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![[image loading]](http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq251/hazelynut/cslbanner-1.jpg)
COLLEGIATE STARLEAGUE FALL 2009
Welcome to the second season of CSL! I bet you’ve been waiting for the new season to kick off, and we’re finally getting underway! Registration will start anew this fall, so here’s all the information you need to get ready for the next season.
History
Spring '09 Season 1: University of California at Berkeley > University of Texas
Eligibility
Any school in the United States or Canada is eligible to participate in CSL. Each team must have at least 5 players, with one designated coordinator responsible for submitting match lineups and results. In order to be eligible, players must have an email address connected to their school (Ex. PlayerName@SchoolName.edu). Players must be currently enrolled for the institution they are playing for.
Registration:
Registration for School Coordinators will take place from September 1 to September 11. Coordinators must provide a valid email address tied to their institution that will be posted on the CSL website for public viewing. Should more than one student register as a coordinator from a single institution, all prospective coordinators from that institution will be contacted to clarify who will be the primary coordinator for the Fall season. Should they not come to a consensus, the student who registered first will be designated coordinator from that school. From September 12-25, students will be allowed to register for a team on the CSL website. Again, participants must provide a valid email address, but they will have the option of hiding it from public view.
The registration link is http://cstarleague.org/register.
There will be a registration fee due by October 2. The fee is $5 per person on the team. If a team has more than 10 players, the fee will be $50 regardless of the number of players. A registered team who has not paid will be unable to participate in this season's CSL until the fee is paid.
Teams:
As stated above, teams must consist of at least 4 players with a valid email address and one designated coordinator. Each team should designate a team tag, to be displayed at the beginning or end of each player's iCCup handle (Ex. OCC.Bisu and OCC.Stork, [UCLA]Bisu and [UCLA]Stork, Bisu..pton and Stork..pton).
Format:
CSL Fall '09 will consist of a Swiss Tournament format regular season, and a single elimination playoffs. The Swiss Tournament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_tournament) will last six weeks, during which teams will play other teams with similar records. No teams will play each other twice, and no teams are eliminated during this section of CSL. Matches will be played in a Bo5 series (see below) and will be held on iCCup.
The single elimination playoffs will take the top 8 teams from the Swiss format. A bracket will be established, pairing the top seed with the lowest, second highest with second lowest, and so on. The bracket will not change during the playoff tournament. After the semifinals, there will be a match to determine third place, then a finals match to determine the champion. As in the Swiss format, all matches will be best of five, with the first four sets being predetermined and the fifth match determined on the spot. However, unlike the Swiss format, matches will end once a team reaches 3 wins.
For more information regarding tiebreaks and the Swiss system, please refer to the CSL website here. We will also be releasing the CSL Floor Rules document in the near future.
Match Times and Reporting
Each match will consist of a best of five, with the players for the first four sets submitted earlier in the week, and a fifth Ace match where teams decide the player they will send out after the previous four sets have been played. A player may only play once per match, with the exception of the Ace match. Regardless of score, all five sets will be played during the Swiss Tournament for tiebreaker purposes.
Swiss pairings will be posted weekly on Monday 11:59 PM EST. Unlike last season, map pools are already determined (see below). Teams will then submit player lineups and select available times to play - due by Tuesday 11:59PM EST. All Swiss matches are scheduled to occur on Friday/Saturday/Sunday at 6PM EST. Match results must be reported by Sunday at 11:59PM EST.
Broadcasting:
Teams are allowed and encouraged to broadcast their matches via Livestream or other internet streaming tools. This can be done as a first person view or as an observer, but teams will not be granted another observer slot to broadcast their games. Additionally, Voice of ESports holds broadcasting privileges for all CSL games. All playoff games will be casted by Voice of ESports as well.
Coordinator Responsibilities:
Coordinators are responsible for submitting weekly player lineups and results through the CSL website in a timely manner. Additionally, coordinators are expected to respond to CSL emails within 48 hours, should a response be necessary. Please note that the coordinator position is a significant responsibility, and can be extremely demanding outside of submitting CSL-related paperwork.
After the coordinator registration period is over, all information and forms for submitting rosters, lineups, and match results will be available by email and on the CSL website.
Minor League and Individual League:
There will be no minor league for this season of CSL; however, teams are free to organize exhibition matches against each other. We are currently looking into ideas into establishing a minor league for players.
The CSL Individual League will take place after the playoffs of the Teamleague are over. Any player who scored 4 or more wins over the season (not including playoffs) is eligible for the Individual League. Details will be released near the start of playoffs.
Promotional Materials
The CSL Season 1 All-Stars Hype Match will occur on September 5th, 2009, casted by Day[9] and CholeraSC. Please check this thread for more details.
CSL is looking for players and teams to submit pictures or video footage to be featured in our full-length CSL Season 2 Intro Video which will be featured at the beginning of all pre-recorded casted games.
