PLEASE STOP THE GUN CONTROL DEBATE IN THIS THREAD. IT IS UNWARRANTED AND UNNECESSARY.
U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona was shot outside a grocery store in Tucson while holding a public event, Arizona Public Media reported Saturday.
The Democrat, who was re-elected to her third term in November, was hosting her first "Congress on Your Corner" event at the Safeway in northwest Tucson when a gunman ran up and started shooting, according to Peter Michaels, news director of Arizona Public Media.
At least five other people, including members of her staff, were hurt. Giffords was transported to University Medical Center in Tucson. Her condition was not immediately known.
Giffords was talking to a couple when the man ran up firing indiscriminately, and then ran off, Michaels said. According to other witnesses, he was tackled by a bystander and taken into custody.
Giffords was first elected to represent Arizona's 8th District in 2006. She has hosted the "Congress on Your Corner" events, which allow constituents to present their concerns directly to her, regularly since taking office.
It sounds like this just happened. A quick Google search found that only the local newspaper in Tuscon has the story, as of twenty-one minutes ago. And I can't access the article; I'm assuming it's down due to traffic.
Arizonian TL.net users, what are your opinions? What do you think this guy's motivation was? She actually sounds like a really cool member of Congress, periodically meeting with constituents face-to-face like that. I hope she's okay.
UPDATE: John Roll, a federal judge, is confirmed dead, along with four other people. Five injured. We're currently awaiting a press conference from the hospital where Rep. Gifford is.
The shooter's name is confirmed to be Jared Laughner, a 22 year old white male. Surgeon is "very omtimistic" about Rep. Gifford. :D
why is everyone so gun happy to our public officials now? This is the second time in the past month or two that some nut goes up to people that the majority of people elected and decided to take matters into their own hand and "take them out."
It's actually getting quite annoying. Can we just have universal agreement to calm the f*** down. Not everything in life needs to be solved with a gun, in fact most things in life aren't solved greatly with guns (as if that wasn't obvious).
On January 09 2011 03:44 elkram wrote: It's actually getting quite annoying. Can we just have universal agreement to calm the f*** down.
Of course you can't. If the people doing this were rational enough for that they wouldn't be doing it in the first place. Radicals will always exist in spite of popular opinion.
On January 09 2011 03:43 Jameser wrote: arizona is the state where the police can kick you out for not having your immigration forms on you at all times correct?
No, Arizona is the state that can kick you out if you are an illegal immigrant. If you don't have your papers on you they can take you into custody until you can provide them though. You really should have the papers on you at all times anyways, I mean, if you are driving a car you are required to be carrying your drivers license the whole time, it's the same concept.
On January 09 2011 03:45 Krigwin wrote: Wait, which state was it where the Tea Party guy said for there to be "second amendment solutions"?
Wasn't that Sharron Angle? From Nevada?
Right, right, that was it.
So this just sounds like a citizen taking a 2nd Amendment solution to whatever grievance he had with this congresswoman! Since this is Arizona, I'm going to go ahead and assume she was on the side of either immigration or prison reform.
On January 09 2011 03:45 Krigwin wrote: Wait, which state was it where the Tea Party guy said for there to be "second amendment solutions"?
Tea Party candidate Sharron Angle say: "If we don't get what we want at the ballot box, we can always turn to our 2nd Amendment remedies."
Since I do not know what 2nd Amendment stands for, so I did a quick search on Wikipedia, it stated it's part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms.
So what does that mean when she says the above? Is she seriously suggesting that people should use arms to change politics? Or is there another context? If not she is a crazy woman :S
On January 09 2011 03:45 Krigwin wrote: Wait, which state was it where the Tea Party guy said for there to be "second amendment solutions"?
Tea Party candidate Sharron Angle say: "If we don't get what we want at the ballot box, we can always turn to our 2nd Amendment remedies."
Since I do not know what 2nd Amendment stands for, so I did a quick search on Wikipedia, it stated it's part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms.
So what does that mean when she says the above? Is she seriously suggesting that people should use arms to change politics? Or is there another context? If not she is a crazy woman :S
It's a *nudge* *nudge* kind of way to suggest/imply that you understand the fringe elements of the party. I don't know what to make of the conservative party in this country, honestly.
On January 09 2011 03:45 Krigwin wrote: Wait, which state was it where the Tea Party guy said for there to be "second amendment solutions"?
Tea Party candidate Sharron Angle say: "If we don't get what we want at the ballot box, we can always turn to our 2nd Amendment remedies."
Since I do not know what 2nd Amendment stands for, so I did a quick search on Wikipedia, it stated it's part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms.
So what does that mean when she says the above? Is she seriously suggesting that people should use arms to change politics? Or is there another context? If not she is a crazy woman :S
That is likely what she means, and yes, she is a crazy woman.
On January 09 2011 03:45 Krigwin wrote: Wait, which state was it where the Tea Party guy said for there to be "second amendment solutions"?
Tea Party candidate Sharron Angle say: "If we don't get what we want at the ballot box, we can always turn to our 2nd Amendment remedies."
Since I do not know what 2nd Amendment stands for, so I did a quick search on Wikipedia, it stated it's part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms.
So what does that mean when she says the above? Is she seriously suggesting that people should use arms to change politics? Or is there another context? If not she is a crazy woman :S
She's implying exactly that. The woman is completely batshit insane. You should google more about her, there's some really priceless quotes from her.
On January 09 2011 03:57 Draconizard wrote: What is the procedure for replacing her? Will the governor (Brewer) get to simply appoint whoever she chooses?
I don't know if Arizona does that, or if it's like Massachusetts and has a special election for the seat (in the case of Ted Kennedy's death).
I hope she survives this. It'd be a shame to lose a representative in such a manner. Personally, I think that no representative, from any party, deserves this kind of fate. It's cruel and unforgiving, and I condemn those who encourage acts like this. I feel that there is always a way to talk things out, in fact there was a quote from someone (I can't recall the name >.<) that said something along the lines of "Violence is for those who are afraid of negotiation"
On January 09 2011 04:04 blahman3344 wrote: I hope she survives this. It'd be a shame to lose a representative in such a manner. Personally, I think that no representative, from any party, deserves this kind of fate. It's cruel and unforgiving, and I condone those who encourage acts like this. I feel that there is always a way to talk things out, in fact there was a quote from someone (I can't recall the name >.<) that said something along the lines of "Violence is for those who are afraid of negotiation"
My parents think that this was the work of a Mexican drug cartel. I doubt that, but why would they kill a Democratic Congresswoman? Aren't Repubs the ones trying to shut down the border?
On January 09 2011 03:45 Krigwin wrote: Wait, which state was it where the Tea Party guy said for there to be "second amendment solutions"?
Tea Party candidate Sharron Angle say: "If we don't get what we want at the ballot box, we can always turn to our 2nd Amendment remedies."
Since I do not know what 2nd Amendment stands for, so I did a quick search on Wikipedia, it stated it's part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms.
So what does that mean when she says the above? Is she seriously suggesting that people should use arms to change politics? Or is there another context? If not she is a crazy woman :S
That is likely what she means, and yes, she is a crazy woman.
On January 09 2011 03:45 Krigwin wrote: Wait, which state was it where the Tea Party guy said for there to be "second amendment solutions"?
Tea Party candidate Sharron Angle say: "If we don't get what we want at the ballot box, we can always turn to our 2nd Amendment remedies."
Since I do not know what 2nd Amendment stands for, so I did a quick search on Wikipedia, it stated it's part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms.
So what does that mean when she says the above? Is she seriously suggesting that people should use arms to change politics? Or is there another context? If not she is a crazy woman :S
She's implying exactly that. The woman is completely batshit insane. You should google more about her, there's some really priceless quotes from her.
Whoa, hey, she got 44% of the votes, you guys should be more careful with your language there.
On January 09 2011 04:13 THE_DOMINATOR wrote: my bet is that she was involved in the drug cartel in some way. She's too low on the chain for this to be politically motivated.
... O.o
I'll just ignore that for now. My heart goes out to her and the other's family and loved ones. Very sad. Talk about now being like about your constituents...just takes one crazy person to ruin everything.
On January 09 2011 04:13 THE_DOMINATOR wrote: my bet is that she was involved in the drug cartel in some way. She's too low on the chain for this to be politically motivated.
That's the most horrible assertion I've heard. She is exactly the kind of person some retard in their 20s would lash out at over political concerns. Unlike the president, congressmen don't usually have a huge secret service detail.
On January 09 2011 03:45 Krigwin wrote: Wait, which state was it where the Tea Party guy said for there to be "second amendment solutions"?
Tea Party candidate Sharron Angle say: "If we don't get what we want at the ballot box, we can always turn to our 2nd Amendment remedies."
Since I do not know what 2nd Amendment stands for, so I did a quick search on Wikipedia, it stated it's part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms.
So what does that mean when she says the above? Is she seriously suggesting that people should use arms to change politics? Or is there another context? If not she is a crazy woman :S
That is likely what she means, and yes, she is a crazy woman.
On January 09 2011 03:45 Krigwin wrote: Wait, which state was it where the Tea Party guy said for there to be "second amendment solutions"?
Tea Party candidate Sharron Angle say: "If we don't get what we want at the ballot box, we can always turn to our 2nd Amendment remedies."
Since I do not know what 2nd Amendment stands for, so I did a quick search on Wikipedia, it stated it's part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms.
So what does that mean when she says the above? Is she seriously suggesting that people should use arms to change politics? Or is there another context? If not she is a crazy woman :S
She's implying exactly that. The woman is completely batshit insane. You should google more about her, there's some really priceless quotes from her.
Whoa, hey, she got 44% of the votes, you guys should be more careful with your language there.
Only because her opponent was Harry Reid, one of the most hated people in the Senate.
On January 09 2011 04:13 THE_DOMINATOR wrote: my bet is that she was involved in the drug cartel in some way. She's too low on the chain for this to be politically motivated.
I'm disgusted by the instant politicization/conclusion-jumping that I'm seeing on other websites, but I will mention that apparently this congresswoman was on Sarah Palin's "crosshairs" map that was released some time ago.
Either way, I don't think it makes any sense to pass judgments like this until we have more information.
On January 09 2011 04:13 THE_DOMINATOR wrote: my bet is that she was involved in the drug cartel in some way. She's too low on the chain for this to be politically motivated.
I'm disgusted by the instant politicization/conclusion-jumping that I'm seeing on other websites, but I will mention that apparently this congresswoman was on Sarah Palin's "crosshairs" map that was released some time ago.
Either way, I don't think it makes any sense to pass judgments like this until we have more information.
Just to add to this, They found a gun at an event of hers in 2009 after someone made the threat that the organizers of the event would "face up to the second amendment" if they kept stifling the first amendment
Gawker: "The man was young, mid-to-late 20s, white clean-shaven with short hair and wearing dark clothing and said nothing during the shooting or while being held down. He didn't look like a businessman, but more of a "fringe character," our source said."
NPR: "At least 6 other killed"
Reportedly the shooter called out names as he was aiming at his targets.
Supports Abortion (-) Supports use of renewable energy (Neutral overall) Supports gun ownership (+) Anti-immigration (+) Voted for bailout (Neutral overall)
It sounds like she is closer to the right than to the left. I would be very surprised if a Republican killed her due to party affiliation but you know the TEA Party, very uninformed.
But we need much more information on the assailant before any assumptions (FML I am totally guilty of that in the same post)
On January 09 2011 04:25 Serendipicus wrote: Gawker: "The man was young, mid-to-late 20s, white clean-shaven with short hair and wearing dark clothing and said nothing during the shooting or while being held down. He didn't look like a businessman, but more of a "fringe character," our source said."
NPR: "At least 6 other killed"
Seven dead with only one assailant and weapon? He knew what he was doing. Probably ex-military or PMC.
Jesus Christ, Giffords was shot in the head at point blank range and at least 4 others including a child are dead. A total of 12 people were injured or killed during the shooting.
I don't want to blame this on right wing conservatives, I really don't but seeing things like Sarah Palin's Hit list, reading the quotes by that candidate about 2nd amendment rights, and just hearing certain groups involving beverages (tea party) really makes it hard for me not to immediately think of them.
I also agree with above poster (Offhand), that kind of efficiency with a hand gun means he had training >_<
On January 09 2011 04:26 Shiragaku wrote: Supports Abortion (-) Supports use of renewable energy (Neutral overall) Supports gun ownership (+) Anti-immigration (+) Voted for bailout (Neutral overall)
It sounds like she is closer to the right than to the left. I would be very surprised if a Republican killed her due to party affiliation but you know the TEA Party, very uninformed.
Remember, this is Arizona we're talking about. What's roughly centrist would be considered liberal over there.
On January 09 2011 04:37 Mawi wrote: I had a feeling something like this would happend sooner or later.. probably more to come if things go their ways.
^^^^ oh she didnt die now thats impressive.
not yet anyway, chances of surviving a shot to the head have to be pretty slim.
I don't even know what to say to this. No call for it at all. II don't care who you're affiliated with, I don't care what you believe in, there is no reason to just walk up to people and just fire away out of nowhere....especially at a grocery store.
How can Sarah Palin release a map with goddamn crosshairs and not get in trouble? That's really the one thing that bugs me with the US. Anywhere else (well, anywhere else decent) in the world you do that, your political career is absolutely over.
On January 09 2011 04:39 ket- wrote: How can Sarah Palin release a map with goddamn crosshairs and not get in trouble? That's really the one thing that bugs me with the US. Anywhere else (well, anywhere else decent) in the world you do that, your political career is absolutely over.
jujust. Got back from aballoon gig on phone computer died. This is crazy and it happened not to far from where I live about 15 min drive. Crazy wakkoos
On January 09 2011 04:39 ket- wrote: How can Sarah Palin release a map with goddamn crosshairs and not get in trouble? That's really the one thing that bugs me with the US. Anywhere else (well, anywhere else decent) in the world you do that, your political career is absolutely over.
Oh, they'll be a mention of her crosshair poster somewhere on the news. Then it will be rebuked by saying she didn't force this person into the doing anything. She and many others will go on spewing hate and vitriol with no consequences.
Hell, Sarah probably believes she's not inciting violence. The lady has to be borderline retarded, I swear.
On January 09 2011 04:25 Serendipicus wrote: Gawker: "The man was young, mid-to-late 20s, white clean-shaven with short hair and wearing dark clothing and said nothing during the shooting or while being held down. He didn't look like a businessman, but more of a "fringe character," our source said."
NPR: "At least 6 other killed"
Reportedly the shooter called out names as he was aiming at his targets.
Those damn immigrants and Muslims messing up our country.
This makes me sick. I hope the backlash from this is so severe that the current idiotic movements get crushed.
On January 09 2011 04:39 ket- wrote: How can Sarah Palin release a map with goddamn crosshairs and not get in trouble? That's really the one thing that bugs me with the US. Anywhere else (well, anywhere else decent) in the world you do that, your political career is absolutely over.
ye. This is why it happened. and exactly what the context was. Cause we're that intelligent
On January 09 2011 04:50 fofa2000 wrote: That's what happen when everybody is allowed to carry a gun...
Not that I'm pro-gun or anything, but chances are if you're stalking and killing government officials in crowded areas you probably don't care what you're "allowed" to do.
On January 09 2011 04:54 DwD wrote: What's this SarahPac? Is it Sarah Palin's official blog or something?
SarahPAC is a PAC formed by Sarah Palin in January of 2009.
In the United States, PACs, or Political Action Committees, are private organizations design to elect a certain candidate (or group of candidates), or advance a certain outcome of a political issue or legislation. They're typically used to help circumnavigate various campaign finance laws that limit the size and type of political donations to candidates and political causes.
On January 09 2011 04:39 ket- wrote: How can Sarah Palin release a map with goddamn crosshairs and not get in trouble? That's really the one thing that bugs me with the US. Anywhere else (well, anywhere else decent) in the world you do that, your political career is absolutely over.
ye. This is why it happened. and exactly what the context was. Cause we're that intelligent
The point is you need to take responsibility for what you say. Thats what the republican party is about remember?
On January 09 2011 04:50 fofa2000 wrote: That's what happen when everybody is allowed to carry a gun...
No, this is what happens when, as a country, sarah palin, sharon angle, and christine o'donnell are serious political adversaries.
America is a stupid country, and we live off of fear and bogie men. Owning a gun doesn't make someone think "i should go kill that congresswoman and six other people". Listening to people like beck, hannity, and limbaugh and taking that absolute garbage as fact is what motivates someone to do this.
don't retreat, reload second amendment solutions take our country back close the borders! terrorists/druggies/people who speak more harder den us QQ war on christmas, war on christianity the president is unfit to serve. he's a muslims/kenyan/communist
Every day this is the kind of shit that gets spewed in the american media. EVERY. FUCKING. DAY. This has been non-stop since I started following the news (sixth grade, when 9/11 happened). Morons only take so much of this before they start taking action.
In other words, don't use the deaths of these people to make an excuse for gun control. It's disgusting political pandering and has no purpose in this thread.
Not that I'm pro-gun or anything, but chances are if you're stalking and killing government officials in crowded areas you probably don't care what you're "allowed" to do.
Allowed or not if you don't have the means to do damage you're less likely to do any. Edit: It could be a question of mentality as well considering how American politic works.
Not that I'm pro-gun or anything, but chances are if you're stalking and killing government officials in crowded areas you probably don't care what you're "allowed" to do.
Allowed or not if you don't have the means to do damage you're less likely to do any.
Instead he would have used a hunting rifle, legal to own even in countries with gun control, and shot her lee harvey oswald style.
stop with the gun control shit. Make your own thread about it.
On January 09 2011 04:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: This is ridiculous. Sarah Palin seriously needs to be put in an asylum, and people need to calm the fuck down.
To be fair, she is far from the only source motivating these lunatics. We can't forget Rush, Fox News, Beck, etc...
And on the other side of this; Yes, Sarah and others deserve to be called out on their contributions to motivating lunatics. Sure, they aren't forcing people to shoot others. But, they are promoting violence. Albeit in a round-a-bout, cover their own ass way.
"My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today's tragic shooting in Arizona.
On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice."
Wow, I wonder why sarah palin jumped so quick to make a statement about this....maybe because she realizes her little crosshairs map is going to be dragged up out of the muck and thrown around the media for the next week?
On January 09 2011 05:01 DamnCats wrote: gun control is not the problem here people, its god damn retards listening to Palin, Angle, Odonnel, Beck, Hannity, etc.
fuck.
no. it's actually not. I understand people are entitled to there own opinion. But id like to point out your opinion is pretty much garbage.
On January 09 2011 04:39 ket- wrote: How can Sarah Palin release a map with goddamn crosshairs and not get in trouble? That's really the one thing that bugs me with the US. Anywhere else (well, anywhere else decent) in the world you do that, your political career is absolutely over.
ye. This is why it happened. and exactly what the context was. Cause we're that intelligent
No, because some people with guns are that intelligent. It takes one misguided person with a gun. Not the average person thinking that this is what is called for. One person can ruin things for everyone else. Things like that map with crosshairs don't incite masses to go on bloody rampages. But they may just help nudge certain people to act instead of talk. I'm not saying Palin incited murder, but to say that a prominent public figure using crosshairs as a metaphor for her targets carries some influence.
So the Sarah Pac website first removed the crosshair on the map that was on Gifford and now the whole site is down... Someone is going "Oh shit" right about now..
On January 09 2011 04:39 ket- wrote: How can Sarah Palin release a map with goddamn crosshairs and not get in trouble? That's really the one thing that bugs me with the US. Anywhere else (well, anywhere else decent) in the world you do that, your political career is absolutely over.
ye. This is why it happened. and exactly what the context was. Cause we're that intelligent
No, because some people with guns are that intelligent. It takes one misguided person with a gun. Not the average person thinking that this is what is called for. One person can ruin things for everyone else. Things like that map with crosshairs don't incite masses to go on bloody rampages. But they may just help nudge certain people to act instead of talk. I'm not saying Palin incited murder, but to say that a prominent public figure using crosshairs as a metaphor for her targets carries some influence.
no. they are irrelevant. Much like reading catcher in the rye made someone kill john lennon. A crosshair on a map of america does not make people go out and kill each other. no. please get some common sense.
On January 09 2011 05:01 DamnCats wrote: gun control is not the problem here people, its god damn retards listening to Palin, Angle, Odonnel, Beck, Hannity, etc.
fuck.
I completely agree with this statement.
It sounds like she might be alive, which is crazy, though, less impossible things have happened. I hope she is still there though, if the bullet entered the brain whatsoever, then it's most likely she will have a ton of brain damage and never be the same again. There is a reason most people die instantly from a gun shot wound to the head, it's not pretty what a bullet can do.
It's crazy that people in public office, trying to serve, and doing things that she thinks is right(props to her for doing this street corner thing, it sounds really cool, going out and hearing the opinions of those that she serves)... and then getting shot... that really turns other politicians away from listening to us don't you think..
I can't wait for the Daily Show / Colbert Report on Monday. Probably the only 2 of the mainstream that have the guts to really call Palin out on this BS.
On January 09 2011 05:00 ragnasaur wrote: why would anybody possibly want to shoot this woman?
She's a member of a US political party. This means both she and her adversaries are insane, delusional, and hurting the American people.
that may be the case, but a shooting is never justified. I wonder what she did/does that caused enough conflict to trigger a assassination attempt @_@.
arguments for/against gun control centers only around self defense, initiation of violence is something everyone hates.
On January 09 2011 04:39 ket- wrote: How can Sarah Palin release a map with goddamn crosshairs and not get in trouble? That's really the one thing that bugs me with the US. Anywhere else (well, anywhere else decent) in the world you do that, your political career is absolutely over.
ye. This is why it happened. and exactly what the context was. Cause we're that intelligent
No, because some people with guns are that intelligent. It takes one misguided person with a gun. Not the average person thinking that this is what is called for. One person can ruin things for everyone else. Things like that map with crosshairs don't incite masses to go on bloody rampages. But they may just help nudge certain people to act instead of talk. I'm not saying Palin incited murder, but to say that a prominent public figure using crosshairs as a metaphor for her targets carries some influence.
no. they are irrelevant. Much like reading catcher in the rye made someone kill john lennon. A crosshair on a map of america does not make people go out and kill each other. no. please get some common sense.
It's part of the grander scheme of turning a political debate into a "war" which must be won for the sake of the future. It becomes a "cosmic" issue of greater importance, good and evil. This is what Palin, Beck and all the other Tea Party idiots have been doing for several years, and manipulating foolish people to secure their own careers.
On January 09 2011 04:39 ket- wrote: How can Sarah Palin release a map with goddamn crosshairs and not get in trouble? That's really the one thing that bugs me with the US. Anywhere else (well, anywhere else decent) in the world you do that, your political career is absolutely over.
ye. This is why it happened. and exactly what the context was. Cause we're that intelligent
No, because some people with guns are that intelligent. It takes one misguided person with a gun. Not the average person thinking that this is what is called for. One person can ruin things for everyone else. Things like that map with crosshairs don't incite masses to go on bloody rampages. But they may just help nudge certain people to act instead of talk. I'm not saying Palin incited murder, but to say that a prominent public figure using crosshairs as a metaphor for her targets carries some influence.
no. they are irrelevant. Much like reading catcher in the rye made someone kill john lennon. A crosshair on a map of america does not make people go out and kill each other. no. please get some common sense.
Then I guess every citizen around the world who has ever supported a mass murdering tyrant was also just a complete bloody wretch because public figures don't have any influence over others with what they say. right?
Does no one remember the abortion doctor from kansas, tiller?
TILLER THE BABY KILLER! TILLER THE BABY KILLER! o'reilly had something like a dozen shows dedicated to TILLER THE BABY KILLER!!!!! finally someone, who watched o'reilly nightly and owned all of his books, shot the man while in church.
Does everyone remember when the california highway patrol stopped a man armed to the teeth on the highway? He was going to go kill everyone at the tides foundation. Guess who his favorite pundit was: glenn beck. Glenn beck had dedicated something like 10 of his shows to tides foundation and how they were destroying america in the span of a few months. Despite being a local left-leaning non-profit charity(local as in not national), glenn beck demonized them as the masterminds behind the downfall of america.
Don't even try and tell me that pundits don't have influence over the fringe elements of political groups.
On January 09 2011 05:11 BlackJack wrote: I can't wait for the Daily Show / Colbert Report on Monday. Probably the only 2 of the mainstream that have the guts to really call Palin out on this BS.
