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Stop saying "I'm rank 5 platinum". - Page 8

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CagedMind
Profile Joined February 2010
United States506 Posts
May 07 2010 22:23 GMT
#141
Well before recent reset I could say I was in division 7 ranked 3rd which meant a little something. Now in div 40 something and doesn't matter what rank I am wouldn't be hard at all to get rank first.
your micro has been depleted
Failsafe
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States1298 Posts
May 07 2010 22:23 GMT
#142
i'm top 5 platinum and i'm not sure that i support what you're trying to do here. if blizzard wanted it to work in a sensible way they probably wouldn't have designed the ladder like they did.
MrBitter: Phoenixes... They're like flying hellions. Always cost efficient.
jimbobdwayne
Profile Joined March 2010
United States53 Posts
May 07 2010 23:03 GMT
#143
Thanks for making this thread. Hopefully we can keep it at the top long enough to weed out the people that keep using the rank # on TL.
Make it as simple as possible but not simpler.
Vei
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2845 Posts
May 07 2010 23:08 GMT
#144
Is 1500 really not good? I imagine you must be a solid player.
www.justin.tv/veisc2 ~ 720p + commentary
Sansucal
Profile Joined October 2007
Germany259 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-07 23:15:22
May 07 2010 23:14 GMT
#145
the whole 39483849958 divisions system sucks imho becouse it doesn't say much about your real ranking.
Vei
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2845 Posts
May 07 2010 23:16 GMT
#146
On May 08 2010 07:23 Failsafe wrote:
i'm top 5 platinum and i'm not sure that i support what you're trying to do here. if blizzard wanted it to work in a sensible way they probably wouldn't have designed the ladder like they did.

uhhh can you plz take a moment and think, the OP is 100% objectively right :|
www.justin.tv/veisc2 ~ 720p + commentary
Vei
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2845 Posts
May 07 2010 23:19 GMT
#147
On May 08 2010 03:08 deo1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2010 02:36 Chill wrote:
i agree but i dont think you need to make a thread about this/


Of course you don't.

Why is it not necessary to make a thread that clears up a huge misconception about how SC2 ladder works when ladder is the only basis for gauging someone's skill that we have, outside of playing several games against someone?
www.justin.tv/veisc2 ~ 720p + commentary
Issor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States870 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-07 23:26:48
May 07 2010 23:24 GMT
#148
Let me just restate this: A division of higher number is in NO WAY indicative of the skill level of the division in comparison to one of a lower number. People are added to divisions RANDOMLY(or perhaps chronologically - i think this is the case) and new ones are created when the need for a new division arises. If you're in a higher-numbered division, that means ONLY that you qualified later than people who are in lower number divisions.

The division system is a sample of the entire population of the league in which you place. This means that your rank in your division is, OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, indicative of your rank as a whole compared to everyone in your division by PERCENTILE.

That means if you play 300 games and you're rank 89 in your division... You're as good as 89% of the other people in your league.

I'm not sure if that wording was really very clear. What I mean to say is that someone who, over time, becomes #1 and holds it is very likely in the top 1% of the league as a whole, and someone who is consistently and over time rank #2 is very likely in the top 2%, etc. The division system is NOT perfect, but it is a MUCH better indicator of actual skill than a more traditional "everyone's in the same ladder" style of ranking.

Edit: I suppose this means that, over many many many thousands of games played (in total - perhaps a few hundred per person), division rank is in fact a VERY good indicator of skill. For now, though, due to the small population size (relative to the number of people that will play when the game is released) and constant ladder resets, rating IS a better indicator of skill.
ColorsOfRainbow
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany354 Posts
May 07 2010 23:29 GMT
#149
yes so stupid 1. division 70 is 1200 point and 10. in division 2 is 1900 ... its so useless say a rank ...
Issor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States870 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-07 23:31:33
May 07 2010 23:29 GMT
#150
What?

edit: Oh. I see what you're saying.

As I said, the division are created chronologically and so division 70 is newer than anything with a lower number - given time (and a large volume of games played), the ranks will be the same rating and will be comparable to each other - div 70 rank 1 will be very near to the skill level of division 1 rank 1.
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
May 07 2010 23:32 GMT
#151
Technically rating is no better for comparisons between divisions than ranking.

Granted, I am assuming that this rating system works vaguely similarly to ELO systems or Blizzard's arena system (from what I've seen at least, it operates much as I would expect it to in the arena system).

Given that assumption, ratings will be inflated in divisions with higher than average populations relative to those with lower than average. A rating of 1500 in a division with 100 people is worth a lot more than a rating of 1800 in a division with 500. This is especially true with the bonus pool system, which is in effect guaranteeing that all players will increase in rating unless they manage less than 50% wins for a long stretch of time.
Like a G6
RumZ
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States956 Posts
May 07 2010 23:32 GMT
#152
There should be an announcement to community.

