG rayleigh Idra has won 11 series in ZvT, and lost 12 (13 without the extended series) He lost to Bomber, Sjow, Nobless, Trimaster, Rain, Morrow, NamhciR, Jinro, TheSTC, Morrow again, Marineking, Kas, and without extended series would as lost to Boxer He won against Puma, Artist, Thorzain, Drewbie, Major, TLO, Boxer, Nemuke, Sjow, Sjow again, Select So, as much as his victories against Puma or Bomber are impressive, you should not forget that he loose to 2nd tier foreigner. Stephano may not have played Bomber, but he hasn't lost to Morrow either. And if you look at the games Stephano loosing to Boxer, you can clearly see that it was a fluke. His first loss was because he forgot to take control of the xelnaga tower and got caught off guard, otherwise he would have been far ahead. This is typically the kind of mistake one can expect from a tired player. His second loss was bad luck due to a base trade situation.
Except Morrow is not a 2nd tier player. And you're obviously biased, you must be a fanboy of stephano who despite every other zerg foreigner. You're saying that Stephano lost because of fatigue and bad luck but that's the same for almost everyone (idra had iem china ipl3 mlg orlando and then eswc).
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On November 07 2011 04:33 McFeser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 02:16 mordk wrote:On November 07 2011 02:10 Aocowns wrote:On November 07 2011 02:06 taoito wrote:Can't believe there are people who voted Idra as the Zerg King. He's unquestionably the NA Zerg King, but they need to be reminded that there exists other places outside than NA lol. These maybe very well the same people who think USA is the only country in the world  Maybe they vote him because he is top3 foreign zerg? Top5 foreign in general? It is silly to vote anything but Nestea as Zerg King as of now... At least in terms of skill Imo, it goes like this 1.- NesTea 2.- DRG 3.- Losira I don't think there's any way either Stephano or Idra can be placed top 3 overall right now. The rest would go on sth like this: 4.- CoCa 5.- Curious 6.- July 7.- Idra 8.- Sen 9.- Stephano 10.- DIMAGA Whether the foreigners listed can go in the top 5... I don't know, I find the korean zergs more solid overall, and the foreigners need to step into korea to prove themselves yet. Out of those listed, I think Stephano and DIMAGA have the biggest potential, but DIMAGA doesn't want to go to korea so I think his level won't rise too much. Then there's other korean zergs like BBongBBong, Line, JookTo, Seal, which are pretty difficult to rank considering how little we get to see them, but they've shown insane potential. July is not very good. Curious has nerve issues. As for Stephano and IdrA I will not rate them until they fight more Koreans, that being said Stephano certainly rates higher than Sen and July.
July so far is still a consistent code S player and you somehow rate him lower then stephano that hasyet to beat code S players?
What?
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On November 07 2011 04:48 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 04:33 McFeser wrote:On November 07 2011 02:16 mordk wrote:On November 07 2011 02:10 Aocowns wrote:On November 07 2011 02:06 taoito wrote:Can't believe there are people who voted Idra as the Zerg King. He's unquestionably the NA Zerg King, but they need to be reminded that there exists other places outside than NA lol. These maybe very well the same people who think USA is the only country in the world Maybe they vote him because he is top3 foreign zerg? Top5 foreign in general? It is silly to vote anything but Nestea as Zerg King as of now... At least in terms of skill Imo, it goes like this 1.- NesTea 2.- DRG 3.- Losira I don't think there's any way either Stephano or Idra can be placed top 3 overall right now. The rest would go on sth like this: 4.- CoCa 5.- Curious 6.- July 7.- Idra 8.- Sen 9.- Stephano 10.- DIMAGA Whether the foreigners listed can go in the top 5... I don't know, I find the korean zergs more solid overall, and the foreigners need to step into korea to prove themselves yet. Out of those listed, I think Stephano and DIMAGA have the biggest potential, but DIMAGA doesn't want to go to korea so I think his level won't rise too much. Then there's other korean zergs like BBongBBong, Line, JookTo, Seal, which are pretty difficult to rank considering how little we get to see them, but they've shown insane potential. July is not very good. Curious has nerve issues. As for Stephano and IdrA I will not rate them until they fight more Koreans, that being said Stephano certainly rates higher than Sen and July. July so far is still a consistent code S player and you somehow rate him lower then idra and stephano? What.
July reminds me of ensnare/clide
Good enough to get past ro32, not good enough to get wins past that.
