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Wizard
Poland5055 Posts
![[image loading]](http://teamliquid.net/staff/KizZBG/gomtv3.jpg) GomTV S3 MSL - Round of 16 Game 2 (and if necessary, game 3) for Matches B, C, D, G, H  July < Loki II >  TheManiaMST free < Python > LomosAviOr < Blue Storm > StorkNal_rA < Zodiac > fOrGGXellOs < Loki II > CanataThird games, if necessary: July < Zodiac > TheManiaMSTfree < Loki II > LomosAviOr < Python > StorkNal_rA < Loki II > fOrGGXellOs < Python > CanataResults: + Show Spoiler + | ||
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
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skindzer
Chile5114 Posts
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Wizard
Poland5055 Posts
July > TheManiaMST (2 - 1) free > Lomo (2 - 0) sAviOr > Stork (2 - 0) Nal_rA > fOrGG (2 - 0) XellOs > Canata (2 - 1) | ||
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triangle
United States3803 Posts
I really don't want to see mania in the round of 8. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
it would be nice to see yet another cj player become a monster but also nice to see july in contention for another title | ||
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Hold-Lurker
United States403 Posts
(C'mon Nal Ra!) | ||
KizZBG
u gotta skate8152 Posts
Free 2:0 Savior 2:0 Nal_rA 2:0 Xellos 2:1 | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
On October 18 2007 07:51 Hold-Lurker wrote: Do they play all 5 of the 2nd round matches first and then play the necessary 3rd matches after, or do they play 1 of the 2nd round matches and immediately following with a third if necessary before moving on to the next two players? .. sorry if that's confusing. (C'mon Nal Ra!) if a series is 1-1 they'll play the decider right after, that's how they did it last season | ||
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aZnvaLiaNce
United States942 Posts
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XellOs_PlutO
Korea (South)166 Posts
free > Lomo (2 - 1) sAviOr > Stork (2 - 0) Nal_rA > fOrGG (2 - 0) XellOs > Canata (2 - 1) looks like i gotta set my alarm clock at 5:30 in the morning t.t | ||
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
On October 18 2007 08:20 Jyvblamo wrote: I hope these games drag on long enough so I can catch some live tomorrow morning. And I hope they don't drag on too long so I won't miss any by having to go to class in the morning. Hoping for some good games from this bunch, it should be exciting. Predictions: + Show Spoiler + July > TheManiaMST @ Loki II July > TheManiaMST @ Zodiac free > Lomo @ Python Savior > Stork @ Blue Storm Nal_rA < fOrGG @ Zodiac Nal_rA > fOrGG @ Loki II Xellos < Canata @ Loki II | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
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Lhyviathan
Australia975 Posts
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Pervect
1280 Posts
free > Lomo (2 - 1) sAviOr > Stork (2 - 0) Nal_rA > fOrGG (2 - 0) Canata > XellOs (2 - 0) | ||
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skindzer
Chile5114 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i23.tinypic.com/elw6d.jpg) | ||
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i.play.ZERG
Canada276 Posts
On October 18 2007 10:21 skindzer wrote: QUOTED FOR TRUTH | ||
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StripedBlueCrow
United States506 Posts
On October 18 2007 10:21 skindzer wrote: FOR THE WIN! | ||
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
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Wizard
Poland5055 Posts
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MoNKeYSpanKeR
United States2869 Posts
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MyCrow
Korea (South)248 Posts
Free Savior Ra Canata | ||
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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
haha [진호]sick life says: dan [진호]sick life says: na do Dan says: --;? [진호]sick life says: bet Dan says: hahahahahah [진호]sick life says: stork vs savior Dan says: 128noma Dan says: 3:1 he jo Dan says: 3:1 he jo [진호]sick life says: dspojgfvpojadfgoj [진호]sick life says: xcvbojapojdfpojcxvjad [진호]sick life says: ffuck [진호]sick life says: haha [진호]sick life says: jcxvbpadsf Dan says: call? Dan says: [진호]sick life says: 2.5:1 [진호]sick life says: 40/100 Dan says: 콜 [진호]sick life says: call? [진호]sick life says: ㅋㅋㅋㅋ [진호]sick life says: ㅇㅋ [진호]sick life says: ok Dan says: 40//100 [진호]sick life says: ok [진호]sick life says: hm [진호]sick life says: suck out no [진호]sick life says: savior gogo` Dan says: suck out plz Dan says: 1 time | ||
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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Last Romantic
United States20661 Posts
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Dyllyn
Singapore670 Posts
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alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
cool-.- tell him alffla from TL loves him and i made that cheerful | ||
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puLs.ReADy
Bulgaria1301 Posts
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Ash
Malaysia1978 Posts
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Storchen
Sweden4385 Posts
[진호]sick life says: dspojgfvpojadfgoj [진호]sick life says: xcvbojapojdfpojcxvjad And why is yellow typing nonsense? :O | ||
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zXk3
Mexico1178 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
july at 1. memory at 7 | ||
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GoogleIt
392 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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GoogleIt
392 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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One Page Memory
Bulgaria2145 Posts
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Elsi
United Kingdom8173 Posts
2 on gas keke!allin soon by memory :> | ||
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
But well deserved victory for Mania. | ||
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
lol july.. | ||
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GoogleIt
392 Posts
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Storchen
Sweden4385 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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GoogleIt
392 Posts
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Elsi
United Kingdom8173 Posts
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PoP
France15446 Posts
If you don't scout this it's auto-GG. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
People still alive in bracket contest (these guys picked Mania): PePe QuiCoSE TaG]SiG Didn't Pick Mania: [7x]Rain 58mm 6AP6APblCKA 8players Aepplet affy a-game ahole-surprise alfrex Alventenie amorpheus anch Anihc ArC_man Arctor asel Axidboy azndsh Azrael Blackheart Barbarne Beamo blagoonga123 blazin777 Blind Bop4yH Byyk calvinL Camlito champiro ChessWhiz Chill Chosi cravy CubEdIn cujo2k cz d0da Daeno DancerS_au DeadVessel decafchicken DemonicTEDDY Diggity dragoonkf Evilmonkey. f10esqftw Failsafe FakeSteve falihai FalliNinLove Fear_Chaos fight_or_flight FirstBorn fOrTT FunFluffyBunny Gaetele gakkgakk GeneralStan GrandInquisitor griff_krieg GTR-2-Go HonestTea Hot_Bid humblegar Hydrolisko Idra iknowlemon il0seonpurpose ilbh Illuminati_us IrishJDG ItchReliever J_J777 JesusCruxRH Jetamania jhNz joeki Jonoman92 Jyvblamo Kacas kawoq KimHyung koryano321 Kwark Last Romantic Last.Midnight Live2Win loafmaster Locked LonelyMargarita Luddite Lyra.Buryat Lyra.Defiler ManaBlue marklarmarklar3 MaTRiX[SiN] Medar Moffman88 Monokeros mrscheng MTF MyCrow Myrmidon Neoillusions New104 niteReloaded no_re obloquy olivier -orb- pachi PAL-18 pAq.Rondo Phleiart plaszczka Plexa Plovez PoP Powerpill Presony-Boy Pseudo_Utopia quasi -QS- Ryan307 semioldguy Seraphim Sewi skindzer SoMuchBetter SonuvBob sperY spetial SpicyChicken stimozi Storchen tacolvskh tankdr0p TehKris thedeadhaji to miss the mark trollbone Tyrio VenetianSnares ViRii Vomified vorpaL wAVEland Waves Wonders workshed x89titan xenozza yubee ZBiR Zeego Zellous ZergZergling ZergZoul | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
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trollbone
France1905 Posts
july i hate u  | ||
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
and 5000000 picked july.. rofl if its mind vs mania ill shoot myself | ||
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NovaTheFeared
United States7222 Posts
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
I'm going to try typing it out with my korean IME thing. ㅣㄴㅍㅊ으ㅏㅗㅍㅊㅇㅇㅣㅏㅡㅊㅇ ㄱㅔㅗㅜㅊㅇㅇㅍㅊ이ㅏㅍㅊ엑ㅗㅇㅇㅣ So no, it's just nonsense. | ||
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
On October 18 2007 18:50 The Storyteller wrote: Didn't watch that game, but sounds like very intelligent cheese. Did you see fbh vs savior game 5? its like that only mania 2 raxed proxi, not 1. | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
that bracket contest is beautiful | ||
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
JULYY JULY JUJLY *sob* | ||
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Brutalisk
794 Posts
T so lame. And even Savior, who always sends his lings around the map, can't scout every spot on the map in time. Big luck element. | ||
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
On October 18 2007 18:51 Camlito wrote: if its mind vs mania ill shoot myself bye camlito. | ||
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Highways
Australia6103 Posts
