|
On January 09 2011 13:52 sekritzzz wrote:
A funny comment from CNN. "President Barack Obama sent FBI Director Richard Mueller to help coordinate the joint investigation, which federal authorities stressed did not appear to have any connection to terrorism."
I wonder if an act of terrorism is only referred to as terrorism when its done by a specific group of people. Shooting political figures for their opinion seems like terrorism to me....
Terrorism is just a buzz word, otherwise every criminal, every parent, and figure of authority can fit the description of a terrorist. Ironically, the term has been used to scare you in to giving up things (you know, to protect you). It's no different than the use of the word 'Democracy' in politics and rhetoric where you believe you have a voice on the national level when in reality that's not how a 'Republic' works.
It's sad to see that such a tragic accident occurred; however, I wouldn't of been so sorrowful if there hadn't been any innocent bystanders injured or killed, but that doesn't mean I won't wish for her recovery for her family's sake as they don't deserve to be punished for the act of someone with a few screws loose. I don't have much respect for politicians, be they Republican or Democrat.
|
On January 09 2011 16:28 annul wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 16:23 hizBALLIN wrote:On January 09 2011 13:59 Silidons wrote:
Terrorism: * the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear
sounds like terrorism to me The subtleties of the English Language are clearly lost upon you if you can mistake an assassination attempt for terrorism. You should punch all your English teachers in the neck. Clearly the goal was to kill important people, not instill fear by killing people, or he would have chosen easier people to kill. While I'm generally more than happy to call out the American Right for the terrorists that they are, the american habit of calling all acts of violence "terrorism" is like a cancer remaining from the Neo-Con Bush administration. By labeling this as terrorism, you influence the way people approach it, and attempt to construe motive when you have no legitimate means of doing so. i hear killing people who vote a certain way and believe a certain thing might have some chilling effects on others who are in similar ideological situations -- they may be more ... i dunno ... afraid? to cast that vote in the house next time... furthermore, there is a disjunctive clause ("or") at the end there, so its not only by instilling fear can one be a terrorist.
Yeah kind of like how iraq has something like 62% voter turn out in the last few elections. Our best was 63 in 1960, and it has declined steadily.
I guess turrurists don't stop elections much, do they?
|
Oh, good news. The gun used, assuming there's only one gunman, was purchased legally. So unless this kid bought it himself, it should lead to the other suspect, or at least a person of interest.
|
Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On January 09 2011 16:10 pfods wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 16:04 Fenrax wrote:
I can only repeat this: look at his YT videos. He is not left, not right. He has no politial motives, he is perfectly insane. He rambles about Mind Control by controlling the grammar, that everybody can create his own currency and grammar and other stuff that makes just no sense.
The way these videos are created show some relation to politics but overall it is just nuts. Nothing of any direction, just insanity. He uses a lot of metaphors. given that you aren't a native speaker of english(if you're actually german) they were probably lost on you, even if you know english extremely well. That said, controlling people through control of language is an idea directly from 1984, which is the wet dream of dystopias for the far right. I don't think this guy is insane. I think he's pathetic and easily manipulated.
Enlighten me, what does "create a new currency" mean?
|
On January 09 2011 11:52 Selith wrote:
Generally in political spectrum, the more right one leans, the more controlling and more prone to use force to keep said control/order.
Julian Assange is one such example: People who want him dead, calling for his assassination and all others, when he has not committed any crime, are all right-wingers.
Is Hillary Clinton or Obama a right-winger? I'm pretty sure that they are the 2 people in the world most upset at this incident. Anyone pro big government is upset (neocons, big govn democrats) with assanage.
This thread has derailed into a "us" vs "them" thread when this is clearly an isolated incident. There is no conspiracy going on. Seriously everyone needs to chill.
|
anybody have a link to the shooters youtube channel?
|
Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
|
On January 09 2011 16:40 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 16:10 pfods wrote:On January 09 2011 16:04 Fenrax wrote:
I can only repeat this: look at his YT videos. He is not left, not right. He has no politial motives, he is perfectly insane. He rambles about Mind Control by controlling the grammar, that everybody can create his own currency and grammar and other stuff that makes just no sense.
