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On January 09 2011 10:49 TributeBoxer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 10:42 NicolBolas wrote:On January 09 2011 10:02 Warlike Prince wrote:
"At least five other people, including members of her staff, were hurt."
If more citizens would walk around armed no nut job would ever get off more than a couple shots off. Protect your selves people, no one is gunna do it for you If you're living in a society where, in order to be reasonably safe, you must be armed and ready to kill at a moments notice, you are not living in a civilized society! If you are living in a society where the only solution to curb violent maniacs is to yourself become a violent maniac, you are not living in a civilized society! Leave immediately for places where raving douchebags don't get to run around armed. This is only one step up from the "State of Nature" or general anarchy. Oh, and good job blaming the victims. Stay classy.  Cant believe you are calling people who act out in self defense violent maniacs. You are unhinged and need help
Gun violence is not decreased by the addition of more guns. The US has one of the highest per capita rate of gun crimes in any first world nation. Turns out if you reduce the number of guns in circulation, gun crime goes down.
Self defense is only considered a valid legal argument so long as no other possibilities existed, including the ability the flee.
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@the posters that are knee jerk right-wing did it people
This is just another example of a leftist committing violence in the last few years. More examples below.
‘Oddball’ portrait of Amy Bishop emerges
Suspect’s family, pals offer clues
By Laurel J. Sweet, Jessica Van Sack, Jessica Fargen and Ira Kantor | Monday, February 15, 2010
Police in Huntsville, Ala., charged Bishop, 44, with capital murder after she allegedly opened fire on six colleagues at a faculty meeting Friday, killing three. Afterward, she calmly called her husband and asked him to pick her up as if nothing had happened, said police Chief Henry Reyes.
A family source said Bishop, a mother of four children – the youngest a third-grade boy – was a far-left political extremist who was “obsessed” with President Obama to the point of being off-putting.
Stunner. Al-Qaeda Killer Who Shot His Way Out of Hospital Is Former Dem Operative
Thursday, March 11, 2010, 12:02 PM
Jim Hoft
Al-Qaeda terrorist, Sharif Mobley, was arrested in Yemen earlier this year. The New Jersey man shot two men at a hospital in Yemen over the weekend after being arrested in the company of several al-Qaeda members. Sharif Mobley, 26, was quietly detained earlier this year by Yemeni authorities.
Jammie Wearing Fool has more on the “good kid” who, as luck would have it, ended up in a terrorist cell in Yemen, including this little nugget:
Campaign finance records show Mobley received $75 as an election day worker for Gov. Jon Corzine’s campaign in 2005.
ObamaCare Protester Punched in the Face During Union Sponsored Town Hall in NC….
The assault took place at the end of an opening speech Congressman Price at North Carolina Central University in Durham. Eyewitnesses of the assault say claim the assailant was an African-American woman who openly supported Obama.
New video from St. Louis town hall beating
Kenneth Gladney, a 38-year-old conservative activist from St. Louis, said he was attacked by some of those arrested as he handed out yellow flags with “Don’t tread on me” printed on them. He spoke to the Post-Dispatch from the emergency room of the St. John’s Mercy Medical Center, where he said he was waiting to be treated for injuries to his knee, back, elbow, shoulder and face that he suffered in the attack. Gladney, who is black, said one of his attackers, also a black man, used a racial slur against him before the attack started.
Handicapped Woman Cries After Assault By Union Thugs at Town Hall (Video) … Update: Woman Speaks Out on Being Stomped On
A handicapped woman with a walker cries as she tells how union members pushed her out her seat at a town hall:
Smashing women in the face–
St. Louis tea party protester is smashed in the face by SEIU member.
Healthcare-reform opponent says bit-off finger could not be re-attached
A healthcare-reform opponent whose finger was partially bitten off Wednesday during a Thousand Oaks rally said today that doctors could not re-attach the severed section.
