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On April 07 2011 05:02 whatthefat wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2011 04:54 Jordbo wrote:On April 07 2011 04:53 Phinix wrote:On April 07 2011 04:48 Jordbo wrote:On April 07 2011 04:23 Phinix wrote:On April 07 2011 03:35 Jordbo wrote:On April 06 2011 21:33 Blaize wrote:On April 06 2011 21:29 Jordbo wrote:On April 06 2011 13:06 Zavi_ wrote:
Also, don't blame luck for not finding your opponent first. You always have the choice to send out more scouting workers, you just decide not to. Because your economy suffers too much from it. But you always have a choice to get the required information as fast as you want it. I wanted to throw up when I read your stupid post. Edit: so you're saying because I have the option to sacrifice economy my concern is invalid? For a guy who wants to ask a slightly off the wall question. Attacking the people who are giving you a comment here and there and trying to help educate you with their opinions, is probably not the best policy. Unless your just a troll then by all means keep it up, I now have a running bet on how long you'll last here. I was looking for enlightenment and insight. People who have commented so far have granted me very little. And what's up with insulting me by inplying their worthless posts somehow was educating me? Edit: basically what I'm saying is this: I am not looking for average Joe's random opinion. I am looking for insight from authorities. Sorry about not making this clear enough. No, you weren't looking for enlightenment and insight. Judging by your responses to people giving you their honest input, you were looking to flame anyone who disagreed with you. It's apparent you don't like Randomized spawn locations; that's fine. However, many people agree that the need to scout more than one potential spawn position enhances strategic value and potential. As one quick example,... if you start on a map with 3 relatively close spawn positions that your opponent can potentially inhabit, both parties may more strongly consider early aggression, and should also be more aware of that possibility from their opponent! Because there's a greater likelihood that you can use the element of surprise if the opponent's scout doesn't reach you in time, a different dynamic has just opened up... This dynamic change is something that many may find appealing. It's a bit less of the humdrum "I know exactly what to do" feeling and instead may inspire greater excitement, fear, and anticipation. What you fail to grasp is that I dont care about random noobs' opinions. I was asking if someone knew anything about this. I was not asking for random opinions. Who are you hoping to get response from, exactly? I don't think David Kim posts here all that often. I tried my luck. Others have already spelled it out for you: More possible spawns = more possible strategies = richer dynamics. Imperfect information improves the game so long as all crucial information is obtainable by active scouting (as spawn location obviously is). Same reason we have fog of war. Frankly, this would be better in the simple questions simple answers thread.
Thank you for sharing your ignorance. I suppose I am looking the wrong place for intelligent posts. So much for my faith in teamliquid.
User was banned for this post.
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think about it this way.
i'm sure you know the difference between 2 player map and 3-4 player map.
then compare that knowledge to a 6-8 player map if it was to be played 1v1, hunters for example.
FE builds will be more rewarding while cheese rush will not in a larger/more player map.
hidden rushes like dt rush will be more effective.
all in all it does have to with randomness/luck factor, which is not a bad thing at all.
(for example i played vs a protoss as terran on shattered, i scouted late and found him last, he nexus first. i couldnt do anything(early pressure) because i found out too late and i was planning on FE myself, so i decided to double expand)
i'm all for close position vs long position chances on a same map, i've always wished for a half island 4 player map where players can spawn as no island or half island.
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On April 07 2011 03:35 Jordbo wrote:
basically what I'm saying is this: I am not looking for average Joe's random opinion. I am looking for insight from authorities. Sorry about not making this clear enough.
You do realize that this is a community site, right? the people who are reading your thread and commenting on it are as close as you're going to get to authorities. You probably didn't notice, but one of the many responses you received was from Superouman, who's map iCCup Testbug has been featured in major tournaments, including MLG Pro Circuit.
FYI it's a 3 player map.
Insulting people is not the way to get what you want, especially considering that you don't need to be a Blizzard game designer to understand the reasoning behind map design.
To my knowledge, there are three major reasons for having a 3/4 spawn map:
1. To force players to scout actively
2. To increase the number of bases
3. to facilitate different playstyles (example: close position metal favors aggressive play & leads to shorter games, while cross allows for a longer game, more macro, all that jazz.
