On May 24 2009 16:01 NrG.ZaM wrote: Shiiiiiit, I didn't sleep last night and was just about to go to bed, but I hate watching VODs later so I guess I'll man through it and watch live.
Max the volume on your comp and use http://onlineclock.net/. definitely helps with power naps
On May 24 2009 16:02 zFly wrote: Is there any way to watch on a mac? I can't find a mac version of GOM player... will VLC or something similar work? :/
Yes , most of the time someone will post a VLC link in the early portions of the match.
Also I think mogulus works on mac as well and most of the time a good soul has a mogulus stream.
On May 24 2009 16:01 NrG.ZaM wrote: Shiiiiiit, I didn't sleep last night and was just about to go to bed, but I hate watching VODs later so I guess I'll man through it and watch live.
Max the volume on your comp and use http://onlineclock.net/. definitely helps with power naps
Oh man this is nice, I've already started getting a bunch of caffeine, but I'll use this another time, thanks
On May 24 2009 16:02 zFly wrote: Is there any way to watch on a mac? I can't find a mac version of GOM player... will VLC or something similar work? :/
Yes , most of the time someone will post a VLC link in the early portions of the match.
Also I think mogulus works on mac as well and most of the time a good soul has a mogulus stream.
These are the two I have saved, either of them should work. They don't change the stream link between casts, so you can continue using one of these. Actually, I don't think they even changed between seasons, just added the 2 on the end.
On May 24 2009 16:27 samachking wrote: Can anyone mogulus this please? My internet bandwith is pretty low right now since they cut the speed after a certain amount of dls.
I could Stream it on Mogulus/LiveStream if you want although I don't see how Mogulus/Livestream requires less bandwidth then the low quality GOMTV stream im pretty sure its about the same.
On May 24 2009 17:24 Ziph wrote: I could Stream it on Mogulus/LiveStream if you want although I don't see how Mogulus/Livestream requires less bandwidth then the low quality GOMTV stream im pretty sure its about the same.
I'm fairly certain mogulus streams at a lower rate than GOM. Could be wrong.
On May 24 2009 17:24 Ziph wrote: I could Stream it on Mogulus/LiveStream if you want although I don't see how Mogulus/Livestream requires less bandwidth then the low quality GOMTV stream im pretty sure its about the same.
I'm fairly certain mogulus streams at a lower rate than GOM. Could be wrong.
I'm pretty sure that the low quality GOM stream is 300Kbps and the Mogulus stream can be up to 500Kbps (unless you have pro then you can have up to 1700Kbps).
On May 24 2009 17:24 Ziph wrote: I could Stream it on Mogulus/LiveStream if you want although I don't see how Mogulus/Livestream requires less bandwidth then the low quality GOMTV stream im pretty sure its about the same.
I'm fairly certain mogulus streams at a lower rate than GOM. Could be wrong.
Mogulus runs at 10 kbps or 20 kbps, GOM runs at around 40 kbps.
I'm glad people like the banners. Unfortunately the live stream seems to be broken for me tonight. It worked fine last week but my Internet connection is inconsistent as hell. I guess I'm going to be reduced to grabbing the VODs tomorrow.
On May 24 2009 18:15 Tadzio wrote: ah... looks like they've changed how the unit counting station counts units... .hoejja's lings weren't counted 'til they hatched. I approve
nice catch
nice fix
come on HoeJJa attack go gog now!
On May 24 2009 18:15 GTR wrote: SCOURGE????????
your stream is ahead of mine i had no idea what you were talking about
On May 24 2009 18:20 GTR wrote: wow, i never knew rek was a lefty player.
I remember from before that someone said something about left handed starcraft players and someone said that Rekrul was. I am left handed but I still have the mouse on the right side.
On May 24 2009 18:20 GTR wrote: wow, i never knew rek was a lefty player.
I remember from before that someone said something about left handed starcraft players and someone said that Rekrul was. I am left handed but I still have the mouse on the right side.
same, left handed but i can't use the mouse with it at all.