Lila Rose assaulted by Planned Parenthood escort
At approximately 11:50am on Thursday, December 17th, 2009, Live Action President Lila Rose was struck by a male uniformed Planned Parenthood escort. The attack occurred on a public sidewalk outside a Planned Parenthood affiliate located at 1691 The Alameda in San Jose, California.
Pro-life demonstrator murdered at Michigan high school; Update: Motive confirmed
“The indication is that he had ill will … a grudge against these three individuals,” said Shiawassee County Prosecutor Randy Colbry. “The defendant was offended by the manner of Mr. Pouillon’s message.”
Hostage situation at Discovery Channel; alleged gunman ID’ed as “Save the Planet” enviro-nut James Jay Lee; Update: Lee shot (dead?), in custody, all hostages safe
By Michelle Malkin • September 1, 2010 02:28 PM
http://michellemalkin.com/2010/09/01/hostage-situation-at-discovery-channel/
The gunman was reportedly motivated by Al Gore’s Inconvenient Truth eco-propaganda.
The Austin plane crasher, Joseph Andrew Stack:
To reiterate, here are Stack’s grievances, in order of appearance in his suicide note: failure of health care reform, banker bonuses, the Catholic church, base closings in Southern California, his own accountant, George W. Bush, tax treatment of freelance engineers, and capitalism.
http://reason.com/blog/2010/02/21/folk-hero-push-for-andrew-jose
All this violence from the left.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Equating left and right violence is laughable. You haven't heard of the KKK by any chance?
E: There is no such thing as a leftist movement in the US.
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On January 09 2011 10:49 TributeBoxer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 10:42 NicolBolas wrote:On January 09 2011 10:02 Warlike Prince wrote:
"At least five other people, including members of her staff, were hurt."
If more citizens would walk around armed no nut job would ever get off more than a couple shots off. Protect your selves people, no one is gunna do it for you If you're living in a society where, in order to be reasonably safe, you must be armed and ready to kill at a moments notice, you are not living in a civilized society! If you are living in a society where the only solution to curb violent maniacs is to yourself become a violent maniac, you are not living in a civilized society! Leave immediately for places where raving douchebags don't get to run around armed. This is only one step up from the "State of Nature" or general anarchy. Oh, and good job blaming the victims. Stay classy. Cant believe you are calling people who act out in self defense violent maniacs. You are unhinged and need help
No, you just did not understand his post. Someone claimed, less people get killed by crazy people bearing arms when everyone else is armed and immediately shoots them. Considering that everyone bearing arms and being alert and ready to immediately shoot someone if need be can be considered crazy, his argument is quite consistent. Also, citizens bearing arms and killing crazy shoorts is self-justice and in states under the rule of law that is not permitted.
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
On January 09 2011 10:54 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 10:31 CarlyZerg wrote:
If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'. But that's not true. Look at the volume and virulence of the rhetoric. Show me a left-wing leader who has actually suggested a "2nd amendment solution" to problems; this is nothing nothing less than a threat of violence. Show me a left-wing TV personality who has actively called for popular insurrection against the legally-elected government. Show me left-wing protests that prominently display armed protesters, where the people are proud to show their guns and basically daring someone to start something. I have never seen a left-wing protester carrying an assault rifle to a Bush rally when Bush was president. I have seen a right-wing protester doing the same during the Obama presidency. I would be far more willing to believe that right-wingers thing left-wingers are worse than left-wingers perceive right-wingers. And I am far more willing to believe that right-wing crazies are a greater threat to peace and civil discourse than left-wing crazies. That doesn't mean I think that all of the right are crazies, one step away from going apeshit. But it is very, very apparent that there are a lot more of their crazies who are out in force these days. And they're armed.
Remember the guy that flew a plane into an IRS office, his 'suicide note' ending with words taken from the Communist manifesto?
Equating left and right violence is laughable. You haven't heard of the KKK by any chance?
