EPTthats fun
tvp, still a sad joke. - Page 2
| Forum Index > Closed |
|
nyokenusa
56 Posts
thats fun | ||
|
TryThis
Canada1522 Posts
| ||
|
-orb-
United States5770 Posts
go watch gretorp l2p imoimo | ||
|
Chimpalimp
United States1135 Posts
@OP, try mech bro, there is a reason the siege tank is the best thing since.... I don't think anything has ever been better than the siege tank. But really try to think outside the box, terrans have been turtling in BW for years, its for a reason, it works! | ||
|
Cedstick
Canada3336 Posts
| ||
|
LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
mech gets destroyed by air. void rays/carriers even immortal/zealot just RAPES tanks even if terran has better upgrades. gone are the days you could pump out a round of Goliaths. | ||
|
hellokitty[hk]
United States1309 Posts
| ||
Heyoka
Katowice25012 Posts
I mean it's bad enough that we had to deal with years of bullshit in TvP in broodwar. Yeah, tons of bullshit. Thats why 3 (or 4) bonjwas were terran and a touch under 50% of starleagues have been won by terrans. GSL is full of bullshit too, man. Look at Code S or Code A! Protosses won nearly 30% of those PvTs! | ||
|
Nokarot
United States1410 Posts
| ||
|
Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
On January 24 2011 14:06 heyoka wrote: You are one whiny motherfucker. Yeah, tons of bullshit. Thats why 3 (or 4) bonjwas were terran and a touch under 50% of starleagues have been won by terrans. You have medivacs and marauders. Pretty much Blizzard's gift to all Terrans. Protoss has been nerfed in one way or another minus maybe 2 patches. Every other patch has had protoss nerfed. If you play like Select did @ MLG dallas [ yeah that long ago ] you will rip most competent Protosses. You play at a high level in bw and sc2, I recognize that, but it is simply ridiculous the harass potential that Terrans have. One medivac full of any combination of marine/marauder REQUIRES a serious commitment by the protoss. You can drop in two locations, keep your main army in front of your nat and fend off any push the protoss can do before they hit 3 [ critical ] collosus or zealot speed. Or you can attack his nat, drop anywhere else. Aggression is hugely rewarded for terrans right now, even if maps are small simply because medivac drops are so strong vs gateway units. | ||
|
AcrossFiveJulys
United States3612 Posts
Tanks are just not good in TvP except for 1 base allins, no matter how many players you see making them. They were fine before the damage vs light nerf, but now zealot/immortal just absolutely steam rolls any reasonable number of tanks, AND it's a mobile force. Not to mention air. | ||
|
-orb-
United States5770 Posts
On January 24 2011 14:04 LuckyFool wrote: medviacs just get raped by feedback, or stalkers/zealots get warped in wherever you drop. Good tosses keep obs around or see the drop coming and have units there. If you're lucky you kill a pylon and then lose everything or have to run out. if you over commit to a big drop they just roll ur front. mech gets destroyed by air. void rays/carriers even immortal/zealot just RAPES tanks even if terran has better upgrades. gone are the days you could pump out a round of Goliaths. If your medivacs are getting raped by feedback you're a much less imaginative player than I thought  Stim your units first? Thus use up the medivac energy? Or you could even emp them if you really wanted to haha If you warp in units where the drop is coming you're still going to lose unless you have a retarded number of warpgates. Terran units' strength is their efficiency in small numbers in comparison to protoss units which generally require a broader composition of units and a larger number to be effective. Since infantry are more effective in small numbers than protoss gateway units are, you can just drop from medivacs at multiple bases at once and protoss will be pretty much helpless to stop it. You may not have goliaths, but you still have vikings (as well as BCs if you're super late game). Besides, if you're positioned well with infantry to protect, immortals shouldn't be able to walk up and shoot your tanks. They should be well out of range with infantry stopping the immortals from getting too close. | ||
Antoine
United States7481 Posts
On January 24 2011 14:06 heyoka wrote: You are one whiny motherfucker. Yeah, tons of bullshit. Thats why 3 (or 4) bonjwas were terran and a touch under 50% of starleagues have been won by terrans. GSL is full of bullshit too, man. Look at Code S or Code A! Protosses won nearly 30% of those PvTs! On the other hand, the Zotac Team Invitational is protoss 29:28 terran (pending tonight's results) | ||
|
Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
Since infantry are more effective in small numbers than protoss gateway units are, you can just drop from medivacs at multiple bases at once and protoss will be pretty much helpless to stop it. Until chargelots and warp-in HTs with 75 energy. Besides, if you're positioned well with infantry to protect, immortals shouldn't be able to walk up and shoot your tanks. They should be well out of range with infantry stopping the immortals from getting too close. If you put your infantry so far in front, they get stormed. If you put them with tanks, immortals walk up and then infantry gets stormed anyway :\ Oh and chargelots make your tanks rape your own infantry anyway. Tanks are awful. | ||
|
red_hq
Canada450 Posts
| ||
|
-orb-
United States5770 Posts
