EPT
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 4
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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HOLYBATS
Turkey791 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7578 Posts
While I do consider Flash to be the greatest of all-time, by a margin, I do not personally know that he is for sure the best Terran player right now, this event has me doubting him, for the first time in a long time. Snow has been amazing forever and is capable of beating nearly every terran player in a match. I feel like tonight we find out which Flash we are getting in this ASL, are we getting the Magnus Carlsen of Craft or are we getting a strong player past his prime. For comparison Snow imo has been near his all-time prime for a while. What an exciting match. I really wish the maps this season didn't feel so advantageous for terran but after what Soma did on the last years maps, I guess the anti-Soma balancing has had the desired effect? If Flash wins, the Finals could be Soma vs Flash which would really push craft forward strategically. If Snow wins he has a chance at a zerg redemption arc against the best zerg of RN, Soma. Watching JD vs Light last night, I wondered in g1 "Could Flash today do this?" I am truly excited for either of these players to reach the next level. Hope PvT gets some movement in the meta as well. I imagine that Flash has exact timestamps for when reavers can appear burned into his eyelids and will have some methodically thought out contingencies. Hoping both players get to show their best craft possible. | ||
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caelym
United States6429 Posts
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Vasoline73
United States8067 Posts
Maybe 3-1. No 3rd World... GG EDIT: WILL* roll Snow 3-0... looking forward to waking up tomorrow and watching it  | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia479 Posts
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a-game
Canada5214 Posts
Obi Snow you're my only hope 🙏 Snow fighting!~~~ | ||
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bayagster
Philippines57 Posts
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felleN
Australia95 Posts
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SCRVN
227 Posts
On May 05 2026 15:45 Rainalcar wrote: If flash wins, it will be 3 seeded terran next season. Time to bring back Third World. He will not play in the next season because this is "the last ASL of him". So, we have a wild-card like many years ago, we usually do wild-card for losers from Quarterfinals. HERO, tulbo, JD, and SnOw will compete for a seed that FlaSh left. That was the way Sharp who got in seed group before. | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia973 Posts
And historically, that makes me worried. He's usually on fire in one matchup in offline, not both, and it doesn't switch quickly. The recent bo13 vs Light also doesn't help increase confidence. And, of course, it is Flash, who'll prepare stuff, to the point of blind counters if necessary...and it's terran maps... I'll prefer to have low expectations and have the chance of being pleasantly surprised by the series. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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SCRVN
227 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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a-game
Canada5214 Posts
On May 05 2026 18:23 SCRVN wrote: I don't think Match Point and Jane Doe are Terran maps. Snow chose them, but statistically they're neutral. Flash chose maps 2 & 4 which are statistically heavily terran favoured. So overall the series maps lean terran | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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SCRVN
227 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2750 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
On May 05 2026 19:08 prosatan wrote: what the hell is going on with the commentator on the left ? he looks dark / grey / brown..... Wasnt this caster fighting Cancer no long ? | ||
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
On May 05 2026 19:18 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Wasnt this caster fighting Cancer no long ? sorry to hear this.. | ||
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SCRVN
227 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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SCRVN
227 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
On May 05 2026 19:27 gravity wrote: Flash has had a lot of tanks all game Well not anymore | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22435 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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razorsuKe
Canada2039 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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bayagster
Philippines57 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22435 Posts
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kAra
Germany1433 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
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Kaal
Djibouti2570 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
GG snow 1-0 | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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HOLYBATS
Turkey791 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1265 Posts
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SCRVN
227 Posts
- Build Barrack outside - No defend dts - Timing push | ||
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a-game
Canada5214 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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Rainalcar
Croatia479 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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Soulforged
Latvia973 Posts
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True_Spike
Poland3433 Posts
On May 05 2026 19:33 Peeano wrote: After that first failed attack by Snow, Flash should have built a wraith or 2 and timing attacked with that or just not fear Snow mid game as much and take a 3rd and do some vultures drops into a 180-200 push. I think the fact that Snow lost 3 goons almost for free and got his shuttle / reaver hurt is exactly what made Flash push as hard as he did and reinforced the original plan. Snow already had his 3rd established by that point, turtling would be a bad choice imo. | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia479 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
On May 05 2026 19:35 True_Spike wrote: I think the fact that Snow lost 3 goons almost for free and got his shuttle / reaver hurt is exactly what made Flash push as hard as he did and reinforced the original plan. Snow already had his 3rd established by that point, turtling would be a bad choice imo. Well he did botch his gol control a bit not sniping that red shuttle, but couldn't tell if that was because of lack of vision or lack of gol range. I just think Flash shouldn't fear Snow mid game, Flash has been pushing reaver Protoss in similar manner lately (but those guys don't have the goon control Snow does.(Bisu for example)) | ||
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SCRVN
227 Posts
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Sirris17
22 Posts
On May 05 2026 19:37 Rainalcar wrote: What was the point of that hidden probe? To check the exact timing of a possible very fast third cc. Changes the play of Protoss a lot | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia973 Posts
On one hand, that is what Flash does at times. On another? Doesn't speak too well of his confidence. | ||
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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SCRVN
227 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22435 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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Rainalcar
Croatia479 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
On May 05 2026 19:48 Gorsameth wrote: Snow going for the double expand to try and catch back up Good idea if Flash stays turtled up for too long, but surely Flash will know this is Snow's plan. | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia973 Posts
His goons were really late and range wasn't ordered due to losing all the mining time. He would still be behind even if he pulled on time to save the nexus with 5 goon/probes | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22435 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22435 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
On May 05 2026 19:51 Gorsameth wrote: Snow doing a really good job picking off tanks tho, agree... flash is microing bad his tanks | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
Poll: Recommend Snow vs Flash Game 2? Yes (10) If you have time (6) No (3) 19 total votes Your vote: Recommend Snow vs Flash Game 2? | ||
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2750 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
On May 05 2026 19:55 Terrorbladder wrote: Flash's playstyle has always been "I don't need efficient micro if I'm vastly outnumbering the opponent" his macro is on point ! | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