They sent their zerglings to each other's base and didnt meet up, took different paths. 4 lings fought at hoejja's ramp and almost broke it, hoejja brought his lings back, made some more Calm only has 2 on gas
On May 24 2009 17:24 Ziph wrote: I could Stream it on Mogulus/LiveStream if you want although I don't see how Mogulus/Livestream requires less bandwidth then the low quality GOMTV stream im pretty sure its about the same.
On May 24 2009 17:24 Ziph wrote: I could Stream it on Mogulus/LiveStream if you want although I don't see how Mogulus/Livestream requires less bandwidth then the low quality GOMTV stream im pretty sure its about the same.
On May 24 2009 18:29 darktreb wrote: Hoejja vs. Flash in RO16 should be really interesting. Does Hoejja pull something on his teammate, or does he get rolled?
He gets rolled hard. No chance hoejja can touch Flash. Specially sense they are teammates.
Flash will be aware of all the possible "one shot wonder" strats and will simply rely on his vastly superior technical skill to roll over hoejja.
On May 24 2009 18:29 darktreb wrote: Hoejja vs. Flash in RO16 should be really interesting. Does Hoejja pull something on his teammate, or does he get rolled?
He gets rolled hard. No chance hoejja can touch Flash. Specially sense they are teammates.
Flash will be aware of all the possible "one shot wonder" strats and will simply rely on his vastly superior technical skill to roll over hoejja.
PS. Ziph where are you
Said the majorty of people about jd vs forgg, teammates you can never ever tell whats gonna happen
On May 24 2009 18:29 darktreb wrote: Hoejja vs. Flash in RO16 should be really interesting. Does Hoejja pull something on his teammate, or does he get rolled?
He gets rolled hard. No chance hoejja can touch Flash. Specially sense they are teammates.
Flash will be aware of all the possible "one shot wonder" strats and will simply rely on his vastly superior technical skill to roll over hoejja.
PS. Ziph where are you
Said the majorty of people about jd vs forgg, teammates you can never ever tell whats gonna happen
ForGG has incredibly solid mechanics though. Not the same thing.
Sure jaedong is the better player but comparing ForGG to Hoejja doesn't work.
ForGG is considered a relatively mindless macro god. So framiliarity will help him because he can be fairly confident on what jaedong is going to do. On the other hand even if hoejja knows exactly what Flash is going to do , he's still going to have a ton of trouble beating it. Note that ForGG did not use any "gimmicky" or luck based builds to gain victory. He simply countered jaedongs aggresiveness and rolled him with godly macro. Just like flash will do to hoejja;)
Also: you didn't miss the Calm games. All you missed was utter mind-game rape by HoeJJa. Calm gets out-microed or out-played fairly frequently, but I rarely see him out-thought. Then again, he sucks at ZvZ.
Streaming for noobs that can't watch vlc or mogulus, quality is pretty shit because the vlc streams suck hardcore but w/e. Shit disconnects like every 10min also dunno why but thats all i have for now.
Streaming for noobs that can't watch vlc or mogulus, quality is pretty shit because the vlc streams suck hardcore but w/e. Shit disconnects like every 10min also dunno why but thats all i have for now.
Seriously i've been watching gom for so long and still dont know what the hell this heads to heads thing represents.i guess practice games, but who the hell counts them?
On May 24 2009 18:44 toopham wrote: It's sad how BARELY anyone go watch GOMTV live.. What's the reason? Studio is too far? Not a lot of people know about it?
Is it even broadcast on TV or is this all online even in korea?
it's in an isolated place of seoul (the studio) people have work/school the next day and the games tend to go on late.
On May 24 2009 18:45 Itachii wrote: Seriously i've been watching gom for so long and still dont know what the hell this heads to heads thing represents.i guess practice games, but who the hell counts them?
On May 24 2009 18:45 Itachii wrote: Seriously i've been watching gom for so long and still dont know what the hell this heads to heads thing represents.i guess practice games, but who the hell counts them?