Schedule:
(all dates are in the year 2009)
September 1-11: Coordinator registration
September 12-25: Player registration for the Fall '09 season is open
September 25: Registration fee postmarked; Footage for promotional video deadline (optional)
October 5: Pairings for Week 1 posted
October 6: Lineups for Week 1 due
October 9-11: Week 1
October 12: Pairings for Week 2 posted
October 13: Lineups for Week 2 due
October 16-18: Week 2
October 19: Pairings for Week 3 posted
October 20: Lineups for Week 3 due
October 23-25: Week 3
October 26: Pairings for Week 4 posted
November 3: Lineups for Week 4 due
November 6-8: Week 4
November 9: Pairings for Week 5 posted
November 10: Lineups for Week 5 due
November 13-15: Week 5
November 16: Pairings for Week 6 posted
November 17: Lineups for Week 6 due
November 20-22: Week 6
November 23: Brackets for playoffs announced
December 1: Lineups for Quarterfinals Due
December 4-6: Quarterfinals
December 8: Lineups for Semifinals Due
December 11-13: Semifinals
December 14: Lineups for Finals and 3rd place match Due
December 17: 3rd place match
December 18: CSL Season 2 Finals
Maps:
The maps for CSL season 2 are: Ride of Valkyries, Sin Peaks of Baekdu, Athena II, Neo Medusa 2.1, Outsider, God's Garden, and Shades of Twilight 1.2. Official CSL versions will be made available from the CSL website.
+ Show Spoiler [Week 1 Map Lineup] +Set 1: Ride of Valkyries
Set 2: Athena II
Set 3: Shades of Twilight
Set 4: God's Garden
Ace: Outsider
+ Show Spoiler [Week 2 Map Lineup] +Set 1: Sin Peaks of Beakdu
Set 2: Shades of Twilight
Set 3: Neo Medusa
Set 4: Athena II
Ace: Ride ofValkyries
+ Show Spoiler [Week 3 Map Lineup] +Set 1: God's Garden
Set 2: Outsider
Set 3: Athena II
Set 4: Neo Medusa
Ace: Sin Peaks of Beakdu
+ Show Spoiler [Week 4 Map Lineup] +Set 1: Outsider
Set 2: Ride of the Valkyries
Set 3: God's Garden
Set 4: Shades of Twilight
Ace: Neo Medusa
+ Show Spoiler [Week 5 Map Lineup] +Set 1: Shades of Twilight
Set 2: Athena II
Set 3: Sin Peaks of Beakdu
Set 4: Outsider
Ace: God's Garden
+ Show Spoiler [Week 6 Map Lineup] +Set 1: Athena II
Set 2: Neo Medusa
Set 3: Ride of the Valkyries
Set 4: Sin Peaks of Beakdu
Ace: Shades of Twilight
The maps for the playoffs have yet to be decided, as teams will be allowed to thumb down one map apiece.
In-Game Rules:
The following bugs are allowed in CSL games:
- Observer over turret
- Units pressed through
- Drops to defuse mines
- Mineral walk
- Hold lurker
- Larvae Move
The following bugs are not allowed in CSL games and will result in a penalty as outlined by the CSL Penalty and Procedures Guide:
- Cargo glitch
- Flying drones and templars
- Terran sliding buildings
- A bug which allows your units to remain stacked while moving/attacking
- Allied mines
Additionally, chat in-game is not allowed with the exception of requesting a pause ('p', 'pp', 'ppp' or the like), offering resignation ('gg', 'good game', or the like), and to ask for a regame within the first 30 seconds because of lag.
The only players allowed in the game are the two competing players and two (optional) observers, one from each team. Observers may be asked to leave the game due to latency issues. If anything should happen in the game that would require judgment by a referee, and the two observers are unable to agree about a course of action, a CSL judge should be contacted.
For more information, we will be releasing the CSL Floor Rules and CSL Penalties and Procedures documents on our website in the near future.
I'll keep updating this as we actually start publishing the darned documents. If there are any questions or comments, we appreciate your input!
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"There will be a registration fee due by October 2. The fee is $5 per person on the team. If a team has more than 10 players, the fee will be $50 regardless of the number of players. A registered team who has not paid will be unable to participate in this season's CSL until the fee is paid."
=(
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On September 01 2009 15:15 ziz wrote:
"There will be a registration fee due by October 2. The fee is $5 per person on the team. If a team has more than 10 players, the fee will be $50 regardless of the number of players. A registered team who has not paid will be unable to participate in this season's CSL until the fee is paid."
=(
Yeah, would definitly be interested if it wasn't for the fee.
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United States1865 Posts
Considering getting an ASU team together - what is the average skill of the other college teams though? I figure I can pass at C-, but I doubt anyone that I could get together would be better than D or D-
Would they have any fun at all or is every other school rocking at least D+ and above for all players?
