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On March 21 2011 23:16 TedJustice wrote:
The lack of lan isn't just about piracy.
That's a big factor I'm sure, but the biggest reason is because Blizzard wants to be in complete control of the experience you have while playing this game. They don't want any hacks, mods, or anything else (outside of things created with the Blizzard approved Galaxy Editor of course) that they themselves aren't responsible for.
They want you to pay for this game as a service rather than a product.
That's the direction games are moving toward these days.
As to why they can't give tournaments a special LAN version, it's probably a question of priority. They don't value tournaments as much as they claim to. What they value more are the majority of players, who don't even know tournaments exist.
Hacks are already abundant, and if you can hack it, you can mod it, so that point is moot.
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On March 21 2011 22:49 MichaelJLowell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 22:15 Synk wrote:
People trying to justify pirating is why the PC gaming market is so barren now. It's no different from stealing plain and simple and every game developer is losing millions of dollars a year to it ( on pc ), which is why so many are sticking to consoles where its much harder to pirate games. Negative. The reason the PC gaming market is so barren is that around 2000 and/or 2001, the sales divide between computer gaming and video game consoles was about two-to-one, meaning the personal computer as a platform was roughly even with the PlayStation and the Nintendo 64. That was the closest that sales ratio has ever been, and it's not much of a surprise that a lot of people consider the late nineties and early aughts to be the highest point in the history of computer game development. That ratio exploded as the PlayStation 2 took off in popularity, giving less incentive for companies to develop for personal computers. That incentive was then completely killed off as budgets continued to spiral out of control, as the industry became more corporate and those corporate suits decided there was no way to maximize profits with computer-oriented development. They especially weren't going to do it with an audience that has historically been entitled and very fickle about the product. You can see that simply in the way computer gamers respond to ports of games that were clearly created with consoles in mind.
Not to mention it's trivial to pirate console games and consoles actually got real HW inside now compared to older days when PC's lead by a huge huge margin.
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On March 21 2011 23:25 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 22:49 MichaelJLowell wrote:On March 21 2011 22:15 Synk wrote:
People trying to justify pirating is why the PC gaming market is so barren now. It's no different from stealing plain and simple and every game developer is losing millions of dollars a year to it ( on pc ), which is why so many are sticking to consoles where its much harder to pirate games. Negative. The reason the PC gaming market is so barren is that around 2000 and/or 2001, the sales divide between computer gaming and video game consoles was about two-to-one, meaning the personal computer as a platform was roughly even with the PlayStation and the Nintendo 64. That was the closest that sales ratio has ever been, and it's not much of a surprise that a lot of people consider the late nineties and early aughts to be the highest point in the history of computer game development. That ratio exploded as the PlayStation 2 took off in popularity, giving less incentive for companies to develop for personal computers. That incentive was then completely killed off as budgets continued to spiral out of control, as the industry became more corporate and those corporate suits decided there was no way to maximize profits with computer-oriented development. They especially weren't going to do it with an audience that has historically been entitled and very fickle about the product. You can see that simply in the way computer gamers respond to ports of games that were clearly created with consoles in mind. Not to mention it's trivial to pirate console games and consoles actually got real HW inside now compared to older days when PC's lead by a huge huge margin.
I was the only person I knew that didn't own a modded ps1...and then one of the only people I knew who didn't own a modded ps2.
And judging by Halo 2 online during it's later days... one of the few without a modded xbox.. cheating bastards. Shotguns that fire tank shells 
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I really want to play with my friend without lag due to my terribad internet connection >.< I would be the guinea pig for you guys, but I'm having trouble even starting the download (probably linked to my internet connection).
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Name ONE thing they added/removed that THE MAJORITY of the community(not only here on TL) appreciated?
like chat channels?
Sure enough, they want something that benefits them. blizzard is a cororation that exists to make money (oooh evil!), and not a nonprofit benevolent organization to bring you the best videogames at the lowest cost.