The logic of the people posting here isn't that flawed, You just don't seem to be accepting our reasoning.
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Don't start a post with "Dear Team Liquid" if the post isn't, in fact, addressed to Team Liquid.
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On April 07 2011 05:06 Jordbo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2011 05:02 whatthefat wrote:On April 07 2011 04:54 Jordbo wrote:On April 07 2011 04:53 Phinix wrote:On April 07 2011 04:48 Jordbo wrote:On April 07 2011 04:23 Phinix wrote:On April 07 2011 03:35 Jordbo wrote:On April 06 2011 21:33 Blaize wrote:On April 06 2011 21:29 Jordbo wrote:On April 06 2011 13:06 Zavi_ wrote:
Also, don't blame luck for not finding your opponent first. You always have the choice to send out more scouting workers, you just decide not to. Because your economy suffers too much from it. But you always have a choice to get the required information as fast as you want it. I wanted to throw up when I read your stupid post. Edit: so you're saying because I have the option to sacrifice economy my concern is invalid? For a guy who wants to ask a slightly off the wall question. Attacking the people who are giving you a comment here and there and trying to help educate you with their opinions, is probably not the best policy. Unless your just a troll then by all means keep it up, I now have a running bet on how long you'll last here. I was looking for enlightenment and insight. People who have commented so far have granted me very little. And what's up with insulting me by inplying their worthless posts somehow was educating me? Edit: basically what I'm saying is this: I am not looking for average Joe's random opinion. I am looking for insight from authorities. Sorry about not making this clear enough. No, you weren't looking for enlightenment and insight. Judging by your responses to people giving you their honest input, you were looking to flame anyone who disagreed with you. It's apparent you don't like Randomized spawn locations; that's fine. However, many people agree that the need to scout more than one potential spawn position enhances strategic value and potential. As one quick example,... if you start on a map with 3 relatively close spawn positions that your opponent can potentially inhabit, both parties may more strongly consider early aggression, and should also be more aware of that possibility from their opponent! Because there's a greater likelihood that you can use the element of surprise if the opponent's scout doesn't reach you in time, a different dynamic has just opened up... This dynamic change is something that many may find appealing. It's a bit less of the humdrum "I know exactly what to do" feeling and instead may inspire greater excitement, fear, and anticipation. What you fail to grasp is that I dont care about random noobs' opinions. I was asking if someone knew anything about this. I was not asking for random opinions. Who are you hoping to get response from, exactly? I don't think David Kim posts here all that often. I tried my luck. Others have already spelled it out for you: More possible spawns = more possible strategies = richer dynamics. Imperfect information improves the game so long as all crucial information is obtainable by active scouting (as spawn location obviously is). Same reason we have fog of war. Frankly, this would be better in the simple questions simple answers thread. Thank you for sharing your ignorance. I suppose I am looking the wrong place for intelligent posts. So much for my faith in teamliquid.
All you are doing is shutting down every post that actually answers your question in the OP. If you DON'T want the opinion of these people DON'T make a thread asking for it. There is a PM system you can use or did you "fail to grasp that"?
It is seriously annoying to read your overly aggressive attitude towards people who give actual answers to what you are looking for, but because they aren't the creators of SC you discount what they are saying.
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I'm pretty sure this guy was just trolling...
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It's kinda an interesting idea. 6pool and stuff wouldn't necessarily be stronger because people would just learn to scout earlier as they started dying to it . . . but I'd have to check, 'cuz maybe the build timings would make it a guessing game whether it's 6Pool or 6Hatch5Pool. . . but the question isn't whether it should be in the game (I think it'd be kiiinda cool, but it would basically become more chess-like -- see next paragraph) but why it was in originally.
Tradition is the #1 answer. When Brood War was first made it was made in the image of similar strategy games, and 1 of those similarities was imperfect information. As ridiculous as it sounds, the guy who said "It wouldn't be Starcraft without it" was completely right: It's just the way the game is made. Starcraft is a game played w/ imperfect information; football, chess, darts, pool, wife-carrying, all these games are played w/ perfect information. Just the type of game it is.
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EPT
