Jaedong is down 1-0 facing elimination. Normally I wouldn't be worried about JD dropping an odd ZvP game (like against Best on Demon's Forest). It was nothing more than a tough loss on a tough map with a possibility of Jaedong being distracted by recent Proleague matches against KTF. However, when he showcased an exact replica of his trouncing in the match against a mediocre protoss Sangho, I got scared. Jaedong needs to regroup, forget those two games, and concentrate on the games ahead. I hope he has been practicing his ass off in ZvP for the past few days. Free[gm] is on a roll. The guy has won 6 games in a row, won 2 ace matches for Stars giving them a decent 2-3 record, gotten within 22 points of his ELO peak, and has a high chance of becoming a starleague semifinalist for the first time in his career (neither Nada nor Frozean stand much chance against him with the way he's been playing PvT lately). A win here could be the defining moment in his career. Surely the morale boost would be insurmountable. With all that in mind Jaedong is still the favourite to win this bo3.
In an eye candy of a game Kal has taken the lead in the series. After a massive mine explosion in t the protoss mineral line took out at least 8 probes Kal was able to douse the flames of Iris' 2 fact agression displaying fantastic reaver control which devastated the scv population. Kal is definitely the stronger player however Iris is no chump and the maps are looking in his favour. I predict a close 2-1 victory for Kal.
This series itself holds no entertainment value (unless someone someone miraculously makes a successful transition into ground play), however, both of these zergs are quite entertaining to watch and could shape a good bo5 ZvP series against Jangbi. Yarnc is the better player with better mechanics and I predict either a 2-0 or a 2-1 victory for the impostor.
Bisu smashed Hwasin in game one. His play was almost flawless. In my opinion Bisu will close off the series on Medusa. There is fire in Bisu's play, he is tasting a small resurgence and is out for blood. He barely failed to advance in the OSL and that just adds fuel to the fire. Hwasin, on the other hand, has not been doing so well lately. His TvP has been on a downward spiral and it seems as though he came into the first set with a defeatist attitude knowing he could not beat Bisu. However I could be wrong and Hwasin has been practicing non-stop 24/7 the past several days fueled by raging anger with the distant sound of the scout photon blasters in his head. I sure hope so because that would make one hell of a series.
*The second map will be played only if necessary.
How To Watch
Daum Sports (Guide by GTR-2-Go is here, but you can just click the link)
Think will win:free 2-1, Iris 2-1, Yarnc 2-0, Bisu 2-0 Want to win: Jaedong, Iris, type-b, Hwasin/Bisu (really don't care)
I hope I'm wrong about Jaedong losing to free. I really hope I'm wrong. Also rooting hard for type-b - I've really enjoyed his play of late. It'd be cool if Hwasin pulled a comeback, but I don't see him growing a pair in time to beat Bisu twice in a row.
free is playing the best star of his life right now. if he takes jd straight 2-0 i think he'll have a great shot at winning the whole thing and rising to be top 10 soon. he'd feel pretty unstoppable after such a jd win.
Kal : Kal's gracious style is perfect to disrupt Iris's game. See game one.
Yarnc : Yarnc is better than ever. type-b made a really good impression against Terran, but so far everything in him has been screaming "one match up wonder".
Bisu : I like Hwasin. Really. But this guy may be the biggest jinx in Progaming history. He always seems to face the most in shape guy. He has never had a chance of elevating his game little by little in a tournament, being crushed by whoever is on steroids and playing like a monster in the first stages. Bisu is back, angry and eager to get another medal. Bye bye Hwasin. See you next time.
The matchup I am most interested in is Free vs Jaedong for sure, Jaedong is jaedong, but he does lose games. And a player on a roll, especially if it's a pretty good player like free, is a real danger.
PS: Really hope Bisu plays another S-Class PvT game, that's so great to watch. ^^
FunFact: Until now there is no PvZ played on Athena.
IriS > Kal @ Destination IriS > Kal @ Athena 2
IriS 2-1 Kal
Destination is balanced and Kal is the better player, still I think that IriS will take the game someone because he knows Athena favors him and then he will take the series!
YellOw[ArnC] > tybe-b @ Destination
YellOw[ArnC] 2-0 tybe-b
Anything can happen in ZvZ, but YellOw[ArnC] is really good and has more experience, I'm pretty sure he will take it.
Bisu > HwaSin @ Medusa
Bisu 2-0 HwaSin
Bisu is on the run right now and I'm certain he still has "it" and will take down HwaSin in a show of flawless play.
On October 23 2008 18:51 rA.Hippie wrote: I have no idea where the hell kal is getting all those units.