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On March 21 2011 23:23 Yettyman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 23:14 Gingerninja wrote:On March 21 2011 23:08 Yettyman wrote:
I would imagine that if a crack becomes very widespread Blizzard would drop support for the game. If it happens soon we may have to kiss the expansions goodbye. What would be the point of them creating games if a large portion of people are just going to bypass the need to buy the game.
I admit that bnet isn't always the most reliable and sometimes the lag is unbearable. However, they are a business that creates video games for profit.
Imagine if everyone just stole everything that they wanted. Obviously people don't care that they acting immorally and without any consideration of the consequences of their actions.
Sure the people that create the games are wealthy but what about the other people that work for the company or are associated with the video game making process.
There are secretaries, janitors, delivery men, manufacturers, store employees, etc.
You are not just pulling one over on Blizzard, you are hurting everyone in the process because if Blizzard ( or any industry) has to cut back to loss of profits they will start from the bottom up.
I still know that most people will say w/e the greedy corporation is evil and needs to be brought down as you step over the homeless man that lost his job because that same corporation had layoffs.
Besides all of that LAN will be great! No ones threatening to steal the game... we just want in our Legally bought copies.. the feature that everyone has asked for since day 1.. and that every other game since forever has offered. They have my money for game 1. I plan on giving them money for expansions 2 and 3... giving the fanbase something they are asking for in a product they'll be expected to shell out money for (lets not get it wrong... blizzard isn't making these expansions to be nice.. it's to make money) we ask, they give... they get money, we get enjoyment. 2 way transaction. No one here is threatening to steal the game but that doesn't mean that there aren't people that will. Also you knew before hand that LAN would not be in the game so you knew what would be in the game before you paid for it. So you got what they said you would get. Yes they are making expansion 2 and 3 for money but if they don't think that people will obtain then legally why bother releasing them? It isn't you ask for something. You don't go to them and say I want this game this way and this style with these features. They say I have this game with these features, do you want it? If yes you know what you were getting. If no then you don't buy it no money lost. LAN would be a good feature but if Blizzard doesn't want to do it then that is their choice as a business.
or they just do what their customers want since happy customers stay customers.
also in recent history tons of games sold great cause of their multiplayer in a age where evrything is crackable. as i said before there are steamless versions of all games but no one plays em cause it sucks.
having a good multiplayer and multiplayer platform ensures that the community stays on the legit stuff. thats the best form of anti pirating cause evrything can and will be cracked.
and really who cares about a few thousand asians that maybe couldnt even afford the game in legit ways playing with themselves on pirated stuff? do you think that is worth cutting features for the millions of legit users?
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While I doubt anyone is going to use this crack, it might motivate Blizzard to get a LAN version out sooner.
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On March 21 2011 23:16 TedJustice wrote:
The lack of lan isn't just about piracy.
That's a big factor I'm sure, but the biggest reason is because Blizzard wants to be in complete control of the experience you have while playing this game. They don't want any hacks, mods, or anything else (outside of things created with the Blizzard approved Galaxy Editor of course) that they themselves aren't responsible for.
They want you to pay for this game as a service rather than a product.
That's the direction games are moving toward these days.
As to why they can't give tournaments a special LAN version, it's probably a question of priority. They don't value tournaments as much as they claim to. What they value more are the majority of players, who don't even know tournaments exist.
I agree that Blizzard wants absolute control, but I disagree with you saying it's because they want to improve our gaming experience. Absence of LAN has so far done nothing in countering hacks. They're still just using their Warden and doing their usual ban waves every year or so. I believe that by far the two major reasons for them to get rid of LAN were:
1) Reduce piracy
2) Give them a complete control over the tournament scene to prevent KeSPA 2.0
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On March 21 2011 23:24 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 23:16 TedJustice wrote:
The lack of lan isn't just about piracy.
That's a big factor I'm sure, but the biggest reason is because Blizzard wants to be in complete control of the experience you have while playing this game. They don't want any hacks, mods, or anything else (outside of things created with the Blizzard approved Galaxy Editor of course) that they themselves aren't responsible for.
They want you to pay for this game as a service rather than a product.
That's the direction games are moving toward these days.