I doubt that. As much as a I loathe Palin and the rest of the far right in the US blaming this on them is extreme. Could be a Nazi, an anarchist, an anti-govt guy etc. Information is sketchy at best, and we should stop speculating.
Oh, and press conference coming up according to KOLD.
On January 09 2011 05:12 Ummbeefy wrote: I hope everything work out and she pulls through this tragic time without tainting her view on public exposure.
To all of you arguing gun control.
Fuck off.
A woman has been shot. This is a fucking human's body and life in peril and all you can think about is gun control? Are you are dense?
While obviously everyone on both sides of the gun control issue cares about this congresswoman's life, she was shot with a gun that was probably bought legally. Therefore, it's related to gun control. Whether or not there's a strong correlation between merely having guns and using them in a menacing manner is the controversy, but it is certainly going to flare up when random shootings like this occur, given the circumstances.
On January 09 2011 04:39 ket- wrote: How can Sarah Palin release a map with goddamn crosshairs and not get in trouble? That's really the one thing that bugs me with the US. Anywhere else (well, anywhere else decent) in the world you do that, your political career is absolutely over.
ye. This is why it happened. and exactly what the context was. Cause we're that intelligent
No, because some people with guns are that intelligent. It takes one misguided person with a gun. Not the average person thinking that this is what is called for. One person can ruin things for everyone else. Things like that map with crosshairs don't incite masses to go on bloody rampages. But they may just help nudge certain people to act instead of talk. I'm not saying Palin incited murder, but to say that a prominent public figure using crosshairs as a metaphor for her targets carries some influence.
no. they are irrelevant. Much like reading catcher in the rye made someone kill john lennon. A crosshair on a map of america does not make people go out and kill each other. no. please get some common sense.
Then I guess every citizen around the world who has ever supported a mass murdering tyrant was also just a complete bloody wretch because public figures don't have any influence over others with what they say. right?
Does no one remember the abortion doctor from kansas, tiller?
TILLER THE BABY KILLER! TILLER THE BABY KILLER! o'reilly had something like a dozen shows dedicated to TILLER THE BABY KILLER!!!!! finally someone, who watched o'reilly nightly and owned all of his books, shot the man while in church.
Does everyone remember when the california highway patrol stopped a man armed to the teeth on the highway? He was going to go kill everyone at the tides foundation. Guess who his favorite pundit was: glenn beck. Glenn beck had dedicated something like 10 of his shows to tides foundation and how they were destroying america in the span of a few months. Despite being a local left-leaning non-profit charity(local as in not national), glenn beck demonized them as the masterminds behind the downfall of america.
Don't even try and tell me that pundits don't have influence over the fringe elements of political groups.
Well i redact my statement. I was wrong. If there are people like you. then there are certianly those who are going to kill over a political poster cause it has a crosshair on it. MYBAD
On January 09 2011 05:11 BlackJack wrote: I can't wait for the Daily Show / Colbert Report on Monday. Probably the only 2 of the mainstream that have the guts to really call Palin out on this BS.
I doubt that. As much as a I loathe Palin and the rest of the far right in the US blaming this on them is extreme. Could be a Nazi, an anarchist, an anti-govt guy etc. Information is sketchy at best, and we should stop speculating.
Oh, and press conference coming up according to KOLD.
Wanna bet on it? No doubt they will bring up the crosshair map and how Sarah Palin suspiciously removed it from her website after the incident.
On January 09 2011 05:05 bITt.mAN wrote: Daymu, that's brutal.
In any case, guess that'll be the permanent end of "Congressman on Your Corner", what congressman would risk it after this?
Not just that, but even assuming this woman survives without some kind of permanent disabling injury, who's gonna want to step up to the plate and replace her after this?
If "getting shot" is going to be an occupational hazard of being a Democrat in certain states from now on, we're even more in trouble than I imagined.
My understanding of the word "politically correct" is starting to be clouded. I don't want to get into whether you should blame Palin or not, but at the same time, there are some things that are obvious things to not do.
On January 09 2011 04:39 ket- wrote: How can Sarah Palin release a map with goddamn crosshairs and not get in trouble? That's really the one thing that bugs me with the US. Anywhere else (well, anywhere else decent) in the world you do that, your political career is absolutely over.
ye. This is why it happened. and exactly what the context was. Cause we're that intelligent
No, because some people with guns are that intelligent. It takes one misguided person with a gun. Not the average person thinking that this is what is called for. One person can ruin things for everyone else. Things like that map with crosshairs don't incite masses to go on bloody rampages. But they may just help nudge certain people to act instead of talk. I'm not saying Palin incited murder, but to say that a prominent public figure using crosshairs as a metaphor for her targets carries some influence.
no. they are irrelevant. Much like reading catcher in the rye made someone kill john lennon. A crosshair on a map of america does not make people go out and kill each other. no. please get some common sense.
Then I guess every citizen around the world who has ever supported a mass murdering tyrant was also just a complete bloody wretch because public figures don't have any influence over others with what they say. right?
Does no one remember the abortion doctor from kansas, tiller?
TILLER THE BABY KILLER! TILLER THE BABY KILLER! o'reilly had something like a dozen shows dedicated to TILLER THE BABY KILLER!!!!! finally someone, who watched o'reilly nightly and owned all of his books, shot the man while in church.
Does everyone remember when the california highway patrol stopped a man armed to the teeth on the highway? He was going to go kill everyone at the tides foundation. Guess who his favorite pundit was: glenn beck. Glenn beck had dedicated something like 10 of his shows to tides foundation and how they were destroying america in the span of a few months. Despite being a local left-leaning non-profit charity(local as in not national), glenn beck demonized them as the masterminds behind the downfall of america.
Don't even try and tell me that pundits don't have influence over the fringe elements of political groups.
Yah but the tone was there. And it certainly needs to be addressed so that the tone of politics is made more respectful. This could be the militant far right.
On January 09 2011 05:11 BlackJack wrote: I can't wait for the Daily Show / Colbert Report on Monday. Probably the only 2 of the mainstream that have the guts to really call Palin out on this BS.
I doubt that. As much as a I loathe Palin and the rest of the far right in the US blaming this on them is extreme. Could be a Nazi, an anarchist, an anti-govt guy etc. Information is sketchy at best, and we should stop speculating.
Oh, and press conference coming up according to KOLD.
Wanna bet on it? No doubt they will bring up the crosshair map and how Sarah Palin suspiciously removed it from her website after the incident.
We can bet some e-Dollars But I doubt they will - they are too rational. They will comment on it, but I doubt they will blame anyone but the shooter and maybe co-conspirators.
Maybe in a week or so. Or if they shooter openly acknowledges doing this for Palin,
On January 09 2011 05:05 bITt.mAN wrote: Daymu, that's brutal.
In any case, guess that'll be the permanent end of "Congressman on Your Corner", what congressman would risk it after this?
Not just that, but even assuming this woman survives without some kind of permanent disabling injury, who's gonna want to step up to the plate and replace her after this?
If "getting shot" is going to be an occupational hazard of being a Democrat in certain states from now on, we're even more in trouble than I imagined.
I wouldn't be surprised if she wanted to resign, but I'd give her massive props if she stays defiant and serves for a long time in spite of this.
On January 09 2011 05:11 BlackJack wrote: I can't wait for the Daily Show / Colbert Report on Monday. Probably the only 2 of the mainstream that have the guts to really call Palin out on this BS.
I doubt that. As much as a I loathe Palin and the rest of the far right in the US blaming this on them is extreme. Could be a Nazi, an anarchist, an anti-govt guy etc. Information is sketchy at best, and we should stop speculating.
Oh, and press conference coming up according to KOLD.
Wanna bet on it? No doubt they will bring up the crosshair map and how Sarah Palin suspiciously removed it from her website after the incident.
We can bet some e-Dollars But I doubt they will - they are too rational. They will comment on it, but I doubt they will blame anyone but the shooter and maybe co-conspirators.
Maybe in a week or so. Or if they shooter openly acknowledges doing this for Palin,
I can easily see them calling out their use of crosshairs, as well as call to second amendment rights... they won't go as far as saying that it's completely their fault, and that they should be punished or put on trial or something, that's obviously ridiculous, but some of these radical ideas floating around from both sides of the fence need to be controlled. You can't just go around talking about using force, it's really really dangerous to play with fire, and that's exactly what some of these people are doing.
On January 09 2011 04:39 ket- wrote: How can Sarah Palin release a map with goddamn crosshairs and not get in trouble? That's really the one thing that bugs me with the US. Anywhere else (well, anywhere else decent) in the world you do that, your political career is absolutely over.
ye. This is why it happened. and exactly what the context was. Cause we're that intelligent
No, because some people with guns are that intelligent. It takes one misguided person with a gun. Not the average person thinking that this is what is called for. One person can ruin things for everyone else. Things like that map with crosshairs don't incite masses to go on bloody rampages. But they may just help nudge certain people to act instead of talk. I'm not saying Palin incited murder, but to say that a prominent public figure using crosshairs as a metaphor for her targets carries some influence.
no. they are irrelevant. Much like reading catcher in the rye made someone kill john lennon. A crosshair on a map of america does not make people go out and kill each other. no. please get some common sense.
Then I guess every citizen around the world who has ever supported a mass murdering tyrant was also just a complete bloody wretch because public figures don't have any influence over others with what they say. right?
Does no one remember the abortion doctor from kansas, tiller?
TILLER THE BABY KILLER! TILLER THE BABY KILLER! o'reilly had something like a dozen shows dedicated to TILLER THE BABY KILLER!!!!! finally someone, who watched o'reilly nightly and owned all of his books, shot the man while in church.
Does everyone remember when the california highway patrol stopped a man armed to the teeth on the highway? He was going to go kill everyone at the tides foundation. Guess who his favorite pundit was: glenn beck. Glenn beck had dedicated something like 10 of his shows to tides foundation and how they were destroying america in the span of a few months. Despite being a local left-leaning non-profit charity(local as in not national), glenn beck demonized them as the masterminds behind the downfall of america.
Don't even try and tell me that pundits don't have influence over the fringe elements of political groups.
Well i redact my statement. I was wrong. If there are people like you. then there are certianly those who are going to kill over a political poster cause it has a crosshair on it. MYBAD
I show you you're wrong and you act like a child. Thank you for your additions to this thread, they're much appreciated.
This morning, in an unspeakable tragedy, a number of Americans were shot in Tuscon, Arizona, at a constituent meeting with Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. And while we are continuing to receive information, we know that some have passed away, and that Representative Giffords is gravely wounded. We do not yet have all the answers. What we do know is that such a senseless and terrible act of violence has no place in a free society. I ask all Americans to join me and Michelle in keeping Representative Giffords, the victims of this tragedy, and their families in our prayers.
My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today's tragic shooting in Arizona. On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice.
On January 09 2011 05:25 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Sarah Palin just took down the map from her site but it's already been copied etc.
Its sad, shit like that wont even be talked about on the TV. Another (D) congressman from Arizona, whos name i didnt not get, said that politicians need to be more accountable for the things they say, and the way that they say it. Language used by politicians these days are extreme and can absolutely be interpreted as messages of violence
On January 09 2011 05:28 Jumperer wrote: Let's see how Glenn Beck react to this.
Remember when the woman fired shots at the military base because she said it was a FEMA concentration camp something of which Glenn Beck said was a reality, he blamed the media for blaming him.
On January 09 2011 05:25 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Sarah Palin just took down the map from her site but it's already been copied etc.
Its sad, shit like that wont even be talked about on the TV. Another (D) congressman from Arizona, whos name i didnt not get, said that politicians need to be more accountable for the things they say, and the way that they say it. Language used by politicians these days are extreme and can absolutely be interpreted as messages of violence
Yeah, unfortunately most of the public won't know about that graphic.
I live in her district and have met her multiple times. Giffords was a really kind person and it is a fucking shame some douche felt he had to do this. Her and plenty of other innocent people have been shot and if they live, their lives are foreever changed.
On January 09 2011 05:36 stork4ever wrote: tragic event happens.... blame palin, how is TL any different the Tea Party Movemet: tragic event happens....blame obama
No one here blamed Palin. We just posted some suspicious stuff from her site.
On January 09 2011 05:36 stork4ever wrote: tragic event happens.... blame palin, how is TL any different the Tea Party Movemet: tragic event happens....blame obama
Why does this even need to be explained.
tea party: [generic quip about obama not being american, foreigners ruining this country, democrats are commies, second amendment solution]
obama: [hope, change, we need to work together, generic political posturing]
This is why sarah palin et al are blamed for things like this
I thought his name sounded familiar. This was her opponent in the election, for some context.
edit: before FindingTroll responds, I'm not implying veterans want to kill congressmen or something, just what kind of campaign he ran on, which was very similar to the whole "don't retreat, reload" mantra of second amendment euphemisms.
Judge Roll in 2009, faced death threats after presiding over a $32 million civil-rights lawsuit. The lawsuit was filed by illegal immigrants against an Arizona rancher. After Judge Roll ruled the case would be certified, threats came from talk-radio shows which fueled controversy and spurred audiences into making threats against the judge[2]. The threats materialized after one show, Judge Roll's name logged more than 200 phone calls as some callers threatened the judge and his family[2]. This resulted in the judge and his wife were under a protection detail for one month as Judge Roll was given twenty four hours a day, seven days a week security by the US Marshals Service. An US Attorney's investigation ruled that four men were identified as threat makers, but no charges were filed[2]. In a July 9, 2009 interview with the Arizona Republic, Judge Roll described the time under high security as "unnerving and invasive. . . . By its nature it has to be," Roll said. Roll also said, "It (the security) was handled very professionally by the Marshals Service."[2] At the end of the month, Roll said four key men had been identified as threat makers[2].
One of the callers to the Service Employees International Union said, "I suggest you tell your people to calm down, act like American citizens, and stop trying to repress people's First Amendment rights... That, or you all are gonna come up against the Second Amendment."
On January 09 2011 03:48 aike wrote: I mean, if you are driving a car you are required to be carrying your drivers license the whole time, it's the same concept.
One step away from robocop...
I feel really bad when someone gets shot and ofc give my condolences, but surely it is the fire you play with when you let people have guns? I mean every society has morons and/or psycopaths in it regardless of what nation you use as an example - but allowing access to guns can only heighten this risk of something awful like this
We don't have enough information yet to make any definitive claims to what happened so we should avoid jumping to conclusions.
That being said given the violent nature of some of the right wing tea party rhetoric that mainstream, seemingly legitimate news sources like Fox News have been spouting it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. I hope this is a wake-up call for the GOP, they need to condemn and stop pandering to these lunatics.
On January 09 2011 05:53 Jumperer wrote: haha i found this comment from yahoo's news.
"This was an attack from a very right winged person though wrong to do this i belive in the cause of why this was done too many lefties want to take our freedoms away with there undercover scemes some one had to do something and they call him a terror threat, its the american way , if they are gov or any authority its aways an attack not an act of freedom. just the bs the liberal party wants us all to bow down and suck it"
I like how many times the word terrorism, militants and/or extremists popped up in the articles I've read about this incident. Just something odd I noticed.
On January 09 2011 05:57 proxY_ wrote: We don't have enough information yet to make any definitive claims to what happened so we should avoid jumping to conclusions.
That being said given the violent nature of some of the right wing tea party rhetoric that mainstream, seemingly legitimate news sources like Fox News have been spouting it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. I hope this is a wake-up call for the GOP, they need to condemn and stop pandering to these lunatics.
It's happened twice before, that I can remember off the top of my head. I mentioned them in a post earlier in the thread.
So given those two incidents, plus this, I doubt the tealiban will stop their rhetoric. Although, given that it's a member of congress this time, I may be wrong.
Haha, I'm reading the Reddit thread that is exploding right now :http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/eyjr9/democratic_congresswoman_gabrielle_giffords_and_5/ while I wait for SC2Reddit tourny to continue.
American politics is soo much more interesting than Australian politics
"Police arrest man near Thornydale and Magee Roads who is suspected of being connected to the shooting of Giffords and others. A third man is being sought."
police identified 4 men that were threatening the judge who was killed over a lawsuit he settled involving immigration. Perhaps she wasn't the main target?
On January 09 2011 06:03 RisingTide wrote: Jesus the bullet went through her brain and she's gonna make it?
Modern medicine/surgery is amazing.
That is what struck me most too....
How can you take a point-blank headshot and still survive - I am sure the damage will be immense, but the actuality of being alive after such a trauma is mind blowing and a huge credit to the emergency service response and healthcare.
The doctor just spoke on the CNN livestream, the child died And he is optimistic about her survival. The bullet went through and through and she was able to understand and follow commands.
On January 09 2011 06:03 RisingTide wrote: Jesus the bullet went through her brain and she's gonna make it?
Modern medicine/surgery is amazing.
Child dead though. Tragic.
As amazing as it is, she may be ok but the amount of brain damage that might come out of it might just leave her crippled for life, imo that is a fate worse than death to live like that.
On a slightly upbeat note, someone coined it pretty well in that Reddit Thread with "Fucking teahadis."
On January 09 2011 06:02 Dommk wrote: Haha, I'm reading the Reddit thread that is exploding right now :http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/eyjr9/democratic_congresswoman_gabrielle_giffords_and_5/ while I wait for SC2Reddit tourny to continue.
American politics is soo much more interesting than Australian politics
Someone there used the phrase "teahadis". Made my entire day.
On January 09 2011 06:09 Faranth wrote: Yeah... the sad part is that even if she survives, taking a bullet straight through the brain no matter where it is will have crippling and permanently debilitating effects.
I don't believe you, as I've seen multiple t.v. programs that have talked about people having full recovery from head shot wounds.
I actually don't know what Arizona's carry laws are involving public gatherings. Its not unreasonable to say someone could have put him down earlier instead of waiting for him to run away before tackling him. Of course, I really wouldn't expect a bunch of Democrats to have a carrier among them either.
Apparently Federal Judge John Roll started receiving death threats shortly after "he after he ruled in favor of undocumented immigrants in a major civil rights lawsuit in 2009."
18 injured and 5 killed? This guy has some seriously good accuracy. Or maybe it was just that the people in the crowd that carried can't aim worth a damn and hit bystanders on accident.
That guy has read books where the Government controls everyone thoughts and freedom (Orwell) and I guess he just believes it's the same in our society. That being said he is really crasy
"It is with the deepest sadness that we have received word of the attack on Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, members of her staff, and her constituents. This terrible act of violence is a national tragedy, and today is a very sad day for our country. "My prayers, and the prayers of all Members of Congress, go out to her husband, Captain Mark Kelly, their family, and to all of the staff and others who were victims of this horrible attack. "Congresswoman Giffords is a brilliant and courageous Member of Congress, bringing to Washington the views of a new generation of national leaders. It is especially tragic that she was attacked as she was meeting with her constituents whom she serves with such dedication and distinction."
Mitch McConnell
“This senseless attack today in Tucson is a national tragedy, and all America mourns those who lost their lives in the very act of public service. I join the entire Congress in condemning this horrifying act of violence, and on behalf of the entire Senate family, Elaine and I extend our deepest expressions of sympathy and heartfelt prayers to Rep. Giffords and the families of those who have been killed or injured. The U.S. Capitol Police are joining local, state and federal officials in this investigation. We appreciate their quick response and stand ready to assist in their efforts."
John McCain
“I am horrified by the violent attack on Representative Gabrielle Giffords and many other innocent people by a wicked person who has no sense of justice or compassion. I pray for Gabby and the other victims, and for the repose of the souls of the dead and comfort for their families. I beg our loving Creator to spare the lives of those who are still alive, heal them in body and spirit, and return them to their loved ones. “Whoever did this; whatever their reason, they are a disgrace to Arizona, this country and the human race, and they deserve and will receive the contempt of all decent people and the strongest punishment of the law.”
Ok so my main question is why wasn't there a policeman there? When a congressman visited my High School in upstate New York there was an extra policeman there that day. Meanwhile this is a public meeting in the wide open and the congresswoman was almost hated by the local population.
"Fraud If I'm not receiving the purchase from a payment then I'm a victim of fraud. I'm not receiving the purchase from a payment. Therefore, I'm a victim of fraud.
All purchases for an educational course in The United States as of now are unconstitutional in the United States of America because of Section 10 in the United States of America's Constitution. A student paying for a Pima Community College course is a purchase for an educational course in the United States as of now. Therefore, a student paying for a Pima Community College course is unconstitutional in the United States of America because of Section 10 in the United States of America's Constitution.
If you're receiving a grade from Pima Community College class then the grade you're receiving is unconstitutional because of the United States Bill of Rights. You're receiving a grade from Pima Community College class. Therefore, the grade you're receiving is unconstitutional because of the United States Bill of Rights. The grading you purchase from Pima Community College is unconstitutional at tuition.
The United States Department of Education is allowing unconstitutional education facility's to operate or the United States Department of Education is allowing free constitutional education facility's to operate. The United States Department of Education isn't allowing unconstitutional education facility's to operate. Thus, the United States Department of Education is allowing free constitutional education facility's to operate.
If the police remove you from the educational facility for talking then removing you from the educational facility for talking is unconstitutional in the United States. The police remove you from the educational facility for talking. Thus, removing you from the educational facility for talking is unconstitutional in the United States. This situation is fraud because the police are unconstitutional!
Every police officer in the United States as of now is unconstitutionally working. Pima Community College police are police in the United States. Therefore, Pima Community College police are unconstitutionally working. The police are unconstitutionally working!
All United States of America's college programs are unconstitutional colleges that's in accordance with the United States of America's Constitution. Pima Community College is a United States of America's college program. Hence, Pima Community College is an unconstitutional college that's in accordance with the United States of America's Constitution.
Every Pima Community College class is using free sources for education from the internet. Algebra is a Pima Community College class. Thus, Algebra is a free source for education from the internet. Every Pima Community College class is always a scam!
If you're literate in English grammar then you know English grammar. You don't know English grammar. Thus, you're not literate in English grammar. Most of the teachers and students at Pima Community College are illiterate.
If I'm thinking of adding the 1 new symbol and number to the current alphabet and number system then I'm thinking of creating 1 new symbol and number to the current alphabet and number system. I'm thinking of adding the 1 new symbol and number to the current alphabet and number system. Thus, I'm thinking of creating 1 new symbol and number to the current alphabet and number system. You control the grammar!
Don't be scared to know you can't find the location of a subject: Most students can't locate a subject! Most people know all the subjects are for mind control and brainwash! The students are unconstitutionally paying for free education! The students are attending a torture facility! You know the teachers are con artists?
You now know - every college's unconstitutional crime! You shouldn't pay unconstitutional money for free speech! Don't trust the current government, listener!"
I still feel like we are missing some details. Was there no struggle as the guy put a gun to each persons head? How can people stand around as he executes a child? Why was security not there? I feel like anytime a political figure goes out in public they should have security.
On January 09 2011 06:49 zerglingsfolife wrote: I still feel like we are missing some details. Was there no struggle as the guy put a gun to each persons head? How can people stand around as he executes a child? Why was security not there? I feel like anytime a political figure goes out in public they should have security.
Crazy.
He didn't shoot everyone deliberately in the head. It seems like he fired somewhat indiscriminately into the crowd before anyone was really able to respond.
On January 09 2011 06:49 zerglingsfolife wrote: I still feel like we are missing some details. Was there no struggle as the guy put a gun to each persons head? How can people stand around as he executes a child? Why was security not there? I feel like anytime a political figure goes out in public they should have security.
Crazy.
The Democrat, who was re-elected to her third term in November, was hosting her first "Congress on Your Corner" event at the Safeway in northwest Tucson when a gunman ran up and started shooting, according to Peter Michaels, news director of Arizona Public Media.
At least five other people, including members of her staff, were hurt. Giffords was transported to University Medical Center in Tucson. Her condition was not immediately known.
Giffords was talking to a couple when the man ran up firing indiscriminately, and then ran off, Michaels said. According to other witnesses, he was tackled by a bystander and taken into custody.
On January 09 2011 06:49 zerglingsfolife wrote: I still feel like we are missing some details. Was there no struggle as the guy put a gun to each persons head? How can people stand around as he executes a child? Why was security not there? I feel like anytime a political figure goes out in public they should have security.
Crazy.
He didn't shoot everyone deliberately in the head. It seems like he fired somewhat indiscriminately into the crowd before anyone was really able to respond.