Head to head I would assume KeSpa counted games ie. proleague, msl, osl
Streaming for noobs that can't watch vlc or mogulus, quality is pretty shit because the vlc streams suck hardcore but w/e. Shit disconnects like every 10min also dunno why but thats all i have for now.
YES!
Even though you have unfairly called me a newb I still love you
If shuttle does a good job harassing he can do some serious damage at that far expo with sair/dt + army timing attacks. Lets see if zerg bong can prepare quickly enough. Will be tough with all the scouting information P has.
Yea just as I thought Shuttle was able to do good drone damage at the far expo. Wouldve been a lot strong though if he waited with those 3 zealots and sent them with the dt and attack with the sair at the same time. Oh well
On May 24 2009 19:06 SilverSkyLark wrote: O damn, now I know where to do 12 nex...
? no...
On god's garden you should open 10 gate first then expand in back. It allows you to early harass the drones if they FE or depend early speed lings with no need for cannons by holding zeals on the ramp.
On May 24 2009 19:18 IH4t3z3rg wrote: cannon defense or what? If Zergbong lose this is really a BAD zvp player! Zergbong should just expand or golurk drop
Ok when i said lurkdrop i did NOT MEAN a drop made in this way, ok guys? :-)
On May 24 2009 16:01 NrG.ZaM wrote: Shiiiiiit, I didn't sleep last night and was just about to go to bed, but I hate watching VODs later so I guess I'll man through it and watch live.
Max the volume on your comp and use http://onlineclock.net/. definitely helps with power naps
Oh man this is nice, I've already started getting a bunch of caffeine, but I'll use this another time, thanks
On May 24 2009 16:02 zFly wrote: Is there any way to watch on a mac? I can't find a mac version of GOM player... will VLC or something similar work? :/
Yes , most of the time someone will post a VLC link in the early portions of the match.
Also I think mogulus works on mac as well and most of the time a good soul has a mogulus stream.
These are the two I have saved, either of them should work. They don't change the stream link between casts, so you can continue using one of these. Actually, I don't think they even changed between seasons, just added the 2 on the end.
I'm hoping for a JD-Flash final but I wouldn't mind seeing jjonga pull a Tempest and steal this series from JD. He's got plenty of quality Zergs to practice against in CJ, and his Protoss teammate Movie has already given Jaedong a good run. Who knows?
Ugh, they have so many technical problems in this tournament, they really need to get these fixed. Already teams opting out of the tournament... These 20 minutes delays every week certainly don't help things...
to play the link in VLC, file -> open network, then paste the link in the MRL field. if the stream stops for some reason (as it does sometimes), just do the steps again and it should instantly be back.
On May 24 2009 19:50 zFly wrote: to play the link in VLC, file -> open network, then paste the link in the MRL field. if the stream stops for some reason (as it does sometimes), just do the steps again and it should instantly be back.
Appreciate the effort but I can't stream though media players at this house. The router is an old cheap motorola with a ridiculous firewall. Mogulus works but nothing else.
On May 24 2009 19:51 dt4ever wrote: I guess scarab would be alot more fun if I knew Korean...
true, but sometimes I still have to smile. I mean the make it a manga, seriously. All those comicgraphics and speechbubbles. and those two commentators are constantly laughing, also making me chuckle then and when
On May 24 2009 19:50 zFly wrote: to play the link in VLC, file -> open network, then paste the link in the MRL field. if the stream stops for some reason (as it does sometimes), just do the steps again and it should instantly be back.
Appreciate the effort but I can't stream though media players at this house. The router is an old cheap motorola with a ridiculous firewall. Mogulus works but nothing else.
On May 24 2009 19:39 darktreb wrote: I'm hoping for a JD-Flash final but I wouldn't mind seeing jjonga pull a Tempest and steal this series from JD. He's got plenty of quality Zergs to practice against in CJ, and his Protoss teammate Movie has already given Jaedong a good run. Who knows?