The way these videos are created show some relation to politics but overall it is just nuts. Nothing of any direction, just insanity. He uses a lot of metaphors. given that you aren't a native speaker of english(if you're actually german) they were probably lost on you, even if you know english extremely well. That said, controlling people through control of language is an idea directly from 1984, which is the wet dream of dystopias for the far right. I don't think this guy is insane. I think he's pathetic and easily manipulated. Enlighten me, what does "create a new currency" mean?
Create a currency that isn't the current one? One based on gold? It says that in his videos.
|
Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On January 09 2011 16:49 pfods wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 16:40 Fenrax wrote:On January 09 2011 16:10 pfods wrote:On January 09 2011 16:04 Fenrax wrote:
I can only repeat this: look at his YT videos. He is not left, not right. He has no politial motives, he is perfectly insane. He rambles about Mind Control by controlling the grammar, that everybody can create his own currency and grammar and other stuff that makes just no sense.
The way these videos are created show some relation to politics but overall it is just nuts. Nothing of any direction, just insanity. He uses a lot of metaphors. given that you aren't a native speaker of english(if you're actually german) they were probably lost on you, even if you know english extremely well. That said, controlling people through control of language is an idea directly from 1984, which is the wet dream of dystopias for the far right. I don't think this guy is insane. I think he's pathetic and easily manipulated. Enlighten me, what does "create a new currency" mean? Create a currency that isn't the current one? One based on gold? It says that in his videos.
That doesn't convince me that he's not insane at all.
You were talking about metaphors that I couldn't understand as a non native speaker. If currency means currency, then where are the metaphors?
|
On January 09 2011 16:23 hizBALLIN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 13:59 Silidons wrote:
Terrorism: * the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear
sounds like terrorism to me The subtleties of the English Language are clearly lost upon you if you can mistake an assassination attempt for terrorism. You should punch all your English teachers in the neck. Clearly the goal was to kill important people, not instill fear by killing people, or he would have chosen easier people to kill. While I'm generally more than happy to call out the American Right for the terrorists that they are, the american habit of calling all acts of violence "terrorism" is like a cancer remaining from the Neo-Con Bush administration. By labeling this as terrorism, you influence the way people approach it, and attempt to construe motive when you have no legitimate means of doing so.
"Easier" people to kill? It fucking seemed pretty damn easy to me, he fucking walked up and shot the fucking place, talk about an easy fucking kill.
He killed a fucking Democrat that just beat a Republican or Tea Partier whatever the hell he was, who was a god damn war veteran, and on a god damn popular website ran by yours truly Mrs. Palin, has multiple giant fucking cross-points over varies districts in the United States and it seems that you were even previously able to fire a M16 with her opponent that she beat?
Do I have to spell this shit out for you? Maybe you are an English major, but you sure as hell aren't a great puzzle-solver when the damn pieces are lying right in front of your face.
|
On January 09 2011 16:55 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 16:49 pfods wrote:On January 09 2011 16:40 Fenrax wrote:On January 09 2011 16:10 pfods wrote:On January 09 2011 16:04 Fenrax wrote:
I can only repeat this: look at his YT videos. He is not left, not right. He has no politial motives, he is perfectly insane. He rambles about Mind Control by controlling the grammar, that everybody can create his own currency and grammar and other stuff that makes just no sense.
The way these videos are created show some relation to politics but overall it is just nuts. Nothing of any direction, just insanity. He uses a lot of metaphors. given that you aren't a native speaker of english(if you're actually german) they were probably lost on you, even if you know english extremely well. That said, controlling people through control of language is an idea directly from 1984, which is the wet dream of dystopias for the far right. I don't think this guy is insane. I think he's pathetic and easily manipulated. Enlighten me, what does "create a new currency" mean? Create a currency that isn't the current one? One based on gold? It says that in his videos. That doesn't convince me that he's not insane at all. You were talking about metaphors that I couldn't understand as a non native speaker. If currency means currency, then where are the metaphors?
He actually references currency twice, one as an example of free information, one as actual currency. Don't be offended by my saying you probably didn't pick up on some of them, I don't even get exactly what he's talking about.
