On October 20 2009 12:59 NeverGG wrote: This is just my personal opinion, but I find all the over analysis of relationships to be really, really creepy. Talk of 'closing the deal' and 'strategies' I've seen in places other than TL (mainly.) is just weird and almost stalkerish. If I ever found out a guy I was dating talked like this or had this kind of really over analytical mind set about relationships I'd dump him immediately. Also some of the metaphors surrounding that kind of 'playa' speak make women sound like trophies or objects. I'd like to think of myself as less akin to a Pokemon and more as a human being.
Having said this I'm a woman who has devoted herself to eSports, hates clothes shopping, loves zombie games and horror movies and would rather die than sit through a chick flick. So I'm hardly in a position to speak for the 'typical' (British) girl and how she might react to reading the in-depth theorizing that surrounds picking up/dating women.
Well its because you dont want people to coldly analyze your reactions and actually make you fall for it.
Most women not only dont like it, but deny such thing exists, as if their method to choosing a partner were so mysterious no amount of observation and analysis can solve it, but they are wrong, as all human behavior it can be explained and exploited.
On October 20 2009 12:59 NeverGG wrote: This is just my personal opinion, but I find all the over analysis of relationships to be really, really creepy. Talk of 'closing the deal' and 'strategies' I've seen in places other than TL (mainly.) is just weird and almost stalkerish. If I ever found out a guy I was dating talked like this or had this kind of really over analytical mind set about relationships I'd dump him immediately. Also some of the metaphors surrounding that kind of 'playa' speak make women sound like trophies or objects. I'd like to think of myself as less akin to a Pokemon and more as a human being.
Having said this I'm a woman who has devoted herself to eSports, hates clothes shopping, loves zombie games and horror movies and would rather die than sit through a chick flick. So I'm hardly in a position to speak for the 'typical' (British) girl and how she might react to reading the in-depth theorizing that surrounds picking up/dating women.
You know, a lot of women (and a growing number of men!) don't really like the aura that sort of surrounds the PUA community. You have to remember is that it's the pick-up community - most guys just want to know how to pick up women for one-night stands or whatever, NOT for relationships.
If they *do* try for that relationship, they usually end up failing, at one point or another, because there's a huge difference between what it takes to be sexually attractive and what it takes to have a fulfilling relationship, although you need the former to be successful in the latter. If you ask a dude about what they want from women, most dudes will tell you that at some point in their life that they want that one amazing, spectacular woman. It's a sort of tactics vs. strategy kind of thing - sure you can get that one girl in bed, but can you get her to come back for coffee or lunch the next week? No pickup lines or techniques will get you that - it's all tactics - but the right "strategy" is for a guy to work on himself and become someone who is naturally attractive.
Unfortunately a lot of guys miss the point and stay stuck in the "pick-up lines/techniques" stage and figure that the more tactics they learn the better of a chance they'll be able to have a fulfilling relationship with a woman. The women they end up attracting are just as insecure and shallow as they are. These guys end up with emotional vampires that end up draining away at their lives, and they end up ultimately no more satisfied with their lives as before they started learning pick-up.
With that said... there's a LOT that can be learned. Earlier posters have said that a lot of times it's just putting names on what's natural, and giving the dude a technique or line or whatever to try, and so when he does succeed he can get a sense of what the interaction is like and how he can develop HIMSELF to ensure that interaction flows more naturally. A lot of guys are completely lost when it comes to this, and so sometimes a few techniques can go a long way in helping a guy figure out what works and what doesn't, and they start to take an active approach in improving themselves. Sometimes the guys that learn from this approach take it to other places in their life and start developing THOSE parts as well.
Besides, you wouldn't want to live in a world where "hey bitch I wanna fuck you" is a commonly-used pick-up line, would you?
Consider this, the author of The Game, and pick up artist: Neil Strauss, as well as the Mystery, the "best pick up artist" have long term relationships.
