IriS will take this and the whole OSL. I think I actually want Iris to win the OSL more than Flash now and if they face each other in the finals there's no way Iris loses.
no way flash is going to win the whole thing, he's just too young. and i can't see ggplay winning it either because he doesn't strike me as a winner. whoever wins this semifinal wins the whole thing. imo
does anyone know how good lris' TvP is? I've never seen him play a TvP before, so it's gonna be exciting. But no matter what I doubt there anything he can do. It's gonna be like when a Z runs into Bisu... utterly brutal!
And I think that GGplay will take it all, just because because he has been playing godly lately. And his ZvT has been insanely good, I honestly think he has the best ZvT in the world right now. But I havent seen his ZvP, but I since he has raped all tosses, I presume he's only gonna lose to a true PvZ'er like Bisu.
I would like Iris to advance, but I think one of the things hampering him could be the lack of a practice partner on Stork's level. His TvZ used to be pathetic, but suddenly reached championship status when he had Savior to practice against. However, I don't think Much or that other Protoss on CJ are going to provide much in the way of practice for Iris. The only way he'll win is if he analyses all of Stork's games vs T, as well as plays P a couple of times himself to get a feel for the Protoss timing, and then goes back to practising Terran counters. Don't know if he has the time or the high caliber practice partners to do that.
I think Iris has a very fair shot at winning this. I know that Stork is something like 10-0 against Iris (don't correct me if I'm wrong) but Iris has constantly been stopped by THE hot player in Starleague. At least last one. I don't see why Iris couldn't take this seeing how FBH brought Stork to game 5. Yes, I think Iris is a better Terran player than FBH. He has been around long enough, he deserves a major title.
On July 06 2007 01:59 OctoPuSs wrote: I think Iris has a very fair shot at winning this. I know that Stork is something like 10-0 against Iris (don't correct me if I'm wrong) but Iris has constantly been stopped by THE hot player in Starleague. At least last one. I don't see why Iris couldn't take this seeing how FBH brought Stork to game 5. Yes, I think Iris is a better Terran player than FBH. He has been around long enough, he deserves a major title.
I do think Iris is better than FBH, but "deservedness" doesn't really enter the picture here...
On July 06 2007 01:59 The Storyteller wrote: I would like Iris to advance, but I think one of the things hampering him could be the lack of a practice partner on Stork's level. His TvZ used to be pathetic, but suddenly reached championship status when he had Savior to practice against. However, I don't think Much or that other Protoss on CJ are going to provide much in the way of practice for Iris. The only way he'll win is if he analyses all of Stork's games vs T, as well as plays P a couple of times himself to get a feel for the Protoss timing, and then goes back to practising Terran counters. Don't know if he has the time or the high caliber practice partners to do that.
This makes absolutely no sense. By your statement, sAviOr's ZvP should be bad because his practice partner is Much. In fact, Much PvT is a whole lot better than his PvZ. I personally don't think a Starleague Semi-finalist has that much problem finding good practice partners .
If Stork breaks out Game5 PvT form versus FBH against Iris, Iris would be damned lucky to take a game. The FBH versus Stork series was extremely odd, with very uncharacteristic plays by FBH in 1+2 and Stork in 3+4. The only game we really saw Stork playing his feared PvT was where he won convincingly, despite the utter mass of quivering fail that was that game's Scarab AI.
I've always thought Iris was criminally underrated as a player, but I don't see him winning here. 3:1/3:2 to the Birdy.
On July 06 2007 01:59 The Storyteller wrote: I would like Iris to advance, but I think one of the things hampering him could be the lack of a practice partner on Stork's level. His TvZ used to be pathetic, but suddenly reached championship status when he had Savior to practice against. However, I don't think Much or that other Protoss on CJ are going to provide much in the way of practice for Iris. The only way he'll win is if he analyses all of Stork's games vs T, as well as plays P a couple of times himself to get a feel for the Protoss timing, and then goes back to practising Terran counters. Don't know if he has the time or the high caliber practice partners to do that.
This makes absolutely no sense. By your statement, sAviOr's ZvP should be bad because his practice partner is Much. In fact, Much PvT is a whole lot better than his PvZ. I personally don't think a Starleague Semi-finalist has that much problem finding good practice partners .
I hope you're right... I'd love to be proven wrong!
On July 06 2007 02:29 MaGic~PhiL wrote: do we have a stream for this one, too ? plz post something if u got it.. =] we'll keep it teamliquid intern, for sure.. x)
On July 06 2007 01:54 Da_PlayerX wrote: boghat why do you think iris will win today give some arguments for this opinoin
It's mostly that I want him to win, not that I'm confident he will. But I think he definitely has the skill to win and the maps are definitely fine for him. I also thinks he wants to win this OSL really really bad. At least for Stork he could still win the MSL. His game against Reach wasn't that good in the ro16 though but actually Reach played really well that game. However he is 2-0 TvP in the proleague but I don't know who he played. He did lose to Stork in the MSL prelims earlier too but I didn't see the game. Anyone know how it was?
Stork gets his gateway and gas in his main. He hops his probe (that warped his nexus) into Iris' main via the bottem lane and a pylon hop. Iris chases it with a scv.
Iris getting gas. He constructs his first factory. Stork finishes up a cyber core as well.
Both expoes finished for both players. Both mining away the mineral block now.
6 speed/mine vults crash into Stork's unprotected top lane nat. They have fun with probes, killing a bunch and forcing the workers to flee. Iris runs them into Stork's main and lays mines all over the place, in front of the gates mostly.
An observer pops for Stork and he's able to get rid of the mines at his main and nat. Iris euns 3 more vults into Stork's main to pop workers. Stork's lost a goodish deal of workers. He's up toa bout a group of goons.
