On October 31 2018 00:23 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: I've never seen anything like game 4. That was defiler rush on 10 mining drones with Effort constantly reassigning them from minerals to gas and back. Ridiculous.
Nice! Didnt spot that. Makes it even more apparant why Flash wasnt ready for it since he didnt scan Efforts main once.
I understand why certain progamers are hated but Why would you want to hate Flash? If it's for his domination in BW I don't think that's fair, I believe someone who has achieved a high level of skill in the game we love should not be hated but admired. I mean, he got to be the best and most feared by sheer talent and hardwork, not by showing off ass and boobs.
Or is there something else that I'm missing?
I think to many he just unrelateable because he is such a machine. Most dramas have ups and downs and so do people and that is what we relate to. Flash however is just this machine monster, he is like the villain because he is so inhuman and something the players we can relate to have to overcome. This does not really seem to be the case in Korea though, so many people love him, probably because he engages much more with the Korean fans.
On October 31 2018 03:01 Zaibakk wrote: After a rewatch of this amazing series, I want just to point out some of the incredible mind games between those two legends that I missed on live, focusing on game 5:
@1:53: Effort's drone scout the gas at Flash's base. He now knows that Flash is going for his 111 build.
@2:20: Flash put off 2 scv from gas as usual, as he always done in his 111 version for making a fast CC after putting down the factory. So right now on Effort's eyes Flash is making his standard 111 with fast CC. After that Effort retreat the drone, because the first Flash's marine it's about to coming out.
@3:07: Flash scouts the 2 hatch lair from Effort. Then he decided for an incredible change of strategy. After faking out the standard 111 with fast CC, and MOST PROBABLY seeing the super fast lair of Effort (it's impossible to say if it saw it with the SCV or not, but I think he saw because after that he did not scout the main again), Flash decided to entirely SKIP the CC and go for a very fast starport. This has many reasons: - Flash knows from game 1 and 3 that Effort will put a massive speedling aggression to him, cutting his economy badly (he even lost game 1 and take much damage in game 3). So in any case he would not gain much economy from the second base with this kind of aggression from Effort. Closing his entrance, he is completely safe from speedling aggression, and he is making those lings really a waste of money from Effort. - Knowing that, he is also pretty sure that Effort should not gain a big economic edge on him, because he should spend many of his money in zerglings, leaving the drone count lower. - With a pretty low eco on both side, Flash he is confident that with a surprise attack with super fast wraiths, mass speedvults, and even a dropvults+cloakedwraiths+mines should destroy the already low economy of Effort, while defending from any muta harrass with cloakedwraiths+rines+turrets. He then plan to expand and winning the game easily. Flash plan his amazing and shows his incredible capacity of fast adapting to Effort's new way of aggroing the 111+fast CC in early game.
@3:30: Effort move his bottom right overlord in the direction of Flash's natural. He then saw the there were not CC, while it should be already started at that time. He figured out instantly that Flash is going to make a fast harrass playstyle with 1 base only. He also decided for an incredible change of strategy. Effort immediately cancel his lair and put down his hydralisk den. The speed at which he changed his mind is incredible. With a lot of hydras he can: - Put early aggression on Flash, harrassing him and forcing more defences, while delaying his second CC; - Defend himself from any vults+wraits harrass (his following defence was amazingly well executed), while macroing a lot. - Outmacroing Flash with a third base, and overcome him in midgame with a fast ultraling style. This is cool also because bio upgrades should come very late.
So, again, an amazing series to watch and rewatch! I hope many other details will be discovered. Those games should be matter of studies for the future generations :D
This is really nice detailed analysis. Please give us more!
Game 3 loss was very regrettable for Effort. Flash pop count advantage doesn't mean much, Effort has 4 gas running with full drone and defiler tech. He could hold any Flash aggressiveness with easy. Not sure how he forgot to resend new lukers into the dark swarm.
I understand why certain progamers are hated but Why would you want to hate Flash? If it's for his domination in BW I don't think that's fair, I believe someone who has achieved a high level of skill in the game we love should not be hated but admired. I mean, he got to be the best and most feared by sheer talent and hardwork, not by showing off ass and boobs.
Or is there something else that I'm missing?