The way pick up artists do it(specific lines, scripts, and plans for any kind of situation) is(and was made) for the social cripples, regular people do fine with confidence, grooming, and a buddy to club with.
agreed with shaperofdreams. the whole PUA thing is played out. EVEN for the "socially crippled", all it takes is some time and experience; get out there and start talkin to girls, whether it be friends of friends, random girls, etc.
So what, you may be able to memorize some corny ass lines and utilize them "effectively", but its effective only to a certain level. After that, you gotta eventually open up and show her who you really are, and if you're just using those lines/scripts or w/e, that's definitely not really you.
This topic is pretty difficult to discuss because preferences come into play (for both you and the girl), so depending on what kinda attributes both of you are lookin for, it might or might not work in the long run.
Personally, I don't become too outgoing unless I take interest in someone, met them atleast a few times, or if I'm just out kickin it with friends and drinking then I start talkin a lot. Just be friendly, lead conversations, and make her laugh. That should be more than enough for her to take interest in you, unless she's looking for something different but from my experience that's some of the main things girls like in guys
bump, Hey I got a question involving buses and bus stop game. If you have ever ridden the bus its the kind of place where people are very introverted and disregard everyone while they read, do homework, listen to music, text people.
So basically this super fine girl i see about 50 feet away is walking towards the bus stop where me and like 10 other people are waiting. The moment she walks up and we see each other I can feel a vibe. Then in like 10 minutes we all get on the bus and she sits across from me. I can feel her eyes dart over me and you know when you get that vibe like you both are interested in each other from across the room or whatever. It was totally one of those, but we never really made eye contact. Damn she was hot she was even standing cute waiting for the bus.
She's obviously one of the college students that go to CSULB and ride this same bus. She is about 5'5" or taller, caucasian/italian or some dark breed, semi-long dark brown hair; fairly smooth/straight looking, pretty tight figure; small waist, nice sized butt (she was wearing those black strechy pants that form fit girls so well), perky tits (probably B cup), beautiful big brown? eyes, slightly larger nose but in a cute way etc, small lips and jaw, etc. This girl was fine.
fufufufufuuuuuuu How do I game this girl on the bus in the event that I see her again? (btw I might not see her again because I was late for work and took a bus I normally wouldn't)
On December 01 2009 05:50 CharlieMurphy wrote: bump, Hey I got a question involving buses and bus stop game. If you have ever ridden the bus its the kind of place where people are very introverted and disregard everyone while they read, do homework, listen to music, text people.
So basically this super fine girl i see about 50 feet away is walking towards the bus stop where me and like 10 other people are waiting. The moment she walks up and we see each other I can feel a vibe. Then in like 10 minutes we all get on the bus and she sits across from me. I can feel her eyes dart over me and you know when you get that vibe like you both are interested in each other from across the room or whatever. It was totally one of those, but we never really made eye contact. Damn she was hot she was even standing cute waiting for the bus.
She's obviously one of the college students that go to CSULB and ride this same bus. She is about 5'5" or taller, caucasian/italian or some dark breed, semi-long dark brown hair; fairly smooth/straight looking, pretty tight figure; small waist, nice sized butt (she was wearing those black strechy pants that form fit girls so well), perky tits (probably B cup), beautiful big brown? eyes, slightly larger nose but in a cute way etc, small lips and jaw, etc. This girl was fine.
fufufufufuuuuuuu How do I game this girl on the bus in the event that I see her again? (btw I might not see her again because I was late for work and took a bus I normally wouldn't)
My advice is to talk to her next time. If there's an awkward silence when both of you can't think of something suitable to say, that means she's feeling just as self-conscious as you so don't worry about it.I'm no Casanova btw just interested in psychology.
On December 01 2009 05:50 CharlieMurphy wrote: bump, Hey I got a question involving buses and bus stop game. If you have ever ridden the bus its the kind of place where people are very introverted and disregard everyone while they read, do homework, listen to music, text people.
