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On January 14 2009 21:25 adelarge wrote:My words exactly, I have no idea why are people so pumped about JD's ZvZ winning percentage... You guys are ridiculously ignorant, it is making me facepalm. Jaedong wins because of his massive amounts of skill. 80% winning percentage DOES NOT occur randomly, if ZvZ was just a toss up, which it is not then you would expect JD to have something like 50% ZvZ.
Have you seen Jaedong's games? There are several where he 12 hatches against a 9 pool and still wins. The reason he lost this time was because he was greedy on a 2 player map, I have no doubt that he would have won if he had gone 12 pool or overpool.
Luxury's ZvZ back from when he was winning more was just as convincing, many times the games were one sided rapes just like Jaedong's games.
Just because ZvZs are short does not mean that winning them means nothing.
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United States12607 Posts
On January 14 2009 20:26 MrHoon wrote:Korean Netizen Strike again Show nested quote +Zero: I would like to thank Luxury for telling me which BO I should use and various other tips. If it wasn't for him I probably would've lost today. Netizenstfu lux and practice your own goddamn game. Netizenlol concentrate on your own games lux you fucking suck right now. NetizenI am a luxury fan... But yeah lux, you have other things to worry ;; Netizenlol luxury Netizenif Luxury does bad at Winner's League they should send him back to sparkys. NetizenIsn't this a Zero interview? NetizenIts been a while since luxury did any interviews because he kept losing so this is the only way we can post about him Netizen^^^ Oh god thats so sad but funny NetizenLOL lux fans.
HEHE! So true...
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Ouch Savior lost to someone who got beat by Child...
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umm I'm pretty sure jaedong went something like 13 pool/gas into 12 hat or 12 pool/gas same time. Not 12 hat
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On January 15 2009 01:29 Fontong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2009 21:25 adelarge wrote:On January 14 2009 14:34 Highways wrote: Winning zvz means nothing. My words exactly, I have no idea why are people so pumped about JD's ZvZ winning percentage... You guys are ridiculously ignorant, it is making me facepalm. Jaedong wins because of his massive amounts of skill. 80% winning percentage DOES NOT occur randomly, if ZvZ was just a toss up, which it is not then you would expect JD to have something like 50% ZvZ. Have you seen Jaedong's games? There are several where he 12 hatches against a 9 pool and still wins. The reason he lost this time was because he was greedy on a 2 player map, I have no doubt that he would have won if he had gone 12 pool or overpool. Luxury's ZvZ back from when he was winning more was just as convincing, many times the games were one sided rapes just like Jaedong's games. Just because ZvZs are short does not mean that winning them means nothing.
Do you realize I was joking?
edit: To be more specific...Highways is probably a huge JD's fan. I think he actually tried to DEFEND Jaedong. In a way "One ZvZ win means nothing, it's his play and the 80% winning percentage which makes JD so unique, so don't jump on any conclusion about Zero's ZvZ just because he beaten him today". Yet, he structured his post in such a way that totally disregards JD's strongest matchup. I just couldn't resist to reply .
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Oh, Zero. Loses to Justin then beats Jaedong two days later.
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United States10774 Posts
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Right I'm an absolute noob get owned day in day out but this is what i thought. You can tell me why I am wrong if you like .
Just talking about Jaedongs game; I thought Jaedong could have had that if he built more mutas instead of scouge. He built at least 8 scouge first so 4 lots of scouge. The other guy whats his name Zero was first to put up his spire so maybe he might have felt he needed scouge to counter the mutas been out first. But if he just built mutas first he would have been about equal in the muta fight and probably out microed the guy.
I'm probably wrong because either he didn't have enough psi because his overlord got sniped or some other reason.like not enough vesapene gas. But i just don't know why he built so many scouge, they just got snipped one by one. Maybe he thought the other guy was a noob and could micro against scouge I don't know i just remember been surprised when the scouge popped out and thinking what, really. That many scouge.
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Lol, Sorry to reply to my own post but has anyone seen what Lecaf's (the company not the team) catch phrase is. Anytime sports!, lol thats brilliantly ironic.
I probably should have read all of this thread before posting at the end because I'm sure what I've said must have been spotted by someone else.
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On January 15 2009 10:05 Gerg_N wrote: Right I'm an absolute noob get owned day in day out but this is what i thought. You can tell me why I am wrong if you like .
Just talking about Jaedongs game; I thought Jaedong could have had that if he built more mutas instead of scouge. He built at least 8 scouge first so 4 lots of scouge. The other guy whats his name Zero was first to put up his spire so maybe he might have felt he needed scouge to counter the mutas been out first. But if he just built mutas first he would have been about equal in the muta fight and probably out microed the guy.
I'm probably wrong because either he didn't have enough psi because his overlord got sniped or some other reason.like not enough vesapene gas. But i just don't know why he built so many scouge, they just got snipped one by one. Maybe he thought the other guy was a noob and could micro against scouge I don't know i just remember been surprised when the scouge popped out and thinking what, really. That many scouge.
A few things.
1. Jaedong went 12 hatch and forced to cancel it when Zero 9 pooled. 2. Jaedong put his 2nd hatch up the ramp, and had to use I believe 5 or 6 drones to mine the gas optimally. 3. Zero put his hatch at the natural where he could mine gas with 3 drones.
Basically, Jaedong was FORCED to use more scourges because he was WAYYYYYYY behind when the air units for both popped out.
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Jaedong went 12 pool as far as I can tell, not 12 hatch. VOD is up on youtube if you feel like double checking. But otherwise I agree with what you said.
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Zeros muta micro is insane, he was microing 2 ctrl groups like nothing..I doubt jd thought he was noob thats almost silly to even suggest.
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fair enough guys. I'm learning see. Pretty new to watching starcraft as basically a sport, starcraft vods and beer awesome. So this stuff probably seems obvious to you guys but i totally don't pick up on it yet.
So basically Jaedong went for a more econ based game and got surprised by the quick pool from Zero, which meant he had to cancel his expansion as he couldn't defend it from the lings. Which then put him behind as Zero put up his expansion and couldn't afford the mutas when he needed them.
Cheers for addressing this, i genuinely didn't understand.
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Watching Lecaf get owned makes me feel all warm inside, good games.
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Nice way to end up R2. When I saw only 3 vods, I honestly thought: "poor Stars, getting owned 3-0". I coulnd't be more wrong.
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Game 1 Lomo losing the 1st tank put him in a horrid position. Losing it gave him trouble defending against the goons pressuring his building CC as well as delaying his tech such as engineering bay.
Game 2 Build order lost, not much more to say than that. However Jaedong has recovered from worse situation in the past.
Game 3 Brillant use of scouts by Young. Young did an allin build so it was basically GG if the initial attack failed. He can't make forge or expand like people are suggesting since all the resources were spent on the zealots while cutting probes. With all the overlords lost, I didn't expect Child to recover from that attack so quickly.
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