On May 05 2026 19:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Very obvious win for Flash there. Snow throwing away all three of his first dragoons during that bunker rush defense was really bad. Those losses were def bad. I believe Snow was expecting more follow up from Flash quicker because of those 3 losses, so he made more goons before Nexus to defend the 2nd wave or something. When that didn't come I still think he shoulda went for robo before Nex tho. He had the gas. Double nex just felt like it would only work on X-spawn. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
On May 05 2026 19:55 Terrorbladder wrote: Flash's playstyle has always been "I don't need efficient micro if I'm vastly outnumbering the opponent" this is true in BW in general, if you macro perfectly longer you can just win, not counting a few cheeses. | ||
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johanes
Czech Republic2246 Posts
its not about macro vs macro, its about where the focus is the most effective at the time | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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SCRVN
227 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22435 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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razorsuKe
Canada2039 Posts
(maybe flash will show me why lol) | ||
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:06 Peeano wrote: Nice, double armory~ how the hell he knows ? starsense ! | ||
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Pit667
Poland134 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:06 gravity wrote: 2 base carrier is a bit of a surprise from Snow sometimes we gotta respect rock | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia973 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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Soulforged
Latvia973 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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Soulforged
Latvia973 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:12 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Bro this map is so cheatin for terran. actually unreal. its stupid bad and I'm surprised snow didn't veto it. | ||
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: That's a lot of goliaths. snow has fuck all ground army, might as well just focus on goliaths for the only real threat on the map. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:14 BLinD-RawR wrote: snow has fuck all ground army, might as well just focus on goliaths for the only real threat on the map. Totally agree. Flash's army comp is perfect here lol. | ||
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:15 gravity wrote: So many gols they can't even get out of the base :| indeed hahahaha | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia973 Posts
Letting the force that kill the 4th retreat half alive after was game ending. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
GJ FLASH! | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Snow was just too greedy, too fast I think. Double expand with only a small, immobile army. Greedy ? flash has like 7-8 factories at 7 minutes bro. This map is just giving terran a free win in the series. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22435 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:07 razorsuKe wrote: Guess he showed you indeed :pfinally snow pulling out the OP unit, dunno why it hasn't made an appearance this ASL (maybe flash will show me why lol) | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5183 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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a-game
Canada5214 Posts
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Pit667
Poland134 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:17 Pit667 wrote: lol, prosagi going carries.. still lose xD I believe its pusagi. | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia479 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:17 a-game wrote: I don't get why snow went for such a cheesy carrier rush 😢 What would you do Vs cc first? It's his only chance. And cc first cannot be punished even with standard play here. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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johanes
Czech Republic2246 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:19 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: i dont even know. Does snow goes 11 nexus now ? proxy 2gate or cannon rush | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia479 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7578 Posts
Flash is a monster. My questions has been answered. This dude is still just incredible. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:20 Rainalcar wrote: We had one serious protoss in ro8, and we might have zero in ro4. BW continues on its steady path of becoming a 2+1 race RTS We starting early today. | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia479 Posts
That is super all in and instant loss Vs standard play on Jane doe. Who knows would it even work Vs cc first with the up ramp wall. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
Canon rush bro ? | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7578 Posts
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Rainalcar
Croatia479 Posts
But it's true. We're very close to having really only 2 races capable of winning ASL. Let alone multiple times. | ||
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kAra
Germany1433 Posts
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TMNT
3229 Posts
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Rainalcar
Croatia479 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
flash doing the N scout | ||
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Terrorbladder
2750 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:16 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: What makes it so Terran favored? The gas expansion behind the main can only be approached by air units from one direction?Greedy ? flash has like 7-8 factories at 7 minutes bro. This map is just giving terran a free win in the series. | ||
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
be the impossible eon. be the impossible! | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22435 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:26 Terrorbladder wrote: What makes it so Terran favored? The gas expansion behind the main can only be approached by air units from one direction? Terran eco is untouchable at the start of the game offer him to get 3 command centers so early and you cant punish it. Eco goes skyhigh so quick that you cant do too much. Then the map is also so short that in 2 moves you are already sufocating your opponent expansions.Is just terrible for pvt specially. | ||
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
shuttle is down | ||
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Terrorbladder
2750 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
this defense has gone pretty good for him | ||
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
GAME 5 BABY !!!!!! | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia973 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium5183 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7578 Posts
That game was fkn awesome. With everything on the line Snow micros on the edge of a blade. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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Zergxhx
China208 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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a-game
Canada5214 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:40 Zergxhx wrote: The intensity of this match is approaching that of Tulbo vs Leta. ))))) | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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SCRVN
227 Posts
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Toshinou-Kyouko
Philippines633 Posts
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TMNT
3229 Posts
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Sirris17
22 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:40 a-game wrote: Seems kinda sloppy anyways I'm happy snow won, game 5 baby! 🍿 You should teach them how to not play sloppy gosu | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7578 Posts
Sn0w played with complete confidence in that situation. Even dropping probes, he played with confidence. And the gdm reaver walking within a micron of a siege tanks range, over and over. After Flash was able to no turrent 2 gol repel the early shuttle, I thought the push would just be too juiced. -------- Edit: this match has me emotionally wrecked. lol | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia479 Posts
Poll: Flash build Expand (3) 14 cc (2) Proxy (0) 5 total votes Your vote: Flash build | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
