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TMNT
3229 Posts
The moment: https://www.fmkorea.com/9014206061 I think he could still win. The supply was 90 vs 120 but Bisu had like 9 Carriers and way less workers. I've seen Carriers plow through Terrans in even less favorable positions | ||
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Kespa1988
103 Posts
On October 10 2025 23:03 FunkyDragoon wrote: + Show Spoiler + Bisu accidentally quit his game vs Sharp lol. I think he would have lost anyways but still JD did same while ago during proleauge during intense muta fighting in zvz. | ||
Peeano
Netherlands5630 Posts
On October 10 2025 23:07 TMNT wrote: + Show Spoiler + The moment: https://www.fmkorea.com/9014206061 I think he could still win. The supply was 90 vs 120 but Bisu had like 9 Carriers and way less workers. I've seen Carriers plow through Terrans in even less favorable positions + Show Spoiler + Bisu and carriers tho | ||
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TMNT
3229 Posts
MAJOR PROLEAGUE, OCT 15 2025 [Team A]  Mini Stork  Flash Rush  Somavs [Team B] Snow Sharp JYJ Hero QueenSET 1 (PROLEAGUE) Mini <Roaring Currents> Queen Rush <KnockOut> Snow Soma <Dominator> Sharp Stork <Radeon> JYJ + Show Spoiler [Game 5] + Flash <Litmus> Hero + Show Spoiler [Game 6] + Mini <Metropolis> Hero + Show Spoiler [Game 7] + Flash <Pole Star> Hero SET 2 (WINNERS LEAGUE) Mini <Litmus> Queen + Show Spoiler [Game 2] + Rush <Dominator> Queen + Show Spoiler [Game 3] + Rush <Radeon> Sharp + Show Spoiler [Game 4] + Rush <KnockOut> Snow + Show Spoiler [Game 5] + Rush <Pole Star> JYJ + Show Spoiler [Game 6] + Stork <Metropolis> JYJ + Show Spoiler [Game 7] + Stork <Metropolis> Hero + Show Spoiler [Game 8] + Soma <Dominator> Hero + Show Spoiler [Game 9] + Flash <Radeon> Hero SUPER ACE + Show Spoiler + Rush <Metropolis> JYJ + Show Spoiler [Set 1 Results] + Mini < Queen Rush < Snow Soma > Sharp Stork < JYJ Flash > Hero Mini > Hero Flash > Hero + Show Spoiler [Set 2 Results] + Mini < Queen Rush > Queen Rush > Sharp Rush > Snow Rush < JYJ Stork > JYJ Stork < Hero Soma < Hero Flash < Hero + Show Spoiler [FINAL RESULTS] + Rush beat JYJ in the super ace | ||
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
The Mini Queen game on Roaring Currents was very close to what I wanted to see from a Protoss player with the exception of him not responding for 10 minutes to the massive doom drop to the main that he placed a spotting pylon to see. I don't know if he did enough harass damage to avoid a repeat of Bisu soma, but he wasn't just going fast 3 Stargate Carrier and hoping that the Zerg player would sit around with his thumb up his ass. | ||
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TMNT
3229 Posts
On October 16 2025 00:41 RogueTheGOAT wrote: + Show Spoiler + The Mini Queen game on Roaring Currents was very close to what I wanted to see from a Protoss player with the exception of him not responding for 10 minutes to the massive doom drop to the main that he placed a spotting pylon to see. I don't know if he did enough harass damage to avoid a repeat of Bisu soma, but he wasn't just going fast 3 Stargate Carrier and hoping that the Zerg player would sit around with his thumb up his ass. I am not sure it's the right way to play though. Refer to my post summing up the games I saw on this map before (below). Mini vs Queen today played out almost exactly the same way as Bisu vs Queen on August 20: When P tries to go directly into Carriers without securing an early advantage first, he just dies to Z during the transition because the ground army is almost non-existent. See Bisu vs Queen on Aug 20. Bisu builds a very early Beacon at 8:00 when his Sair Reaver can't get any Drone earlier. Queen just makes 2 drops at the same time and kills both Bisu's main and 3rd with little resistance (a few Reavers not enough for mass Hydra). Basically, not enough of a lead = die during transition to Carriers. I mean, Queen even did to Mini today the exact same move that he did to Bisu then: simultaneous drops at main and third. Mini today also built the Beacon at 8:00 just like Bisu. He killed about 5 Drones earlier. When I read your post I thought Mini totally neglected the doom drop in main, but upon watching, it's not like he wasn't responding to it. He just didn't have enough. He had 2 Reaver at the 3rd with his Corsair fleet and defended the drop there. But in his main, his ground army comprised of 1 Reaver 1 Goon and 2 Zealots. That's it. It's also worth noting that Queen opened with 3 Hatch before Pool so he was in a much stronger position than the usual Zerg, and that probably means the few damage Mini did to him via Reaver harass means nothing to the Zerg. In the end, if we have to compare, Bisu at least got to 12 Carriers or something vs Soma, while Mini couldn't even build a Carrier before dying. | ||
