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PvT I cannot beat the Thor+SCV rush
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wuddersup
United States228 Posts
Replay is here: (I'm the fake Idra) http://replayfu.com/r/HDbRXd | ||
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-Aura-
United States209 Posts
In terms of countering Thors, both void rays and dts do well against them. I also remember hearing on State of the Game that cannons do well to stop thor rushes, but I never never played verse it so I don't know if it's true. However, if you insist on going with gateway units, go more stalker heavy. Sentries are pointless because Thors destroy FFs, and I cant see zealots working too well because any competent player Thor rushing will probably have a bunch of marines following his Thors for high DPS versus your zealots. So basically, I'd say better scouting and altering your build works best. | ||
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terran151
Canada103 Posts
To successfully stop it you will have to have not expanded. If you see them going thores and not expanding with your observer, you should cancle your nexus if you are building it. Make a ton of stalkers you can make a concave around the top of your ramp and kill anyhting comming up. Not many scvs can repair the thore when on the ramp and stakers can target fire them fast. 3 gates cronoboosting units out should give you enough to stop this push. | ||
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DoctaD
35 Posts
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ArcangelDV
Venezuela4 Posts
On March 04 2011 07:19 terran151 wrote: Im at school so I cant watch the replay but I used to do this push every tvp on steps of war with great success. To successfully stop it you will have to have not expanded. If you see them going thores and not expanding with your observer, you should cancle your nexus if you are building it. Make a ton of stalkers you can make a concave around the top of your ramp and kill anyhting comming up. Not many scvs can repair the thore when on the ramp and stakers can target fire them fast. 3 gates cronoboosting units out should give you enough to stop this push. What the poster above me said, I use this build a lot after seeing it at Trumps stream (Im only 3.2k diamond but have had a lot of succes with it vs a lot of protoss masters on the ladder), and there are 2 things that kills me, mass stalkers with good position, usually the rush comes with 2 thors, 10-15 marines, and 12 SCVs, all the SCVs will be chasing one of the thors, if you focus fire with the stalkers the thor that doesnt have the SCVs around, they will take time to fully surround the other thor for repair and in that time the DPS of the stalkers rape the thor, specially in that map you posted the replay, because you have a ramp leading to your nat, if you make an arc on the top of the ramp, the thor wont even know what hit him, then just focus the second one, you need to have your stalkers already in good position so all of them attack the thor real quick. The second way I lose with it is to stargate play, usually to 2 gate-stargate, they contain me inside my base with the voids and some gateways and expand really fast, I cant really push out with thors and a handful of marines vs voids and gateways, then from there on Im just behind and usually lose. Hope it helps. | ||
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Jonas :)
United States511 Posts
On March 04 2011 07:28 DoctaD wrote: whenever i see terrans go for a tech build. i pump out a phoenix first. this phoenix can give me scouting and a good way to counter thors is, when they use their cannon on your immortal you can lift up your own immortal to cancel the cannon, and drop it back down to kill the thor. NO WAY, hahaha. That is awesome. But yeah generally I 1 to 3 gate expand (depending on positions) vs terran, and lay down a robo after my nexus and get out an observer to see what they are up to. If you see that they DON'T have an expansion, lay down a forge immediately because cannons are really good against most terran 1 base allins (and they cannot be targeted with strike cannon =D). It is OK to pull some probes from your expansion ifyou need to, because if you hold the all in you pretty much win because you'll have such a superior economy. When you see the push coming, run up to engage it with your army and see if you can get them to stim or throw down a PDD. If they do either of those things, just forcefield them off and retreat. This makes the push a lot weaker when it finally reaches your base. When it comes to actually engaging their army, you want your army RIGHT in front of your cannons. This is because your army can tank damage a lot better than the cannons can due to guardian shield. That and cannons have 7 range while stalkers and sentries have 6 range and 5 range, respectively. Yes, thors can break forcefields, but try to isolate their marines with your forcefields so they cannot all attack your dudes at once. | ||
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[Atomic]Peace
United States451 Posts
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FuzzyLord
253 Posts
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EmilA
Denmark4618 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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aloT
England1042 Posts