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Believe me, not every team is rocking D+. I know of at least 3-4 schools with solid D/D-/maybe a D+, and they're actually the coolest teams sometimes because they get together, try really hard, and cheer for every win.
I think two of the final playoff teams didn't even have a C or C- player.
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16978 Posts
Our team for sure doesn't have a C- player.
So don't worry about having one 
XD
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United States11390 Posts
On September 01 2009 15:46 Empyrean wrote:Our team for sure doesn't have a C- player. So don't worry about having one XD
It's not like your team has someone who went to Korea as a progamer or anything,
Or a B rank protosss.
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entry fee O___O;;
what the fuck
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seriously why an entry fee? i dont get it? can somebody explain...
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Lolwut. $5 would block you from joining a starleague? I assume there's some slight administrative cost.
I might join MIT's team... is 2v2 gone now? Are we allowed to racepick?
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On September 01 2009 17:15 Freaky[x] wrote:
seriously why an entry fee? i dont get it? can somebody explain...
we have expenses -_- seriously you expect us to pay for your league out of our own pockets?
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On September 01 2009 20:08 Sunyveil wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2009 17:15 Freaky[x] wrote:
seriously why an entry fee? i dont get it? can somebody explain... we have expenses -_- seriously you expect us to pay for your league out of our own pockets?
It would be logical to explain at least how the fees are going to be used.
If let's say 20 schools join and there are average of 5 people on the team, that's 500 bucks.
500 bucks for... what?
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I'm so poor right now I think I'd rather spend my $5 at Del Taco  .
Oh well at least the UC league is free.
How do you end up paying for it anyways?
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Calgary25979 Posts
LOL ENTRY FEE?
Fucking ESports. I seem to remember the TSL being free and having ridiculous coverage. What are you kids doing these days?
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On September 01 2009 21:00 Chill wrote:
LOL ENTRY FEE?
Fucking ESports. I seem to remember the TSL being free and having ridiculous coverage. What are you kids doing these days?
Hey Chill, when is TSL 2?
We aren't established enough to have attracted a sponsor (yet), so do you really expect us to continually give out a prize to the winner out of our own pockets? Who is paying for that?
as of now, I don't think anybody working on CSL has earned anything for it if that's what you're asking.
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Belgium9947 Posts
On September 01 2009 21:07 Sunyveil wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2009 21:00 Chill wrote:
LOL ENTRY FEE?
Fucking ESports. I seem to remember the TSL being free and having ridiculous coverage. What are you kids doing these days? Hey Chill, when is TSL 2? We aren't established enough to have attracted a sponsor (yet), so do you really expect us to continually give out a prize to the winner out of our own pockets? Who is paying for that? as of now, I don't think anybody working on CSL has earned anything for it if that's what you're asking.
What are you talking about? Voice of ESports is the industry standard.
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On September 01 2009 21:07 Sunyveil wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2009 21:00 Chill wrote:
LOL ENTRY FEE?
Fucking ESports. I seem to remember the TSL being free and having ridiculous coverage. What are you kids doing these days? Hey Chill, when is TSL 2? We aren't established enough to have attracted a sponsor (yet), so do you really expect us to continually give out a prize to the winner out of our own pockets? Who is paying for that? as of now, I don't think anybody working on CSL has earned anything for it if that's what you're asking.
did you say PRIZE???? never heard about CSL giving out prize to a winner
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the problem with the entry fee is I can only see it paying for webhosting and webdomain registration and MAYBE web designer, but that's already done and those things cost (for the amount of people that come on your website) less than the amount you're getting (much less), am I wrong? and no mention of prize... so ya =\ (and you can probably get help from one of the major starcraft websites for hosting and so on)
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Yes, Individual League! 
Day[9] FTW!
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I believe coordinators were encouraged to obtain the sign up fee from the schools undergraduate social committee or whatever. At least that is what my school is doing.
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I'm ok with the fee but the mappool is totally bizarre and needs to change asap
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Belgium9947 Posts
On September 01 2009 23:37 Freaky[x] wrote:
the problem with the entry fee is I can only see it paying for webhosting and webdomain registration and MAYBE web designer, but that's already done and those things cost (for the amount of people that come on your website) less than the amount you're getting (much less), am I wrong? and no mention of prize... so ya =\ (and you can probably get help from one of the major starcraft websites for hosting and so on)
It's all for a noble cause.. Voice of E-Sports LLC is trying to professionalize E-Sports coverage! They need money to do so.
Don't worry, Peanut surely knows what she's doing. You're forgetting about her tons of experience in the community. The money is in good hands.
The fact that they have no prize, an entry fee, and still monopolize the broadcasting rights is all for the community!
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Expenses? Like what? The expenses are seriously trivial. Let's say there are 50 teams playing with 6 players, that's $1500 you're making. Now, all your expenses can't possible cost more than $300... I would know because I have had many websites and such.
