EPT
Thats my captain rocking it out!
[WL] Samsung KHAN vs SKT T1 - Page 48
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
Thats my captain rocking it out! | ||
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Itachii
Poland12466 Posts
Its about fucking time Samsung! <3 It was the only time i voted against them and of course they had to win ~.~Guess Ill stick to my old rule. Can't wait for GOM's finals, till today i though it would be easy 3-0 for Bisu but considering Jangbi's performance its going to be damm nice PvP:O | ||
disciple
9070 Posts
The map really delayed bisu's loss but because of the map again KTY failed to capitalize his huge upgrade advantage and lost the first big battle because of his poor unit position. Once jangbi got the advantage he played absolutely brilliant giving no chance to bisu for a comeback. My overall impression is that JangBi just like Best cant drop a pvp game once he gets the upper hand, todays game and game 1 on athena in the MSL finals are to prove my statement. I think jangbi may very much get the games on destination and colosseum in the upcoming finals, but since medusa will be played twice I think KTY still has the upper hand. And he is the better player overall ofc , no question about that | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On February 05 2009 03:28 zhaoli86 wrote: Of course it's always a risk. ANYTHING can be risky in starcraft, it's just that 14 nex on medusa most of the times puts the player ahead in progaming. What's so hard to understand? Can you honestly find another map where toss players fast nex more often? Katrina? Talk about completely missing the point. PMed you. | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On February 04 2009 16:26 OneOther wrote: Well, 2 fact is still a counter to 14 Nex, even on Medusa. I agree it's not as good as it would be on other maps, but that doesn't change the fact it's a counter. 14 Nex is certainly not way AHEAD of 2 fact, because there's always that timing window where one tiny micro mistake will result in a loss. (3 Tanks + vultures running) Of course, if Protoss defends successfully, he will be ahead. The Terran can win with micro. It is definitely NOT a rock paper scissors situation where 14 Nex is automatically ahead of 2 fact. No, no, no. 14 Nex is always a risk vs 2 fact. The thing is that it's EASIER to defend it on Medusa. See? Just because something is imbalanced doesn't mean it's ok by saying "but the other dude CAN still win, so it's ok!" | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
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mog87
United States1586 Posts
No hes Pusan 2.0, storks pvz is kinda bad but it has some redeeming features...like his godly sair/reaver where as Best gets his shuttle sniped as soon as he moves out like almost everytime. His PvZ is proportionately horrible compared to his skill level/the rest of his matchups. | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
On February 05 2009 03:28 zhaoli86 wrote: Of course it's always a risk. ANYTHING can be risky in starcraft, it's just that 14 nex on medusa most of the times puts the player ahead in progaming. What's so hard to understand? Can you honestly find another map where toss players fast nex more often? Katrina? On February 05 2009 11:02 Zoler wrote: The thing is that it's EASIER to defend it on Medusa. See? Just because something is imbalanced doesn't mean it's ok by saying "but the other dude CAN still win, so it's ok!" I've always thought that the definition of a "counter" is simply how a player should respond given a situation, and doesn't imply lack of risk. i.e. goliaths to counter carriers, BCs to counter seige lines, etc. And that the term "hard counter" denotes a build that outclasses another one, i.e. BBS > 14 Nex or 12 pool > 9 pool. So I can't see why 2 Factory push is not a counter to 14 Nexus. It is and Fantasy demonstrated that with authority. He lost the game because he couldn't defend Jangbi's harrass, which was just unbelievably good. But he was definitely winning after clearing out Jangbi's base of basically all probes. | ||
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iloahz
United States964 Posts
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On February 05 2009 12:02 baubo wrote: I've always thought that the definition of a "counter" is simply how a player should respond given a situation, and doesn't imply lack of risk. i.e. goliaths to counter carriers, BCs to counter seige lines, etc. And that the term "hard counter" denotes a build that outclasses another one, i.e. BBS > 14 Nex or 12 pool > 9 pool. So I can't see why 2 Factory push is not a counter to 14 Nexus. It is and Fantasy demonstrated that with authority. He lost the game because he couldn't defend Jangbi's harrass, which was just unbelievably good. But he was definitely winning after clearing out Jangbi's base of basically all probes. Yeah, my mistake, the thing I (and Hot_Bid too, I guess) meant was that it's not as a strong "counter" as on other maps. In many other maps it gives the terran the advantage to attack while on maps like Medusa the advantage it's not nearly as great and may even sometimes give the advantage to the protoss. | ||