Jaedong is still the favorite in this series even down 0-1, but I'm not surprised at all. CJ is the PERFECT team to be on if you're a guy not playing much in Proleague and fully concentrating on taking down the titan.
I don't see why he built that 1 gateway in his main and that 1 proxy gateway. Those 300 minerals would have made 2 more cannons which would have prevented Jaedong from breaking.
hehe : ) He should have known this wasn't the first time Jaedong had to handle this. Can't remember what game but I remember Jaedong breaking a contain in the exact same way and then just running into his opponents base and crushing him.
On May 24 2009 20:37 Hammy wrote: hehe : ) He should have known this wasn't the first time Jaedong had to handle this. Can't remember what game but I remember Jaedong breaking a contain in the exact same way and then just running into his opponents base and crushing him.
JD vs Stork Ro8 Batoo OSL on chupung reyong, JD knows how to deal with this shit.
On May 24 2009 20:37 deathgod6 wrote: I don't see why he built that 1 gateway in his main and that 1 proxy gateway. Those 300 minerals would have made 2 more cannons which would have prevented Jaedong from breaking.
Well, Jaedong had that Overlord count Cannons from the left and made his decision based off of that. Just beautiful play by Jaedong....
On May 24 2009 20:37 deathgod6 wrote: I don't see why he built that 1 gateway in his main and that 1 proxy gateway. Those 300 minerals would have made 2 more cannons which would have prevented Jaedong from breaking.
Well, Jaedong had that Overlord count Cannons from the left and made his decision based off of that. Just beautiful play by Jaedong....
I'm just saying that it was JJonga's fault for not having enough cannons up in time to defend. But that was nice timing by Jaedong to attack at that time to snipe the individual cannons.
The gateway in main was stupid. Trade that for one cannon and the whole game is different. Add the gateway at contain and you've got two cannons, or a pylon and cannon on the ridge overlooking the Zerg base.
On May 24 2009 20:45 o[twist] wrote: The gateway in main was stupid. Trade that for one cannon and the whole game is different. Add the gateway at contain and you've got two cannons, or a pylon and cannon on the ridge overlooking the Zerg base.
I was thinking the same thing about the ridge, dunno why he didn't utilize it.
Well, the thing with only massing cannons at the front is that he can only have so many in the range of the forge. Then JD can move back and snipe that forge. And 10 hydras can take out as many as 6 or 7 cannons, so JD would only have to wait for a while. 2 hatcheries can get you surprisingly many hydras.
On May 24 2009 20:50 Shikyo wrote: Well, the thing with only massing cannons at the front is that he can only have so many in the range of the forge. Then JD can move back and snipe that forge. And 10 hydras can take out as many as 6 or 7 cannons, so JD would only have to wait for a while. 2 hatcheries can get you surprisingly many hydras.
Yeah, jjonga was preparing for his followup, but just needed to buy enough time for the 1 base P versus 1 base Z to really kick in.
On May 24 2009 20:50 Shikyo wrote: Well, the thing with only massing cannons at the front is that he can only have so many in the range of the forge. Then JD can move back and snipe that forge. And 10 hydras can take out as many as 6 or 7 cannons, so JD would only have to wait for a while. 2 hatcheries can get you surprisingly many hydras.
Yeah I believe that too. JD would have broken out regardless.
On May 24 2009 20:50 Shikyo wrote: Well, the thing with only massing cannons at the front is that he can only have so many in the range of the forge. Then JD can move back and snipe that forge. And 10 hydras can take out as many as 6 or 7 cannons, so JD would only have to wait for a while. 2 hatcheries can get you surprisingly many hydras.
Yeah, jjonga was preparing for his followup, but just needed to buy enough time for the 1 base P versus 1 base Z to really kick in.
What do you mean, 1 base toss to kick in? It will never kick in if you only mass cannons. After JD would break those cannons, Jjonga would have nothing. JD would only need enough hydras to snipe the few cannons in the range of the forge, then snipe the forge, and after that, if Jonga hadn't started pumping goons in time, he'd be completely screwed. Even if he got like 10 cannons, JD would need 18 hydras at most. After that, Jonga has no way to defend against all the hydras and lings. He really needed to get those gateways up. Maybe a tiny bit later, but massing just cannons would not have worked.