He seems much more like a GSTL player then GSL, to me. And he's retiring soon
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Russian Federation174 Posts
kr - nestea
non_kr - stephano
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I think Nestea still hold Zerg crown no doubt: overall supersolid play...
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On November 07 2011 04:48 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 04:33 McFeser wrote:On November 07 2011 02:16 mordk wrote:On November 07 2011 02:10 Aocowns wrote:On November 07 2011 02:06 taoito wrote:Can't believe there are people who voted Idra as the Zerg King. He's unquestionably the NA Zerg King, but they need to be reminded that there exists other places outside than NA lol. These maybe very well the same people who think USA is the only country in the world Maybe they vote him because he is top3 foreign zerg? Top5 foreign in general? It is silly to vote anything but Nestea as Zerg King as of now... At least in terms of skill Imo, it goes like this 1.- NesTea 2.- DRG 3.- Losira I don't think there's any way either Stephano or Idra can be placed top 3 overall right now. The rest would go on sth like this: 4.- CoCa 5.- Curious 6.- July 7.- Idra 8.- Sen 9.- Stephano 10.- DIMAGA Whether the foreigners listed can go in the top 5... I don't know, I find the korean zergs more solid overall, and the foreigners need to step into korea to prove themselves yet. Out of those listed, I think Stephano and DIMAGA have the biggest potential, but DIMAGA doesn't want to go to korea so I think his level won't rise too much. Then there's other korean zergs like BBongBBong, Line, JookTo, Seal, which are pretty difficult to rank considering how little we get to see them, but they've shown insane potential. July is not very good. Curious has nerve issues. As for Stephano and IdrA I will not rate them until they fight more Koreans, that being said Stephano certainly rates higher than Sen and July. July so far is still a consistent code S player and you somehow rate him lower then stephano that hasyet to beat code S players? What?
July's a really volatile player who relies on aggression and taking his opponent off guard. I guess he is a good player in that regard, but a smart player could easily beat him.
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On November 07 2011 04:51 Active.815 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 04:48 Assirra wrote:On November 07 2011 04:33 McFeser wrote:On November 07 2011 02:16 mordk wrote:On November 07 2011 02:10 Aocowns wrote:On November 07 2011 02:06 taoito wrote:Can't believe there are people who voted Idra as the Zerg King. He's unquestionably the NA Zerg King, but they need to be reminded that there exists other places outside than NA lol. These maybe very well the same people who think USA is the only country in the world Maybe they vote him because he is top3 foreign zerg? Top5 foreign in general? It is silly to vote anything but Nestea as Zerg King as of now... At least in terms of skill Imo, it goes like this 1.- NesTea 2.- DRG 3.- Losira I don't think there's any way either Stephano or Idra can be placed top 3 overall right now. The rest would go on sth like this: 4.- CoCa 5.- Curious 6.- July 7.- Idra 8.- Sen 9.- Stephano 10.- DIMAGA Whether the foreigners listed can go in the top 5... I don't know, I find the korean zergs more solid overall, and the foreigners need to step into korea to prove themselves yet. Out of those listed, I think Stephano and DIMAGA have the biggest potential, but DIMAGA doesn't want to go to korea so I think his level won't rise too much. Then there's other korean zergs like BBongBBong, Line, JookTo, Seal, which are pretty difficult to rank considering how little we get to see them, but they've shown insane potential. July is not very good. Curious has nerve issues. As for Stephano and IdrA I will not rate them until they fight more Koreans, that being said Stephano certainly rates higher than Sen and July. July so far is still a consistent code S player and you somehow rate him lower then idra and stephano? What. July reminds me of ensnare/clide Good enough to get past ro32, not good enough to get wins past that. He seems much more like a GSTL player then GSL, to me. And he's retiring soon