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PoP
France15446 Posts
On October 18 2007 18:52 Camlito wrote: Did you see fbh vs savior game 5? its like that only mania 2 raxed proxi, not 1. fbh did proxy 2 rax as well | ||
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
oh my bad, then it was just the same. Bye Camlito goodbye cruel world... just hope free wins. | ||
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
On October 18 2007 18:53 Brutalisk wrote: Games like that are exactly the reason why I wouldn't bother playing SC on a pro level at all. T so lame. And even Savior, who always sends his lings around the map, can't scout every spot on the map in time. Big luck element. Well, that goes for everything in life, doesn't it? Big luck element. Might get knocked down by a drunk driver even if you're innocent. | ||
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
lomo T at 8 free P at 7 | ||
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Naib
Hungary4843 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
marine finished at EXACT right time and scv/rine block probe scout | ||
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
reaver out | ||
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
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Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
wheres your control, free | ||
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Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
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MuShu
United States3223 Posts
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Elsi
United Kingdom8173 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
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Red_Dragon
Croatia2862 Posts
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HaiVan
Bulgaria1698 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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Elsi
United Kingdom8173 Posts
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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Red_Dragon
Croatia2862 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
free at 7 lomo at 1 | ||
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
so hard compared to other msl's | ||
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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NovaTheFeared
United States7222 Posts
2nd rax proxied. Free should be scouting for hidden buildings after last game. | ||
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
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Jonteman
Sweden644 Posts
you dont belong! | ||
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strongwind
United States862 Posts
... *changes pants* too close for comfort | ||
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GoogleIt
392 Posts
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r0ar
Australia24 Posts
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Red_Dragon
Croatia2862 Posts
FREE fighting! edit: that was very hard to defend against to be honest. Great job Free! | ||
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Elsi
United Kingdom8173 Posts
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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HaiVan
Bulgaria1698 Posts
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
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milkshakespeare
Austria19 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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iori_LT
Lithuania675 Posts
funny games nevertheless cheese ftw  | ||
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Elsi
United Kingdom8173 Posts
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iori_LT
Lithuania675 Posts
On October 18 2007 19:23 pangshai wrote: imo lomo had a chance after he killed many probes + the 2-3 zealots, but lost most of his marines. he should've just retreated his scvs back to his main and bunkered his ramp. he had like 10 left after the battle. completely agree with you! he could have taken the game.. | ||
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FunFluffyBunny
Sweden1696 Posts
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
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PoP
France15446 Posts
On October 18 2007 19:24 red.venom wrote: Are the streams horrible for anyone else? I havent had shit lag like this in sooooo long Same (GomTV). Yaoyuan is fine though. | ||
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iori_LT
Lithuania675 Posts
On October 18 2007 19:24 FunFluffyBunny wrote: Did it just say that the next match would be a PvP, or did my eyes decieve me? well we saw savior playing terran, so who knows :D | ||
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
On October 18 2007 19:24 FunFluffyBunny wrote: Did it just say that the next match would be a PvP, or did my eyes decieve me? next match is ZvP. savior vs stork, on blue storm. EDIT: bluestorm, not ungoro | ||
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Lhyviathan
Australia975 Posts
On October 18 2007 19:24 FunFluffyBunny wrote: Did it just say that the next match would be a PvP, or did my eyes decieve me? sAviOr as a Protoss? Stork certainly hopes so.  | ||
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
Mind linking me to that stream? Yaoyuan takes ages to load(Always has tho its not just tonight) | ||
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PoP
France15446 Posts
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
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LonelyMargarita
1845 Posts
On October 18 2007 19:24 FunFluffyBunny wrote: Did it just say that the next match would be a PvP, or did my eyes decieve me? It did say PvP. It also showed sAviOr asleep, so maybe they switched his race without telling him. | ||
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
stork at 1 savior at 7 | ||
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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r0ar
Australia24 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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NovaTheFeared
United States7222 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
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PoP
France15446 Posts
On October 18 2007 19:42 Camlito wrote: mmm so no cheese this game but savior is 9 pooling.. does that count? (He 12 (or 11) pooled from what I saw.) | ||
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
oh so cheese free but saviors still crazy.. | ||
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Elsi
United Kingdom8173 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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GoogleIt
392 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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Naib
Hungary4843 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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OctoPuSs
Canada5279 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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MuShu
United States3223 Posts
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
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saranghaeCY-
United States446 Posts
thats why he lost 2nd expo so easily | ||
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Elsi
United Kingdom8173 Posts
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GoogleIt
392 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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Elsi
United Kingdom8173 Posts
Savior just won't die lol | ||
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HaiVan
Bulgaria1698 Posts
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
It's almost an anti-climax. He denied me the extacy of seeing 15 of Savior's hydras being stormed to pulp. Damn. | ||
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Naib
Hungary4843 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
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Naib
Hungary4843 Posts
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Catyoul
France2377 Posts
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
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ssj100
Afghanistan320 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
savior at 1 stork at 2. savior's scouting overlord going to find him immediately. | ||
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Red_Dragon
Croatia2862 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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puLs.ReADy
Bulgaria1301 Posts
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ssj100
Afghanistan320 Posts
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NovaTheFeared
United States7222 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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triangle
United States3803 Posts
Come on ZERG! | ||
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Elsi
United Kingdom8173 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:00 NovaTheFeared wrote: If Stork's zeal micro is as good as it was at WCG he will take this game and the series from Savior O_O sAviOr's ling micro > non koreans | ||
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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betaben
681 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
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NovaTheFeared
United States7222 Posts
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yubee