That posture just doesn't look comfortable, and bad to play longer stretches of time with. | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia973 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:42 TMNT wrote: Why didn't he have Shuttle speed there though. Whole game. With speed he could have dismantled that push much cleaner. And it's not like something you can forget either, it feels very awful to have to control a slow Shuttle. Harder to fit in a 4gate into instant citadel as opposed to 6 gate before citadel, probably. Gas constraint at a timing when you want it, better things to do later. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5183 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7578 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:42 TMNT wrote: Why didn't he have Shuttle speed there though. Whole game. With speed he could have dismantled that push much cleaner. And it's not like something you can forget either, it feels very awful to have to control a slow Shuttle. What I'm about to say maybe stupid af, but it seems like .... it is easier to control slow shuttles for what he was doing. Seems crazy, but it really seemed to me slower unit, less accidentally antiair shots. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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TMNT
3229 Posts
Snow could probably close the series already had he gone for 3 bases instead of 4 in the Jane Doe game. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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TMNT
3229 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22435 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:47 TMNT wrote: it does feel like he is going for brute force overwhelming his opponent builds yesAnyway Flash isn't looking as strong as I thought this season. Dropping a 14CC game vs JD and now 2 games vs Snow. Moreover, his wins feel more 'build wins' rather than 'skill wins', if that makes any sense. Snow could probably close the series already had he gone for 3 bases instead of 4 in the Jane Doe game. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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Scarlett`
Korea (South)2399 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:47 Peeano wrote: Close spawn AGAIN btw lol this map horizontal isnt close its like circuit | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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ZiZzy
Germany12 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:52 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: using shuttle to scout is an interesting concept lol I mean everyone and their grandma knows Snows gonna play reaver so why be secretive about it xd | ||
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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SCRVN
227 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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razorsuKe
Canada2039 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:54 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: im a bit worried about SNow expansion position. it seems to be very accessible for flash to attack it. confused why he went for mineral only instead of anything else | ||
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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ZiZzy
Germany12 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22435 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22435 Posts
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alypse
2784 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
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Grettin
42411 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
its not over yet snake | ||
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alypse
2784 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
On May 05 2026 21:00 alypse wrote: uhm hope I didn't speak too soon lol snow is way too far behind to catch up and flash isn't the kind to fuck up | ||
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hasuprotoss
United States4664 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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razorsuKe
Canada2039 Posts
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SkelA
Macedonia13081 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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hasuprotoss
United States4664 Posts
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Grettin
42411 Posts
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Grettin
42411 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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alypse
2784 Posts
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ZiZzy
Germany12 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
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gravity
Australia2198 Posts
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razorsuKe
Canada2039 Posts
he was 1 step ahead the entire time XD | ||
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konadora
Singapore66363 Posts
ㅇㅅㄱ | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
Be warned in the spoiler you will find the Game 5 poll, which is a spoiler! + Show Spoiler + | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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Pit667
Poland134 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46111 Posts
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TheAceOfHearts
United States7 Posts
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a-game
Canada5214 Posts
On May 05 2026 21:03 razorsuKe wrote: flash jumped back before snow gg'd he was 1 step ahead the entire time XD Lol similar thing happened in light vs JD yesterday | ||
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TwiggyWan
France342 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
On May 05 2026 21:03 prosatan wrote: flash zipping his pants haha Flash's secret weapon really is unbutton AND unzip. | ||
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True_Spike
Poland3433 Posts
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Soulforged
Latvia973 Posts
Can't imagine how shaky you get trying to do precise micro over and over in an offline setting (for both players). Sure, they're very used to it, but that's still going to be a crazy adrenaline spike. | ||
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Zariel
Australia1312 Posts
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ZiZzy
Germany12 Posts
On May 05 2026 21:04 Peeano wrote: Flash's secret weapon really is unbutton AND unzip. He's probably one of the rare noble ones that play better when only in underwear | ||
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a-game
Canada5214 Posts
Congrats flash (light vs flash gonna be a boring semifinal tho) | ||
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Sirris17
22 Posts
On May 05 2026 21:03 konadora wrote: holy shit what a fucking insane game by both players ㅇㅅㄱ It was incredibly high level play | ||
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Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines721 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
On May 05 2026 21:04 Peeano wrote: Flash's secret weapon really is unbutton AND unzip. ) flash | ||
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razorsuKe
Canada2039 Posts
On May 05 2026 21:06 a-game wrote: Snow is a weird guy, seems very inconsistent, made a lot of weird decisions that game Congrats flash (light vs flash gonna be a boring semifinal tho) he needs to 1) get reavers and 2) not upgrade speed shuttles LOL somehow he always plays better (and wins) with just slow shuttles | ||
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SCRVN
227 Posts
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Soulforged
Latvia973 Posts
Reavers instantly disappearing didn't help though. Like, godly reaver micro in last fight may have been a close hold (though vulture reinforcement probably would get damage with all goons dead) | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7578 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
mine is 2/4 meh.... | ||
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Sirris17
22 Posts
On May 05 2026 21:08 prosatan wrote: how is your LB in the RO 4 guys ?? mine is 2/4 meh.... 4/4 assuming you meant ro 8 | ||
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alypse
2784 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
On May 05 2026 21:08 prosatan wrote: how is your LB in the RO 4 guys ?? mine is 2/4 meh.... I trolled my LB picking YSC T_T | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5183 Posts
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TMNT
3229 Posts
On May 05 2026 21:04 True_Spike wrote: Even those the reavers were mostly good accross the series, it still felt like Snow's control of them was a bit below of what he usually shows. And I think it cost him 2 games. Fantastic series nonetheless! Shuttle Reaver micro is very fine margin stuff, and most importantly, and this is something people don't often acknowledge, its effectiveness depends on the level of your opponent. Tanks in siege mode outrange Reavers, so basically if you want your Reavers to be effective, it depends on your opponent not leapfrogging tanks perfectly and/or not focus firing. That is, of course, after you control your Shuttle well enough. Snow gets into this status because he micros his Shuttle best among all Protoss players, while no Terran players can consistently achieve close to perfection in Tank control. But sometimes they do, and you'd think the likes of Flash and Light do it more often than others. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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SCRVN