Iris at home has something like 4 facts, 2 with addon. Macroing up a tank/vult army. Stork warps a citadel and another gate to make 6.
Iris moving out with 6ish tanks, 8ish vults and 4 rines!
Iris pushes up the center lane and camps right outside of Stork's main with a bunch of vults/tanks.
Iris 3 vult raids both of Stork's expos. He nets a couple of kills despite the cannons there.
Without Vulture support, Iris' tanks are vulnerable. Stork runs his group of goons amonst the tanks and takes them out. Loses a handful of goons in the process.
Iris runs about 6 vults into Stork's top lane nat. Doesn't kill and probes and instead kill a goon before fleeing.
Iris expoing to the top lane and rushing some vults up the bottem.
Iris takes a ton of vults and a handful of tanks up the bottem lane. He lays a TON of spider mines along the pathway. Stork has a observer though and simply blows up the mines as he chases Iris.
right into his tanks. Stork is forced to retreat his troops back ot his main instead of engaging Iris.
Iris in the process of razing Stork's bottem lane nat. Iris proceeds to expo to the bottem lane nat as well. Stork loses his citadel. He has a TArchives though. Don't think he has speed though.
Ninjas out for Stork. One heads down the top lane. Stork expos to the center lane as well.
Stork does have zealot speed, and uses it to take out Iris' push.
Iris simply has another push ready however and runs 6ish tanks to Stork's top lane base. He walls his tanks with his battacks and another building. His tanks raze the nexus and TArchives w/o any resistance from Stork.
Stork tries to take the tanks out with his zealots, but loses them all and takes out only half the tanks. Even with storm Iris defeats Stork's attack.
Iris runs more vults into Stork's main. They weaken his tiny goon force further.
Stork trying to stay in the game and harass. Storm drops tather ineffuctual though.
Stork reduced to only the center lane base. When it comes under attack, Stork types out.
Iris made FBH look like a moron after that game. Seriously did FBH not have enough balls to beat his own teammate or what? Or just not enough confidence in his TvP I guess.
On July 06 2007 03:10 boghat wrote: Out of my obsessiveness to get the fastest stream I've noticed sc2 is slightly faster than yaoyuan for anyone that cares.
A reaver pops just as the robo facility starts burning. Stork quickly scoops it up.
Some nice handling frmo Stork lets him snag 2 tanks with a scarab. Vults and tanks running rampant in Stork's base though. Tons of mines are planted at Stork's gateways.
Iris completely dominating Birdtoss. He has a tank and 5 vults raping everything Stork has. Stork can't get anything done because of mass mines.
WRAITH COMES TO TAKE OUT STORK'S LAST HOPE. His reaver.
Stork staying alive. Has FINALLY cleared the mines from his base and is macroing off 2 bases and 3 gateways.
Iris just finishes up his expo. Stork sends 3 goons to harass the expo. Iris has a bunch of tanks to defend. Some nice dropship/tank micro lets Iris kill a goon without losing a tank.
Iris drops Stork's nat cliff with 2 tanks and protects it with 3 paper planes.
Stork tries to coutnerattack at Iris' nat. When his goon force is mobbed by scvs, Birdtoss types out!
Storks micro this game is an absolute must see. Also Iris's timing with his push vs the expansion and reaver timing was completely perfect. Also I'm not sure if the live reporters noticed this but Iris's scv block micro on the ramp was game saving. Had stork been able to get his probe up he wouldve been able to pylon in iris's wall and done significan damage with his early proxy gate zealots.
On July 06 2007 03:10 boghat wrote: Out of my obsessiveness to get the fastest stream I've noticed sc2 is slightly faster than yaoyuan for anyone that cares.
daum player >>> yy and sc2 ^^
I figured it was but I've been too lazy to download it yet.
sea.leta showed iris the way...stork's passive early macro game intro is prone to great timing attacks. Iris definetly studied and perfected his rushes. Fantasy however, has many random variables, I wonder what Iris has planned for this game?
The micro in this game was just breath-taking...too bad that Stork was careless about rallying and lost 4-5 units in vain (not like it woulda saved his cliff without a robo though). But the micro...just wow.
On July 06 2007 03:26 oshibori_probe wrote: btw there are many people credited with the best TvT
Yeah but Iris is statistically the best at 35-19. He has also gone 20-6 in the past year, beating every other top tier terran player in that time. He simply is the best.
On July 06 2007 03:26 oshibori_probe wrote: btw there are many people credited with the best TvT
Yeah but Iris is statistically the best at 35-19. He has also gone 20-6 in the past year, beating every other top tier terran player in that time. He simply is the best.
btw he is 2-1 vs nada, nada hasnt beat him since 05. Manner up.
Yeah TvZ would be better. I guess Flash has gone far enough. He has a good chance at advancing though and I wouldn't mind seeing how he handles himself in the finals even if it's a TvT.
I'm not sure what I'd rather have, Iris just finish it in this game or the next or have a nailbiter 5th and possibly have Stork advance. That 5th game would be awesome though.
Iris had so much more practice time than Stork, he really had studied Storks every possible way. Poor Stork, looks like he is not going to be the next sAviOr after all..
GGPlay vs Iris would be awesome for Iris to win a match. Iris played only one Z in a bo series, Savior. I'd like to see how he does vs GGplay.
Iris ~_~ Timing Master. UGH.
I wish Stork's probe in game 3 and game 2 ~_~ ughhhhh
On July 06 2007 03:45 xM(Z wrote: 2 facts > 1 gate; the hell was stork thinking
Maybe he doesn't play with map hack genius. Christ, idiots are gonna be hating on Stork but there were some unlucky factors and the fact Iris came with a vendetta.
Stork never got a probe into Iris' base... It's really quite unfortunate.