United States3826 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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MuShu
United States3223 Posts
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
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betaben
681 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
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r0ar
Australia24 Posts
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
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puLs.ReADy
Bulgaria1301 Posts
BEST ZERG EVER ! | ||
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Elsi
United Kingdom8173 Posts
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AyOnY
Pitcairn1026 Posts
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FaCE_1
Canada6172 Posts
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Naib
Hungary4843 Posts
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HaiVan
Bulgaria1698 Posts
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Ido
Germany661 Posts
GREAT GREAT GREAT! | ||
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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Naib
Hungary4843 Posts
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Monsen
Germany2548 Posts
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
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Naib
Hungary4843 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:08 pangshai wrote: stork looks disappointed. savior played a very nice game. reacting perfectly to stork's build with the sunken and then lings to counter. stork taken out savior's spire with a guerrilla attack with his 5 zealots before the mutas spawned though. Lol? The spire wasn't even close to falling down. He just tried and failed, miserably. | ||
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Elsi
United Kingdom8173 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:08 Naib wrote: Lol? The spire wasn't even close to falling down. He just tried and failed, miserably. i meant while it was still spawning. those 5 zealots were just sitting around on the ramp doing nothing. | ||
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Instigata
United States546 Posts
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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
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Naib
Hungary4843 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:10 pangshai wrote: i meant while it was still spawning. those 5 zealots were just sitting around on the ramp doing nothing. Oh I see. But your post doesn't state that, thought you were watching some other game | ||
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DragoonPK
3259 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:11 Naib wrote: Oh I see. But your post doesn't state that, thought you were watching some other game somehow the word "could've" got deleted from my post. editted it back in though. | ||
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GoogleIt
392 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
ra at 9 forgg at 3 | ||
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GoogleIt
392 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
and robot fac now | ||
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GoogleIt
392 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:23 GoogleIt wrote: 3rd proxy of the day 4th but its nal ra so its just standard | ||
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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GoogleIt
392 Posts
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
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Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
our protoss heroes free barely squeezes out a win after some horrendous control in game 1 stork busts to savior yet again. and rA self-donkey punched vs forGG T.T | ||
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PoP
France15446 Posts
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Monsen
Germany2548 Posts
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Elsi
United Kingdom8173 Posts
nice macro :> | ||
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:29 BluzMan wrote: Wtf, I mean, who unloads his reaver on tanks when there are 3(!!!) that can shoot it? wasn't there also a gol? | ||
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
ra at 7 forgg at 1. | ||
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mastakilla[Xp]
Germany93 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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Red_Dragon
Croatia2862 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
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GoogleIt
392 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
Ironically, Ra went fast nexus. GG? EDIT: omfg, again? I remember TT saying "pp" in the exactly same scenario. | ||
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HaiVan
Bulgaria1698 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:35 GoogleIt wrote: hes so gonna get disqualified. that bug is not allowed what bug is that? i only know of the waypoint with vespene gesyer bug. i didn't know there was a mineral/return cargo bug. | ||
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Jetamania
Korea (South)78 Posts
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Passenger
Korea (South)387 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
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Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
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GoogleIt
392 Posts
kinda feel bad for ForGG . that was gonna work | ||
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PePe QuiCoSE
Argentina1204 Posts
damn, this crazy kids... | ||
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AyOnY
Pitcairn1026 Posts
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beyondie
Niger112 Posts
 | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
you idiot ForGG | ||
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Jalal
22 Posts
hm | ||
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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GoogleIt
392 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:39 AyOnY wrote: ROFL he got disqualified? LMFAO why would anyone be that dumb to use a bug like that, unless he didnt know of it? ForGG told the ref that he didnt know but the rules are rules. | ||
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puLs.ReADy
Bulgaria1301 Posts
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saranghaeCY-
United States446 Posts
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Monsen
Germany2548 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
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samachking
Bahrain4949 Posts
Genuis Great one terran out,Go ra go, we have enough terrans, i dont want this to be a TvT final, like the last MSL where it was a PvP,well go Hwasin vs Savior Finals | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
blame the lecaf coaches for not telling their players then don't feel bad for him, he used a bug and got disqualified, his fault | ||
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AyOnY
Pitcairn1026 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:39 GoogleIt wrote: ForGG told the ref that he didnt know but the rules are rules. Man ForGG must be so pissed, he had the game too >.< . | ||
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Taiche
France1963 Posts
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Jonteman
Sweden644 Posts
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:39 pangshai wrote: they showed it on replay. it looked quite clean. just spamming stop and return cargo. that isn't clean... that bug is banned. | ||
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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Puosu
6985 Posts
Bleh.. | ||
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
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puLs.ReADy
Bulgaria1301 Posts
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Catyoul
France2377 Posts
The sad thing is it had been done in a game before, on Blitz. I don't remember the players nor the ruling at the time. Anyone can ? | ||
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amorpheus
Bulgaria2144 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:39 Hot_Bid wrote: why did he do the bug he was about to win you idiot ForGG Well he wasn't sure what Nal_ra's build was before entering his main, was he? | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
EDIT: Catyoul, I can't remember the terran, but the toss was TT. Referees decided for the game to proceed, and TT lost miserably, clearly mismicroing due to frustration. The referees have improved. ForGG, you're a stupid idiot, you had that game in your hands. | ||
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Red_Dragon
Croatia2862 Posts
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:41 Puosu wrote: I was under the impression that you can use the way of clicking on enemys minerals if you've already seen them and the CC float one wasn't.. Bleh.. Only fOrGG hadn't seen Nal_rA's minerals yet. So he wouldn;t have been able to do that to get through. | ||
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samachking