Didn't he get to semifinals on August? I think he's still up there, he's gonna retire soon though 
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On November 07 2011 04:51 Active.815 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 04:48 Assirra wrote:On November 07 2011 04:33 McFeser wrote:On November 07 2011 02:16 mordk wrote:On November 07 2011 02:10 Aocowns wrote:On November 07 2011 02:06 taoito wrote:Can't believe there are people who voted Idra as the Zerg King. He's unquestionably the NA Zerg King, but they need to be reminded that there exists other places outside than NA lol. These maybe very well the same people who think USA is the only country in the world Maybe they vote him because he is top3 foreign zerg? Top5 foreign in general? It is silly to vote anything but Nestea as Zerg King as of now... At least in terms of skill Imo, it goes like this 1.- NesTea 2.- DRG 3.- Losira I don't think there's any way either Stephano or Idra can be placed top 3 overall right now. The rest would go on sth like this: 4.- CoCa 5.- Curious 6.- July 7.- Idra 8.- Sen 9.- Stephano 10.- DIMAGA Whether the foreigners listed can go in the top 5... I don't know, I find the korean zergs more solid overall, and the foreigners need to step into korea to prove themselves yet. Out of those listed, I think Stephano and DIMAGA have the biggest potential, but DIMAGA doesn't want to go to korea so I think his level won't rise too much. Then there's other korean zergs like BBongBBong, Line, JookTo, Seal, which are pretty difficult to rank considering how little we get to see them, but they've shown insane potential. July is not very good. Curious has nerve issues. As for Stephano and IdrA I will not rate them until they fight more Koreans, that being said Stephano certainly rates higher than Sen and July. July so far is still a consistent code S player and you somehow rate him lower then idra and stephano? What. July reminds me of ensnare/clide Good enough to get past ro32, not good enough to get wins past that. He seems much more like a GSTL player then GSL, to me. And he's retiring soon
In GSL august he was the only non terran in round of 4 only knocked out by MVP...
at least try to have some support with your claims.
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France12907 Posts
On November 07 2011 05:00 McFeser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 04:48 Assirra wrote:On November 07 2011 04:33 McFeser wrote:On November 07 2011 02:16 mordk wrote:On November 07 2011 02:10 Aocowns wrote:On November 07 2011 02:06 taoito wrote:Can't believe there are people who voted Idra as the Zerg King. He's unquestionably the NA Zerg King, but they need to be reminded that there exists other places outside than NA lol. These maybe very well the same people who think USA is the only country in the world Maybe they vote him because he is top3 foreign zerg? Top5 foreign in general? It is silly to vote anything but Nestea as Zerg King as of now... At least in terms of skill Imo, it goes like this 1.- NesTea 2.- DRG 3.- Losira I don't think there's any way either Stephano or Idra can be placed top 3 overall right now. The rest would go on sth like this: 4.- CoCa 5.- Curious 6.- July 7.- Idra 8.- Sen 9.- Stephano 10.- DIMAGA Whether the foreigners listed can go in the top 5... I don't know, I find the korean zergs more solid overall, and the foreigners need to step into korea to prove themselves yet. Out of those listed, I think Stephano and DIMAGA have the biggest potential, but DIMAGA doesn't want to go to korea so I think his level won't rise too much. Then there's other korean zergs like BBongBBong, Line, JookTo, Seal, which are pretty difficult to rank considering how little we get to see them, but they've shown insane potential. July is not very good. Curious has nerve issues. As for Stephano and IdrA I will not rate them until they fight more Koreans, that being said Stephano certainly rates higher than Sen and July. July so far is still a consistent code S player and you somehow rate him lower then stephano that hasyet to beat code S players? What? July's a really volatile player who relies on aggression and taking his opponent off guard. I guess he is a good player in that regard, but a smart player could easily beat him.