So basically this super fine girl i see about 50 feet away is walking towards the bus stop where me and like 10 other people are waiting. The moment she walks up and we see each other I can feel a vibe. Then in like 10 minutes we all get on the bus and she sits across from me. I can feel her eyes dart over me and you know when you get that vibe like you both are interested in each other from across the room or whatever. It was totally one of those, but we never really made eye contact. Damn she was hot she was even standing cute waiting for the bus.
She's obviously one of the college students that go to CSULB and ride this same bus. She is about 5'5" or taller, caucasian/italian or some dark breed, semi-long dark brown hair; fairly smooth/straight looking, pretty tight figure; small waist, nice sized butt (she was wearing those black strechy pants that form fit girls so well), perky tits (probably B cup), beautiful big brown? eyes, slightly larger nose but in a cute way etc, small lips and jaw, etc. This girl was fine.
fufufufufuuuuuuu How do I game this girl on the bus in the event that I see her again? (btw I might not see her again because I was late for work and took a bus I normally wouldn't)
Why didn't you just say HI to her? This is pretty stalkerish. The fact that you're putting in so much effort to try and think of the perfect thing to say to her the next time you "accidentally" bump into her is really needy too. Not to mention that she didn't even do anything to earn that effort besides looking pretty. This is why a lot of girls are bitches, jaded or hard to approach. All their lives guys have been throwing effort and affection at them like confetti, when they haven't done anything to deserve it. They become bored of it.
My advice is to develop a fun and congruent vibe at ALL times. And to make sure it doesn't just turn "on" or you change the way you act as soon as you see a pretty girl or as soon as the weekend is coming up. It's better to be the 24/7 attractive man, so that you CAN attract girls anywhere you meet, whether it'd be in a club, in class or on the bus.
As to what to say to her next time you see her. Here's a tip. Become a master of pointing out the obvious. If you can get her to agree with you (i.e. relate to you), early on and frequently, then you can definitely bang her or date her. Because people like people like themselves. If you saw some random girl walking on the street and she was wearing a TL.net shirt, you'd probably feel elated. Or if you were talking to someone you just met and they said, "Man, I'm so tired, last night I stayed up watching SC till 4am" your eyes would probably light up. This, plus the right vibe is the secret to getting someone to feel like they've known you for years.
So point out something obvious about that immediate environment. It could be about the weather, or class, or a headline. Here's a real life example. Today I was on the subway to work when I was standing next to the door and holding onto the poll. There are these little saddle like handles that people can grab onto over our heads as well. This girl walks in and she grabs one of the handles beside me. I say, "So what's your technique then?". And she goes "huh?" I say, "I use the overhand grip because I can lean into my entire arm once it get's tired". Then she goes "Oh yeah!" yadda yadda.... I got her facebook and we talked as if we were old friends for about 20 minutes before she got off.
Another example is from this saturday. I met her in driving school. As she's sitting down infront of me, we give each other a polite "Hi". During our break though I say to her, "Man, these things are so long, I'm sooo hungry right now." She says, "Yeah, me too." Then I point out another obvious thing, "You know what? her: what? These classes are pretty useless, all the knowledge stuff is just COMMON sense, I'd rather learn how to parallel park properly, in-car." And then she gets excited, "Oh yeah! I was actually gonna skip the classes all together and do the incar thing instead." Yadda Yadda. I actually end up taking the bus home with her and we set up a date And YES, I added her to my facebook as well.
That's another thing. Get her facebook. It's 10x more effective than getting a phone number imo and not to mention a lot easier.
A good opener is: "Hello, my name is [insert your name]", with a smile on your face and an easy manner. This conveys confidence, friendliness and is very straight-forward.
Also you don't explicitly ask for her name but she feels compelled to say it because you said yours, so when she goes "oh..hi, I'm Sarah" you can go in many different directions depending on your goals. In general stating that you like talking to people and being friendly and uncomplicated about it is awesome, because she will feel at ease not being picked out specifically.