Bahrain4949 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:41 The Storyteller wrote: All this could be avoided by making players go for a briefing, and then signing a document that lays out exactly what is allowed and what is not. Sure thats one way to do it,or put it on the contract becoming a progamer. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:42 amorpheus wrote: Well he wasn't sure what Nal_ra's build was before entering his main, was he? when you go 3 rax before gas in tvp i don't think it depends much on what you scout ForGG was marine rushing regardless, he didn't need to scout the 14nex he was gambling anyway | ||
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yubee
United States3826 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:41 Catyoul wrote: go.go vs ever)TT, they ruled it okay and continued the game and TT lost. he got so mad he threw off his headphones and stormed out before the camera even panned to himBleh. The sad thing is it had been done in a game before, on Blitz. I don't remember the players nor the ruling at the time. Anyone can ? | ||
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
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Passenger
Korea (South)387 Posts
By the Rule of KeSPA, ForGG was disqualified. | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
Did he think he could get away with it or something? Or did he just do it without thinking as a reflex? Like a football player sometimes making hands instinctively? | ||
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Catyoul
France2377 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:41 Taiche wrote: Could anyone stop laughing for a sec and tell us what kind of bug happened, please ? Nal_rA had blocked his ramp with 2 probes and ForGG went through the blockade anyway. You can do that pretty easily actually, you need to have gathered minerals, then press "return cargo" and spam move a bit and you'll go through other units. | ||
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Aepplet
Sweden2908 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:41 Taiche wrote: Could anyone stop laughing for a sec and tell us what kind of bug happened, please ? forgg mines a chunk of mineral from ra's nat. proceeds onto ra's ramp with the scv that's holding mineral. ra's ramp is blocked by 2 probe. but he manages to get up the ramp. they showed FP of forgg doing it. but my stream buffered so i didn't catch it fully. what i thought it looked like was, spamming move on the probe, then stop, then return cargo, so that the scv pushed the probe away. then he got through the gap. but there was a bit of the return-cargo "gliding" through the probe. | ||
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Jetamania
Korea (South)78 Posts
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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:40 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: NICE ONE FORGG | ||
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:41 Catyoul wrote: Bleh. The sad thing is it had been done in a game before, on Blitz. I don't remember the players nor the ruling at the time. Anyone can ? go.go used the bug against TT during the survivor league for the previous MSL. At the time the bug was not banned and go.go ended up winning the game. Afterward Kespa banned the return cargo bug to prevent future abuse. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
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Lhyviathan
Australia975 Posts
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Puosu
6985 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:43 semioldguy wrote: Only fOrGG hadn't seen Nal_rA's minerals yet. So he wouldn;t have been able to do that to get through. Ah yes.. stupid me !_! | ||
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Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
1) workers have stack mode and standard mode. as you can guess, workers are on stack mode when they are mining (they can stack on top of eachother and can pass through other units). in standard mode, workers have size and can't pass through other units as normal 2) a long long time ago, someone realized you could get workers to go onto stack without having vision of minerals. so, i could go outside someone's ramp (that's blocked w/ 2 workers), i could spam the vespene gas geyser, and voila my worker would be on stack mode (don't worry about these details) and i could then pass over the 2 workers blocking the ramp and enter the base 3) KeSPA disallows this bug, as it is obviously bullshit to get a worker on stack mode to go WHEREVER it wants w/o having vision 4) Recently, go.go[GsP] (player on OGN SparkyZ) found that if your SCV was holding some money, you could walk up to the ramp, and hit "return cargo" then "stop" then "return cargo" etc etc, forcing the worker to go into stack mode and then out and then stack and then out etc etc which effectively forces the worker up the ramp, similar to #2. 5) Although go.go was NOT penalized at the time, KeSPA immediately made this a disallowed bug after the game 6) forGG was not informed and fucks himself over vs Nal_rA just now 7) ow god damnit i just stubbed my toe. holy fuck that hurts | ||
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Kaolla
China2999 Posts
ra lost cause he paused... well cant believe he didnt know >.< | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
Made my day. | ||
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:43 samachking wrote: Sure thats one way to do it,or put it on the contract becoming a progamer. You can't put it on the contract as these rules change all the time. But before a tournament, there should be a set of rules that apply. The players can be briefed on them and then given a hard copy which they sign on. If there is a change of rules halfway, another document can be signed. That way, nobody can use the excuse that he didn't know. | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
no way in hell forgg didnt know, the gogo thing was all over the place | ||
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Catyoul
France2377 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:46 Day[9] wrote: 4) Recently, go.go[GsP] (player on OGN SparkyZ) found that if your SCV was holding some money, you could walk up to the ramp, and hit "return cargo" then "stop" then "return cargo" etc etc, forcing the worker to go into stack mode and then out and then stack and then out etc etc which effectively forces the worker up the ramp, similar to #2. go.go isn't the inventor, it's been in micro tricks UMS maps for years. Sorry for your toe. | ||
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kjk
Malaysia100 Posts
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Puosu
6985 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:49 kjk wrote: how fast connection u guys have ? i watched using gom player with 1.5 megabits connection still lag Its not about the connection that much, but how far from Korea you live. I myself have 2mbit connection from Finland and its unwatchable. | ||
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:49 kjk wrote: how fast connection u guys have ? i watched using gom player with 1.5 megabits connection still lag you can try this link http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=57748 for reducing quality. it doesn't really help though. | ||
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saranghaeCY-
United States446 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:49 kjk wrote: how fast connection u guys have ? i watched using gom player with 1.5 megabits connection still lag use search function on how to lower quality, and also click the orange button instead of the red button , it has a lower quality | ||
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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Puosu
6985 Posts
Wonder why they changed.. | ||
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Jetamania
Korea (South)78 Posts
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saranghaeCY-
United States446 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:53 Jetamania wrote: There is no excuse for not knowing, contract or not. It's MSL, televised game. The very least the players could do is take 30 minutes out of there 10 hour practice schedule and read the rules. It's there duty to read the rules as long as MBC provides them in any way. | ||
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no.1
516 Posts
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:49 kjk wrote: how fast connection u guys have ? i watched using gom player with 1.5 megabits connection still lag Gom was just lagging like fuck tonight.. who knows why, try it some other time you should be fine in high or low res mode | ||
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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NovaTheFeared
United States7222 Posts
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
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Emlary
China3334 Posts
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Taiche
France1963 Posts
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amorpheus
Bulgaria2144 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:55 NovaTheFeared wrote: That's so funny. ForGG had an autowin situation 3 rax vs. 1 gate nex and gives it up by using a banned bug and DQs himself. Obviously God decided that Ra must win even though logic says the opposite | ||
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Aepplet
Sweden2908 Posts
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ssj100
Afghanistan320 Posts
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stalife
Canada1222 Posts
i'm pretty disgusted by lecaf team's play today.. lomo tryin to gay free with proxy fact + 8 rax cheese rush, and forgg tryin to gay ra with 3 rax -_- and probably scv's too | ||
