EPT[MSL] Ro16 Week 2-1 - Page 77
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
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ichimarugin680
United States182 Posts
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
On February 20 2009 03:34 .risingdragoon wrote: Ok I've seen the games now. I was rash calling savior a cheesy bitch. His 9pool, stupid chancy shit against the standard 1rax cc opening is actually pretty good on a mech terran like upmagic. Dude got caught the 2nd time going double cc. Economic opening is not cheese though. I'm gonna have to do a writeup on this whole cheese business. A normal economic opening is not cheese. Ex: forge FE, 12 hatch, 1rax CC 14CC is definitely 'economic cheese.' | ||
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Kyuukyuu
Canada6263 Posts
if nada / savior drop out next round then i'll probably not watch the rest lol | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
On February 20 2009 04:39 Fontong wrote: A normal economic opening is not cheese. Ex: forge FE, 12 hatch, 1rax CC 14CC is definitely 'economic cheese.' There's no such thing as economic cheese, that defies the meaning of cheese. Anyway wait for the writeup. | ||
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
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Descent
1244 Posts
Edit: Wait...results say Lux won, Liquibet says Hwasin won. =( Edit 2: Liquibets were only for Game 2s, hm. =/ | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On February 20 2009 04:49 Jyvblamo wrote: I see a lot of people here have double standards when it comes to cheesing and their favourite players. I agree, I always counted cheese as a far earlier then normal production facility not inside the main. A BBS proxy is a cheese, a BBS in the main... well no one really does that but I wouldn't really consider that cheese. Easy to scout. A 9 pool never was and never has been cheese. It's always been a viable build, especially against a mech terran. Now it's still bleh that Savior really only won that game because of BO but that should get the message across that mech terrans can't always 14 CC. Upmagic didn't 14 CC the first time Savior went 9 pool and lasted a great deal longer. | ||
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Zozma
United States1626 Posts
On February 20 2009 04:49 Jyvblamo wrote: Not at all. I see a lot of people here have double standards when it comes to cheesing and their favourite players. It's just that when Upmagic opens 14 cc vs. Savior, it's a cowardly cheese move. When Leta opens BBS against Flash, it's a clever strategy. Just the facts. | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
He went double CC into double rax. Double. Rax. DOUBLE. DOUBLE. Man I'd love to know what would've gone down if he showed what he practiced. | ||
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v-.-v
Canada28 Posts
cheese for the win | ||
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DreaM)XeRO
Korea (South)4667 Posts
Well as much as i love Savior, i was still pulling for UpMagiC. Well, GG from the Maestro 2.0 Leta vs Flash 2-1 Flash TT.TT i guess the WL and double starleagues are killing you Hwasin vs Luxury 1-2 Well. Hwasin had to run out of feul somewhere. GJ to Lux for keeping his flame alive. GOGO MSL WIN Free vs ForGG 1-2 Free...you lost to ForGG?? Really? I want to cheer for you man, but you're making me miserable | ||
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Lukeeze[zR]
Switzerland6838 Posts
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
got beat by ggplay in the OSL last time.... he'll learn :D | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
On February 20 2009 04:42 .risingdragoon wrote: There's no such thing as economic cheese, that defies the meaning of cheese. Anyway wait for the writeup. 14cc is definitely cheese, as is 5pool and BBS. 14nex usually is cheese in PvT, but sometimes it isn't on certain maps, because it doesn't lose to standard TvP (factory). on some maps 14nex can defend everything but a BBS (see Medusa or Katrina). 9 pool, especially without gas ZvT, is NOT cheese in any way, regardless of whether Upmagic is a mech terran or not. 14cc is not an "economic opening", it's just as cheesy as 5pool. Are you saying 5 hatches before pool or 3 nexus before gate is not cheese because its an "economic opening"? That's ridiculous. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
On February 20 2009 05:25 .risingdragoon wrote: Nobody even talked about the crazy build Upmagic did in game 3, just cus he lost early BO w/ the cc. He went double CC into double rax. Double. Rax. DOUBLE. DOUBLE. Man I'd love to know what would've gone down if he showed what he practiced. i suspect, and this is taking a wild uneducated guess, that he would've gotten gas, an academy, and several marines and medics, then tried to attack. | ||
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
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DreaM)XeRO
Korea (South)4667 Posts
On February 20 2009 05:46 Hot_Bid wrote: 14cc is definitely cheese, as is 5pool and BBS. 14nex usually is cheese in PvT, but sometimes it isn't on certain maps, because it doesn't lose to standard TvP (factory). on some maps 14nex can defend everything but a BBS (see Medusa or Katrina). 9 pool, especially without gas ZvT, is NOT cheese in any way, regardless of whether Upmagic is a mech terran or not. 14cc is not an "economic opening", it's just as cheesy as 5pool. Are you saying 5 hatches before pool or 3 nexus before gate is not cheese because its an "economic opening"? That's ridiculous. I think it's less of a cheese, then more of a risky opening. In my definition of "cheese" it is a build order to get the maximun number of units into an opponents base, with the opponent not knowing what is coming. 5 pool fits that , as does BBS. but 14 nex just secures an early expansion, much like a 14 nex or a 12 hatch. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
On February 20 2009 05:49 DreaM)XeRO wrote: I think it's less of a cheese, then more of a risky opening. In my definition of "cheese" it is a build order to get the maximun number of units into an opponents base, with the opponent not knowing what is coming. 5 pool fits that , as does BBS. but 14 nex just secures an early expansion, much like a 14 nex or a 12 hatch. that's like saying oh, 14cc behaves exactly like a cheese build, in that if its scouted its 100% dead, and its basically 50/50 regardless of what the opponent does, but lets call it a "risky opening" instead of "cheese." you're just making up a definition that fits what you want. changing the definition of cheese doesn't make 14cc not cheese, your definition of it is just wrong. its like me saying hey 14nex is not really 14nex, its really 2 gate, if 2 gate meant 14nex. | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On February 20 2009 05:47 Hot_Bid wrote: i suspect, and this is taking a wild uneducated guess, that he would've gotten gas, an academy, and several marines and medics, then tried to attack. You're actually advocating that UpmagiC might have gone MnM??!!?!?!?! See the shock of him going double rax (as if this were a totally uncommon build) is really a showing that Upmagic never really does anything but mech, yea I would have been interested in seeing his MnM push myself. Is his control with MnM so bad? Is that why he avoids it? | ||
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