EPTPros won't switch to SC2 becouse their skills will be wasted. I got bored of GSL, after season 2. 150 APM is the cap in sc2. In BW you will need 200-250 APM at least. You can easy see the skills in BW and it's alot hard to see the difference in Sc2.
GSL Popularity - Page 63
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AcOrP
Bulgaria148 Posts
Pros won't switch to SC2 becouse their skills will be wasted. I got bored of GSL, after season 2. 150 APM is the cap in sc2. In BW you will need 200-250 APM at least. You can easy see the skills in BW and it's alot hard to see the difference in Sc2. | ||
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mprs
Canada2933 Posts
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SmoKim
Denmark10305 Posts
On January 10 2011 06:51 mprs wrote: I'm assuming all the haters wern't watching the scReddit matches... most insane series, not 1, not 2, but 3 shit fucking long epic games damn im so happy i randomly tuned in | ||
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Inflexion
Canada560 Posts
On January 10 2011 06:51 mprs wrote: I'm assuming all the haters wern't watching the scReddit matches... I think a lot of games of ^ caliber will be played next season in GSL when the newer maps hit. The longer rush distances really make a HUGE difference in terms of how games turn out. If games like the one played between Morrow and KiwiKaki in scReddit happened mor, then there is no doubt that GSL popularity will go way up. | ||
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Xain
Canada94 Posts
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lowkontrast
United States855 Posts
On January 10 2011 02:21 Zoler wrote: You probably live on the countryside or something, like 99% of every young male knew of Starcraft Brood War.... and a great deal of them knew of the competetive aspect in Korea, to some level. New York City, not exactly the countryside, haha. | ||
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eloist
United States1017 Posts
On January 10 2011 06:51 mprs wrote: I'm assuming all the haters wern't watching the scReddit matches... Games outside of GSL (Europe/US) are somehow consistently better to spectate. | ||
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pzea469
United States1520 Posts
On January 10 2011 07:04 eloist wrote: Games outside of GSL (Europe/US) are somehow consistently better to spectate. People have already said that this is because they aren't as good(they make more mistakes so games become more unpredictable). I do think they are worse than the top gsl players, but i dont think theyre THAT much worse. But really i think it's because there is more money on the line on GSL and the people there are doing it for a living. So making a MS might be looked down upon by your own team or coach? These are just thoughts running through my head but im guessing what I've said might somewhat factor it...... idk | ||
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Krehlmar
Sweden1149 Posts
Maps/Macro in SC2 has sucked compared to SCBW (atleast from a korean perspective) This is evidently going to change, which is great. E-sports have never been bigger in Europa from what I'm experiencing (my girlfriend works with it on TV and there is interest for it) I dont think egaming will die, people will play games and the crowd will only grow. Sponsors know this, they might be hesitant to be the first ones out risking money and gaining little, but they know there is potentiall. Give it time and controll... no game is perfect from the start or sometimes even years after release: SC2 hasn't been perfect and I think that is why alot of people have shunned it. And I think alot of koreans feel it has been pushed upon an already working system... but Im no korean so I wouldnt know. Not worried about egaming, but I am worried about the people at GOMTv whom I think are doing a great job (blizzard made the shitty maps, not them). I hope they get the credit they deserve for driving esports forward. | ||
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Nutrilait
Canada15 Posts
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
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berestev
United States20 Posts
It seems to me that with the easier game mechanics, the pro players are getting slighly lazy. I started watching starcraft right before sc2 came out. However, I went and watched the games of good players like Jaedong, Flash, etc, to figure out what makes their play so amazing. It includes crazy micro, perfect macro, and good strategy, all while having to do millions of things at the same time. I have not seen the same type of play from anyone in SC2, even though it SHOULD be easier! (Actually, I saw a few games from oGsTheSTC that had nearly perfect gameplay, but of course he's not competing professionally). As soon as Boxer came into the scene, I was getting ready for some awesome marine or tank micro, as Boxer is well known for that, and instead, there's almost nothing spectacular about his play!!! FAKE Boxer (MarineKingPrime) seems that he has BETTER marine micro than BOXER himself! Where's the tank/medivac micro? Where is the marine/medic micro? Those things would STILL work in SC2. I saw games where a handful of marines takes down an entire base purely because of fantastic micro. Where is the perfect giant mutalisk ball of death? Why not have muta harass in 3 places at the same time since everything is easier? Here's my question: If the game is so much easier, why aren't the players paying more attention to the tiniest details to achieve perfection?! I see a few reasons for this - 1. Maps are small This means that you can perfect your harass micro all you want, and the opponent's army will walk over to your main base in 3 seconds flat and just kill you while A-moving. I do believe that GOMTV is realizing this. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=182734 The new maps are huge, which should allow for better, non-ALL-IN play. This would allow Terran and Protoss players to trade armies while having the time to build it back up before their opponent just walks over them. (Zergs rebuild much faster, so they do that already). 2. Players are "lazy" Now that you can group everything into 1 control group, players are doing just that. What happened to 1a2a3a4a?! Why can't players split up their armies to control them better? I know that players are working very hard, and I don't mean any disrespect. I just mean that they aren't putting as much thought into the mechanics because it seems to be 'easier'. 3. The game is too young I can't wait until the pro gamers figure out that the better strategy isn't "Oh I bet he won't see THIS 1 base timing attack coming", and play a GOOD normal game. Overall, I believe SC2 demands more perfection than BW. In BW, you can throw away a few units, and everything will be just fine. In SC2, there's no reason to have silly mistakes like bad rally points (which even NaDa did in his recent game). This is just my take on it and I apologize for anything offensive I may have said  | ||