Ahh, maybe you're right. The guy on Fox was saying he put a gun to each persons head.
Mamta Popat/Arizona Daily Star Jackie Storrer, right, tries her best to figure out the clues on a giant crossword as Jared Loughner, a volunteer, stands in the background during the Tucson Festival of Books.
On January 09 2011 06:49 zerglingsfolife wrote: I still feel like we are missing some details. Was there no struggle as the guy put a gun to each persons head? How can people stand around as he executes a child? Why was security not there? I feel like anytime a political figure goes out in public they should have security.
Crazy.
Lack of security is probably a major issue we'll hear about soon.
But as for the lack of reaction, scratch it up to panic. If the shooter quietly walks up to the congresswoman, take the first shot, then turns to the crowd and begins to spray bullets. Most people instinctively run and duck for cover. They're not going to jump up and try to stop the person with the gun. It's not people idly stand around while a child gets shot. They don't also want to be shot in the process of stopping him.
edit: and yeah, it seems he was quickly tackled down after people saw he was out of bullets.
On January 09 2011 06:49 zerglingsfolife wrote: I still feel like we are missing some details. Was there no struggle as the guy put a gun to each persons head? How can people stand around as he executes a child? Why was security not there? I feel like anytime a political figure goes out in public they should have security.
Crazy.
He didn't shoot everyone deliberately in the head. It seems like he fired somewhat indiscriminately into the crowd before anyone was really able to respond.
Ahh, maybe you're right. The guy on Fox was saying he put a gun to each persons head.
I'm Not going to make a comment on the reliability of fox news here.
Still I totally agree that there should have been security there.
if that youtube channel is his... those are the ravings of a madman
i am sorry i feel the need to make this comment, but there really is no better place to start.. current gun control very definitely contributed to this, a crazy person just cannot easily get guns in a country where owning guns is illegal even criminals dont just hand guns to insane people extremists sure, but not actually insane people
On January 09 2011 06:49 zerglingsfolife wrote: I still feel like we are missing some details. Was there no struggle as the guy put a gun to each persons head? How can people stand around as he executes a child? Why was security not there? I feel like anytime a political figure goes out in public they should have security.
Crazy.
Lack of security is probably a major issue we'll hear about soon.
But as for the lack of reaction, scratch it up to panic. If the shooter quietly walks up to the congresswoman, take the first shot, then turns to the crowd and begins to spray bullets. Most people instinctively run and duck for cover. They're not going to jump up and try to stop the person with the gun. It's not people idly stand around while a child gets shot. They don't also want to be shot in the process of stopping him.
Yeah, that sounds reasonable. The security issue is just surprising to me considering my high school had metal detectors/security everyday.
Mamta Popat/Arizona Daily Star Jackie Storrer, right, tries her best to figure out the clues on a giant crossword as Jared Loughner, a volunteer, stands in the background during the Tucson Festival of Books.
Because he's a white Tucson male in his 20s??? Please think before you post something like this or explain yourself immediately.
On January 09 2011 06:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Shooter?
Tucson Festival of Books
Mamta Popat/Arizona Daily Star Jackie Storrer, right, tries her best to figure out the clues on a giant crossword as Jared Loughner, a volunteer, stands in the background during the Tucson Festival of Books.
Because he's a white male in his 20s??? Please think before you post something like this or explain yourself immediately.
Man I feel literally dirty. Sure go ahead and dispute politics all you want, but you are no hero killing innocent people.
Whatever man, just ridiculous... I hope to god this guy gets what we deem "cruel and unusual punishment" to be illegal. It should be permitted in his case.
You can't really plan for this stuff. You can't plan for a madman to attack anyone at any place at any time. As far as I can tell, there was no perception of threat towards the congresswoman prior to this attack. And if I were the victim under the same circumstances, I wouldn't have asked for protection, in fact I would have rather not had it, as a wall of beefeaters wouldn't really signal "face to face" with her voters. She just happened to be targeted (if indeed she was the main target of this attack) by a crazie.
On January 09 2011 06:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Shooter?
Tucson Festival of Books
Mamta Popat/Arizona Daily Star Jackie Storrer, right, tries her best to figure out the clues on a giant crossword as Jared Loughner, a volunteer, stands in the background during the Tucson Festival of Books.
Because he's a white male in his 20s??? Please think before you post something like this or explain yourself immediately.
Look at the name also notice the "?"
Also from Tucson, just like the youtube page. And you can tell from his youtube page he liked books a lot, and in the picture he is at a book festival. Still we should be careful before jumping to conclusions
Mamta Popat/Arizona Daily Star Jackie Storrer, right, tries her best to figure out the clues on a giant crossword as Jared Loughner, a volunteer, stands in the background during the Tucson Festival of Books.
Because he's a white Tucson male in his 20s??? Please think before you post something like this or explain yourself immediately.
How about you read the thread before you post. That guy shares the shooters name, and apparently the shooters love of words and grammar.
On January 09 2011 06:49 zerglingsfolife wrote: I still feel like we are missing some details. Was there no struggle as the guy put a gun to each persons head? How can people stand around as he executes a child? Why was security not there? I feel like anytime a political figure goes out in public they should have security.
Crazy.
Lack of security is probably a major issue we'll hear about soon.
But as for the lack of reaction, scratch it up to panic. If the shooter quietly walks up to the congresswoman, take the first shot, then turns to the crowd and begins to spray bullets. Most people instinctively run and duck for cover. They're not going to jump up and try to stop the person with the gun. It's not people idly stand around while a child gets shot. They don't also want to be shot in the process of stopping him.
Yeah, that sounds reasonable. The security issue is just surprising to me considering my high school had metal detectors/security everyday.
I wouldn't be surprised if the congresswoman's lack of security was due to her desire to try and connect with her constituents. Walking around at a rally with a protective detail gives the feeling that she's very distant, etc.
In retrospect, all political figures, especially those who have received death threats, should always have heightened security.
Mamta Popat/Arizona Daily Star Jackie Storrer, right, tries her best to figure out the clues on a giant crossword as Jared Loughner, a volunteer, stands in the background during the Tucson Festival of Books.
Because he's a white Tucson male in his 20s??? Please think before you post something like this or explain yourself immediately.
Don't jump on StealthBlue. He's been doing a great job checking up real time news and googling information pertaining to this tragedy for the thread. He didn't blindly assume the photo was accurate.
I've looked at the top stories on google news but the only one mentioning "Jared Loughner" is from the Huffington Post. Let's chill before we start posting pics of the guy maybe.
On January 09 2011 07:15 gogogadgetflow wrote: I've looked at the top stories on google news but the only one mentioning "Jared Loughner" is from the Huffington Post. Let's chill before we start posting pics of the guy maybe.
the huffingtonpost is aggregating news from AP and local stations. they are accurate in their reporting.
On January 09 2011 07:15 gogogadgetflow wrote: I've looked at the top stories on google news but the only one mentioning "Jared Loughner" is from the Huffington Post. Let's chill before we start posting pics of the guy maybe.
On January 09 2011 07:01 Osmoses wrote: As far as I can tell, there was no perception of threat towards the congresswoman prior to this attack. And if I were the victim under the same circumstances, I wouldn't have asked for protection, in fact I would have rather not had it, as a wall of beefeaters wouldn't really signal "face to face" with her voters. She just happened to be targeted (if indeed she was the main target of this attack) by a crazie.
This is 150% incorrect. As a matter of fact, the congresswoman recently won reelection in a very close campain against a tea party candidate. Her office was one of three democratic congresspeople's to get vandalized after the health care votes, and she was targeted with a CROSSHAIR by sarah palin herself.
Apparently shes been getting death threats for a awhile... looks like a lunatic tea partier snapped. Thats what you get when you start using violent rhetoric in a public forum: some idiot takes you seriously. Especially when the people we're talking about are crazed second amendment wingnuts.
I would advise you guys not to read the comments on yahoo news. A lot of them are actually quite sick and demented. There are so many sick people in the world.
Profile Name:Jared Lee LoughnerChannel Views:271Joined:October 25, 2010Website:http://Myspace.com/fallenasleepAbout Me: My name is Jared Lee Loughner! Hometown:TucsonCountry:United StatesSchools:I attended school: Thornydale elementary,Tortolita Middle School, Mountain View Highschool, Northwest Aztec Middle College, and Pima Community College.Interests:My favorite interest was reading, and I studied grammar. Conscience dreams were a great study in college!Movies*My idiom: I could coin the moment!*)Musicass me the strings!
Books:I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Alleged Shooter Jared Loughner May Have Met Rep. Giffords Previously Glynnis MacNicol | Jan. 8, 2011, 4:43 PM | 278 | 1
A woman named Caitie Parker has been tweeting that she went to school with Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' alleged shooter Jared Loughner and that he had met Giffords previously.
Also," he was a pot head & into rock like Hendrix,The Doors, Anti-Flag. I haven't seen him in person since '07 in a sign language class" and "As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy."
On January 09 2011 06:43 NoobieOne wrote: Ok so my main question is why wasn't there a policeman there? When a congressman visited my High School in upstate New York there was an extra policeman there that day. Meanwhile this is a public meeting in the wide open and the congresswoman was almost hated by the local population.
She wasn't and never has been hated by the "local population". She was hated by a fringe group of ignorant extremists.
Please be more careful with your words.
We're talking about Arizona. There's nothing fringe about Tea Party radicals in Arizona.
Shephard Smith reported that a second man had been arrested in connection with the shooting. I can't find that being reported by any organization more credible though. :/
In one afternoon, Roll logged more than 200 phone calls. Callers threatened the judge and his family. They posted personal information about Roll online.
"They said, 'We should kill him. He should be dead,' " Gonzales said.
Both Roll and his wife were given a U.S. Marshals Service protection detail at the time. Roll called the month-long protection experience "unnerving and invasive." According to Arizona Central, authorities identified four men believed to be responsible for the threats, but Roll declined to press charges at the recommendation of the Marshals Service.
Looks to be a far-left psycho and not a tea partier.
Thats really interesting.. I'm a psychology minor and while I am nowhere near completed with my degree, I can tell you that the youtube video I just watched has some pretty obvious signs of schizophrenia. The way he constructs his sentences reminds me a lot of a video we watched of a lady with that disorder.
The far left means communist. Why would a communist kill a liberal democrat who supports universal healthcare?
The woman and article mention the fact he smoked pot and liked rock which means that it feels these two things are relevant. Ill need more than a bigot and a small internet blog to believe this.
On January 09 2011 07:36 Tralan wrote: The far left means communist. Why would a communist kill a liberal democrat who supports universal healthcare?
The woman and article mention the fact he smoked pot and liked rock which means that it feels these two things are relevant. Ill need more than a bigot and a small internet blog to believe this.
Maybe because he felt she wasn't far enough to the left? Too early too tell. Just like it's too early to just assume he's a right-wing psycho because of something Palin did months ago. But I suppose it's easier to make the baseless claim that he's a "Tea Party psycho" and take your medicine from "objective" news sources like the Huffington Post, right? Good joke.
On January 09 2011 07:36 Tralan wrote: The far left means communist. Why would a communist kill a liberal democrat who supports universal healthcare?
The woman and article mention the fact he smoked pot and liked rock which means that it feels these two things are relevant. Ill need more than a bigot and a small internet blog to believe this.
Maybe because he felt she wasn't far enough to the left? Too early too tell. Just like it's too early to just assume he's a right-wing psycho because of something Palin did months ago. But I suppose it's easier to make the baseless claim that he's a "Tea Party psycho" and take your medicine from "objective" news sources like the Huffington Post, right? Good joke.
On January 09 2011 07:36 Tralan wrote: The far left means communist. Why would a communist kill a liberal democrat who supports universal healthcare?
The woman and article mention the fact he smoked pot and liked rock which means that it feels these two things are relevant. Ill need more than a bigot and a small internet blog to believe this.
Maybe because he felt she wasn't far enough to the left? Too early too tell. Just like it's too early to just assume he's a right-wing psycho because of something Palin did months ago. But I suppose it's easier to make the baseless claim that he's a "Tea Party psycho" and take your medicine from "objective" news sources like the Huffington Post, right? Good joke.
On January 09 2011 07:36 Tralan wrote: The far left means communist. Why would a communist kill a liberal democrat who supports universal healthcare?
The woman and article mention the fact he smoked pot and liked rock which means that it feels these two things are relevant. Ill need more than a bigot and a small internet blog to believe this.
Maybe because he felt she wasn't far enough to the left? Too early too tell. Just like it's too early to just assume he's a right-wing psycho because of something Palin did months ago. But I suppose it's easier to make the baseless claim that he's a "Tea Party psycho" and take your medicine from "objective" news sources like the Huffington Post, right? Good joke.
Look at his videos. He is insane. Completely nuts. Something in his head is broken. Left, right or motives dont have a meaning.
On January 09 2011 07:36 Tralan wrote: The far left means communist. Why would a communist kill a liberal democrat who supports universal healthcare?
The woman and article mention the fact he smoked pot and liked rock which means that it feels these two things are relevant. Ill need more than a bigot and a small internet blog to believe this.
Maybe because he felt she wasn't far enough to the left? Too early too tell. Just like it's too early to just assume he's a right-wing psycho because of something Palin did months ago. But I suppose it's easier to make the baseless claim that he's a "Tea Party psycho" and take your medicine from "objective" news sources like the Huffington Post, right? Good joke.
Look at his videos. He is insane. Completely nuts. Something in his head is broken. Left, right or motives dont have a meaning.
Not disagreeing with you there. I was directing my comments at the people who started screaming, "Tea Party guy!" when there is nothing to indicate that he's anything of the sort.
On January 09 2011 07:36 Tralan wrote: The far left means communist. Why would a communist kill a liberal democrat who supports universal healthcare?
The woman and article mention the fact he smoked pot and liked rock which means that it feels these two things are relevant. Ill need more than a bigot and a small internet blog to believe this.
Maybe because he felt she wasn't far enough to the left? Too early too tell. Just like it's too early to just assume he's a right-wing psycho because of something Palin did months ago. But I suppose it's easier to make the baseless claim that he's a "Tea Party psycho" and take your medicine from "objective" news sources like the Huffington Post, right? Good joke.
Except that from the Youtube video, he hates fiat currency, people that don't speak English properly and is paranoid of the government spying on him.
Two of those are characteristics of the Tea Party/internet libertarian movement.
Looks to be a far-left psycho and not a tea partier.
Thats really interesting.. I'm a psychology minor and while I am nowhere near completed with my degree, I can tell you that the youtube video I just watched has some pretty obvious signs of schizophrenia. The way he constructs his sentences reminds me a lot of a video we watched of a lady with that disorder.
I went to high school, college, & was in a band with the gunman. This tragedy has just turned to horrific.43 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone in reply to antderosa
This left wing girl, as confirmed by Myspace, clearly knew he was a left wing devotee
this has nothing to do with politics, left or right (btw i see there's some confusion when a guy shows up as far left on economy policies and tea party on everything else, this is possible, just look at stalin, or better yet go to politicalcompass)
just a sad mess in that guy's head, he just happened to vent his insanity on a public venue instead of in the comfort of his on mind...
On January 09 2011 07:55 Taguchi wrote: this has nothing to do with politics, left or right (btw i see there's some confusion when a guy shows up as far left on economy policies and tea party on everything else, this is possible, just look at stalin, or better yet go to politicalcompass)
just a sad mess in that guy's head, he just happened to vent his insanity on a public venue instead of in the comfort of his on mind...
but.. but this was such a great opportunity for the teenage leftist internet community to slander the tea party movement some more. don't go say stuff like that, man.
Looks to be a far-left psycho and not a tea partier.
Thats really interesting.. I'm a psychology minor and while I am nowhere near completed with my degree, I can tell you that the youtube video I just watched has some pretty obvious signs of schizophrenia. The way he constructs his sentences reminds me a lot of a video we watched of a lady with that disorder.
Probably was, since he smoked pot.
Except that schizophrenia and pot use have almost no correlation... there are thousands of people who smoke pot every day that don't have schizophrenia.
Honestly, The tea party doesn't really need to be slandered. Have you heard of their positions?
But back to point, Jibba was spot on. Sounds more Tea party libertarian than dirty hippy commie. Also, there might be a connection with the violence regarding her healthcare vote.
As stated earlier, I can't wait to see what Stewart and Colbert have to say.
Looks to be a far-left psycho and not a tea partier.
Thats really interesting.. I'm a psychology minor and while I am nowhere near completed with my degree, I can tell you that the youtube video I just watched has some pretty obvious signs of schizophrenia. The way he constructs his sentences reminds me a lot of a video we watched of a lady with that disorder.
Just read about it when I came home. German media indirectly suggests that the gunman must have been a tea-partier. Since they do not have any facts to base there suggestions on, it shows me how deeply separated and prejudiced we already are. I must admit that my first thought reading the headline was the same but when I checked for any evidence I reminded myself not to judgmental so fast. I guess we could all use a little less prejudice here.
Loughner...... Confirmed Leftist by Friend on Twitter Twitter ^ | 1-9-11 | Caitie Parker
Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 5:05:00 PM by blasater1960
caitieparker Caitie Parker @ @lakarune I haven't seen him since '07. Then, he was left wing.
caitieparker Caitie Parker @ @antderosa As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy.
(Excerpt) Read more at twitter.com ...
Looks to be a far-left psycho and not a tea partier.
So can we stop with the mindless republican bashing, assuming that he was some sort of right wing psycho.
Maybe next time you guys can wait for the facts to come out before you blame someone. On that note their is absolutely zero information pointing towards palin, im not a huge fan either but making some murder conspiracy theory based off a picture is pretty laughable.
On January 09 2011 07:58 tnkted wrote: Except that schizophrenia and pot use have almost no correlation... there are thousands of people who smoke pot every day that don't have schizophrenia.
Other way around.
He is schizophrenic, and happened to enjoy pot. There is a correlation that Schizophrenics often smoke pot.
On January 09 2011 08:07 Electric.Jesus wrote: Just read about it when I came home. German media indirectly suggests that the gunman must have been a tea-partier. Since they do not have any facts to base there suggestions on, it shows me how deeply separated and prejudiced we already are. I must admit that my first thought reading the headline was the same but when I checked for any evidence I reminded myself not to judgmental so fast. I guess we could all use a little less prejudice here.
It's one thing to read a headline and think "Oh it was the Tea Party." It's another to state/hint that it's the Tea Party in a fucking news article. If you're writing a news article, you really need to make sure it's correct when you say shit like that, otherwise you should be fired for being a shit news writer.
Loughner...... Confirmed Leftist by Friend on Twitter Twitter ^ | 1-9-11 | Caitie Parker
Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 5:05:00 PM by blasater1960
caitieparker Caitie Parker @ @lakarune I haven't seen him since '07. Then, he was left wing.
caitieparker Caitie Parker @ @antderosa As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy.
(Excerpt) Read more at twitter.com ...
Looks to be a far-left psycho and not a tea partier.
So can we stop with the mindless republican bashing, assuming that he was some sort of right wing psycho.
Maybe next time you guys can wait for the facts to come out before you blame someone. On that note their is absolutely zero information pointing towards palin, im not a huge fan either but making some murder conspiracy theory based off a picture is pretty laughable.
The issue is that Palin and others have lowered the level of political discourse in this country to a sad state of zealotry based on empty rhetoric and easy to understand catch phrases. Of that, there is no doubt that she is guilty.
People are trying to ignore the fact that her Tea Party opponent had a campaign event with an M14 and "target practice" against Rep. Gifford, or that Tea Party candidate Sharon Angle said, "if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies."
What does that imply to you? Stop tossing around a "bad apple" argument. The movement is founded on misinformation and it portrays the current state of affairs in an extreme manner, in order to convince people that the world is a black and white place and that things should be done for the sake of good.
Why would it matter what political affiliation he had? As far as I know, no party is going to endorse his actions. Why can't we just accept that he was a pyscho, because he just shot 5 innocent people.
Loughner...... Confirmed Leftist by Friend on Twitter Twitter ^ | 1-9-11 | Caitie Parker
Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 5:05:00 PM by blasater1960
caitieparker Caitie Parker @ @lakarune I haven't seen him since '07. Then, he was left wing.
caitieparker Caitie Parker @ @antderosa As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy.
(Excerpt) Read more at twitter.com ...
Looks to be a far-left psycho and not a tea partier.
So can we stop with the mindless republican bashing, assuming that he was some sort of right wing psycho.
Maybe next time you guys can wait for the facts to come out before you blame someone. On that note their is absolutely zero information pointing towards palin, im not a huge fan either but making some murder conspiracy theory based off a picture is pretty laughable.
Still, it doesn't change the fact that the crosshair map she posted was an incredibly stupid thing to do, and no matter who the person was who perpetrated this, I hope that everyone can see that the kind of us-against-them, second-amendment-solution, socialist-fascist-muslim rhetoric has no place in American political discourse and should stop.
And after the crazy guy flew a small plane into the IRS building in Texas last year, I think people can be forgiven for jumping to conclusions.
On January 09 2011 08:14 toadstool wrote: Why would it matter what political affiliation he had? As far as I know, no party is going to endorse his actions. Why can't we just accept that he was a pyscho, because he just shot 5 innocent people.
I think we can be glad he's not a muslim, or from some small country tbh :/
Loughner...... Confirmed Leftist by Friend on Twitter Twitter ^ | 1-9-11 | Caitie Parker
Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 5:05:00 PM by blasater1960
caitieparker Caitie Parker @ @lakarune I haven't seen him since '07. Then, he was left wing.
caitieparker Caitie Parker @ @antderosa As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy.
(Excerpt) Read more at twitter.com ...
Looks to be a far-left psycho and not a tea partier.
So can we stop with the mindless republican bashing, assuming that he was some sort of right wing psycho.
Maybe next time you guys can wait for the facts to come out before you blame someone. On that note their is absolutely zero information pointing towards palin, im not a huge fan either but making some murder conspiracy theory based off a picture is pretty laughable.
The issue is that Palin and others have lowered the level of political discourse in this country to a sad state of zealotry based on empty rhetoric and easy to understand catch phrases. Of that, there is no doubt that she is guilty.
I wont argue that, but i still believe people are putting to much into this crosshairs picture, its was an unfortunate coincidence if anything.
On January 09 2011 07:36 Tralan wrote: The far left means communist. Why would a communist kill a liberal democrat who supports universal healthcare?
The woman and article mention the fact he smoked pot and liked rock which means that it feels these two things are relevant. Ill need more than a bigot and a small internet blog to believe this.
Maybe because he felt she wasn't far enough to the left? Too early too tell. Just like it's too early to just assume he's a right-wing psycho because of something Palin did months ago. But I suppose it's easier to make the baseless claim that he's a "Tea Party psycho" and take your medicine from "objective" news sources like the Huffington Post, right? Good joke.
Look at his videos. He is insane. Completely nuts. Something in his head is broken. Left, right or motives dont have a meaning.
Not disagreeing with you there. I was directing my comments at the people who started screaming, "Tea Party guy!" when there is nothing to indicate that he's anything of the sort.
the tea party is the political movement in this country that most often talks about violence, civil war, taking back the country by force
these "assumptions" are not coming out of thin air
Just watched a Fox noise report. I like how they latched on to the fact that Loughner didn't like the Bible being handed out at recruit processing centers. WTF has that to do with anything? Well I saw that coming a mile away when I saw his youtube videos.
Here is a list of his favorite books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Sorry guys, just like the guy who flew the plane into a IRS building, surprise it's someone from the far left. But just remember, the left is peaceful, no matter how many people they kill.
On January 09 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: Except that from the Youtube video, he hates fiat currency, people that don't speak English properly and is paranoid of the government spying on him.
Two of those are characteristics of the Tea Party/internet libertarian movement.
And one of those characteristics is one of the KKK, a democrat party creation. He also hates government, something only anarchists hate (remember, anarchists want to move from anarchy to an oligarchy, and historically all oligarchies are controlled by lefists).
On January 09 2011 08:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Here is a list of his favorite books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Sorry guys, just like the guy who flew the plane into a IRS building, surprise it's someone from the far left. But just remember, the left is peaceful, no matter how many people they kill.
What does his list of favorite books have to do with anything? There's no way to judge any sort of affiliation based on that book list. Whether someone loathes fiat currency? Yes.
On January 09 2011 08:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Here is a list of his favorite books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Sorry guys, just like the guy who flew the plane into a IRS building, surprise it's someone from the far left. But just remember, the left is peaceful, no matter how many people they kill.