He had gates, if you noticed, when he got pushed off his third, he went from strictly goon production, to zealot production.. so he was still getting units, just got really restricted as he was down to 2 gas, and then at the end of the game 1 gas.
Iris made a mistake early, and let kal keep his nexus at his third.. but it didn't really matter in the end though
Kals probe did not fall asleep it was standing there and not scouting to make iris frustrated for locations and probable proxy gate build he put scv and made more marines on ramp -> brain wars there.
Iris without scan has to cancel his push due to dt! Kal now dropping dt on iris's main, but its annihiliated. Kal going wtit full force to break push. Manages to kill lots of tanks . Kal ends up winning the battle.
of the 3 middle mineral only bright green ledge bases, why the hell would iris opt to take the leftmost one as a position ? i don't see what that could give him, besides a straight push to kal's main, that wasn't gona happen. I would think, if anything, taking that topmost mineral only would help him secure 12 and 12nat, to catchup in bases once he was behind.
Iris's macro is beastly, but I wonder why he didn't use dropships to sneak a few vultures into Kal's expo (or main), instead of hitting the pylon wall again and again.
I wish I knew what was with Kal today. He was just totally off, like he was having a bad day. He really looked like he wasn't confident either. No matter the reason, we can all agree that was a really sloppy game.
of the 3 middle mineral only bright green ledge bases, why the hell would iris opt to take the leftmost one as a position ? i don't see what that could give him, besides a straight push to kal's main, that wasn't gona happen. I would think, if anything, taking that topmost mineral only would help him secure 12 and 12nat, to catchup in bases once he was behind.
Traditionally Terran always expand towards protoss, it's like an unwritten rule. This is significantly more predominant on 3 player maps as you never get cross position. Expanding towards Kal gives his base protection, puts pressure on Kal, and gives strength to his push (moar scvs!~). On top of that, expanding away gives the protoss a place to hit when you're still pushing i.e it becomes a liability rather than an advantage (at least against good players). HOWEVER... when you're so far behind and a push will likely fail it doesn't really matter where you expand, you're fucked anyway.
On October 23 2008 19:26 3nickma wrote: Btw how's the stream today? Wondering which only I'll tune into or if I'll be using YY as it has worked the "best" for me lately.
for me YY works without buffering. Zatic has annoying buffers and daum lags as usually.
also, i just thought of this talking to my grilfriend. whats to say lux isn't playing for yarnc. would there be any way for them to know ? lol, just a thought
On October 23 2008 19:35 Disarray wrote: thx plexa = )
also, i just thought of this talking to my grilfriend. whats to say lux isn't playing for yarnc. would there be any way for them to know ? lol, just a thought
I thought this too, maybe yellow was the one who got traded to ktf :S
On October 23 2008 19:35 Disarray wrote: thx plexa = )
also, i just thought of this talking to my grilfriend. whats to say lux isn't playing for yarnc. would there be any way for them to know ? lol, just a thought
lol that game almost became the worst televised game ever. if they both killed eachothers drones off, and type b's scourge killed his mutas. both players have nothing and zzzzzzzzzz
On October 23 2008 19:49 Guss wrote: anyone elses stream going to slideshow mode? Zatic Bar stream AND daum sports stream are both lagging to shit :S
Nope almost perfect here with YY and hope it stays that way for when Jaedong comes along! God how I've missed YY But forgot it didn't work in Google's Chrome lol but good it's fine in IE7. So try it as it's been really good thus far for me today.
On October 23 2008 19:49 EvoChamber wrote: sigh. that game was over the second type-b laid his 2nd hatch at his natural.
as are all ZvZ's i've ever seen. every time... EVERY SINGLE TIME i see a zerg expand in zvz that zerg loses.
you havent watched the maestro in his prime...
you are correct, but i have seen him lose in a zvz being to one to expand first. (i wanna say it was to one of the twins, some time back.)
hmm, in his prime, if my memory serves me correctly, he frequently went fast expand and won with it, one game against chojja especially comes to mind, where chojja went 9 pool and savior fast expand, he just canceled his hatch and proceeded to own chojja, thats how dominant he was ^^
On October 23 2008 19:49 EvoChamber wrote: sigh. that game was over the second type-b laid his 2nd hatch at his natural.
as are all ZvZ's i've ever seen. every time... EVERY SINGLE TIME i see a zerg expand in zvz that zerg loses.
you havent watched the maestro in his prime...
you are correct, but i have seen him lose in a zvz being to one to expand first. (i wanna say it was to one of the twins, some time back.)
hmm, in his prime, if my memory serves me correctly, he frequently went fast expand and won with it, one game against chojja especially comes to mind, where chojja went 9 pool and savior fast expand, he just canceled his hatch and proceeded to own chojja, thats how dominant he was ^^
Also Jaedong of course. I think it was his latest ZvZ where he expanded and still won.
win-win game for me, I betted on Jaedong, but I actually really want Free to win, so either way, I will atleast get something out of it^^^ If this game follows the pattern of the others, should be a 2-1 win for free, but I honestly think Jaedong will take this home.
