EPT[D] Why is protoss doing so bad in the GSL? - Page 28
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SwaY-
Dominican Republic463 Posts
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Perscienter
957 Posts
On November 03 2010 00:48 Skyze wrote: You know one change that I thought really messed with everything, Sentry damage change. When Sentries did more damage, you actually had a better chance fighting off the crazy terran pushes. It made it so that even if you went 4-5 sentries (which are required, or you lose to mass marauder run up ramp), they still were useful AFTER the forcefield. Right now, You either choose to get stalker/zealot to deal damage (still kited and easily lost by insane concussive shells) or sentries to remain safe, but deal no damage.. Fix that and maybe protoss will have a bit more earlygame help, without affecting the lategame. That sentry change was actually a good one. It makes you think more about your unit composition. Caster units, which are also good fighters, will break the game. | ||
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Blacklizard
United States1194 Posts
On November 03 2010 00:48 Skyze wrote: You know one change that I thought really messed with everything, Sentry damage change. When Sentries did more damage, you actually had a better chance fighting off the crazy terran pushes. It made it so that even if you went 4-5 sentries (which are required, or you lose to mass marauder run up ramp), they still were useful AFTER the forcefield. Right now, You either choose to get stalker/zealot to deal damage (still kited and easily lost by insane concussive shells) or sentries to remain safe, but deal no damage.. Fix that and maybe protoss will have a bit more earlygame help, without affecting the lategame. I've been thinking about that nerf for a long time myself. It was huge and helped vs early Z and T aggression IMO (EDIT: what I mean to say is the damage lost was very helpful back then to balance against early T and Z. Losing it hurt P a lot). | ||
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SilverPotato
United States560 Posts
On November 03 2010 01:13 SwaY- wrote: And you know whats sad at the end of the day? Blizzards quote that protoss is too strong in lower leagues and is looking to nerf because of this. Also that they are looking at templar tech being too strong in one of the interviews... how hard can they nerf protoss into the ground? Not enough... Storm is stupid good late game. In fact its so hard to lose late game as Protoss its funny. | ||
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SwaY-
Dominican Republic463 Posts
On November 03 2010 01:21 SilverPotato wrote: Not enough... Storm is stupid good late game. In fact its so hard to lose late game as Protoss its funny. Then you prefer to have one race to be stupidly not viable in high end play? What good would that be in general to e-sports or the community? | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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shenzu88
48 Posts
On November 03 2010 01:21 SilverPotato wrote: Not enough... Storm is stupid good late game. In fact its so hard to lose late game as Protoss its funny. yes a t3, 12 minute research timing, spell should be worst.. how often do u see storm in tournys? like 20% of the time? | ||
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gdub
United States38 Posts
77 Terran 55 Toss 57 Zerg 11 Random Zerg are just starting to be more represented now that they've had a few weeks since their buff was implemented. Protoss on the other hand will just continue to be less represented as Zerg continue to rise to reflect their buff. This isn't a knock on Zerg. Secondly, consider that Blizzard has said the race played % is ~ 38% for Terran, ~38.5 for Protoss, and ~23.5 for Zerg (at least just prior to the Zerg buff patch). Still they only make up 27.5% of the top 200 (even with ~38.5% of people playing the race). AND, we can expect that to fall as Zerg gains more traction. Le Sigh... | ||
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SaDGoWu
United States133 Posts
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InFi.asc
Germany518 Posts
Caster units, which are also good fighters, will break the game. yeah imagine an invisible sniper being able to cast spells. what an outrage!! :D but on a serious note, I think it's okay that storm beats the sh** out of bio balls but it's a design flaw, as has been said before, that terrans don't have anything to transition into. I would love to fight something else than bio once in a while and praying you can survive for long enough to have a chance to win. | ||
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Perscienter
957 Posts
On November 03 2010 01:32 InFi.asc wrote: yeah imagine an invisible sniper being able to cast spells. what an outrage!! :D At the point in the game, where you build ghosts, it's only good in duals and not one of your main damage dealers of your bio ball for example. | ||
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gdub
United States38 Posts
At the point in the game, where you build ghosts, it's only good in duals and not one of your main damage dealers of your bio ball for example. but it can also be used for some sick harassment. you cant sneak a sentry into an opponents base, cloak and get multi kills before early in the game. | ||
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-{Cake}-
United States217 Posts
On November 03 2010 01:21 SilverPotato wrote: Not enough... Storm is stupid good late game. In fact its so hard to lose late game as Protoss its funny. So which race is the weakest at the moment? | ||
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freshjive
United States32 Posts
Roaches keep their range, and marauders aren't quite as effective without the stun packs making early pushes a bad idea. obviously this doesn't mean they are zeals are as fast as the legs upgrade, just marginally faster than they are now. stalkers you can now micro away from stimmed marines but still get caught by speedlings. I'VE SOLVED THE PUZZLE! | ||
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whomybuddy
United States620 Posts
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iSTime
1579 Posts
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cocosoft
Sweden1068 Posts