On January 24 2011 14:25 Sadistx wrote: Until chargelots and warp-in HTs with 75 energy. nope I've played tons of PvTs where I warp in more food+money worth than the terran has in pure zealot/khaydarin HTs to defend against drops and the marauders are always the victors. Especially when they do this at 3 places at once and even using all your warpgates at just one drop isn't enough to defend against it. If you put your infantry so far in front, they get stormed. If you put them with tanks, immortals walk up and then infantry gets stormed anyway :\ Oh and chargelots make your tanks rape your own infantry anyway. Tanks are awful. I guess you've never heard of kiting then, nor emp. I also don't get why more terrans don't use more minerals on hellions instead of pumping them all into marines. A healthy balance is ideal (not advocating pure hellion), and having hellions in front would not only be better against storming tosses, it'd help deal with the zealots more effectively as well as being easier to kite with back to your tanks. | ||
|
Trap
United States395 Posts
| ||
|
SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
This is proof!!! | ||
|
Speake
United States494 Posts
| ||
Ver
United States2186 Posts
A lot of people mention the horrendous gsl pvt winrate. This is almost solely due to T 1 base builds, which to a certain degree is a dice roll but it's still one that favors Terran. Terran on 2 and 3 bases still has a fighting chance due to harassment, which is very powerful and takes a lot of skill for both sides. But once you start adding up the bases and getting later in the tech tree, T winrate drops to 0. Literally. Protoss acquires too much anti-harassment potential, namely warpin temps w/ amulet, blink stalkers phoenix, or air units in general, and simply being able to warpin a bunch of stuff at once (thankfully most are too stupid to use phoenix or get blink so harass still works for longer than it should). Terran must win via harass because they have zero chance in actual battles. The only way they can stop protoss from just a moving into them with a big ball of stuff is planetarys, not just at expansions, but at strategic locations that can't be avoided. As sc2 1 base games are unimaginably boring and I refuse to play them, I have searched long and hard and found 4 games where T wins in lategame fights vP, out of many games searching and many games played. Ogstop vs some ladder kor on metal. 70 minute game top transitions into mass tanks after splitting the map. Protoss never gets carriers or any air unit and just a moves ground armies into tank lines over and over (still almost wins lol). Proof a monkey can play protoss. There probably were a few games where T snipes colossus with vikings pre-battle while P is afk, but you can't be basing your strategic plans on praying the Protoss is an idiot and just doesn't protect his colossus. That's simply victory in a worst case scenario Painuser vs Nony/Nazgul (lt/kulas 3 games total I think) from 3rd mlg. At last, I had found a savior. A man who could take it to protoss lategame and shove their broken units in their faces. Granted in every game the protoss made horrendous horrendous blunders while Painuser kinda sat and waited for them to screw up but still, it was a terran lategame victory. Then a friend played painuser 3 times on ladder and raped him in lategame every time with varying combinations. Painuser lost multiple maxed armies, never winning a battle or even coming close. Once carriers were on the field, continuing to play was just a formality. Painuser even emp'ed his entire army once, pre-carrier too, but it didn't matter lol. Hope shattered. My own experience mirrors this as well. All tvp's that are not won defending allins are won by harass. 0 lategame victories or games where I try to with minimal harass and just by fighting big battles, including many games where I lose half a dozen 200/200 fights by ridiculous margins. Every conceivable unit combination has been tried: doesn't matter if P has any idea whats coming or, survives long enough to make carriers. Literally, 0/20ish. Terran does a great job at delaying the inevitable via their strong buildings that prevent P from always exploiting T losing a battle, but it doesn't really matter whether you have the chance to lose 1 200/200 battle or 5. In one particularly memorable game, we split metal and fought repeated maxed fights. In the end, I was mined out completely, while he had 13k/4k total! Now that is cost efficient. Jinro's games vs MC and in the machima clanwars look fancy but mech is heavily positionally dependent, and again, relies the Protoss player being a monkey. If Protoss treats v Mech like v Bio and stays cautious and expands slowly, yes they have trouble. But if they just expand over and over and protect from hellion harassment (much easier to block than bio cause it can only kill zeals and workers), mech can't do a thing to prevent it and will eventually wither and die to anything from air units, infinite supply of ground armies, or P harass. Jinro/Axslav is a good example of this. Mech is something that will work okay for awhile if Protoss reacts badly, but it is doomed in the long run. TvP still has a semblance of balance, for who knows what side, because of Terran early game dumb builds. But it is the stupidest balance possible: T has a variety of solid allins early game that if the Protoss rolls the dice wrong. Midgame is interesting with harass potential but that ends very quickly. T has to balance their harass on a razors edge to keep the P pinned with threats while not taking many casualties, as otherwise they can just die to P 1a'ing into their nat. Also if Terran can gain a nice economic lead, they can trade armies repeatedly and just attrition the Protoss to death (until templars get on the field or P gets too many bases to matter, namely more than 3). Lategame is protoss autowin. It may or may not be "imbalanced" but it is unarguably stupid and incredibly poorly designed. Both T early game and P lategame need to be completely redesigned yet I highly doubt Blizzard will focus on anything more than superficial changes. | ||
| ||