What the fuck Jaedong, you cause your fans to have heart attacks x.x Although that still was extremely baller. I don't know if any other Zerg could go 1 hatch Lurker when down 1-0...
jaedong was a fucking beast there. he was on top of every single unit he had and used them all at like max effeciency. most players woulda let those 2 lurkers die after they killed the shit at the nat, maybe ran em in for a suicide at the main.
On October 23 2008 20:21 Shikyo wrote: What the fuck Jaedong, you cause your fans to have heart attacks x.x Although that still was extremely baller. I don't know if any other Zerg could go 1 hatch Lurker when down 1-0...
Free has a huge army and 4 basese so he's not behind. Drop incoming! Corsair going to atack overlords almost all overlords are sniped. He just drops a few zerglings which dont do any damage. Free tanking his 5th bae! Free can take this guys!
I think Jaedong is playing a game like "Ok I'll let you have expansions so I can win and people can say nothing about it cuz it was a macro war and I beat you."
Reaver on nat does some damage! Jaedong swarming Frees expansion free goes to the rescue. Anotehr reaver out! Free saves his expansion! Free even storms and kills a lone delifier!
Tosn of archons zealots and 2 reavers! Now it is jd turns to survive. Wait drop incoming for Jeadong. OBs sees with ovi and jaedong heads back. Jaedong defending his base and at same time atacking a free's expansion. Swarming it, two reavers out doing some damage. Nexus died but free clears all out! Wow this game is mad!
Basically what happened was Jaedong took a strong economic advantage early on and then fell into the typical ZvP trap of becoming complacent. He turtled up and lost a lot of the drones he had macrod up. Free on the other hand easily equalized base count when he took 3 (two expos in one) and thus Jaedong was put into a really bad place. He stopped expanding and eventually his economy failed him.
the games was extremely tense but I think pretty onesided, JD gayed around for soo long refusing to engage the toss ball, finally he was got out of position in his attempt to shut down free's expo in the center of the map, he lost his main cow force there and it was all over.
On October 23 2008 21:03 Plexa wrote: Basically what happened was Jaedong took a strong economic advantage early on and then fell into the typical ZvP trap of becoming complacent. He turtled up and lost a lot of the drones he had macrod up. Free on the other hand easily equalized base count when he took 3 (two expos in one) and thus Jaedong was put into a really bad place. He stopped expanding and eventually his economy failed him.
I am so disappointed JD lost. But honestly Free played just superb. Props to him and good luck for the Ro 8 and what's next. Now Jaedong has to win GSI.
On October 23 2008 21:04 disciple wrote: the games was extremely tense but I think pretty onesided, JD gayed around for soo long refusing to engage the toss ball, finally he was got out of position in his attempt to shut down free's expo in the center of the map, he lost his main cow force there and it was all over.
I completely disagree... Once Free equalized base count his advantage just kept growing - true - but before that it was Jaedongs game
On October 23 2008 21:03 Plexa wrote: Basically what happened was Jaedong took a strong economic advantage early on and then fell into the typical ZvP trap of becoming complacent. He turtled up and lost a lot of the drones he had macrod up. Free on the other hand easily equalized base count when he took 3 (two expos in one) and thus Jaedong was put into a really bad place. He stopped expanding and eventually his economy failed him.
Great fucking game.
And add up that there was only gas expansions so archon/reaver was so easy to obtain if you got 5-6 gas. Too much gas for zerg to handle.
On October 23 2008 21:03 Plexa wrote: Basically what happened was Jaedong took a strong economic advantage early on and then fell into the typical ZvP trap of becoming complacent. He turtled up and lost a lot of the drones he had macrod up. Free on the other hand easily equalized base count when he took 3 (two expos in one) and thus Jaedong was put into a really bad place. He stopped expanding and eventually his economy failed him.
Great fucking game.
meeehhh i like 30% agree
maybe i'll have to write another article
Well obviously its a gross oversimplification but i think that was a fundamental aspect of him losing his advantage, and later the game.