On November 02 2010 03:09 Protoss_Carrier wrote: + Show Spoiler + No protoss in GSL2 RO4, no protoss in GSL1 RO4 Dear templar brethrens What have you done for Aiur today? Tiny human in their big armor somehow as durable or more compared to our stalker made with millennial more advanced metallurgy, a lolcopter somehow able to fly in vaccum of scrap station with rotors and magically as destructive as our most advanced wrap blade, and the evil zerg somehow managed to spit their acid exactly one unit further since a few days ago. It's time to rise up and prove ourselves again. Maybe it's time to innovate and prove that us toss can indeed use the nydus canal. Rock on, brotosses. P.S. If you ever wonder you never see any command calling down a carrier for support, that's because those who did haven't been able to come back. So the fine art toi build carriers have been lost. EDIT: For the record, I do not think protoss is grossly underpowered, or at least I am not at a level where I can comment about the balance. I like to see units like carrier and mothership to be made more practical, and that's about it. I think play protoss requires a different scale set. Coming from a FPS back ground, you can't bitch about losing to one badly placed bullet. So I don't think the FF requirement is not that big of a problem. if a player can't master sentry FF, he's not a good P player. The beauty of starcraft is that each race requires a different skill set. P.S I am a P player. Hilarious! Love the IdrA reference xD. | ||
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Wrongspeedy
United States1655 Posts
On November 03 2010 01:21 SilverPotato wrote: Not enough... Storm is stupid good late game. In fact its so hard to lose late game as Protoss its funny. Too bad any good T or Z player will never let me get that far. They increased zealot build time, for no reason, other than idiots who play multiplayer and refuse to make anything but zealots (quite similar to the idiots who make nothing but lings or marines, who am I to judge though). Silver if you got HT against T or Z it must be cause they took a 5 min nap or something at the start of the game. Zerg owns the map vs Protoss now and makes it nearly impossible to expand, just by making lings and not letting you know how many (Prepare for lings, Die to Roaches, Prepare for Roaches, Die to Lings, Prepare for Mutas, Die to everything). Terran I don't think is in as a good a postion, but at the same time, there are a few Terran build orders that force the Protoss to respond or die (see ^ ZvP). So it all comes down to scouting and scouting early, which happens to be hardest as a Protoss player. Maybe I'm being a baby and just not finding creative solutions, though I really feel like I'm trying to do the latter. I'm willing to believe its possible I just suck at this game. But as I look through my replays and look at my position then look at my opponents it doesn't always add up, I can almost always pin a loss on some mistake I've made. But who says I couldn't find an equally egregious by my opponent, neatly covered by the fact that it just doesn't matter how many resources he wastes or lets build up. Anyways I hope this whole post doesn't just sound whiny, hopefully it just shows the frustration I have being a Protoss only 1v1 player right now. It just kind of feels a little helpless, you can only rearrange when you get your gates and your units so much (maybe thats my prob, not enough 4 gate!). Then a T just builds a bunch of barracks with reactors and clicks A till its a GG. I feel like a 1 base Protoss losing to a 2 Base Zerg, which also happens to feel like a 2 base Protoss losing to a 1 Base Terran. | ||
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Nazarid
United States445 Posts
On November 03 2010 02:06 Wrongspeedy wrote: Too bad any good T or Z player will never let me get that far. They increased zealot build time, for no reason, other than idiots who play multiplayer and refuse to make anything but zealots (quite similar to the idiots who make nothing but lings or marines, who am I to judge though). Silver if you got HT against T or Z it must be cause they took a 5 min nap or something at the start of the game. Zerg owns the map vs Protoss now and makes it nearly impossible to expand, just by making lings and not letting you know how many (Prepare for lings, Die to Roaches, Prepare for Roaches, Die to Lings, Prepare for Mutas, Die to everything). Terran I don't think is in as a good a postion, but at the same time, there are a few Terran build orders that force the Protoss to respond or die (see ^ ZvP). So it all comes down to scouting and scouting early, which happens to be hardest as a Protoss player. Maybe I'm being a baby and just not finding creative solutions, though I really feel like I'm trying to do the latter. I'm willing to believe its possible I just suck at this game. But as I look through my replays and look at my position then look at my opponents it doesn't always add up, I can almost always pin a loss on some mistake I've made. But who says I couldn't find an equally egregious by my opponent, neatly covered by the fact that it just doesn't matter how many resources he wastes or lets build up. Anyways I hope this whole post doesn't just sound whiny, hopefully it just shows the frustration I have being a Protoss only 1v1 player right now. It just kind of feels a little helpless, you can only rearrange when you get your gates and your units so much (maybe thats my prob, not enough 4 gate!). Then a T just builds a bunch of barracks with reactors and clicks A till its a GG. I feel like a 1 base Protoss losing to a 2 Base Zerg, which also happens to feel like a 2 base Protoss losing to a 1 Base Terran. QQ more? jk but seriously sounds like your haveing macro/map control issues, protoss can defend pretty much anything they want assuming the see it coming which is where map control comes in. As it sits Terran vs Toss <early game> the advantage goes to the Terran <mid-game> advantage goes to the Zerg<late game> Protoss become unstoppable..unless you make a huge mistake(like attacking out of position) | ||
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Nazarid
United States445 Posts
On November 03 2010 01:14 Perscienter wrote: i actually have an old replay of 40 sentries ripping apart an entire zerg army in seconds, Roaches lings mutas was Delicious and so i must completely agree that their nerf was well warranted they are still amazing units!! have you ever gained positional advantage on a zergs natural and then FF his ramp over n over while you kill his expo only to watch his hate chat sprawl across your screen? i have and its fun!I'd also like to see a gas nerf by 25 to the observer. Protoss has no scans and no overlords to sac. They are more dependant on them. Maybe nerf robo fac costs and hallu costs, too. That sentry change was actually a good one. It makes you think more about your unit composition. Caster units, which are also good fighters, will break the game. | ||
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