He beat Ryung quite convincingly (despite 3-2 it was kinda one sided) not so long ago, despite SlayerS preparation and I guess Ryung is kinda "smart" since he was/is so good at tvt. He took a game off of Mvp with a freaking baneling bust despite being July (thus Mvp KNEW there will be attempts of busts at least once)
He is very good, as well as Clide, you can't compare him to Ensnare (who is good too but was stuck at ro32-> L ro16)
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to put in in superhero-universe words:
nestea - he is mr fantastic, the oldest and wisest one, squeezing out the tasty juice to win
idra - human torch for obvious reasons
july - Dr. doom because probably most jealous of nesteas success
dongraegu - the thing, came out of nowhere and is specifically used to make terrans cry
losira - invisible woman, cos hes nesteas bitch
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On November 07 2011 05:04 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 05:00 McFeser wrote:On November 07 2011 04:48 Assirra wrote:On November 07 2011 04:33 McFeser wrote:On November 07 2011 02:16 mordk wrote:On November 07 2011 02:10 Aocowns wrote:On November 07 2011 02:06 taoito wrote:Can't believe there are people who voted Idra as the Zerg King. He's unquestionably the NA Zerg King, but they need to be reminded that there exists other places outside than NA lol. These maybe very well the same people who think USA is the only country in the world Maybe they vote him because he is top3 foreign zerg? Top5 foreign in general? It is silly to vote anything but Nestea as Zerg King as of now... At least in terms of skill Imo, it goes like this 1.- NesTea 2.- DRG 3.- Losira I don't think there's any way either Stephano or Idra can be placed top 3 overall right now. The rest would go on sth like this: 4.- CoCa 5.- Curious 6.- July 7.- Idra 8.- Sen 9.- Stephano 10.- DIMAGA Whether the foreigners listed can go in the top 5... I don't know, I find the korean zergs more solid overall, and the foreigners need to step into korea to prove themselves yet. Out of those listed, I think Stephano and DIMAGA have the biggest potential, but DIMAGA doesn't want to go to korea so I think his level won't rise too much. Then there's other korean zergs like BBongBBong, Line, JookTo, Seal, which are pretty difficult to rank considering how little we get to see them, but they've shown insane potential. July is not very good. Curious has nerve issues. As for Stephano and IdrA I will not rate them until they fight more Koreans, that being said Stephano certainly rates higher than Sen and July. July so far is still a consistent code S player and you somehow rate him lower then stephano that hasyet to beat code S players? What? July's a really volatile player who relies on aggression and taking his opponent off guard. I guess he is a good player in that regard, but a smart player could easily beat him. He beat Ryung quite convincingly (despite 3-2 it was kinda one sided) not so long ago, despite SlayerS preparation and I guess Ryung is kinda "smart" since he was/is so good at tvt. He took a game off of Mvp with a freaking baneling bust despite being July (thus Mvp KNEW there will be attempts of busts at least once) He is very good, as well as Clide, you can't compare him to Ensnare (who is good too but was stuck at ro32-> L ro16)
Maybe your right then. I haven't watched the last few GSLs so maybe I am missing out on July's performance. That being said, his ZvZ is really holding him back and his ZvP doesn't seem to be that good (He beat MC last MLG which is okay, but he lost to HongUn and HuK).
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Really? Are there people who think Idra is a good player? Really?
User was warned for this post
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On November 07 2011 05:00 McFeser wrote:
July so far is still a consistent code S player and you somehow rate him lower then stephano that hasyet to beat code S players?
What?
Stephano would rip july's face off.
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On November 07 2011 03:30 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 03:06 Poopi wrote:On November 07 2011 02:58 silentblob wrote:
errrrrrr DRG TvZ anyone? DongRaeGu has sadly for him, been figured out by a lot of terrans. He is still a beast but there are too many terrans who can beat him (MKP did it 4-1, Bomber did it but it was only one bo3 at MLG, SuperNova in GSL, he beat Mvp but eeh I dunno), whereas NesTea seem to scare MKP and Mvp. So the best ZvTer is hard to call but since NesTea is almost untouchable in ZvZ and ZvP, so even if there are a lot of terrans in code S, NesTea is the absolute zerg king. SEn is overrated imo (for foreigners), he lost to SarenS (french terran) and Stephano (pink power zerg) at Assembly, he did good at Blizzcon but there was ESWC I think at the same time. I'd say Stephano for the best foreign zerg, then IdrA who stepped it up especially against terran. IdrA doesn't seem good in ZvZ thus Stephano is better in every match-up or maybe equal in ZvT (I mean MKP > IdrA at MLG and Stephano > MKP at ESWC but there is no transitivity so it's hard to call, they both have amazing ZvT) It's silly to rate Stephano on same ZvT with Idra because of one series that Idra lost because of one misjudgement... If you go by that logic, then Boxer>Stephano. IdrA>Boxer>Stephano. He won friggin macro games against Bomber. I'd say Idra's ZvT is much better than Stephano, and that Idra is close to the top Korean ZvT... Idra's ZvZ is hard to really chart out. We need more top level ZvZs, as the ony ones recently have been rolling Revival and a fluke loss to LiveZerg. Idra's ZvP is terrible though.
I agree. If Idra could just have Stephano's ZvP, that would be one beastly player.
On November 07 2011 05:14 Arcanne wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 05:00 McFeser wrote:
July so far is still a consistent code S player and you somehow rate him lower then stephano that hasyet to beat code S players?
What? Stephano would rip july's face off.