Considering your op post mentions nothing about a prize, and there was no mention of any prize for the first season, your saying "we can't continually give out prizes" is totally untrue anyways because there has been no indication of giving out prizes anywhere.
This looks like a money grubbing scam. Any respectable person wouldn't be trying to make money from this. TL has hosted TONS of events with great coverage, much much better than anything CSL has or will do, and doesn't make anything. I for example, have hosted tons of events over the years and I've never once made a dime of profit because of it. TL does what it does because it loves the game. It's not about money, and it should not be about money.
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On September 01 2009 21:07 Sunyveil wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2009 21:00 Chill wrote:
LOL ENTRY FEE?
Fucking ESports. I seem to remember the TSL being free and having ridiculous coverage. What are you kids doing these days? Hey Chill, when is TSL 2? We aren't established enough to have attracted a sponsor (yet), so do you really expect us to continually give out a prize to the winner out of our own pockets? Who is paying for that? as of now, I don't think anybody working on CSL has earned anything for it if that's what you're asking.
You realize that when TL started the TSL they didn't have a sponsor lined up and would have ended up paying the prize out of their own pocket anyways (don't kill me if the story is wrong, but I seem to remember this being the case).
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Assuming there are 5 players per team x 20 teams in CSL, we end up breaking even with our costs. We brought this up with all the coordinators before this was implemented, and encouraged people to go to student councils to fund this.
Although SC has been traditionally free of cost, it's not uncommon for any intercollegiate extracurricular to have a small fee. I know participating in ballroom involves dues every month or so whenever they have a competition, of about $35.
I know the SC community is really opposed to anything money making -- I'm pretty opposed to it too. That's why the fee's as low as it can go.
For some transparency, $500 goes into:
1) server costs
2) filing fees
The 2nd because yes, we are a corporation, because yes, we would like to get sponsored at some point by silly things like Coca cola and Pringles. I don't know how transparent I should be with deals that have only been mentioned in passing, but $5 does go towards things like possible non-cash prizes from an affiliated but un-named gaming company that we all know and love.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
Server costs? What are you going to be using a server for? You're not just using livestream?
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I think CSL has a great chance of evolving into something more stable and important than a community tournament.
$5 to compete on a college team, most likely fronted by the school itself, seems very reasonable compared to a lot of other clubs/sports/activities...
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On September 02 2009 00:47 motbob wrote:
Server costs? What are you going to be using a server for? You're not just using livestream?
We do have a website, don't you know!
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On September 02 2009 00:49 Muirhead wrote:
I think CSL has a great chance of evolving into something more stable and important than a community tournament.
$5 to compete on a college team, most likely fronted by the school itself, seems very reasonable compared to a lot of other clubs/sports/activities...
That's fine but lets atleast have a look at expected costs and some sort of idea of the money they will bring in from the registration. I have no problem with $5 its peanuts, but, if its not necessary then why have it?
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Server and hosting can't cost more than 100 or 200, can it? I mean even the small packages have quite a bit of space, I'm paying $150 for 3 years for my team-light.net hosting... that's practically nothing.
And filing fees are a few hundred I believe... ?
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Belgium9947 Posts
On September 02 2009 00:43 hazelynut wrote:
Assuming there are 5 players per team x 20 teams in CSL, we end up breaking even with our costs. We brought this up with all the coordinators before this was implemented, and encouraged people to go to student councils to fund this.
Although SC has been traditionally free of cost, it's not uncommon for any intercollegiate extracurricular to have a small fee. I know participating in ballroom involves dues every month or so whenever they have a competition, of about $35.
I know the SC community is really opposed to anything money making -- I'm pretty opposed to it too. That's why the fee's as low as it can go.
For some transparency, $500 goes into:
1) server costs
2) filing fees
The 2nd because yes, we are a corporation, because yes, we would like to get sponsored at some point by silly things like Coca cola and Pringles. I don't know how transparent I should be with deals that have only been mentioned in passing, but $5 does go towards things like possible non-cash prizes from an affiliated but un-named gaming company that we all know and love.
You and I both know that server costs and filing fees don't even come close to 500 bucks unless you're paying for streaming bandwith. I'm pretty sure you're going to LiveStream/ UStream it, so streaming bandwith isn't even an issue.
The last time SC had an event with an entry fee was the last TLTour, and that had almost all of the money going towards the prizes. There's a reason there weren't any entry fee tournaments anymore since then.. there's no costs involved in organizing a tournament unless you're paying the organizers/casters.
If you're going to ask for an entry fee, and claim it's to cover costs, at least make it transparent. Where would left over money go (which would be like 95% of the money)? Are you paying your casters? Are you paying yourself?
The fact that you're a company that's trying to make money off of esports asking for an entry fee and claiming it's going towards expenses just doesn't really add up.