I dont think political affiliation can be taken seriously when he was obviously out of his mind to begin with.
conservative (republican) limited fiscal policy, more restrictive social libertarian limited fiscal and social liberal more government programs, limited social intervention socialist more programs and more restrictions
as you can see a true communist would agree with both parties on some things ... just as a libertarian would.
and a crazy person cant possibly have a rational political outlook... he could call himself a communist and vote for palin without ever seeing the contradiction.
On January 09 2011 08:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Here is a list of his favorite books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Sorry guys, just like the guy who flew the plane into a IRS building, surprise it's someone from the far left. But just remember, the left is peaceful, no matter how many people they kill.
Mein Kamf is an extreme right wing book and Animal Farm attacks communism. It looks like he just was into books that showed all governments as bogeymen or better yet that he miss trusted authority.
On January 09 2011 08:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Here is a list of his favorite books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Sorry guys, just like the guy who flew the plane into a IRS building, surprise it's someone from the far left. But just remember, the left is peaceful, no matter how many people they kill.
On January 09 2011 07:44 Jibba wrote: Except that from the Youtube video, he hates fiat currency, people that don't speak English properly and is paranoid of the government spying on him.
Two of those are characteristics of the Tea Party/internet libertarian movement.
And one of those characteristics is one of the KKK, a democrat party creation. He also hates government, something only anarchists hate (remember, anarchists want to move from anarchy to an oligarchy, and historically all oligarchies are controlled by lefists).
yeah okay good luck with that
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40978517/ns/politics/ "Rhee described Giffords' wound as 'through-and-through ... It went through her brain.'" Wow. Medicine these days. I wonder if it's possible for her to come through without major brain damage.
Liberal Website Daily Kos put a bullseye on Gifford during a poliical race. Blog possibly by the gunman said Giffords is dead to me for voting against Pelosi.
I don't think you can easily cram this guy into any established political ideology, but I guess that doesn't stop people from trying to use anything for political gain.
On January 09 2011 08:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Here is a list of his favorite books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Sorry guys, just like the guy who flew the plane into a IRS building, surprise it's someone from the far left. But just remember, the left is peaceful, no matter how many people they kill.
What does his list of favorite books have to do with anything? There's no way to judge any sort of affiliation based on that book list. Whether someone loathes fiat currency? Yes.
I guessed you missed some of the important books, let me highlight them for you.
The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, We The Living. Tea partiers just looooooooooove Hitler, Stalin, Mousilini and Mao.
Ya, living in Phoenix, and having been to Tucson within the past week, this strikes me as pretty insane. A federal judge was also killed on the spot. It's depressing that a member of congress trying to move forward and allow for her constituents to talk with her, ends up getting ruined by a crazed 22 year old. Doctors say they're optimistic for her full recovery however.
On January 09 2011 08:10 Ferrose wrote: It's one thing to read a headline and think "Oh it was the Tea Party." It's another to state/hint that it's the Tea Party in a fucking news article. If you're writing a news article, you really need to make sure it's correct when you say shit like that, otherwise you should be fired for being a shit news writer.
They did not do it in the article itself. They were much smarter than that. You clkick the article and on the left there is a list if "related topics" that was full of links to reports about the tea party.
On January 09 2011 08:18 Jswizzy wrote: Just watched a Fox noise report. I like how they latched on to the fact that Loughner didn't like the Bible being handed out at recruit processing centers. WTF has that to do with anything? Well I saw that coming a mile away when I saw his youtube videos.
Obviously because you're a murderer if you're not a God-fearing Christian.
The news reports are surely going to start nitpicking at his opinions and views to come up with more stories, and if he's agnostic or atheist, then that's going to be a "problem".
On January 09 2011 08:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Here is a list of his favorite books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Sorry guys, just like the guy who flew the plane into a IRS building, surprise it's someone from the far left. But just remember, the left is peaceful, no matter how many people they kill.
His list of favorite books include Mein Kampf and you draw from that that he's a far-leftist? Half of those aren't even political books. Aesop's fables? Siddhartha? Gulliver's Travels?
Amazing. It's amazing what leaps minds steeped in tribalism will make to justify their hatred and ignorance.
On January 09 2011 08:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Here is a list of his favorite books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Sorry guys, just like the guy who flew the plane into a IRS building, surprise it's someone from the far left. But just remember, the left is peaceful, no matter how many people they kill.
What does his list of favorite books have to do with anything? There's no way to judge any sort of affiliation based on that book list. Whether someone loathes fiat currency? Yes.
I guessed you missed some of the important books, let me highlight them for you.
The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, We The Living. Tea partiers just looooooooooove Hitler, Stalin, Mousilini and Mao.
But the left does? We all know Communists and Fascists get along so well...
On January 09 2011 08:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote: (remember, anarchists want to move from anarchy to an oligarchy, and historically all oligarchies are controlled by lefists).
that is about as nonsensical as Jared Loughner's youtube videos
On January 09 2011 08:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Here is a list of his favorite books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Sorry guys, just like the guy who flew the plane into a IRS building, surprise it's someone from the far left. But just remember, the left is peaceful, no matter how many people they kill.
What does his list of favorite books have to do with anything? There's no way to judge any sort of affiliation based on that book list. Whether someone loathes fiat currency? Yes.
I guessed you missed some of the important books, let me highlight them for you.
The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, We The Living. Tea partiers just looooooooooove Hitler, Stalin, Mousilini and Mao.
Are you completely dense? Besides the fact that they're competing ideologies (which is why you can't tell if he supported them or not,) We The Living is an Ayn Rand novel.
On January 09 2011 08:27 SnK-Arcbound wrote: The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, We The Living. Tea partiers just looooooooooove Hitler, Stalin, Mousilini and Mao.
Lol? The only communists on that list are Stalin and Mao, and it was Marx who wrote the Communist Manifesto and Rand (who is definitely not leftwing) who wrote We the Living. nice troll
actually you joined in 2005 with ~700 posts, maybe not a troll. Saddening.
Two of those are characteristics of the Tea Party/internet libertarian movement.
You have no idea what you're talking about. All libertarianism means is you do your thing and I do mine. If a group feels like they're going to take it to the next level and make it violent or extreme, well thats not really libertarian is it?
EDIT: Not speaking of tea party. I see the tea party as a group of libertarians who are trying to get the rest of them more active in politics, because they tend not to be. Their over-the-top rhetoric and extremism is a little ridiculous.
the argument that palin et al encourage things like this to happen definitely has wings..
take away the lax gun control in that region and extremist tea party rhetoric and this situation might've never happened and such incidents would definitely be more rare
the guy would still be crazy, but if, say, he was influenced by hippie culture he'd be in some basement giggling to himself and his target would be a flying pink elephant or sth extremist rhetoric (the kind the tea party endorses) can influence retards or crazies everywhere to do extremist stuff, which is much more dangerous than, say, moderate rhetoric which can influence retards and crazies to do moderate stuff, like watch a football game with lots of passion
Two of those are characteristics of the Tea Party/internet libertarian movement.
You have no idea what you're talking about. All libertarianism means is you do your thing and I do mine. If a group feels like they're going to take it to the next level and make it violent or extreme, well thats not really libertarian is it?
Libertarianism and internet libertarians are two separate things. The population of libertarians and influence of Austrian economics on the real world are minuscule. The population of internet libertarians and Austrian supporters on the internet, fueled by documentaries and .us websites, is enormous. I'm not talking about Cato people.
On January 09 2011 08:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Here is a list of his favorite books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Sorry guys, just like the guy who flew the plane into a IRS building, surprise it's someone from the far left. But just remember, the left is peaceful, no matter how many people they kill.
What does his list of favorite books have to do with anything? There's no way to judge any sort of affiliation based on that book list. Whether someone loathes fiat currency? Yes.
I guessed you missed some of the important books, let me highlight them for you.
The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, We The Living. Tea partiers just looooooooooove Hitler, Stalin, Mousilini and Mao.
Seriously? You seriously think that you can read anything into that choice of books as to his political alignment? Those books are from all over the political spectrum.
Animal farm attacks authoritarianism, Mein Kampf is nazism, The republic is right wing/ in support of authoritarianism, The communist Manifesto is communist, Fahrenheit attacks authoritarianism, one flew over attacks authoritarianism. The rest show absolutely nothing about his political ideals at all as far as I know. The ones that are political are so varied that you cannot say he is either right of left wing from them.
This is a terrible tragedy... made even worse by the fact that one of the dead was a 9 year old girl.
I wonder what drives people to do something like this. A lot of my friend are railing about the Tea Party/Glenn Beck/Sarah Palin for influencing people to do shit like this, but it seems a little extreme. Sure, I consider them a bunch of right wing nutjobs, but I don't think even they'd condone violence to get what they want.
They really don't think through the consequences of their actions, though. I think it's been said before, but Sarah Palin had a (since taken down) image on her website:
Yep, that's Rep. Gifford's name on there, with a target sign painted on her district. And yep, that's Palin's signature beneath the map. To hake matters worse, one of Rep. Gifford's opponents held a "shoot an M16 with Jesse Kelly to remove Giffords from office" event:
Do these people even think? I sincerely hope this kills both of their political careers. Of course, to be fair, there's no proof yet that the shooter was influenced by or had heard of either of these, but come on. Under no circumstances should you be implying that violence towards those in office is at all acceptable.
On January 09 2011 08:34 Taguchi wrote: the argument that palin et al encourage things like this to happen definitely has wings..
take away the lax gun control...
Because people who kill people with guns obey gun control restrictions.... Should I link to the Luby's massacre again? Or maybe to all the mall/school/off limits shootings?
Brave actions by the bystander who took down the gunman. Hopefully the reasons behind this shit will be found.
Edit: Can we not make a bunch of conclusions as to why the shooter did it? Hopefully we'll find out if it was some lone "politically motivated" psycho, or just a psycho or if he was paid or what. As much as I hate Sarah Palin, it's ignorant to make this into a big left-vs-right thing. There will be people to blame (maybe just the shooter, maybe not) but until we find out more, let's not jump to conclusions. Or off topic.
On January 09 2011 08:30 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: I guessed you missed some of the important books, let me highlight them for you.
The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, We The Living. Tea partiers just looooooooooove Hitler, Stalin, Mousilini and Mao.
But the left does? We all know Communists and Fascists get along so well...[/QUOTE] Hitler, mousilini, and stalin all worked together to take over Europe. If you want I can get a 2 hour video describing how Communist Russia worked in tandem with Hitler and articles about how communism and socialism are ideologically almost identical from socialists, even though communist russia appeared to be against socialist ideas.
When this man turns out to be extremely left, I know every single person on here will refuse to admit it. He's a psycho, he's crazy, don't put any politcal leaning to him, all the while insinuating he is from a right ideology. When people claiming that Mein Kampf is rightist philosophy, when it's the manifesto of a man who sets up socialism in his country, with him as the supreme ruler, there is no point in arguing.
On January 09 2011 08:26 Jaksiel wrote: I don't think you can easily cram this guy into any established political ideology, but I guess that doesn't stop people from trying to use anything for political gain.
Yeah, either that or they are trolling. But the whole debate is just sad and shows how morally bankrupt america is, if people try to blame somebody only hours after such an attack.
Don't think about the problem, think about how you can use it against your political enemies. *sigh*
I don't know if this has been discussed or not but I'll paste it anyway just in case.
Judge Roll was a 1991 judicial appointee of George H. W. Bush after a distinguished career as an Arizona state attorney, an assistant U.S.attorney in the state, and then as a state court judge. In 2009, he drew sharp political criticism -- and death threats -- when he ruled on a pre-trial motion in favor of illegal immigrants in a civil case involving an Arizona rancher. At the time, the threats, online and otherwise, were significant and persistent enough enough to warrant full protective status from the U.S. Marshal's Service for Roll and his family. No charges were brought against the four men who were subsequently identified as having made the threats.
On January 09 2011 08:34 Taguchi wrote: the argument that palin et al encourage things like this to happen definitely has wings..
take away the lax gun control...
Because people who kill people with guns obey gun control restrictions.... Should I link to the Luby's massacre again? Or maybe to all the mall/school/off limits shootings?
man, can u not see that the chain of retard/crazy guy gets influenced by X, goes and buys a gun and kills a bunch of people can be broken when said retard cant just go to a shop and get a gun? in my country i dont have the slightest idea where or how i'd get a hold of any gun, this alone can act as sufficient deterrent for such people, nevermind actually implementing regulations like "hey, this guy has a myspace page full of crazy quotes, maybe we shouldnt sell him a gun"
On January 09 2011 08:39 SnK-Arcbound wrote: When people claiming that Mein Kampf is rightist philosophy, when it's the manifesto of a man who sets up socialism in his country, with him as the supreme ruler, there is no point in arguing.
Hitler didn't set up socialism. Please read a history book, or at the very least wikipedia before you continue writing total nonsense.
On January 09 2011 08:30 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: I guessed you missed some of the important books, let me highlight them for you.
The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, We The Living. Tea partiers just looooooooooove Hitler, Stalin, Mousilini and Mao.
But the left does? We all know Communists and Fascists get along so well...
Hitler, mousilini, and stalin all worked together to take over Europe. If you want I can get a 2 hour video describing how Communist Russia worked in tandem with Hitler and articles about how communism and socialism are ideologically almost identical from socialists, even though communist russia appeared to be against socialist ideas.
When this man turns out to be extremely left, I know every single person on here will refuse to admit it. He's a psycho, he's crazy, don't put any politcal leaning to him, all the while insinuating he is from a right ideology. When people claiming that Mein Kampf is rightist philosophy, when it's the manifesto of a man who sets up socialism in his country, with him as the supreme ruler, there is no point in arguing.
I can find you a 2-hour video proving that the US did 911 and how the corporations are controlling everything we do. Doesn't make it more true.
Also, I like how you dodged the fact that an Ayn Rand novel is on that list. How does that fit into your ideological portrait? Animal Farm is blatantly anti-communist. A fair share of those books are apolitical. I really doubt you can make an accurate assessment of a persons political orientation based on the books he/she reads.
On January 09 2011 08:39 SnK-Arcbound wrote: When people claiming that Mein Kampf is rightist philosophy, when it's the manifesto of a man who sets up socialism in his country, with him as the supreme ruler, there is no point in arguing.
Hitler didn't set up socialism. Please read a history book, or at the very least wikipedia before you continue writing total nonsense.
Yet another person who doesn't understand the distinction between national socialism and socialism.
There's a very big difference, Arcbound, I suggest you look into it.
His exact motivation was not immediately clear. Federal law enforcement officials were poring over captured versions of a MySpace page that belonged to Jared Loughner and over Youtube video published to the Internet weeks ago under an account "Classitup10" and linked to him. The MySpace page, which was removed within minutes of the gunman being identified by U.S. officials, included a mysterious "Goodbye friends" message published hours before the shooting and exhorted his friends to "Please don't be mad at me."
In one of several Youtube videos, which featured text against a dark background, Loughner described inventing a new U.S. currency and complained about the illiteracy rate among people living in Giffords' congressional district in Arizona. Two spellings of his last name were given in the aftermath of the shooting — Loughner and Laughner.
"I know who's listening: Government Officials, and the People," Loughner wrote. "Nearly all the people, who don't know this accurate information of a new currency, aren't aware of mind control and brainwash methods. If I have my civil rights, then this message wouldn't have happen (sic)."
On January 09 2011 08:39 SnK-Arcbound wrote: When people claiming that Mein Kampf is rightist philosophy, when it's the manifesto of a man who sets up socialism in his country, with him as the supreme ruler, there is no point in arguing.
Hitler didn't set up socialism. Please read a history book, or at the very least wikipedia before you continue writing total nonsense.
Hitler didn't set up social welfare to families who would raise blonde haired blue eyed children in order to help promote the perfect human and create the master race of Aryans? Would you like for me to quote Karl Marx for why exterminating the inferior races is how you bring about social revolution? Or do you not believe that Communist Russia and Hitlers Germany (National Socialist Party) worked together?
On January 09 2011 06:43 NoobieOne wrote: Ok so my main question is why wasn't there a policeman there? When a congressman visited my High School in upstate New York there was an extra policeman there that day. Meanwhile this is a public meeting in the wide open and the congresswoman was almost hated by the local population.
She wasn't and never has been hated by the "local population". She was hated by a fringe group of ignorant extremists.
Please be more careful with your words.
We're talking about Arizona. There's nothing fringe about Tea Party radicals in Arizona.
You're missing the point. She won in her congressional race and is respected and loved by many. The Tea party might be substantial but it is no majority.
Either way, it's somewhat tangential to this event anyhow - there is no solid confirmation as to what motivated this gunman thus far.
We do have insight into the gunners beliefs. Here's his youtube channel.
Offtopic but calling the tea party a fringe group doesn't even come close to the grip it has on some states. Arizona is one of the most backwards/tea party friendly states in the nation. So please don't spin it from "fringe group" to "not a majority".
Errr, guys, I doubt gun control has a major influence on crime. It seem to have almost no effect on how many people get shot a year. In America, with the massive ownership of guns, we see 11,000+ people die a year. In Switzerland, which is even more chill with the ownership of guns, their crime rate is very low.
Conclusion: Give the TEA Party a chill pill and increase living conditions.
On January 09 2011 08:39 SnK-Arcbound wrote: When people claiming that Mein Kampf is rightist philosophy, when it's the manifesto of a man who sets up socialism in his country, with him as the supreme ruler, there is no point in arguing.
Hitler didn't set up socialism. Please read a history book, or at the very least wikipedia before you continue writing total nonsense.
Hitler didn't set up social welfare to families who would raise blonde haired blue eyed children in order to help promote the perfect human and create the master race of Aryans? Would you like for me to quote Karl Marx for why exterminating the jews is how you bring about social revolution? Or do you not believe that Communist Russia and Hitlers Germany (National Socialist Party) worked together?
This dude has got to be trolling. Anyway, I just realized that this has gone way of topic.
On January 09 2011 08:39 SnK-Arcbound wrote: When people claiming that Mein Kampf is rightist philosophy, when it's the manifesto of a man who sets up socialism in his country, with him as the supreme ruler, there is no point in arguing.
Hitler didn't set up socialism. Please read a history book, or at the very least wikipedia before you continue writing total nonsense.
Yet another person who doesn't understand the distinction between national socialism and socialism.
There's a very big difference, Arcbound, I suggest you look into it.
It wasn't even national socialism. In fact working hours increased, wages decreased, healthcare was reduced and unions were controlled to the point were they couldn't work anymore. Of course being a socialist was also illegal. Oh yeah and all that happend long before the war. Hitler was neither are a socialist, nor a national socialst, his policy were far right. Claiming that he "set up socialism" is possibly the wrongest thing you could say about the guy. This information should actually be in every history book. At least it was in every history book I read.
Oh and yeah, NSDAP means nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei. Your translation is incorrect.
On January 09 2011 08:39 SnK-Arcbound wrote: When people claiming that Mein Kampf is rightist philosophy, when it's the manifesto of a man who sets up socialism in his country, with him as the supreme ruler, there is no point in arguing.
Hitler didn't set up socialism. Please read a history book, or at the very least wikipedia before you continue writing total nonsense.
Or do you not believe that Communist Russia and Hitlers Germany (National Socialist Party) worked together?
On January 09 2011 08:39 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Hitler, mousilini, and stalin all worked together to take over Europe. If you want I can get a 2 hour video describing how Communist Russia worked in tandem with Hitler and articles about how communism and socialism are ideologically almost identical from socialists, even though communist russia appeared to be against socialist ideas.
When this man turns out to be extremely left, I know every single person on here will refuse to admit it. He's a psycho, he's crazy, don't put any politcal leaning to him, all the while insinuating he is from a right ideology. When people claiming that Mein Kampf is rightist philosophy, when it's the manifesto of a man who sets up socialism in his country, with him as the supreme ruler, there is no point in arguing.
On January 09 2011 08:39 SnK-Arcbound wrote: When people claiming that Mein Kampf is rightist philosophy, when it's the manifesto of a man who sets up socialism in his country, with him as the supreme ruler, there is no point in arguing.
Hitler didn't set up socialism. Please read a history book, or at the very least wikipedia before you continue writing total nonsense.
Hitler didn't set up social welfare to families who would raise blonde haired blue eyed children in order to help promote the perfect human and create the master race of Aryans? Would you like for me to quote Karl Marx for why exterminating the inferior races is how you bring about social revolution? Or do you not believe that Communist Russia and Hitlers Germany (National Socialist Party) worked together?
The Tea-Party kool-aid of combining fascism, socialism, and communism into a single liberal entity that America must be taken back from, ladies and gentlemen.
I'm really sorry, I've been following this story and thread and I have to ask what the FUCK you people are talking about. There is no good evidence so far that he did it for very strong political reasons. Even if he did, I'm sure there are people with beliefs similar to his who don't go around killing people.
He's obviously crazy, and there are certainly crazy and sane people of any belief. You guys are just debating your own personal beliefs, and labeling him as the opposite of whatever your ideology. Pathetic.
All the tea party issues etc., are worth discussing, but that, in my opinion, is absolutely NOT what this is about. Figuring out the rest of the story is important but you inane debates aren't accomplishing that.
There is nothing more disgusting than people who use the martyrdom of the people who died under the oppressive rule or Hitler and Stalin to try to strengthen their political agenda.
On January 09 2011 08:34 Taguchi wrote: the argument that palin et al encourage things like this to happen definitely has wings..
take away the lax gun control...
Because people who kill people with guns obey gun control restrictions.... Should I link to the Luby's massacre again? Or maybe to all the mall/school/off limits shootings?
man, can u not see that the chain of retard/crazy guy gets influenced by X, goes and buys a gun and kills a bunch of people can be broken when said retard cant just go to a shop and get a gun?
Because that works so well in mexico, which has gun control insanely more restrictive than ours /rolleyes
I'd rather be able to buy a gun legally to protect myself from wackos, than not be able to and have the wackos get them anyway. And they will get them, believing anything else is fantasy land.
On January 09 2011 08:39 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Hitler, mousilini, and stalin all worked together to take over Europe. If you want I can get a 2 hour video describing how Communist Russia worked in tandem with Hitler and articles about how communism and socialism are ideologically almost identical from socialists, even though communist russia appeared to be against socialist ideas.
When this man turns out to be extremely left, I know every single person on here will refuse to admit it. He's a psycho, he's crazy, don't put any politcal leaning to him, all the while insinuating he is from a right ideology. When people claiming that Mein Kampf is rightist philosophy, when it's the manifesto of a man who sets up socialism in his country, with him as the supreme ruler, there is no point in arguing.
Edit: Hitler working with Stalin to invade Russia.
I thin the problem here is that system do not necessairly fall into the political category they name themselves after. For example, Germany claimed to be national-socialist but from today's percpetive we would call it a fascist military dictatorship. A lot of dictatorships call their states names like socialist or democratic or rebublic.
Apart from that semantic problem, you are right. Hitler and Stalin collaborated until Hitler thought it was a good idea to attack Russia. The reasons fpr this cooperation, however, were not at all ideological but rather aimed at gaining political power.
Yeah this guy was planning it for a while at least a month in advance. This guy was not some mental case he knew what he was doing. The Youtube videos show he defiantly wanted to send a message. It's weird though, because it's like he's stuck in (really bad) if a then b, a therefore b logic. His points don't make any sense or directly point to anything. My guess is that he's trying to get other people to come over to his view of the world, but that view is massively paranoid about government conspiracy so he uses terms like currency and literacy to cover for him.
Witness stating he [the shooter]was less than 5 feet from Gifford when he shot her. He then shot everyone around him. He tried escaping, a guy tackled him.
On January 09 2011 08:53 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Hitler didn't set up social welfare to families who would raise blonde haired blue eyed children in order to help promote the perfect human and create the master race of Aryans?
No. There were some programs, but it was limited to a few hundret people. The living standards of 99% of the workers have significantly decreased. Aryan or non-Aryans, didn't matter. Again, I urge you to read a history book.
On January 09 2011 08:53 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Would you like for me to quote Karl Marx for why exterminating the inferior races is how you bring about social revolution? Or do you not believe that Communist Russia and Hitlers Germany (National Socialist Party) worked together?
