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Hoping for a final with hive tech. Otherwise meh zvz
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On August 15 2009 06:06 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 05:06 Kyuukyuu wrote:On August 15 2009 04:29 Krackling wrote:On August 15 2009 04:10 Tien wrote:
When zergs cheese, it is out of frustration against terran cheese.
I have an extreme dislike for Fantasy. Uses way too many neo-boxer cheese rushes and I love
seeing him get bashed.
This is just me venting my frustration against Boxer 3-0 Yellow with allin scv rushes. I never
got over that. What about JD's 4pool was "out of frustration against terran cheese"? The part where he said he basically only did it because fantasy cheesed him Since when did "revenge" equate to "desperation".
Since when was "desperation" part of anything we were talking about
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On August 15 2009 08:53 iamho wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 08:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 15 2009 06:30 Foucault wrote:
How are all games crazy good?
Jaedong fucking cheesed the last 2 games, and I respect him even less now. I mean c'mon 4 pool and next game all in lings again and Fantasy made some weird wall and Jaedong got very lucky.
At least Jaedong knows how to be lame, whereas Fantasy probably would have won if the last games were straight up.
And yeah I'm kinda speaking in rage but still I think the last games were very lame. Typical ignorant T player. First off, T has the most cheesing capability out of any race, while Z has the least. Secondly, 9 pool speed is NOT cheese whatsoever. It's Fantasy's fault for building a shitty wall. JD just decided to go all-in and continue pumping Lings because he saw a window of opportunity. Thirdly, Fantasy cheesed his TWICE in the finals. Besides that, I think this proves that JD is definitely out of the slump he was going in to. You're blind if you didn't see the pure rage in his eyes - it looked like he was about ready to tear Fantasy's head off. He's back, he's pissed, and there is NO WAY that Yarnc is winning this final. With JD back and ready for vengeance, and the fact that this is the only thing he's practicing for, Yarnc should just huddle in a corner and cry in the fetal position and hope it ends quickly. People also used that "JD will destroy everyone because he's angry" crap on the MSL semis, and look how that turned out. Yarnc's zvz is still one of the best in the world, he has a decent shot of winning. edit: rofl so many people on this thread getting banned
He couldn't get the practice he wanted in the MSL. Read his interview. Yarnc's a pretty good ZvZer, but he's no strategist like Calm. JD's weak against new strategies like Mech during its inception or Fantasy's rush on Medusa.
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I, for one, love ZvZ, and I will enjoy the finals (as long as Yarnc brings his A-game and it's not just a slaughter).
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On August 15 2009 08:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 06:30 Foucault wrote:
How are all games crazy good?
Jaedong fucking cheesed the last 2 games, and I respect him even less now. I mean c'mon 4 pool and next game all in lings again and Fantasy made some weird wall and Jaedong got very lucky.
At least Jaedong knows how to be lame, whereas Fantasy probably would have won if the last games were straight up.
And yeah I'm kinda speaking in rage but still I think the last games were very lame. Typical ignorant T player. First off, T has the most cheesing capability out of any race, while Z has the least. Secondly, 9 pool speed is NOT cheese whatsoever. It's Fantasy's fault for building a shitty wall. JD just decided to go all-in and continue pumping Lings because he saw a window of opportunity. Thirdly, Fantasy cheesed his TWICE in the finals. Besides that, I think this proves that JD is definitely out of the slump he was going in to. You're blind if you didn't see the pure rage in his eyes - it looked like he was about ready to tear Fantasy's head off. He's back, he's pissed, and there is NO WAY that Yarnc is winning this final. With JD back and ready for vengeance, and the fact that this is the only thing he's practicing for, Yarnc should just huddle in a corner and cry in the fetal position and hope it ends quickly.
Too bad you can't respond but...
If I play Protoss but I never cheese, it's fine that other people cheese me based on P having the gayest cheese (which, I think, no one can deny)?
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On August 15 2009 07:45 AzureEye wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 07:41 Lebesgue wrote:
ZvZ is the most boring match-up to a lot of people.
"A lot of people" who say this turn out to be mostly Terrans. Would you rather watch an action-packed, micro-fest 10 minute game or would you rather watch a 30 minute game with slowwwww tanks that take forever to siege and re-locate with multiple bases and macro macro
Yup, you guessed it... TvT for me has the possibility of being EPIC!!! ZvZ on the other hand for me is always either boring or decent.
