• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:45
CEST 02:45
KST 09:45
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes56BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch0Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast
Tourneys
SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
ASL20 General Discussion Soulkey on ASL S20 BW General Discussion ASL TICKET LIVE help! :D NaDa's Body
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group C [ASL20] Ro16 Group D Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Borderlands 3 Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
i'm really bored guys
Peanutsc
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1443 users

Does zerg win and lose games the wrong way? - Page 2

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 8 9 10 Next All
Joroth
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States318 Posts
January 25 2011 00:09 GMT
#21
If you had just made a post saying "Zerg is too linear compared to other races" you would have saved a whole bunch of my time.
"you have buildings that are better than my race go fuck yourself" -IdrA
storm44
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
1293 Posts
January 25 2011 00:10 GMT
#22
On January 25 2011 08:59 Competent wrote:
All that room to try and explain something and you still make no sense. This simply looks like a post that is about 3000 characters too long to say zerg is UP.

So what I am going to boil this down to is, if you do not want responses like this, stop beating around the bush that you want buffs rather than just saying you think T or P is OP.



This.Whats funny is that every zerg try to justify their qq post by making it really long . Everyday a new LONGGGGGG post about how bad zerg is.
Salv
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada3083 Posts
January 25 2011 00:12 GMT
#23
To be honest, whenever there is a thread like this, is should really only apply to top players. I'm confident that very few masters, and no diamond or below ranked people are losing because of an imbalance. So many mistakes are made by players except the very top that it's an inefficient way to spend your time. Couple this with the subjective experience evidence, and this makes for a thread that is frankly unnecessary.
freestalker
Profile Joined March 2010
469 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-25 00:13:22
January 25 2011 00:13 GMT
#24
On January 25 2011 09:10 storm44 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2011 08:59 Competent wrote:
All that room to try and explain something and you still make no sense. This simply looks like a post that is about 3000 characters too long to say zerg is UP.

So what I am going to boil this down to is, if you do not want responses like this, stop beating around the bush that you want buffs rather than just saying you think T or P is OP.



This.Whats funny is that every zerg try to justify their qq post by making it really long . Everyday a new LONGGGGGG post about how bad zerg is.

Funny thing is you don't see any T or P QQ posts.. and this is my last response in this thread
Durp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada3117 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-25 00:17:49
January 25 2011 00:16 GMT
#25
I understand the post, and appreciate the effort put into it. Much of this I agree with, and while I play Protoss, I feel the pain of the OP watching many a zerg in GSL/etc losing to these similar problems. One thing I do disagree with, however, is the concept that one big mistake shouldn't lose you the game. Granted, with qualifies as that for zerg is a little ridiculous, but just like building the wrong unit for anyone, make a colossal misjudgement in tech will lose you the game. For any race.

I do not believe the units of the race are the problem. Part of the reason zerg units are meant to be less cost-effective is the rate at which you build them. Untouched, zerg should always hit max first. If the units were even equally cost effective, the power of the instant reinforce 200/200 army may too be much, and then "zerg is OP" would pollute the forum.

Personally, I believe this to be a map pool problem, not a race problem.
SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!!
nekuodah
Profile Joined August 2010
England2409 Posts
January 25 2011 00:18 GMT
#26
On January 25 2011 09:10 storm44 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2011 08:59 Competent wrote:
All that room to try and explain something and you still make no sense. This simply looks like a post that is about 3000 characters too long to say zerg is UP.

So what I am going to boil this down to is, if you do not want responses like this, stop beating around the bush that you want buffs rather than just saying you think T or P is OP.



This.Whats funny is that every zerg try to justify their qq post by making it really long . Everyday a new LONGGGGGG post about how bad zerg is.


Haha ive started noticing this trend too, it was a good post with quite a bit of effort obviously put into it but it literally comes down to a buff zerg thread.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-25 00:19:40
January 25 2011 00:18 GMT
#27
On January 25 2011 09:03 supersoft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2011 08:53 gogogadgetflow wrote:
Less QQ more pew pew


yoep, especially in the lower leagues (not master) it's just not the case, that zerg loses to terran if the players are equally skiled.

fun fact: 46,7% win ratio in TvZ in the GSL :-D


Fun fact terran has had 3 players in the semi finals everytime I believe (except in GSL 3 which was 2 toss 2 terran)
When I think of something else, something will go here
Toxigen
Profile Joined July 2010
United States390 Posts
January 25 2011 00:19 GMT
#28
There are two possibilities.

1. Zerg isn't imbalanced. The game is fair.

If this is the case, you should spend your time getting better at Zerg. If you get better, you'll be able to sidestep the strategies and tactics that are ruining your day. You'll lose less and figure out more stuff to improve on.

2. Zerg IS imbalanced. The other races are stronger.

If this is true now, it won't always be the case. The game is young. 2 expansion packs are on the way. Blizzard has a group of employees whose SOLE job is to balance the game.

If this is the case, however, you should spend your time getting better at Zerg. If you get better fending off these "unfair" strategies, when the game is balanced and normalized by Blizzard, you'll be that much farther ahead of the game.