I am not sure what you are trying to say, as this seems to me like total nonsense. Either way, I refuse to continue this pointless "discussion". Your knowledge (or rather lack of knowledge) of history is scary, read up or stop trolling. At the very least stop talking about german politics, since you have no clue, yet your nonsense is dangerous.
On January 09 2011 08:55 Shiragaku wrote: Errr, guys, I doubt gun control has a major influence on crime. It seem to have almost no effect on how many people get shot a year. In America, with the massive ownership of guns, we see 11,000+ people die a year. In Switzerland, which is even more chill with the ownership of guns, their crime rate is very low.
Conclusion: Give the TEA Party a chill pill and increase living conditions.
To get technical, its actually a lot easier to own and carry a loaded weapon legally in the US. Sweden has a great firearms culture though, props to them and the Finns as well. (Finn reworked mosins are the best!)
I do live in Georgia though, and while most people no doubt assume Georgia is a backasswards swamp with no electricity, Atlanta is as metro as it gets. Kennesaw is a highly populated city about 10 miles out from Atlanta, and when Chicago banned guns (in the early 80s?) they adopted a law requiring every household to own a weapon as a way of protest. Its not technically enforced, but Kennesaw has the lowest rate of home invasion in the state, while Chicago has the second highest murder rate in the nation (unless DC has relinquished the title).
Still, its mostly apples and oranges. As pro-gun as I am, I will say that there is still no study on the effects of gun control/gun rights on violent crime with conclusive results. I would like to think that if everyone were armed, people would be a lot more careful how they acted around other people.
That's odd. I don't recall reading any articles claiming that Hitler and Stalin shot the congresswoman. Or that Hitler and Stalin were victims in the shooting either.
The fact that we immediately try to fit him on the political spectrum says enough tbh. I doubt it'll be as simple as that, dude seems to have had a lot of issues. But in the current state of affairs it could have been politically motivated, next time it may be. Is that really the road either side wants to go down? Really? Because they're well on their way.
Condoleances to the families in question, hope the survivors recover quickly.
1.5 hours about how Hitler and Stalin colluded to not only kill the Jews, but also to take over Europe.
Watch it then come back (sorry for the anti obama adds, but if you're watching the documentary then you shouldn't care).
I'm sure Hitler's constant denouncements of communism and the fact that he fucking attacked Russia won't figure into your opinion in the slightest...
Is it so unreasonable to believe that Stalin collaborated with Hitler before they went to war? When Communist China buys the USA's debt, and Muslim/Communist OPEC countries sell us oil? Apparently the fact that we're a democracy doesn't stop them from wanting to make some money.
We talk trash about China and the middle east's human rights practices all the time, as well as about the way Hugo Chavez is gradually becoming a dictator. They still want your money.
On January 09 2011 09:10 Hughduffel wrote: Sweden has a great firearms culture though, props to them and the Finns as well. (Finn reworked mosins are the best!)
I do live in Georgia though, and while most people no doubt assume Georgia is a backasswards swamp with no electricity, Atlanta is as metro as it gets.
Haha, I like how you went from talking about European countries to talking about portions of the US with the same names as European countries without skipping a beat.
I also seem to recall two high school students leaving a message saying video games like Doom made them kill a whole bunch of kids and teachers. That was probably the biggest troll of the century.
1.5 hours about how Hitler and Stalin colluded to not only kill the Jews, but also to take over Europe.
Watch it then come back (sorry for the anti obama adds, but if you're watching the documentary then you shouldn't care).
I'm sure Hitler's constant denouncements of communism and the fact that he fucking attacked Russia won't figure into your opinion in the slightest...
Is it so unreasonable to believe that Stalin collaborated with Hitler before they went to war? When Communist China buys the USA's debt, and Muslim/Communist OPEC countries sell us oil? Apparently the fact that we're a democracy doesn't stop them from wanting to make some money.
We talk trash about China and the middle east's human rights practices all the time, as well as about the way Hugo Chavez is gradually becoming a dictator. They still want your money.
If you lack any reasonable sources or proof, then yes it's very unreasonable to believe that. The German/USSR nonaggression pact was historically huge because both countries were completely opposed ideologically.
On January 09 2011 09:22 TributeBoxer wrote: Liberal Websites are crazy and riled this super leftist up.
A disgusting an unfounded allegation. I'll echo what people said on the last few pages: Stop trying to place blame on people who you are ideologically opposed to. There is absolutely no evidence to support what you said.
On January 09 2011 09:10 Hughduffel wrote: Sweden has a great firearms culture though, props to them and the Finns as well. (Finn reworked mosins are the best!)
I do live in Georgia though, and while most people no doubt assume Georgia is a backasswards swamp with no electricity, Atlanta is as metro as it gets.
Haha, I like how you went from talking about European countries to talking about portions of the US with the same names as European countries without skipping a beat.
Sometimes I completely forget how international TL is. I'm used to talking about this stuff on american websites. My bad : (
On January 09 2011 09:23 Hughduffel wrote: I also seem to recall two high school students leaving a message saying video games like Doom made them kill a whole bunch of kids and teachers. That was probably the biggest troll of the century.
Yet the same people that defend video games in such instances bash Sarah Palin and the Tea Party movement for this killing. Way to be biased.
I find it pretty funny that the OP asks us not to discuss gun control, calling it "unwarranted and unnecessary."
The issue of gun control is 100% relevant to this discussion. To forbid it just says, "I don't like where the discussion is going so can you guys please stop?"
"OT": The shooter probably had next to no reason for this. Without more information I'm going to go ahead and assume he was just one of those pro-anarchy, rebel-without-a-cause types looking to shake things up. We'll see, though.
EDIT: So after reading some of the posts in this thread: Gun control: No, don't talk about it Hitler's agenda: Yes!
On January 09 2011 09:23 Hughduffel wrote: I also seem to recall two high school students leaving a message saying video games like Doom made them kill a whole bunch of kids and teachers. That was probably the biggest troll of the century.
Yet the same people that defend video games in such instances bash Sarah Palin and the Tea Party movement for this killing. Way to be biased.
On January 09 2011 09:23 Hughduffel wrote: I also seem to recall two high school students leaving a message saying video games like Doom made them kill a whole bunch of kids and teachers. That was probably the biggest troll of the century.
Yet the same people that defend video games in such instances bash Sarah Palin and the Tea Party movement for this killing. Way to be biased.
On January 09 2011 09:18 DwD wrote: A newsstory just ran about his Myspace page where he said he was inspired by Sarah Palin and the tea party
Well if it runs on CNN it isn't really bashing or biased, if it is true, no?
Its good to hear the congresswoman is recovering. But lets not forget that the shooter killed a 9-year kid and a federal judge. Prayers to their families.
(I hate to bring this up, but I have no idea how a guy who puts "The Communist Manifesto" in his favorite reading is somehow conflated into the Tea Party. I know this place is often a juvenile cesspool of leftism but this really takes it too far. Also, lol at all the people who draw a massive distinction between communism and Nazism.
I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
The combination of Hitler and Marx leads me to believe that the guy's far more crazy-motivated than politics-motivated.)
On January 09 2011 09:27 .Aar wrote: I find it pretty funny that the OP asks us not to discuss gun control, calling it "unwarranted and unnecessary."
The issue of gun control is 100% relevant to this discussion. To forbid it just says, "I don't like where the discussion is going so can you guys please stop?"
I completely agree. Even Wayne LaPierre, the executive vice president of the NRA, routinely responds to these types of situations by saying that changes to the law must be made. That it is far too easy for those who have mental disorders to attain guns.
On January 09 2011 09:27 .Aar wrote: I find it pretty funny that the OP asks us not to discuss gun control, calling it "unwarranted and unnecessary."
The issue of gun control is 100% relevant to this discussion. To forbid it just says, "I don't like where the discussion is going so can you guys please stop?"
I completely agree. Even Wayne LaPierre, the executive vice president of the NRA, routinely responds to these types of situations by saying that changes to the law must be made. That it is far too easy for those who have mental disorders to attain guns.
Yes, the fact that people with clear mental health problems can get guns is something that needs to be changed, though I wish it wouldn't get conflated with general gun control issues.
I can't believe people are arguing about Hitlor and Stalin in this thread. First of all, get your facts straight, Germany and Russia only allied so that they could divide up Eastern Europe and that Hitlor wouldn't have to fight on two fronts. He had always planned to attack Russia, because he HATED communists. When they ended up fighting is resulted in the single greatest loss of life in the histor of mankind (The Eastern Front). I strongly suggest you read a book like Barborossa.
As for the shooters party? Sounds like he liked both communism and facism, and was a psycho.
On January 09 2011 09:27 .Aar wrote: I find it pretty funny that the OP asks us not to discuss gun control, calling it "unwarranted and unnecessary."
The issue of gun control is 100% relevant to this discussion. To forbid it just says, "I don't like where the discussion is going so can you guys please stop?"
I completely agree. Even Wayne LaPierre, the executive vice president of the NRA, routinely responds to these types of situations by saying that changes to the law must be made. That it is far too easy for those who have mental disorders to attain guns.
Yes, the fact that people with clear mental health problems can get guns is something that needs to be changed, though I wish it wouldn't get conflated with general gun control issues.
That's not a conflation, the two issues are attached. The easier it is for the general public to attain automatic weapons the easier it is for mad men.
On January 09 2011 08:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Here is a list of his favorite books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Sorry guys, just like the guy who flew the plane into a IRS building, surprise it's someone from the far left. But just remember, the left is peaceful, no matter how many people they kill.
What does his list of favorite books have to do with anything? There's no way to judge any sort of affiliation based on that book list. Whether someone loathes fiat currency? Yes.
I guessed you missed some of the important books, let me highlight them for you.
The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, We The Living. Tea partiers just looooooooooove Hitler, Stalin, Mousilini and Mao.
That is one of the most right-wing books ever made, as it has been mentioned before.
It is amazing though how a bullet can pass through the brain of a person and yet still generate optimism about that case.
On January 09 2011 09:35 1Eris1 wrote: I can't believe people are arguing about Hitlor and Stalin in this thread. First of all, get your facts straight, Germany and Russia only allied so that they ...
Really? lol
At least we can all agree that the shooter is a crazy guy, regardless of his opinions of politics and whatnot.
On January 09 2011 09:27 .Aar wrote: I find it pretty funny that the OP asks us not to discuss gun control, calling it "unwarranted and unnecessary."
The issue of gun control is 100% relevant to this discussion. To forbid it just says, "I don't like where the discussion is going so can you guys please stop?"
I completely agree. Even Wayne LaPierre, the executive vice president of the NRA, routinely responds to these types of situations by saying that changes to the law must be made. That it is far too easy for those who have mental disorders to attain guns.
Yes, the fact that people with clear mental health problems can get guns is something that needs to be changed, though I wish it wouldn't get conflated with general gun control issues.
I also agree, but it may be entirely possible that this time, there was no diagnosis on record.
That is one of the most right-wing books ever made, as it has been mentioned before.
I guess the Communist Manifesto is right-wing too!
Re: Mein Kampf. As a certain conservative luminary once noted: "conservatives advocate a color-blind society. They don't even get to the first step with racists".
As for the rest: a system characterized by state control of education/economy is entirely right-wing. Got it.
On January 09 2011 09:31 419 wrote: The combination of Hitler and Marx leads me to believe that the guy's far more crazy-motivated than politics-motivated.)
Probably true, but the issue is that politicians and pundits aren't appealing to political leanings anymore. They're defining the leanings themselves by appealing to emotions out of anomie. Most people have a mostly emotional understanding of politics and issues, therefore crazy-motivated and politics-motivated are conflated.
On January 09 2011 08:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Here is a list of his favorite books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Sorry guys, just like the guy who flew the plane into a IRS building, surprise it's someone from the far left. But just remember, the left is peaceful, no matter how many people they kill.
What does his list of favorite books have to do with anything? There's no way to judge any sort of affiliation based on that book list. Whether someone loathes fiat currency? Yes.
I guessed you missed some of the important books, let me highlight them for you.
The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, We The Living. Tea partiers just looooooooooove Hitler, Stalin, Mousilini and Mao.
That is one of the most right-wing books ever made, as it has been mentioned before.
It is amazing though how a bullet can pass through the brain of a person and yet still generate optimism about that case.
On January 09 2011 09:31 419 wrote: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
The combination of Hitler and Marx leads me to believe that the guy's far more crazy-motivated than politics-motivated.)
Because Marx was so CRAZY huh? :\
Genocide and writing books in a library are both equally CRAZY!
On January 09 2011 08:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Here is a list of his favorite books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Sorry guys, just like the guy who flew the plane into a IRS building, surprise it's someone from the far left. But just remember, the left is peaceful, no matter how many people they kill.
What does his list of favorite books have to do with anything? There's no way to judge any sort of affiliation based on that book list. Whether someone loathes fiat currency? Yes.
I guessed you missed some of the important books, let me highlight them for you.
The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, We The Living. Tea partiers just looooooooooove Hitler, Stalin, Mousilini and Mao.
That is one of the most right-wing books ever made, as it has been mentioned before.
It is amazing though how a bullet can pass through the brain of a person and yet still generate optimism about that case.
Far right politics usually involve supremacism — a belief that superiority and inferiority is an innate reality between individuals and groups — and a complete rejection of the concept of social equality as a norm.[2] Far right politics often support segregation; the separation of groups deemed to be superior from groups deemed to be inferior.[3] Far right politics also commonly include authoritarianism, nativism, racism and xenophobia.[4] The ideologies usually associated with the far right include fascism, Nazism and other ultra-nationalist, religiously extreme or reactionary ideologies.
The terms Right and Left were coined during the French Revolution, referring to seating arrangements in parliament; those who sat on the right supported preserving the institutions of the Ancien Régime (the monarchy, the aristocracy and the established church).[6][7][8][9] Use of the term "Right" became more prominent after the second restoration of the French monarchy in 1815 with the Ultra-royalists.[10] Historically it has been primarily used to refer to conservatives, reactionaries, monarchists, aristocrats, and theocrats. Later on the term would be used to describe those who support free market capitalism,[11] and those who support some forms of nationalism, including fascism
.
This guy did this because he was crazy not because he was aligned with any political ideals. Trying to blame this on a political group is baseless.
On January 09 2011 08:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Here is a list of his favorite books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Sorry guys, just like the guy who flew the plane into a IRS building, surprise it's someone from the far left. But just remember, the left is peaceful, no matter how many people they kill.
What does his list of favorite books have to do with anything? There's no way to judge any sort of affiliation based on that book list. Whether someone loathes fiat currency? Yes.
I guessed you missed some of the important books, let me highlight them for you.
The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, We The Living. Tea partiers just looooooooooove Hitler, Stalin, Mousilini and Mao.
That is one of the most right-wing books ever made, as it has been mentioned before.
It is amazing though how a bullet can pass through the brain of a person and yet still generate optimism about that case.
What's right-wing about Mein Kampf?
thats like askin whats right wing. At least here in germany mein kampf is the definition of right wing.
"At least five other people, including members of her staff, were hurt."
If more citizens would walk around armed no nut job would ever get off more than a couple shots off. Protect your selves people, no one is gunna do it for you
Probably true, but the issue is that politicians and pundits aren't appealing to political leanings anymore. They're defining the leanings themselves by appealing to emotions out of anomie. Most people have a mostly emotional understanding of politics and issues, therefore crazy-motivated and politics-motivated are conflated.
I disagree with this.
Politics-motivated: "I believe that the government's obligation to provide for its citizens is far exceeded by the gains of having citizens keep their own money" (or the other way around--in any case, its the crux of arguments about taxation)
To get from there to "put a bullet in X congressperson's head" requires something far more than over-enthusiasm about one's own beliefs.
To put it briefly: making jumps in logic that are consistent with a break from reality is something that isn't restricted to politics.
To correlate that in any way to how American politics works reflects a great deal of ignorance. For one thing:
Historically, the Right has advocated preserving the wealth and power of aristocrats and nobles.
Right-wing libertarianism (sometimes known as libertarian conservatism or conservative libertarianism) supports a decentralized economy based on economic freedom, and advocates policies such as property rights, free markets and free trade.
These are directly at odds. I'm sure I can find more examples. In any case, its impossible to define conservatism or liberalism as the sum of all its various incarnations over the centuries, and even if you did, it'd be so self-contradictory it'd be useless.
Another example: the libertarian strain of conservatism possesses similar/identical roots to what's commonly referred to as "classical liberalism".
When you have two ideologies so broad that they're cross-breeding, you should probably categorize people into them with caution.
On January 09 2011 10:02 Warlike Prince wrote: "At least five other people, including members of her staff, were hurt."
If more citizens would walk around armed no nut job would ever get off more than a couple shots off. Protect your selves people, no one is gunna do it for you
Right, because it would be impossible to find a good position for a nutjob. And having everybody armed will help the police identify the shooter.
Oh wait no, armed citizens are a nightmare in every possible shootout scenario.
Note: Internet theorycrafting & internet heroes do not work in real life.
On January 09 2011 10:02 Warlike Prince wrote: "At least five other people, including members of her staff, were hurt."
If more citizens would walk around armed no nut job would ever get off more than a couple shots off. Protect your selves people, no one is gunna do it for you
I think you might overrate people's reflexes in relation to responding to gun fire from a semi-automatic weapon, and underrate how easy it is to shoot people.
On January 09 2011 08:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Here is a list of his favorite books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Sorry guys, just like the guy who flew the plane into a IRS building, surprise it's someone from the far left. But just remember, the left is peaceful, no matter how many people they kill.
What does his list of favorite books have to do with anything? There's no way to judge any sort of affiliation based on that book list. Whether someone loathes fiat currency? Yes.
I guessed you missed some of the important books, let me highlight them for you.
The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, We The Living. Tea partiers just looooooooooove Hitler, Stalin, Mousilini and Mao.
That is one of the most right-wing books ever made, as it has been mentioned before.
It is amazing though how a bullet can pass through the brain of a person and yet still generate optimism about that case.
What's right-wing about Mein Kampf?
thats like askin whats right wing. At least here in germany mein kampf is the definition of right wing.
National socialism is nationalism + socialism. Why is that right-wing?
Picture was correct. Six have died as of result of the shooting, Sheriff does think she was the intended target.
Police have surrounded a house at 7700 N. Soledad Ave., which is the address listed by a man with the same name on a variety of online accounts and in the volunteer registry for the 2010 Tucson Festival of Books. The home is near West Magee Road and North Thornydale Road on the northwest side, about five miles from the shooting scene.
A former classmate of Loughner at Pima Community College said he was “obviously very disturbed.”
“He disrupted class frequently with nonsensical outbursts,” said Lynda Sorenson, who took a math class with Loughner last summer at Pima Community College’s Northwest campus.
Sorenson doesn’t recall if he ever made any threats or uttered political statements but he was very disruptive, she said. He was asked to leave the pre-algebra class several times and eventually was barred from class, said Sorenson, a Tucson resident.
MySpace, YouTube and Facebook accounts maintained by Loughner suggest he has spent most of his life on the northwest side: His profile says he attended Thornydale Elementary, Tortolita Middle School, Mountain View High School and Pima Community College.
On January 09 2011 08:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Here is a list of his favorite books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Sorry guys, just like the guy who flew the plane into a IRS building, surprise it's someone from the far left. But just remember, the left is peaceful, no matter how many people they kill.
What does his list of favorite books have to do with anything? There's no way to judge any sort of affiliation based on that book list. Whether someone loathes fiat currency? Yes.
I guessed you missed some of the important books, let me highlight them for you.
The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, We The Living. Tea partiers just looooooooooove Hitler, Stalin, Mousilini and Mao.
That is one of the most right-wing books ever made, as it has been mentioned before.
It is amazing though how a bullet can pass through the brain of a person and yet still generate optimism about that case.
What's right-wing about Mein Kampf?
thats like askin whats right wing. At least here in germany mein kampf is the definition of right wing.
National socialism is nationalism + socialism. Why is that right-wing?
Seriously? Did you just ignore all the previous responses to your question, THEN decide that you were right because the word socialism is in the name?
I've been following this since it happened, it's incredibly tragic and honestly foreshadows a potentially very dark time for our country in the coming years.
On January 09 2011 08:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Here is a list of his favorite books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Sorry guys, just like the guy who flew the plane into a IRS building, surprise it's someone from the far left. But just remember, the left is peaceful, no matter how many people they kill.
What does his list of favorite books have to do with anything? There's no way to judge any sort of affiliation based on that book list. Whether someone loathes fiat currency? Yes.
I guessed you missed some of the important books, let me highlight them for you.
The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, We The Living. Tea partiers just looooooooooove Hitler, Stalin, Mousilini and Mao.
That is one of the most right-wing books ever made, as it has been mentioned before.
It is amazing though how a bullet can pass through the brain of a person and yet still generate optimism about that case.
What's right-wing about Mein Kampf?
thats like askin whats right wing. At least here in germany mein kampf is the definition of right wing.
National socialism is nationalism + socialism. Why is that right-wing?
No it is not. Please learn what socialism actually means. Socialism opposes any form of nationalism. In fact, socialism aims at a society without nations.
To everyone arguing over whether fucking Hitler and Stalin are more right or left wing, fucking grow up, jesus christ. And for future reference the political spectrum insofar as it even exists is a diamond, not a line.
Can't believe in a thread about a shooting there's a) some fucking half wit who's decided that a lunatic with a gun is the representative for the 'left wing' and b) people dumb enough to give him oxygen.
Hope the survivors are OK, fucking sucks about the other victims. Did someone say a 9 year old was killed? That's so awful.
On January 09 2011 10:14 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Picture was correct. Six have died as of result of the shooting, Sheriff does think she was the intended target.
Police have surrounded a house at 7700 N. Soledad Ave., which is the address listed by a man with the same name on a variety of online accounts and in the volunteer registry for the 2010 Tucson Festival of Books. The home is near West Magee Road and North Thornydale Road on the northwest side, about five miles from the shooting scene.
A former classmate of Loughner at Pima Community College said he was “obviously very disturbed.”
“He disrupted class frequently with nonsensical outbursts,” said Lynda Sorenson, who took a math class with Loughner last summer at Pima Community College’s Northwest campus.
Sorenson doesn’t recall if he ever made any threats or uttered political statements but he was very disruptive, she said. He was asked to leave the pre-algebra class several times and eventually was barred from class, said Sorenson, a Tucson resident.
MySpace, YouTube and Facebook accounts maintained by Loughner suggest he has spent most of his life on the northwest side: His profile says he attended Thornydale Elementary, Tortolita Middle School, Mountain View High School and Pima Community College.
On January 09 2011 08:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Here is a list of his favorite books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Sorry guys, just like the guy who flew the plane into a IRS building, surprise it's someone from the far left. But just remember, the left is peaceful, no matter how many people they kill.
What does his list of favorite books have to do with anything? There's no way to judge any sort of affiliation based on that book list. Whether someone loathes fiat currency? Yes.
I guessed you missed some of the important books, let me highlight them for you.
The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, We The Living. Tea partiers just looooooooooove Hitler, Stalin, Mousilini and Mao.
That is one of the most right-wing books ever made, as it has been mentioned before.
It is amazing though how a bullet can pass through the brain of a person and yet still generate optimism about that case.
What's right-wing about Mein Kampf?
thats like askin whats right wing. At least here in germany mein kampf is the definition of right wing.
National socialism is nationalism + socialism. Why is that right-wing?
Seriously? Did you just ignore all the previous responses to your question, THEN decide that you were right because the word socialism is in the name?
I've been following this since it happened, it's incredibly tragic and honestly foreshadows a potentially very dark time for our country in the coming years.
No, I just replied to a random reply instead of quoting everyone.
It has socialism in the name for a reason.
Do you seriously think a right-winger is just a stone throw away from being a Nazi? No wonder you hate them so much, you're completely brain-washed.
To quote wikipedia: "There is no agreement on the position of generic fascism on the political spectrum, as has been described as left, right, and center."
"The Army has confirmed that the suspect was never in the Army. He attempted to enlist in the Army but was rejected for service. In accordance with the Privacy Act, we will not discuss why he was rejected."
This is a tragedy and whether it is right or left wing extremes we have to look at the political rhetoric right now and say that it had an effect on this guy.
If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'.
The fact that this dude lists Mein Kampf as one of his favorite books places him firmly outside the mainstream American political discourse. In the fringe territory where he exists there is no right and left, no republican or democrat. And anyone who says otherwise is trying to use this tragedy to advance their political agenda, which is just shameful.