I think to many he just unrelateable because he is such a machine. Most dramas have ups and downs and so do people and that is what we relate to. Flash however is just this machine monster, he is like the villain because he is so inhuman and something the players we can relate to have to overcome. This does not really seem to be the case in Korea though, so many people love him, probably because he engages much more with the Korean fans.
I don't understand, you have other people who had completely dominated their sport in the Western world (in their prime) like Michael Schumacher, Roger Federer/ Rafael Nadal, Michael Phelps, Tiger Woods, Usain Bolt, Messi/Ronaldo etc.
While writing up this list I think that it may come to the team whose side we are on, or in our case, race.
On October 31 2018 23:33 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: We need someone on TL with amazing analytical skills to do a thorough analysis of the series. At least games 4 and 5!
I heard that Ty2 is might be doing a write-up, yay Ty2!
On November 01 2018 02:14 ortseam wrote: Ty2 has been using that 2 hatch defiler a lot and has beaten every game I've seen (Miso included) with it, should be interesting.
On November 01 2018 02:14 ortseam wrote: Ty2 has been using that 2 hatch defiler a lot and has beaten every game I've seen (Miso included) with it, should be interesting.
It's still an all-in build, because if the Terran defends correctly it's gg...but it definitely gives the Zerg one more viable option in the midgame to keep T's on their toes (similar to ZvP 3 hatch hydra etc). I don't think it is something you want to be doing every game though.
I rewatched game 4 and saw Effort had only 10 Drones out mining minerals and he had Dark Swarm at the 10 minute mark.
I think it time to start calling Effort god himself. I don’t really think anyone can take out an in form Effort. He already used to be the best ZvP player against Bisu. And now he takes out Flash on stage offline. I definitely think he deserves #1 on the next power rankings (above Flash).
On November 02 2018 06:13 Alpha-NP- wrote: I rewatched game 4 and saw Effort had only 10 Drones out mining minerals and he had Dark Swarm at the 10 minute mark.
I think it time to start calling Effort god himself. I don’t really think anyone can take out an in form Effort. He already used to be the best ZvP player against Bisu. And now he takes out Flash on stage offline. I definitely think he deserves #1 on the next power rankings (above Flash).
While I do believe that an in-form EffOrt is art incarnate, I personally don't think he is the kind of player that dominates for an extended duration of time to accomplish stuff like back-to-back championships. Flash didn't get called god because he was artful (while he was in his own way), Flash earned the title of god through proving his domination time and time again. Nobody in their right minds called fOrGG a god for winning back-to-back best-of-five series versus both Flash and Jaedong, the one time he was on terrific form.
The time-frame given to EffOrt before he begins his army obligations could be used to prove me wrong that EffOrt is the kind of guy who wins beautifully, rather than winning the most. Until then, I don't think it is correct to call him god based on the criteria that Flash needed to fulfill in order for him to get the same title.
EffOrt has done what only three people (Last, SnOw, and EffOrt himself) in the last two years or so, defeat Flash within a best-of-five setting in a tournament officially organized by AfreecaTV, the hub of modern day competitive Brood War. He has successfully completed a redemption arc versus the greatest foe imaginable by current day standards with his signature playstyle very few, if not any, can mimic. That is to be praised, but I believe what you are doing is falling for the flaw of the law of transitive properties. GARIMTO was not the best player of 2001, just because he defeated BoxeR in the finals to prevent him from winning his third successive OGN StarLeague in a row. Bisu did not automatically inherit all of sAviOr's legacy by simply defeating him at the pinnacle of his career. EffOrt did not become god when he defeated Flash at the peak of his powers in 2010, in fact, take away his career defining moment, he spent the vast majority of that season struggling to escape of the round of 16. EffOrt's true test of character begins now. He has only repeated what he was already capable of in 2010. Once he overcomes his limitations we can truly call him god, but not now, in my opinion.
On November 02 2018 06:13 Alpha-NP- wrote: I rewatched game 4 and saw Effort had only 10 Drones out mining minerals and he had Dark Swarm at the 10 minute mark.
I think it time to start calling Effort god himself. I don’t really think anyone can take out an in form Effort. He already used to be the best ZvP player against Bisu. And now he takes out Flash on stage offline. I definitely think he deserves #1 on the next power rankings (above Flash).