:[
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Braavos36374 Posts
On August 15 2009 08:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 06:30 Foucault wrote:
How are all games crazy good?
Jaedong fucking cheesed the last 2 games, and I respect him even less now. I mean c'mon 4 pool and next game all in lings again and Fantasy made some weird wall and Jaedong got very lucky.
At least Jaedong knows how to be lame, whereas Fantasy probably would have won if the last games were straight up.
And yeah I'm kinda speaking in rage but still I think the last games were very lame. Typical ignorant T player. First off, T has the most cheesing capability out of any race, while Z has the least. Secondly, 9 pool speed is NOT cheese whatsoever. It's Fantasy's fault for building a shitty wall. JD just decided to go all-in and continue pumping Lings because he saw a window of opportunity. Thirdly, Fantasy cheesed his TWICE in the finals. Besides that, I think this proves that JD is definitely out of the slump he was going in to. You're blind if you didn't see the pure rage in his eyes - it looked like he was about ready to tear Fantasy's head off. He's back, he's pissed, and there is NO WAY that Yarnc is winning this final. With JD back and ready for vengeance, and the fact that this is the only thing he's practicing for, Yarnc should just huddle in a corner and cry in the fetal position and hope it ends quickly.
errr Terran can 8 rax or bunker rush, i don't really consider a wraith build cheese
Zerg has like a half dozen all-ins it can do in ZvT and ZvP, the strongest of which is just make a lot of speedlings and a-move, sometimes succeeding even if they scout it
in PvT, Protoss can do a shitton different cheeses at the T while the Terran can only really SCV+marine rush and that only works vs 14nex (sometimes not even)
so how can T possibly have the most "cheesing capability"
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If I play Protoss but I never cheese
If you play Protoss but never cheese, then you're a worse player than if you play Protoss and sometimes cheese.
Maybe not in anonymous games on ICCUP, since players can't just know they're playing you and know you never cheese, but in pro games....
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Mad props to Jaedong for winning yet another series when his doubters thought he wouldn't be able to pull it off. Right down to the loss in game 1 and the 4-pool in game three, this was classic Jaedong. Welcome back, Tyrant. I honestly didn't think he'd win this, so I'm really happy for him.
Anyone find this series reminiscent of Jaedong vs Hwasin in the Arena MSL? Jaedong had lost his last two against Hwasin in proleague; he lost game 1 of the series looking kind of helpless; he won game 2 with superb play; he won game 3 with a 4-pool; and game 4 was just one-sided dominance (although Hwasin put up more of a fight than fantasy.)
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United States10774 Posts
On August 15 2009 08:59 BanZu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 08:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 15 2009 06:30 Foucault wrote:
How are all games crazy good?
Jaedong fucking cheesed the last 2 games, and I respect him even less now. I mean c'mon 4 pool and next game all in lings again and Fantasy made some weird wall and Jaedong got very lucky.
At least Jaedong knows how to be lame, whereas Fantasy probably would have won if the last games were straight up.
And yeah I'm kinda speaking in rage but still I think the last games were very lame. Typical ignorant T player. First off, T has the most cheesing capability out of any race, while Z has the least. Secondly, 9 pool speed is NOT cheese whatsoever. It's Fantasy's fault for building a shitty wall. JD just decided to go all-in and continue pumping Lings because he saw a window of opportunity. Thirdly, Fantasy cheesed his TWICE in the finals. Besides that, I think this proves that JD is definitely out of the slump he was going in to. You're blind if you didn't see the pure rage in his eyes - it looked like he was about ready to tear Fantasy's head off. He's back, he's pissed, and there is NO WAY that Yarnc is winning this final. With JD back and ready for vengeance, and the fact that this is the only thing he's practicing for, Yarnc should just huddle in a corner and cry in the fetal position and hope it ends quickly. Too bad you can't respond but... If I play Protoss but I never cheese, it's fine that other people cheese me based on P having the gayest cheese (which, I think, no one can deny)?
you don't know cheese until you start playing PvZs on ladder
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On August 15 2009 09:32 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 08:59 BanZu wrote:On August 15 2009 08:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 15 2009 06:30 Foucault wrote:
How are all games crazy good?
Jaedong fucking cheesed the last 2 games, and I respect him even less now. I mean c'mon 4 pool and next game all in lings again and Fantasy made some weird wall and Jaedong got very lucky.
At least Jaedong knows how to be lame, whereas Fantasy probably would have won if the last games were straight up.