Plus, conscious dreaming and "literate dreamers" are weird metaphors for those who are aware of the situation? like minded individuals. Trust me, I've talked to a lot of people into politics who talk like this guy, and they aren't insane.
|
Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On January 09 2011 17:00 pfods wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 16:55 Fenrax wrote:On January 09 2011 16:49 pfods wrote:On January 09 2011 16:40 Fenrax wrote:On January 09 2011 16:10 pfods wrote:On January 09 2011 16:04 Fenrax wrote:
I can only repeat this: look at his YT videos. He is not left, not right. He has no politial motives, he is perfectly insane. He rambles about Mind Control by controlling the grammar, that everybody can create his own currency and grammar and other stuff that makes just no sense.
The way these videos are created show some relation to politics but overall it is just nuts. Nothing of any direction, just insanity. He uses a lot of metaphors. given that you aren't a native speaker of english(if you're actually german) they were probably lost on you, even if you know english extremely well. That said, controlling people through control of language is an idea directly from 1984, which is the wet dream of dystopias for the far right. I don't think this guy is insane. I think he's pathetic and easily manipulated. Enlighten me, what does "create a new currency" mean? Create a currency that isn't the current one? One based on gold? It says that in his videos. That doesn't convince me that he's not insane at all. You were talking about metaphors that I couldn't understand as a non native speaker. If currency means currency, then where are the metaphors? He actually references currency twice, one as an example of free information, one as actual currency. Don't be offended by my saying you probably didn't pick up on some of them, I don't even get exactly what he's talking about. Plus, conscious dreaming and "literate dreamers" are weird metaphors for those who are aware of the situation? like minded individuals. Trust me, I've talked to a lot of people into politics who talk like this guy, and they aren't insane.
I don't know. His logic is so weird and flawed. But I agree that there was probably some kind political motivation behind it and that the guy is an extremist. Gifford was on Palin's hair cross because of the health reform and from what I can see in his videos he was probably extremely against any kind of governmental control.
But I also think that by ""consciense" dreaming" he actually means that. He might think that his imagination in his mind creates his reality. It was his way to escape the mind control and grammar control of the government/the "mind controller". So he is probably both, insane and extremist.
|
On January 09 2011 17:21 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 17:00 pfods wrote:On January 09 2011 16:55 Fenrax wrote:On January 09 2011 16:49 pfods wrote:On January 09 2011 16:40 Fenrax wrote:On January 09 2011 16:10 pfods wrote:On January 09 2011 16:04 Fenrax wrote:
I can only repeat this: look at his YT videos. He is not left, not right. He has no politial motives, he is perfectly insane. He rambles about Mind Control by controlling the grammar, that everybody can create his own currency and grammar and other stuff that makes just no sense.
The way these videos are created show some relation to politics but overall it is just nuts. Nothing of any direction, just insanity. He uses a lot of metaphors. given that you aren't a native speaker of english(if you're actually german) they were probably lost on you, even if you know english extremely well. That said, controlling people through control of language is an idea directly from 1984, which is the wet dream of dystopias for the far right. I don't think this guy is insane. I think he's pathetic and easily manipulated. Enlighten me, what does "create a new currency" mean? Create a currency that isn't the current one? One based on gold? It says that in his videos. That doesn't convince me that he's not insane at all. You were talking about metaphors that I couldn't understand as a non native speaker. If currency means currency, then where are the metaphors? He actually references currency twice, one as an example of free information, one as actual currency. Don't be offended by my saying you probably didn't pick up on some of them, I don't even get exactly what he's talking about. Plus, conscious dreaming and "literate dreamers" are weird metaphors for those who are aware of the situation? like minded individuals. Trust me, I've talked to a lot of people into politics who talk like this guy, and they aren't insane. I don't know. His logic is so weird and flawed. But I agree that there was probably some kind political motivation behind it and that the guy is an extremist. Gifford was on Palin's hair cross because of the health reform and from what I can see in his videos he was probably extremely against any kind of governmental control. But I also think that by ""consciense" dreaming" he actually means that. He might think that his imagination in his mind creates his reality. It was his way to escape the mind control and grammar control of the government/the "mind controller". So he is probably both, insane and extremist.
