On May 25 2007 23:24 LastRomantic wrote: What really confuses me is how he chose to do it on a dual-gas map. Those are generally Zerg favoring over Terran, yes?
The natural doesn't have a gas, so basically it's the same. Besides, more gas also helps the Terran (= more vessels). I think the map favors Terran though... the center is pretty narrow and it seems like further gas expansions are not so easy to defend. Only speculation though, as I've never seen a game on that map before (same goes for Loki).
On May 26 2007 00:55 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: I'm curious now - Does anyone know the last time someone used a race other than their main race in a starleague?
Junwi used terran vs kingdom (mycube) because he said zerg was just too hard on paradoxx.
On May 26 2007 01:44 Plexa wrote: Will savior use terran for the whole group stage? or just against gorush
Thats what I'm wondering, I mean he probablly cant play Terran only against GoRush then switch back to Zerg vs the other two, but then if he's faced vs GoRush again in Loser's Final can he switch back to Terran once again? sounds too odd to be accepted as legal :-)
But if it is actually like that, I guess every progamer should announce they will always play Terran against Silver :-) even if they never played a single Terran game in their life.
On May 18 2007 06:55 joohyunee wrote: Ma Jae Yoon notified KeSPA that he will be playing terran against zerg. If he plays Park Tae Min (GoRush) in the final match he will play terran again.
On May 26 2007 01:52 pachi wrote: I remember Joyo was using protoss instead Terran in that popular game against Boxer, I don't know why and the background of it though.
[dak]joyo (bluek) was random player i think, maybe i am mistaken.
On May 26 2007 02:00 intelinside wrote: LOL msl is caling savior vs gorush. "pride vs pride"
lol yeah, its because of the MSL selections trash talk :-)
Here's the words that were exchanged, to anyone who didn't know: (translated by LosingID8)
sAviOr: "It looks like GoRush is looking at me too easily"
Although they are friendly ordinarily, because of the individual leagues he wants to play him, and if he really does view me easily, he stressed that GoRush will severely suffer. Savior even used the word "Gwan Gwang"
jloved87's additional commentary: sAviOr says 'if gorush thinks too easily of me, I think he should be ready to get 'kwan kwang' by me (pwned, owned). 'kwan-kwang' is a very aggressive word which also means 'tour' but has a very simmilar pronounciation to meaning 'rape' in korean. So people say it tour because word rape is too harsh. But it basically means I'm gonna rape ya boy ~
GoRush: "sAviOr said that if he picks me he will play as terran"
GoRush said "In our past, I am leading 2-0", "if he can't beat me with zerg, he should change and play as terran"
Savior: "I am not fainthearted because I am behind by 2 games."
On May 26 2007 02:29 nova_442 wrote: I don't care who wins the Savior-Gorush game as long as both advance.
If they both advance then no one will care about it too, and it will be forgotten very quickly :-) but if they play 2 games, one being the loser's final for the MSL ticket, then it will be truely Pride vs Pride.
pple could try intelinside's link. I tested it two days ago, it worked just fine (maybe a little bit slower than other streams, but smooth nonetheless)
Both of them qualifying would be cool. But having them play 2 games and face each other in Loser's finals, would be better! :-) Hard to imagine that the winner won't win the Winner's match though.
hrm, fo some reason both players have heavier worker counts on one side of the mineral patches than the other (ie not taking best advantage of the 6 super-close mineral patches)
Hidden expo at 7...savior walls with a depot at the mineral wall and moves out with 5ish rines...lair stared for gorush, timed with a den. Scv in the base...sees den!
lurkers morphing at the 5 main positoin, burrow as scv comes, and scv dies before going up the ramp. however he HAS to know that gorush has expanded there.
Maybe mycube...unless he moves to take it out early with his fast tank and scan. Hes moving towards the hidden expo with scv! He knows it there..despite 2 lurks killing the scv.
Up to 4 rax now...3 tanks and vessel done for savior...mutas come back...saviors mnm chase them off again and irradate on the mutas! He splits them well though.
mmm, that's about 10-12 mutas for gorush at the 9 island, go into savior's main, only 2 turrets there, IRRAD ON MUTAS< GORUSH NTO SPILTTING WELL, focus fire on CC, as it floats away
Saviors T actually looked pretty damn strong, that game was closer than it looked Savior just needed to move out 30 seconds earlier and its his game as he wouldve taken down the hive and nat of gorush just before the guards.