I know, wasn't Robert Byrd, Grand Wizard (or Grand Dragon, or whatever silly title he had) of the KKK, a Democrat? Bull Connor--klansman and democrat.
In the KKK's formative day they shot and killed black Republicans, so I guess it isn't that surprising.
I'm all for people trying to make Republicans look like racist crazies. I find this quite amusing. But you're hardly even providing a challenge here.
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On January 09 2011 11:01 419 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 10:54 NicolBolas wrote:On January 09 2011 10:31 CarlyZerg wrote:
If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'. But that's not true. Look at the volume and virulence of the rhetoric. Show me a left-wing leader who has actually suggested a "2nd amendment solution" to problems; this is nothing nothing less than a threat of violence. Show me a left-wing TV personality who has actively called for popular insurrection against the legally-elected government. Show me left-wing protests that prominently display armed protesters, where the people are proud to show their guns and basically daring someone to start something. I have never seen a left-wing protester carrying an assault rifle to a Bush rally when Bush was president. I have seen a right-wing protester doing the same during the Obama presidency. I would be far more willing to believe that right-wingers thing left-wingers are worse than left-wingers perceive right-wingers. And I am far more willing to believe that right-wing crazies are a greater threat to peace and civil discourse than left-wing crazies. That doesn't mean I think that all of the right are crazies, one step away from going apeshit. But it is very, very apparent that there are a lot more of their crazies who are out in force these days. And they're armed. Remember the guy that flew a plane into an IRS office, his 'suicide note' ending with words taken from the Communist manifesto?
after pages and pages of an anti-tax rant
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On January 09 2011 11:03 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 11:01 419 wrote:On January 09 2011 10:54 NicolBolas wrote:On January 09 2011 10:31 CarlyZerg wrote:
If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'. But that's not true. Look at the volume and virulence of the rhetoric. Show me a left-wing leader who has actually suggested a "2nd amendment solution" to problems; this is nothing nothing less than a threat of violence. Show me a left-wing TV personality who has actively called for popular insurrection against the legally-elected government. Show me left-wing protests that prominently display armed protesters, where the people are proud to show their guns and basically daring someone to start something. I have never seen a left-wing protester carrying an assault rifle to a Bush rally when Bush was president. I have seen a right-wing protester doing the same during the Obama presidency. I would be far more willing to believe that right-wingers thing left-wingers are worse than left-wingers perceive right-wingers. And I am far more willing to believe that right-wing crazies are a greater threat to peace and civil discourse than left-wing crazies. That doesn't mean I think that all of the right are crazies, one step away from going apeshit. But it is very, very apparent that there are a lot more of their crazies who are out in force these days. And they're armed. Remember the guy that flew a plane into an IRS office, his 'suicide note' ending with words taken from the Communist manifesto? after pages and pages of an anti-tax rant
Context is only important so long as it supports my side of the argument!
- Average TL poster
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
On January 09 2011 11:03 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 11:01 419 wrote:On January 09 2011 10:54 NicolBolas wrote:On January 09 2011 10:31 CarlyZerg wrote:
If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'. But that's not true. Look at the volume and virulence of the rhetoric. Show me a left-wing leader who has actually suggested a "2nd amendment solution" to problems; this is nothing nothing less than a threat of violence. Show me a left-wing TV personality who has actively called for popular insurrection against the legally-elected government. Show me left-wing protests that prominently display armed protesters, where the people are proud to show their guns and basically daring someone to start something. I have never seen a left-wing protester carrying an assault rifle to a Bush rally when Bush was president. I have seen a right-wing protester doing the same during the Obama presidency. I would be far more willing to believe that right-wingers thing left-wingers are worse than left-wingers perceive right-wingers. And I am far more willing to believe that right-wing crazies are a greater threat to peace and civil discourse than left-wing crazies. That doesn't mean I think that all of the right are crazies, one step away from going apeshit. But it is very, very apparent that there are a lot more of their crazies who are out in force these days. And they're armed. Remember the guy that flew a plane into an IRS office, his 'suicide note' ending with words taken from the Communist manifesto? after pages and pages of an anti-tax rant
"one law for a rich, one law for the poor"
You're right, I heard John Edwards Sarah Palin talking about that some time ago.