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
On October 16 2025 03:02 TMNT wrote: When I read your post I thought Mini totally neglected the doom drop in main, but upon watching, it's not like he wasn't responding to it. He just didn't have enough. He had 2 Reaver at the 3rd with his Corsair fleet and defended the drop there. But in his main, his ground army comprised of 1 Reaver 1 Goon and 2 Zealots. That's it. The army he had defending his main and natural were small as you noted, so he was always going to struggle to clean up, but the speed at which he responded did him no favors. I watch at 2x speed and even I immediately saw the doom drop on the minimap make its way to the Nexus before he responded. Even with a much larger army he was going to take pretty significant economic damage though he might have been able to avoid the infrastructure damage. I wonder if sticking on 3 bases before getting a few carriers out would help. The Protoss player cannot have air dominance, a large ground army AND be making carriers at the same time. If your bases are all in a line, you have a lot less space to defend which lets you more quickly bring your army to where it is needed. I suppose the question also needs to be asked: If you have complete air dominance and are still getting doom dropped, what are you accomplishing with all of your invested resources? Whether that is a fundamental strategic flaw or an execution flaw is another question. If you have air control, why is the entire map other than the islands completely dark? If the map were played for years without destroying tournaments by giving Zerg a near free win in ZvP in later stages, I feel like someone might figure something out to bring the balance closer to parity, but I don't think we'll ever see it get there. | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia479 Posts
Btw Snow tried playing standard today vs Queen and got stomped hard... | ||
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
On October 16 2025 06:33 Rainalcar wrote: I still think going straight to Carriers, turtling, and waiting for storm or maelstrom is better. Reaver harass is too difficult, the avenues are obvious and easily defendable. Btw Snow tried playing standard today vs Queen and got stomped hard... Maybe someone will try it and it will work, but the problem with going straight Carrier + Storm / Maelstrom with no pressure on the Zerg is that you're likely going to be fighting a maxed out Zerg player on 6+ bases. If you don't land the absolute godliest spell casting, you're just flat out dead. If the Zerg player realizes what the Protoss player is doing, they just build a control group or two of cracklings and then just eviscerate the High Templar or Dark Templar since there would be nothing to buffer for them on the ground. | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia479 Posts
On October 16 2025 07:15 RogueTheGOAT wrote: Maybe someone will try it and it will work, but the problem with going straight Carrier + Storm / Maelstrom with no pressure on the Zerg is that you're likely going to be fighting a maxed out Zerg player on 6+ bases. If you don't land the absolute godliest spell casting, you're just flat out dead. If the Zerg player realizes what the Protoss player is doing, they just build a control group or two of cracklings and then just eviscerate the High Templar or Dark Templar since there would be nothing to buffer for them on the ground. I think you take the middle island and pressure the base just above from there, keeping the Z pinned and retreating to the island, while slowly building to templar tech and watching for any doom drops. Like Bisu did in ASL, except he lost the first fight heavily. I don't see any other way to play this map. Cheese probably doesn't work either. What would you play? | ||
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TMNT
3229 Posts
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SCRVN
227 Posts
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TMNT
3229 Posts
MAJOR PROLEAGUE, OCT 16 2025 [Team A] Mini Snow Flash Rush Queenvs [Team B] Stork Light Soma Hero EffortSET 1 (PROLEAGUE) Snow <Roaring Currents> Light Rush <KnockOut> Stork Flash <Pole Star> Soma Queen <Dominator> Effort + Show Spoiler [Game 5] + Mini <Radeon> Hero + Show Spoiler [Game 6] + Flash <Litmus> Hero + Show Spoiler [Game 7] + SET 2 (WINNERS LEAGUE) Queen <KnockOut> Hero + Show Spoiler [Game 2] + Flash <Litmus> Hero + Show Spoiler [Game 3] + Rush <Pole Star> Hero + Show Spoiler [Game 4] + Rush <Dominator> Stork + Show Spoiler [Game 5] + Rush <Radeon> Light + Show Spoiler [Game 6] + Snow <Metropolis> Light + Show Spoiler [Game 7] + Snow <Metropolis> Soma + Show Spoiler [Game 8] + Mini <KnockOut> Soma + Show Spoiler [Game 9] + Mini <Dominator> Effort SUPER ACE + Show Spoiler + Mini <KnockOut> Soma + Show Spoiler [Set 1 Results] + Snow > Light Rush < Stork Flash > Soma Queen > Effort Mini < Hero Flash > Hero + Show Spoiler [Set 2 Results] + Queen < Hero Flash < Hero Rush > Hero Rush > Stork Rush < Light Snow > Light Snow < Soma Mini > Soma Mini < Effort + Show Spoiler [FINAL RESULTS] + Soma beat Mini in the super ace | ||