Oh and just so you know, the moment a company makes money off of broadcasting StarCraft, they'll need a license from Blizzard and will have to pay Blizzard royalties. This makes the overhead for making it a lucrative business even bigger. You'll have to pay Blizzard for broadcasting rights with the money of your participants just so your company can make some money.
This is complete bullshit. The CSL last season was well organized and a really fun event for participants. Do you really need to milk the concept out just so you can make some money off the participants' back? Do you really want to be the first persons ever to not organize a tournament for fun or out of love for the game, but for personal gain?
I don't see how any person with any sort of moral fiber would want to pay for this :\
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Belgium9947 Posts
If you're paying anyone on your staff, atleast hire an ESPORTS CONSULTANT, because your current business model or whatever you want to call it, is just retarded.
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200+300 does end up to be 500.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On September 02 2009 00:38 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2009 21:07 Sunyveil wrote:On September 01 2009 21:00 Chill wrote:
LOL ENTRY FEE?
Fucking ESports. I seem to remember the TSL being free and having ridiculous coverage. What are you kids doing these days? Hey Chill, when is TSL 2? We aren't established enough to have attracted a sponsor (yet), so do you really expect us to continually give out a prize to the winner out of our own pockets? Who is paying for that? as of now, I don't think anybody working on CSL has earned anything for it if that's what you're asking. You realize that when TL started the TSL they didn't have a sponsor lined up and would have ended up paying the prize out of their own pocket anyways (don't kill me if the story is wrong, but I seem to remember this being the case).
This is true, we announced with no confirmed sponsor. We simply trusted in the power of ESPORTS.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Bad idea to charge cover. Get a sponsor call it the Razer CSL. There's your 500$. All this talk of business company LLC is bullshit. You are all college kids lol - get over yourselves. ESPORRRRTSSS
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Belgium9947 Posts
On September 02 2009 01:09 hazelynut wrote:
200+300 does end up to be 500.
200 buys you 4 years of website hosting. Are filing fees really 300 bucks?
If so, you're basically asking a cover charge so the CSL name can be owned by VoES, so that you can sell it/make money off it later?
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In response to RaGe,
http://www.dat.state.md.us/sdatweb/fees.html
Paid the first one hundred seventy, and
http://www.forminganllcguide.com/Maryland.htm
When forming an LLC in Maryland, you should be prepared to pay an Annual Report fee of $300.00
Although we're not LLC, but a corporation - the filing fees are similar, I'd imagine.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting/hostingfeatures.php
12 mos.: $7.46/mo.
For 1st 3 mos.1
($9.95 / month after) ~$100?
This is for two years now.
Remainder can go to a prize pool, or if the community isn't so hostile to the idea, things like green screens for possible intro videos, a pool to allow schools to travel, so on.
We're not paying ourselves or the commentators, although we do hope CSL grows into, as Muirhead said, something bigger than just an annual community tournament.
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the only thing I see that might cost 500$ is that somebody was promised money for working on the video, images or website + webhosting (which can be hosted anywhere =\) OR the money is used to fund a CLUB at one of the schools... that's about it.you're not hiring strippers are you? coz I want live feed to that too then
sorry for the sarcasm... why a corporation...?
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Belgium9947 Posts
Still doesn't make sense for the participants to be paying your filing fees, when you're the owners of the company and are paying those fees to make a name for yourselves, hoping to make money off it later. You're basically asking the participants to invest in your company, but giving no return.
Your server costs would probably be lower if it wasn't registered on a company too.
Stop saying that it's to cover expenses of the tournament. You're using it to cover expenses of the business you started to make money off of SC. If your company had any form of income, you probably wouldn't be charging this. Unfortunately, it's failing to make money now, so you're using entry fee money to cover the expenses of your (atm) failed investment.
I don't see how you can even think this is the right thing to do. How you think this is even justifiable.
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16978 Posts
I'm just confused as to why you'd want to form an LLC. What's the point? Certainly a community run tournament doesn't need to be incorporated? And if you do hope it grows into something bigger than just an annual tournament, you certainly don't need to be incorporated to do it.
What's incorporation honestly going to do for not only the players, but you as well?
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Why the hell do you kids need an LLC rofl. I don't understand the thought process that decided we need to protect ourselves and add huge overhead which is clearly above our income (0$). Do you ever watch that show Dragon's Den? This reminds me of Dragon's Den 1000%.
On September 02 2009 01:24 RaGe wrote:
Still doesn't make sense for the participants to be paying your filing fees, when you're the owners of the company and are paying those fees to make a name for yourselves, hoping to make money off it later. You're basically asking the participants to invest in your company, but giving no return.
Couldn't agree more.
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Right, we're making a business/company so we can make a name for ourselves. Right.
I've gone through these internal debates before - as well as debates with other admin. Halfway through the year, I thought, wow, isn't becoming a business too soon? We're not even large enough to justify anything, blah blah blah, don't want to be corporate money-making, blah blah blah.