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FaCE_1
Canada6172 Posts
On October 18 2007 21:01 Aepplet wrote: xellos for 0/5 exactly my felling | ||
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Puosu
6985 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:58 Emlary wrote: i'm sorry but i wanna know which song is the opening bgm? i did search old thread which said it was Papa Roach's To Be Love, but after downloading i found it wasn't. It was Papa Roach's To Be Loved, but it has changed now for some reason. | ||
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GoogleIt
392 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
"SKT (korean writing) T1 Meaning terran 1 O_O | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
game 3 soon | ||
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Emlary
China3334 Posts
On October 18 2007 21:14 Puosu wrote: It was Papa Roach's To Be Loved, but it has changed now for some reason. yep, i know. i had the former version of S3 opening. so how about the new bgm? | ||
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
pretty nice game actually. | ||
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Aepplet
Sweden2908 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
On October 18 2007 21:23 Aepplet wrote: yes, he did it! 0/5, hahahaha is that including the 3rd game if it gets to that? because if it does its 1:1 and canata can win if not then ill just stfu | ||
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
On October 18 2007 20:52 Puosu wrote: I really hate this new song in the GomTV intro, the Papa Roach one fitted much better. Wonder why they changed.. Probably because someone finally realized the word "fuck" was a part of the intro, so they had to change songs because of it. | ||
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
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Puosu
6985 Posts
On October 18 2007 21:24 Camlito wrote: is that including the 3rd game if it gets to that? because if it does its 1:1 and canata can win if not then ill just stfu Liquibet is just for the 2nd game though.. And no Emlary, I have no idea what the new song is called :/ On October 18 2007 21:25 semioldguy wrote: Probably because someone finally realized the word "fuck" was a part of the intro, so they had to change songs because of it. oo! I haven't even realized that myself, but yes, that could be the reason. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
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Sadness
Brazil552 Posts
1/5 and I guess I went some positions up probably many many 0/5 here | ||
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
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Jalal
22 Posts
On October 18 2007 21:35 Sadness wrote: zomg 1/5 and I guess I went some positions up probably many many 0/5 here 4/5 Damn Canata for losing | ||
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kjk
Malaysia100 Posts
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bine
United States2352 Posts
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pachi
Melbourne5338 Posts
On October 18 2007 21:38 bine wrote: 2/5 and i also managed to break top10 for mbc only | ||
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
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GoogleIt
392 Posts
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
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humblegar
Norway883 Posts
On October 18 2007 21:40 The Storyteller wrote: Wow... Xellos playing really well! new docu gogogo! | ||
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
xellos to round of 8!!!!!!! | ||
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NovaTheFeared
United States7222 Posts
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
BOOYA | ||
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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amorpheus
Bulgaria2144 Posts
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kjk
Malaysia100 Posts
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
On October 18 2007 21:40 GoogleIt wrote: if xellos advances, that 3 CJ players at ro8 Don't jump the gun just yet... Kwanro could make it to and then half of the round of eight could be CJ... and then its possible for all four to make the final four. Though I don't know how likely that is. | ||
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
and savior looked like he had a tissue box... probably for his opponents | ||
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
Man, he looks happy, and his fans are going nuts. | ||
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Puosu
6985 Posts
Is XellOs's slump finally ending? To Be Continued.. | ||
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GoogleIt
392 Posts
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pum
Sweden306 Posts
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
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LonelyMargarita
1845 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6343/fullbracketro8asmvi9.jpg) | ||
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frs
Finland60 Posts
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iaretehnoob
Sweden741 Posts
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FaCE_1
Canada6172 Posts
Savior can't lose vs Free :o | ||
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GoogleIt
392 Posts
On October 18 2007 21:52 FaCE_1 wrote: Ra will take Xellos Savior can't lose vs Free :o i second that | ||
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b(O.o)p
699 Posts
! ...damn you free..... | ||
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TomciO
Poland414 Posts
. | ||
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goldenkrnboi
United States3104 Posts
0/5 in liquibet... D: glad to see savior got through though. | ||
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b(O.o)p
699 Posts
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himurakenshin
Canada1845 Posts
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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iaretehnoob
Sweden741 Posts
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TaDa1.
655 Posts
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kigga
United States200 Posts
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skindzer
Chile5114 Posts
![[image loading]](http://image.fighterforum.com/showImage.asp?realFile=FFNEWS20070127202438001.JPG) | ||
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Thegreatbeyond
United States287 Posts
I don't understand about the bug thing, if its part of the game then why should it be banned? This is almost as saying we should ban terran floating land to get units pass by a mineral wall on monty hall. Seriously its part of the game, deosn't matter if its too imba, using this logic we should get rid of the defiler because swarm is imba lol. | ||
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AyOnY
Pitcairn1026 Posts
On October 18 2007 23:07 Thegreatbeyond wrote: ForGG vs Ra I don't understand, if its part of the game then why should it be banned? This is almost as saying we should ban terran floating land to get units pass by a mineral wall on monty hall. Seriously its part of the game, deosn't matter if its too imba, using this logic we should get rid of the defiler because swarm is imba lol. You sir, are an idiot. Swarm is NOT imba. | ||
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Ash
Malaysia1978 Posts
On October 18 2007 23:07 Thegreatbeyond wrote: ForGG vs Ra I don't understand about the bug thing, if its part of the game then why should it be banned? This is almost as saying we should ban terran floating land to get units pass by a mineral wall on monty hall. Seriously its part of the game, deosn't matter if its too imba, using this logic we should get rid of the defiler because swarm is imba lol. rofl this is the dumbest post i've ever seen in tl.net. If you fail to understand why it's forbidden then you shouldn't play starcraft at all | ||
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Hyperionnn
Turkey4968 Posts
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poilord
Germany3252 Posts
Any games worth watching today? | ||
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Kacas
Brazil3143 Posts
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Honk2000
Germany698 Posts
don't start this thread, if you don't intend to update the results...i fucking hate that. | ||
jkillashark
United States5262 Posts
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Storchen
Sweden4385 Posts
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SonuvBob
Aiur21549 Posts
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azndsh
United States4447 Posts
why the hell did I vote against Mania? =( | ||
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jkillashark
United States5262 Posts
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Kacas
Brazil3143 Posts
your fault yay \o/ and bracklets contest LOL | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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myrmidon2537
Philippines2188 Posts
On October 18 2007 23:43 SonuvBob wrote: ForGGot about go.go? This should be on the next newspaper headline XD | ||
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ATeddyBear
Canada2843 Posts
Current Voting Streak 6 Wrong votes in a row | ||
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Q(-_-Q)
United States348 Posts