Gotta hand that to Iris, those were 3 very good plays. However you cant deny that Iris won out of build
Attention all protoss players, do 2 gate robo in all of your games for 1 month.
Stork having to do a 2 semis with no break between is alot to ask, and I think he broke under the pressure.
GJ Iris, this series was atleast worth watching. And I think Stork gave Iris a run for his money back on round2.
Theres many reasons to give excuses for stork loosing. So I will pick 3: Build, maps, and pressure
Still tho Iris played very well, As I have said before Flash will rape GGPlay so looks like a TvT final and a PvP final. Perhaps the first time where both finals are zergless and mirror
Anywho despite it only being 3 games that was a good series.
GG. and GJ Stork for making it this far. Stork vs GGPlay for 3rd place will be interesting.
SuperJongMan: \"Stork\'s PvT is so ridiculous, if he grabs an advantage, he does not let it go. Period. Iris is strong, but no terran is stopping Stork, don\'t be silly.\"
On July 06 2007 03:45 xM(Z wrote: 2 facts > 1 gate; the hell was stork thinking
You don't seem to get that when you face a terran that you know is very strong you can't just do a safe build and let terran outmacro you. Without scouting early you sometimes just have to go with a build that might be good even if terran is expanding...
I love Iris for showing that ;O haven't seen it in a while (terran players too chobo at tvp )
On July 06 2007 03:48 Pyrthas wrote: I don't quite understand why Stork insisted on fe again in the third game. Iris is so aggressive. Oh well.
Stork prepared this build before the series and progaming practice shows us (Savior-Busu f.e.) players hardly change their pre-match strategy during the match.
On July 06 2007 03:49 VioleTAK wrote: Stork messed around too much vs FBH, that Bo5 was so pathetic it simply got his play level so far down, Iris took him out so easy :-) GJ Iris!
On July 06 2007 03:47 SoMuchBetter wrote: SuperJongMan: \"Stork\'s PvT is so ridiculous, if he grabs an advantage, he does not let it go. Period. Iris is strong, but no terran is stopping Stork, don\'t be silly.\"
ahem.
What? Don't ahem me. You gotta have something better to say than that.
I can give excuses but I won't. People lose when they can't scout and get early pushed every game.
It happens. Stork chose not to use any early obs most games, Iris chose 2 fact. Plz, I'd put money on Stork over Iris even now.
I voted wrong twice, voted FBH and Stork :-) damn I'm so happy Iris won though, I actually wanted Strok to win originaly, but after yesterday's pathetic show, I was thinking Stork in one finals is more than enough, I didn't want FBH or Stork vs Bisu, after that Bo5.. Bisu should have got the title by default, it was that bad. GJ Iris for showing Stork PvT isn't kids playtime.
On July 06 2007 03:45 xM(Z wrote: 2 facts > 1 gate; the hell was stork thinking
Incase you havent noticed progamers tend to prepare 1 build for an entire match. Usually they have 1 or 2 strats that differ tho, and depending on the player its either a cheese or something less common.
Look at when Bisu took out Nal Ra, purely out of build order, this is no different. Also note that it is still safer to play a build you know more rather than out of the blue change from the strats uve practiced 12+ hours a day to strats you havent.
Iris took a risk and it payed off, only the finals will tell how wrong or lucky the TL.net bandwagon is.
On July 06 2007 03:45 Organ wrote: Don't you find it similar to Bisu vs Savior Final? Stork hasn't been able to adapt agressive Iris's play as well as ipx.
I do, actually! Very similar scenarios. Iris obviously studied Stork's play style closely and chose the perfect counters. Stork was unable to adapt during the games themselves, just like Savior vs. Bisu.
Only difference is that Stork was even MORE unfortunate than Savior, because he had less time to prepare for this map. Playing on Proleague AND MSL AND OSL is too much for anyone to take in this day and age.
The series wasn't that bad. And we all KNOW Iris is a very timing oriented player. Why the fuck would he go for a late-game macro fest vs Stork (even tho Iris himself has good macro).
On July 06 2007 03:46 SuperJongMan wrote: GGPlay vs Iris would be awesome for Iris to win a match. Iris played only one Z in a bo series, Savior. I'd like to see how he does vs GGplay.
Iris ~_~ Timing Master. UGH.
I wish Stork's probe in game 3 and game 2 ~_~ ughhhhh
On July 06 2007 03:45 xM(Z wrote: 2 facts > 1 gate; the hell was stork thinking
Maybe he doesn't play with map hack genius. Christ, idiots are gonna be hating on Stork but there were some unlucky factors and the fact Iris came with a vendetta.
Stork never got a probe into Iris' base... It's really quite unfortunate.
i know he could not scout iris but the first thing a newb (me) learns is that if you don't know what your oponent is doing you play it safe. i hate no one, i'm just enjoying the pwnage
Seriously though, a lot of people here get the wrong impression of a player based on certain performances and stats (ie. that oshibori guy who keeps running his mouth like he knows shit).
On July 06 2007 03:45 xM(Z wrote: 2 facts > 1 gate; the hell was stork thinking
Incase you havent noticed progamers tend to prepare 1 build for an entire match. Usually they have 1 or 2 strats that differ tho, and depending on the player its either a cheese or something less common.
Look at when Bisu took out Nal Ra, purely out of build order, this is no different. Also note that it is still safer to play a build you know more rather than out of the blue change from the strats uve practiced 12+ hours a day to strats you havent.
Iris took a risk and it payed off, only the finals will tell how wrong or lucky the TL.net bandwagon is.
On July 06 2007 03:46 SuperJongMan wrote: GGPlay vs Iris would be awesome for Iris to win a match. Iris played only one Z in a bo series, Savior. I'd like to see how he does vs GGplay.
