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On September 12 2008 02:15 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
I think if you hold a tourney where you invite someone to a different country it isn't the winners job to be a certain kind of person in order to do well. It is the job of the established, comfortable and domestic company to make it a welcoming experience for the person that is in a foreign country playing against superior players... so yeah, it was eSTRO's fault. Not greg's for being the person that he is.
Yeah, if everything you guys say is true, I completely agree. They hosted a tournament (albeit at the request of the company that owns them, I think) to bring the winner in. The responsibility to make that winner feel welcome and wanted was on eSTRO.
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Most of the koreans in high skilled teams on west are racist so this does not surprise me. It is sad that this carries into pro teams as well but it doese not shock me one bit. It's a shame Idra is somewhat a walkover it seems and never stood up for himself at all. I think he should adress this in the video because eSTRO seems to of benefited from him being there and they deserve some SERIOUS bad publicity for this and I really hope he adresses this racisim because I believe its one reason why foriegners have trouble reaching high levels like the koreans
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Calgary26004 Posts
Sea and Savior were super friendly. Maybe Stork and Kal were racists. At least that's how I'm going to tell the story!
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How is the next foreigner that goes to eStro going to deal with this? I mean, does someone like Nony or Cloud even want to go to a team like this and be ignored and forced to play on iccup instead?
I mean, are they really welcome or not? How can they invite a foreigner and then not allow them to play?
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so you need to be a really charming person to be succesfull foreigner in Korea... a really common trait among computer nerds 
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On September 12 2008 02:59 BlackStar wrote:
How is the next foreigner that goes to eStro going to deal with this? I mean, does someone like Nony or Cloud even want to go to a team like this and be ignored and forced to play on iccup instead?
I mean, are they really welcome or not? How can they invite a foreigner and then not allow them to play?
If by any chance I get picked I don't mind whoever I play as long as I have the chance to participate in Courage, get a pro license and get into any serious korean tournament. I also wouldn't mind being ignored at first. You can just become much better playing other pros on iccup until they beg you to play them. And btw I seriously doubt their actitude towards Idra wasn't also due to the fact that guy might have some serious problems in social relations irl.
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On September 12 2008 03:06 iG.ClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2008 02:59 BlackStar wrote:
How is the next foreigner that goes to eStro going to deal with this? I mean, does someone like Nony or Cloud even want to go to a team like this and be ignored and forced to play on iccup instead?
I mean, are they really welcome or not? How can they invite a foreigner and then not allow them to play? If by any chance I get picked I don't mind whoever I play as long as I have the chance to participate in Courage, get a pro license and get into any serious korean tournament. I also wouldn't mind being ignored at first. You can just become much better playing other pros on iccup until they beg you to play them. And btw I seriously doubt their actitude towards Idra wasn't also due to the fact that guy might have some serious problems in social relations irl.
If you play better opponents you improve faster. You suggest that idra should have just played iccup and improved slowly instead of complaining and getting to play with better players?
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Improving in bw doesn't necessary mean playing exceptional opponents all day. You can also improve by thinking, having a rest, being more confident by the time goes and playing even people worse than you. This is called talent and it also goes along your relationals skills since you won't get anywhere if you suck at being nice with people, adapting at what they like, making they accept you and getting games. You can find an amazingly good amount of progamers on iCCup and at the highest level it's probably a much better training than the one given at most of the b teams houses.
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If I was Idra I would make up a ton of usernames on the UDP connection and just confuse the other koreans and then get games that way.
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That's true but if you play better people you're definitely going to get more out of it regardless of talent. Idra was not just a regular player who joined the team. He can open up more relations for korea and he won a tournament before going there, he deserves special treatment and CJ is giving it by trying to get him to improve ASAP.
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On September 12 2008 03:06 iG.ClouD wrote:
And btw I seriously doubt their actitude towards Idra wasn't also due to the fact that guy might have some serious problems in social relations irl. As much as I wanted to optimistically believe in Incontrol. Unfortunally I think most people here will agree that ClouD is probably correct >< Just hope that the people they choose from spirit are a little nicer.