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
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TMNT
3229 Posts
ONLY SOOP VOD AVAILABLE MAJOR PROLEAGUE, OCT 17 2025 [Team A] Snow Light Royal JYJ vs [Team B] Bisu Hero Soulkey Soma SET 1 (PROLEAGUE) Light <Litmus> Bisu Royal <Dominator> Hero JYJ <Metropolis> Soulkey Snow <Radeon> Soma + Show Spoiler [Game 5] + JYJ <Roaring Currents> Soma + Show Spoiler [Game 6] + Royal <KnockOut> Soulkey + Show Spoiler [Game 7] + Royal <Pole Star> Soulkey SET 2 (WINNERS LEAGUE) Royal <Radeon> Soma + Show Spoiler [Game 2] + JYJ <Litmus> Soma + Show Spoiler [Game 3] + JYJ <Pole Star> Bisu + Show Spoiler [Game 4] + Snow <Dominator> Bisu + Show Spoiler [Game 5] + Snow <KnockOut> Hero + Show Spoiler [Game 6] + Snow <Metropolis> Soulkey + Show Spoiler [Game 7] + Light <Radeon> Soulkey + Show Spoiler [Game 8] + Light <KnockOut> Hero + Show Spoiler [Game 9] + Royal <Pole Star> Hero SUPER ACE + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler [Set 1 Results] + Light > Bisu Royal < Hero JYJ > Soulkey Snow > Soma JYJ < Soma Royal < Soulkey Royal > Soulkey + Show Spoiler [Set 2 Results] + Royal < Soma JYJ > Soma JYJ < Bisu Snow > Bisu Snow > Hero Snow < Soulkey Light > Soulkey Light < Hero Royal > Hero + Show Spoiler [FINAL RESULTS] + | ||
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TMNT
3229 Posts
MAJOR PROLEAGUE, OCT 19 2025 [Team A] Mini Stork Light Royal Queenvs [Team B] Rush Sharp Hero Larva SomaSET 1 (PROLEAGUE) Light <Metropolis> Sharp Mini <Radeon> Rush Stork <Pole Star> Larva Queen <Litmus> Soma + Show Spoiler [Game 5] + Royal <KnockOut> Hero + Show Spoiler [Game 6] + Mini <Roaring Currents> Larva + Show Spoiler [Game 7] + SET 2 (WINNERS LEAGUE) Stork <Dominator> Larva + Show Spoiler [Game 2] + Royal <Radeon> Larva + Show Spoiler [Game 3] + Royal <Metropolis> Sharp + Show Spoiler [Game 4] + Royal <Litmus> Rush + Show Spoiler [Game 5] + Royal <KnockOut> Soma + Show Spoiler [Game 6] + Light <Pole Star> Soma + Show Spoiler [Game 7] + Light <Dominator> Hero + Show Spoiler [Game 8] + Queen <Radeon> Hero + Show Spoiler [Game 9] + SUPER ACE + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler [Set 1 Results] + Light > Sharp Mini > Rush Stork < Larva Queen < Soma Royal > Hero Mini > Larva + Show Spoiler [Set 2 Results] + Stork < Larva Royal > Larva Royal > Sharp Royal > Rush Royal < Soma Light > Soma Light < Hero Queen > Hero + Show Spoiler [FINAL RESULTS] + | ||
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TMNT
3229 Posts
MAJOR PROLEAGUE, OCT 20 2025 [Team A] Snow Flash Effort Larva Somavs [Team B] Bisu Light Royal Hero JaedongSET 1 (PROLEAGUE) Effort <Litmus> Light Flash <Roaring Currents> Bisu Snow <Radeon> Jaedong Soma <Dominator> Hero + Show Spoiler [Game 5] + Larva <Pole Star> Royal + Show Spoiler [Game 6] + + Show Spoiler [Game 7] + SET 2 (WINNERS LEAGUE) Effort <Dominator> Jaedong + Show Spoiler [Game 2] + Larva <KnockOut> Jaedong + Show Spoiler [Game 3] + Larva <Litmus> Royal + Show Spoiler [Game 4] + Snow <Radeon> Royal + Show Spoiler [Game 5] + Snow <Pole Star> Hero + Show Spoiler [Game 6] + Flash <Metropolis> Hero + Show Spoiler [Game 7] + Flash <Metropolis> Light + Show Spoiler [Game 8] + Soma <Dominator> Light + Show Spoiler [Game 9] + SUPER ACE + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler [Set 1 Results] + Effort < Light Flash < Bisu Snow > Jaedong Soma < Hero Larva < Royal + Show Spoiler [Set 2 Results] + Effort < Jaedong Larva > Jaedong Larva < Royal Snow > Royal Snow < Hero Flash > Hero Flash < Light Soma < Light + Show Spoiler [FINAL RESULTS] + Can't believe a team consisting of Flash Soma Snow lost the Proleague | ||
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Vasoline73
United States8066 Posts
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TMNT
3229 Posts
Flash got the game in the bag after such opening but he maybe got too cocky with his push later that allowed Bisu to come back Also it shows how much of an advantage the defender has on this map. The reinforcement of the attacker is so slow lol. | ||
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FunkyDragoon
48 Posts
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