Iris ~_~ Timing Master. UGH.
I wish Stork's probe in game 3 and game 2 ~_~ ughhhhh
On July 06 2007 03:45 xM(Z wrote: 2 facts > 1 gate; the hell was stork thinking
Maybe he doesn't play with map hack genius. Christ, idiots are gonna be hating on Stork but there were some unlucky factors and the fact Iris came with a vendetta.
Stork never got a probe into Iris' base... It's really quite unfortunate.
i know he could not scout iris but the first thing a newb (me) learns is that if you don't know what your oponent is doing you play it safe. i hate no one, i'm just enjoying the pwnage
That only applies to the 3rd game, and imo I can understand Stork's reasoning for thinking Iris won't 2 fact. The location simply isn't the best 2 fact location as mid game becomes terribly difficult in that base lay out.
Then again, he 2 fact vultured Reach from fuckin Xenosky ~__~_~_~~_~_~_~ who knows what Iris is thinking. He is simply thinking "kill" "kill" "kill" in his head.
Lol @ "Iris has been good", yeah only his TvT and his TvZ againts Savior otherwise this was pathetic play by Stork. This series deos not prove anything at all, and it definitely deos not prove Iris is better then Stork. About GGplay, you guys seriously underestimate his TvZ. He raped Casy, Nada, Hwasin with a ferocity unseen since Savior's domination era. Yeah Flash's TvZ is good, but he is going to have a hell of a time againts GGplay, who's on fire right now.
Also perhaps Stork did not want to be in both OSL and MSL finals because it would be too much for him? Just a thought to consider.
I think Stork didn't think Iris had the balls to 2 fact him that much. Then Iris just teabagged Stork. UNFORTUNATE. I still can't get over my dissappointment.
On July 06 2007 04:01 Duffybeer wrote:Also perhaps Stork did not want to be in both OSL and MSL finals because it would be too much for him? Just a thought to consider.
Don't ever consider something as stupid as a progamer giving up a match "on purpose". It will save you a lot of ridicule later down the road.
On July 06 2007 04:01 Duffybeer wrote: Lol Iris has been good, yeah only his TvT and his TvZ againts Savior otherwise this was pathetic play by Stork. This series deos not prove anything at all, and it definitely deos not prove Iris is better then Stork. About GGplay, you guys seriously underestimate his TvZ. He raped Casy, Nada, Hwasin with a ferocity unseen since Savior's domination era. Yeah Flash's TvZ is good, but he is going to have a hell of a time againts GGplay, who's on fire right now.
Also perhaps Stork did not want to be in both OSL and MSL finals because it would be too much for him? Just a thought to consider.
On July 06 2007 04:01 Duffybeer wrote: Lol @ "Iris has been good", yeah only his TvT and his TvZ againts Savior otherwise this was pathetic play by Stork. This series deos not prove anything at all, and it definitely deos not prove Iris is better then Stork. About GGplay, you guys seriously underestimate his TvZ. He raped Casy, Nada, Hwasin with a ferocity unseen since Savior's domination era. Yeah Flash's TvZ is good, but he is going to have a hell of a time againts GGplay, who's on fire right now.
Also perhaps Stork did not want to be in both OSL and MSL finals because it would be too much for him? Just a thought to consider.
On July 06 2007 04:01 Duffybeer wrote:Also perhaps Stork did not want to be in both OSL and MSL finals because it would be too much for him? Just a thought to consider.
Don\'t ever consider something as stupid as a progamer giving up a match \"on purpose\". It will save you a lot of ridicule later down the road.
Iris just beat two of the top three powerranked players. His gonna win this osl No way hes gonna lose a TvT. Remember his games for third place vs casy last osl? Thats what the final will look like vs flash. Dont see how GGplay would be a problem either. How many terrans are even against savior in televised games? Iris TvZ is godly too.
Goddamnit where is Manablue. I need a fellow Protoss and Stork fan to get a comfort hug from.
Jokes aside, I'm extremely disappointed. Stork didn't adapt, didn't play what I expected of him despite being the favourite. While as I said before the game (Oh jesus am I eating those words through my eye sockets now) Iris is dreadfully underrated, but to kick out Stork with perfect builds in 3:0 fashion,I would have never expected and has completely stumped me. No mistakes about that. It's taken the wind out of my Pro-Stork saqils, thats for sure.
DAMNIT. No more Protoss OSL+MSL.
You better take this OSL with both hands and wrench it away from everyone else Iris. I suspect GGPlay will dispose of flash with ease and beat you in the final though.
I didn't say he wanted to completely, and I just said that perhaps but maybe its not completely true, so you don't have to flame me idiot, I never said that Stork lost on purpose, I was saying "MAYBE" he had.
Yeah Nada tied with GGplay but i GGplay plays againts Flash like he did vs Casy or in that one game vs Nada, then you know what I am talking about Sebasta.
And Iris's TvZ is not really godly, he's only good againts the likes of Savior but againts other zergs, I don't think he stands a chance really. Remember that game vs that noob zerg Odin?
On July 06 2007 04:09 DrainX wrote: Iris just beat two of the top three powerranked players. His gonna win this osl No way hes gonna lose a TvT. Remember his games for third place vs casy last osl? Thats what the final will look like vs flash. Dont see how GGplay would be a problem either. How many terrans are even against savior in televised games? Iris TvZ is godly too.
If Iris plays like what he has done in the games vs Savior this season, a in-shape GGPlay will rape him 3-0 definitely
On July 06 2007 04:10 Duffybeer wrote: I didn't say he wanted to completely, and I just said that perhaps but maybe its not completely true, so you don't have to flame me idiot, I never said that Stork lost on purpose, I was saying "MAYBE" he had.
thats still pretty stupid. No progamer thinks of "maybe" losing.
