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[ASL14] Ro16 Group C
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51291 Posts
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masoka82
Spain599 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51291 Posts
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sysen
27 Posts
Zero > Soulkey Soma>zero (2-1) Snow > Soulkey (2-1) Zero > snow (2-1 after losing 1st game) | ||
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Tarmak_mk
Macedonia410 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
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t2azor
32 Posts
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HOLYBATS
Turkey820 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
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prosatan
Romania9194 Posts
 Cannot watch all games... i might catch a few glimpses  | ||
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51291 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4276 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51291 Posts
are we finally getting it? | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51291 Posts
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TMNT
3296 Posts
That is he didn't ban Arkanoid. How do you even open on that map as Protoss lol. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51291 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51291 Posts
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Seacow
Sweden99 Posts
On September 06 2022 20:22 TMNT wrote: Snow made such a huge mistake in game 1 versus Queen there. That is he didn't ban Arkanoid. How do you even open on that map as Protoss lol. I rarely watch bw, but how can you play such a map and manage to get completely blind sided by an obvious map feature? What am I missing? "Oh no, he used the backdoor and now I'm dead lol." | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51291 Posts
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oEkY
Germany649 Posts
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reincremate
China2216 Posts
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HOLYBATS
Turkey820 Posts
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TMNT
3296 Posts
On September 06 2022 20:34 Seacow wrote: I rarely watch bw, but how can you play such a map and manage to get completely blind sided by an obvious map feature? What am I missing? "Oh no, he used the backdoor and now I'm dead lol." The bold part explains why you dont understand. It's essentially a 2 hatch hydra bust from Zerg. On a normal map, IF you scout it on time, you put cannons at your single entrance to defend. On Arknoid, you scout it late, PLUS you have 2 entrances to defend. So it becomes that your cannons are late AND you don't know where to put them. | ||
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oEkY
Germany649 Posts
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reincremate
China2216 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51291 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51291 Posts
On September 06 2022 21:06 reincremate wrote: And now for the knife fights. Hopefully they're all packing Swiss Army knives that come with hive tech. unless its on arkanoid I doubt it. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51291 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51291 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51291 Posts
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Zariel
Australia1312 Posts
From Snow pumping enough cannons and zealots to keep 3 hatch hydra at bay whilst Zero went 4 base hydra lurker then Snow's army with speedlots/goons/HTs managed to press the onslaught. At some point, it felt like Snow's deathball was dwindling too much against the constant reinforcements from Zero, but Snow had awesome storms that gave him the upper hand on each engagement. Props to Snow staying focused and pulling out the win | ||
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reincremate
China2216 Posts
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FunkyDragoon
49 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51291 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
On September 06 2022 21:41 reincremate wrote: I'll be sad if Zero or Soulkey gets eliminated, but I'll be glad that Soulkey or Zero advanced. I'll be more surprised to see SnOw and SK advancing from group of death rather than ZerO and SoMa. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51291 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51291 Posts
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reincremate
China2216 Posts
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oEkY
Germany649 Posts
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TMNT
3296 Posts
The player who everyone thinks will get massacred came out on top. Then the weakest ZvZ player came second. | ||
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HOLYBATS
Turkey820 Posts
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FunkyDragoon
49 Posts
Interesting outcome. I expected Soma and Queen to advance lol. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4276 Posts
 GGs | ||
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CeJo1
32 Posts
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Seacow
Sweden99 Posts
On September 06 2022 21:05 TMNT wrote: The bold part explains why you dont understand. It's essentially a 2 hatch hydra bust from Zerg. On a normal map, IF you scout it on time, you put cannons at your single entrance to defend. On Arknoid, you scout it late, PLUS you have 2 entrances to defend. So it becomes that your cannons are late AND you don't know where to put them. Thanks! So you're telling me the map is a coinflip away from becoming a BO win for Z? Sounds like bad map design, but I appreciate weirder maps (sc2 maps are all the same). | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
On September 06 2022 22:03 reincremate wrote: Group of upsets. Well done by Soulkey. Whats so upsetting? Snow is a beast. | ||
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namkraft
582 Posts
1. if zerg went for 1 base zergling rush, or 2 base hydras rusk, you can go for 14 nexus and simply out-macro him. Just put a pylon at each entrance and u'll be fine. in this case, don't build stargate. 2. if zerg went mutas rush, you can rush to corsairs and still beat him. Any other scenario, toss will fail. The same goes for zerg. The only kind of advantage that Zerg has is free early scout. But again, only if he's lucky to scout in the right direction (33% chance). We already saw Snow defeated Sacsri with scenario 2 above in KCM last week. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
That being said I think he wasn't challenged to the fullest. The true test will come when he has to prove he can claw his way out of a disadvantage. | ||