On October 18 2007 23:48 azndsh wrote: CJ is 3/3 so far why the hell did I vote against Mania? =( i think he has been the surprise so far. his 2nd game was immuculate i was sad for stork but its his own fault rushing savior -_- | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
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Wizard
Poland5055 Posts
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ATeddyBear
Canada2843 Posts
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Breavman
Sweden598 Posts
On October 19 2007 02:43 Wizard wrote: great results, what I wanted minus July Same here, but maybe Savior is the new July? These games, he seemed to rely on his micro which was awesome in both games. But he plays really risky and the proxy hatch build just didn't make sense to me. | ||
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Last Romantic
United States20661 Posts
On October 19 2007 02:05 SuperJongMan wrote: Ra always wins in the coolest ways. Go Ra. Yes, Dreamer can now telepath-hack into enemy brain to make them DQ themselves. rA win MSL ez | ||
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bahhh
United States888 Posts
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FirstBorn
Romania3955 Posts
On October 19 2007 03:56 bahhh wrote: i've loss count on how many times ra lucked out in the msl ahahahaha. so true, ra's luck seems to never run off. But he'll probably fuck up in a game everyone expects him to win. It happens every time. | ||
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amorpheus
Bulgaria2144 Posts
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
On October 18 2007 21:44 Camlito wrote: lol cj team was contemplating ownage and savior looked like he had a tissue box... probably for his opponents The tissues are for Xellos' DDR. | ||
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HonkHonkBeep
China353 Posts
On October 18 2007 23:07 Thegreatbeyond wrote: ForGG vs Ra I don't understand about the bug thing, if its part of the game then why should it be banned? This is almost as saying we should ban terran floating land to get units pass by a mineral wall on monty hall. Seriously its part of the game, deosn't matter if its too imba, using this logic we should get rid of the defiler because swarm is imba lol. Doesn't matter if it's part of the game, it matters what the rules are. | ||
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skindzer
Chile5114 Posts
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
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Pyrthas
United States3196 Posts
On October 18 2007 21:37 Camlito wrote: Just want to point out that it says this because T1 is the team name (like Hero and Khan for MBC and Samsung).lol canatas thing sais SKT (korean writing) T1 again Also, says. | ||
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Thegreatbeyond
United States287 Posts
On October 18 2007 23:18 Ash wrote: rofl this is the dumbest post i've ever seen in tl.net. If you fail to understand why it's forbidden then you shouldn't play starcraft at all First of all you and the person above you don't have to insult me, I understand why its forbidden as because if your trying a risky strategy and its discovered then its GG, and plenty of other stuff. However its part of the game. I'm only trying point out that if you try to stop that, then why don't we stop players from getting past mineral walls or better yet get rid of defilers as I already pointed out? I believe there was a defiler imba thread, and defilers in some cases gave free wins in particular battles. | ||
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Aepplet
Sweden2908 Posts
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
On October 19 2007 06:31 Thegreatbeyond wrote: First of all you and the person above you don't have to insult me, I understand why its forbidden as because if your trying a risky strategy and its discovered then its GG, and plenty of other stuff. However its part of the game. I'm only trying point out that if you try to stop that, then why don't we stop players from getting past mineral walls or better yet get rid of defilers as I already pointed out? I believe there was a defiler imba thread, and defilers in some cases gave free wins in particular battles. Hatchery bug is also part of the game, but that doesn't mean it should be allowed. Edit: 1/5, thanks a bunch Stork. | ||
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cravy
United States525 Posts
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Highways
Australia6103 Posts
0/5 | ||
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Aurious
Canada1772 Posts
On October 19 2007 07:22 Highways wrote: fucking hell 0/5 same >_< | ||
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jkillashark
United States5262 Posts
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alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
On October 19 2007 07:24 jkillashark wrote: IF XELLOS ABSTAINS FROM DDR HE WILL WIN MSL. that'll be insane fuck its like i dont know what happened to TL or smething when'd you lose your bold name jkilla?! -_- | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On October 18 2007 22:40 TaDa1. wrote: savior 1 hatch muta was crazy the best part was when the commentators realized what he was doing, and started saying "wun hatch laya! (one hatch lair)" in amazement. | ||
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ZidaneTribal
United States2800 Posts
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
"Free beats Lomo's cheese thnx to shield battery" "ForGGot about go.go?" And so on and so forth. | ||
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
On October 19 2007 07:58 ZidaneTribal wrote: is this stork's first win vs savior? erm didn't he win vs savior like 2 years ago? check tlpd | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On October 19 2007 06:31 Thegreatbeyond wrote: First of all you and the person above you don't have to insult me, I understand why its forbidden as because if your trying a risky strategy and its discovered then its GG, and plenty of other stuff. However its part of the game. I'm only trying point out that if you try to stop that, then why don't we stop players from getting past mineral walls or better yet get rid of defilers as I already pointed out? I believe there was a defiler imba thread, and defilers in some cases gave free wins in particular battles. lol you must be retarded. do you seriously not recognize the difference between a formally banned bug and normal function of a SC unit? ps defilers aren't imba. for evidence check out savior's latest proleague games | ||
Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On October 19 2007 08:04 Jyvblamo wrote: I can already see next week's MSL headlines: "Free beats Lomo's cheese thnx to shield battery" "ForGGot about go.go?" And so on and so forth. that free one made me laugh | ||
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crazie-penguin
United States1253 Posts
i don't get the free one ... | ||
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Last Romantic
United States20661 Posts
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On October 19 2007 06:31 Thegreatbeyond wrote: First of all you and the person above you don't have to insult me, I understand why its forbidden as because if your trying a risky strategy and its discovered then its GG, and plenty of other stuff. However its part of the game. I'm only trying point out that if you try to stop that, then why don't we stop players from getting past mineral walls or better yet get rid of defilers as I already pointed out? I believe there was a defiler imba thread, and defilers in some cases gave free wins in particular battles. Call me dumb if you want, but I sort of see this guy's point of view (although imo the examples he used are horrible). The reason this move is banned if I'm correct, is because it's an unfair way to get into the opponent's base. If the opponent blocks his ramp with his units successfully to prevent you from scouting, then you shouldn't be allowed in. But let's face it. He used a "bug" that's already allowed in every other aspect of the game. The "bug" that these guys are using is that when a unit is given the "mine" command or the "return cargo" command, they automatically become able to slide through units. By clicking that and hitting "stop" as soon as possible, they are able to make the worker become transparent, and then un-transparent within half a second, which makes them overlap the opponent's units and messes up their formation. But this concept is already being used in different situations. What exactly about this move is illegal? The fact that he is able to make his worker slide and then unslide to mess up unit formation? That's used all the time in worker defense. The fact that they use mine/cargo return to slide through units? That's used all the time when you're trying to keep your scouting peon alive. They're not using a new bug, they're using an old bug in a new way. So then WHAT makes this move illegal and to be banned? It seems the only reason is because it messes with the balance of the game. Let me give an example of a similar trick. Pylon jumping. Though not used often anymore, protoss users use to be able to hop over Terran's barracks/supply wall by sticking their probe close to the supply depot, building a pylon, and "hopping" the probe over. How is this much different from the other bug? Both are using a bug that is allowed in other aspects of the game, yet both are overcoming obstacles that should be overcome. If the only reason for banning the scv's cargo return bug is that "when the ramp is blocked, you shouldn't be allowed in" then the same should go for the pylon hop bug.... if a terran walled correctly, then the probe should not be allowed in. Another example is the vulture hop. We've seen BoxeR overcome a pylon/forge wall by mining real close to the pylons, and successfully "hopping" his vultures over to the otherside. This is again another example of a "bug" being used to overcome an obstacle that shouldn't have been overcome. Of course, I agree this new "bug" does make the game incredibly gay, and I prefer it to stay banned. But I just don't see any real justification as to why it should be banned. | ||