On October 23 2008 16:45 TheTyranid wrote: (neither Nada nor Frozean stand much chance against him with the way he's been playing PvT lately)
In my opinion this is a ridiculous statement. Both NaDa and Frozean can beat Free. Every freaking progamer can beat another one. We saw so many upsets. Its okay to say that its unlikely for someone to win, but not standing a chance is just too much. We saw NaDa beat JangBi at Blizzcon who is easily as good as free in PvT, EASILY.
Yes I'm biased towards Terran and NaDa, but I also like free, but I fear Tornado Terran will still prevail.
On October 23 2008 16:45 TheTyranid wrote: (neither Nada nor Frozean stand much chance against him with the way he's been playing PvT lately)
In my opinion this is a ridiculous statement. Both NaDa and Frozean can beat Free. Every freaking progamer can beat another one. We saw so many upsets. Its okay to say that its unlikely for someone to win, but not standing a chance is just too much. We saw NaDa beat JangBi at Blizzcon who is easily as good as free in PvT, EASILY.
Yes I'm biased towards Terran and NaDa, but I also like free, but I fear Tornado Terran will still prevail.
Learn to read you terran fanboy . I said "much" chance, not "no" chance.
On October 23 2008 21:08 Kyuki wrote: JD made the decision to make hydra snipers to late.. I was just waiting for it, and when he did it was too late.
Anyways, it was a great game, which I think slipped out of JDs hands because he simply played too safe.
But seriously, how can you kill 20 Archons and 8 reavers? :s
you can't, if the protoss doesnt fuck up
i really hate that. it seems to be the only matchup (besides mass carriers in PvT on certian maps.... and even thats been proven wrong) where one side actually has a chance to build an invincible army
On October 23 2008 21:03 Plexa wrote: Basically what happened was Jaedong took a strong economic advantage early on and then fell into the typical ZvP trap of becoming complacent. He turtled up and lost a lot of the drones he had macrod up. Free on the other hand easily equalized base count when he took 3 (two expos in one) and thus Jaedong was put into a really bad place. He stopped expanding and eventually his economy failed him.
Great fucking game.
meeehhh i like 30% agree
maybe i'll have to write another article
only maybe...????
Anyways, on a side note. Amazing game. Really amazing. It had me on the edge of my seat.
On October 23 2008 16:45 TheTyranid wrote: (neither Nada nor Frozean stand much chance against him with the way he's been playing PvT lately)
In my opinion this is a ridiculous statement. Both NaDa and Frozean can beat Free. Every freaking progamer can beat another one. We saw so many upsets. Its okay to say that its unlikely for someone to win, but not standing a chance is just too much. We saw NaDa beat JangBi at Blizzcon who is easily as good as free in PvT, EASILY.
Yes I'm biased towards Terran and NaDa, but I also like free, but I fear Tornado Terran will still prevail.
Learn to read you terran fanboy . I said "much" chance, not "no" chance.
;PP Not much is nearly as bad as no chance ;P but nice write up!
On October 23 2008 21:08 Kyuki wrote: JD made the decision to make hydra snipers to late.. I was just waiting for it, and when he did it was too late.
Anyways, it was a great game, which I think slipped out of JDs hands because he simply played too safe.
But seriously, how can you kill 20 Archons and 8 reavers? :s
you can't, if the protoss doesnt fuck up
i really hate that. it seems to be the only matchup (besides mass carriers in PvT on certian maps.... and even thats been proven wrong) where one side actually has a chance to build an invincible army
To be fair, its really hard to actually build an army like that thus if you sit there and let them build such an army its your own fault..
seriously if anyone thinks that wasn't a spectacular game by free, you need to realize that his defense that game was something no other protoss could have done at this moment
On October 23 2008 16:45 TheTyranid wrote: (neither Nada nor Frozean stand much chance against him with the way he's been playing PvT lately)
In my opinion this is a ridiculous statement. Both NaDa and Frozean can beat Free. Every freaking progamer can beat another one. We saw so many upsets. Its okay to say that its unlikely for someone to win, but not standing a chance is just too much. We saw NaDa beat JangBi at Blizzcon who is easily as good as free in PvT, EASILY.
Yes I'm biased towards Terran and NaDa, but I also like free, but I fear Tornado Terran will still prevail.
Learn to read you terran fanboy . I said "much" chance, not "no" chance.
;PP Not much is nearly as bad as no chance ;P but nice write up!
Thank you. I meant to say he was a big favourite. My wording was off then.