And yeah I'm kinda speaking in rage but still I think the last games were very lame. Typical ignorant T player. First off, T has the most cheesing capability out of any race, while Z has the least. Secondly, 9 pool speed is NOT cheese whatsoever. It's Fantasy's fault for building a shitty wall. JD just decided to go all-in and continue pumping Lings because he saw a window of opportunity. Thirdly, Fantasy cheesed his TWICE in the finals. Besides that, I think this proves that JD is definitely out of the slump he was going in to. You're blind if you didn't see the pure rage in his eyes - it looked like he was about ready to tear Fantasy's head off. He's back, he's pissed, and there is NO WAY that Yarnc is winning this final. With JD back and ready for vengeance, and the fact that this is the only thing he's practicing for, Yarnc should just huddle in a corner and cry in the fetal position and hope it ends quickly. Too bad you can't respond but... If I play Protoss but I never cheese, it's fine that other people cheese me based on P having the gayest cheese (which, I think, no one can deny)? you don't know cheese until you start playing PvZs on ladder
so true. i get 2 hatch all in'd just about every other match. even if i see it coming sometimes i cant even defend against it xD
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On August 15 2009 09:08 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 08:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 15 2009 06:30 Foucault wrote:
How are all games crazy good?
Jaedong fucking cheesed the last 2 games, and I respect him even less now. I mean c'mon 4 pool and next game all in lings again and Fantasy made some weird wall and Jaedong got very lucky.
At least Jaedong knows how to be lame, whereas Fantasy probably would have won if the last games were straight up.
And yeah I'm kinda speaking in rage but still I think the last games were very lame. Typical ignorant T player. First off, T has the most cheesing capability out of any race, while Z has the least. Secondly, 9 pool speed is NOT cheese whatsoever. It's Fantasy's fault for building a shitty wall. JD just decided to go all-in and continue pumping Lings because he saw a window of opportunity. Thirdly, Fantasy cheesed his TWICE in the finals. Besides that, I think this proves that JD is definitely out of the slump he was going in to. You're blind if you didn't see the pure rage in his eyes - it looked like he was about ready to tear Fantasy's head off. He's back, he's pissed, and there is NO WAY that Yarnc is winning this final. With JD back and ready for vengeance, and the fact that this is the only thing he's practicing for, Yarnc should just huddle in a corner and cry in the fetal position and hope it ends quickly. errr Terran can 8 rax or bunker rush, i don't really consider a wraith build cheese Zerg has like a half dozen all-ins it can do in ZvT and ZvP, the strongest of which is just make a lot of speedlings and a-move, sometimes succeeding even if they scout it in PvT, Protoss can do a shitton different cheeses at the T while the Terran can only really SCV+marine rush and that only works vs 14nex (sometimes not even) so how can T possibly have the most "cheesing capability"
Here's a fact, Terrans cheese more than zergs, assuming that we count 8rax-> bunker rush as a cheese. Why?
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United States10774 Posts
On August 15 2009 09:59 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 09:08 Hot_Bid wrote:On August 15 2009 08:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 15 2009 06:30 Foucault wrote:
How are all games crazy good?
Jaedong fucking cheesed the last 2 games, and I respect him even less now. I mean c'mon 4 pool and next game all in lings again and Fantasy made some weird wall and Jaedong got very lucky.
At least Jaedong knows how to be lame, whereas Fantasy probably would have won if the last games were straight up.
And yeah I'm kinda speaking in rage but still I think the last games were very lame. Typical ignorant T player. First off, T has the most cheesing capability out of any race, while Z has the least. Secondly, 9 pool speed is NOT cheese whatsoever. It's Fantasy's fault for building a shitty wall. JD just decided to go all-in and continue pumping Lings because he saw a window of opportunity. Thirdly, Fantasy cheesed his TWICE in the finals. Besides that, I think this proves that JD is definitely out of the slump he was going in to. You're blind if you didn't see the pure rage in his eyes - it looked like he was about ready to tear Fantasy's head off. He's back, he's pissed, and there is NO WAY that Yarnc is winning this final. With JD back and ready for vengeance, and the fact that this is the only thing he's practicing for, Yarnc should just huddle in a corner and cry in the fetal position and hope it ends quickly. errr Terran can 8 rax or bunker rush, i don't really consider a wraith build cheese Zerg has like a half dozen all-ins it can do in ZvT and ZvP, the strongest of which is just make a lot of speedlings and a-move, sometimes succeeding even if they scout it in PvT, Protoss can do a shitton different cheeses at the T while the Terran can only really SCV+marine rush and that only works vs 14nex (sometimes not even) so how can T possibly have the most "cheesing capability" Here's a fact, Terrans cheese more than zergs, assuming that we count 8rax-> bunker rush as a cheese. Why?
haha i view the cheese cycle like this: zerg gays protoss, protoss gays terran, terran gays zerg.