Okay, more talk from Mr. Stack the arch-conservative:
The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.
Only a card-carrying Republican would say that.
E: There is no such thing as a leftist movement in the US.
o.O
This is just a really bizarre statement.
Context is only important so long as it supports my side of the argument!
I like your solution: don't support your arguments at all.
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On January 09 2011 10:59 Electric.Jesus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 10:49 TributeBoxer wrote:On January 09 2011 10:42 NicolBolas wrote:On January 09 2011 10:02 Warlike Prince wrote:
"At least five other people, including members of her staff, were hurt."
If more citizens would walk around armed no nut job would ever get off more than a couple shots off. Protect your selves people, no one is gunna do it for you If you're living in a society where, in order to be reasonably safe, you must be armed and ready to kill at a moments notice, you are not living in a civilized society! If you are living in a society where the only solution to curb violent maniacs is to yourself become a violent maniac, you are not living in a civilized society! Leave immediately for places where raving douchebags don't get to run around armed. This is only one step up from the "State of Nature" or general anarchy. Oh, and good job blaming the victims. Stay classy. Cant believe you are calling people who act out in self defense violent maniacs. You are unhinged and need help No, you just did not understand his post. Someone claimed, less people get killed by crazy people bearing arms when everyone else is armed and immediately shoots them. Considering that everyone bearing arms and being alert and ready to immediately shoot someone if need be can be considered crazy, his argument is quite consistent. Also, citizens bearing arms and killing crazy shoorts is self-justice and in states under the rule of law that is not permitted.
The problem is I should have the right not to bear arms and be reasonably safe.
I don't like the idea that all anyone with a gun has to do is pull a trigger in order to hurt me.
I also don't like the idea that in order to protect myself I should have to buy an expensive weapon.
I also don't like the idea that I can't do anything to protect myself against someone with a gun if I don't also have one, running just gets me shot in the back.
Now you tell me how the right to bear arms should supersede my right to personal safety.
More on Topic: I think it is kinda sad that anyone in a political position is in danger.
I really do wonder what motivation anyone can have that is powerful enough to kill someone else that is not threatening their life.
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On January 09 2011 10:42 de7dv wrote:To end all (off-topic) debates whether Hitler was Rightwing or Leftwing in this thread: + Show Spoiler +(he was neither, just very authoritarian) This image is from politicalcompass.org, which to me seems like a credible site.
Wheres mao? didnt he kill like 60 million of his own people?
why would he be bad.
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On January 09 2011 11:07 419 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 11:03 Mindcrime wrote:On January 09 2011 11:01 419 wrote:On January 09 2011 10:54 NicolBolas wrote:On January 09 2011 10:31 CarlyZerg wrote:
If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'. But that's not true. Look at the volume and virulence of the rhetoric. Show me a left-wing leader who has actually suggested a "2nd amendment solution" to problems; this is nothing nothing less than a threat of violence. Show me a left-wing TV personality who has actively called for popular insurrection against the legally-elected government. Show me left-wing protests that prominently display armed protesters, where the people are proud to show their guns and basically daring someone to start something. I have never seen a left-wing protester carrying an assault rifle to a Bush rally when Bush was president. I have seen a right-wing protester doing the same during the Obama presidency. I would be far more willing to believe that right-wingers thing left-wingers are worse than left-wingers perceive right-wingers. And I am far more willing to believe that right-wing crazies are a greater threat to peace and civil discourse than left-wing crazies. That doesn't mean I think that all of the right are crazies, one step away from going apeshit. But it is very, very apparent that there are a lot more of their crazies who are out in force these days. And they're armed. Remember the guy that flew a plane into an IRS office, his 'suicide note' ending with words taken from the Communist manifesto? after pages and pages of an anti-tax rant "one law for a rich, one law for the poor" You're right, I heard John Edwards Sarah Palin talking about that some time ago. Okay, more talk from Mr. Stack the arch-conservative: Show nested quote +The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws. Only a card-carrying Republican would say that. o.O I like your solution: don't support your arguments at all.