well conscious dreamers is a term used to describe people who are blind to what is going on around them, so being conscious but essentially dreaming At least that's how I use it and have heard others use it. I don't deny the guy has to have a screw loose to do something like this, but I just can't jump on the insanity bandwagon to justify his actions.
|
Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On January 09 2011 17:25 pfods wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 17:21 Fenrax wrote:On January 09 2011 17:00 pfods wrote:On January 09 2011 16:55 Fenrax wrote:On January 09 2011 16:49 pfods wrote:On January 09 2011 16:40 Fenrax wrote:On January 09 2011 16:10 pfods wrote:On January 09 2011 16:04 Fenrax wrote:
I can only repeat this: look at his YT videos. He is not left, not right. He has no politial motives, he is perfectly insane. He rambles about Mind Control by controlling the grammar, that everybody can create his own currency and grammar and other stuff that makes just no sense.
The way these videos are created show some relation to politics but overall it is just nuts. Nothing of any direction, just insanity. He uses a lot of metaphors. given that you aren't a native speaker of english(if you're actually german) they were probably lost on you, even if you know english extremely well. That said, controlling people through control of language is an idea directly from 1984, which is the wet dream of dystopias for the far right. I don't think this guy is insane. I think he's pathetic and easily manipulated. Enlighten me, what does "create a new currency" mean? Create a currency that isn't the current one? One based on gold? It says that in his videos. That doesn't convince me that he's not insane at all. You were talking about metaphors that I couldn't understand as a non native speaker. If currency means currency, then where are the metaphors? He actually references currency twice, one as an example of free information, one as actual currency. Don't be offended by my saying you probably didn't pick up on some of them, I don't even get exactly what he's talking about. Plus, conscious dreaming and "literate dreamers" are weird metaphors for those who are aware of the situation? like minded individuals. Trust me, I've talked to a lot of people into politics who talk like this guy, and they aren't insane. I don't know. His logic is so weird and flawed. But I agree that there was probably some kind political motivation behind it and that the guy is an extremist. Gifford was on Palin's hair cross because of the health reform and from what I can see in his videos he was probably extremely against any kind of governmental control. But I also think that by ""consciense" dreaming" he actually means that. He might think that his imagination in his mind creates his reality. It was his way to escape the mind control and grammar control of the government/the "mind controller". So he is probably both, insane and extremist. well conscious dreamers is a term used to describe people who are blind to what is going on around them, so being conscious but essentially dreaming At least that's how I use it and have heard others use it. I don't deny the guy has to have a screw loose to do something like this, but I just can't jump on the insanity bandwagon to justify his actions.
It is about understanding it, not about justifying it. I don't care if he sits the rest of his life in jail, in a mental asylum or if he gets executed.
But he refers to himself as a ""Conscience" Dreamer". He wouldn't do that if he thought that this means lack of understanding. In his mind only the dreamers understand what is going on. He also writes about how he is a sleepwalker and that a sleepwalker "performs motor acts while asleep" and that he is sleeping when he posted that youtube video and that he will be conscious dreaming again in a few days.
|
On January 09 2011 17:37 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 17:25 pfods wrote:On January 09 2011 17:21 Fenrax wrote:On January 09 2011 17:00 pfods wrote:On January 09 2011 16:55 Fenrax wrote:On January 09 2011 16:49 pfods wrote:On January 09 2011 16:40 Fenrax wrote:On January 09 2011 16:10 pfods wrote:On January 09 2011 16:04 Fenrax wrote:
I can only repeat this: look at his YT videos. He is not left, not right. He has no politial motives, he is perfectly insane. He rambles about Mind Control by controlling the grammar, that everybody can create his own currency and grammar and other stuff that makes just no sense.