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On September 12 2008 03:55 VIB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2008 03:06 iG.ClouD wrote:
And btw I seriously doubt their actitude towards Idra wasn't also due to the fact that guy might have some serious problems in social relations irl. As much as I wanted to optimistically believe in Incontrol. Unfortunally I think most people here will agree that ClouD is probably correct >< Just hope that the people they choose from spirit are a little nicer. Even if this was true it still doesn't take away from the fact that he doesn't speak their language which makes it a little hard to talk to them.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On September 11 2008 23:39 Elsi wrote:wrong flags for castro and fenix and handy lol  peruvian not bolivian!
This stems from the TSLD listing castro as bolivian... I tried to fix that mistake and accidentally changed all of the peruvian flags to bolivian.
If someone with the power to change castro's country reads this post, please fix the mistake.
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...I just watched the Cloud vs Deska games.. Why is Deska in this? He didn't execute a decent build order in either game. Hell he should have just 4 pooled both games, atleast he could have had a chance of competing if Cloud scouted him last.. >.<;
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On September 12 2008 02:15 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
I think if you hold a tourney where you invite someone to a different country it isn't the winners job to be a certain kind of person in order to do well. It is the job of the established, comfortable and domestic company to make it a welcoming experience for the person that is in a foreign country playing against superior players... so yeah, it was eSTRO's fault. Not greg's for being the person that he is.
I totally agree here. I'm just now getting to reading this thread, I had no idea this was going on. But I guess all of it follows up to TT1's post on gosugamers. He discussing how shady the koreans have always been to the foreigners and why are they changing their minds now? It goes into much more detail, but this shows it right here.
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8751 Posts
They say the prize is "become a progamer" and I guess that is what ClouD described: go to Korea, be given most of your day to practice, and participate in Courage. I 100% believe that I, and other foreigners, could pass Courage by only playing on iCCup. But I really doubt that we'd only be playing on iCCup. And winning Courage isn't the only opportunity -- doing well in inner-team competitions and making contacts are also good ways to forge a path. It's a great opportunity and I would definitely go.
But I have to say that if I were any worse at BW, I'd definitely be nervous about going. The Spirit Tournament is just a stepping stone and participants need to be ready for the next step. Winning Spirit isn't "making it" as a progamer. That's why we always have to wait a good 6 months every time a foreigner goes to Korea in order to see if they're going to make it to the next step. I'll make it! Pick me! 
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How often do you integrate foreign students at your school etc into your activities? Being in Idra's position is lonely as hell. Once the novelty fades I would probably just want to go home and be with my friends instead of people who don't speak my language and can't be bothered to constantly put in the effort required to keep me involved in things.
Add on top of that Idra isn't exactly a social butterfly from the interviews we've seen. Even his roommates at college who were interviewed about him leaving knew absolutely nothing about him, and these people spoke his language.
I can understand if he was some star player being brought in that can do something for the team, but that's not the reality. He has to work hard just to become competitive with the team, and he's not going to lead Estro on all-kills. The entire concept of bringing foreigners to korea to play is a huge gimmick in itself, and it probably grows old for both parties before long.
Even the outside interest and buzz can't really be there because Idra is so detached from absolutely everything. In every interview you have to coax words out of him, how is he supposed to gain fans?
It's like all the anime obsessed people who think they will move to Japan and their white skin will be such a novelty that the Japanese won't be able to get enough of them and they'll somehow gain acceptance in a completely foreign environment when they couldn't do it on their home soil?
Calling an entire team racists when the social integration falls short by both parties is extremely ignorant. I don't think there's really blame to be put on anyone, it's just a really awkward situation.
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i pick fenix over you soo sorry nony 
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Plz Spirit Tournament, pick:
1º Nony
2º Jian Carlo
3º Cloud
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no your so wrong juanpe, this is the order of the top 3 and bottom 3
1.) DeSka
2.) Machine
3.) G5
14.) CaStrO
15.) ClouD
16.) NoNy
(on backwards day)
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EPT