Do you mean to tell me the democrats are a leftist organization?
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I wasn't going to post in this thread after seeing all of the ridiculousness, but I couldn't contain it anymore after reading Tributeboxer's little copy+pasted list. That might be the greatest troll bate ever written, or just plain stupidity. I honestly can't tell anymore.
This thread shouldn't be about left vs right.... but left + right vs crazies. Crazy people suck.
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On January 09 2011 11:20 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
I wasn't going to post in this thread after seeing all of the ridiculousness, but I couldn't contain it anymore after reading Tributeboxer's little copy+pasted list. That might be the greatest troll bate ever written, or just plain stupidity. I honestly can't tell anymore.
This thread shouldn't be about left vs right.... but left + right vs crazies. Crazy people suck.
Politics make people dumb. We all knew that =/
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Watching MSNBC and they have Keith anchoring the coverage...he looks like he is about to break down. Remember, he gave to her campaign and risked his job doing so.
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
On January 09 2011 11:19 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 11:07 419 wrote:On January 09 2011 11:03 Mindcrime wrote:On January 09 2011 11:01 419 wrote:On January 09 2011 10:54 NicolBolas wrote:On January 09 2011 10:31 CarlyZerg wrote:
If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'. But that's not true. Look at the volume and virulence of the rhetoric. Show me a left-wing leader who has actually suggested a "2nd amendment solution" to problems; this is nothing nothing less than a threat of violence. Show me a left-wing TV personality who has actively called for popular insurrection against the legally-elected government. Show me left-wing protests that prominently display armed protesters, where the people are proud to show their guns and basically daring someone to start something. I have never seen a left-wing protester carrying an assault rifle to a Bush rally when Bush was president. I have seen a right-wing protester doing the same during the Obama presidency. I would be far more willing to believe that right-wingers thing left-wingers are worse than left-wingers perceive right-wingers. And I am far more willing to believe that right-wing crazies are a greater threat to peace and civil discourse than left-wing crazies. That doesn't mean I think that all of the right are crazies, one step away from going apeshit. But it is very, very apparent that there are a lot more of their crazies who are out in force these days. And they're armed. Remember the guy that flew a plane into an IRS office, his 'suicide note' ending with words taken from the Communist manifesto? after pages and pages of an anti-tax rant "one law for a rich, one law for the poor" You're right, I heard John Edwards Sarah Palin talking about that some time ago. Okay, more talk from Mr. Stack the arch-conservative: The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws. Only a card-carrying Republican would say that. E: There is no such thing as a leftist movement in the US. o.O Context is only important so long as it supports my side of the argument! I like your solution: don't support your arguments at all. Do you mean to tell me the democrats are a leftist organization?
I don't know, does "an organization full of people advancing 'leftist' (will be happy to define this if asked) views" qualify under your stringent criteria?
An on-topic note: I'm not even trying to claim that the shooter was left-wing, and in fact I'm more inclined to believe that he's apolitically deluded. It just irks me to see you claim "no way it could have been us, only those right-wing Republican/tea partiers do that political violence stuff".
Ultimately the arguments in this thread are just as illogical as claiming that Pol Pot, Stalin, John Hinckley, Sirhan Sirhan, Hitler, or Timothy McVeigh were just exuberant adherents of leftist/rightist/ilovejodiefoster ideology and happen to represent all of them.
I would also be fine with taking this "political violence correlated with ideology" shitfest to PMs if that's fine with you.