On May 24 2009 20:51 MagisterMan wrote: Could someone please summarize first 2 games? I just caught the last one of jaedong.
Would be better if you looked at the live report, but first game was on neo medusa and JD went hydra lurk. JD tried to drop in main but it was really well defended. Jjonga had really good harassment with dark temp and high temp then rolled over JD with ball of death.
Game 2 is on God's Garden and Jaedong went 5 Hatch ling, denied Jjonga his nat, then rolled him over with mutalisks.
On May 24 2009 20:51 MagisterMan wrote: Could someone please summarize first 2 games? I just caught the last one of jaedong.
Would be better if you looked at the live report, but first game was on neo medusa and JD went hydra lurk. JD tried to drop in main but it was really well defended. Jjonga had really good harassment with dark temp and high temp then rolled over JD with ball of death.
Game 2 is on God's Garden and Jaedong went 5 Hatch ling, denied Jjonga his nat, then rolled him over with mutalisks.
On May 24 2009 20:43 GTR wrote: this game was more jjonga's loss than jaedong's win.
i dont agree with that shit at all.
had jjonga committed more to cannons, his economy and tech wouldve been fucked. JD simply attacked right when jjonga got greedy and stopped adding cannons. jjonga deciding to add to eco/tech instead of cannnons wasnt a mistake, it was a decision, and JD capitalized on it.
2 hatcheries on 1 base for zerg isnt nearly as dire as you guys seem to think. remember, if toss is adding cannons it means his main base is getting probes cut and he's not teching.
to those questioning building the gateway, it was obviously for a zealot so lings didnt simply stream in and surround the cannons.
sure, in retrospect it seems obvious that jjonga shouldve added cannons, it only seems this way beacuse jaedong was constantly adding drones and teching his hydras, and as soon as jjonga stopped the cannon production he would simply attack and break out. had jjonga added more cannons, jaedong would simply delay his attack, knowing that as long as he keeps up drone and hatchery production he will be ahead of jjonga by the time he breaks out.
you guys are taking way too much credit away from JD
On May 24 2009 20:43 samachking wrote: JD cannot be cheesed ZvP, when will they learn? Didnt Jjonga see his game vs Stork on chupung?
that was nothing compared to Jaedong vs LuCifer on Colosseum Arena MSL game 2. That game showed why Jaedong is TheTyrant.
Ofc, I know about the lucifer game, but i mentioned the Stork game specifically because it was the exact same build. Also JD has some really sick winrate vs Protoss 1 base play, almost every game I see a P cheese him or play 1 base they lose.
On May 24 2009 20:43 GTR wrote: this game was more jjonga's loss than jaedong's win.
i dont agree with that shit at all.
had jjonga committed more to cannons, his economy and tech wouldve been fucked. JD simply attacked right when jjonga got greedy and stopped adding cannons. jjonga deciding to add to eco/tech instead of cannnons wasnt a mistake, it was a decision, and JD capitalized on it.
2 hatcheries on 1 base for zerg isnt nearly as dire as you guys seem to think. remember, if toss is adding cannons it means his main base is getting probes cut and he's not teching.
to those questioning building the gateway, it was obviously for a zealot so lings didnt simply stream in and surround the cannons.
sure, in retrospect it seems obvious that jjonga shouldve added cannons, it only seems this way beacuse jaedong was constantly adding drones and teching his hydras, and as soon as jjonga stopped the cannon production he would simply attack and break out. had jjonga added more cannons, jaedong would simply delay his attack, knowing that as long as he keeps up drone and hatchery production he will be ahead of jjonga by the time he breaks out.
you guys are taking way too much credit away from JD
Yeah, only jaedong haters would say jjonga gave the game away.