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I would agree. And since there's no more protoss left anymore, zergs are getting cheesed a heck lot.
+ Show Spoiler +
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konadora
Singapore66156 Posts
Okay just watched the first game
Fantasy played really well, having so many tanks at the unexpected timing. That led to the huge loss Jaedong suffered in the first battle, and with that win, Fantasy was able to constantly cut Jaedong's expansions, keeping Jaedong at 3 base (3 gas), forcing him to go lurker/ling/defiler. But with many siege tanks, lings and lurkers die or take a ton of damage even under dark swarm, leading to the many battle wins for Fantasy.
Watching second game atm
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
Yeah, very hard for protoss to cheese zergs early game.
They compensate by going 1a2a3a4a5a.
ahahahhaaaaha
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On August 15 2009 08:20 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 08:08 Gormaol wrote:
Oh, and if anyone's keeping track, it's quite ironic and funny how there were no moderators threatening posters with suspensions in the Grand Finals thread when SKT won for rubbing it in the Oz fans faces. It'd be nice if there was a little more fairness around here. hhohohoho i didnt even see this post suggesting that a gigantic team of moderators who all love different teams are totally biased in favor of t1 somehow changin this 2 weeks to permanent, fuck off buddy don't come back
Justice is served.
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United States10774 Posts
On August 15 2009 10:23 Tien wrote:
Yeah, very hard for protoss to cheese zergs early game.
They compensate by going 1a2a3a4a5a.
ahahahhaaaaha
zergs don't even need to hotkey their masslings or one group of hydras/mutas
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On August 15 2009 10:01 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 09:59 Avidkeystamper wrote:On August 15 2009 09:08 Hot_Bid wrote:On August 15 2009 08:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 15 2009 06:30 Foucault wrote:
How are all games crazy good?
Jaedong fucking cheesed the last 2 games, and I respect him even less now. I mean c'mon 4 pool and next game all in lings again and Fantasy made some weird wall and Jaedong got very lucky.
At least Jaedong knows how to be lame, whereas Fantasy probably would have won if the last games were straight up.
And yeah I'm kinda speaking in rage but still I think the last games were very lame. Typical ignorant T player. First off, T has the most cheesing capability out of any race, while Z has the least. Secondly, 9 pool speed is NOT cheese whatsoever. It's Fantasy's fault for building a shitty wall. JD just decided to go all-in and continue pumping Lings because he saw a window of opportunity. Thirdly, Fantasy cheesed his TWICE in the finals. Besides that, I think this proves that JD is definitely out of the slump he was going in to. You're blind if you didn't see the pure rage in his eyes - it looked like he was about ready to tear Fantasy's head off. He's back, he's pissed, and there is NO WAY that Yarnc is winning this final. With JD back and ready for vengeance, and the fact that this is the only thing he's practicing for, Yarnc should just huddle in a corner and cry in the fetal position and hope it ends quickly. errr Terran can 8 rax or bunker rush, i don't really consider a wraith build cheese Zerg has like a half dozen all-ins it can do in ZvT and ZvP, the strongest of which is just make a lot of speedlings and a-move, sometimes succeeding even if they scout it in PvT, Protoss can do a shitton different cheeses at the T while the Terran can only really SCV+marine rush and that only works vs 14nex (sometimes not even) so how can T possibly have the most "cheesing capability" Here's a fact, Terrans cheese more than zergs, assuming that we count 8rax-> bunker rush as a cheese. Why? haha i view the cheese cycle like this: zerg gays protoss, protoss gays terran, terran gays zerg.
I think it really just depends. Before Fantasy-mech days, most of the TvZs were just Rax->Expansion. Which puts terran on the defensive for much of the midgame before the vessel/tank push. And instead the zergs can counter with 3-hatch/2-hatch/lurker/muta/ling break/etc.
You gotta to give the T1 think tank credit for changing the matchup so that the terran is aggressor for much of the early/mid-game. Forcing zerg to be passive. It's nice that Jaedong finally realizes the counter... 4 pool. 
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EPT