As to why they can't give tournaments a special LAN version, it's probably a question of priority. They don't value tournaments as much as they claim to. What they value more are the majority of players, who don't even know tournaments exist. Hacks are already abundant, and if you can hack it, you can mod it, so that point is moot.
I didn't say it was a good reason.
But that's the reason they use whenever they bring it up.
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On March 21 2011 23:32 TedJustice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 23:24 goiflin wrote:On March 21 2011 23:16 TedJustice wrote:
The lack of lan isn't just about piracy.
That's a big factor I'm sure, but the biggest reason is because Blizzard wants to be in complete control of the experience you have while playing this game. They don't want any hacks, mods, or anything else (outside of things created with the Blizzard approved Galaxy Editor of course) that they themselves aren't responsible for.
They want you to pay for this game as a service rather than a product.
That's the direction games are moving toward these days.
As to why they can't give tournaments a special LAN version, it's probably a question of priority. They don't value tournaments as much as they claim to. What they value more are the majority of players, who don't even know tournaments exist. Hacks are already abundant, and if you can hack it, you can mod it, so that point is moot. I didn't say it was a good reason. But that's the reason they use whenever they bring it up.
Well, yeah, they're never going to state the real reasons. Remember "we're going to make Bnet2.0 so good that you won't ever want lan"?
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On March 21 2011 23:28 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 23:23 Yettyman wrote:On March 21 2011 23:14 Gingerninja wrote:On March 21 2011 23:08 Yettyman wrote:
I would imagine that if a crack becomes very widespread Blizzard would drop support for the game. If it happens soon we may have to kiss the expansions goodbye. What would be the point of them creating games if a large portion of people are just going to bypass the need to buy the game.
I admit that bnet isn't always the most reliable and sometimes the lag is unbearable. However, they are a business that creates video games for profit.
Imagine if everyone just stole everything that they wanted. Obviously people don't care that they acting immorally and without any consideration of the consequences of their actions.
Sure the people that create the games are wealthy but what about the other people that work for the company or are associated with the video game making process.
There are secretaries, janitors, delivery men, manufacturers, store employees, etc.
You are not just pulling one over on Blizzard, you are hurting everyone in the process because if Blizzard ( or any industry) has to cut back to loss of profits they will start from the bottom up.
I still know that most people will say w/e the greedy corporation is evil and needs to be brought down as you step over the homeless man that lost his job because that same corporation had layoffs.
Besides all of that LAN will be great! No ones threatening to steal the game... we just want in our Legally bought copies.. the feature that everyone has asked for since day 1.. and that every other game since forever has offered. They have my money for game 1. I plan on giving them money for expansions 2 and 3... giving the fanbase something they are asking for in a product they'll be expected to shell out money for (lets not get it wrong... blizzard isn't making these expansions to be nice.. it's to make money) we ask, they give... they get money, we get enjoyment. 2 way transaction. No one here is threatening to steal the game but that doesn't mean that there aren't people that will. Also you knew before hand that LAN would not be in the game so you knew what would be in the game before you paid for it. So you got what they said you would get. Yes they are making expansion 2 and 3 for money but if they don't think that people will obtain then legally why bother releasing them? It isn't you ask for something. You don't go to them and say I want this game this way and this style with these features. They say I have this game with these features, do you want it? If yes you know what you were getting. If no then you don't buy it no money lost. LAN would be a good feature but if Blizzard doesn't want to do it then that is their choice as a business. or they just do what their customers want since happy customers stay customers. also in recent history tons of games sold great cause of their multiplayer in a age where evrything is crackable. as i said before there are steamless versions of all games but no one plays em cause it sucks. having a good multiplayer and multiplayer platform ensures that the community stays on the legit stuff. thats the best form of anti pirating cause evrything can and will be cracked. and really who cares about a few thousand asians that maybe couldnt even afford the game in legit ways playing with themselves on pirated stuff? do you think that is worth cutting features for the millions of legit users?
I agree that those of us that are legit are being punished for the faults of the pirates. That is just way of the internet. Since it is too difficult to go after those that are breaking the law they want to prevent it from being broken. They do this by taking away features that could weaken security.