TL;DR: Stop complaining; play more; get better.
Torumfroll
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
290 Posts
January 25 2011 00:22 GMT
#29
On January 25 2011 09:18 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2011 09:03 supersoft wrote:
On January 25 2011 08:53 gogogadgetflow wrote:
Less QQ more pew pew


yoep, especially in the lower leagues (not master) it's just not the case, that zerg loses to terran if the players are equally skiled.

fun fact: 46,7% win ratio in TvZ in the GSL :-D


Fun fact terran has had 3 players in the semi finals everytime I believe (except in GSL 3 which was 2 toss 2 terran)

Maybe because there are a lot more terran players than there are zerg and toss players?
Eatme
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
Switzerland3919 Posts
January 25 2011 00:27 GMT
#30
I think "better" maps that are more open and has easy to take expos would help alot. Pretty much all laddermaps are ball friendly.
I have the best fucking lawyers in the country including the man they call the Malmis.
Stiluz
Profile Joined October 2010
Norway688 Posts
January 25 2011 00:35 GMT
#31
This was recently discussed at Gosucoaching's show on justintv. Incontrol, Idra and Gretorp discussed ZvT and the general feelings were that Zerg had too little scouting opportunities, too few options early game, too prone to early harass/attacks to effectively go into midgame, and the current map pool had too small maps to allow zergs to react appropriately. That's what I can remember at least.
Mercury-
Profile Joined December 2010
Great Britain804 Posts
January 25 2011 00:35 GMT
#32
Um... you know Z units aren't supposed to be cost effective in large engagements...? That's why they're all short ranged/melee. Zerg is supposed to win by superior economy.

Not even going to adress the rest of this QQing.
ckw
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1018 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-25 00:38:28
January 25 2011 00:36 GMT
#33
On January 25 2011 09:19 Toxigen wrote:
There are two possibilities.

1. Zerg isn't imbalanced. The game is fair.

If this is the case, you should spend your time getting better at Zerg. If you get better, you'll be able to sidestep the strategies and tactics that are ruining your day. You'll lose less and figure out more stuff to improve on.

2. Zerg IS imbalanced. The other races are stronger.

If this is true now, it won't always be the case. The game is young. 2 expansion packs are on the way. Blizzard has a group of employees whose SOLE job is to balance the game.

If this is the case, however, you should spend your time getting better at Zerg. If you get better fending off these "unfair" strategies, when the game is balanced and normalized by Blizzard, you'll be that much farther ahead of the game.

TL;DR: Stop complaining; play more; get better.


You honestly think if there is a problem with balance it is acceptable to wait a year+ for an expansion to solve it...?

On January 25 2011 09:35 Mercury- wrote:
Um... you know Z units aren't supposed to be cost effective in large engagements...? That's why they're all short ranged/melee. Zerg is supposed to win by superior economy.

Not even going to adress the rest of this QQing.


I hope you don't address the rest of the "QQ" because your arguments are probably loaded with stupidity. Look dude, if Zerg needs to win with economy then why should one blue flame hellion drop completely shut it down while a Terran can lose everything and then drop the 20 Mules they forgot about and still win?
Being weak is a choice.
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
January 25 2011 00:37 GMT
#34
On January 25 2011 09:36 ckw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2011 09:19 Toxigen wrote:
There are two possibilities.

1. Zerg isn't imbalanced. The game is fair.

If this is the case, you should spend your time getting better at Zerg. If you get better, you'll be able to sidestep the strategies and tactics that are ruining your day. You'll lose less and figure out more stuff to improve on.

2. Zerg IS imbalanced. The other races are stronger.

If this is true now, it won't always be the case. The game is young. 2 expansion packs are on the way. Blizzard has a group of employees whose SOLE job is to balance the game.

If this is the case, however, you should spend your time getting better at Zerg. If you get better fending off these "unfair" strategies, when the game is balanced and normalized by Blizzard, you'll be that much farther ahead of the game.

TL;DR: Stop complaining; play more; get better.


You honestly think if there is a problem with balance it is acceptable to wait a year+ for an expansion to solve it...?

There will be a new balance patch in a couple of months. No worries.
TheDna
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany577 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-25 00:44:03
January 25 2011 00:37 GMT
#35
On January 25 2011 09:19 To tourneys more and maxigen wrote:
There are two possibilities.

1. Zerg isn't imbalanced. The game is fair.

If this is the case, you should spend your time getting better at Zerg. If you get better, you'll be able to sidestep the strategies and tactics that are ruining your day. You'll lose less and figure out more stuff to improve on.

2. Zerg IS imbalanced. The other races are stronger.

If this is true now, it won't always be the case. The game is young. 2 expansion packs are on the way. Blizzard has a group of employees whose SOLE job is to balance the game.

If this is the case, however, you should spend your time getting better at Zerg. If you get better fending off these "unfair" strategies, when the game is balanced and normalized by Blizzard, you'll be that much farther ahead of the game.

TL;DR: Stop complaining; play more; get better.


I disagree and i couldn't disagree more to be honest with you.
Imo switching races is just the better choice. Specially at pro-level just watch people like idra nestea dimaga or darkforce loose to almost no-names on some maps again and again it.