On October 23 2008 21:14 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: seriously if anyone thinks that wasn't a spectacular game by free, you need to realize that his defense that game was something no other protoss could have done at this moment
On October 23 2008 21:01 Carnac wrote: no one who hides behind this many sunks and lurkers during midgame should be allowed to win
justice has been served
Savior[gm]
And what are you supposed to do when toss gets an army advantage and map control ? You take as many bases as possible and secure them .So what that a zerg turteled behind sunks and lurks .When toss gets a base it gets cannoned whored like there is no tommorow with templars as well . So i don't see what the problem is in investing in static defence if you can use the resourses and win obviously Jaedong didn't , but it still a viable strategy to turtle as zerg not only with toss and terran .... If you use your shit cost effectively you can still win even if the toss has a strong army and map control .
You just have to know that reavers >sunkens and swarm>cannons
(Look at Dinot vs Rondo in the TSL game 3 for example ...)
On the game i think if Jaedong had updates for hidras , he could have switched more early to mass hidra /lurkers + mutas and dont stay with mele units just pick random archons and reavers with hidras until you can mole down a bit buy bit but it is insanly hard to pull of .
On October 23 2008 21:08 Kyuki wrote: JD made the decision to make hydra snipers to late.. I was just waiting for it, and when he did it was too late.
Anyways, it was a great game, which I think slipped out of JDs hands because he simply played too safe.
But seriously, how can you kill 20 Archons and 8 reavers? :s
you can't, if the protoss doesnt fuck up
i really hate that. it seems to be the only matchup (besides mass carriers in PvT on certian maps.... and even thats been proven wrong) where one side actually has a chance to build an invincible army
To be fair, its really hard to actually build an army like that thus if you sit there and let them build such an army its your own fault..
i would never argue that, but that counter (stop them from getting it in the first place) can be used against almost any strategy, and is still a weak argument for one side having that sort of army. altho im not sure what hey could do to fix it, besides maybe making archons not plague-immune, or mayking some zerg unit similarly splash or storm immune.
On October 23 2008 21:14 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: seriously if anyone thinks that wasn't a spectacular game by free, you need to realize that his defense that game was something no other protoss could have done at this moment
It was a spectacular game, but his defense wasn't the best (still good though). His gameplan and strategy and how he kept his cool under pressure was beyond phenomenal imo
On October 23 2008 21:14 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: seriously if anyone thinks that wasn't a spectacular game by free, you need to realize that his defense that game was something no other protoss could have done at this moment
free was incredible but he was put in a position where jaedong should have been able to beat perfect play.
I think Jaedong had that game won. Then he got overconfident and started fucking around with guardians and what not. Really crappy midgame by him, letting Free gain such a huge advantage.
On October 23 2008 21:08 Kyuki wrote: JD made the decision to make hydra snipers to late.. I was just waiting for it, and when he did it was too late.
Anyways, it was a great game, which I think slipped out of JDs hands because he simply played too safe.
But seriously, how can you kill 20 Archons and 8 reavers? :s
you can't, if the protoss doesnt fuck up
i really hate that. it seems to be the only matchup (besides mass carriers in PvT on certian maps.... and even thats been proven wrong) where one side actually has a chance to build an invincible army
To be fair, its really hard to actually build an army like that thus if you sit there and let them build such an army its your own fault..
i would never argue that, but that counter (stop them from getting it in the first place) can be used against almost any strategy, and is still a weak argument for one side having that sort of army. altho im not sure what hey could do to fix it, besides maybe making archons not plague-immune, or mayking some zerg unit similarly splash or storm immune.
Well the trick is to abuse mobility and cut the mienral supply so you can wear the army down with waves. Couple that with good swarm and good unit positioning and you've got a decent shot at taking it down (or atleast putting a huge dent in it).
After the thirty minute mark, it was kind of reminiscent of Best/Luxury on Hwarangdo. Huge unchallengeable toss army roaming back and forth versus slowly starving zerg army with less and less openings to attack.
On October 23 2008 21:08 Kyuki wrote: JD made the decision to make hydra snipers to late.. I was just waiting for it, and when he did it was too late.
Anyways, it was a great game, which I think slipped out of JDs hands because he simply played too safe.
But seriously, how can you kill 20 Archons and 8 reavers? :s
you can't, if the protoss doesnt fuck up
i really hate that. it seems to be the only matchup (besides mass carriers in PvT on certian maps.... and even thats been proven wrong) where one side actually has a chance to build an invincible army
To be fair, its really hard to actually build an army like that thus if you sit there and let them build such an army its your own fault..
i would never argue that, but that counter (stop them from getting it in the first place) can be used against almost any strategy, and is still a weak argument for one side having that sort of army. altho im not sure what hey could do to fix it, besides maybe making archons not plague-immune, or mayking some zerg unit similarly splash or storm immune.