Yess! This is good for Flash actually. Stork is a much better player than Iris. Cant wait to see Flash rape him in the final Iris winning OSL would be like GF winning it so it's not going to happen. He's not a champ Im afraid.
On July 06 2007 04:10 Duffybeer wrote: I didn't say he wanted to completely, and I just said that perhaps but maybe its not completely true, so you don't have to flame me idiot, I never said that Stork lost on purpose, I was saying "MAYBE" he had.
thats still pretty stupid. No progamer thinks of "maybe" losing.
Or maybe giving up the $40,000 prize money for winning or whatever it is. I don't think so. Why practice all that time to win and just ~maybe~ give up when you're in the ro4...
On July 06 2007 04:11 Ace wrote: Didn't scout? Dude, Iris fucking never LET Stork into his base.
Iris was amazing the entire set really, brought his top game, never flinched. Its hard for me to say Stork was no match for Iris, but... he wasn't, not in this Bo5, maybe next time.
huh? am i missing something i thought msl was pvp final cant be more protoss than that!
I was buying into the "Protoss will win both" theory.
Also, how can people expect flash to 'rape' Iris in a final? 0:2 in Televised TvT Flash, who hasn't even won versus GGplay's ZvT yet, beating Iris in a TvT final when Iris has performed upsets both Savior and Stork? I don't buy into that. Iris seems to be bringing the goods to the finals when it counts. He took Savior to five games when a lot of people said he wouldn't take a game in the last OSL, and he just annihilated Stork.
At this rate I guess it's GGplay that's going to be sitting across from Iris in the final. He's another chronically underrated player, and they're doing pretty well thus far this OSL.
On July 06 2007 04:11 Ace wrote: Didn't scout? Dude, Iris fucking never LET Stork into his base.
in the 3rd match iris could not scout either and he won so you have to give him credit even if it's only for the bo decision. (not to mention the execution and timing)
On July 06 2007 04:09 DrainX wrote: Iris just beat two of the top three powerranked players. His gonna win this osl No way hes gonna lose a TvT. Remember his games for third place vs casy last osl? Thats what the final will look like vs flash. Dont see how GGplay would be a problem either. How many terrans are even against savior in televised games? Iris TvZ is godly too.
While Power Rank has its merits, it needs to be updated, and it isnt based off of 1 league alone. While its cool to see how much DJ Etter values your favorite player(s) Its not like kespa rankings or anything (which arent always too fair either).
While usually they intertwine, there still is a difference between a top rate player, and a DJEtter valued player.
Everyone has their own oppinion, and its important that we make sure that opinions are opinions.
While last month when the power ranks were new I wouldent argue with you. But if you check now for Savior it says that If there was a savior slump, its over now.
I think the Power Rank is going to change drastically.
On July 06 2007 04:09 DrainX wrote: Iris just beat two of the top three powerranked players. His gonna win this osl No way hes gonna lose a TvT. Remember his games for third place vs casy last osl? Thats what the final will look like vs flash. Dont see how GGplay would be a problem either. How many terrans are even against savior in televised games? Iris TvZ is godly too.
If Iris plays like what he has done in the games vs Savior this season, a in-shape GGPlay will rape him 3-0 definitely
There will not be another 3-0, IF the finals will be GGPlay vs Iris, it may turn out as the best Bo5 set since this lame season Ro4 sets started, they were all quite disappointing.
If Flash makes the finals I give him like 20% or less to beat Iris. I really doubt a 14 year old kid is going to beat the veteran Iris who also has the best TvT in the world in the OSL finals. The kid is gonna crap his pants and even if he doesn't it won't matter.
If GGPlay wins then I think it will be really close, especially since GGPlay only has to practice for terran from now on, albeit terrans with different styles. Although Iris looks like he really really wants this title but I'm sure GGPlay does as well, he just hardly ever shows emotion.
GGPlay vs Flash I'm going to say is 50-50 but that's only because I have high regards for Flash right now so I hope he proves something even if he loses.
On July 06 2007 04:09 DrainX wrote: Iris just beat two of the top three powerranked players. His gonna win this osl No way hes gonna lose a TvT. Remember his games for third place vs casy last osl? Thats what the final will look like vs flash. Dont see how GGplay would be a problem either. How many terrans are even against savior in televised games? Iris TvZ is godly too.
While Power Rank has its merits, it needs to be updated, and it isnt based off of 1 league alone. While its cool to see how much DJ Etter values your favorite player(s) Its not like kespa rankings or anything (which arent always too fair either).
While usually they intertwine, there still is a difference between a top rate player, and a DJEtter valued player.
Everyone has their own oppinion, and its important that we make sure that opinions are opinions.
While last month when the power ranks were new I wouldent argue with you. But if you check now for Savior it says that If there was a savior slump, its over now.
I think the Power Rank is going to change drastically.
Yeah it propebly will change now but one of the reasons that it will is iris beating savior even if savior played shit in the first and third game ._. I could have just said "two players who before the tournament were considered propable finalists"
My experience is that Iris always does well when the stakes are high. In last osl iris was considered a good TvTer but not much else by most people here. No one expeted him to win his quarterfinal but he did, then got savior to the fifth game in the semifinal that he might aswell have won. After that he raped Casy 3-0. I bet he would have won over nada in the final if he had a chance.
Maybe Iris doesnt show much in the offseason but I think its a good idea to fear him in the finals if he reaches them. And its about time he gets a title. He deserves it.
On July 06 2007 04:09 DrainX wrote: Iris just beat two of the top three powerranked players. His gonna win this osl No way hes gonna lose a TvT. Remember his games for third place vs casy last osl? Thats what the final will look like vs flash. Dont see how GGplay would be a problem either. How many terrans are even against savior in televised games? Iris TvZ is godly too.