On January 09 2011 10:19 Mayfly wrote: To quote wikipedia: "There is no agreement on the position of generic fascism on the political spectrum, as has been described as left, right, and center."
To quote wikipedia and end this silly debate (seriously, have you guys never read any history book at all?!):
Nazism (Nationalsozialismus, National Socialism; alternatively spelled Naziism[1]) was the ideology and practice of the Nazi Party and of Nazi Germany.[2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] It was a unique variety of fascism that involved biological racism and antisemitism.[10] Nazism presented itself as politically syncretic, incorporating policies, tactics and philosophies from right- and left-wing ideologies; in practice, Nazism was a far right form of politics.[11]
On January 09 2011 10:19 Mayfly wrote: To quote wikipedia: "There is no agreement on the position of generic fascism on the political spectrum, as has been described as left, right, and center."
To quote wikipedia and end this silly debate (seriously, have you guys never read any history book at all?!):
Nazism (Nationalsozialismus, National Socialism; alternatively spelled Naziism[1]) was the ideology and practice of the Nazi Party and of Nazi Germany.[2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] It was a unique variety of fascism that involved biological racism and antisemitism.[10] Nazism presented itself as politically syncretic, incorporating policies, tactics and philosophies from right- and left-wing ideologies; in practice, Nazism was a far right form of politics.[11]
On January 09 2011 10:19 Mayfly wrote: To quote wikipedia: "There is no agreement on the position of generic fascism on the political spectrum, as has been described as left, right, and center."
To quote wikipedia and end this silly debate (seriously, have you guys never read any history book at all?!):
Nazism (Nationalsozialismus, National Socialism; alternatively spelled Naziism[1]) was the ideology and practice of the Nazi Party and of Nazi Germany.[2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] It was a unique variety of fascism that involved biological racism and antisemitism.[10] Nazism presented itself as politically syncretic, incorporating policies, tactics and philosophies from right- and left-wing ideologies; in practice, Nazism was a far right form of politics.[11]
Thanks for proving my point.
edit: Why did you choose to quote me to say that?
Here, let me get the IMPORTANT part for you.
Wikipedia says: ...in practice, Nazism was a far right form of politics
Okay. I've ended your stupid debate. let's get back on topic here, okay? Let me start this off - having Mein Kampf in your list of "books read" is generally a bad thing, and helps show this individual may have been unstable or a little overly influenced by sources such as these. Might have been a red flag really - but was there any way to truly prevent this? Was this the fault of people such as Beck or Palin, or was it just simply a direction for this man to kill? Was he going to end up killing someone anyways? IE - Who is to blame?
"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And, unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry.
"It's not unusual for all public officials to get threats constantly, myself included. And that's the sad thing of what's going on in America. Pretty soon, we're not going to be able to find reasonable, decent people who are willing to subject themselves to serve in public office."
On January 09 2011 10:19 Mayfly wrote: To quote wikipedia: "There is no agreement on the position of generic fascism on the political spectrum, as has been described as left, right, and center."
To quote wikipedia and end this silly debate (seriously, have you guys never read any history book at all?!):
Nazism (Nationalsozialismus, National Socialism; alternatively spelled Naziism[1]) was the ideology and practice of the Nazi Party and of Nazi Germany.[2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] It was a unique variety of fascism that involved biological racism and antisemitism.[10] Nazism presented itself as politically syncretic, incorporating policies, tactics and philosophies from right- and left-wing ideologies; in practice, Nazism was a far right form of politics.[11]
Is it just a random shooting, is it all a coincidence? Or, is it not random?.. It's senseless violence, yes, but not in the perpetrator's mind.
This is eerie. Listening to the woman that was just attacked talk about the political tone preceding this horrible tragedy. Clearly this has been building up for quite some time.
Alright, everyone who hasn't the slightest idea of what a nazi, or socialist, or communist is, should probably stop making assertions. You all have laughable opinions and trying to revise history into a mold which supports your worldview is childish and dumb.
The fact remains that a member of congress was gunned down at point blank range by a man who, as all current research has shown, is batshit crazy.
Resume telling people that fascism isn't a far right form of government.
On January 09 2011 10:02 Warlike Prince wrote: "At least five other people, including members of her staff, were hurt."
If more citizens would walk around armed no nut job would ever get off more than a couple shots off. Protect your selves people, no one is gunna do it for you
If you're living in a society where, in order to be reasonably safe, you must be armed and ready to kill at a moments notice, you are not living in a civilized society! If you are living in a society where the only solution to curb violent maniacs is to yourself become a violent maniac, you are not living in a civilized society! Leave immediately for places where raving douchebags don't get to run around armed.
This is only one step up from the "State of Nature" or general anarchy.
Oh, and good job blaming the victims. Stay classy.
Why the fuck are people still talking about nazis and communism. NO ONE FUCKING CARES. This thread is about the shootings that occurred today. Go start a shitty blog about your opinions.
That list of books appears to be an attempt to look intellectual. I don't think you can actually acquire any information such a diverse list of books. Also after watching the videos he appears to be a strong libertarian. Libertarianism doesn't belong to either political party. Socially they side with democrats economically they side with republicans. Even if he was a hardliner supporter of either party that would not condemn either party. Radicals on all sides have a tendency to take overly extreme actions.
On a side not political rhetoric on all sides needs to calm down. I truly wish policy was more important to rhetoric when it comes to deciding elections.
To be quite frank I'm sick of arguing and thinking about the political ramifications of this tragedy. I feel dirty having done so already frequently in this thread. My thoughts are going out to the victims and I'll worry about the political tone later...
On January 09 2011 10:17 The KY wrote: To everyone arguing over whether fucking Hitler and Stalin are more right or left wing, fucking grow up, jesus christ. And for future reference the political spectrum insofar as it even exists is a diamond, not a line.
Can't believe in a thread about a shooting there's a) some fucking half wit who's decided that a lunatic with a gun is the representative for the 'left wing' and b) people dumb enough to give him oxygen.
Hope the survivors are OK, fucking sucks about the other victims. Did someone say a 9 year old was killed? That's so awful.
I totally agree, show some respect to the victims! This is a fucking sad tragedy and really fucked up.
On January 09 2011 10:02 Warlike Prince wrote: "At least five other people, including members of her staff, were hurt."
If more citizens would walk around armed no nut job would ever get off more than a couple shots off. Protect your selves people, no one is gunna do it for you
If you're living in a society where, in order to be reasonably safe, you must be armed and ready to kill at a moments notice, you are not living in a civilized society!If you are living in a society where the only solution to curb violent maniacs is to yourself become a violent maniac, you are not living in a civilized society! Leave immediately for places where raving douchebags don't get to run around armed.
This is only one step up from the "State of Nature" or general anarchy.
Oh, and good job blaming the victims. Stay classy.
Cant believe you are calling people who act out in self defense violent maniacs. You are unhinged and need help
On January 09 2011 10:45 IrGameStomp wrote: That list of books appears to be an attempt to look intellectual. I don't think you can actually acquire any information such a diverse list of books. Also after watching the videos he appears to be a strong libertarian. Libertarianism doesn't belong to either political party. Socially they side with democrats economically they side with republicans. Even if he was a hardliner supporter of either party that would not condemn either party. Radicals on all sides have a tendency to take overly extreme actions.
On a side not political rhetoric on all sides needs to calm down. I truly wish policy was more important to rhetoric when it comes to deciding elections.
No it's actually about 90% of what you read in US high schools. Taking the list from 419's post. here's what you'd normally read in high school:
Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, To Kill A Mockingbird, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Through The Looking Glass, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels.
So more or less everything. It's comes off more like he hasn't read much.
On January 09 2011 10:31 CarlyZerg wrote: If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'.
But that's not true. Look at the volume and virulence of the rhetoric. Show me a left-wing leader who has actually suggested a "2nd amendment solution" to problems; this is nothing nothing less than a threat of violence. Show me a left-wing TV personality who has actively called for popular insurrection against the legally-elected government. Show me left-wing protests that prominently display armed protesters, where the people are proud to show their guns and basically daring someone to start something.
I have never seen a left-wing protester carrying an assault rifle to a Bush rally when Bush was president. I have seen a right-wing protester doing the same during the Obama presidency.
I would be far more willing to believe that right-wingers thing left-wingers are worse than left-wingers perceive right-wingers. And I am far more willing to believe that right-wing crazies are a greater threat to peace and civil discourse than left-wing crazies.
That doesn't mean I think that all of the right are crazies, one step away from going apeshit. But it is very, very apparent that there are a lot more of their crazies who are out in force these days. And they're armed.
On January 09 2011 10:02 Warlike Prince wrote: "At least five other people, including members of her staff, were hurt."
If more citizens would walk around armed no nut job would ever get off more than a couple shots off. Protect your selves people, no one is gunna do it for you
If you're living in a society where, in order to be reasonably safe, you must be armed and ready to kill at a moments notice, you are not living in a civilized society!If you are living in a society where the only solution to curb violent maniacs is to yourself become a violent maniac, you are not living in a civilized society! Leave immediately for places where raving douchebags don't get to run around armed.
This is only one step up from the "State of Nature" or general anarchy.
Oh, and good job blaming the victims. Stay classy.
Cant believe you are calling people who act out in self defense violent maniacs. You are unhinged and need help
Gun violence is not decreased by the addition of more guns. The US has one of the highest per capita rate of gun crimes in any first world nation. Turns out if you reduce the number of guns in circulation, gun crime goes down.
Self defense is only considered a valid legal argument so long as no other possibilities existed, including the ability the flee.
@the posters that are knee jerk right-wing did it people
This is just another example of a leftist committing violence in the last few years. More examples below. ‘Oddball’ portrait of Amy Bishop emerges Suspect’s family, pals offer clues By Laurel J. Sweet, Jessica Van Sack, Jessica Fargen and Ira Kantor | Monday, February 15, 2010
Police in Huntsville, Ala., charged Bishop, 44, with capital murder after she allegedly opened fire on six colleagues at a faculty meeting Friday, killing three. Afterward, she calmly called her husband and asked him to pick her up as if nothing had happened, said police Chief Henry Reyes.
A family source said Bishop, a mother of four children – the youngest a third-grade boy – was a far-left political extremist who was “obsessed” with President Obama to the point of being off-putting.
Stunner. Al-Qaeda Killer Who Shot His Way Out of Hospital Is Former Dem Operative Thursday, March 11, 2010, 12:02 PM Jim Hoft
Al-Qaeda terrorist, Sharif Mobley, was arrested in Yemen earlier this year. The New Jersey man shot two men at a hospital in Yemen over the weekend after being arrested in the company of several al-Qaeda members. Sharif Mobley, 26, was quietly detained earlier this year by Yemeni authorities.
Jammie Wearing Fool has more on the “good kid” who, as luck would have it, ended up in a terrorist cell in Yemen, including this little nugget:
Campaign finance records show Mobley received $75 as an election day worker for Gov. Jon Corzine’s campaign in 2005.
ObamaCare Protester Punched in the Face During Union Sponsored Town Hall in NC….
The assault took place at the end of an opening speech Congressman Price at North Carolina Central University in Durham. Eyewitnesses of the assault say claim the assailant was an African-American woman who openly supported Obama.
New video from St. Louis town hall beating
Kenneth Gladney, a 38-year-old conservative activist from St. Louis, said he was attacked by some of those arrested as he handed out yellow flags with “Don’t tread on me” printed on them. He spoke to the Post-Dispatch from the emergency room of the St. John’s Mercy Medical Center, where he said he was waiting to be treated for injuries to his knee, back, elbow, shoulder and face that he suffered in the attack. Gladney, who is black, said one of his attackers, also a black man, used a racial slur against him before the attack started.
Handicapped Woman Cries After Assault By Union Thugs at Town Hall (Video) … Update: Woman Speaks Out on Being Stomped On
A handicapped woman with a walker cries as she tells how union members pushed her out her seat at a town hall:
Smashing women in the face–
St. Louis tea party protester is smashed in the face by SEIU member.
Healthcare-reform opponent says bit-off finger could not be re-attached
A healthcare-reform opponent whose finger was partially bitten off Wednesday during a Thousand Oaks rally said today that doctors could not re-attach the severed section.
Lila Rose assaulted by Planned Parenthood escort
At approximately 11:50am on Thursday, December 17th, 2009, Live Action President Lila Rose was struck by a male uniformed Planned Parenthood escort. The attack occurred on a public sidewalk outside a Planned Parenthood affiliate located at 1691 The Alameda in San Jose, California.
Pro-life demonstrator murdered at Michigan high school; Update: Motive confirmed
“The indication is that he had ill will … a grudge against these three individuals,” said Shiawassee County Prosecutor Randy Colbry. “The defendant was offended by the manner of Mr. Pouillon’s message.”
The gunman was reportedly motivated by Al Gore’s Inconvenient Truth eco-propaganda.
The Austin plane crasher, Joseph Andrew Stack:
To reiterate, here are Stack’s grievances, in order of appearance in his suicide note: failure of health care reform, banker bonuses, the Catholic church, base closings in Southern California, his own accountant, George W. Bush, tax treatment of freelance engineers, and capitalism.
On January 09 2011 10:02 Warlike Prince wrote: "At least five other people, including members of her staff, were hurt."
If more citizens would walk around armed no nut job would ever get off more than a couple shots off. Protect your selves people, no one is gunna do it for you
If you're living in a society where, in order to be reasonably safe, you must be armed and ready to kill at a moments notice, you are not living in a civilized society!If you are living in a society where the only solution to curb violent maniacs is to yourself become a violent maniac, you are not living in a civilized society! Leave immediately for places where raving douchebags don't get to run around armed.
This is only one step up from the "State of Nature" or general anarchy.
Oh, and good job blaming the victims. Stay classy.
Cant believe you are calling people who act out in self defense violent maniacs. You are unhinged and need help
No, you just did not understand his post. Someone claimed, less people get killed by crazy people bearing arms when everyone else is armed and immediately shoots them. Considering that everyone bearing arms and being alert and ready to immediately shoot someone if need be can be considered crazy, his argument is quite consistent. Also, citizens bearing arms and killing crazy shoorts is self-justice and in states under the rule of law that is not permitted.
On January 09 2011 10:31 CarlyZerg wrote: If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'.
But that's not true. Look at the volume and virulence of the rhetoric. Show me a left-wing leader who has actually suggested a "2nd amendment solution" to problems; this is nothing nothing less than a threat of violence. Show me a left-wing TV personality who has actively called for popular insurrection against the legally-elected government. Show me left-wing protests that prominently display armed protesters, where the people are proud to show their guns and basically daring someone to start something.
I have never seen a left-wing protester carrying an assault rifle to a Bush rally when Bush was president. I have seen a right-wing protester doing the same during the Obama presidency.
I would be far more willing to believe that right-wingers thing left-wingers are worse than left-wingers perceive right-wingers. And I am far more willing to believe that right-wing crazies are a greater threat to peace and civil discourse than left-wing crazies.
That doesn't mean I think that all of the right are crazies, one step away from going apeshit. But it is very, very apparent that there are a lot more of their crazies who are out in force these days. And they're armed.
Remember the guy that flew a plane into an IRS office, his 'suicide note' ending with words taken from the Communist manifesto?
Equating left and right violence is laughable. You haven't heard of the KKK by any chance?
I know, wasn't Robert Byrd, Grand Wizard (or Grand Dragon, or whatever silly title he had) of the KKK, a Democrat? Bull Connor--klansman and democrat.
In the KKK's formative day they shot and killed black Republicans, so I guess it isn't that surprising.
I'm all for people trying to make Republicans look like racist crazies. I find this quite amusing. But you're hardly even providing a challenge here.
On January 09 2011 10:31 CarlyZerg wrote: If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'.
But that's not true. Look at the volume and virulence of the rhetoric. Show me a left-wing leader who has actually suggested a "2nd amendment solution" to problems; this is nothing nothing less than a threat of violence. Show me a left-wing TV personality who has actively called for popular insurrection against the legally-elected government. Show me left-wing protests that prominently display armed protesters, where the people are proud to show their guns and basically daring someone to start something.
I have never seen a left-wing protester carrying an assault rifle to a Bush rally when Bush was president. I have seen a right-wing protester doing the same during the Obama presidency.
I would be far more willing to believe that right-wingers thing left-wingers are worse than left-wingers perceive right-wingers. And I am far more willing to believe that right-wing crazies are a greater threat to peace and civil discourse than left-wing crazies.
That doesn't mean I think that all of the right are crazies, one step away from going apeshit. But it is very, very apparent that there are a lot more of their crazies who are out in force these days. And they're armed.
Remember the guy that flew a plane into an IRS office, his 'suicide note' ending with words taken from the Communist manifesto?
On January 09 2011 10:31 CarlyZerg wrote: If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'.
But that's not true. Look at the volume and virulence of the rhetoric. Show me a left-wing leader who has actually suggested a "2nd amendment solution" to problems; this is nothing nothing less than a threat of violence. Show me a left-wing TV personality who has actively called for popular insurrection against the legally-elected government. Show me left-wing protests that prominently display armed protesters, where the people are proud to show their guns and basically daring someone to start something.
I have never seen a left-wing protester carrying an assault rifle to a Bush rally when Bush was president. I have seen a right-wing protester doing the same during the Obama presidency.
I would be far more willing to believe that right-wingers thing left-wingers are worse than left-wingers perceive right-wingers. And I am far more willing to believe that right-wing crazies are a greater threat to peace and civil discourse than left-wing crazies.
That doesn't mean I think that all of the right are crazies, one step away from going apeshit. But it is very, very apparent that there are a lot more of their crazies who are out in force these days. And they're armed.
Remember the guy that flew a plane into an IRS office, his 'suicide note' ending with words taken from the Communist manifesto?
after pages and pages of an anti-tax rant
Context is only important so long as it supports my side of the argument!
On January 09 2011 10:31 CarlyZerg wrote: If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'.
But that's not true. Look at the volume and virulence of the rhetoric. Show me a left-wing leader who has actually suggested a "2nd amendment solution" to problems; this is nothing nothing less than a threat of violence. Show me a left-wing TV personality who has actively called for popular insurrection against the legally-elected government. Show me left-wing protests that prominently display armed protesters, where the people are proud to show their guns and basically daring someone to start something.
I have never seen a left-wing protester carrying an assault rifle to a Bush rally when Bush was president. I have seen a right-wing protester doing the same during the Obama presidency.
I would be far more willing to believe that right-wingers thing left-wingers are worse than left-wingers perceive right-wingers. And I am far more willing to believe that right-wing crazies are a greater threat to peace and civil discourse than left-wing crazies.
That doesn't mean I think that all of the right are crazies, one step away from going apeshit. But it is very, very apparent that there are a lot more of their crazies who are out in force these days. And they're armed.
Remember the guy that flew a plane into an IRS office, his 'suicide note' ending with words taken from the Communist manifesto?
after pages and pages of an anti-tax rant
"one law for a rich, one law for the poor"
You're right, I heard John Edwards Sarah Palin talking about that some time ago.
Okay, more talk from Mr. Stack the arch-conservative:
The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.
Only a card-carrying Republican would say that.
E: There is no such thing as a leftist movement in the US.
o.O
This is just a really bizarre statement.
Context is only important so long as it supports my side of the argument!
I like your solution: don't support your arguments at all.
On January 09 2011 10:02 Warlike Prince wrote: "At least five other people, including members of her staff, were hurt."
If more citizens would walk around armed no nut job would ever get off more than a couple shots off. Protect your selves people, no one is gunna do it for you
If you're living in a society where, in order to be reasonably safe, you must be armed and ready to kill at a moments notice, you are not living in a civilized society!If you are living in a society where the only solution to curb violent maniacs is to yourself become a violent maniac, you are not living in a civilized society! Leave immediately for places where raving douchebags don't get to run around armed.
This is only one step up from the "State of Nature" or general anarchy.
Oh, and good job blaming the victims. Stay classy.
Cant believe you are calling people who act out in self defense violent maniacs. You are unhinged and need help
No, you just did not understand his post. Someone claimed, less people get killed by crazy people bearing arms when everyone else is armed and immediately shoots them. Considering that everyone bearing arms and being alert and ready to immediately shoot someone if need be can be considered crazy, his argument is quite consistent. Also, citizens bearing arms and killing crazy shoorts is self-justice and in states under the rule of law that is not permitted.
The problem is I should have the right not to bear arms and be reasonably safe.
I don't like the idea that all anyone with a gun has to do is pull a trigger in order to hurt me.
I also don't like the idea that in order to protect myself I should have to buy an expensive weapon.
I also don't like the idea that I can't do anything to protect myself against someone with a gun if I don't also have one, running just gets me shot in the back.
Now you tell me how the right to bear arms should supersede my right to personal safety.
More on Topic: I think it is kinda sad that anyone in a political position is in danger. I really do wonder what motivation anyone can have that is powerful enough to kill someone else that is not threatening their life.
On January 09 2011 10:31 CarlyZerg wrote: If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'.
But that's not true. Look at the volume and virulence of the rhetoric. Show me a left-wing leader who has actually suggested a "2nd amendment solution" to problems; this is nothing nothing less than a threat of violence. Show me a left-wing TV personality who has actively called for popular insurrection against the legally-elected government. Show me left-wing protests that prominently display armed protesters, where the people are proud to show their guns and basically daring someone to start something.
I have never seen a left-wing protester carrying an assault rifle to a Bush rally when Bush was president. I have seen a right-wing protester doing the same during the Obama presidency.
I would be far more willing to believe that right-wingers thing left-wingers are worse than left-wingers perceive right-wingers. And I am far more willing to believe that right-wing crazies are a greater threat to peace and civil discourse than left-wing crazies.
That doesn't mean I think that all of the right are crazies, one step away from going apeshit. But it is very, very apparent that there are a lot more of their crazies who are out in force these days. And they're armed.
Remember the guy that flew a plane into an IRS office, his 'suicide note' ending with words taken from the Communist manifesto?
after pages and pages of an anti-tax rant
"one law for a rich, one law for the poor"
You're right, I heard John Edwards Sarah Palin talking about that some time ago.
Okay, more talk from Mr. Stack the arch-conservative:
The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.
I wasn't going to post in this thread after seeing all of the ridiculousness, but I couldn't contain it anymore after reading Tributeboxer's little copy+pasted list. That might be the greatest troll bate ever written, or just plain stupidity. I honestly can't tell anymore.
This thread shouldn't be about left vs right.... but left + right vs crazies. Crazy people suck.
On January 09 2011 11:20 I_Love_Bacon wrote: I wasn't going to post in this thread after seeing all of the ridiculousness, but I couldn't contain it anymore after reading Tributeboxer's little copy+pasted list. That might be the greatest troll bate ever written, or just plain stupidity. I honestly can't tell anymore.
This thread shouldn't be about left vs right.... but left + right vs crazies. Crazy people suck.
Watching MSNBC and they have Keith anchoring the coverage...he looks like he is about to break down. Remember, he gave to her campaign and risked his job doing so.
On January 09 2011 10:31 CarlyZerg wrote: If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'.
But that's not true. Look at the volume and virulence of the rhetoric. Show me a left-wing leader who has actually suggested a "2nd amendment solution" to problems; this is nothing nothing less than a threat of violence. Show me a left-wing TV personality who has actively called for popular insurrection against the legally-elected government. Show me left-wing protests that prominently display armed protesters, where the people are proud to show their guns and basically daring someone to start something.
I have never seen a left-wing protester carrying an assault rifle to a Bush rally when Bush was president. I have seen a right-wing protester doing the same during the Obama presidency.
I would be far more willing to believe that right-wingers thing left-wingers are worse than left-wingers perceive right-wingers. And I am far more willing to believe that right-wing crazies are a greater threat to peace and civil discourse than left-wing crazies.
That doesn't mean I think that all of the right are crazies, one step away from going apeshit. But it is very, very apparent that there are a lot more of their crazies who are out in force these days. And they're armed.
Remember the guy that flew a plane into an IRS office, his 'suicide note' ending with words taken from the Communist manifesto?
after pages and pages of an anti-tax rant
"one law for a rich, one law for the poor"
You're right, I heard John Edwards Sarah Palin talking about that some time ago.
Okay, more talk from Mr. Stack the arch-conservative:
The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.
Only a card-carrying Republican would say that.
E: There is no such thing as a leftist movement in the US.
o.O
Context is only important so long as it supports my side of the argument!
I like your solution: don't support your arguments at all.
Do you mean to tell me the democrats are a leftist organization?