Then Blizzard contacted us, spoke of some arrangement, and suggested that becoming a legal entity would REALLY help proceedings. They proved me wrong in that instance (I'd been opposing a move to company status for a month or so, so I slowed down any possible negotiations and felt pretty ignorant for it).
That's mainly why I agreed that making a business was best for CSL - because of situations like these that I didn't understand, but had to eat my own words for.
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16978 Posts
Could you provide what Blizzard told you?
By the way, a cynical part of me is telling me that you're just doing this for something good to put on your resume. I mean, it's certainly attractive to a hiring company to see that your applicant is the head of an LLC, isn't it?
Hopefully that's not the case.
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if blizzard wants you to become a legal entity, ask them to pay for your filling fees since you're technically going to be the ones that will help them "reach" out to the college community of north america.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On September 02 2009 01:38 Freaky[x] wrote:
if blizzard wants you to become a legal entity, ask them to pay for your filling fees since you're technically going to be the ones that will help them "reach" out to the college community of north america.
Yup.That or get VoE to pay it. I can understand a buy in for tournament prizes but paying startup costs is....
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as a participant/co-coordinator, my only concern is why we should join and pay a fee if no prizes are set. Sure, CSL S1 was fun and all, but I don't think it is well-established nor well run enough (there were several hiccups during S1) to justify paying to participate in it with nothing to gain.
if there were prizes that we can strive for, then it would be more easily justified. But at the moment, it is not.
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Kennigit+Rage+Xeris+Empryean=Dragons!
But seriously, $5*5players*20 teams= 500, but don't you think some teams will put up more than 5 players? Didn't Princeton have about ten players?
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16978 Posts
Easier, but not necessary. I'm sure Blizzard would be comfortable in giving even, say, you the keys, knowing that you'll distribute them to the deserving winners. And if you don't, then of course you'll have the ire of the community. Also Blizz will hate you.
EDIT: I still don't see any advantages in forming the LLC.
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My point is you don't have the backing of the community, or anybody else that wants to be in the tournament, why you ask? If you were somebody like xeris, who literally flew from california to montreal to host a tournament live with prizes and spend time with the people then you MIGHT have a point. If you actually took the time to build player confidence and build a fanbase and then have enough "player income" (in terms of #'s) and have a prize then we might agree with you.
However, iccup and wgtour don't charge people for stuff like this and they have been around for a while. Why should you? You're just a college community tournament. What you're doing right now is destroying what you've been building up for the past year.People don't like being deceived and will stop trusting you and then what... nothing. it won't be worth the time you spent on it
just my 2 cents
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16978 Posts
I actually think she has the backing of the community to make the event a success, just not with the 5$charge per person that might be instituted. I mean, everyone wants to see the CSL be successful, but I don't think charging people an unnecessary fee is the way to go about it.
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I've had my doubts too. It's strange because all the involved parties (coordinators) either don't read their emails or just haven't responded with "never forgive you or trust you and then everything will fall" - they asked what the money was for, we responded, and then they said okay - cool.
Did your coordinator not tell you about this? The response was generally neutral/understanding from the colleges - if it were more like this, we would have rethought this process about three months ago.
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oups didn't have time to finish my edit and ya I think he has the community support but I mean, if he asked the tl community for help to establish something solid that he can help grow then the idea of community that blizzard had can be much better established... He would have a LOT of opinions and ideas and people can help him much more than this way.
The way he's going about this right now ... it seems like he's imposing something on the whole community which doesn't feel good. I mean, if I wanted to I could just create FCSL the free college stracraft league where everybody can play and use a tacky slogan like "Where college students unite to play starcraft and grow together" (sounds awful but I don't care). my point is, he could have gone about doing what he wanted to do in a more elegant way, right now I feel like I'm being violated.
edit: well you should be the first to know I don't receive emails from my coordinator  remember?
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k I need to talk to our actual coordinator...
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United States10774 Posts
empy aren't you our coordinator lol
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On September 01 2009 21:07 Sunyveil wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2009 21:00 Chill wrote:
LOL ENTRY FEE?
Fucking ESports. I seem to remember the TSL being free and having ridiculous coverage. What are you kids doing these days? Hey Chill, when is TSL 2? We aren't established enough to have attracted a sponsor (yet), so do you really expect us to continually give out a prize to the winner out of our own pockets? Who is paying for that? as of now, I don't think anybody working on CSL has earned anything for it if that's what you're asking.
you've given out prizes to the winners? i must have missed that one.
also, taking a stab at a league that you can only dream of matching is lol.
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Empyrean probably has an excuse because he wasn't on last season's list, which is what we had to work off for bouncing off ideas.
