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I've been discussing this with few players on iCCup, because when I say I play both BW and SC2, I generally receive the "F*ck sc2" reply. I want to make this thread so that everyone here can list their pros and cons about BW and SC2.
no flame wars please
Here is what I think of both games
SC2:
+ Match making system
+ User interface
+ Mechanically easier
+ More beginner friendly
- Current balance between races
- Bnet 2.0 lacking (no chat channels, no replay sharing and many other minor details are lacking)
- Terrible ladder maps
- Cliche voice acting for most units
BW:
+ Brilliant balance between races
+ Maps
+ Races more aesthetically distinct from each other when playing (clear units and colours, no such mess as in sc2)
+ Maps
+ Great voice acting
+ Did I say maps?
- Pathing
- Unit control
- The UI needs an upgrade
- Compability problems
Overall I love both games equally, but I want to hear your opinions too. 
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Croatia9571 Posts
hmm, it'd be a nice experiment to post this same topic in both BW and SC2 section.
As for me, I don't know anything about SC2 so I can list only BW's pros and cons.
And as to keep this post short, I won't even bother with BW pros and only list cons:
- Incompatibility with Windows 7
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On October 12 2010 03:13 2Pacalypse- wrote:
hmm, it'd be a nice experiment to post this same topic in both BW and SC2 section.
As for me, I don't know anything about SC2 so I can list only BW's pros and cons.
And as to keep this post short, I won't even bother with BW pros and only list cons:
- Incompatibility with Windows 7
I'm not sure how many players in the SC2 section are familiar with BW, and I don't feel like spamming...
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broodwar has better graphics for an esports game, imo.
the ums scene flourishes better in bw, matchmaking is debatable, and sc2 is still quite often blob vs blob.
on that note, i hate win7 
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In my opinion some of the cons u listed for BW is what makes the game so great.
Oh and lack of chat rooms really suck T_T
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SC2 is pretty damn easy to play, although bnet sucks and it ruins BW playing ability.
BW, no real problems, except for the tendency of goons to be stupid when it really matters.
Honestly though, 'fuck sc2' is a pretty understandable sentiment. Especially with the Blizz-Kespa shit that's going on.
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Brood war has a much higher skill level required, is ultimately balanced by over powered units, and the UMS is better along with better Battle.net system. However the automated ladder in sc2 is quite fun and because it is easier and the graphics are so much ebtter.. It's quite a bit funner to actually play. The play level hasn't quite reached broodwar play so as a spectator sport the games aren't quite as interesting but much more so then any other game besides broodwar.
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I don't like sc2, though I don't see the point stating why, also I don't see the point explaining why i love bw, so I'm just gonna say what i don't like.
I believe siege tank deal too much damage, particularly with the upgrades, it should have been nerf, it would have made players such as Flash, iloveoov or even Nada more interesting to watch and lessen Terran domination.
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I'd add + for BW that battles last for a perfect amount of time (strikes the middle ground between WC3's long drawn out battles and SC2's 2 second battles) and that the units in BW have much more variation in the way they can be used - that is to say, how many different ways can you use a roach compared to the depth of using a lurker or using MM? Likewise, I find BW much more entertaining because of the depth of the control, in that, for example, mutalisk micro is far better to watch and play with than only the 1a/kite that you can do in SC2.
Also (I know some SC2 player will bring this up), regarding the "lack of creativity" in BW, that's a complete fallacy stemming from the fact SC2 has WILDLY different builds: it's much harder to spot new builds in BW because what changes is the timings of attack; the same will happen with SC2 when builds become standard.
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On October 12 2010 03:17 Lightwip wrote:
SC2 is pretty damn easy to play, although bnet sucks and it ruins BW playing ability.
BW, no real problems, except for the tendency of goons to be stupid when it really matters.
Honestly though, 'fuck sc2' is a pretty understandable sentiment. Especially with the Blizz-Kespa shit that's going on.