227 Posts
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Simplistik
2140 Posts
The only real storylines now would be crazy Leta upset or Flash beating the best players of each race in the bracket? | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
On May 05 2026 21:17 Simplistik wrote: Mmm. I dunno. This has been the worst Ro8 in quite some time. First week was a loss. Yesterday had some cool games, but anticlimactic finish. No long or close games today. The last game had a long fight, but the game was already decided before that really got going. The only real storylines now would be crazy Leta upset or Flash beating the best players of each race in the bracket? It wouldn't be an awful way to finally retire from offline tournaments. | ||
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Soft_General_5023
138 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium5183 Posts
JD, Light, Flash, Snow had huge hype where the experience itself can never match. Even Leta vs YSC, the underdog match had huge hype around it. Things like that tend to make people feel underwhelmed because of it. | ||
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Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines721 Posts
soma is the worst zerg to go 2port wraith against... in his 33 game marathon session against rush he went burrow so wraiths do no damage, into crazy zerg, with queen+ensnare on the way to hive to completely shutdown the wraiths | ||
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Maks
Ukraine193 Posts
It’s crazy that Protoss has gone title-less for nine consecutive seasons. The last time a Protoss won was Mini back in 2021, five years ago. | ||
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Terrorbladder
2750 Posts
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Rainalcar
Croatia479 Posts
Soma beats Leta Light beats Flash Soma wins Reality Soma beats Leta Flash beats Light Flash wins Either way, we have 3T qualifying for next ASL ro16 and all the talk of T favoured maps proving correct. | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia479 Posts
On May 05 2026 21:25 Maks wrote: I predicted 3-1 scores for both series, but JD and Snow put up a better fight than I expected. Still, the final outcomes were predictable. It’s crazy that Protoss has gone title-less for nine consecutive seasons. The last time a Protoss won was Mini back in 2021, five years ago. Nothing crazy about it. Which P won it so far? Shuttle in ages immemorial lol Rain in objectively super P favoured season And mini, barely That's it? In how many seasons? | ||
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PolAlt
2 Posts
Quarter Finals: Snow, currently top Protoss, GOAT of PvT. Semi Finals: Light, currently best Terran and best TvT (except Flash). Finals(if no upsets): Soma, current champion and likely overall the best Zerg atm. A proper sendoff. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7578 Posts
Can Soma Retain his champion title. He has all ZvT's on Slightly T favored maps for the rest of the event. Can Leta pull off the most unexpected ro4 performance of the season? Yep he already did that. Can he go further? Can Light prove he is the best terran, He beat a near soma level JD, he now faces the GOAT, Can he rip the title out of Flashes hands? Can Flash enter and win a tournament at whim, decide to win solely so that he can retire even more acclaimed and do it despite incredible physical hardships limiting his practice? There are 50 billion ways to look at the tournament we have and be excited. | ||
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
Ro8 Sirris sryy | ||
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Gippy
40 Posts
But that's Flash for you, he scanned it and knew that was the perfect time to strike. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4104 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8914 Posts
https://www.youtube.com/@dotube/videos | ||
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Postalpj
13 Posts
On May 05 2026 21:35 AttackZerg wrote: The people saying no storylines ... like wtf ... Can Soma Retain his champion title. He has all ZvT's on Slightly T favored maps for the rest of the event. Can Leta pull off the most unexpected ro4 performance of the season? Yep he already did that. Can he go further? Can Light prove he is the best terran, He beat a near soma level JD, he now faces the GOAT, Can he rip the title out of Flashes hands? Can Flash enter and win a tournament at whim, decide to win solely so that he can retire even more acclaimed and do it despite incredible physical hardships limiting his practice? There are 50 billion ways to look at the tournament we have and be excited. The real storyline is that Protoss continues to get owned, and that asl put its thumb on the scale to try and get flash a send off win. Storylines that are forced by those that have the power to control things isn’t interesting. Next asl will be like the previous one. Maps that people say is p favored, but they can’t explain why(because they aren’t) and Zerg will win again. I have been watching matches before replays existed. But I have really lost interest because every year it’s more and more obvious Protoss has huge weaknesses compared to the other factions. Rooting for the underdog can be fun, but is also predictable and tiring. Brood war won’t get patched so I am basically checked out after all these years. Congrats to the z and t players for their brilliant choice. I cannot imagine anyone serious about winning games playing Protoss | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1265 Posts
On May 05 2026 23:23 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: I understand the frustration. But at the same time Snow was really close to win vs Flash. I totally blame this loss on that free win on Jane Doe. Sadly we wouldnt know how well he could have done vs Soma in ASL with such mappool. I have the feeling the maps are a bit more helpful to him compared to last season when it comes to pvz. But yeah hard to tell. ASL put all the eggs in Terran Basket to change the race winner this season. It is what it is. His Jane Doe build was a pure throw. All he had to do was play standard. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5183 Posts
I am and will always be convinced by this. They need someone like soma or Flash honestly. | ||
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Soft_General_5023
138 Posts
But yeah, too many terrans and TvT this season | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4179 Posts
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Maks
Ukraine193 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4179 Posts
On May 05 2026 21:45 Gippy wrote: That game 5 ending was questionable. Snow held, but then double expanded and then built 2 stargate and a fleet beacon. That's a ton of resources not going into rebuilding his army. Did he not expect one more timing push from Flash? Seems like just a few extra goons and zealots would've held. But that's Flash for you, he scanned it and knew that was the perfect time to strike. Nah it was a losing position and Snow took a gamble to try and come back. Flash killed his third, reduced army count constantly and took his own third. In those situations Terran just needs to sit back and macro out to 120-140 supply and move out again and Protoss would not have the tools to stop the push especially in close spawns. Dragoons/Zealots instead of the Stargates may have helped abit but it was still 3 base vs 3 base which is Terran favoured. | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4179 Posts
Game 2 - Very tight margin game with marine + scv + vulture vs zealot + probe + dragoon, in these situations if Terran makes just a slight mistake Protoss automatically wins. Great micro as expected from Flash. Game 3 - Expected greedy play from Flash and understandable build from Snow skipping units and robo straight into carriers. I think his plan was to wear Flash down in a long game but underestimated Flash's ability to hit an extremely strong timing push off 3 base. Not sure if Snow forgot the third on Jane Doe has a gas which allowed Flash to win that game. If it was 2 gas Flash never gets enough goliaths. Game 4 - Very optimized no ebay no academy into 6 fact timing from Flash. Brilliant micro from Snow constantly sniping tanks, Flash could have fought better going up the ramp and lost too many tanks there which was key to this game. If Flash kept 3-4 more tanks in that initial fight I think he wins this game. Game 5 - Again 6 fact push from Flash but difference this game was Snow was out of position and should have been standing outside Flash's bridges. Flash micros much better this time and gets a kill on Snow's third. Snow fights on and somehow survives Flash's push on his natural but the position is losing from then on with Flash taking his third. Snow tries to gamble on carriers but Flash is not going to let it slip in these positions. Game 3 - | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10487 Posts