The way these videos are created show some relation to politics but overall it is just nuts. Nothing of any direction, just insanity. He uses a lot of metaphors. given that you aren't a native speaker of english(if you're actually german) they were probably lost on you, even if you know english extremely well. That said, controlling people through control of language is an idea directly from 1984, which is the wet dream of dystopias for the far right. I don't think this guy is insane. I think he's pathetic and easily manipulated. Enlighten me, what does "create a new currency" mean? Create a currency that isn't the current one? One based on gold? It says that in his videos. That doesn't convince me that he's not insane at all. You were talking about metaphors that I couldn't understand as a non native speaker. If currency means currency, then where are the metaphors? He actually references currency twice, one as an example of free information, one as actual currency. Don't be offended by my saying you probably didn't pick up on some of them, I don't even get exactly what he's talking about. Plus, conscious dreaming and "literate dreamers" are weird metaphors for those who are aware of the situation? like minded individuals. Trust me, I've talked to a lot of people into politics who talk like this guy, and they aren't insane. I don't know. His logic is so weird and flawed. But I agree that there was probably some kind political motivation behind it and that the guy is an extremist. Gifford was on Palin's hair cross because of the health reform and from what I can see in his videos he was probably extremely against any kind of governmental control. But I also think that by ""consciense" dreaming" he actually means that. He might think that his imagination in his mind creates his reality. It was his way to escape the mind control and grammar control of the government/the "mind controller". So he is probably both, insane and extremist. well conscious dreamers is a term used to describe people who are blind to what is going on around them, so being conscious but essentially dreaming At least that's how I use it and have heard others use it. I don't deny the guy has to have a screw loose to do something like this, but I just can't jump on the insanity bandwagon to justify his actions. It is about understanding it, not about justifying it. I don't care if he sits the rest of his life in jail, in a mental asylum or if he gets executed. But he refers to himself as a ""Conscience" Dreamer". He wouldn't do that if he thought that this means lack of understanding. In his mind only the dreamers understand what is going on. He also writes about how he is a sleepwalker and that a sleepwalker "performs motor acts while asleep" and that he is sleeping when he posted that youtube video and that he will be conscious dreaming again in a few days.
Maybe he thinks of himself as someone who doesn't know what is happening? I really have no idea, given that he hasn't made any statements and nothing else has been said about him. From the information about him I'm guessing he's normal. Insane people don't tend to do well in public or with others.
|
|
|
On January 09 2011 16:58 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 16:23 hizBALLIN wrote:On January 09 2011 13:59 Silidons wrote:
Terrorism: * the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear
sounds like terrorism to me The subtleties of the English Language are clearly lost upon you if you can mistake an assassination attempt for terrorism. You should punch all your English teachers in the neck. Clearly the goal was to kill important people, not instill fear by killing people, or he would have chosen easier people to kill. While I'm generally more than happy to call out the American Right for the terrorists that they are, the american habit of calling all acts of violence "terrorism" is like a cancer remaining from the Neo-Con Bush administration. By labeling this as terrorism, you influence the way people approach it, and attempt to construe motive when you have no legitimate means of doing so. "Easier" people to kill? It fucking seemed pretty damn easy to me, he fucking walked up and shot the fucking place, talk about an easy fucking kill. He killed a fucking Democrat that just beat a Republican or Tea Partier whatever the hell he was, who was a god damn war veteran, and on a god damn popular website ran by yours truly Mrs. Palin, has multiple giant fucking cross-points over varies districts in the United States and it seems that you were even previously able to fire a M16 with her opponent that she beat? Do I have to spell this shit out for you? Maybe you are an English major, but you sure as hell aren't a great puzzle-solver when the damn pieces are lying right in front of your face.
You're looking for connections that don't exist. I hate Palin and the entire Tea Party myself, but this guy was genuinely insane. If his theoretical accomplice sought to advance their own cause or that of the Tea Party/Palin by giving him a gun and a target, then it does certainly implicate them. Until we know whether or not this is the case, we can't pass judgment.
|
On January 09 2011 16:32 Babyfactory wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 13:52 sekritzzz wrote:
A funny comment from CNN. "President Barack Obama sent FBI Director Richard Mueller to help coordinate the joint investigation, which federal authorities stressed did not appear to have any connection to terrorism."