On May 24 2009 20:43 GTR wrote: this game was more jjonga's loss than jaedong's win.
i dont agree with that shit at all.
had jjonga committed more to cannons, his economy and tech wouldve been fucked. JD simply attacked right when jjonga got greedy and stopped adding cannons. jjonga deciding to add to eco/tech instead of cannnons wasnt a mistake, it was a decision, and JD capitalized on it.
2 hatcheries on 1 base for zerg isnt nearly as dire as you guys seem to think. remember, if toss is adding cannons it means his main base is getting probes cut and he's not teching.
to those questioning building the gateway, it was obviously for a zealot so lings didnt simply stream in and surround the cannons.
sure, in retrospect it seems obvious that jjonga shouldve added cannons, it only seems this way beacuse jaedong was constantly adding drones and teching his hydras, and as soon as jjonga stopped the cannon production he would simply attack and break out. had jjonga added more cannons, jaedong would simply delay his attack, knowing that as long as he keeps up drone and hatchery production he will be ahead of jjonga by the time he breaks out.
you guys are taking way too much credit away from JD
Yeah, only jaedong haters would say jjonga gave the game away.
if there was one single person in the world I would NEVER try to cannon-break it's Much. Doesn't Falcon know he's got probably the best probe micro in the progaming scene?
On May 24 2009 21:10 GinNtoniC wrote: if there was one single person in the world I would NEVER try to cannon-break it's Much. Doesn't Falcon know he's got probably the best probe micro in the progaming scene?
I remember him on Desti a couple weeks ago, blew my mind.
On May 24 2009 20:50 Shikyo wrote: Well, the thing with only massing cannons at the front is that he can only have so many in the range of the forge. Then JD can move back and snipe that forge. And 10 hydras can take out as many as 6 or 7 cannons, so JD would only have to wait for a while. 2 hatcheries can get you surprisingly many hydras.
Yeah, jjonga was preparing for his followup, but just needed to buy enough time for the 1 base P versus 1 base Z to really kick in.
What do you mean, 1 base toss to kick in? It will never kick in if you only mass cannons. After JD would break those cannons, Jjonga would have nothing. JD would only need enough hydras to snipe the few cannons in the range of the forge, then snipe the forge, and after that, if Jonga hadn't started pumping goons in time, he'd be completely screwed. Even if he got like 10 cannons, JD would need 18 hydras at most. After that, Jonga has no way to defend against all the hydras and lings. He really needed to get those gateways up. Maybe a tiny bit later, but massing just cannons would not have worked.
That was my point - I was agreeing with you. No amount of Cannons will actually win the game for you - the point of the Cannon contain is that by the time Zerg breaks out, you've got a real one base army going, and it turns into essentially one base P versus one base Z.
Much put on a 2 hatch hydra defense clinic. Despite not scouting it until well after the sair was out and the hydras were at the front he blocked the front and the back entrances.
On May 24 2009 21:14 Noah wrote: Wasn't that GG way too premature?
Given the number of Drones Falcon had (not enough to reinforce), a stream of speed Zealots at that point off of the 4 or 5 Gateways Much had would have ended the game in another minute anyway.
Should be some good games next week - KTF battle between "on fire" Violet and "can this guy get any worse" Luxury. Also Effort versus Mind should be really really good.
Wow, HoeJJa won 2:0 against Calm?! I knew Calm is bad in ZvZ but still. HoeJJa has pretty weak ZvZ as well... And for some reason he went 4:0 in ZvZ in Gom lol while outside Gom he never won in this match-up.
On May 25 2009 01:38 Lebesgue wrote: Wow, HoeJJa won 2:0 against Calm?! I knew Calm is bad in ZvZ but still. HoeJJa has pretty weak ZvZ as well... And for some reason he went 4:0 in ZvZ in Gom lol while outside Gom he never won in this match-up.
Most of his non-Gom matchups were pretty tough ones, to be fair. Who expects a mediocre ZvZ player to take games off Hyvaa(though he did in minor league) Jaedong, Zero, etc?