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TMNT
3229 Posts
On May 05 2026 23:53 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: His Jane Doe build was a pure throw. All he had to do was play standard. Jane Doe is no way a free win for Flash. The map is standing at 57% PvT. It's Protoss favored. But I bet it's Protoss favored if both sides open standard, just like in PvZ. But what do you mean by playing standard? Flash's 13 CC then 3rd CC at what, like after 5 minutes? pulls him ahead so hard that no standard play can catch up with. To counter that you have to do a punish build, like proxy 2 Gate DT for example (Tulbo would have beaten Flash here). What Snow should have done is not having the 4th way. Maybe that way he'd have more units and win the first fight and snowball from there. Protoss on Carrier tech doesn't need more bases than Terran. | ||
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oxKnu
1259 Posts
Although, that didn't decide the outcome of this series. Flash was better in the end. | ||
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doktordingerdonger
120 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12041 Posts
On May 06 2026 00:03 Uldridge wrote: P needs to reinvent themselves. They have all the tools they need. I am and will always be convinced by this. They need someone like soma or Flash honestly. As much as I hated him and how long ago this was that person was and always will be Jangbi. However many years on and it doesn't feel like any of the current protoss have PvT that stand up to his. FlaSh also played insanely well this series, game 5 was odd as well as Snow barely held on every single time and then decided after holding rather than consolidating he'd double expand and go for 2 stargates. That was never going to end well, FlaSh just had more shit. Great series from both players though. Jane Doe he probably would've won against any other terran, but FlaSh vs Carriers has always been one of his major strong points due to how insanely good his macro is. On May 05 2026 21:13 Peeano wrote: Light vs Flash into Leta vs T would be one of the worst things this great ASL can end like. As a TvT fan I disagree haha, all three of those players have historically had really good and interesting TvT playstyles. If you were going to have 2 TvTs to finish the ASL, having it be those players (given FanTaSy is never coming back to save me) is not a terrible outcome. I think Light definitely has a chance to take FlaSh here, all he has to do is push for longer games if he can as FlaSh is very clearly trying to end games sooner rather than later to protect his wrists. Light is also a great TvT player so even if FlaSh is one of the old gods, both Light and Leta have a strong chance to take him out now. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4267 Posts
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Last Romantic
United States20665 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France8111 Posts
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Kraekkling
713 Posts
Soma will be waiting for you in the finals buddy | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1265 Posts
On May 06 2026 01:20 TMNT wrote: Jane Doe is no way a free win for Flash. The map is standing at 57% PvT. It's Protoss favored. But I bet it's Protoss favored if both sides open standard, just like in PvZ. But what do you mean by playing standard? Flash's 13 CC then 3rd CC at what, like after 5 minutes? pulls him ahead so hard that no standard play can catch up with. To counter that you have to do a punish build, like proxy 2 Gate DT for example (Tulbo would have beaten Flash here). What Snow should have done is not having the 4th way. Maybe that way he'd have more units and win the first fight and snowball from there. Protoss on Carrier tech doesn't need more bases than Terran. I meant SnOw should have played standard all the way from the start. SnOw didn't play like he does usually. He was playimg reactively all the way from the start instead of his usual style of taking the initiative. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
On May 06 2026 02:52 Last Romantic wrote: Good series, but Snow can't ignore 1/3 of the Protoss tech tree against Flash... True, in a Bo5 it shouldn't hurt to play DT/HT/Arbiter at least once before reaching 2 losses. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8111 Posts
On May 06 2026 03:44 Peeano wrote: True, in a Bo5 it shouldn't hurt to play DT/HT/Arbiter at least once before reaching 2 losses. I don’t know, Snow strength really is in his reavers, i think expecting to beat Flash with Arbiter would have been very optimistic. If it was not for some unbelievable reaver control this series would have looked like a complete demolition. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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Last Romantic
United States20665 Posts
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Soulforged
Latvia973 Posts
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9935 Posts
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Vasoline73
United States8067 Posts
GGs I think Light may be a favorite against Flash in the next round? | ||
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TMNT
3229 Posts
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Lazyer
United States388 Posts
I'm so used to seeing Snow trounce on T's in ASL, it was great to see a close series. | ||
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caelym
United States6429 Posts
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TonDan04
51 Posts
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Ideas
United States8171 Posts
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SCRVN
227 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4179 Posts
On May 06 2026 12:22 Ideas wrote: soma vs flash would be such a great conclusion to this season and flash's career. So of course we'll end up getting leta vs light lol. There is just no way in hell Leta beats Soma imo. Soma would have to throw so hard | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13426 Posts
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Vasoline73
United States8067 Posts
On May 05 2026 20:45 Peeano wrote: Btw, the way Flash is sitting kinda reminds me of the South Park WoW episode. That posture just doesn't look comfortable, and bad to play longer stretches of time with. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/ql4Mmdw.jpeg) | ||
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Sirris17
22 Posts
On May 06 2026 06:40 Vasoline73 wrote: I was rooting for Flash but I have to hand it to Snow... he has improved a lot as a player since the last time he played Flash in a series. I thought Flash was going to 3-0 him. GGs I think Light may be a favorite against Flash in the next round? Ok go ahead and think that.. You're out of you're fking mind and dont understand the game or what you're watching , but yea go ahead and think that | ||
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Sirris17
22 Posts
On May 06 2026 14:57 Dante08 wrote: There is just no way in hell Leta beats Soma imo. Soma would have to throw so hard Finally someone says something that makes sense, but go ahead yall make awful predictions again! lmao | ||
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Sirris17
22 Posts
On May 06 2026 06:49 TMNT wrote: Considering Snow recently lost 2-7 to Speed and 5-8 to Light in the chinese ultimate battle, he actually played very well today. Or maybe Flash is not that scary.... we'll see. You say sooo many wrong things.. where is your rank on betting? You look at stats but do you watch anything? Youre out of mind if you think that flash isnt scary. Wtf is wrong with people? lol. It like showing someone prime mike tyson and theyre like "oooo welll hes not that good..." yea he is that good. You people need to shhh i'm trying to help you. Flash is 100% winning this ASL . Go ahead bet me 20 dollars each right now .. Please. I'm not even being a fanboy im just so fking mad at your super questionable take...but hey ...wanna bet buddy? Or would you like to stop talking? Let me know what kind of bet you would like to do but i got flash 100% .. youll all do well to listen. | ||
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Sirris17
22 Posts
On May 06 2026 12:30 SCRVN wrote: ^ FlaSh practiced with soma so much because he knows he will not have to play with soma in this season. I have to teach you newbs..once again...its going to be Soma vs Flash in the finals | ||
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TMNT
3229 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12041 Posts