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[AhunGrY]MelOn
United States357 Posts
the rush distance isnt that big the wide open, unbuildable center doesnt come into play in a 2 fact rush | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
On February 05 2009 12:31 [AhunGrY]MelOn wrote: hmm what makes 2 fact weaker on medusa the rush distance isnt that big the wide open, unbuildable center doesnt come into play in a 2 fact rush I don't play TvP, but I believe that the first phase of a 2 fact push involves boxing the protoss player in before they have a military or tech advantage. The backdoor on Medusa allows the protoss to flank against a 2 fact push, dramatically lowering its effectiveness. | ||
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bias-
United States410 Posts
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baubo
China3370 Posts
On February 05 2009 12:20 Zoler wrote: Yeah, my mistake, the thing I (and Hot_Bid too, I guess) meant was that it's not as a strong "counter" as on other maps. In many other maps it gives the terran the advantage to attack while on maps like Medusa the advantage it's not nearly as great and may even sometimes give the advantage to the protoss. I think what OneOther took issue with was how Hot_Bid basically stated that 14 Nex BEATS 2 Factory Push, as in just being superior. Everyone's in agreement that Medusa's more conducive to 14 Nex behind the main because it is easier to defend against a 2 Fact push than normal maps. Especially if you're Jangbi and you have godly mechanics. Still doesn't mean it automatically beats 2 Fac. On February 05 2009 12:36 Avidkeystamper wrote: I don't play TvP, but I believe that the first phase of a 2 fact push involves boxing the protoss player in before they have a military or tech advantage. The backdoor on Medusa allows the protoss to flank against a 2 fact push, dramatically lowering its effectiveness. Actually Fantasy used the backdoor quite nicely in this game, drawing the protoss forces back in fear of the tanks seiging on the high ground behind the main, and then attacked through the front. And a flank isn't really feasible. The travel distance from the normal gateway location all the way to the back of the base and circle to the front is quite long. | ||
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ensia
Korea (South)21 Posts
PLZ understand my BAD English :o but i hope you guys can understand what i sayin. It will be welcomed if any1 correct my mistakes! --------------- Q: In game vs Bisu, It was not so good situation in early game, right? A: Yes, It was not so good in the opening part. His build was good, and Zealot's speed upgrade was too late cuz Adun didn't work cuz Pylon was destroyed when Bisu's 2 shuttle harassment. I was absolutely out of my mind that time. but after destroy Bisu's Nexus in 5 o'clock, I felt much comfortable. Q : You saved lot of proves with fast response time like a monster. A : Minimap is key for shortening response time. Q: Game vs Fantasy looks so hard. A: He played game like Berserk. He was so agressive in that game. It was not so serious attack first time, but I got big damage from 2 spider mine. And I thought he will attack from back street, but he didn't. I went wrong after that Q: You got serious Prove damage from Vulture attack. A: I thougt It was unfavorable, but when I saw his base with Observer I realize that he didn't hav so much forces that time. I thought that I still have a chance for counter attack, and That was right. If he had 4 Siege tank at that time, I would have pretty hard time. + Show Spoiler + - 김택용과의 대결에서는 출발이 좋지 않았다 ▲ 초반부터 굉장히 말렸다. 상대 빌드도 좋았고, 2셔틀 견제가 왔을 때 파일런이 깨져서 아둔이 작동하지 않아서 질럿의 발업도 늦었다. 정신이 하나도 없었다. 김택용 선수의 5시 넥서스를 파괴한 뒤에는 할 만해졌다고 생각했다. - 괴물 같은 반응 속도로 프로브들을 살리던데 ▲ 미니맵을 잘 보는 수 밖에 없다. 미니맵만 잘 보면 반응도 빨라진다. 그것이 비결이다. - 정명훈과의 대결은 굉장히 힘들었을 것 같다 ▲ (정)명훈이와 경기를 하면서 (변)형태 선수와 경기를 하는 것 같았다. 명훈이의 공격 성향도 정말 장난이 아니더라. 원래 쉽게 막을 수 있는 병력이었는데 스파이더 마인 2번이 제대로 터지면서 큰 피해를 입고 말았다. 뒷길을 공략하는 줄 알았는데 아니었다. 그 직후에 완전히 말렸다. - 벌처 공격에 프로브 피해를 크게 입었는데 ▲ 불리하다고 생각은 했는데 옵저버로 상대의 본진을 보니 병력이 별로 없더라. 한 타이밍이 있다고 생각했는데 제대로 먹혔다. 아마 상대가 그 때 시즈탱크 4기 정도를 확보하고 있었다면 내가 힘들었을 것이다. from fomos.kr | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On February 05 2009 13:37 bias- wrote: you all should just request lilsuzie to ask jangbi IN PERSON why his counter worked so well, or better yet fantasy The counter worked well because Fantasy didn't have proper defenses. He had 3 goliaths, the units he were needing at that moment was tanks. On top of that he should have blocked the entrance better with buildings. | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
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roadrunner_sc
United States1220 Posts
All these Khan fanboyism is absolutedly nauseating. The entire live report's turned into a flame thread for the other team. Guess you can't really be a true khan fan without turning into an obnoxious prat. Thanks for that good summary of the last game Hotbid, it's a nice reminder not all verterans can be so petty or get retarded biased. edit: thx Ensia! Translations are always awesome. | ||
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