Maybe. But only because July's worst MU is ZvZ. It's hard to say how they compare in the other MU's
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Is there a third option for poll#2? Like, "I neither hate nor love IdrA"?
Nestea's the best. An absolute beast.
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On November 07 2011 04:43 Yaki wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 04:38 Elean wrote:On November 07 2011 03:30 Aocowns wrote:On November 07 2011 03:06 Poopi wrote:On November 07 2011 02:58 silentblob wrote:
errrrrrr DRG TvZ anyone? DongRaeGu has sadly for him, been figured out by a lot of terrans. He is still a beast but there are too many terrans who can beat him (MKP did it 4-1, Bomber did it but it was only one bo3 at MLG, SuperNova in GSL, he beat Mvp but eeh I dunno), whereas NesTea seem to scare MKP and Mvp. So the best ZvTer is hard to call but since NesTea is almost untouchable in ZvZ and ZvP, so even if there are a lot of terrans in code S, NesTea is the absolute zerg king. SEn is overrated imo (for foreigners), he lost to SarenS (french terran) and Stephano (pink power zerg) at Assembly, he did good at Blizzcon but there was ESWC I think at the same time. I'd say Stephano for the best foreign zerg, then IdrA who stepped it up especially against terran. IdrA doesn't seem good in ZvZ thus Stephano is better in every match-up or maybe equal in ZvT (I mean MKP > IdrA at MLG and Stephano > MKP at ESWC but there is no transitivity so it's hard to call, they both have amazing ZvT) It's silly to rate Stephano on same ZvT with Idra because of one series that Idra lost because of one misjudgement... If you go by that logic, then Boxer>Stephano. IdrA>Boxer>Stephano. He won friggin macro games against Bomber. I'd say Idra's ZvT is much better than Stephano, and that Idra is close to the top Korean ZvT... Idra's ZvZ is hard to really chart out. We need more top level ZvZs, as the ony ones recently have been rolling Revival and a fluke loss to LiveZerg. Idra's ZvP is terrible though. You mean Stephano > Boxer > Idra ? (Stephano is 4:3 vs Boxer, Idra is only 4 : 9) More seriously, it makes perfect sense to put Stephano ZvT on the same level as Idra. It's really not clear who is the best in ZvT. You are the one judging on a single serie (Idra vs Bomber) and reminding Stephano lost to Boxer. But you should not forget that Bomber played the style Idra is the most confortable with. Idra is extremely greedy early game, this makes him strong in late game without early aggression, but on the flip side he loose easily to early pressure. Since MLG rayleigh Idra has won 11 series in ZvT, and lost 12 (13 without the extended series) He lost to Bomber, Sjow, Nobless, Trimaster, Rain, Morrow, NamhciR, Jinro, TheSTC, Morrow again, Marineking, Kas, and without extended series would as lost to Boxer He won against Puma, Artist, Thorzain, Drewbie, Major, TLO, Boxer, Nemuke, Sjow, Sjow again, Select So, as much as his victories against Puma or Bomber are impressive, you should not forget that he loose to 2nd tier foreigner. Stephano may not have played Bomber, but he hasn't lost to Morrow either. And if you look at the games Stephano loosing to Boxer, you can clearly see that it was a fluke. His first loss was because he forgot to take control of the xelnaga tower and got caught off guard, otherwise he would have been far ahead. This is typically the kind of mistake one can expect from a tired player. His second loss was bad luck due to a base trade situation. Except Morrow is not a 2nd tier player. And you're obviously biased, you must be a fanboy of stephano who despite every other zerg foreigner. You're saying that Stephano lost because of fatigue and bad luck but that's the same for almost everyone (idra had iem china ipl3 mlg orlando and then eswc).
Besides Idra, can you give me the name of a single good or even just decent zerg that Morrow has beaten after deciding to play TvZ ? Morrow is a fantastic player, but he has just switched race. He wins against Idra because he knows early game timings, and Idra isn't good at dealing with it.
It just illustrates my point perfectly, Idra wins the macro game against top koreans, but he looses against early pressure from a foreigner off racing. While being very impressive his ZvT is not without weakness.
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On November 07 2011 05:14 happyness wrote:
Maybe. But only because July's worst MU is ZvZ. It's hard to say how they compare in the other MU's
Heres one proxy for you. Stephano makes Huk look like a diamond leaguer. Huk picks July for his Code S group.
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EPT