On May 06 2026 00:20 Maks wrote: We need to look at the bigger picture, not just a single season. Sure, Protoss will win again sooner or later, but the long-term trend is hard to ignore. Their trophy count lags way behind Zerg and especially Terran, despite having legendary talents like Rain, Snow, Bisu, and Mini in the mix. The skill is definitely there, but the results just don't reflect it. I think the biggest cause of this is PvZ. Protoss historically started doing well in tournaments after the Bisu revolution and even then it was due to Stork and Jangbi mostly alongside Bisu. The issue is zerg evolved and Protoss never really found a decent answer. A big gap happened and Bisu fell off compared to his past self and it doesn't really feel like anyone else has ever managed to get consistently good at the matchup again. Zerg have so many overly powerful allins and semi allins early on and the only way you can stop it is to go heavily protoss favoured map wise which then ironically often helps Terran against Protoss as well. PvZ just feels like a completely problematic matchup from 1 side and I'm not sure what Protoss are ever going to be able to do to get out of the rut they're in. The game ends so fast early on if you don't defend hard enough and if you defend too hard you get lurker contained and die later, it just doesn't seem solvable. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1265 Posts
On May 06 2026 19:39 TMNT wrote: The fuck is wrong with the dude above, attacking everyone who doesn't share the same thought with him. Drugs, alcohol, and probably a mental health condition. About PvZ. I think Paralyze holds an answer to PvZ, but not in his late game, but in his Early to Mid game transition. Paralyze generally holds any early to mid aggression better than the top 5 protoss do. But his transition into late is lacking in decisiveness and decision making. If the other top tosses can incorporate what allows paralyze to thrive against early aggression and hydra bust, we might see them create a late transition that works better than what Paralyze does. | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3496 Posts
On May 06 2026 23:09 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: Drugs, alcohol, and probably a mental health condition. About PvZ. I think Paralyze holds an answer to PvZ, but not in his late game, but in his Early to Mid game transition. Paralyze generally holds any early to mid aggression better than the top 5 protoss do. But his transition into late is lacking in decisiveness and decision making. If the other top tosses can incorporate what allows paralyze to thrive against early aggression and hydra bust, we might see them create a late transition that works better than what Paralyze does. I agree with you about Paralyze style however from the few recent games i ve seen it looks like it s precisely his early/mid game defense prowess that causes issues in late game. But yeah maybe a good transition could be mapped | ||
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Maks
Ukraine193 Posts
On May 06 2026 22:51 Qikz wrote: I think the biggest cause of this is PvZ. Protoss historically started doing well in tournaments after the Bisu revolution and even then it was due to Stork and Jangbi mostly alongside Bisu. The issue is zerg evolved and Protoss never really found a decent answer. A big gap happened and Bisu fell off compared to his past self and it doesn't really feel like anyone else has ever managed to get consistently good at the matchup again. To be honest, I feel like TvZ is even more imbalanced than ZvP—or at least just as broken. However, a top-tier Zerg can beat almost any Terran in a BoX series at the highest level. Why Protoss can’t pull off the same is a mystery to me. Looking at the StarLeague history (OSL, MSL, KSL, ASL), Bisu’s win over sAviOr remains the sole exception. Aside from that one series, Protoss is 0 for 12 in finals against Zerg. That’s a staggering statistic. On May 06 2026 22:51 Qikz wrote: Zerg have so many overly powerful allins and semi allins early on and the only way you can stop it is to go heavily protoss favoured map wise which then ironically often helps Terran against Protoss as well. PvZ just feels like a completely problematic matchup from 1 side and I'm not sure what Protoss are ever going to be able to do to get out of the rut they're in. I think the core issue isn’t even the strength of the all-ins themselves, but the fact that Protoss lacks reliable scouting. Probes and Zealots are way slower than lings, and by the time a Corsair is out, it’s often too late to react. | ||
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hixhix
1158 Posts
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Rainalcar
Croatia479 Posts
On May 07 2026 03:06 Maks wrote: To be honest, I feel like TvZ is even more imbalanced than ZvP—or at least just as broken. However, a top-tier Zerg can beat almost any Terran in a BoX series at the highest level. Why Protoss can’t pull off the same is a mystery to me. Looking at the StarLeague history (OSL, MSL, KSL, ASL), Bisu’s win over sAviOr remains the sole exception. Aside from that one series, Protoss is 0 for 12 in finals against Zerg. That’s a staggering statistic. I think the core issue isn’t even the strength of the all-ins themselves, but the fact that Protoss lacks reliable scouting. Probes and Zealots are way slower than lings, and by the time a Corsair is out, it’s often too late to react. It's the fact that Z sees all while P sees nothing. It's a broken matchup. 0/12 in finals... what more proof do we need? Either change the paradigm entirely of what a standard map is, or push for a small cannon patch at least. And what does it say about our mapmaking skill if after 20!!! years we don't know how to make a slightly favoured P map? TvZ is indeed also T favoured, but Z at least can play incredible and overcome the disadvantage. It's not easy, but it's doable. Terran has it by far the best. Flash would be just one of the players if he picked P. It's impossible to dominate as P. | ||
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1315 Posts
On May 07 2026 00:58 WGT-Baal wrote: I agree with you about Paralyze style however from the few recent games i ve seen it looks like it s precisely his early/mid game defense prowess that causes issues in late game. But yeah maybe a good transition could be mapped Honestly, I don't think there can be a good (consistent) transition. Paralyze is just more risk adverse in the early/mid game than say... Bisu, who, lets be honest, has been the golden standard of PvZ for pretty much all of 2 decades now. There is a reason Bisu is extremely aggressive at the sorts of times when he only has a single digit number of fighting units, be it zealots, or corsairs. He wants that information. The poking, and the subsequent zerg response to it informs him what the zerg might be doing, of course some economic damage to the zerg would also be nice. I think results tell us that this information is extremely important going into the mid and late game. So it's a tradeoff between playing extremely safe and having very little information, or taking risks with your early units that might cause you to die to early aggression from Z and/or having no map presence if you lose those units. Zerg are much more flexible in terms of unit composition and when to concentrate on economy, since all their units come from hatches. It looks like to me, Bisu's solution is to always be running units around to scout/poke and constantly make zerg show you unit count/composition etc. Obviously, the downside is, if he miscontrols those early units, or zerg specifically go after them, he is going have no units early on and be in trouble against aggression. | ||
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goody153
44280 Posts
At least with tvz there is a chance to bring down soma Yeah I gotta agree that pvz has scouting problem like zerg has ways to obscure scouting for protoss but protoss cant. I dont even think protoss has like a reliable all-in in the matchup | ||
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Sorusaba
309 Posts
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2_2
Poland40 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22435 Posts
On May 07 2026 20:32 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: I think it could just as easily be that Flash didn't want to needlessly stress his hands by playing multiple 40+ minute games in a row.I think something interesting about TvP these days is that Terran is heavily going for timings over the more classic fortress playstyle. And FlaSh being the king of map dominating and the guy that perfected such style not even doing it 1 time the whole series was for sure surprising to me. But that seems to be the trend these days. If his hands are really an issue and cause him to quit after this tournament then it makes sense to close out games as quickly as reasonably possible | ||
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Highways
Australia6119 Posts
Flash was just doing 2 base timing all ins | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