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United States22883 Posts
On January 09 2011 11:01 419 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 10:54 NicolBolas wrote:On January 09 2011 10:31 CarlyZerg wrote:
If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'. But that's not true. Look at the volume and virulence of the rhetoric. Show me a left-wing leader who has actually suggested a "2nd amendment solution" to problems; this is nothing nothing less than a threat of violence. Show me a left-wing TV personality who has actively called for popular insurrection against the legally-elected government. Show me left-wing protests that prominently display armed protesters, where the people are proud to show their guns and basically daring someone to start something. I have never seen a left-wing protester carrying an assault rifle to a Bush rally when Bush was president. I have seen a right-wing protester doing the same during the Obama presidency. I would be far more willing to believe that right-wingers thing left-wingers are worse than left-wingers perceive right-wingers. And I am far more willing to believe that right-wing crazies are a greater threat to peace and civil discourse than left-wing crazies. That doesn't mean I think that all of the right are crazies, one step away from going apeshit. But it is very, very apparent that there are a lot more of their crazies who are out in force these days. And they're armed. Remember the guy that flew a plane into an IRS office, his 'suicide note' ending with words taken from the Communist manifesto? Show nested quote +Equating left and right violence is laughable. You haven't heard of the KKK by any chance? I know, wasn't Robert Byrd, Grand Wizard (or Grand Dragon, or whatever silly title he had) of the KKK, a Democrat? Bull Connor--klansman and democrat. In the KKK's formative day they shot and killed black Republicans, so I guess it isn't that surprising. I'm all for people trying to make Republicans look like racist crazies. I find this quite amusing. But you're hardly even providing a challenge here.
Are you seriously using the D and R labels from before the post-WWII switch? Byrd was an asshole but he simply stayed with the party. The Democratic party he joined was opposite the one it became after WWII.
On January 09 2011 11:25 419 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 11:19 Offhand wrote:On January 09 2011 11:07 419 wrote:On January 09 2011 11:03 Mindcrime wrote:On January 09 2011 11:01 419 wrote:On January 09 2011 10:54 NicolBolas wrote:On January 09 2011 10:31 CarlyZerg wrote:
If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'. But that's not true. Look at the volume and virulence of the rhetoric. Show me a left-wing leader who has actually suggested a "2nd amendment solution" to problems; this is nothing nothing less than a threat of violence. Show me a left-wing TV personality who has actively called for popular insurrection against the legally-elected government. Show me left-wing protests that prominently display armed protesters, where the people are proud to show their guns and basically daring someone to start something. I have never seen a left-wing protester carrying an assault rifle to a Bush rally when Bush was president. I have seen a right-wing protester doing the same during the Obama presidency. I would be far more willing to believe that right-wingers thing left-wingers are worse than left-wingers perceive right-wingers. And I am far more willing to believe that right-wing crazies are a greater threat to peace and civil discourse than left-wing crazies. That doesn't mean I think that all of the right are crazies, one step away from going apeshit. But it is very, very apparent that there are a lot more of their crazies who are out in force these days. And they're armed. Remember the guy that flew a plane into an IRS office, his 'suicide note' ending with words taken from the Communist manifesto? after pages and pages of an anti-tax rant "one law for a rich, one law for the poor" You're right, I heard John Edwards Sarah Palin talking about that some time ago. Okay, more talk from Mr. Stack the arch-conservative: The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws. Only a card-carrying Republican would say that. E: There is no such thing as a leftist movement in the US. o.O Context is only important so long as it supports my side of the argument! I like your solution: don't support your arguments at all. Do you mean to tell me the democrats are a leftist organization? I don't know, does "an organization full of people advancing 'leftist' (will be happy to define this if asked) views" qualify under your stringent criteria? An on-topic note: I'm not even trying to claim that the shooter was left-wing, and in fact I'm more inclined to believe that he's apolitically deluded. It just irks me to see you claim "no way it could have been us, only those right-wing Republican/tea partiers do that political violence stuff". Ultimately the arguments in this thread are just as illogical as claiming that Pol Pot, Stalin, John Hinckley, Sirhan Sirhan, Hitler, or Timothy McVeigh were just exuberant adherents of leftist/rightist/ilovejodiefoster ideology and happen to represent all of them. I would also be fine with taking this "political violence correlated with ideology" shitfest to PMs if that's fine with you.
