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[ASL19] Ro8 Day 4 - Page 10

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Recommended Games
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Poll: Recommend Rush vs Soulkey Game 1?

Yes (16)
 
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If you have time (0)
 
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(Vote): Yes
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Poll: Recommend Rush vs Soulkey Game 2?

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+ Show Spoiler [Game 3] +
Poll: Recommend Rush vs Soulkey Game 3?

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+ Show Spoiler [Game 4] +
Poll: Recommend Rush vs Soulkey Game 4?

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+ Show Spoiler [Game 5] +
Poll: Recommend Rush vs Soulkey Game 5?

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+ Show Spoiler [Game 6] +

+ Show Spoiler [Game 7] +

TMNT
Profile Joined January 2021
2530 Posts
May 09 2025 15:01 GMT
#181
On May 09 2025 20:47 goody153 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2025 12:57 Severedevil wrote:
Snow, please bring reavers back to PvZ. There's gotta be a unit composition that makes them effective in the midgame. They're powerful AOE that's cheap on gas, and they even outrange lurkers!

There was a DT-Reaver timing like a decade ago iirc maybe that'll make a comeback. It looked stupid strong although idk how well it will do against modern zergs especially the current best zerg and the most dominating player

Zerg can just suicide some units on the Shuttle and it's job done. It's not a viable strat on modern games.

There are two scenario that Snow can beat Soulkey: massive build order luck (the kind of blind 12 Nexus/ no scout builds that Mini tends to use, or what Best did to Queen earlier), or Soulkey just underperforms on that day.

If both players make no major mistakes and just play the game out in a standard manner, like in a lengthy 20+ minute macro game, Zerg wins most of the times. And Snow plays standard 90 percent of the times.
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Profile Joined December 2023
Netherlands740 Posts
May 09 2025 15:28 GMT
#182
Reaver is viable on certain maps that have difficult to traverse terrain for the zerg to quickly respond to the shuttle moving around between bases. Metropolis for example is pretty good, much like how we had La Campanella being a good map for offensive reavers vs zerg. As long as the hydras can be outpaced by shuttle movement, reaver shuttle is viable.
JDON MY SOUL!
TornadoSteve
Profile Joined March 2018
1001 Posts
May 09 2025 17:07 GMT
#183
On May 10 2025 00:28 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
Reaver is viable on certain maps that have difficult to traverse terrain for the zerg to quickly respond to the shuttle moving around between bases. Metropolis for example is pretty good, much like how we had La Campanella being a good map for offensive reavers vs zerg. As long as the hydras can be outpaced by shuttle movement, reaver shuttle is viable.


Let me add that reavers does poorly against air units
Gippy
Profile Joined March 2024
9 Posts
May 09 2025 19:21 GMT
#184
Game 2 was disgusting. Rush was up 51 supply (135-84) on Soulkey but couldn't break through because of fast defilers. What exactly was Rush supposed to do in that situation? 30-40 supply for each player would be workers, so Rush's army was about double the supply of Soulkey's. Then in the endgame, Rush lost the supply lead and GG'd less than a minute later.

In any other matchup, a 51 supply lead means you're going to win 9 times out of 10. It just seems totally insane that fast defilers with Dark Swarm + Consume can stall that big of an army until the macro from the extra base kicks in.
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8471 Posts
May 09 2025 23:11 GMT
#185
On May 10 2025 04:21 Gippy wrote:
Game 2 was disgusting. Rush was up 51 supply (135-84) on Soulkey but couldn't break through because of fast defilers. What exactly was Rush supposed to do in that situation? 30-40 supply for each player would be workers, so Rush's army was about double the supply of Soulkey's. Then in the endgame, Rush lost the supply lead and GG'd less than a minute later.

In any other matchup, a 51 supply lead means you're going to win 9 times out of 10. It just seems totally insane that fast defilers with Dark Swarm + Consume can stall that big of an army until the macro from the extra base kicks in.


I think most of that is because of the early and mid game. Rush scouted what Soulkey was doing way too late to react to it in a proper way. Because of that he went for a suboptimal tech against the lurkers and Soulkey got a very fast third up completely unscathed (wasn't even pressured, had to build 0 sunkens, lost 0 drones). Soulkey also caught the first group of M&Ms out on the map and took a very favourable trade. At that point, if he had gone muta, I would dare to say he probably could have ended the game. Then Rush took some unfavourable trades against the soft contain. All this enabled Soulkey to go into late game with a very large lead, especially tech-wise.
Supplies can lie in TvZ because they don't show which player is ahead in tech, which is much more important in this match up. 150 terran supply means nothing if it's just M&M's with a couple of vessels and a couple of tanks against a dozen defilers. You would need a fleet of vessels at that point.
Appart from that, I also think Soulkey's defense was insane. At every point he was a step ahead of Rush, i.e. his defense was already set up when Rush arrived. Usually what you do as Terran is to attack on multiple fronts, use drops, move around the dark swarms. Rush used one drop all game and then parked it in the top left for the rest of the game. The rest of his army moved around as one blob instead of trying to hit two or more locations at once. To be fair, the map helped Soulkey quite a bit in his defensive stance. There were hardly any weaknesses in his defense I could spot (which doesn't mean there were none).
I personally wonder if Rush could have transitioned into mech as well when I saw how the map helped Soulkey defend 4 bases. Seems good for mech on paper but he might have been too far behind to switch.
Emnjay808
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States10654 Posts
May 11 2025 05:36 GMT
#186
Soulkey making Rush look like chop liver. No matter what, Im always impressed with how seamlessly Soulkey gets plague off. Its a thing of art.
Skol
sM.Zik
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada2544 Posts
15 hours ago
#187
By the way, the LR Thread should replace Nyoken and eonzerg for Saiyan and Xun as casters!
Jaedong Fighting! | youtube.com/ZikGaming
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