On May 07 2026 20:35 Gorsameth wrote: I think it could just as easily be that Flash didn't want to needlessly stress his hands by playing multiple 40+ minute games in a row. If his hands are really an issue and cause him to quit after this tournament then it makes sense to close out games as quickly as reasonably possible Im talking about the general state of tvp as a whole matchup tho. These days they truly give priority over spike timings rather than map control. Yeha sure FlaSh has hand issues but are the other terrans also having issues to play map control too ? For example when i saw all the new maps introduced. I was expecting a total domination of terran map control cuz of how easy it is to setup 4 bases and in some cases 5 bases to defend vs protoss. I rarely see games like that. | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia973 Posts
The efficiency stopped scaling as much as army grows. Used to be that the larger the T army the scarier it is, and that remains to be the case in a way, but the scaling is different now due to mass usage of storm, shuttle mobility, generally better macro from P's, better army movement etc. Defensive efficiency still scales like crazy, offense less so. A 11 tank army moveout that has perfect staggered sieges and focus fire and stops versus bombs, repair, floated buildings, perfect reinforcements and so on, is going to be fucking scary unless you have DTs when they start to move out, or storm when they hit / arbiter cloak. Usually it has to be contended with by regular goon-reaver into zealot speed. That level of precision for T cannot be maintained for a larger force and the game becomes messier. For the series specifically - the whole idea of taking risk early(e.g. discounting DTs) plays better into a scary timing push than into macro. | ||
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Maks
Ukraine193 Posts
On May 07 2026 06:17 Rainalcar wrote: It's the fact that Z sees all while P sees nothing. In the deciding game of last season's semifinals against Soma, Bisu lost specifically because he couldn't scout the ling all-in. This season, he dropped Game 1 to JD for the exact same reason: he had no way to read the lurker all-in, let alone the constant threat of Hydra busts. It’s not an exaggeration to say that the lack of reliable early-game scouting is a fundamental flaw in the matchup. On May 07 2026 06:17 Rainalcar wrote: 0/12 in finals... I decided to also look at the ZvP finals of some less prestigious tournaments and leagues to see how they played out with and without Bisu. The results were even worse than I expected. In addition to the four major Starleagues (OSL, MSL, KSL, ASL), I included WCG, GOMTV Classic, BlizzCon (tournaments only, no exhibition matches), and Sonic Starleague. Here’s what I found: Without Bisu: 0-17. Protoss has never won a major tournament final against Zerg. Bisu’s finals: 2-3. Two wins (over SAviOr and herO) and three losses (to JD, Effort, and herO). So, the overall record is 2 wins and 20 losses in favor of Zerg - far worse than what the already poor balance suggests. Other factors like maps, meta, player skill, and luck might also be at play. | ||
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PolAlt
2 Posts
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Nirli
Bulgaria387 Posts
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m4ch1n1cd351r3
19 Posts
On May 07 2026 21:30 Soulforged wrote: IMO spike timings are extremely strong due to babysitting of Terran army The efficiency stopped scaling as much as army grows. Used to be that the larger the T army the scarier it is, and that remains to be the case in a way, but the scaling is different now due to mass usage of storm, shuttle mobility, generally better macro from P's, better army movement etc. Defensive efficiency still scales like crazy, offense less so. A 11 tank army moveout that has perfect staggered sieges and focus fire and stops versus bombs, repair, floated buildings, perfect reinforcements and so on, is going to be fucking scary unless you have DTs when they start to move out, or storm when they hit / arbiter cloak. Usually it has to be contended with by regular goon-reaver into zealot speed. That level of precision for T cannot be maintained for a larger force and the game becomes messier. For the series specifically - the whole idea of taking risk early(e.g. discounting DTs) plays better into a scary timing push than into macro. Great post. The keyword for Terran in general is precision, both in terms of focus firing and of attack timings. Terran is ride-or-die on sharp two-base play at the highest level, basically, for those reasons, in both mech and bio play. Artosis likes to talk about Light as some kind of paragon for standard play, but Light's standard play is more like a Zerg player's standard play than a Terran player's IMO. Flash and Royal, on the other hand, play the paradigmatic Terran. | | | That being said, I was pretty shocked by Snow's losing cross-map nexus first into two-base carrier. | ||
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ruhtraeel
Canada134 Posts
IMO Ssak is stupidly godly at that matchup for some reason | ||
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Highways
Australia6119 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4179 Posts
On May 07 2026 20:32 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: I think something interesting about TvP these days is that Terran is heavily going for timings over the more classic fortress playstyle. And FlaSh being the king of map dominating and the guy that perfected such style not even doing it 1 time the whole series was for sure surprising to me. But that seems to be the trend these days. Jinjin made a video about Flash's ro16 preparation, he mentioned himself he was extremely stubborn in going for mech even though he won every game in practice going for bio. Maybe going 6 fact was the same stubbornness lol | ||
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doktordingerdonger
120 Posts
On May 07 2026 22:51 Maks wrote: In the deciding game of last season's semifinals against Soma, Bisu lost specifically because he couldn't scout the ling all-in. This season, he dropped Game 1 to JD for the exact same reason: he had no way to read the lurker all-in, let alone the constant threat of Hydra busts. It’s not an exaggeration to say that the lack of reliable early-game scouting is a fundamental flaw in the matchup. I decided to also look at the ZvP finals of some less prestigious tournaments and leagues to see how they played out with and without Bisu. The results were even worse than I expected. In addition to the four major Starleagues (OSL, MSL, KSL, ASL), I included WCG, GOMTV Classic, BlizzCon (tournaments only, no exhibition matches), and Sonic Starleague. Here’s what I found: Without Bisu: 0-17. Protoss has never won a major tournament final against Zerg. Bisu’s finals: 2-3. Two wins (over SAviOr and herO) and three losses (to JD, Effort, and herO). So, the overall record is 2 wins and 20 losses in favor of Zerg - far worse than what the already poor balance suggests. Other factors like maps, meta, player skill, and luck might also be at play. Bro, PvZ is not a 10% winrate as this suggest. It is zerg favored, but not 10% winrate for protoss. It also shows that the distribution of protoss talent is heavily centered at the average, with very little outliers to either extremes. They do not win tournaments, but they can also make a living while being horrible. This is why ASL winner Shuttle existed, and still exists. Why Tulbo exist. How Snow makes deep runs with only his micro and nothing else, and BSL level optimization of builds. | ||
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doktordingerdonger
120 Posts
On May 08 2026 08:57 Highways wrote: The main reason why Protoss don't win titles is not because of Terran, it's because of PvZ is hard And yet zergs win tournaments despite PvZ and TvZ imbalance in terms of winrates by high elo being about equal, while protoss do not. You cannot only blame PvZ here for the inability of protoss to win anything, as if PvT were as imbalanced in favor of protoss as the other two matchups, then surely we would have equal tournament winrates, right? Currently, its T>Z>P with T>P instead of P>T. Y'all should blame ASL for these terran maps and terrans for the inability of winning anything these pasts ASLs despite the imbalance being in favor of terrans. This could have been the most hype ASL but it is ruined by these maps. | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2414 Posts
On May 05 2026 21:13 Peeano wrote: Light vs Flash into Leta vs T would be one of the worst things this great ASL can end like. Not when Wraith Flaming Skull takes the trophy!!! Hey, a man can dream... EDIT @ Previous Poster: How the fuck has this ASL been "ruined"?! It's been great! | ||
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Highways
Australia6119 Posts
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Highways
Australia6119 Posts
On May 08 2026 13:05 doktordingerdonger wrote: Currently, its T>Z>P with T>P instead of P>T. Snow has been destroying Terrans last few seasons He lost because Flash countered the same reaver build he does every game with 2 base all in's. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8111 Posts