Well the trick is to abuse mobility and cut the mienral supply so you can wear the army down with waves. Couple that with good swarm and good unit positioning and you've got a decent shot at taking it down (or atleast putting a huge dent in it).
yeah, but you still get my ponit. its still pretty lame.
(plus when the protoss is doing that exact same thing to the zerg, but replace swarm wtih storm, and its still just as dumb. but i'd rather have this hyper-meta-theory argument elsewhere. let the insurance/sars game commence!)
On October 23 2008 21:17 Shikyo wrote: I think Jaedong had that game won. Then he got overconfident and started fucking around with guardians and what not. Really crappy midgame by him, letting Free gain such a huge advantage.
Yeah wtf was the idea with that "sneak" attack!? And retreating them into certain death instead of just letting them attack while they died would've been at least somewhat better. But still didn't like that decision either.
On October 23 2008 21:14 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: seriously if anyone thinks that wasn't a spectacular game by free, you need to realize that his defense that game was something no other protoss could have done at this moment
It was indeed fucking awesome play by Free. Somehow I need to eat my sock too..
What impressed me the most is how he actually managed to put JD out of balance - which is something you probably have to do in order to beat him lategame, and it clearly showed in JDs play. It wasnt very JDish, you know - Tyranistic!
I'm very sad to see JD out though, he always managed to make spectacular games, and I'm always amazed by his mechanics and game sense. He really squeeze every little thing out of the Zerg.
you know what was a very small thing but pretty key in lotsa ways in that game. the obs just on the southern edge of jd's base for like half the game. so key. in knowing the greater spire was going up, knowing the drop was coming. multiple times. free's overall play and everything was phenomonal of course and he couldnt have won without everything coming together but i think that lil obs is one important thing that alotta ppl can miss.
On October 23 2008 21:14 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: seriously if anyone thinks that wasn't a spectacular game by free, you need to realize that his defense that game was something no other protoss could have done at this moment
free was incredible but he was put in a position where jaedong should have been able to beat perfect play.
Well Jaedong prepared a diffrent strategy that involved other methods and not just overruning free if he is at an eco disadvantage .
I mean, I'm quite happy for Free, because I think he deserves some success with his recent play and history, but it's just like, Zergs cannot compete anymore : (
Ahh where are the mutas that can pick 2 - 3 or more reavers which is easy with his control .... Where are the hidra flanks and lurkers to mole down the archon balls .Jaedong still needs to be more flexible when you have resources you can always switch around the tech tree and counter the counter .I think only July uses his units with the most efficiency . JD still needs to learn more .
Edit : this is why you need to be more flexible with zerg and don't stick with only mele units even if you have minerals to support ultras .....
hopefully the JD fanbois will give it a rest till the next MSL
There is always Gom man and it is Kespa sectioned .
god I hate your souls
lol, I`m actually happy for free, he`s in the Ro8 now and he has a chance at this MSL. And I hope he actually wins, or I`ll be very sad... Anyway, zergs are nowhere to be seen in these starleagues first time they didn`t win at least one of them
Ahh where are the mutas that can pick 2 - 3 or more reavers which is easy with his control .... Where are the hidra flanks and lurkers to mole down the archon balls .Jaedong still needs to be more flexible when you have resources you can always switch around the tech tree and counter the counter .I think only July uses his units with the most efficiency . JD still needs to learn more .
Edit : this is why you need to be more flexible with zerg and don't stick with only mele units even if you have minerals to support ultras .....
Ahh where are the mutas that can pick 2 - 3 or more reavers which is easy with his control .... Where are the hidra flanks and lurkers to mole down the archon balls .Jaedong still needs to be more flexible when you have resources you can always switch around the tech tree and counter the counter .I think only July uses his units with the most efficiency . JD still needs to learn more .
Edit : this is why you need to be more flexible with zerg and don't stick with only mele units even if you have minerals to support ultras .....
LOLOLOL god damnit i voted for jd and only free wins, wtf. free > bisu in terms of pvz?! haha. man, im really happy for free bc hes the only person in his clan decent enough to wtfpwn people. he ACE'd sea in pl now he beats jd. quite impressive. i havent seen the game(s) yet so i will get to those ASAP.
These games sound intense, looking forward to seeing them. It's likely to see another battle of Bisu and Stork! D: Will it turn out like Incruit or GOMTV2, hopefully Best'll humiliate Stork enough that he'll not stand a chance at winning MSL
On August 13 2008 09:28 Guybrush wrote: Bisu is still the best Protoss, because hes so far ahead of the others PvZ. Kal, and free are capable to compete with him in that MU at times, but they both lack the mental strength Bisu has.