While Power Rank has its merits, it needs to be updated, and it isnt based off of 1 league alone. While its cool to see how much DJ Etter values your favorite player(s) Its not like kespa rankings or anything (which arent always too fair either).
While usually they intertwine, there still is a difference between a top rate player, and a DJEtter valued player.
Everyone has their own oppinion, and its important that we make sure that opinions are opinions.
While last month when the power ranks were new I wouldent argue with you. But if you check now for Savior it says that If there was a savior slump, its over now.
I think the Power Rank is going to change drastically.
Yeah it propebly will change now but one of the reasons that it will is iris beating savior even if savior played shit in the first and third game ._. I could have just said "two players who before the tournament were considered propable finalists"
My experience is that Iris always does well when the stakes are high. In last osl iris was considered a good TvTer but not much else by most people here. No one expeted him to win his quarterfinal but he did, then got savior to the fifth game in the semifinal that he might aswell have won. After that he raped Casy 3-0. I bet he would have won over nada in the final if he had a chance.
Maybe Iris doesnt show much in the offseason but I think its a good idea to fear him in the finals if he reaches them. And its about time he gets a title. He deserves it.
He so does! deserves a title shot anyway, I hope it'll be vs GGPlay, I'd hate to see a PvP and TvT finals :/
On July 06 2007 03:52 HnR)hT wrote: 3 build order wins. How unlucky =(
protoss players win pvt with build orders all the time, 2 fact terran is much harder to execute than any of the number of ways a protoss can gain an advantage through builds against terran.
So I went to bed at 8:30 PM last night with the goal of waking up at 2:30 AM to watch the games and then writing up the PR immediately after the broadcast (I was very tired and wanted to watch the games live, anyway). I set two alarms.
I woke up a little after 4:30 AM. Both alarms had been turned off. I have no memory of waking up at any point before 4:30 or turning off any alarms. My roommate didn't stay here tonight, so he didn't do it; I must have been more tired than I realized.
So now here I am, lurking this thread until my man yakii comes and saves the day.
On July 06 2007 05:00 DJEtterStyle wrote: So I went to bed at 8:30 PM last night with the goal of waking up at 2:30 AM to watch the games and then writing up the PR immediately after the broadcast (I was very tired and wanted to watch the games live, anyway). I set two alarms.
I woke up a little after 4:30 AM. Both alarms had been turned off. I have no memory of waking up at any point before 4:30 or turning off any alarms. My roommate didn't stay here tonight, so he didn't do it; I must have been more tired than I realized.
So now here I am, lurking this thread until my man yakii comes and saves the day.
They usualy have reruns of games like these on the same channel 2-3 hours later if you cant reach yakii. I hope you dont let savior drop too far down the PR ;e Remember his games vs Stork and the 2nd game vs Iris... Hes not as consistant now but he can still shine.
On July 06 2007 05:00 DJEtterStyle wrote: So I went to bed at 8:30 PM last night with the goal of waking up at 2:30 AM to watch the games and then writing up the PR immediately after the broadcast (I was very tired and wanted to watch the games live, anyway). I set two alarms.
I woke up a little after 4:30 AM. Both alarms had been turned off. I have no memory of waking up at any point before 4:30 or turning off any alarms. My roommate didn't stay here tonight, so he didn't do it; I must have been more tired than I realized.
So now here I am, lurking this thread until my man yakii comes and saves the day.
I don't know Korean, but I'm 99% sure these are the links from dcinside: Game1 Part1Part2 Game2 Part1Part2 Game3
On July 06 2007 05:00 DJEtterStyle wrote: So I went to bed at 8:30 PM last night with the goal of waking up at 2:30 AM to watch the games and then writing up the PR immediately after the broadcast (I was very tired and wanted to watch the games live, anyway). I set two alarms.
I woke up a little after 4:30 AM. Both alarms had been turned off. I have no memory of waking up at any point before 4:30 or turning off any alarms. My roommate didn't stay here tonight, so he didn't do it; I must have been more tired than I realized.
So now here I am, lurking this thread until my man yakii comes and saves the day.
I don't know Korean, but I'm 99% sure these are the links from dcinside: Game1 Part1Part2 Game2 Part1Part2 Game3
On July 06 2007 04:09 DrainX wrote: Iris just beat two of the top three powerranked players. His gonna win this osl No way hes gonna lose a TvT. Remember his games for third place vs casy last osl? Thats what the final will look like vs flash. Dont see how GGplay would be a problem either. How many terrans are even against savior in televised games? Iris TvZ is godly too.
While Power Rank has its merits, it needs to be updated, and it isnt based off of 1 league alone. While its cool to see how much DJ Etter values your favorite player(s) Its not like kespa rankings or anything (which arent always too fair either).
While usually they intertwine, there still is a difference between a top rate player, and a DJEtter valued player.
Everyone has their own oppinion, and its important that we make sure that opinions are opinions.
While last month when the power ranks were new I wouldent argue with you. But if you check now for Savior it says that If there was a savior slump, its over now.
I think the Power Rank is going to change drastically.
Yeah it propebly will change now but one of the reasons that it will is iris beating savior even if savior played shit in the first and third game ._. I could have just said "two players who before the tournament were considered propable finalists"
My experience is that Iris always does well when the stakes are high. In last osl iris was considered a good TvTer but not much else by most people here. No one expeted him to win his quarterfinal but he did, then got savior to the fifth game in the semifinal that he might aswell have won. After that he raped Casy 3-0. I bet he would have won over nada in the final if he had a chance.
Maybe Iris doesnt show much in the offseason but I think its a good idea to fear him in the finals if he reaches them. And its about time he gets a title. He deserves it.