This is a convenient way for you to avoid the fact that Tea Party leaders have made absurdly vitriolic remarks over the past two years, bordering on calling for violent arms against the federal government.
All of those people DID fall within the political spectrum. Why is it that when it's Americans committing disgusting acts, they're just "bad apples" and they're not influenced by the greater culture surrounding their movement, but when it's Muslims doing the same, the entire fucking religion/movement has to go. Here's a hint: in all of history, isolated bad apples don't exist.
I've never mentioned Republicans this entire thread, before talking about the 20th century party switch and I don't think they're particularly relevant to the Tea Party movement, nor do I think the Tea Party movement has much to do with conservatism besides them recruiting from a similar base and trying to steal power from one another. The issue is people who actually believe we should take up arms against the government and are egged on by irresponsible assholes like Beck or Sharon Angle. I don't know the leftwing anarchist assholes that promote the same shit, because they don't have primetime shows on major cable stations, but I'm sure they exist.
One side is openly catering to these people to win elections, the other isn't.
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Sanya12364 Posts
The BlueDog Democrats aren't popular with the Rep. base or the Dem. base. They hold a more centrist position. This could have been motivated from left or right. Based on the youtube page and his favorite books list, it looks more like violence of the leftist type.
While a tragedy, I can't help but feel like this is only the beginning of we will see in violence against politicians. A lot of people aren't happy with the way things are going, and Washington is out of ideas on how to make it appear painless for people around the country and kick the can down the road.
Loughner's weird reading list: youtube
Books:
I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
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On January 09 2011 11:25 419 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 11:19 Offhand wrote:On January 09 2011 11:07 419 wrote:On January 09 2011 11:03 Mindcrime wrote:On January 09 2011 11:01 419 wrote:On January 09 2011 10:54 NicolBolas wrote:On January 09 2011 10:31 CarlyZerg wrote:
If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'. But that's not true. Look at the volume and virulence of the rhetoric. Show me a left-wing leader who has actually suggested a "2nd amendment solution" to problems; this is nothing nothing less than a threat of violence. Show me a left-wing TV personality who has actively called for popular insurrection against the legally-elected government. Show me left-wing protests that prominently display armed protesters, where the people are proud to show their guns and basically daring someone to start something. I have never seen a left-wing protester carrying an assault rifle to a Bush rally when Bush was president. I have seen a right-wing protester doing the same during the Obama presidency. I would be far more willing to believe that right-wingers thing left-wingers are worse than left-wingers perceive right-wingers. And I am far more willing to believe that right-wing crazies are a greater threat to peace and civil discourse than left-wing crazies. That doesn't mean I think that all of the right are crazies, one step away from going apeshit. But it is very, very apparent that there are a lot more of their crazies who are out in force these days. And they're armed. Remember the guy that flew a plane into an IRS office, his 'suicide note' ending with words taken from the Communist manifesto? after pages and pages of an anti-tax rant "one law for a rich, one law for the poor" You're right, I heard John Edwards Sarah Palin talking about that some time ago. Okay, more talk from Mr. Stack the arch-conservative: The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws. Only a card-carrying Republican would say that. E: There is no such thing as a leftist movement in the US. o.O Context is only important so long as it supports my side of the argument! I like your solution: don't support your arguments at all. Do you mean to tell me the democrats are a leftist organization? I don't know, does "an organization full of people advancing 'leftist' (will be happy to define this if asked) views" qualify under your stringent criteria? An on-topic note: I'm not even trying to claim that the shooter was left-wing, and in fact I'm more inclined to believe that he's apolitically deluded. It just irks me to see you claim "no way it could have been us, only those right-wing Republican/tea partiers do that political violence stuff". Ultimately the arguments in this thread are just as illogical as claiming that Pol Pot, Stalin, John Hinckley, Sirhan Sirhan, Hitler, or Timothy McVeigh were just exuberant adherents of leftist/rightist/ilovejodiefoster ideology and happen to represent all of them. I would also be fine with taking this "political violence correlated with ideology" shitfest to PMs if that's fine with you.