I don't know, does "an organization full of people advancing 'leftist' (will be happy to define this if asked) views" qualify under your stringent criteria?
An on-topic note: I'm not even trying to claim that the shooter was left-wing, and in fact I'm more inclined to believe that he's apolitically deluded. It just irks me to see you claim "no way it could have been us, only those right-wing Republican/tea partiers do that political violence stuff".
Ultimately the arguments in this thread are just as illogical as claiming that Pol Pot, Stalin, John Hinckley, Sirhan Sirhan, Hitler, or Timothy McVeigh were just exuberant adherents of leftist/rightist/ilovejodiefoster ideology and happen to represent all of them.
I would also be fine with taking this "political violence correlated with ideology" shitfest to PMs if that's fine with you.
On January 09 2011 10:31 CarlyZerg wrote: If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'.
But that's not true. Look at the volume and virulence of the rhetoric. Show me a left-wing leader who has actually suggested a "2nd amendment solution" to problems; this is nothing nothing less than a threat of violence. Show me a left-wing TV personality who has actively called for popular insurrection against the legally-elected government. Show me left-wing protests that prominently display armed protesters, where the people are proud to show their guns and basically daring someone to start something.
I have never seen a left-wing protester carrying an assault rifle to a Bush rally when Bush was president. I have seen a right-wing protester doing the same during the Obama presidency.
I would be far more willing to believe that right-wingers thing left-wingers are worse than left-wingers perceive right-wingers. And I am far more willing to believe that right-wing crazies are a greater threat to peace and civil discourse than left-wing crazies.
That doesn't mean I think that all of the right are crazies, one step away from going apeshit. But it is very, very apparent that there are a lot more of their crazies who are out in force these days. And they're armed.
Remember the guy that flew a plane into an IRS office, his 'suicide note' ending with words taken from the Communist manifesto?
Equating left and right violence is laughable. You haven't heard of the KKK by any chance?
I know, wasn't Robert Byrd, Grand Wizard (or Grand Dragon, or whatever silly title he had) of the KKK, a Democrat? Bull Connor--klansman and democrat.
In the KKK's formative day they shot and killed black Republicans, so I guess it isn't that surprising.
I'm all for people trying to make Republicans look like racist crazies. I find this quite amusing. But you're hardly even providing a challenge here.
Are you seriously using the D and R labels from before the post-WWII switch? Byrd was an asshole but he simply stayed with the party. The Democratic party he joined was opposite the one it became after WWII.
On January 09 2011 10:31 CarlyZerg wrote: If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'.
But that's not true. Look at the volume and virulence of the rhetoric. Show me a left-wing leader who has actually suggested a "2nd amendment solution" to problems; this is nothing nothing less than a threat of violence. Show me a left-wing TV personality who has actively called for popular insurrection against the legally-elected government. Show me left-wing protests that prominently display armed protesters, where the people are proud to show their guns and basically daring someone to start something.
I have never seen a left-wing protester carrying an assault rifle to a Bush rally when Bush was president. I have seen a right-wing protester doing the same during the Obama presidency.
I would be far more willing to believe that right-wingers thing left-wingers are worse than left-wingers perceive right-wingers. And I am far more willing to believe that right-wing crazies are a greater threat to peace and civil discourse than left-wing crazies.
That doesn't mean I think that all of the right are crazies, one step away from going apeshit. But it is very, very apparent that there are a lot more of their crazies who are out in force these days. And they're armed.
Remember the guy that flew a plane into an IRS office, his 'suicide note' ending with words taken from the Communist manifesto?
after pages and pages of an anti-tax rant
"one law for a rich, one law for the poor"
You're right, I heard John Edwards Sarah Palin talking about that some time ago.
Okay, more talk from Mr. Stack the arch-conservative:
The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.
Only a card-carrying Republican would say that.
E: There is no such thing as a leftist movement in the US.
o.O
Context is only important so long as it supports my side of the argument!
I like your solution: don't support your arguments at all.
Do you mean to tell me the democrats are a leftist organization?
I don't know, does "an organization full of people advancing 'leftist' (will be happy to define this if asked) views" qualify under your stringent criteria?
An on-topic note: I'm not even trying to claim that the shooter was left-wing, and in fact I'm more inclined to believe that he's apolitically deluded. It just irks me to see you claim "no way it could have been us, only those right-wing Republican/tea partiers do that political violence stuff".
Ultimately the arguments in this thread are just as illogical as claiming that Pol Pot, Stalin, John Hinckley, Sirhan Sirhan, Hitler, or Timothy McVeigh were just exuberant adherents of leftist/rightist/ilovejodiefoster ideology and happen to represent all of them.
I would also be fine with taking this "political violence correlated with ideology" shitfest to PMs if that's fine with you.
This is a convenient way for you to avoid the fact that Tea Party leaders have made absurdly vitriolic remarks over the past two years, bordering on calling for violent arms against the federal government.
All of those people DID fall within the political spectrum. Why is it that when it's Americans committing disgusting acts, they're just "bad apples" and they're not influenced by the greater culture surrounding their movement, but when it's Muslims doing the same, the entire fucking religion/movement has to go. Here's a hint: in all of history, isolated bad apples don't exist.
I've never mentioned Republicans this entire thread, before talking about the 20th century party switch and I don't think they're particularly relevant to the Tea Party movement, nor do I think the Tea Party movement has much to do with conservatism besides them recruiting from a similar base and trying to steal power from one another. The issue is people who actually believe we should take up arms against the government and are egged on by irresponsible assholes like Beck or Sharon Angle. I don't know the leftwing anarchist assholes that promote the same shit, because they don't have primetime shows on major cable stations, but I'm sure they exist.
One side is openly catering to these people to win elections, the other isn't.
The BlueDog Democrats aren't popular with the Rep. base or the Dem. base. They hold a more centrist position. This could have been motivated from left or right. Based on the youtube page and his favorite books list, it looks more like violence of the leftist type.
While a tragedy, I can't help but feel like this is only the beginning of we will see in violence against politicians. A lot of people aren't happy with the way things are going, and Washington is out of ideas on how to make it appear painless for people around the country and kick the can down the road.
Books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
On January 09 2011 10:31 CarlyZerg wrote: If this crazy shooter (and about half the responses in this thread) prove anything, it's that American politics atm is WAY too polemical. Both the American left and right essentially believe the other side are some combination of stupid, dishonest, and evil. The result is a paranoid and hostile political climate where when shit like this happens, rather than a universal condemnation of the villain(s) responsible, we get incredibly petty bickering and a race to identify the villain(s) as members of the 'other team'.
But that's not true. Look at the volume and virulence of the rhetoric. Show me a left-wing leader who has actually suggested a "2nd amendment solution" to problems; this is nothing nothing less than a threat of violence. Show me a left-wing TV personality who has actively called for popular insurrection against the legally-elected government. Show me left-wing protests that prominently display armed protesters, where the people are proud to show their guns and basically daring someone to start something.
I have never seen a left-wing protester carrying an assault rifle to a Bush rally when Bush was president. I have seen a right-wing protester doing the same during the Obama presidency.
I would be far more willing to believe that right-wingers thing left-wingers are worse than left-wingers perceive right-wingers. And I am far more willing to believe that right-wing crazies are a greater threat to peace and civil discourse than left-wing crazies.
That doesn't mean I think that all of the right are crazies, one step away from going apeshit. But it is very, very apparent that there are a lot more of their crazies who are out in force these days. And they're armed.
Remember the guy that flew a plane into an IRS office, his 'suicide note' ending with words taken from the Communist manifesto?
after pages and pages of an anti-tax rant
"one law for a rich, one law for the poor"
You're right, I heard John Edwards Sarah Palin talking about that some time ago.
Okay, more talk from Mr. Stack the arch-conservative:
The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.
Only a card-carrying Republican would say that.
E: There is no such thing as a leftist movement in the US.
o.O
Context is only important so long as it supports my side of the argument!
I like your solution: don't support your arguments at all.
Do you mean to tell me the democrats are a leftist organization?
I don't know, does "an organization full of people advancing 'leftist' (will be happy to define this if asked) views" qualify under your stringent criteria?
An on-topic note: I'm not even trying to claim that the shooter was left-wing, and in fact I'm more inclined to believe that he's apolitically deluded. It just irks me to see you claim "no way it could have been us, only those right-wing Republican/tea partiers do that political violence stuff".
Ultimately the arguments in this thread are just as illogical as claiming that Pol Pot, Stalin, John Hinckley, Sirhan Sirhan, Hitler, or Timothy McVeigh were just exuberant adherents of leftist/rightist/ilovejodiefoster ideology and happen to represent all of them.
I would also be fine with taking this "political violence correlated with ideology" shitfest to PMs if that's fine with you.
Yes, an organization that supports leftist ideals would be. But the democrats are corporate apologists, not leftists. There's some lip service paid to social issues such as gay rights but nothing much ever gets done in those regards. Much the same way the Republicans need to placate the protestants, bigots, and gun nuts in order to garner those votes.
On January 09 2011 10:02 Warlike Prince wrote: "At least five other people, including members of her staff, were hurt."
If more citizens would walk around armed no nut job would ever get off more than a couple shots off. Protect your selves people, no one is gunna do it for you
If you're living in a society where, in order to be reasonably safe, you must be armed and ready to kill at a moments notice, you are not living in a civilized society!If you are living in a society where the only solution to curb violent maniacs is to yourself become a violent maniac, you are not living in a civilized society! Leave immediately for places where raving douchebags don't get to run around armed.
This is only one step up from the "State of Nature" or general anarchy.
Oh, and good job blaming the victims. Stay classy.
Cant believe you are calling people who act out in self defense violent maniacs. You are unhinged and need help
No, you just did not understand his post. Someone claimed, less people get killed by crazy people bearing arms when everyone else is armed and immediately shoots them. Considering that everyone bearing arms and being alert and ready to immediately shoot someone if need be can be considered crazy, his argument is quite consistent. Also, citizens bearing arms and killing crazy shoorts is self-justice and in states under the rule of law that is not permitted.
The problem is I should have the right not to bear arms and be reasonably safe.
I don't like the idea that all anyone with a gun has to do is pull a trigger in order to hurt me.
I also don't like the idea that all anyone with a gun has to do is pull a trigger in order to hurt me. unfortunately that is the laws of physics. All Any one with a car has to do is push a lever to hurt you.... etc. Well I guess they also have to find you... but you are in favor of living in a society correct?
On January 09 2011 11:09 Traveler wrote:
I also don't like the idea that in order to protect myself I should have to buy an expensive weapon.
Seriously... you don't believe in police??? with police you are renting an expensive weapon.
To defend yourself against you fellow human beings you need weapons. Period. Now whether you wield those weapons yourself or trust someone else to do it for you (police/private security) is a choice you can make. I'm sure banks are pissed about having to hire expensive security guards too.
If you feel safe enough with the police, then you don't need to have a weapon, but if the police Don't give you enough safety then you can get one (and incidentally increase the safety of others if You yourself are not a threat... same as the police... more police is good for safety if the police themselves are not threats to safety)
On January 09 2011 11:09 Traveler wrote:
I also don't like the idea that I can't do anything to protect myself against someone with a gun if I don't also have one, running just gets me shot in the back.
Now you tell me how the right to bear arms should supersede my right to personal safety.
The right to bear arms IS your right to personal safety
The police are there for society's safety as a whole not yours personally. (that's why they don't escort you to work every day.. and why there are more cops protecting the President than you, etc.)
Generally in political spectrum, the more right one leans, the more controlling and more prone to use force to keep said control/order.
Julian Assange is one such example: People who want him dead, calling for his assassination and all others, when he has not committed any crime, are all right-wingers.
On January 09 2011 11:52 Selith wrote: Generally in political spectrum, the more right one leans, the more controlling and more prone to use force to keep said control/order.
Julian Assange is one such example: People who want him dead, calling for his assassination and all others, when he has not committed any crime, are all right-wingers.
Well right or left, a tyrant needs oppression to keep power. It is true for monarchs. It is true for Stalin, Mao, and the numerous other "leftist" dictators. I don't think your left or right distinction is very instructive. The right are bigger power mongers on the international stage. It's natural they see Julian as more of a threat.
On January 09 2011 11:52 Selith wrote: Generally in political spectrum, the more right one leans, the more controlling and more prone to use force to keep said control/order.
Julian Assange is one such example: People who want him dead, calling for his assassination and all others, when he has not committed any crime, are all right-wingers.
LOL. The left sees the world as problems and government programs that need to be created to fix them. In college, any discussion about society would include a liberal telling how we need a government program or law to fix that. The Left is way more controlling. They advocate destroying free speech they don't like. All I see in this thread is complaining how the Rights free speech is too mean. They dont care that President Obama told his supporters to "punish their enemies" and "get in their face". How about condemning the President for irresponsibility first before private citizens
On January 09 2011 12:08 TributeBoxer wrote: LOL. The left sees the world as problems and government programs that need to be created to fix them. In college, any discussion about society would include a liberal telling how we need a government program or law to fix that. The Left is way more controlling. They advocate destroying free speech they don't like. All I see in this thread is complaining how the Rights free speech is too mean. They dont care that President Obama told his supporters to "punish their enemies" and "get in their face". How about condemning the President for irresponsibility first before private citizens
Truth to be said, USA's so-called "leftists" are not left at all. Democrats are center-left, and Republicans are center-right.
If you wish to see truly more varied political spectrum, check out European politics.
After watching all the videos on his youtube channel the only part of the political spectrum he seems to fall under is marked "insane". He has both left and right leaning statements in his little rants, but none of it makes any sense. I think some sort of mental problems are at the root of this. He uses logic to prove points that are completely nonsensical. He is kind of against religion mixing with politics and he is also kind of against a currency not backed by a gold standard? It really doesn't make any sense at all. Its just the ramblings of a madman.
Poor kid, hate mongers in radio and television are usually coming from the extreme right. It's just so sad for these people to spew their trash over and over and not have the face to own up to the consequences. When will Savage and Limbaugh stand up and apologize for their words?
On January 09 2011 11:52 Selith wrote: Generally in political spectrum, the more right one leans, the more controlling and more prone to use force to keep said control/order.
Julian Assange is one such example: People who want him dead, calling for his assassination and all others, when he has not committed any crime, are all right-wingers.
LOL. The left sees the world as problems and government programs that need to be created to fix them. In college, any discussion about society would include a liberal telling how we need a government program or law to fix that. The Left is way more controlling. They advocate destroying free speech they don't like. All I see in this thread is complaining how the Rights free speech is too mean. They dont care that President Obama told his supporters to "punish their enemies" and "get in their face". How about condemning the President for irresponsibility first before private citizens
Is there a video of President Obama saying this? I don't remember it happening and I would be interested in seeing it.
Why the hell does it matter whether he's a leftist nut or a rightist nut? He's still a nut who tragically shot and killed 6 people today, and wounded many others.
People need to stop arguing over whose policies he followed and just accept that he was a sick man who did terrible things.
(and yes, I know I'll probably get called out for the post I made earlier. However, the discussion was a lot less crazy back then).
On January 09 2011 11:39 TanGeng wrote: The BlueDog Democrats aren't popular with the Rep. base or the Dem. base. They hold a more centrist position. This could have been motivated from left or right. Based on the youtube page and his favorite books list, it looks more like violence of the leftist type.
While a tragedy, I can't help but feel like this is only the beginning of we will see in violence against politicians. A lot of people aren't happy with the way things are going, and Washington is out of ideas on how to make it appear painless for people around the country and kick the can down the road.
Books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Its weird to see ppl here try to point fingers in specific political directions. Problem is, there is a huge anti-government mentality in US atm and this can result in redical behavior and some politicians of the Republicans are using this mentality to push their agenda.
Btw. how does this look like a "leftist" type to you? I mean communist manifesto and Mein Kampf, he also made statements against immigrants and he considered himself an atheist... Hard to see any specific political motivation here.
The kid is not batshit insane! He can think and reason, his logic is just twisted which means he is just schizo or psychotic. There is a connection, and the fucking tea partiers have something to do with this.
On January 09 2011 12:25 BrownBear wrote: Why the hell does it matter whether he's a leftist nut or a rightist nut? He's still a nut who tragically shot and killed 6 people today, and wounded many others.
People need to stop arguing over whose policies he followed and just accept that he was a sick man who did terrible things.
(and yes, I know I'll probably get called out for the post I made earlier. However, the discussion was a lot less crazy back then).
There's specific groups of people running around with misspelled signs about getting their way via the "second amendment". The woman in question is a democrat in a very red state (apparently not her district however). A democrat holding her position getting shot could very well be politically motivated, that's why it's relevant.
People with Schizophrenia are generally classified as insane, at least by non-doctors. I really doubt tea partiers have anything to do with this. Watch his video, you can pick out pro-tea party stuff (wants to return to the gold standard) and non tea party stuff (is against god). One of his main points is that the army recruiters hand out bibles to soldiers as they sign up and this is a bad thing. Thats hardly a tea party position. Personally I am a socialist, and I hate the tea party with a fiery passion. However in this case I cant in good conscience say this is the fault of the tea party or even glen beck. I don't think he looked at a map put out by Sarah Palin and decided this woman was a target. He is just nuts.
Problem is that the republican rhetoric and people like glenn beck rally these kind of people with "crosshairs" and other such talk. Basically they indirectly cause this with their verbage etc.
On January 09 2011 12:41 Endbringer wrote: One of his main points is that the army recruiters hand out bibles to soldiers as they sign up and this is a bad thing.
I wouldn't go so far as to call that a point because he sort of just mentions it between two other things and it's hard to decipher what the hell he was getting at. Everything seems to come back to him believing that the US federal reserve is some kind of mind control and you should break the spell of the government by making up new words and using gold coins.
I think that rhetoric like the above is a big cause of concern. I'll definitely be voting democrat because of this crap. Note that she has the now traumatically brain injured woman's name and a crosshair over her home city.
On January 09 2011 03:43 Jameser wrote: arizona is the state where the police can kick you out for not having your immigration forms on you at all times correct?
No, Arizona is the state that can kick you out if you are an illegal immigrant. If you don't have your papers on you they can take you into custody until you can provide them though. You really should have the papers on you at all times anyways, I mean, if you are driving a car you are required to be carrying your drivers license the whole time, it's the same concept.
A driver's license verifies that you are capable of operating a vehicle. It is reasonable to expect people to operate a potentially dangerous vehicle to have proof that they are capable of operating it.
The police requesting identification papers, for no reason, on the other hand, falls well in the realm of "None of your business."
On January 09 2011 11:59 419 wrote: “We don’t know if he’s from the lunatic left or the lunatic right. We just see his crazy words.” -Wolf Blitzer
One of the rare voices of reason in all this.
Although for the most part your posts have irked me, 419, I have to say that first: yes, let's not argue about the political ideology of the probably-batshit-crazy shooter, and second: Wolf Blitzer has an EVEN COOLER name than Bear Grylls. Which means probably the coolest name ever.
But seriously, I'm quite liberal as far as voting records go, but even so, just because the congresswoman was democratic does NOT mean that the shooter was some conservative/Tea Party nut (or that he was inspired by the in-retrospectum-tacky Palin "target" poster on her PAC). Almost certainly, someone that disturbed did not fall under any conventional political party's ideals. Although most of the pointless political arguing now is just reactionary, it's really quite meaningless to carry it on.
As someone who experienced the general shittiness of any public shooting firsthand at Virginia Tech in 2007, I'll just say that it's far more productive to just accept that he was a fucked up individual and not look too much further into it than that. It's not a constructive argument, and frankly it's not even really relevant either; even if he was a Tea Party supporter (or insert-whichever-organization-you-wish), then he obviously isn't representative of them as a group.
What happened is pretty terrible. My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone affected. I urge people on this forum to be more overall sympathetic as opposed to aggressively accusatory--on both sides of the political spectrum.
A funny comment from CNN. "President Barack Obama sent FBI Director Richard Mueller to help coordinate the joint investigation, which federal authorities stressed did not appear to have any connection to terrorism."
I wonder if an act of terrorism is only referred to as terrorism when its done by a specific group of people. Shooting political figures for their opinion seems like terrorism to me....
On January 09 2011 13:52 sekritzzz wrote: A funny comment from CNN. "President Barack Obama sent FBI Director Richard Mueller to help coordinate the joint investigation, which federal authorities stressed did not appear to have any connection to terrorism."
I wonder if an act of terrorism is only referred to as terrorism when its done by a specific group of people. Shooting political figures for their opinion seems like terrorism to me....
Terrorism is usually denoted for a large scale attack or group. Murder is just murder, even if it is political.
Terrorism: * the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear
On January 09 2011 13:59 Silidons wrote: Terrorism: * the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear
Don Coorough, 58, who sat two desks in front of Mr. Loughner in a poetry class last semester, described him as a “troubled young man” and “emotionally underdeveloped.” After another student read a poem about getting an abortion, Mr. Loughner compared the young woman to a “terrorist for killing the baby.”
“No one in that class would even sit next to him,” Mr. Coorough said. Another fellow student said that he found Mr. Loughner’s behavior so eccentric — including inappropriate remarks and unusual outbursts — that he wondered if he might be on hallucinogens. Mr. Loughner grew up in Tucson and was an unremarkable student at Mountain View High School, classmates said.
Grant Wiens, 22, who graduated in 2006 from Mountain View High School, a year ahead of Mr. Loughner, described him as “a kind of rare bird, very shy.”
“He didn’t seem very popular, but he kind of did his own thing,” Mr. Wiens said.
Mr. Wiens said that something Mr. Loughner said during a discussion about religion had stuck in his mind: “Whatever happens, happens,” Mr. Wiens recalled the suspect saying. “Might as well enjoy life now.”
Oh man.. so having watched his youtube video's ..it's pure madness. This guy was/is a nutcase. He's not political he's -insane- He rambles about grammar,mind control and currency. Yeah I think he could of been on hallucinogens at least I hope he was on something. It's frightening to think about someone that.. off.
On January 09 2011 13:41 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: The 9 year old that died was born on Sept 11 2001...
Holy check, that is a HUGE coincidence. So sad that he was involved in this tragedy. No innocent bystander should become a victim, especially someone so young.
I heard that someone put up a fake facebook like half an hour after the event, making all sorts of nonsense posts about being a communist and and a democrat, and loving obama and pelosi. One of the news articles or the sherrif, I forget which, mentioned a facebook page that was taken down. Who would benefit by painting this man as a left wing extremist? Every right wing faction in the country.
Plus, the second suspect is an old white male. I know you can be old white and male and not be in the tea party, but when you're connected to the assassination attempt of a democratic congresswoman and a federal judge, while the main suspect spews right wing rhetoric, I don't think it's a stretch to say that at the very least he's an american "libertarian", while at worst being part of the tealiban.
It's starting to look like this guy is just really mentally ill and not a "teahadist" (which btw is a good meme). The whole thing just makes me angry though.
I can only repeat this: look at his YT videos. He is not left, not right. He has no politial motives, he is perfectly insane. He rambles about Mind Control by controlling the grammar, that everybody can create his own currency and grammar and other stuff that makes just no sense.
The way these videos are created show some relation to politics but overall it is just nuts. Nothing of any direction, just insanity.
On January 09 2011 16:04 Fenrax wrote: I can only repeat this: look at his YT videos. He is not left, not right. He has no politial motives, he is perfectly insane. He rambles about Mind Control by controlling the grammar, that everybody can create his own currency and grammar and other stuff that makes just no sense.
The way these videos are created show some relation to politics but overall it is just nuts. Nothing of any direction, just insanity.
He uses a lot of metaphors. given that you aren't a native speaker of english(if you're actually german) they were probably lost on you, even if you know english extremely well. That said, controlling people through control of language is an idea directly from 1984, which is the wet dream of dystopias for the far right. I don't think this guy is insane. I think he's pathetic and easily manipulated.
On January 09 2011 13:59 Silidons wrote: Terrorism: * the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear
sounds like terrorism to me
That wasn't the goal though? He disliked her & what she was doing => killed her. There was no overarching plan to instill fear in senators/democrats/etc. in order for them to do things his way.
On January 09 2011 13:59 Silidons wrote: Terrorism: * the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear
sounds like terrorism to me
The subtleties of the English Language are clearly lost upon you if you can mistake an assassination attempt for terrorism. You should punch all your English teachers in the neck. Clearly the goal was to kill important people, not instill fear by killing people, or he would have chosen easier people to kill.