He so does! deserves a title shot anyway, I hope it'll be vs GGPlay, I'd hate to see a PvP and TvT finals :/
Well, Iris seldom makes his TvT boring. It's usually over really fast. If it were Xellos vs. Goodfriend... now that would require stamina.
On July 06 2007 05:00 DJEtterStyle wrote: So I went to bed at 8:30 PM last night with the goal of waking up at 2:30 AM to watch the games and then writing up the PR immediately after the broadcast (I was very tired and wanted to watch the games live, anyway). I set two alarms.
I woke up a little after 4:30 AM. Both alarms had been turned off. I have no memory of waking up at any point before 4:30 or turning off any alarms. My roommate didn't stay here tonight, so he didn't do it; I must have been more tired than I realized.
So now here I am, lurking this thread until my man yakii comes and saves the day.
Happens to me alot. I use three alarms(alarm clocks and my cell) I swear i turned them on but i wake up not remembering an alarm even rang. Surprised at results. Feel bad for stork abit but Iris deserves it too. Looking forward for flash vs. ggplay now.
Not to derail the thread with more alarm clock chatter, but...
I usually set my cell phone alarm and stick it next to my bed (which would be easy enough to turn off in my sleep, I guess), but then I have an alarm clock that I purposefully stick across the room so that I have to get out of bed. That's the one that's broken. ahahah
GGplay will be the winner for sure. He probably has the best ZvTin the world right now. And with only T's left, it can only be him. However I do expect the games to be good and close like 3-2 both of them.
On July 06 2007 04:09 DrainX wrote: Iris just beat two of the top three powerranked players. His gonna win this osl No way hes gonna lose a TvT. Remember his games for third place vs casy last osl? Thats what the final will look like vs flash. Dont see how GGplay would be a problem either. How many terrans are even against savior in televised games? Iris TvZ is godly too.
While Power Rank has its merits, it needs to be updated, and it isnt based off of 1 league alone. While its cool to see how much DJ Etter values your favorite player(s) Its not like kespa rankings or anything (which arent always too fair either).
While usually they intertwine, there still is a difference between a top rate player, and a DJEtter valued player.
Everyone has their own oppinion, and its important that we make sure that opinions are opinions.
While last month when the power ranks were new I wouldent argue with you. But if you check now for Savior it says that If there was a savior slump, its over now.
I think the Power Rank is going to change drastically.
I'd say DJEtter has a better idea of who's better than who than most people on this forum, seeing as how he's been consistently in the top ~1-5 of Liquibet. Sure opinions are opinions; but his opinions match results better that most others.
On July 06 2007 04:10 Duffybeer wrote: I didn't say he wanted to completely, and I just said that perhaps but maybe its not completely true, so you don't have to flame me idiot, I never said that Stork lost on purpose, I was saying "MAYBE" he had.
Yeah Nada tied with GGplay but i GGplay plays againts Flash like he did vs Casy or in that one game vs Nada, then you know what I am talking about Sebasta.
And Iris's TvZ is not really godly, he's only good againts the likes of Savior but againts other zergs, I don't think he stands a chance really. Remember that game vs that noob zerg Odin?
..you are an idiot. No progamer ever considers losing on purpose. No progamer MAYBE considers losing on purpose.
Odin is not noob, he has good ZvT. Just because Iris lost to him once doesn't mean shit.
On July 06 2007 07:07 Hot_Bid wrote: im so happy iris won
i think iris really believed he was going to win Shinhan3 and was kind of on a mission this time
what does it say to savior if iris eliminates him and then immediately gets raped by stork, someone savior beat in the msl?
now i'm not as mad at iris for beating savior, still a little because the OSL won't be as entertaining, but not as much
here's to hoping he wins the whole thing against GGPlay
If sAviOr tells Iris the truth about what's going in his mind when he faced terran in his dominating era and Iris successfully manages to fully understand what sAviOr is talking about... he MAY beat a Zerg like GGPlay.
Well, I'd say i don't see any chance for Flash to get into the final...
i didnt expect iris to beat down stork like this. if that's the case, i switch my osl champion vote from ggplay to iris. no way iris is going to lose either his ace MU (vT) or his recent strong form in vZ.
GGPlay is rediculously good, i wouldn't be surprized at all to see him get to the finals and have some epic games vs IriS. If it was GGPlay vs Stork, stork woulda been 3-0'd because he is so shitty vs top Zergs. GGPlay vs IriS (Hoping)
Just noticed that the map to be payed twice on for the GGplay-Flash semifinal is Monghwan. This is pretty significant. If it was Monty Hall twice you could just about write off GGPlay but I think Monghwan is at least balanced and could suit GGplay pretty well. I hope that GGplay's bunker/rush defence is good because I think we're going to see lots of cheese from Flash.
On July 06 2007 03:48 Pyrthas wrote: I don't quite understand why Stork insisted on fe again in the third game. Iris is so aggressive. Oh well.
Stork prepared this build before the series and progaming practice shows us (Savior-Busu f.e.) players hardly change their pre-match strategy during the match.
You're probably right. And then there's the whole mind game... well he was aggressive two games in a row, surely he'll build differently this time. Lemme scout to be sure... bad scouting... time to guess.
1. Iris played a strong first game, cliff drop ended the game.
2. Stork played fast pressure expo second game, which Iris had fully prepared for by walling first, then scouting the expo, finally mines reduce the already small protoss forces to cinders.
3. Last game Iris really got away with very good positioning.
All in all I'd say Iris's preparation showed through. People need to stop playing 2 finals at once, and Monghwan can use the slight editing.
I really hope it's GGPlay vs Iris in the finals, as they are likely the two most underrated players right now. GGPlay will just have to survive the first 7-8 minutes of the games vs Flash and then run all over him. I'll say it again though - I'm expecting quite a bit of cheese out of Flash.