On May 08 2026 15:24 Highways wrote: Snow has been destroying Terrans last few seasons He lost because Flash countered the same reaver build he does every game with 2 base all in's. I think it’s fair to say that Flash is a higher caliber player than Snow. Snow has obvious weaknesses. His macro is not great compared to that of his rivals, his optimization is often described as poor. And yes, his micro is unbelievable and his game sense is superb. Flash has no real weak point. He is the best or close to the best at everything among terrans. The fact that the match was so close tells us that the matchup is really fairly balanced at their level. Generally, it’s in the qualifiers that terrans have been a bit too strong. Past the group stage, balance has looked fairly good imo. | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4339 Posts
Put JD in leta or tulbo place and you get 2z and 2t in semis instead of 3 T. Sometimes its just the luck of the draw. Also having a bunch of new posters sign up and complain about balance is always the same old bait routine. | ||
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Bonyth
Poland605 Posts
Of course StarCraft is not going to get any balance patch and I'm just saying this so people accept that this game isnt perfectly balanced at the top and move on. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
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Maks
Ukraine193 Posts
On May 08 2026 13:05 doktordingerdonger wrote: Currently, its T>Z>P with T>P instead of P>T. I wonder what happened to the PvT matchup? Back in the KeSPA era, it leaned slightly in Protoss’s favor, if I recall correctly. There certainly wasn't a massive disparity like in TvZ or ZvP, but it was still considered a tough hill to climb for Terrans. | ||
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m4ch1n1cd351r3
19 Posts
On May 08 2026 20:00 Maks wrote: I wonder what happened to the PvT matchup? Back in the KeSPA era, it leaned slightly in Protoss’s favor, if I recall correctly. There certainly wasn't a massive disparity like in TvZ or ZvP, but it was still considered a tough hill to climb for Terrans. Some of it is due to map changes and some of it is due to Terran optimizations' improving faster than Protoss can manage, given that Protoss is vulnerable: -before robotics facility -before Dragoon range -before Zealot speed -before High Templars + Psionic Storm. | ||
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jmk12
7 Posts
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1265 Posts
On May 08 2026 22:28 jmk12 wrote: I mean, nothing happened really. Every terran on earth except for Flash would be a massive underdog against snow in a prolonged series. It is just that Flash is that far ahead of every other terran. But he is also that far ahead of every other player in every other race. Heck, Flash plying protoss is good enough that he would probably qualify for almost every ASL. I don't know of any other player who is even remotely that good plying off race. Light is considered, by pros, almost equal to snow in PvT. And presently Speed is considered 3rd best TvP after FlaSh and Light. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11086 Posts
PvZ is a problem and it's going to require serious mapwork to fix. The information edge and ability to rush at no cost is a huge problem. Incredbile the matchup is so competitive as it is. | ||
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jmk12
7 Posts
[B]Light is considered, by pros, almost equal to snow in PvT. And presently Speed is considered 3rd best TvP after FlaSh and Light. I haven't spoken to any pros so I can't comment on that, but their head to head statistics certainly do not support this claim. Whichever range you look at on the Liquipedia head to head counter, Snow comes out significantly ahead. | ||
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Vasoline73
United States8067 Posts
On May 08 2026 16:29 KobraKay wrote: And we also have to consider the weakest terran got a walkover this round given his opponent's low level of play in the games. Put JD in leta or tulbo place and you get 2z and 2t in semis instead of 3 T. Sometimes its just the luck of the draw. Also having a bunch of new posters sign up and complain about balance is always the same old bait routine. I don't think he means to do it so I wouldn't call him a troll but 90% of doktordingerdonger's posts are balance whines... there is another guy or 2 who are similar... :/. Gets old! PvZ is tough but we don't need to hear about Tesagi every LR thread... | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia479 Posts
On May 09 2026 10:41 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: Light is considered, by pros, almost equal to snow in PvT. And presently Speed is considered 3rd best TvP after FlaSh and Light. Precisely. And flash offrace being by far the best? Lol please | ||
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Postalpj
13 Posts
[QUOTE]On May 08 2026 16:29 KobraKay wrote: Gets old! PvZ is tough but we don't need to hear about Tesagi every LR thread... [/QUOTE] That’s a fair take. I do complain a good amount about balance, but it’s mostly a response to people saying the game is super balanced when it’s clear P is a tier below the other two. I try to post about it less, but mostly i just watch and engage with BW stuff less and less so I’ll be out of your hair soon enough. We all know if flash spent his career playing Protoss he would be considered a top tier Protoss. However he would only have 1-2 titles. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7000 Posts
![[image loading]](https://meme.app/templates/bad-bunny-crying-at-the-grammys.gif) | ||
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jmk12
7 Posts
On May 09 2026 22:08 Rainalcar wrote: Precisely. And flash offrace being by far the best? Lol please The best offrace, obviously not the best overall... unless there is someone else who is better at playing offrace than Flash that you know of? | ||
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Incomplete..ReV
Norway661 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12041 Posts
On May 08 2026 20:00 Maks wrote: I wonder what happened to the PvT matchup? Back in the KeSPA era, it leaned slightly in Protoss’s favor, if I recall correctly. There certainly wasn't a massive disparity like in TvZ or ZvP, but it was still considered a tough hill to climb for Terrans. I'm going to spoiler this, because at the end of the day I'm a terrible player and have absolutely no real basis for this opinion other than how I'm viewing games and how I remember games being. The final part I don't think requires any real skill to be able to say I feel so I'll not spoiler that bit. + Show Spoiler + I genuinely think part of this is due to how Protoss expand now. I think this is likely due to the fact that Terran aggresion got better, but in the past (2008-2011 at least) Protoss were always expected to take another main as soon as possible to get gates up at another starting location, the reason for this is historically I remember people saying that one protoss army isn't going to be enough to take down a full 3-3 terran army, you always need reinforcements to finish it off. By expanding to another main and getting the gates up quicker the Terran when attacking one location has more to worry about as not all the units are coming out of the same base. Now it feels like Protoss will get up to 4 bases before even attempting to go towards another main. I guess maybe part of this is on the map design, but expanding to a quick main just doesn't seem to be a thing anymore. I guess it's because of optimisation, terrans attacking a lot faster so you likely have less room to fit in another 8+ gates before the Terran is at your front door, but it definitely feels like currently Terran have it easy if they get a strong enough army as they just sit outside the main while killing all the side bases seperately. Also in the KeSPA era you had a lot more active players back then meaning you had some TvP specialists and PvT specialists who rose above the ranks. It always felt like there were more PvT specialists than there were TvP specialists though! Stork and later JangBi back then were on an absolute other level that it doesn't feel like anyone currently is anywhere near that level of play. You've also got to take into account that there overall were a lot fewer games being played than there are now, at least publically. You had Proleague, OSL and MSL and that was it. Now you've got some of the same players playing 100s of games a week in front of an audience even if there is only ASL as a major tournament. | ||
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felleN
Australia95 Posts
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Artas1984
149 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
On May 14 2026 04:07 Artas1984 wrote: Peeano, or Blind-rawr, please include game nr. 5 poll. https://tl.net/forum/bw-tournaments/645026-asl21-ro8-day-4?page=15#291 It is there, but it's a spoiler. It's overwhelming postitive recommended, so just watch the game. | ||
ImbaTosS
United Kingdom1717 Posts
After watching Flash vs Light in the following round, I feel it must be said that we must acknowledge the incredible skill in Snow to being so close to winning vs Flash. I end up feeling so bad for Snow to get beaten by the winner, seemingly every time, and yet be without a championship himself. | ||
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Match Point