Yes, an organization that supports leftist ideals would be. But the democrats are corporate apologists, not leftists. There's some lip service paid to social issues such as gay rights but nothing much ever gets done in those regards. Much the same way the Republicans need to placate the protestants, bigots, and gun nuts in order to garner those votes.
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On January 09 2011 11:09 Traveler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 10:59 Electric.Jesus wrote:On January 09 2011 10:49 TributeBoxer wrote:On January 09 2011 10:42 NicolBolas wrote:On January 09 2011 10:02 Warlike Prince wrote:
"At least five other people, including members of her staff, were hurt."
If more citizens would walk around armed no nut job would ever get off more than a couple shots off. Protect your selves people, no one is gunna do it for you If you're living in a society where, in order to be reasonably safe, you must be armed and ready to kill at a moments notice, you are not living in a civilized society! If you are living in a society where the only solution to curb violent maniacs is to yourself become a violent maniac, you are not living in a civilized society! Leave immediately for places where raving douchebags don't get to run around armed. This is only one step up from the "State of Nature" or general anarchy. Oh, and good job blaming the victims. Stay classy. Cant believe you are calling people who act out in self defense violent maniacs. You are unhinged and need help No, you just did not understand his post. Someone claimed, less people get killed by crazy people bearing arms when everyone else is armed and immediately shoots them. Considering that everyone bearing arms and being alert and ready to immediately shoot someone if need be can be considered crazy, his argument is quite consistent. Also, citizens bearing arms and killing crazy shoorts is self-justice and in states under the rule of law that is not permitted. The problem is I should have the right not to bear arms and be reasonably safe. I don't like the idea that all anyone with a gun has to do is pull a trigger in order to hurt me.
I also don't like the idea that all anyone with a gun has to do is pull a trigger in order to hurt me.
unfortunately that is the laws of physics.
All Any one with a car has to do is push a lever to hurt you.... etc.
Well I guess they also have to find you... but you are in favor of living in a society correct?
On January 09 2011 11:09 Traveler wrote:
I also don't like the idea that in order to protect myself I should have to buy an expensive weapon.
Seriously... you don't believe in police??? with police you are renting an expensive weapon.
To defend yourself against you fellow human beings you need weapons. Period. Now whether you wield those weapons yourself or trust someone else to do it for you (police/private security) is a choice you can make. I'm sure banks are pissed about having to hire expensive security guards too.
If you feel safe enough with the police, then you don't need to have a weapon, but if the police Don't give you enough safety then you can get one (and incidentally increase the safety of others if You yourself are not a threat... same as the police... more police is good for safety if the police themselves are not threats to safety)
On January 09 2011 11:09 Traveler wrote:
I also don't like the idea that I can't do anything to protect myself against someone with a gun if I don't also have one, running just gets me shot in the back.
Now you tell me how the right to bear arms should supersede my right to personal safety.
The right to bear arms IS your right to personal safety
The police are there for society's safety as a whole not yours personally. (that's why they don't escort you to work every day.. and why there are more cops protecting the President than you, etc.)
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United States238 Posts
Generally in political spectrum, the more right one leans, the more controlling and more prone to use force to keep said control/order.
Julian Assange is one such example: People who want him dead, calling for his assassination and all others, when he has not committed any crime, are all right-wingers.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/axeswithnames.gif)