Alot of the big names could have won 10+ tourneys more and could have made a lot of money.
Just look at morrow he is at a decent level with zerg now. He won tourneys when he was at that level with terran. He wont win tourneys with zerg atm :/

Switching races is the smart choice. It will take ages for blizz to fix this. You can still switch back later..
yoplate
Profile Joined August 2010
United States332 Posts
January 25 2011 00:43 GMT
#36
I hate QQ as much as the rest of you, but it really seems like he put some effort into that, and it seems to be more than just a random BUFF ZERG, TERRAN IMBA post. I think that the zerg as a whole are mostly fine, but two things put zergs behind. Compared to the other races, zerg has a really difficult time scouting the opponent. This means that silly cheeses like banshees, void rays, DTs and so forth have a much greater success chance because it is much more difficult for the zerg player to see it coming. Also, I feel as if many of the maps are part of the problem. Maps such as steppes of war and delta quadrant have tiny distances between the mains, making timing pushes very hard to prepare for. The difficulty in securing thirds also plays an important role in many maps.
confusedcrib
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1307 Posts
January 25 2011 00:43 GMT
#37
This post is very biased, I don't even know where to start. No one gets Overseers, together with overlord speed they are the best scout in the game, not observers. Zerg has the best ability to scout the front early on, let me just run my marine up and down the front of your map, oh wait. Close spawns forces good timings and making units, it means that you actually can't overdrone without the potential to be punished, it is not an instant loss, it is just hard; like how winning cross on metalopolis v zerg as anything else is hard but not impossible.

Tl;DR Less QQ more pew pew
I'm a writer for TeamLiquid, you've probably heard of me
cozzE
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia357 Posts
January 25 2011 00:43 GMT
#38
This thread is wrong on SO many levels. You never once spoke about Z's map control via mutalisks in the mid/late game (at least in the Terran MU) and proceeded to rage about Thors and siege tanks. I don't understand what you're trying to say? To me your message in this thread is one which claims T and P are unbalanced (not true).

Sure the maps have a pretty big role to play atm, but don't forget how powerful Z gets with its Larvae mechanic past the 18 minute mark.
Sm3agol
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2055 Posts
January 25 2011 00:49 GMT
#39
On January 25 2011 09:43 cozzE wrote:
This thread is wrong on SO many levels. You never once spoke about Z's map control via mutalisks in the mid/late game (at least in the Terran MU) and proceeded to rage about Thors and siege tanks. I don't understand what you're trying to say? To me your message in this thread is one which claims T and P are unbalanced (not true).

Sure the maps have a pretty big role to play atm, but don't forget how powerful Z gets with its Larvae mechanic past the 18 minute mark.


How many Ts or Ps intentionally let the game get to that point? Noone plays for the late game vs zerg. If the game gets that far, then 95% of the time it's because T or P screwed up enough to let it get that far.
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
January 25 2011 00:50 GMT
#40
Wow guys.

This guy obviously puts alot of effort into this post, at least an hour if not more, giving a long, fleshed out explanation of a PARTICULAR problem he thought was a problem in the zerg race. He decided to devote a large portion of his time to writing a post on TL writing about why he feels there is an intrinsic problem within the zerg race as a whole, such as units not being good in all situations and the current ladder pool not fitting well with the zerg race.

How about instead of just spouting "QQ MORE NUB" you guys actually respect this guy, that these are valid opinions that people can have, and he's not being disrespectful to you in the slightest?

In response to the OP:
1.Part of what you are saying I feel is wrong. For example, you say "I can't scout" but alot of times you can. Overlord positioning is an art in itself, and you always have to be constantly scouting in order to adjust your army. Keep in mind that zerg is reactive/adaptive, not proactive.

I do however agree that I feel there is less room for error for zerg than there is for terran. For example, lets say your initial push fails. You can still survive, remacro up, because of terran fortification of seige tanks/bunker.

If zerg loses a battle, then (partly due to the maps) there just isn't enough time/innate defense to defend yourself. For example seige tanks are good even up to tier 3, but spine crawlers fail even against stim. Then you have expensive, fragile units that are a must to keep alive(mutas), that you always to be careful of. You even lose 5, that can cost you the game(as you need them to take out tanks/other stuff.)

As to the maps, enough has been said on that. I think almost everyone is in agreement the maps need to be redone.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 8 9 10 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 9h 15m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft297
SteadfastSC 152
SpeCial 109
RuFF_SC2 86
CosmosSc2 54
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 723
Shuttle 450
Aegong 74
Vindicta 6
Dota 2
monkeys_forever915
NeuroSwarm163
League of Legends
JimRising 879
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K445
Fnx 180
PGG 47
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King37
Other Games
summit1g6838
shahzam982
C9.Mang0235
Trikslyr53
ViBE42
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta32
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 17
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift5166
Other Games
• Scarra1239
• imaqtpie1189
• Shiphtur220
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
9h 15m
Zoun vs Classic
Map Test Tournament
10h 15m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 2h
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
1d 7h
RSL Revival
1d 9h
Reynor vs Cure
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Online Event
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
LiuLi Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.