He's got a couple bad losses aside from that in Hogil and Juni, but it's been a pretty mean gauntlet for him.
On May 24 2009 20:50 Shikyo wrote: Well, the thing with only massing cannons at the front is that he can only have so many in the range of the forge. Then JD can move back and snipe that forge. And 10 hydras can take out as many as 6 or 7 cannons, so JD would only have to wait for a while. 2 hatcheries can get you surprisingly many hydras.
Yep, not to mention the gateway in the main would probably have meant just another WARPING cannon which would have done nothing (I am going by memory for timings here, though).
All these people trying to sound smart by just blindly calling it jjonga's loss, gawd. The zealot though, that was probably a bad choice =p
On May 25 2009 01:38 Lebesgue wrote: Wow, HoeJJa won 2:0 against Calm?! I knew Calm is bad in ZvZ but still. HoeJJa has pretty weak ZvZ as well... And for some reason he went 4:0 in ZvZ in Gom lol while outside Gom he never won in this match-up.
There's your answer.
I don't really get it. Do you imply that: 1. HoeJJa cares much more for Gom than proleague 2. Players generally do not care for gom (so Calm did not prepare for it) 3. It is just gom (lots of suprises) or sth else
On May 25 2009 01:38 Lebesgue wrote: Wow, HoeJJa won 2:0 against Calm?! I knew Calm is bad in ZvZ but still. HoeJJa has pretty weak ZvZ as well... And for some reason he went 4:0 in ZvZ in Gom lol while outside Gom he never won in this match-up.
There's your answer.
I don't really get it. Do you imply that: 1. HoeJJa cares much more for Gom than proleague 2. Players generally do not care for gom (so Calm did not prepare for it) 3. It is just gom (lots of suprises) or sth else
On May 25 2009 01:38 Lebesgue wrote: Wow, HoeJJa won 2:0 against Calm?! I knew Calm is bad in ZvZ but still. HoeJJa has pretty weak ZvZ as well... And for some reason he went 4:0 in ZvZ in Gom lol while outside Gom he never won in this match-up.
There's your answer.
I don't really get it. Do you imply that: 1. HoeJJa cares much more for Gom than proleague 2. Players generally do not care for gom (so Calm did not prepare for it) 3. It is just gom (lots of suprises) or sth else
Hoejjjjaaaaa! Super surprised he 2-0'ed Calm. I really hope he turns out to be someone good at SC and not just someone getting lucky. KTF needs some new talent.
damnit folks, I just read the livereports for jaedong vs jjonga and I was so nervous coz you couldn't make up your mind on who was ahead! Yes im partially talking to you Deconduo; "looks like jaedong is in trouble", "Jaedong is fucked i think" , "Jaedong blah blah"! You're not good for my bloodpreassure!
On May 25 2009 20:24 StylishVODs wrote: damnit folks, I just read the livereports for jaedong vs jjonga and I was so nervous coz you couldn't make up your mind on who was ahead! Yes im partially talking to you Deconduo; "looks like jaedong is in trouble", "Jaedong is fucked i think" , "Jaedong blah blah"! You're not good for my bloodpreassure!
On May 24 2009 20:37 deathgod6 wrote: I don't see why he built that 1 gateway in his main and that 1 proxy gateway. Those 300 minerals would have made 2 more cannons which would have prevented Jaedong from breaking.
Well, Jaedong had that Overlord count Cannons from the left and made his decision based off of that. Just beautiful play by Jaedong....
I'm just saying that it was JJonga's fault for not having enough cannons up in time to defend. But that was nice timing by Jaedong to attack at that time to snipe the individual cannons.
Dude, stop saying JJonga threw the game away. Jaedong obviously counted the cannons with his ovie which allowed him to think how many hydras he would need. If JJonga didn't make those gateways and instead made more cannons, Jaedong would have just made more hydras to compensate for extra cannons. Jjonga went for gateway so that he could tech earlier. Jaedong would be bound to go mutas so Jjonga had no choice to go but to get core and tech. And making Jaedong stay in his base a minute longer wouldn't really do anything since Jjong was also running on 1 base. It's not like he was expanding
On May 24 2009 20:37 deathgod6 wrote: I don't see why he built that 1 gateway in his main and that 1 proxy gateway. Those 300 minerals would have made 2 more cannons which would have prevented Jaedong from breaking.