BeSt is just awful PvZ, and is not going to win anything unless he pulls off a Casy not facing any competent players in his worst MU. I also believe he lacks the mental strength.
I believe YJ has the potential, but he's still an unpolished diamond who needs more important matches under his belt.
But when it all comes down to it I cant see any immediate Bonjwas in the near future for any of the races.
kal is better at pvz than bisu, free is ass fucking terrible
On October 24 2008 01:19 jhNz wrote: hwasin seems to be in really bad shape at the moment... losing to bisu is no shame, but overall he's not on top of his game right now.
Yeah, you're right. He looked to be in pretty good form just a few weeks ago in the Ro32 though, when he took on Ruby and Fantasy... =/
the second game, omg i just saw it now. frigging bisu just slaughtered the guy. haha. he did a dual gate right right? then went reaver goons and yeah he dropped the army one by one.
On October 23 2008 20:59 3nickma wrote: PLAGUE! USE FUCKING PLAGUE!
vs 20 archons? yeah that'll do good.
Sorry, just tuned in late on this one. Had schoolwork all day. Just wanted to peak into this thread to say game 3 between Jeadong and Free was absolutely breathtaking. What a game! The way Free kept his army from slipping was art. That is soooo hard there not to lose sight of the reavers, the shuttles, your positioning. And the way he trapped the ultra force repeatedly at chokepoints with reavers. Jaedong played a phenomenal macro game and had such an edge early on. But, man oh man, Free has got some seeeeriously wicked PvZ! That was freaking amazing.
People can whine all they want about Archon/Reaver, but getting to that point, assembling that army and securing those bases the way he did with the multitasking JD put on. That requires just about the same amount of multitasking just there. Free has been on fire lately, carrying Stars in PL and now this. Can't wait to see where he lands on the next PR.
The last game of the day made me chuckle a lot. Bisu is a force to be reckoned with going into next round.
damn archon/reaver is pretty much a moving wall lol no amount of plague / ultraling can stop it jaedong gave free way too much time to get an army that monstrous
Jaedong got too cocky and let Free pull some Stork Andromeda play on him. The lackadaisical Muta harass followed by the trivial Spire tech to Guardians had me scratching my head and wondering why Jaedong was squandering his lead. The failed doom drop was unavoidable, but him sitting in his base waiting for Ultralisks and Defiler while Free massed Archons and Reavers was clueless, and had me wondering WTF was going on with Jaedong. Jaedong seriously dropped the ball and deserved to lose that one.
Things are falling into place for FBH taking this with Jaedong out of it.
What's the hell is up with Bisu and the mask? Does he have chicken pox?
How many more years will it take toss players to start walling off their cannons /w gateways when facing ultra/ling/swarm? I seriously don't see why they don't do it t.t!!
EDIT: I guess he did wall it off slightly in the end..
On October 24 2008 04:36 moebius_string wrote: Jaedong got too cocky and let Free pull some Stork Andromeda play on him. The lackadaisical Muta harass followed by the trivial Spire tech to Guardians had me scratching my head and wondering why Jaedong was squandering his lead. The failed doom drop was unavoidable, but him sitting in his base waiting for Ultralisks and Defiler while Free massed Archons and Reavers was clueless, and had me wondering WTF was going on with Jaedong. Jaedong seriously dropped the ball and deserved to lose that one.
Things are falling into place for FBH taking this with Jaedong out of it.
What's the hell is up with Bisu and the mask? Does he have chicken pox?
Lol what do you think he should have done after the guardians AND the drop failed? Tried to fight free with ling only? That would be an absolute disaster.
On August 13 2008 09:28 Guybrush wrote: Bisu is still the best Protoss, because hes so far ahead of the others PvZ. Kal, and free are capable to compete with him in that MU at times, but they both lack the mental strength Bisu has.
BeSt is just awful PvZ, and is not going to win anything unless he pulls off a Casy not facing any competent players in his worst MU. I also believe he lacks the mental strength.
I believe YJ has the potential, but he's still an unpolished diamond who needs more important matches under his belt.
But when it all comes down to it I cant see any immediate Bonjwas in the near future for any of the races.
kal is better at pvz than bisu, free is ass fucking terrible
On August 13 2008 09:28 Guybrush wrote: Bisu is still the best Protoss, because hes so far ahead of the others PvZ. Kal, and free are capable to compete with him in that MU at times, but they both lack the mental strength Bisu has.
BeSt is just awful PvZ, and is not going to win anything unless he pulls off a Casy not facing any competent players in his worst MU. I also believe he lacks the mental strength.
I believe YJ has the potential, but he's still an unpolished diamond who needs more important matches under his belt.