And don't ask her questions at first. Deliver statements like "I like talking to new people in general" instead of putting pressure on her by asking her to answer stuff you throw out.
On December 01 2009 07:09 CharlieMurphy wrote: sound advice, thanks But Can you give a good example of an opener when a chick is just walking up to the bus stop? ("throw baby in the corner" lolol)
lol... Truth be told, anything can work as long as you project the right vibe. In fact, nowadays I get opened/touched a lot by strangers because I'm such a cheery motherfucker. And not just by hot chicks, but by old people. Who am I kidding? Only old people.
Someone who's like 10x better with girls than I am (and I'm pretty good, like B+ to A- in ICCUP terms), once gave me some solid advice. Try your hardest to get slapped by a girl.... I once literally "opened" a girl with "I just wanna motorboat those puppies" followed with my miming her exactly what motorboating is. The point of that exercise was to learn how to NOT give a shit. To learn how to speak from your gut. And to just always push the boundaries so you learn for yourself what works and what doesn't work. To this day I haven't gotten slapped. You would be surprised what you can get away with. ANYTHING.
You should try that... lol. Keep in mind that people have a million things racing through their minds during the day. You need to add tension so they PAY attention to what you SAY. Nothing's worse than them repeatedly saying "Huh? What?". So.... Let me tell you something Charlie...... You know what you should do?.... Add some tension when you approach girls in the day time.
I can't really give you an opener. The things I said to those chicks literally came to my mind as the situation arose. Again, become a master of pointing out the obvious and speaking from your gut, and that will be 10x better than any opener. Trust me.
The problem with openers is that they're again based on PUA bullshit. It's needy. You're trying to WOW her with a stupid hypothetical question or a magic trick. Whenever I watch Keys to the HIV, I mean VIP, I just want to slap those chodes across their faces. It's like watching Combat-EX. They think they know. They don't know SHIT.
Next time you see a hot girl, look around, look for things that are obvious, that are 100% fact, and something that she would agree to. Add a little tension, then point them out.
If you live in Canada, or in Toronto.... "Hey, you know what?" Her: What? "I can't believe there's ZERO snow, and it's NOVEMBER, I love it! Don't you agree?"
The point is not to wow her, but to get her to agree. Why? Because this creates a sense of familiarity and connection and this gets HER to open up. You WANT her to do more talking than YOU. Not the other way around .
What do you think about a random "Do you always walk around looking that hot? or is that just your rolled out of bed look?" Is that too forward/confusing? Then I could continue with like "yea, I saw you last week (or whatever) and I wasn't sure if you just got lucky with your getup or you were really that hot" "I guess I was right" to which she might reply "ooh, which were you right about?" .. etc
On December 01 2009 07:39 CharlieMurphy wrote: What do you think about a random "Do you always walk around looking that hot? or is that just your rolled out of bed look?" Is that too forward/confusing? Then I could continue with like "yea, I saw you last week (or whatever) and I wasn't sure if you just got lucky with your getup or you were really that hot" "I guess I was right" to which she might reply "ooh, which were you right about?" .. etc
Bad idea. You'd be giving way too much value to her off the bat, which isn't good. The idea is to go in neutral, under the radar. Doing that makes it seem like you're hitting on her, which you don't want. And saying you saw her last week is kinda weird, plus it also adds a lot of value to her and takes value from you. The reason is because she probably doesn't have any clue who you are. The fact that you remembered her so well shows that you don't have many women in your life (at least, not as attractive as her), and that's a major DLV. I know that's all "PUA bullshit" according to the guy you were talking to, but people on Keys to the VIP aren't PUAs anyway (everyone on Mystery's forums ripped on them so hard when I used to read them). Anyway, bad idea.