However I feel that they could find a better solution, this is just the bes that they have right now.
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The community SCREAMS for LAN Blizzard, listen to the community please. Otherwise, the community will dump your money hungry ass. (directed towards activision)
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On March 21 2011 15:25 stormchaser wrote:
Interesting, but I don't see much advantage in this for us (I'm sure pirates are happy though) -_-
We can make custom ladders like Iccup and play competitively on maps that aren't total dogshit.
I think it's a good thing. It's also bound to happen, if the current ladder maps stay as is, a good crack is only a matter of time.
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I fail to see how a lack of LAN gives Blizzard more control over tournaments. Do we believe that they have people sifting through battle.net accounts so that they can ban people mid tournament and hold them hostage for more royalties? How does having more people playing on their servers, which have no advertisements except for their own product, help them in the slightest? If you could hold a tournament against blizzard's will with LAN, you could surely do it with battle.net as well.
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On March 21 2011 23:39 Gheed wrote:
I fail to see how a lack of LAN gives Blizzard more control over tournaments. Do we believe that they have people sifting through battle.net accounts so that they can ban people mid tournament and hold them hostage for more royalties? How does having more people playing on their servers, which have no advertisements except for their own product, help them in the slightest? If you could hold a tournament against blizzard's will with LAN, you could surely do it with battle.net as well.
I think it's more for the broadcasting thing. If i remember correctly the licence for tournaments is either free or 1cent or something. It's broadcasting the games that blizzard wants to keep a hold of. Don't get why they allow streaming if thats the case then cos tbh... things are moving away from tv. but that's a different topic for a different day.
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so it's working or not?
anybody check ?
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What's wrong with what we have now? Its not like it's inconvenient when we play the game online on bnet, cause it satisfies us with the necessities. Sure, we could have LAN, but at what cost? We don't need it, and it'll cost blizz alot. Now if this was about the absence of cross-server bnet, then i think it's worth ranting about.
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On March 21 2011 23:45 frodoguy wrote:
What's wrong with what we have now? Its not like it's inconvenient when we play the game online on bnet, cause it satisfies us with the necessities. Sure, we could have LAN, but at what cost? We don't need it, and it'll cost blizz alot. Now if this was about the absence of cross-server bnet, then i think it's worth ranting about.
in professional tournaments now, playing on bnet makes it so players have inconsistent and non-similar latencies, creating a variable that no matter how small still affects gameplay in a structured environment
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On March 21 2011 23:45 frodoguy wrote:
What's wrong with what we have now? Its not like it's inconvenient when we play the game online on bnet, cause it satisfies us with the necessities. Sure, we could have LAN, but at what cost? We don't need it, and it'll cost blizz alot. Now if this was about the absence of cross-server bnet, then i think it's worth ranting about.
At no cost. Blizzard already has the LAN client. It probably wouldn't take more than a week of work to implement it in the actual game client.
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On March 21 2011 23:43 Gingerninja wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 23:39 Gheed wrote:
I fail to see how a lack of LAN gives Blizzard more control over tournaments. Do we believe that they have people sifting through battle.net accounts so that they can ban people mid tournament and hold them hostage for more royalties? How does having more people playing on their servers, which have no advertisements except for their own product, help them in the slightest? If you could hold a tournament against blizzard's will with LAN, you could surely do it with battle.net as well. I think it's more for the broadcasting thing. If i remember correctly the licence for tournaments is either free or 1cent or something. It's broadcasting the games that blizzard wants to keep a hold of. Don't get why they allow streaming if thats the case then cos tbh... things are moving away from tv. but that's a different topic for a different day.
I don't think we should let Blizzard's goals dictate how we play. It's never worked longterm, and if significant amounts of the community stop using the "official" means of playing SC2, Blizzard would actually be forced to do something to please the more competitive side of the playerbase or risk losing thousands of customers.
Create a new ladder, and put the GSL, Iccup, and MLG maps on it, watch everyone from plat and above disappear from the real ladder.
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EPT