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SonuvBob
Aiur21549 Posts
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
He could not see through fog of war and Ra is putting units on his ramp for the sole purpose of denying scouting. If Forgg happened to go through the trouble of lifting an ebay or rax to see the nat minerals and then slides through.. Thats FINE. But the way he did it is simply taking advantage of a bug, why would anyone ever block their ramp with workers if this was allowed? Its like the drone slide that used to exist in the 1.08. Just because that happened to be IN the game doesnt mean it was something someone should use in gameplay as it was clearly a bug. "Oh nydus in my base that I couldnt see at all, its in the game.. gg" | ||
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Tyrio
United States3248 Posts
Free <3 | ||
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Wizard
Poland5055 Posts
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Purind
Canada3562 Posts
ForGG's build was awesome though, makes it seem like a 1 rax expo build. Very nicely done, sounds like something rA would do, and it totally had rA fooled. Nice strategy, owned by himself. On October 18 2007 21:52 FaCE_1 wrote: Ra will take Xellos Savior can't lose vs Free :o I haven't seen Free's PvZ much, but isn't it supposed to be the best PvZ on the planet? | ||
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
On October 19 2007 11:57 Purind wrote:I'm so glad he got disqualified!! go rA!!fOrGG's build was awesome though, makes it seem like a 1 rax expo build. Very nicely done, sounds like something rA would do, and it totally had rA fooled. Nice strategy, owned by himself.I haven't seen free's PvZ Much, but isn't it supposed to be the BeSt PvZ on the planet?Let me introduce you to a man by the name of Bisu... | ||
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Wizard
Poland5055 Posts
On October 19 2007 11:57 Purind wrote: I'm so glad he got disqualified!! go rA!! fOrGG's build was awesome though, makes it seem like a 1 rax expo build. Very nicely done, sounds like something rA would do, and it totally had rA fooled. Nice strategy, owned by himself. I haven't seen free's PvZ Much, but isn't it supposed to be the BeSt PvZ on the planet? one word: Bisu | ||
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wifeH
United States127 Posts
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Wizard
Poland5055 Posts
On October 19 2007 12:40 wifeH wrote: I just want to know: did Nal_rA request a rematch at all? who would want to? | ||
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hixhix
1156 Posts
On October 19 2007 12:40 wifeH wrote: I just want to know: did Nal_rA request a rematch at all? I dont think it matters at all. Rules are rules, forgg must be DQ-ed regardless of rA's opinion about it | ||
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ForAdun
Germany986 Posts
On October 19 2007 10:39 Live2Win wrote: Call me dumb if you want, but I sort of see this guy's point of view (although imo the examples he used are horrible). The reason this move is banned if I'm correct, is because it's an unfair way to get into the opponent's base. If the opponent blocks his ramp with his units successfully to prevent you from scouting, then you shouldn't be allowed in. But let's face it. He used a "bug" that's already allowed in every other aspect of the game. The "bug" that these guys are using is that when a unit is given the "mine" command or the "return cargo" command, they automatically become able to slide through units. By clicking that and hitting "stop" as soon as possible, they are able to make the worker become transparent, and then un-transparent within half a second, which makes them overlap the opponent's units and messes up their formation. But this concept is already being used in different situations. What exactly about this move is illegal? The fact that he is able to make his worker slide and then unslide to mess up unit formation? That's used all the time in worker defense. The fact that they use mine/cargo return to slide through units? That's used all the time when you're trying to keep your scouting peon alive. They're not using a new bug, they're using an old bug in a new way. So then WHAT makes this move illegal and to be banned? It seems the only reason is because it messes with the balance of the game. Let me give an example of a similar trick. Pylon jumping. Though not used often anymore, protoss users use to be able to hop over Terran's barracks/supply wall by sticking their probe close to the supply depot, building a pylon, and "hopping" the probe over. How is this much different from the other bug? Both are using a bug that is allowed in other aspects of the game, yet both are overcoming obstacles that should be overcome. If the only reason for banning the scv's cargo return bug is that "when the ramp is blocked, you shouldn't be allowed in" then the same should go for the pylon hop bug.... if a terran walled correctly, then the probe should not be allowed in. Another example is the vulture hop. We've seen BoxeR overcome a pylon/forge wall by mining real close to the pylons, and successfully "hopping" his vultures over to the otherside. This is again another example of a "bug" being used to overcome an obstacle that shouldn't have been overcome. Of course, I agree this new "bug" does make the game incredibly gay, and I prefer it to stay banned. But I just don't see any real justification as to why it should be banned. It's the relation that justifies it. An SCV has easier times to slide through any kind of worker because it can take up to 60 damage. That SCV from ForGG was even hit by a Zealot afterwards but it was still alive. Probes or Drones die rather quick compared to SCV's so there's more room for error as a Terran player which causes a race-favoring imbalance using the bug. You compare it to the Barrack jump where you can pull units through minerals/buildings if you land another building on them, e.g. a Barrack. This is a risky move and can actually make the situation worse, imagine these units running into 3 lurkers that the Zerg prepared because of that Barrack jump. It is actually do-or-die. If i remember correctly it has made the Terran player lose in some televised games. Then you take Pylon jump as an example. Pylons cost 100 minerals to build and 25 minerals to cancel, same for Supply Depots. Besides that this move also involves some risk so it is justified. Vulture jump is another example like that, it is risky. If you don't manage to pull through your Vulture(s) using ~5-10 Spider Mines you are at a small tactical disadvantage since you cannot defend your bases or other areas of the map with Mines. In the worst case you run straight into 6 Dragoons. Summing up: move 1 is risky, move 3 and 4 are cost-efficient and risky but move 1 doesn't cost anything at all, does not involve any risk and slightly favors Terran. An example from me would be the standard slide to scout the opponent's base. Just before your first scouting worker dies you send another one by right-clicking your opponent's minerals. Now the situation is clear and if your opponent spots that scouting worker early with his own scouting units it is more or less doomed. 6 Zerglings will easily stop it, so does 1 Dragoon with good control and in TvT it is already a disadvantage to sacrifice 2 scouting workers instead of just 1 because the matchup is balanced in all ways, so even if the SCV comes past 2 Marines it is a noticable loss in gathering speed, but if there are already 3 Marines waiting (up to 4 Marines is common) they will kill the new scouting worker in time. All in all, a risky (or maybe even stupid) and "cost-efficient" move to pull off which makes it legal. | ||
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SonuvBob
Aiur21549 Posts
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greatmeh
Canada1964 Posts
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SonuvBob
Aiur21549 Posts
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wifeH
United States127 Posts
rA please prove you can go further than this "luck"! | ||
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wifeH
United States127 Posts
a man of man <3 | ||
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cravy
United States525 Posts
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