On December 01 2009 07:39 CharlieMurphy wrote: What do you think about a random "Do you always walk around looking that hot? or is that just your rolled out of bed look?" Is that too forward/confusing? Then I could continue with like "yea, I saw you last week (or whatever) and I wasn't sure if you just got lucky with your getup or you were really that hot" "I guess I was right" to which she might reply "ooh, which were you right about?" .. etc
Bad idea. You'd be giving way too much value to her off the bat, which isn't good. The idea is to go in neutral, under the radar. Doing that makes it seem like you're hitting on her, which you don't want. And saying you saw her last week is kinda weird, plus it also adds a lot of value to her and takes value from you. The reason is because she probably doesn't have any clue who you are. The fact that you remembered her so well shows that you don't have many women in your life (at least, not as attractive as her), and that's a major DLV. I know that's all "PUA bullshit" according to the guy you were talking to, but people on Keys to the VIP aren't PUAs anyway (everyone on Mystery's forums ripped on them so hard when I used to read them). Anyway, bad idea.
Hi, I'm the guy he was talking to. I'm WarriorMadness, nice to meet you. I don't know how the Mysteryforums are doing nowadays, but the last time I checked, the techniques they were using were as bad as anything I've seen on Keys to the VIP. But I have to agree with this. It's just plain weird and totally STALKERISH to say something like "yea, I saw you last week (or whatever) and I wasn't sure if you just got lucky with your getup or you were really that hot". Just try to imagine some girl walking up to you and saying that.... It's just plain creepy.
You're still giving her too much for way too little effort on her part. What separates you from the dozens of guys who tell her "You're so hot." "You're so beautiful." each and every day? You have to get her to make an effort... THEN you reward her with affection. You randomly see her once and all of the sudden you know her entire wardrobe off by heart? Not good!
But like I said, my advice is to stay away from the canned openers and just say something obvious.
Also, try to avoid being a keyboard jockey. I think for every 5 minutes you spend reading the advice on this thread, you should actually go out and try SOMETHING. ANYTHING.
On December 01 2009 07:45 keepITup wrote: going to the gym soon guys. hypothetical situation -- girl doing ab work on the mats, how do I approach?
im no PUA never read much except passing things here on TL, and have no interest in it, although i clearly see the value in giving people who are socially awkward, a skill set they can develop and use to potentially meet someone. So i don't know the terms and such.
keepITup, if it were me in that position i would go do ab workouts as well, and suddenly stop look over to here and say something along the lines of " you're doing that wrong", then " here let me show you " doesn't matter what it is, make something up if you have to, it's irrelevant. like for example tell here to keep here head in a certain direction, or better yet tell her she needs to sit a certain way so her "back is flat on the mat and isn't supported unevenly", and it gives you a perfect excuse to touch her, a simple hand hovering over her stomach area or shoulders and a "may I" will give you the clear.
of course you have to be intent on the task and not so much her, so control where you look. after you are clear to touch her you can poke one finger on her abs, and sit her "correctly" and tell her to do the exercise and notice how much force she is using on her ab muscles now. ( in case she says she doesn't notice any then tell her to stop using her neck and back muscles)
the beauty of this is the pain in other areas isn't BS everyone at the gym has pains in other areas, also the second you place your finger on her abs it will help her contract that area simply by pinpointing the area she "should" be targeting.
now that the ice is broken it's up to you.
things to note: if she refuse contact (remember to ask) or shuts you down, take it in stride simply say you were trying to help and meant no harm ( smiling is a plus). some women will not be attracted to you or simply don't like being talked to in the gym, luckily the latter is the minority, and the former is usually subject to change.
edit: big note Practice makes perfect, and if you REALLY concentrate on correcting her posture ( even if it is BS on your part) and basically the task at hand, it will help A LOT with the nerves.
remember hot women are just random people like you or me, and friendly advice is usually always appreciated.
EPT
And YES, I added her to my facebook as well. 