Yeah, I like the conga line AI, but hate the large unit AI (dragoons, goliaths, tanks, sometimes ultras), they tend to get stuck in everything.
In SC2, I hate how easy everything is to do. Everyone and their mothers could kite with EVERY SINGLE UNIT, throw down >9000 storms at once and forcefield an entire army. Instead of respecting the opponent in BW who storms my entire army, kites my MnM with dragoons and snipes my entire mineral line with mutas while losing nothing, I'm left extremely annoyed in SC2 whenever reapers ez kite zealots, when someone throws down 5 storms or when someone forcefields the entire screen. Even when I'm the one doing it.
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- Current balance between races
- Bnet 2.0 lacking (no chat channels, no replay sharing and many other minor details are lacking)
- Terrible ladder maps
- Cliche voice acting for most units
1) You would have said BW was imbalanced if you saw it 1 patch in. Obviously when comparing games, you have to compare them in the same stage. However, when figuring out how to spend your time, you can't really do that. So yes, BW wins in this department. But give it time.
2) I agree, but there will be chat channels this patch in december.
3) BW had the absolute worst ladder maps in the world. Wait till Korean map makers get started.
4) This point seems so out of place in the grand scheme of things. Also is it cliche because they copied BW?
Just some thoughts, not really arguing either way. But did you really need to mention maps in 3 different points? Its like the most invalid point because the BW maps were horrible. Blood bath anyone?
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This thread is surely gonna atract some hate from one or other side. You listed pathing and unit control as cons for brood war and i would list that as pros.
BW +
- easy distinguishable graphics makes for great playing experience
- great sounds
- mechanically exhausting and great micro availability
- highly attractive for spectating
- maps variability
BW -
- build orders and strategy set that it is hard to come up with new strategies that won't be beaten by high standard that is set nowadays
- battle net issues (iccup only place where you can play with lan latency)
- no competitive foreign scene anymore
SC2 +
- tournaments and sponsoring = money
- new game so you can come up with your own strategies and experiment a lot
- still in developping stage, expansions will come out
SC2 -
- MBS, automine, smartcasting
- graphics bad for competitive playing
- battle net 2.0
- bad for spectating if you compare to bw
- blob vs blob fights
- sounds
- boring
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I don't like the graphics in sc2. Not very spectator friendly. There's no sweet micro like in BW, the sc2 engine doesn't allow for it. For good maps to appear in sc2 we first have to get rid of that horrible ladder/custom map sytem
No cons for BW. Well it's fuckn hard but that's what i love about it.
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On October 12 2010 03:31 mprs wrote:
- Current balance between races
- Bnet 2.0 lacking (no chat channels, no replay sharing and many other minor details are lacking)
- Terrible ladder maps
- Cliche voice acting for most units
1) You would have said BW was imbalanced if you saw it 1 patch in. Obviously when comparing games, you have to compare them in the same stage. However, when figuring out how to spend your time, you can't really do that. So yes, BW wins in this department. But give it time.
2) I agree, but there will be chat channels this patch in december.
3) BW had the absolute worst ladder maps in the world. Wait till Korean map makers get started.
4) This point seems so out of place in the grand scheme of things. Also is it cliche because they copied BW?
Just some thoughts, not really arguing either way. But did you really need to mention maps in 3 different points? Its like the most invalid point because the BW maps were horrible. Blood bath anyone?
I agree, the game is still young, but it is no excuse to exclude these facts. They remain as cons until they are improved.
The whole voice acting thing is pretty subjective, but when I compare them between BW and SC2, I notice the BW ones had much more character input while the SC2 voices remain quite ordinary and "hollywood". That is however, just my opinion and that is why I named this thread "Your pros and cons"
On October 12 2010 03:34 Ricjames wrote:
You listed pathing and unit control as cons for brood war and i would list that as pros.
It depends where we draw the "line", we could make it so that you could only control 1 unit at a time and return each mineral manually, and claim it makes the game more "pro". I feel that the less we allow units to be controlled, the more dexterity the game requires in order to execute your plans, and too much dexterity is not too good either because then the players to win will mostly often be always the ones with huge hand skills, rather than those with good decision making.