I was actually thinking stork would reach the finals vs GGPlay here, and we'd see FBH vs Bisu in the MSL, but oh well. Didn't need those 10 liquibet points anyhow.
On a note more related to the series, I don't buy that whole 'he couldn't scout' talk. Stork saw all he needed to see. He saw there was no fast expo, and he wasn't being allowed into Iris' base. At that point, how can you not realize what was coming, especially in the third game after being timing pushed twice already? The only other real alternative to 2 fact would be a quick bio rush, which is even more reason to play safer.
Look, everyone knows Iris is very aggressive and exceptionally good at timing - everyone. With that in mind, even the game on monty was risky of stork. I think what it comes down to is that toss need to adapt again. We've seen quite a few toss players having trouble lately when going with early fast expos. Kang Min looked extremely strong a month ago, but he's lost a lot of short games since then. With recent games like oov vs chalrenge and this series, I think the toss 1gate FE is in serious jeopardy. Bisu has been one of the few that is consistently able to pull it off, but there are still holes that players like Iris can and will exploit.
On July 06 2007 16:57 GTR-2-Go wrote: Stop counting out both GGPlay and Flash guys, both players have godly end-games.
Watch Flash's TvZ's in the Proleague, such as the game vs Odin.
I was just going to say have any of you watched Flash's game against Odin? Saying all he does is cheese and he has no end game is just horribly misinformed. Obviously I'd say GGPlay has the better endgame but Flash has cheesed what, 4 times out of 18 games? A lot of you people just have no idea what the hell you're talking about. I'd still say it's 50-50 or give the slight edge to GGPlay but thinking Flash is going to cheese every game is dumb.
WTF Iris please! Please! How could you mess up with my perception so far? OMG! If this is a lucky streak you better win the finals. I hope you face Flash, so I will finally accept to watch a TvT. KTF and CJ are my favourite teams, so I will end up winning either way.
On July 06 2007 16:57 GTR-2-Go wrote: Stop counting out both GGPlay and Flash guys, both players have godly end-games.
Watch Flash's TvZ's in the Proleague, such as the game vs Odin.
I was just going to say have any of you watched Flash's game against Odin? Saying all he does is cheese and he has no end game is just horribly misinformed. Obviously I'd say GGPlay has the better endgame but Flash has cheesed what, 4 times out of 18 games? A lot of you people just have no idea what the hell you're talking about. I'd still say it's 50-50 or give the slight edge to GGPlay but thinking Flash is going to cheese every game is dumb.
I've been saying he's going to cheese because it seems to be the obvious thing to do in his situation. He's proven he can pull it off, and if GGPlay has a weak point, it's certainly his early game. Letting GGPlay get 10-15 mins into the game without being heavily weakened just doesn't seem like the smart thing to do. His late game is at the point where it's utterly scary.
And while Flash is 4-0 in TvZ in PL, I can't say I've been too impressed with his late game in any of them. I remember his game vs clon as being one of the worst I've watched this season (and this is 0-9 ZvT clon we're talking about). Odin is not exactly the best zerg player himself, luxury went down to all-in cheese, and jaedong played uncharacteristically bad that game and lost pretty early.
I understand what you're saying but Flash can easily win middle game in like 10 minutes with good timing attacks. Odin is a pretty good zerg too, obviously not as good as GGPlay but Flash does supposedly have a great TvZ. I agree that if it gets too late into the game GGPlay will have the advantage but I think Flash can win without cheesing. Flash also said in his interview after beating Bisu he wanted to show the fans a long game the 3rd set with good mechanics so I think he has plenty of confidence in himself.
On July 06 2007 16:57 GTR-2-Go wrote: Stop counting out both GGPlay and Flash guys, both players have godly end-games.
Watch Flash's TvZ's in the Proleague, such as the game vs Odin.
I was just going to say have any of you watched Flash's game against Odin? Saying all he does is cheese and he has no end game is just horribly misinformed. Obviously I'd say GGPlay has the better endgame but Flash has cheesed what, 4 times out of 18 games? A lot of you people just have no idea what the hell you're talking about. I'd still say it's 50-50 or give the slight edge to GGPlay but thinking Flash is going to cheese every game is dumb.
I've been saying he's going to cheese because it seems to be the obvious thing to do in his situation. He's proven he can pull it off, and if GGPlay has a weak point, it's certainly his early game. Letting GGPlay get 10-15 mins into the game without being heavily weakened just doesn't seem like the smart thing to do. His late game is at the point where it's utterly scary.
And while Flash is 4-0 in TvZ in PL, I can't say I've been too impressed with his late game in any of them. I remember his game vs clon as being one of the worst I've watched this season (and this is 0-9 ZvT clon we're talking about). Odin is not exactly the best zerg player himself, luxury went down to all-in cheese, and jaedong played uncharacteristically bad that game and lost pretty early.
So basically what you're saying is that you have no idea how good his late game is?
On July 06 2007 20:42 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: So basically what you're saying is that you have no idea how good his late game is?
No, but it's pretty obvious that he's a new player and as such we don't have a whole library of games to go by. I'm saying that we have clear examples of GGPlay tearing it up late game in this matchup, but the little we have to see as far as Flash goes isn't exactly spectacular, and he even admitted that in his last interview.
I'm not really sure then, but it doesn't matter because neither of them will beat Iris. You think he won series' against Savior and Stork to lose to one of them? I think not. That would be the worlds greatest injustice.
On July 07 2007 13:38 ManaBlue wrote: I'm not really sure then, but it doesn't matter because neither of them will beat Iris. You think he won series' against Savior and Stork to lose to one of them? I think not. That would be the worlds greatest injustice.
EPT
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. GG
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