"ELO =/= DIVISION RANK."
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
May 07 2010 23:32 GMT
#153
On May 08 2010 02:36 FortuneSyn wrote:
It's a much better indication, but 1400 plat div54 still does not equal 1400 plat div1.


More or less it does. The matchup system does not take your division into account.
Issor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States870 Posts
May 07 2010 23:32 GMT
#154
On May 08 2010 08:32 kzn wrote:
Technically rating is no better for comparisons between divisions than ranking.

Granted, I am assuming that this rating system works vaguely similarly to ELO systems or Blizzard's arena system (from what I've seen at least, it operates much as I would expect it to in the arena system).

Given that assumption, ratings will be inflated in divisions with higher than average populations relative to those with lower than average. A rating of 1500 in a division with 100 people is worth a lot more than a rating of 1800 in a division with 500. This is especially true with the bonus pool system, which is in effect guaranteeing that all players will increase in rating unless they manage less than 50% wins for a long stretch of time.


Isn't the population cap for every division 100?
stork4ever
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1036 Posts
May 07 2010 23:38 GMT
#155
you should state rank and elo, you earned that rank there is nothing wrong with stating it, but also state your elo and your win/loss, but in the end its all numbers, I say challenge everyone you disagree with on a strat to 1v1, decide our e-**** on the field.
deth
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Australia1757 Posts
May 07 2010 23:53 GMT
#156
I've been using my rating in posts for a month now, unless I am required to give my division rank. It is a clearer indication of skill because when you say "lol im rank 1 div 85" you could be anywhere from 1500-2100 points
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
May 07 2010 23:55 GMT
#157
On May 08 2010 08:32 Issorlol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2010 08:32 kzn wrote:
Technically rating is no better for comparisons between divisions than ranking.

Granted, I am assuming that this rating system works vaguely similarly to ELO systems or Blizzard's arena system (from what I've seen at least, it operates much as I would expect it to in the arena system).

Given that assumption, ratings will be inflated in divisions with higher than average populations relative to those with lower than average. A rating of 1500 in a division with 100 people is worth a lot more than a rating of 1800 in a division with 500. This is especially true with the bonus pool system, which is in effect guaranteeing that all players will increase in rating unless they manage less than 50% wins for a long stretch of time.


Isn't the population cap for every division 100?


Oh. Well in that case ratings are rather more comparable, but there's still the possible issue of different divisions being full of much higher quality players than another.

Basically divisions by their very nature cast doubt on rating comparisons. The pop cap removes most of the issue though.
Like a G6
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
May 07 2010 23:58 GMT
#158
On May 08 2010 04:04 BlasiuS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2010 03:57 Chriamon wrote:
none of the beta rankings/ratings matter. Bonus pool causes so much inflation of points. They need to get rid of bonus pool and go to a straight up ELO system.


here's another common mistake I see all the time.

Bonus pool doesn't cause any inflation:

Show nested quote +
On May 06 2010 07:41 BlasiuS wrote:

The bonus pool doesn't cause inflation. It's for people who don't start laddering until late in the season, to catch up with people who have been massgaming since day 1.

your rating should be determined by skill, not by how early in the season you decided to start massgaming =/ That's the whole reason why the bonus pool exists.

The bonus pool is also arguably there to combat one of the problems in WoW, which was that those at the top of the ladder would stop playing more than the minimum number of games, for fear of losing their current rating. The bonus pool combats this by letting a player who's using up his bonus pool steadily edge out a player who isn't playing games. For example, if two players have leveled out at the same rating, but one is playing more games, the one who is using up his bonus pool will steadily pull ahead in rating, because even though he's not gaining win/loss points faster, he's using up more of his bonus pool.
Moderator
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
May 07 2010 23:58 GMT
#159
On May 08 2010 08:32 kzn wrote:
Given that assumption, ratings will be inflated in divisions with higher than average populations relative to those with lower than average. A rating of 1500 in a division with 100 people is worth a lot more than a rating of 1800 in a division with 500. This is especially true with the bonus pool system, which is in effect guaranteeing that all players will increase in rating unless they manage less than 50% wins for a long stretch of time.


No.

Divisions are capped at 100. But it would not matter if they weren't; no one is confined to playing only people in their own division. I doubt that what division players are in even factors into matchmaking.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Sentient
Profile Joined April 2010
United States437 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-08 00:01:07
May 07 2010 23:59 GMT
#160
On May 08 2010 08:24 Issorlol wrote:
The division system is a sample of the entire population of the league in which you place. This means that your rank in your division is, OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, indicative of your rank as a whole compared to everyone in your division by PERCENTILE.

That means if you play 300 games and you're rank 89 in your division... You're as good as 89% of the other people in your league.

This post makes me wonder: Why doesn't Blizzard list your percentile for both your league only and all leagues combined. A player could see he or she is rank #3 platinum, 95%ile overall, but only 50%ile for platinum league. It would make this whole mess a lot better overnight. By listing percentiles, you avoid the despair of seeing #13525/1345829 total players, and the system still has the intended psychological effect of competing out of 100 people.
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