On October 12 2010 03:38 Raiden X wrote:
Yeah in SC2 so many aanimations are going on and how things bunch into giant blobs of Death make it less appealing to watch then BW. Don't get me wrong love the graphics.
Just hate how everything just groups in a ball.
In BW the 200 armies seemed massive because they were spread out, but in SC2 they seem so small since the bunch and when they fight all you see in explosions and lasers and you have no clue whats going on
THIS ALSO
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On October 12 2010 03:31 mprs wrote:
- Current balance between races
- Bnet 2.0 lacking (no chat channels, no replay sharing and many other minor details are lacking)
- Terrible ladder maps
- Cliche voice acting for most units
1) You would have said BW was imbalanced if you saw it 1 patch in. Obviously when comparing games, you have to compare them in the same stage. However, when figuring out how to spend your time, you can't really do that. So yes, BW wins in this department. But give it time.
2) I agree, but there will be chat channels this patch in december.
3) BW had the absolute worst ladder maps in the world. Wait till Korean map makers get started.
4) This point seems so out of place in the grand scheme of things. Also is it cliche because they copied BW?
Just some thoughts, not really arguing either way. But did you really need to mention maps in 3 different points? Its like the most invalid point because the BW maps were horrible. Blood bath anyone?
BW + SC had 4 balance patches in total to get to the point today. Bloodbath is also a terrible example, it spawned a small scene centered around the map.
The sound effects aren't great for clarity in SC2, I have no issues with the voice acting though.
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On October 12 2010 03:15 seRapH wrote:broodwar has better graphics for an esports game, imo. the ums scene flourishes better in bw, matchmaking is debatable, and sc2 is still quite often blob vs blob. on that note, i hate win7
Yeah in SC2 so many aanimations are going on and how things bunch into giant blobs of Death make it less appealing to watch then BW. Don't get me wrong love the graphics.
Just hate how everything just groups in a ball.
In BW the 200 armies seemed massive because they were spread out, but in SC2 they seem so small since the bunch and when they fight all you see in explosions and lasers and you have no clue whats going on
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pros for bw:
scourge hiting vessels, (o god love that sound)
hydras, reavers, better maps, iccup ladder system (even though i sucked), i have more fun watching pro sc1 than pro sc2, reavers, archons, reavers
pros for sc2:
prettier, more fun to play because i dont get roflstomped quite as easily, warp prisms, smartcasting makes casters usable for bad people like me, i can try to do less standard strats without being ruined, i dont have to remember ridiculous rules to forge fe lol
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huh?
on my laptop win 7, starcraft works perfectly fine
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I honestly don't believe broodwar had any real cons. I honestly don't. I played it for 5-6 years and still play it now occasionally.
SC2 Pros: Can pick up and play pretty much, hard to get rusty even when I haven't played for 2-3 weeks.
Cons: Not nearly as addictive as broodwar, hard to sit down and grind the ladder, espescially with no chat channels or replay sharing.
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Canada8036 Posts
Pathing in SC2 is greatly improved from BW. There's no disputing that. However, the side effect of this is that everything tends to move around in a ball. In BW, moving units usually travel in a conga line. While this can be annoying as hell sometimes, it actually helps establish a decent concave if you move your units parallel to the opposing army, then attack into them. Still, when transferring probes, I can't help but get annoyed when they run into some odd corner before finally heading to their destination.
It's odd, really. The broken pathing work quite well for BW, but would suck in SC2. Imagine SC2 ultras with BW dragoon AI. Shit would be hilarious.
The UI in BW is quite limited, but overall, it's not bad for the game. Having a limit to the number of units per group stops muta stacks from becoming too stupidly powerful. The lack of smartcast means that casting storm requires more skill, which is good considering its damage output in BW.
I like the graphics in BW better than the graphics SC2, but that might just be nostalgia talking.
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EPT