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DerNebel
Denmark648 Posts
Macro is ridiculously easy compared to BW, and former BW pros are playing. Why is all this new time and excess APM not being put to use in microing the units perfectly? Boxer was amazing in BW, merely mediocre in SC2. My guess is all the slightly different 1/2 base timing attacks being ridiculously strong, because nobody has them ALL figured out yet. Forgg had weird timings and it was great to see (at least before he won that MSL and then slumped) in BW, but he also did more than just 1a2a3a into the enemy main and win. I, too, hope that the new maps will fix everything, but I am sceptical,.. Oh well, Proleague, MSL and OSL are still running, and I will be watching those over GSL any day a week. | ||
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abYsss
Germany26 Posts
In BW you had huge maps with so many possibilities to flank, you would have squads clashing all over the map, made it actually feel like an epic battle. In Starcraft 2 you will see 95% of the time 2 large groups clashing into each other, there are simply no other places to walk around your opponent. Only thing that happens from time to time is a small drop, anything else is just impossible to do. The only matchups which have produced really epic games so far are TvT and TvZ. In TvT positioning is so important that you can't effort to have all your units at one place. In TvZ Terran needs to play really stragegically to stand a chance in a macro games vs Zerg. Since Terrans are hard to break early as Zerg you will see lots of macro games here. Anything including Protoss seems to be very unsatisfying so far, all I see is one big Protoss blob all the time. To defeat that blob the opposing player has to form his own blob. > very unexciting to watch Unit control has become less important, what you need are the fitting units to counter your opponents units, which leads to most games becoming buildorder wins or losses due to bad managment. I don't mind seeing an allin here and there to keep things refreshing, but right now it's too viable and happens all the time. I can only hope that the new maps for the GSL will help out with that, they seem to encourage macro, which will help a lot in making the games more exciting to watch. | ||
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eloist
United States1017 Posts
[B] Anything including Protoss seems to be very unsatisfying so far, all I see is one big Protoss blob all the time. To defeat that blob the opposing player has to form his own blob. > very unexciting to watch That's why games with HTs are so good. | ||
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MamiyaOtaru
United States1687 Posts
Here's my question: If the game is so much easier, why aren't the players paying more attention to the tiniest details to achieve perfection?! The rock paper scissors nature of part of the game (the strength of 1 base builds and preponderance of build order wins) means there is no need to perfect the tiny things to get a tiny edge when you can try to shoot for the right build order that will give you a huge edge. That's just how it looks to me, as a fan. I'm no pro, but when talking about the popularity of the GSL, fans and what they think are implied  | ||
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goswser
United States3548 Posts
To make it even worse, collosi walk over the blob, so instead of seeing all of the units and small micro situations in a battle, you see part of a blob and lots of collosi, watch the hitpoints on the collosi go down, then at the end of the battle notice the size of the protoss' army, but can't observe the other units individually die if they are under the collosus, or, if you are the opposing player, micro or unit control against the units under the collosi. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
From the almighty Artosis himself: 1) Last season's finals was in the most remote part of Incheon City, an area which they are currently building up, and is completely deserted. I am absolutely flabbergasted that 1800 people actually showed up to that location. 2) Its actually around -15C in Seoul right now. I can't believe anyone's showing up to the early GSL rounds. 3) The area that the GSL studio is located in is actually terribly far away from the good areas of Seoul. To put this into perspective, the OGN studio (where OSL and half of ProLeague is taped) is in a hugely populated and popular area of Seoul. It is literally inside of a huge mall, which also happens to have a large hub train station in it. On the other hand, the MBC studio, which is always almost empty, is near the GSL studio. Location Location Location. Source: His Facebook page. http://i.imgur.com/mAYap.png Courtesy to Lucas12 on Reddit for bringing this Facebook post to light. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/ez9uh/artosis_explains_low_gsl_attendance/ I think most people are overreacting. Perhaps it is partially the game's fault, though we absolutely cannot be ignorant enough to say it is entirely the games fault. There are many other variables at work here. Also, does anyone think that Artosis's quote deserves its own thread? I feel that this thread has pretty much turned into SC2 vs BW bashing. | ||
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Kamikiri
United States1319 Posts
Most people are over reacting or using this as thier opportunity to bash sc2, the game is doing fine and will continue to grow it just takes time so chill everybody. | ||
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kirkybaby
Korea (South)781 Posts
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