Well, Jaedong had that Overlord count Cannons from the left and made his decision based off of that. Just beautiful play by Jaedong....
I'm just saying that it was JJonga's fault for not having enough cannons up in time to defend. But that was nice timing by Jaedong to attack at that time to snipe the individual cannons.
Dude, stop saying JJonga threw the game away. Jaedong obviously counted the cannons with his ovie which allowed him to think how many hydras he would need. If JJonga didn't make those gateways and instead made more cannons, Jaedong would have just made more hydras to compensate for extra cannons. Jjonga went for gateway so that he could tech earlier. Jaedong would be bound to go mutas so Jjonga had no choice to go but to get core and tech. And making Jaedong stay in his base a minute longer wouldn't really do anything since Jjong was also running on 1 base. It's not like he was expanding
The second gateway JJonga made in his main = totally stupid considering there was no lair. Make 10 cannons at your choke.
On May 24 2009 20:37 deathgod6 wrote: I don't see why he built that 1 gateway in his main and that 1 proxy gateway. Those 300 minerals would have made 2 more cannons which would have prevented Jaedong from breaking.
Well, Jaedong had that Overlord count Cannons from the left and made his decision based off of that. Just beautiful play by Jaedong....
I'm just saying that it was JJonga's fault for not having enough cannons up in time to defend. But that was nice timing by Jaedong to attack at that time to snipe the individual cannons.
Dude, stop saying JJonga threw the game away. Jaedong obviously counted the cannons with his ovie which allowed him to think how many hydras he would need. If JJonga didn't make those gateways and instead made more cannons, Jaedong would have just made more hydras to compensate for extra cannons. Jjonga went for gateway so that he could tech earlier. Jaedong would be bound to go mutas so Jjonga had no choice to go but to get core and tech. And making Jaedong stay in his base a minute longer wouldn't really do anything since Jjong was also running on 1 base. It's not like he was expanding
The second gateway JJonga made in his main = totally stupid considering there was no lair. Make 10 cannons at your choke.
Tech to templar.
Win =]
There is no way he could have made all those 10 cannons in time until JD got range, at which point the forge was going to go down. After that, JD just needed to get, say, 12 hydras and he could have easily taken all the cannons out. 2h hydra can be run comfortably off 1 base, especially if you only get 4 zerglings early on. You only need about 15 drones total for it.
After all those cannons got destroyed, he wouldn't have had anything in his main, and would have lost the game. Without being able to pull probes to help, you only need like 10 hydras vs 7-8 cannons and so on. They really destroy them extremely easily.
The second gateway, as well as the zealot, were COMPLETELY wasted. I mean honestly, why on earth did he make a zealot?
If he had instead made 2 more cannons, Jaedong would not have been able to break the frontmost cannons the way he did, and thus JJonga would have ample time to mass even more cannons.
Maybe it's not a guaranteed win, back in the day I mostly used this build for Ride of Valkyries which has a ramp, and I went 2 gate @ their ramp, but the situation is mostly the same. And JJonga had the advantage of having a very succesful early game (forcing the hatch cancellation).
The entrance is fairly small, so as long as he can hold him off until he gets a nice wide arch far enough back, IMO he should hold.
EPT![[image loading]](/staff/Tadzio/GOMS3/aiclassic3w.png)
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Which I do.![[image loading]](http://www.osakaryu.kr/starcraft/unit/u_p_shuttle.gif)
![[image loading]](http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:xmxigWfO7GcuRM:http://www.bluntbros.com/prodimages/RE-04/thumbs/RE-804.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i40.tinypic.com/kapp3p.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i40.tinypic.com/30coayt.jpg)
