EPTPvZ Z is favored from beginning to end. Z can open with so many options - lings, banelings, roaches, hydras, mutas, or any combination of them. P can't scout them until observer is out so it's too hard to react. Mid game is okay, but Z will probably secure an advantage from early game, so it probably won't be in P's favor. Late game = broodlords.
Balance, matchups and the hardest race? - Page 4
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
PvZ Z is favored from beginning to end. Z can open with so many options - lings, banelings, roaches, hydras, mutas, or any combination of them. P can't scout them until observer is out so it's too hard to react. Mid game is okay, but Z will probably secure an advantage from early game, so it probably won't be in P's favor. Late game = broodlords. | ||
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Koffiegast
Netherlands346 Posts
2. TvP T if he goes bio, if mech and P deals with it P will win, so about 50-50, PvZ, I'd say 70-30 (people cry for mass mutas and/or broodlords, but timing push is so devastating for Z), ZvT, 30-70, ravens just kill anything, people cry for nerf for the broodlords but thats basically all the Z has left... it's amazing and rediculous at the same time when you see 4-5 ravens kill tons of Z units within a couple secs and Z losing the game as he can only mass units and still might lose the game even when he has 3 more bases than T. 3. Easiest to play Z 4. Easiest to play and actually win the game, T. | ||
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
I think a better way to phrase it instead of "favored" is "which is more developed in XvX"... I can see a lot of bans stemming from this thread ;P | ||
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Ideas
United States8097 Posts
On April 20 2010 05:10 zomgzergrush wrote: Even though I don't believe in favoritism, I do like to see what the general consensus is. I am very surprised that Z got the "easiest race" vote over P. Then again, who knows how many P or Z players actually voted there... I think a better way to phrase it instead of "favored" is "which is more developed in XvX"... I can see a lot of bans stemming from this thread ;P how is protoss any easier than zerg? it requires more micro AND has harder macro. | ||
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goswser
United States3519 Posts
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
Terran is a close second for this, but my god zerg is like three times as easy to play (never go back to your base for macro, no spellcasters so you just 1a to victory, queen mechanic completely removes the tension between building drones or army units) | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
As far as micro, I really don't find sentry micro incredibly stimulating. Yes sentry micro cutting forces in half is nice and all but I don't feel that it outweighs the fact that P units still are incredibly tough and well...don't ever die to one hit. To anything. Took an extra hit? That's okay it's still shields. Compared to: Took an extra hit? Too bad the units are dead now. Knew this thread was gonna open quite the can of worms. | ||
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ColorsOfRainbow
Germany354 Posts
2. Which race is favored in which matchup? PvT, ZvT, TvZ 3. What is the easiest race to play? P? T? Z? 1. ZERG 2. Z>P, T>P, Z>T 3. Z/P | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On April 20 2010 01:50 Antimage wrote: If they use their gas on mutas, it means they won't have gas for roaches hydras. Which means they'll be reliant on spine crawlers/zerglings, which can be completely negated with blink stalkers or a well microed immortal push. If they mass lots and lots of spine crawlers to make it impossible to push in, then you can do the same, cannon up and get blink stalkers to fight those mutas. Once you have an ob in their base, you can get blink stalkers up into their main before they have a critical mass of mutas. I truly believe phoenixes are NOT the answers to a mass muta zerg player, but a mass muta strategy is very susceptible to timing hits on their main like using blink stalkers or elevator tactics with the warp prism. My suggestion is for you guys to stop opening up stargate in all your PvZ's - a surprise tactic works once in a while, but you can't hope to win your games like that. EDIT: oh wow i mentioned blink stalkers a lot didn't I ... well I think I got the point across. The thing is, I rarely ever open with stargate. I only do so on maps with short air rush where void rays can still do some damage. The issue is that you need something like 1.5-2 stalkers for every muta the zerg brings. In addition, as the muta mass grows, the need for sentry's guardian shield grows as well. What many zergs do is they force you to build a good number of stalkers in order to counter their mutas and while they keep you in your base through muta harassment, they can either choose to tech, build more mutas, or expand. You as the Protoss player are forced to stay in your base and defend. You can't execute an immortal push because mutas shut down immortals. Additionally, on certain maps, like DO and scrap station, it's extremely hard to move your stalkers back and forth between your main and natural, so the muta harass is pretty much guaranteed several probe kills. Countering mutas for Protoss is extremely reliant on scouting. As soon as you scout the Spire being put down you need to immediately start building stalkers and sentries. A slight delay for whatever reason will pretty much cost you the game. Defending against mutas can be done. It's not impossible by any means, but it's just very hard to deal with. Furthermore, once Zerg reaches a large enough mass of mutas, it becomes pretty much impossible to stop them with stalkers and sentries due to the bounce attack despite using guardian shield; hence me saying that it is absolutely imperative that you are able to whittle down the muta numbers one by one every time Zerg harasses. | ||
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BillyMole
United States118 Posts
On April 19 2010 23:57 Brucy wrote: + Show Spoiler + Exactly what I was thinking.. Automatically responding with Z when u see who is the most powerful ftl. Both of you chose to selectively edit the quote. That sentence actually reads : At low-level play I'd say Zerg is probably the most powerful. The entire paragraph before that was me saying Protoss is the most powerful at high level play. The matchups were written from a high-level play perspective. If I tailor them to low level play, Zerg crushes both of the other races fairly easily, since nobody has the micro needed to make Protoss nor Terran armies decent. I would appreciate it if you responded to statements within context, rather than selectively editing and inferring contradictions that did not exist in the original post. | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On April 20 2010 05:40 -orb- wrote: I don't see how anyone could possibly vote for protoss being the easiest race to play when protoss has the toughest mechanics out of all three races. Terran is a close second for this, but my god zerg is like three times as easy to play (never go back to your base for macro, no spellcasters so you just 1a to victory, queen mechanic completely removes the tension between building drones or army units) which mechanics do you mean? warpgates? dont think they are hard to use at all esp considering how powerful they are. only crono boost needs quite some attention to use well. imho lots of it comes from 3 things: 1. P can just go warpgate/robo in all matchups and be perfectly fine/pressure alot. p atm rarely has to adapt much. the enemy adapts to what P does. 2. standart gateway units cover almost ervything the other races can throw at you esp early.there is no weakness and if there is one -> forcefield and wait it out. 3. besides forcefield/storm (which are easy to use with smart casting) P can just aclick and do super fine. while Z/T have to fight for position,focus stuff and overall has to fight harder to beat a equal P army the p mostly just has to make sure his collosi arent out in the open. i dont say P is the easiest and i dont say there isnt much more p can do. i just say i can see where the mindset comes from. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
2843 Posts
I think Zerg has the greatest macro potential. And therefore they'll be determined as the 1a/2a race. But it isn't all true. Zerg has to deal with a lot of bullshit, and has the most difficult time cheesing (the only real cheese I can think of is all in speed ling, but you can't hide that). So, although they can macro up and out-expand the best, they fall short in other areas. To answer the real question, though, I think the races are fairly balanced. Some tweaks here and there are of course necessary, but nothing really stands out as a 1a/2a or severely micro intensive race. Other people's opinions notwithstanding. :O | ||
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RogerChillingworth
2843 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
I hope we can get some up-to-date votes (we've learned more since beta) based on the current situation. I'm curious whether polls will be as they're now or they'll change.  | ||
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Dsn4001
Korea (South)106 Posts
SILLY ME FOR NOT CHECKING DATE | ||
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rS.Sinatra
Canada785 Posts
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Knutzi
Norway664 Posts
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Heyoka
Katowice25012 Posts
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