But when it all comes down to it I cant see any immediate Bonjwas in the near future for any of the races.
kal is better at pvz than bisu, free is ass fucking terrible
best is by far the strongest protoss right now
You're still wrong about BeSt.
yeah i disagree with free being terrible, he faced savior when savior at his prime and those games were alright but free stepped up a notch in this one. hes better at pvz than kal.
On August 13 2008 09:28 Guybrush wrote: Bisu is still the best Protoss, because hes so far ahead of the others PvZ. Kal, and free are capable to compete with him in that MU at times, but they both lack the mental strength Bisu has.
BeSt is just awful PvZ, and is not going to win anything unless he pulls off a Casy not facing any competent players in his worst MU. I also believe he lacks the mental strength.
I believe YJ has the potential, but he's still an unpolished diamond who needs more important matches under his belt.
But when it all comes down to it I cant see any immediate Bonjwas in the near future for any of the races.
kal is better at pvz than bisu, free is ass fucking terrible
best is by far the strongest protoss right now
You're still wrong about BeSt.
yeah i disagree with free being terrible, he faced savior when savior at his prime and those games were alright but free stepped up a notch in this one. hes better at pvz than kal.
Bisu winning and still staying relatively under the radar is a good thing. He is definitly playing good enough to win the whole thing though.
And I pretty much knew Free would win the thing when FakeSteve and co. were talking about how Jaedong still had the series easy. Definitly a gg though.
Went back and watched Free vs Ruby and Sea, and I have to say that Free is a force to be reckoned with. That boy is hungry, and may be our only hope to take down Firebathero. Go Free!
Does the Korean scene purposely use maps like Byzantium because the biggest fanbase is teenage girls and teenage girls like shiny objects ie protoss units?
On October 24 2008 08:40 ahole-surprise wrote: Does the Korean scene purposely use maps like Byzantium because the biggest fanbase is teenage girls and teenage girls like shiny objects ie protoss units?
I'm happy for Free. Although I wanted JD to win, Free deserved the win. Besides, hopefully this will have an energizing effect on WStars, and this will motivate his teammates to train a lot harder.
On October 24 2008 08:36 moebius_string wrote: Went back and watched Free vs Ruby and Sea, and I have to say that Free is a force to be reckoned with. That boy is hungry, and may be our only hope to take down Firebathero. Go Free!
We need hope to take down FBH? Tempest or Bisu will embarrass him, guaranteed.
Ahh where are the mutas that can pick 2 - 3 or more reavers which is easy with his control .... Where are the hidra flanks and lurkers to mole down the archon balls .Jaedong still needs to be more flexible when you have resources you can always switch around the tech tree and counter the counter .I think only July uses his units with the most efficiency . JD still needs to learn more .
Edit : this is why you need to be more flexible with zerg and don't stick with only mele units even if you have minerals to support ultras .....
Uh... Jd's muta control might be the best, but he can't just pick off reavers when they're being escorted by the million archon march. Same goes for hydras vs the reavers.
The biggest mistake was with the mutas/guardians, but man both players were just superb.
- Athena 2 is a map that I practiced a lot last season, so I was comfortable with my macro game. As the game progresses it gets better for Protoss. Zerg must end it before it gets too far into the game, and just destroying the expansions isn’t going to cut it.
On August 13 2008 09:28 Guybrush wrote: Bisu is still the best Protoss, because hes so far ahead of the others PvZ. Kal, and free are capable to compete with him in that MU at times, but they both lack the mental strength Bisu has.
BeSt is just awful PvZ, and is not going to win anything unless he pulls off a Casy not facing any competent players in his worst MU. I also believe he lacks the mental strength.
I believe YJ has the potential, but he's still an unpolished diamond who needs more important matches under his belt.
But when it all comes down to it I cant see any immediate Bonjwas in the near future for any of the races.
kal is better at pvz than bisu, free is ass fucking terrible
No. He had his chance now with no Zergs in his way, but still he choked in his best matchup. Neo-PuSan is now going to slump, but whether that slump will be as big as the original PuSans slump, and he'll disappear from the individual leagues remains to be seen.
If Stork somehow beats his curse and wins the OSL and Bisu doesnt win the MSL Im wrong about Bisu being the best protoss, because then Stork will be despite being worse than Bisu PvZ.
Storks chances in MSL are pretty good too due to the remaining Zergs being terrible ZvPers
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/3MSL/MSL_080914_1.png)
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Jaedong < Medusa , * Athena 2 > 
free[gm]![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/liquibet/players/Kal.jpg)
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___VS___![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/125.jpg)
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