While I do believe that an in-form EffOrt is art incarnate, I personally don't think he is the kind of player that dominates for an extended duration of time to accomplish stuff like back-to-back championships. Flash didn't get called god because he was artful (while he was in his own way), Flash earned the title of god through proving his domination time and time again. Nobody in their right minds called fOrGG a god for winning back-to-back best-of-five series versus both Flash and Jaedong, the one time he was on terrific form.
The time-frame given to EffOrt before he begins his army obligations could be used to prove me wrong that EffOrt is the kind of guy who wins beautifully, rather than winning the most. Until then, I don't think it is correct to call him god based on the criteria that Flash needed to fulfill in order for him to get the same title.
EffOrt has done what only three people (Last, SnOw, and EffOrt himself) in the last two years or so, defeat Flash within a best-of-five setting in a tournament officially organized by AfreecaTV, the hub of modern day competitive Brood War. He has successfully completed a redemption arc versus the greatest foe imaginable by current day standards with his signature playstyle very few, if not any, can mimic. That is to be praised, but I believe what you are doing is falling for the flaw of the law of transitive properties. GARIMTO was not the best player of 2001, just because he defeated BoxeR in the finals to prevent him from winning his third successive OGN StarLeague in a row. Bisu did not automatically inherit all of sAviOr's legacy by simply defeating him at the pinnacle of his career. EffOrt did not become god when he defeated Flash at the peak of his powers in 2010, in fact, take away his career defining moment, he spent the vast majority of that season struggling to escape of the round of 16. EffOrt's true test of character begins now. He has only repeated what he was already capable of in 2010. Once he overcomes his limitations we can truly call him god, but not now, in my opinion.
People really overreacting to efforts win and the emotionality of it lol. Efforts a good player and he caught flash on a horrible day for him. I want to see effort reach bonjwa status and start winning everything. Then he will be final boss of Zerg in sc.
On November 02 2018 06:13 Alpha-NP- wrote: I rewatched game 4 and saw Effort had only 10 Drones out mining minerals and he had Dark Swarm at the 10 minute mark.
I think it time to start calling Effort god himself. I don’t really think anyone can take out an in form Effort. He already used to be the best ZvP player against Bisu. And now he takes out Flash on stage offline. I definitely think he deserves #1 on the next power rankings (above Flash).
While I do believe that an in-form EffOrt is art incarnate, I personally don't think he is the kind of player that dominates for an extended duration of time to accomplish stuff like back-to-back championships. Flash didn't get called god because he was artful (while he was in his own way), Flash earned the title of god through proving his domination time and time again. Nobody in their right minds called fOrGG a god for winning back-to-back best-of-five series versus both Flash and Jaedong, the one time he was on terrific form.
The time-frame given to EffOrt before he begins his army obligations could be used to prove me wrong that EffOrt is the kind of guy who wins beautifully, rather than winning the most. Until then, I don't think it is correct to call him god based on the criteria that Flash needed to fulfill in order for him to get the same title.
EffOrt has done what only three people (Last, SnOw, and EffOrt himself) in the last two years or so, defeat Flash within a best-of-five setting in a tournament officially organized by AfreecaTV, the hub of modern day competitive Brood War. He has successfully completed a redemption arc versus the greatest foe imaginable by current day standards with his signature playstyle very few, if not any, can mimic. That is to be praised, but I believe what you are doing is falling for the flaw of the law of transitive properties. GARIMTO was not the best player of 2001, just because he defeated BoxeR in the finals to prevent him from winning his third successive OGN StarLeague in a row. Bisu did not automatically inherit all of sAviOr's legacy by simply defeating him at the pinnacle of his career. EffOrt did not become god when he defeated Flash at the peak of his powers in 2010, in fact, take away his career defining moment, he spent the vast majority of that season struggling to escape of the round of 16. EffOrt's true test of character begins now. He has only repeated what he was already capable of in 2010. Once he overcomes his limitations we can truly call him god, but not now, in my opinion.
he is a god among zerg, you happy now?
Is this result based, or opinion based? I don't wish to engage in another discussion where I have no choice but to take your word on the matter.
Letmelose has made very good points. I'm very happy that Effort won but I think calling Effort god is both premature and unfair to Flash's achievements.
Would the progamers vote 13-0 o 11-2 whenever Effort is facing anyone like they had done with Flash? I don't think so. Would BigFan say that Effort going anything less that 3-1 is out of the question? I think not yet.
EPT