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angry_maia
332 Posts
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Lazyer
United States395 Posts
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XenOsky
Chile2358 Posts
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XenOsky
Chile2358 Posts
On September 07 2022 02:02 namkraft wrote: On hindsight, I don't think Neo Arkanoid is imba for zerg vs. protoss. It's simply a coin flip. 1. if zerg went for 1 base zergling rush, or 2 base hydras rusk, you can go for 14 nexus and simply out-macro him. Just put a pylon at each entrance and u'll be fine. in this case, don't build stargate. 2. if zerg went mutas rush, you can rush to corsairs and still beat him. Any other scenario, toss will fail. The same goes for zerg. The only kind of advantage that Zerg has is free early scout. But again, only if he's lucky to scout in the right direction (33% chance). We already saw Snow defeated Sacsri with scenario 2 above in KCM last week. u can not skip a stargate in Arkanoid vs Z, cause scout is so late that u may die to something as stupid as 1h muta. arkanoid is in fact my favorite map, cause i think is good for protoss, 11 nexus 11 forge (ofc u can delay forge and get gate for faster tech) into sair reaver is kinda good here vs z , the only problem is that your natural nexus is oop but u can take 3rd quickly so it compensates later. i found kinda odd of snow to go 1gate, instead of nexus 1st, but he knows better, so i wont complain. | ||
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TornadoSteve
1123 Posts
On September 07 2022 04:07 angry_maia wrote: this has gotta be a dream scenario for snow in ASL. He's in ro8, Soma and Queen are both eliminated, and he's guaranteed to not be playing either Soulkey or Light in his first match with Rush or Shine being two possible opponents. My thoughts exactly. Worst case scenario for him would be to roll a 33% while Mini gets 2nd tomorrow -.- | ||
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TT1
Canada10060 Posts
my 2 fav players | ||
Last Romantic
United States20666 Posts
Like, his storms were on point, but Soma/Queen's army control was just super off. Also losing so many hydra/lurker running away across half the map? I dunno. Game is hard, but I feel the Zs were a bit sloppy. | ||
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moktira
Ireland1548 Posts
On September 07 2022 06:08 Last Romantic wrote: I don't get how Snow won so many fights vs hydra lurker when he was only ~10-15 supply ahead. Like, his storms were on point, but Soma/Queen's army control was just super off. Also losing so many hydra/lurker running away across half the map? I dunno. Game is hard, but I feel the Zs were a bit sloppy. Didn't he have an upgrade advantage at that point? Or was that a different game I'm thinking of. | ||
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TMNT
3296 Posts
On September 07 2022 02:02 namkraft wrote: On hindsight, I don't think Neo Arkanoid is imba for zerg vs. protoss. It's simply a coin flip. 1. if zerg went for 1 base zergling rush, or 2 base hydras rusk, you can go for 14 nexus and simply out-macro him. Just put a pylon at each entrance and u'll be fine. in this case, don't build stargate. 2. if zerg went mutas rush, you can rush to corsairs and still beat him. Any other scenario, toss will fail. The same goes for zerg. The only kind of advantage that Zerg has is free early scout. But again, only if he's lucky to scout in the right direction (33% chance). We already saw Snow defeated Sacsri with scenario 2 above in KCM last week. Nah you're not getting it. Ofc it's a coin flip but the problem is the coin generally gives Z better odds, then T, and lastly P. Think about PvZ on normal maps. As P you can still die to ling, hydra, lurker, or muta rush on a standard map. But you get to scout and have some clues and maybe stop it. On Arkanoid you don't even know where the Z is until your first sair is out. So you have to make a totally blind choice and hope it works. For example, you rush to sair on 1 base to know what the hell the Z is doing (like Snow), but then you find out they're going 2H hydra bust and you can't get your cannons up in time (and also where?). The same doesn't apply for Zerg. On standard map the only early cheese P can do are 2 gate or cannon rush, which of course dont work here. So as Z you're completely safe in the early game and by the time the overlord finds P you're mostly prepared for whatever is coming at you. Fundamentally it goes back to the fact that the build order for Protoss diverges the most out of the 3 races, down to the placement of the first pylon. So it's easiest to go wrong for Protoss. While as Zerg it's all fine whether you go pool first or hatch first. Terran is kind of in the middle. It's very similar to the way each race deals with random. | ||
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QOGQOG
834 Posts
Edit: Finished watching and congrats to SoulKey as well. Was not expecting both of the players who have historically been held back by their vZ matchups advance. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13476 Posts
Re Arkanoid, I think in longer games it favours P in PvZ as it's a bit island-y with all the neutral buildings. But I reckon Ps have to be a bit more conservative in the early game. 1 base cair/reaver into expanding so you can better defend early rushes. Snow seemed a bit too eager to expand early and it cost him. | ||
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reincremate
China2216 Posts
Not upsetting, but Zero and Soma were clear favorites. | ||
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neveranexit
14 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
Has SK's ZvZ really improved? Or just coin-flip flukes? Any recommended games? Glad that Soma dropped out. Really silly of him to pick Snow. As I said previously, I think Snow made a brilliant strategic master stroke by picking Queen (knowing Queen will likely pick another Zerg). Snow gets to prep for only one matchup, while the Zergs have to stress over ZvZ micro and mind games. Plus he gets to eliminate pesky Zergs at the group stage rather than face a gruelling B05 PvZ series. | ||
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Szinkler
Hungary394 Posts
At least this is how I see it. (Basically that was a gg moment right there. The only thing that could have changed the outcome was if Zero can come from both sides but looking at the map that is also not really possible in time.) | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
On September 07 2022 10:32 reincremate wrote: Not upsetting, but Zero and Soma were clear favorites. I had Snow and Zero as winners. Sure there were doubts vs 3 zergs but you still dont play 3 zergs anyway. Snow does this kind of streaks in Race Wars too. | ||
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