On March 04 2011 08:03 kcdc wrote: It really depends if you've expanded before it hits. If you haven't expanded, it shouldn't be hard to defend your choke with immortals + stalkers firing as he walks up your choke. If you're like me and you like to expand early vs T, the key to defending this push is flanking with zealots. The thor is there to tank damage as it's mass repaired while the marines DPS. Pump a ton of zealots, and when you see the thors setting out, take a little over half your army and move it out into the map to come from behind when he enters a choke. Then pincer at the last possible second to maximize your reinforcement advantage. The pincer allows you to quickly kill the marines and SCVs and makes your defense 100x more efficient. I can vouch that kcdc has had alot of experience dealing with thors! You always seem to be on the other end of them on terran streams (inflowyen/trump) ^___^ | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
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hitman133
United States1425 Posts
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[Atomic]Peace
United States451 Posts
On March 04 2011 08:09 hitman133 wrote: if you could scout it earlier, get DTs. That's the best counter to Thor rush cuz thor cost 300 mins, half of his SCVs is on the way to your base, that mean he need Mule at home to keep mining, so 1 base Terran can't scan you on time, just 4 gates and DTs This is not good advice. You need an obs or hallucination to scout this rush because good Terran's simply wont let you see enough in the early game. Once you've scouted it, there simply isn't enough time to go DTs. Even if there were, there are much better counters available. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
On March 04 2011 08:03 kcdc wrote: It really depends if you've expanded before it hits. If you haven't expanded, it shouldn't be hard to defend your choke with immortals + stalkers firing as he walks up your choke. If you're like me and you like to expand early vs T, the key to defending this push is flanking with zealots. The thor is there to tank damage as it's mass repaired while the marines DPS. Pump a ton of zealots, and when you see the thors setting out, take a little over half your army and move it out into the map to come from behind when he enters a choke. Then pincer at the last possible second to maximize your reinforcement advantage. The pincer allows you to quickly kill the marines and SCVs and makes your defense 100x more efficient. that could only apply to some certain map since flanking is kinda hard to do in open map such as xel naga. if you FE and vs this build, here are a few solution i found to be good: 1/ stalkers into blink: a lots of people agree this is the best solution counter thor build: basicly you have to put pressure on T while they are teching to thor, when they decided to move out, you have to use the terain to try to kite T army. Pick up as much SCV and marines as possible while minimum the damage recieve by hit and run. mean while pump zealots in base and teach to blink/charge with immo 2/ robo tech: this is a little more tricky, you want to keep the colossus count at maximum 2 (1 if you good in micro). the idea is to pick off scvs using 1 colossus while the rest of ur army take out the marines and > thor. This is good to hold off the first 2 thor but later on, Terran could get about 5 thors and push out 2nd wave with strike cannon, which happen to 1 shot colossus and immo... 3/ workers: this is the HARDEST solution available and really hard to execute: basicly since you are on 1 bases and hv worker adv, you should be able to pull probes as he is pulling his scv. the idea is to have 2 group control of probe try to surround and attack the thor to take all the surrounding spaces around it so scv cant repair. You have to do this on move command and only attack once u already surround it. Sounds dumb but it works for me lolol... | ||
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DrGetOnTop
Poland3 Posts
So what u do to stop this rush? OF Course scout with ur 1 stalker when u see only marines u can except a thor rush or some kind of banshee, raven play. (When there is a bunkeer its most likely 2nd option) if u dont see bunkeer and up the ramp are only marines build stalkers and obs --> immo and try to snipe as many units as possible and try not to lose anything. When u do this u achieve more time, less units from enemy and maybe u can cause fear of rushing. However if he still rush, simply kite with stalkers as much as possible to kill units around the thor to weaken army and then with immos from ur base. I dont see any problems in stoping it. | ||
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Enigmoid
United States48 Posts
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[Atomic]Peace
United States451 Posts
On March 04 2011 08:16 DrGetOnTop wrote: So what u do to stop this rush? OF Course scout with ur 1 stalker when u see only marines u can except a thor rush or some kind of banshee, raven play. (When there is a bunkeer its most likely 2nd option) if u dont see bunkeer and up the ramp are only marines build stalkers and obs --> immo and try to snipe as many units as possible and try not to lose anything. When u do this u achieve more time, less units from enemy and maybe u can cause fear of rushing. However if he still rush, simply kite with stalkers as much as possible to kill units around the thor to weaken army and then with immos from ur base. I dont see any problems in stoping it. It's not necessary to scout the main before obs, and it is often impossible. By the time you've scouted his base, all you have is 2 Zealots, 2 Stalkers, a Sentry, one Immortal producing, and minerals for an expansion. That's a fine opening against any build that isn't a fast expand. Thus, the only thing your scouting probe should be looking for (after confirming that the Terran has taken his gas) is a fast expansion. | ||
Chill
Calgary25996 Posts
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