I wonder if an act of terrorism is only referred to as terrorism when its done by a specific group of people. Shooting political figures for their opinion seems like terrorism to me.... Terrorism is just a buzz word, otherwise every criminal, every parent, and figure of authority can fit the description of a terrorist. Ironically, the term has been used to scare you in to giving up things (you know, to protect you). It's no different than the use of the word 'Democracy' in politics and rhetoric where you believe you have a voice on the national level when in reality that's not how a 'Republic' works. It's sad to see that such a tragic accident occurred; however, I wouldn't of been so sorrowful if there hadn't been any innocent bystanders injured or killed, but that doesn't mean I won't wish for her recovery for her family's sake as they don't deserve to be punished for the act of someone with a few screws loose. I don't have much respect for politicians, be they Republican or Democrat.
Or maybe it's someone whos goal is to inflict terror...
|
On January 09 2011 11:47 Krikkitone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 11:09 Traveler wrote:On January 09 2011 10:59 Electric.Jesus wrote:On January 09 2011 10:49 TributeBoxer wrote:On January 09 2011 10:42 NicolBolas wrote:On January 09 2011 10:02 Warlike Prince wrote:
"At least five other people, including members of her staff, were hurt."
If more citizens would walk around armed no nut job would ever get off more than a couple shots off. Protect your selves people, no one is gunna do it for you If you're living in a society where, in order to be reasonably safe, you must be armed and ready to kill at a moments notice, you are not living in a civilized society! If you are living in a society where the only solution to curb violent maniacs is to yourself become a violent maniac, you are not living in a civilized society! Leave immediately for places where raving douchebags don't get to run around armed. This is only one step up from the "State of Nature" or general anarchy. Oh, and good job blaming the victims. Stay classy.  Cant believe you are calling people who act out in self defense violent maniacs. You are unhinged and need help No, you just did not understand his post. Someone claimed, less people get killed by crazy people bearing arms when everyone else is armed and immediately shoots them. Considering that everyone bearing arms and being alert and ready to immediately shoot someone if need be can be considered crazy, his argument is quite consistent. Also, citizens bearing arms and killing crazy shoorts is self-justice and in states under the rule of law that is not permitted. The problem is I should have the right not to bear arms and be reasonably safe. I don't like the idea that all anyone with a gun has to do is pull a trigger in order to hurt me. I also don't like the idea that all anyone with a gun has to do is pull a trigger in order to hurt me. unfortunately that is the laws of physics. All Any one with a car has to do is push a lever to hurt you.... etc. Well I guess they also have to find you... but you are in favor of living in a society correct? Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 11:09 Traveler wrote:
I also don't like the idea that in order to protect myself I should have to buy an expensive weapon.
Seriously... you don't believe in police??? with police you are renting an expensive weapon. To defend yourself against you fellow human beings you need weapons. Period. Now whether you wield those weapons yourself or trust someone else to do it for you (police/private security) is a choice you can make. I'm sure banks are pissed about having to hire expensive security guards too. If you feel safe enough with the police, then you don't need to have a weapon, but if the police Don't give you enough safety then you can get one (and incidentally increase the safety of others if You yourself are not a threat... same as the police... more police is good for safety if the police themselves are not threats to safety) Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 11:09 Traveler wrote:
I also don't like the idea that I can't do anything to protect myself against someone with a gun if I don't also have one, running just gets me shot in the back.
Now you tell me how the right to bear arms should supersede my right to personal safety.
The right to bear arms IS your right to personal safety The police are there for society's safety as a whole not yours personally. (that's why they don't escort you to work every day.. and why there are more cops protecting the President than you, etc.)
Unfortunately you seemed to have missed a key word in each of my statements, "like".
But whatever I acknowledge the reality we live in, luckily since I am fairly wealthy I don't have to deal with most of the violent parts of it.
Pertaining to the last statement, giving more people the ability to do harm doesn't seem to make us safer. However sometimes it does, until of course things go horribly wrong (cold war not turning out that way, yet). Anyways, we might as well arm everyone with nuclear weapons, it is along the same line, and has about the same effect. The crazy people use them to kill others, and the sane people try to use them to protect themselves, now of course we realize that not letting anyone have weapons is a whole lot safer, but most conservatives don't trust anyone with more power than themselves.
|
Osaka27114 Posts
Too many reports stemming from this thread, if someone wants to try again be my guest.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