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On September 02 2009 01:54 hazelynut wrote:
I've had my doubts too. It's strange because all the involved parties (coordinators) either don't read their emails or just haven't responded with "never forgive you or trust you and then everything will fall" - they asked what the money was for, we responded, and then they said okay - cool.
Did your coordinator not tell you about this? The response was generally neutral/understanding from the colleges - if it were more like this, we would have rethought this process about three months ago.
we agreed in principle under the impression that 100% of the money was going to go into prizes, not to help start your "business"
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yeah that's it. If there were good prizes then I don't think there would be much problem with it
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First off, why would you trust Blizzard. You realize that Blizzard was one of the main things that killed WGT? We signed a contract with them and that essentially ended the ladder for good because they failed to come through on their part of the bargain and we were contractually obligated to basically sit and wait for them.
Really what this looks like is a bunch of people seeing an opportunity to make a quick buck. As Freaky said, I seriously FLEW to Montreal to host a tournament for Canadians because they didn't have WCG and I felt like their community deserved a tournament. I didn't make anything, I actually spent money from my own pocket, but it was a great tournament... everyone had a lot of fun, and 100% of entry fee went to the players, and I was able to get them hardware prizes.
There's almost 0 reason to charge an entry fee unless 100% of it is going to the players. At all, there's no justification for charging an entry fee.
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16978 Posts
On September 02 2009 01:59 OneOther wrote:
empy aren't you our coordinator lol
Yeah and this was the first time I found out about the entry fee <_<
That being said, let's start getting our practicing in?
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The Ohio State coordinator hasn't been active/contacting us for months now. I would've probably made an effort to form a new OSU team but the registration fee is a sticking point. I am unwilling to pay upkeep fees (since this is what they are) out of my pocket, and it's way too late in the cycle to form a club and try to get money from the school (I'm a treasurer of a club here, and it'd be nearly impossible to do what has been suggested).
If Ancestral has been in contact with you and is saying something different, then believe him, but he hasn't been in contact with us. While Ohio State wasn't the best organized last year, we were still a participant in CSL and I think it's safe to say we won't be making the attempt to get a team as long registration fees are in effect.
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United States10774 Posts
On September 02 2009 02:12 Empyrean wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2009 01:59 OneOther wrote:
empy aren't you our coordinator lol Yeah and this was the first time I found out about the entry fee <_< That being said, let's start getting our practicing in?
yeh  we are in pretty good shape if me/tyler/julian pull through, but you will have to bail us pretty frequently
edit: I don't really mind paying the fee as long as it's clear to others and me that it's being used correctly.
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On September 02 2009 02:05 Xeris wrote:
First off, why would you trust Blizzard. You realize that Blizzard was one of the main things that killed WGT? We signed a contract with them and that essentially ended the ladder for good because they failed to come through on their part of the bargain and we were contractually obligated to basically sit and wait for them.
Really what this looks like is a bunch of people seeing an opportunity to make a quick buck. As Freaky said, I seriously FLEW to Montreal to host a tournament for Canadians because they didn't have WCG and I felt like their community deserved a tournament. I didn't make anything, I actually spent money from my own pocket, but it was a great tournament... everyone had a lot of fun, and 100% of entry fee went to the players, and I was able to get them hardware prizes.
There's almost 0 reason to charge an entry fee unless 100% of it is going to the players. At all, there's no justification for charging an entry fee.
i agree
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16978 Posts
On September 02 2009 02:15 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2009 02:12 Empyrean wrote:On September 02 2009 01:59 OneOther wrote:
empy aren't you our coordinator lol Yeah and this was the first time I found out about the entry fee <_< That being said, let's start getting our practicing in? yeh we are in pretty good shape if me/tyler/julian pull through, but you will have to bail us pretty frequently edit: I don't really mind paying the fee as long as it's clear to others and me that it's being used correctly.
I'm going to state it now and on the record, that on certain maps and match ups, I'm untouchable in a bo1
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I'm not sure if my team will want to play now.
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16978 Posts
On September 02 2009 02:19 Ideas wrote:
I'm not sure if my team will want to play now.
Not to suggest anything, but I think if enough teams don't want to play, then the organizers are either forced to scrap the entry fee or have to deal with mediocre participation, loss of interest, and hardly any community support or interest
Or maybe someone will organize a free version.
(that being said, I don't mind contributing to prize money and server costs, I just don't want to pay for CSL to get LLC status).
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Yep, I won't pay to have my team participate unless 100% entry fee money goes to the prize pool, and even then I'd still hesitate.
I was around for CSL playoff matches and it was a bunch of randomness and quite unorganized. If these guys are adamant about trying to extract money from the community for their own personal gains I'll just make UCPL into a nationwide college league, free of charge and for the love of the community and I can almost guarantee I'll run it just as well or better and all by myself to boot.
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I think the CSL is a great idea and I really enjoyed it last year.
You guys should decide if you want to rage about a minimal fee on principle or if you want to try and support an idea which brings Starcraft players together at your universities.