While I'm generally more than happy to call out the American Right for the terrorists that they are, the american habit of calling all acts of violence "terrorism" is like a cancer remaining from the Neo-Con Bush administration. By labeling this as terrorism, you influence the way people approach it, and attempt to construe motive when you have no legitimate means of doing so.
do some research on newt gingrich and neurolinguistic programming (NLP) for some great information on how the right wing DOES use language to control people
On January 09 2011 13:59 Silidons wrote: Terrorism: * the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear
sounds like terrorism to me
The subtleties of the English Language are clearly lost upon you if you can mistake an assassination attempt for terrorism. You should punch all your English teachers in the neck. Clearly the goal was to kill important people, not instill fear by killing people, or he would have chosen easier people to kill.
While I'm generally more than happy to call out the American Right for the terrorists that they are, the american habit of calling all acts of violence "terrorism" is like a cancer remaining from the Neo-Con Bush administration. By labeling this as terrorism, you influence the way people approach it, and attempt to construe motive when you have no legitimate means of doing so.
i hear killing people who vote a certain way and believe a certain thing might have some chilling effects on others who are in similar ideological situations -- they may be more ... i dunno ... afraid? to cast that vote in the house next time...
furthermore, there is a disjunctive clause ("or") at the end there, so its not only by instilling fear can one be a terrorist.
On January 09 2011 16:26 annul wrote: do some research on newt gingrich and neurolinguistic programming (NLP) for some great information on how the right wing DOES use language to control people
Take our country back.
Take it back from who?
Who: The thing I fear, I add this myself, or allow the who to be supplanted by others.
Take it back: Aggressive words about reacquiring something. The implication is that something was mine, and it was lost. Aggression is obviously appropriate in this case, as I am a victim of theft.
So what is the appropriate amount of aggression? Picketing is ineffective, as popular sentiment has implied since the 60s. Perhaps violence will work?
Here's a single example of why the poster I just quoted is 100% correct.
Can we stop pretending we know everything please? A lot of you guys are coming off as unpleasant individuals.
By the way, here are a few things that some people might have missed.
8:11 PM ET Second Person Involved?
The Pima County sheriff's department says that a second person may have been involved in today's shooting. "We're not convinced that [Loughner] acted alone. There is some reason to believe he came to this location with another individual."
7:39 PM ET Suspicious Package At Giffords Office
According to KGUN: Giffords' Tucson office has been evacuated due to a suspicious package.
On January 09 2011 13:52 sekritzzz wrote: A funny comment from CNN. "President Barack Obama sent FBI Director Richard Mueller to help coordinate the joint investigation, which federal authorities stressed did not appear to have any connection to terrorism."
I wonder if an act of terrorism is only referred to as terrorism when its done by a specific group of people. Shooting political figures for their opinion seems like terrorism to me....
Terrorism is just a buzz word, otherwise every criminal, every parent, and figure of authority can fit the description of a terrorist. Ironically, the term has been used to scare you in to giving up things (you know, to protect you). It's no different than the use of the word 'Democracy' in politics and rhetoric where you believe you have a voice on the national level when in reality that's not how a 'Republic' works.
It's sad to see that such a tragic accident occurred; however, I wouldn't of been so sorrowful if there hadn't been any innocent bystanders injured or killed, but that doesn't mean I won't wish for her recovery for her family's sake as they don't deserve to be punished for the act of someone with a few screws loose. I don't have much respect for politicians, be they Republican or Democrat.
On January 09 2011 13:59 Silidons wrote: Terrorism: * the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear
sounds like terrorism to me
The subtleties of the English Language are clearly lost upon you if you can mistake an assassination attempt for terrorism. You should punch all your English teachers in the neck. Clearly the goal was to kill important people, not instill fear by killing people, or he would have chosen easier people to kill.
While I'm generally more than happy to call out the American Right for the terrorists that they are, the american habit of calling all acts of violence "terrorism" is like a cancer remaining from the Neo-Con Bush administration. By labeling this as terrorism, you influence the way people approach it, and attempt to construe motive when you have no legitimate means of doing so.
i hear killing people who vote a certain way and believe a certain thing might have some chilling effects on others who are in similar ideological situations -- they may be more ... i dunno ... afraid? to cast that vote in the house next time...
furthermore, there is a disjunctive clause ("or") at the end there, so its not only by instilling fear can one be a terrorist.
Yeah kind of like how iraq has something like 62% voter turn out in the last few elections. Our best was 63 in 1960, and it has declined steadily.
I guess turrurists don't stop elections much, do they?
Oh, good news. The gun used, assuming there's only one gunman, was purchased legally. So unless this kid bought it himself, it should lead to the other suspect, or at least a person of interest.
On January 09 2011 16:04 Fenrax wrote: I can only repeat this: look at his YT videos. He is not left, not right. He has no politial motives, he is perfectly insane. He rambles about Mind Control by controlling the grammar, that everybody can create his own currency and grammar and other stuff that makes just no sense.
The way these videos are created show some relation to politics but overall it is just nuts. Nothing of any direction, just insanity.
He uses a lot of metaphors. given that you aren't a native speaker of english(if you're actually german) they were probably lost on you, even if you know english extremely well. That said, controlling people through control of language is an idea directly from 1984, which is the wet dream of dystopias for the far right. I don't think this guy is insane. I think he's pathetic and easily manipulated.
Enlighten me, what does "create a new currency" mean?
On January 09 2011 11:52 Selith wrote: Generally in political spectrum, the more right one leans, the more controlling and more prone to use force to keep said control/order.
Julian Assange is one such example: People who want him dead, calling for his assassination and all others, when he has not committed any crime, are all right-wingers.
Is Hillary Clinton or Obama a right-winger? I'm pretty sure that they are the 2 people in the world most upset at this incident. Anyone pro big government is upset (neocons, big govn democrats) with assanage.
This thread has derailed into a "us" vs "them" thread when this is clearly an isolated incident. There is no conspiracy going on. Seriously everyone needs to chill.
On January 09 2011 16:04 Fenrax wrote: I can only repeat this: look at his YT videos. He is not left, not right. He has no politial motives, he is perfectly insane. He rambles about Mind Control by controlling the grammar, that everybody can create his own currency and grammar and other stuff that makes just no sense.
The way these videos are created show some relation to politics but overall it is just nuts. Nothing of any direction, just insanity.
He uses a lot of metaphors. given that you aren't a native speaker of english(if you're actually german) they were probably lost on you, even if you know english extremely well. That said, controlling people through control of language is an idea directly from 1984, which is the wet dream of dystopias for the far right. I don't think this guy is insane. I think he's pathetic and easily manipulated.
Enlighten me, what does "create a new currency" mean?
Create a currency that isn't the current one? One based on gold? It says that in his videos.
On January 09 2011 16:04 Fenrax wrote: I can only repeat this: look at his YT videos. He is not left, not right. He has no politial motives, he is perfectly insane. He rambles about Mind Control by controlling the grammar, that everybody can create his own currency and grammar and other stuff that makes just no sense.
The way these videos are created show some relation to politics but overall it is just nuts. Nothing of any direction, just insanity.
He uses a lot of metaphors. given that you aren't a native speaker of english(if you're actually german) they were probably lost on you, even if you know english extremely well. That said, controlling people through control of language is an idea directly from 1984, which is the wet dream of dystopias for the far right. I don't think this guy is insane. I think he's pathetic and easily manipulated.
Enlighten me, what does "create a new currency" mean?
Create a currency that isn't the current one? One based on gold? It says that in his videos.
That doesn't convince me that he's not insane at all.
You were talking about metaphors that I couldn't understand as a non native speaker. If currency means currency, then where are the metaphors?
On January 09 2011 13:59 Silidons wrote: Terrorism: * the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear
sounds like terrorism to me
The subtleties of the English Language are clearly lost upon you if you can mistake an assassination attempt for terrorism. You should punch all your English teachers in the neck. Clearly the goal was to kill important people, not instill fear by killing people, or he would have chosen easier people to kill.
While I'm generally more than happy to call out the American Right for the terrorists that they are, the american habit of calling all acts of violence "terrorism" is like a cancer remaining from the Neo-Con Bush administration. By labeling this as terrorism, you influence the way people approach it, and attempt to construe motive when you have no legitimate means of doing so.
"Easier" people to kill? It fucking seemed pretty damn easy to me, he fucking walked up and shot the fucking place, talk about an easy fucking kill.
He killed a fucking Democrat that just beat a Republican or Tea Partier whatever the hell he was, who was a god damn war veteran, and on a god damn popular website ran by yours truly Mrs. Palin, has multiple giant fucking cross-points over varies districts in the United States and it seems that you were even previously able to fire a M16 with her opponent that she beat?
Do I have to spell this shit out for you? Maybe you are an English major, but you sure as hell aren't a great puzzle-solver when the damn pieces are lying right in front of your face.
On January 09 2011 16:04 Fenrax wrote: I can only repeat this: look at his YT videos. He is not left, not right. He has no politial motives, he is perfectly insane. He rambles about Mind Control by controlling the grammar, that everybody can create his own currency and grammar and other stuff that makes just no sense.
The way these videos are created show some relation to politics but overall it is just nuts. Nothing of any direction, just insanity.
He uses a lot of metaphors. given that you aren't a native speaker of english(if you're actually german) they were probably lost on you, even if you know english extremely well. That said, controlling people through control of language is an idea directly from 1984, which is the wet dream of dystopias for the far right. I don't think this guy is insane. I think he's pathetic and easily manipulated.
Enlighten me, what does "create a new currency" mean?
Create a currency that isn't the current one? One based on gold? It says that in his videos.
That doesn't convince me that he's not insane at all.
You were talking about metaphors that I couldn't understand as a non native speaker. If currency means currency, then where are the metaphors?
He actually references currency twice, one as an example of free information, one as actual currency. Don't be offended by my saying you probably didn't pick up on some of them, I don't even get exactly what he's talking about.
Plus, conscious dreaming and "literate dreamers" are weird metaphors for those who are aware of the situation? like minded individuals. Trust me, I've talked to a lot of people into politics who talk like this guy, and they aren't insane.
On January 09 2011 16:04 Fenrax wrote: I can only repeat this: look at his YT videos. He is not left, not right. He has no politial motives, he is perfectly insane. He rambles about Mind Control by controlling the grammar, that everybody can create his own currency and grammar and other stuff that makes just no sense.
The way these videos are created show some relation to politics but overall it is just nuts. Nothing of any direction, just insanity.
He uses a lot of metaphors. given that you aren't a native speaker of english(if you're actually german) they were probably lost on you, even if you know english extremely well. That said, controlling people through control of language is an idea directly from 1984, which is the wet dream of dystopias for the far right. I don't think this guy is insane. I think he's pathetic and easily manipulated.
Enlighten me, what does "create a new currency" mean?
Create a currency that isn't the current one? One based on gold? It says that in his videos.
That doesn't convince me that he's not insane at all.
You were talking about metaphors that I couldn't understand as a non native speaker. If currency means currency, then where are the metaphors?
He actually references currency twice, one as an example of free information, one as actual currency. Don't be offended by my saying you probably didn't pick up on some of them, I don't even get exactly what he's talking about.
Plus, conscious dreaming and "literate dreamers" are weird metaphors for those who are aware of the situation? like minded individuals. Trust me, I've talked to a lot of people into politics who talk like this guy, and they aren't insane.
I don't know. His logic is so weird and flawed. But I agree that there was probably some kind political motivation behind it and that the guy is an extremist. Gifford was on Palin's hair cross because of the health reform and from what I can see in his videos he was probably extremely against any kind of governmental control.
But I also think that by ""consciense" dreaming" he actually means that. He might think that his imagination in his mind creates his reality. It was his way to escape the mind control and grammar control of the government/the "mind controller". So he is probably both, insane and extremist.
On January 09 2011 16:04 Fenrax wrote: I can only repeat this: look at his YT videos. He is not left, not right. He has no politial motives, he is perfectly insane. He rambles about Mind Control by controlling the grammar, that everybody can create his own currency and grammar and other stuff that makes just no sense.
The way these videos are created show some relation to politics but overall it is just nuts. Nothing of any direction, just insanity.
He uses a lot of metaphors. given that you aren't a native speaker of english(if you're actually german) they were probably lost on you, even if you know english extremely well. That said, controlling people through control of language is an idea directly from 1984, which is the wet dream of dystopias for the far right. I don't think this guy is insane. I think he's pathetic and easily manipulated.
Enlighten me, what does "create a new currency" mean?
Create a currency that isn't the current one? One based on gold? It says that in his videos.
That doesn't convince me that he's not insane at all.
You were talking about metaphors that I couldn't understand as a non native speaker. If currency means currency, then where are the metaphors?
He actually references currency twice, one as an example of free information, one as actual currency. Don't be offended by my saying you probably didn't pick up on some of them, I don't even get exactly what he's talking about.
Plus, conscious dreaming and "literate dreamers" are weird metaphors for those who are aware of the situation? like minded individuals. Trust me, I've talked to a lot of people into politics who talk like this guy, and they aren't insane.
I don't know. His logic is so weird and flawed. But I agree that there was probably some kind political motivation behind it and that the guy is an extremist. Gifford was on Palin's hair cross because of the health reform and from what I can see in his videos he was probably extremely against any kind of governmental control.
But I also think that by ""consciense" dreaming" he actually means that. He might think that his imagination in his mind creates his reality. It was his way to escape the mind control and grammar control of the government/the "mind controller". So he is probably both, insane and extremist.
well conscious dreamers is a term used to describe people who are blind to what is going on around them, so being conscious but essentially dreaming At least that's how I use it and have heard others use it. I don't deny the guy has to have a screw loose to do something like this, but I just can't jump on the insanity bandwagon to justify his actions.
On January 09 2011 16:04 Fenrax wrote: I can only repeat this: look at his YT videos. He is not left, not right. He has no politial motives, he is perfectly insane. He rambles about Mind Control by controlling the grammar, that everybody can create his own currency and grammar and other stuff that makes just no sense.
The way these videos are created show some relation to politics but overall it is just nuts. Nothing of any direction, just insanity.
He uses a lot of metaphors. given that you aren't a native speaker of english(if you're actually german) they were probably lost on you, even if you know english extremely well. That said, controlling people through control of language is an idea directly from 1984, which is the wet dream of dystopias for the far right. I don't think this guy is insane. I think he's pathetic and easily manipulated.
Enlighten me, what does "create a new currency" mean?
Create a currency that isn't the current one? One based on gold? It says that in his videos.
That doesn't convince me that he's not insane at all.
You were talking about metaphors that I couldn't understand as a non native speaker. If currency means currency, then where are the metaphors?
He actually references currency twice, one as an example of free information, one as actual currency. Don't be offended by my saying you probably didn't pick up on some of them, I don't even get exactly what he's talking about.
Plus, conscious dreaming and "literate dreamers" are weird metaphors for those who are aware of the situation? like minded individuals. Trust me, I've talked to a lot of people into politics who talk like this guy, and they aren't insane.
I don't know. His logic is so weird and flawed. But I agree that there was probably some kind political motivation behind it and that the guy is an extremist. Gifford was on Palin's hair cross because of the health reform and from what I can see in his videos he was probably extremely against any kind of governmental control.
But I also think that by ""consciense" dreaming" he actually means that. He might think that his imagination in his mind creates his reality. It was his way to escape the mind control and grammar control of the government/the "mind controller". So he is probably both, insane and extremist.
well conscious dreamers is a term used to describe people who are blind to what is going on around them, so being conscious but essentially dreaming At least that's how I use it and have heard others use it. I don't deny the guy has to have a screw loose to do something like this, but I just can't jump on the insanity bandwagon to justify his actions.
It is about understanding it, not about justifying it. I don't care if he sits the rest of his life in jail, in a mental asylum or if he gets executed.
But he refers to himself as a ""Conscience" Dreamer". He wouldn't do that if he thought that this means lack of understanding. In his mind only the dreamers understand what is going on. He also writes about how he is a sleepwalker and that a sleepwalker "performs motor acts while asleep" and that he is sleeping when he posted that youtube video and that he will be conscious dreaming again in a few days.
On January 09 2011 16:04 Fenrax wrote: I can only repeat this: look at his YT videos. He is not left, not right. He has no politial motives, he is perfectly insane. He rambles about Mind Control by controlling the grammar, that everybody can create his own currency and grammar and other stuff that makes just no sense.
The way these videos are created show some relation to politics but overall it is just nuts. Nothing of any direction, just insanity.
He uses a lot of metaphors. given that you aren't a native speaker of english(if you're actually german) they were probably lost on you, even if you know english extremely well. That said, controlling people through control of language is an idea directly from 1984, which is the wet dream of dystopias for the far right. I don't think this guy is insane. I think he's pathetic and easily manipulated.
Enlighten me, what does "create a new currency" mean?
Create a currency that isn't the current one? One based on gold? It says that in his videos.
That doesn't convince me that he's not insane at all.
You were talking about metaphors that I couldn't understand as a non native speaker. If currency means currency, then where are the metaphors?
He actually references currency twice, one as an example of free information, one as actual currency. Don't be offended by my saying you probably didn't pick up on some of them, I don't even get exactly what he's talking about.
Plus, conscious dreaming and "literate dreamers" are weird metaphors for those who are aware of the situation? like minded individuals. Trust me, I've talked to a lot of people into politics who talk like this guy, and they aren't insane.
I don't know. His logic is so weird and flawed. But I agree that there was probably some kind political motivation behind it and that the guy is an extremist. Gifford was on Palin's hair cross because of the health reform and from what I can see in his videos he was probably extremely against any kind of governmental control.
But I also think that by ""consciense" dreaming" he actually means that. He might think that his imagination in his mind creates his reality. It was his way to escape the mind control and grammar control of the government/the "mind controller". So he is probably both, insane and extremist.
well conscious dreamers is a term used to describe people who are blind to what is going on around them, so being conscious but essentially dreaming At least that's how I use it and have heard others use it. I don't deny the guy has to have a screw loose to do something like this, but I just can't jump on the insanity bandwagon to justify his actions.
It is about understanding it, not about justifying it. I don't care if he sits the rest of his life in jail, in a mental asylum or if he gets executed.
But he refers to himself as a ""Conscience" Dreamer". He wouldn't do that if he thought that this means lack of understanding. In his mind only the dreamers understand what is going on. He also writes about how he is a sleepwalker and that a sleepwalker "performs motor acts while asleep" and that he is sleeping when he posted that youtube video and that he will be conscious dreaming again in a few days.
Maybe he thinks of himself as someone who doesn't know what is happening? I really have no idea, given that he hasn't made any statements and nothing else has been said about him. From the information about him I'm guessing he's normal. Insane people don't tend to do well in public or with others.
On January 09 2011 13:59 Silidons wrote: Terrorism: * the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear
sounds like terrorism to me
The subtleties of the English Language are clearly lost upon you if you can mistake an assassination attempt for terrorism. You should punch all your English teachers in the neck. Clearly the goal was to kill important people, not instill fear by killing people, or he would have chosen easier people to kill.
While I'm generally more than happy to call out the American Right for the terrorists that they are, the american habit of calling all acts of violence "terrorism" is like a cancer remaining from the Neo-Con Bush administration. By labeling this as terrorism, you influence the way people approach it, and attempt to construe motive when you have no legitimate means of doing so.
"Easier" people to kill? It fucking seemed pretty damn easy to me, he fucking walked up and shot the fucking place, talk about an easy fucking kill.
He killed a fucking Democrat that just beat a Republican or Tea Partier whatever the hell he was, who was a god damn war veteran, and on a god damn popular website ran by yours truly Mrs. Palin, has multiple giant fucking cross-points over varies districts in the United States and it seems that you were even previously able to fire a M16 with her opponent that she beat?
Do I have to spell this shit out for you? Maybe you are an English major, but you sure as hell aren't a great puzzle-solver when the damn pieces are lying right in front of your face.
You're looking for connections that don't exist. I hate Palin and the entire Tea Party myself, but this guy was genuinely insane. If his theoretical accomplice sought to advance their own cause or that of the Tea Party/Palin by giving him a gun and a target, then it does certainly implicate them. Until we know whether or not this is the case, we can't pass judgment.
On January 09 2011 13:52 sekritzzz wrote: A funny comment from CNN. "President Barack Obama sent FBI Director Richard Mueller to help coordinate the joint investigation, which federal authorities stressed did not appear to have any connection to terrorism."
I wonder if an act of terrorism is only referred to as terrorism when its done by a specific group of people. Shooting political figures for their opinion seems like terrorism to me....
Terrorism is just a buzz word, otherwise every criminal, every parent, and figure of authority can fit the description of a terrorist. Ironically, the term has been used to scare you in to giving up things (you know, to protect you). It's no different than the use of the word 'Democracy' in politics and rhetoric where you believe you have a voice on the national level when in reality that's not how a 'Republic' works.
It's sad to see that such a tragic accident occurred; however, I wouldn't of been so sorrowful if there hadn't been any innocent bystanders injured or killed, but that doesn't mean I won't wish for her recovery for her family's sake as they don't deserve to be punished for the act of someone with a few screws loose. I don't have much respect for politicians, be they Republican or Democrat.
Or maybe it's someone whos goal is to inflict terror...
On January 09 2011 10:02 Warlike Prince wrote: "At least five other people, including members of her staff, were hurt."
If more citizens would walk around armed no nut job would ever get off more than a couple shots off. Protect your selves people, no one is gunna do it for you
If you're living in a society where, in order to be reasonably safe, you must be armed and ready to kill at a moments notice, you are not living in a civilized society!If you are living in a society where the only solution to curb violent maniacs is to yourself become a violent maniac, you are not living in a civilized society! Leave immediately for places where raving douchebags don't get to run around armed.
This is only one step up from the "State of Nature" or general anarchy.
Oh, and good job blaming the victims. Stay classy.
Cant believe you are calling people who act out in self defense violent maniacs. You are unhinged and need help
No, you just did not understand his post. Someone claimed, less people get killed by crazy people bearing arms when everyone else is armed and immediately shoots them. Considering that everyone bearing arms and being alert and ready to immediately shoot someone if need be can be considered crazy, his argument is quite consistent. Also, citizens bearing arms and killing crazy shoorts is self-justice and in states under the rule of law that is not permitted.
The problem is I should have the right not to bear arms and be reasonably safe.
I don't like the idea that all anyone with a gun has to do is pull a trigger in order to hurt me.
I also don't like the idea that all anyone with a gun has to do is pull a trigger in order to hurt me. unfortunately that is the laws of physics. All Any one with a car has to do is push a lever to hurt you.... etc. Well I guess they also have to find you... but you are in favor of living in a society correct?
I also don't like the idea that in order to protect myself I should have to buy an expensive weapon.
Seriously... you don't believe in police??? with police you are renting an expensive weapon.
To defend yourself against you fellow human beings you need weapons. Period. Now whether you wield those weapons yourself or trust someone else to do it for you (police/private security) is a choice you can make. I'm sure banks are pissed about having to hire expensive security guards too.
If you feel safe enough with the police, then you don't need to have a weapon, but if the police Don't give you enough safety then you can get one (and incidentally increase the safety of others if You yourself are not a threat... same as the police... more police is good for safety if the police themselves are not threats to safety)
I also don't like the idea that I can't do anything to protect myself against someone with a gun if I don't also have one, running just gets me shot in the back.
Now you tell me how the right to bear arms should supersede my right to personal safety.
The right to bear arms IS your right to personal safety
The police are there for society's safety as a whole not yours personally. (that's why they don't escort you to work every day.. and why there are more cops protecting the President than you, etc.)
Unfortunately you seemed to have missed a key word in each of my statements, "like". But whatever I acknowledge the reality we live in, luckily since I am fairly wealthy I don't have to deal with most of the violent parts of it.
Pertaining to the last statement, giving more people the ability to do harm doesn't seem to make us safer. However sometimes it does, until of course things go horribly wrong (cold war not turning out that way, yet). Anyways, we might as well arm everyone with nuclear weapons, it is along the same line, and has about the same effect. The crazy people use them to kill others, and the sane people try to use them to protect themselves, now of course we realize that not letting anyone have weapons is a whole lot safer, but most conservatives don't trust anyone with more power than themselves.
EPT
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But I doubt they will - they are too rational. They will comment on it, but I doubt they will blame anyone but the shooter and maybe co-conspirators.
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