That's a very vague concept to set standards on what makes bugs legal and illegal. Allowing certain bugs because of their cost-efficiency requires extreme analysis and discussion between the professional players, coaches and eSports officials. Allowing one bug because it's "risky if it fails" while banning another because it "changes the balance and has no risk" will raise hundreds of debates everytime a similar bug comes up. What sets the standard? Where do you draw the line between cost-efficiency and balance? No, a better way to determine the legality of a bug would be HOW it's being used, and if that certain "trick" involves any illegal action. Most of the bugs that are banned right now are not banned because they make the game imbalanced.... of course, I'm sure that does play some role, but their "justified" reasoning is because the method of execution that's used to execute the bugs are ruled to be illegal. A few examples: The Drone floating bug. I'm not even sure if it's possible in today's patches, but it was banned for two reasons. Obviously the first reason is the insane imbalanced advantage it would give the zerg... but the justified reason would be because it involves using a weird gas+shift combination, and makes the drone do something that it was not suppose to do. The worker stack bug. I'm talking about the one including shift+gas trick and making your workers stack while attacking. This, again, includes some gas trick and makes the workers do something that they're not suppose to do. The zerg burrow/stack bug. This is the bug where you can stack a bunch of hydras or zerglings and make them act like 1 unit. Again, a bug that includes some weird combination of keys, and results in a situation that is clearly not meant to happen. These are all bugs that obviously change the balance of the game drastically. But they all have one thing in common: they involve a combination of tricks that were never meant to be used. But this bug is different. It's using all concepts that are legal in the game. It's not using some shift+gas or burrow or anything weird like that. It's just using the old fasioned worker drill trick. The unit only needs to hold a cargo, and goes up to the unit blocking it's way, you give it the return cargo command, the worker turns around (and I guess the corner of the unit overlaps the unit in front of it), you hit stop so that the corner that was overlapped becomes solid, and breaks up the formation.... these are all moves that are not unorthodox or illegal. It's just a different approach to an already used bug. In fact, I'm not even sure if it should be qualified as a bug! | ||
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IaniAniaN
Canada555 Posts
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ForAdun
Germany986 Posts
On October 19 2007 16:13 Live2Win wrote: @ ForAdun That's a very vague concept to set standards on what makes bugs legal and illegal. Allowing certain bugs because of their cost-efficiency requires extreme analysis and discussion between the professional players, coaches and eSports officials. Allowing one bug because it's "risky if it fails" while banning another because it "changes the balance and has no risk" will raise hundreds of debates everytime a similar bug comes up. What sets the standard? Where do you draw the line between cost-efficiency and balance? No, a better way to determine the legality of a bug would be HOW it's being used, and if that certain "trick" involves any illegal action. Most of the bugs that are banned right now are not banned because they make the game imbalanced.... of course, I'm sure that does play some role, but their "justified" reasoning is because the method of execution that's used to execute the bugs are ruled to be illegal. A few examples: The Drone floating bug. I'm not even sure if it's possible in today's patches, but it was banned for two reasons. Obviously the first reason is the insane imbalanced advantage it would give the zerg... but the justified reason would be because it involves using a weird gas+shift combination, and makes the drone do something that it was not suppose to do. The worker stack bug. I'm talking about the one including shift+gas trick and making your workers stack while attacking. This, again, includes some gas trick and makes the workers do something that they're not suppose to do. The zerg burrow/stack bug. This is the bug where you can stack a bunch of hydras or zerglings and make them act like 1 unit. Again, a bug that includes some weird combination of keys, and results in a situation that is clearly not meant to happen. These are all bugs that obviously change the balance of the game drastically. But they all have one thing in common: they involve a combination of tricks that were never meant to be used. But this bug is different. It's using all concepts that are legal in the game. It's not using some shift+gas or burrow or anything weird like that. It's just using the old fasioned worker drill trick. The unit only needs to hold a cargo, and goes up to the unit blocking it's way, you give it the return cargo command, the worker turns around (and I guess the corner of the unit overlaps the unit in front of it), you hit stop so that the corner that was overlapped becomes solid, and breaks up the formation.... these are all moves that are not unorthodox or illegal. It's just a different approach to an already used bug. In fact, I'm not even sure if it should be qualified as a bug! I can relate your mentioned bugs, too. You did that already to the Drone floating bug saying that it gives an "insanely imbalanced advantage" to Zerg. This is why it was banned. The worker stack bug. I know that one, it can be used to rush in with all your workers and kick the main nexus very quickly. Using SCV's the rush cannot fail afaik so it is imbalanced. Also it is easier to pull off (easier than if you have to clearly see the minerals with another scouting worker) since you only have to scout the minerals once, then you can choose any point in the game to send your worker scouting into the opponent base using only fog of war. The Zerg burrow/stack bug. I also know that one, it is another version of the worker stack bug only much stronger and stacking was different. It is impossible to beat stacked Zerglings with Zealots since you can't hold the choke. Canon defenses fail, too - the Zerglings don't have to surround the Canons and blocking Probes get kicked away in a splitsecond. ZvP would be totally imbalanced and probably Terrans would face big trouble, too. Not to mention ZvZ which would be a real mess, not what it is already. Yes that specific floating worker trick (from Nal_rA vs ForGG and go.go vs Iforgotwhohewas is different (there are some more, lacking creativity I just call it B). It is not only about how the trick works, it's about what it actually changes in the game itself. Progamers are aware of the fact that in the early game every single second and every 8 minerals count. You have to compare it specifically to the other floating worker trick (right-click on a visible mineral field, no fog of war. I call it A) which costs much more for the scouting player. He has to send the 2nd scouting worker while the 1st one is still alive. This makes it vulnerable and expensive. So the B-trick is like an improved version of the A-trick and that little bit makes it imbalanced. Of course I don't know if the KESPA followed the same arguing but it's how I explain their decision to myself. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
one can argue that this makes games less predictable and more due to luck or chance, but as people have mentioned it does hurt the "hider" to put two workers on a ramp. i think KeSPA just looked at the situation and determined that if a player wants to pay the cost of blocking his ramp with workers, he should be able to accomplish hiding his base from an enemy scouting worker. edit: oh shit 10,000 | ||
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Seku
United States313 Posts
Being able to bypass a terran wall of buildings by building a pylon is not always effective, costs money, and can only be used in a few situations (I can't remember the last time I saw it..). More importantly, though, being able to bypass buildings which generally would have been built anyways- so the placement barely, if at all, effects the economy- or being able to bypass early-game worker units is a HUGE difference. Yes, they both result in successful scouting, but obviously using early-game workers has both a much bigger impact on the economy than building placement, and requires the player to control the workers to not move around when blocking the incoming scout. The difference seems quite clear to me between blocking with units or with early-game buildings. Terran can float buildings over, zerg can use overlords, protoss can pylon-jump buildings, but no race should be able to hop their ground units over other ground units being controlled to block a scout from entering when they don't have vision; just because it is using a bug that is (kind of) used in other situations doesn't make it ok. | ||
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bellsprout
Australia219 Posts
can't believe that was between 2 progamers | ||
ManaBlue
Canada10458 Posts
On October 19 2007 11:57 Purind wrote: I'm so glad he got disqualified!! go rA!! ForGG's build was awesome though, makes it seem like a 1 rax expo build. Very nicely done, sounds like something rA would do, and it totally had rA fooled. Nice strategy, owned by himself. I haven't seen Free's PvZ much, but isn't it supposed to be the best PvZ on the planet? Free's PvZ is insaneo. He'd give Bisu a run for his money in that matchup. However, Bisu's cold as ice and performs in clutch games in general. Free has a little midas-syndrome going on, so you can never be sure who's going to show up. It's been his biggest problem throughout his career. And as for ForGG, that was pathetic. That bug, in THAT CONTEXT, was so hyped up after gogo used it that there is no excuse to "not know". What a tool. The only thing that's worse is that gogo got away with it like a turd. Did ForGG think he would too? Lame. | ||
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