I hope the organizers can propose clear suggestions about where the extra money will go in terms of prizes, and I hope they continue to do a good job of generating interest and awareness over the coming weeks. It would really be a tremendous thing if this grew to encompass dozens of universities.
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Hey can anyone tell me what is going on with the rutgers team with clazzi banned? I still would like to play in it if others are willing.
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Belgium9947 Posts
Oh and can you explain the VoE involvement in this? CSL is officially yours, right Hazel? So just because Cholera (member of VoE) is cocasting the event, you want your participants to pay their filing fees?
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It is a great idea, and many people enjoyed it. I thought for the most part it was good, wasn't run very well but it was in the spirit of fun so whatever. It's not the money that is a problem, $5 is chump change, but it's the principle.
NOBODY tells the community "I'm going to host a tournament but you have to pay for it" . Established people can't even get that shit to work, and a bunch of scrubs (pardon my english) think that after running one season of a league that they can come in here and start milking the community? If TL or WGT, or GG.net, or even me don't get anything out of what they do (ok GG.net earns some profit, but not much) other than the satisfaction of knowing they're making SC nerds happy then what makes these guys able to do that? It's a disgusting manipulation of the passion we all have for this game. This game survived for so long because of people's love for it, it's not about making money...
If you look at almost ANY business, they had to go through years of financial loss and hardship before they became established and started earning profit. These CSL people are trying to cut corners by exploiting the community to save some money and start their dumbass corporation. I paid for hosting of BWUSA.org and ran a league and other tournaments out of my own pocket for fun, etc... TL.net runs tournaments all the time and never makes a dime. It's complete and utter bullshit for these guys to even claim they're trying to cover expenses. Don't get involved in this shit if your goal is to make money / break even.
Even look at GG.net (a BW example). Raistlin and Mazor started it in 2002 or 2003 or whenever it was, they paid for hosting and they worked probably 10-15 hours a day coding, writing newses, etc. They did EVERYTHING for the community and worked their asses off to provide foreigner coverage. Now it's 2009 and GG.net has ads and can get sponsors and make a bit of money too, but it took them 3-4 years to get to a point where they could earn anything.
There's absolutely no justification for charging and entry fee AT ALL.
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While the $5 fee per player is small, and really amounts to very little when you look our individual SC club's budget, there are some very good points in this thread about what exactly that fee goes towards and why it's being charged.
Server costs clearly don't cover the whole sum of money you'll be receiving if CSL takes off, especially if you'll be streaming offsite. If LLC costs are high enough to be forcing you to charge fees already, when the previous season wasn't very well-run, then you may want to reconsider being an LLC in the first place. CSL has to first prove that it's capable of smoothly running a large-scale operation before people will even consider giving money to participate in an activity that normally costs absolutely nothing. Without that trust, you really can't expect people to be willing to invest in you.
@Xeris: You're clearly getting too emotionally involved with this. Step back, take a chill pill. There's no reason to resort to calling people "scrubs" or "dumbass"es when the people behind this are rational, decent people who are clearly trying their best to further legitimize SCBW in the US. Please don't immediately assume that they're trying to "milk the community".
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It's kind of insulting for people who have never even thought of profiting from community efforts and have been doing it for many years to see some people who have been involved in the community for what seems like a grand total of 6 months try to start to turn things corporate, and have the community pay for it, no less. I mean look at the op, there's not even any mention of prizes =P
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It is a bit disconcerting to hear CSL staff drop hints of prizes when it's been clearly stated before that there will be no prizes offered to the winning teams. Certainly CSL could use some better organization and communication. It's also understandable that SCBW community veterans who have contributed generously and altruistically to the community over the years would feel uneasy and offended at the prospect of others charging money to participate in leagues.
But I think that this step is a necessary eventuality if SCBW is ever going to be "legitimized" in the US; clearly this is debatable, and CSL is probably rushing too fast on this path, but it'll probably happen at some point or another, unfortunately. Such is reality.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Don't worry. We had long talk about it. everything solved. nothing to see here!
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16978 Posts
So if there aren't any prizes, we're pretty much just paying so they can be an LLC?
...
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On September 02 2009 03:06 Empyrean wrote:
So if there aren't any prizes, we're pretty much just paying so they can be an LLC?
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Shh, long talk.
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16978 Posts
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Looking forward to some revelations :O
Hope lots of colleges join this year... everybody please get motivated to sign up.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 02 2009 03:06 Kennigit wrote:
Don't worry. We had long talk about it. everything solved. nothing to see here!
Well, other than everything else that's useful in the OP.
Anything worth mentioning from the long talk?
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16978 Posts
They probably got the money thing sorted out.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Closed by request. Will reopen when they figure everything out.
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Calgary25979 Posts
Ok CSL is official ridiculous. I just read all the replies. Kids these days.
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EPT