GoRush was probably very insulted. He practiced very hard for this match against Savior. No wonder his play was great. Savior did very well. He was just surprised by a strategy that he didn't recognize.
and savior played very well, he definitely showed that he can compete at a pro level with his terran against zerg. gorush won that game largely due to build order, but savior's game sense and reaction time still shone quite a bit
it was a close game, don't be fooled by HHHEHEHE GUARDIANS DUHHH HURRR ^____^
I think a lot of us, if we saw Savior playing T and another progamer T like Midas, Nada, etc, we couldn't even tell the difference. Savior played very well, but I think GoRush's build could have very worked vs any other T in that game.
Savior played well. The difference in skill of Savior's T and other top progaming T's are really subtle, things that aren't obvious to the majority of us here at TL.net. That game wasn't a one-sided rape anyway. Savior was hunting down those expands quite well, and GoRush's 5 gas suddenly turned to 2 gas. If he could've held out for a bit longer, he could've taken it.
Hilarious game, and it was exactly as I thought. Poor Savior. He put no pressure on GoRush in early game, allowing him to get all that gas... he really should have played more aggressively. When Savior moved out, GoRush was already too strong. Savior's army size / macro was OK though... I'm sure he'll do better in a rematch. But I hope there is none... Savior *has* to advance.
That was an awesome game, even though I like Savior better. I was impressed by Savior's play actually, although obviously he was thrown off by Gorush's unusual strat. He blocked the initial muta harass almost perfectly, but obviously didn't expect Gorush to keep going hardcore muta.
Eh, I have so much more respect for players that take their dominance in stride, and put their arrogance away. I don't consider Nada anywhere near as cocky as Savior anyway.
On May 26 2007 03:14 Brutalisk wrote: Hilarious game, and it was exactly as I thought. Poor Savior. He put no pressure on GoRush in early game, allowing him to get all that gas... he really should have played more aggressively. When Savior moved out, GoRush was already too strong. Savior's army size / macro was OK though... I'm sure he'll do better in a rematch. But I hope there is none... Savior *has* to advance.
Your game analysis is false, no offense. But thats not the way it happened really. It was more of a failure to read gorushs build and moving out too early without adequite defense at home. That and failing to detect the guardians early enough for him to time an attack right before they were done. Savior did a 1 rax cc build, its hard to apply early game pressure using that Specially vs a lurk first build.
This MSL has been really cool. This might be the first time MSL outshines OSL?
Think about it 1. Current OSL has a million one-sided matches. 2. MSL first place is $50k. 3. OSL appears to be special because it\\\'s only 4 games/week, but those games suck. MSL is delivering decent/good games multiple times a week.
Well, I liked Shine\\\'s play including the rax lift away. Jangbi\\\'s a faggot for gas rushing then 1 gate nex with no zealot pressure. Gaymosexual.
I wish I didn\\\'t miss the GR game... I just came back from poker night -_-;; GR is my hero and I\\\'m so glad he didn\\\'t lose to Savior\\\'s offrace, cuz that\\\'d suck. He\\\'s so underappreciated...
I think jangbi has a habitual tendency to go for these high eco builds.
He did 14 nex vs anytime in ODT ro48 and got molested, I think he also failed a few times in proelague on monty hall or something doing eco heavy stuff.
gorush with nice ling micro kills 1/2 of the firebats, sending 6 lings to the terran main? gorush arrives at the terran main with 3 lurkers and 6 lings, attackign the bunker at the mianeral line, scanner is up and scans the lurekrs, lureks unburrow and get out of range.
3 sunks at ramp + 1 lurkers in zerg amin, shine grimacing, as he cant attack it.
Look at shine's face lol!! He deserves what he got after he tried to cheese for that win, and it wasn't even good cheese. It was like the kind that molds after it has been in the fridge too long... :/
As a terran, what do you honestly do in that position? GoRush completely outplayed Shine in that exact moment. You have to save the bunker or you lose all your SCVs. You can't repair your bunker though, because...well you'll lose all your SCVs. Brilliant play by GoRush today, maybe July switching over made an impact?
sAviOr, Zerg it on! MSL without the maestro sounds too weird o.O Bisu will have it too easy! 2 qualifying Zergs from one group = just what this Starleague needs.
On May 26 2007 03:54 PanoRaMa wrote: As a terran, what do you honestly do in that position? GoRush completely outplayed Shine in that exact moment. You have to save the bunker or you lose all your SCVs. You can't repair your bunker though, because...well you'll lose all your SCVs. Brilliant play by GoRush today, maybe July switching over made an impact?
Block your ramp with scvs to keep him from getting in
I also don't like the way his SCVs that were supposed to repair the bunker at GoRush's ramp were kinda chilling off to the right. They should have been stationed closer. As it was, they got killed before they could even touch that bunker.
On May 26 2007 03:59 The Storyteller wrote: I also don't like the way his SCVs that were supposed to repair the bunker at GoRush's ramp were kinda chilling off to the right. They should have been stationed closer. As it was, they got killed before they could even touch that bunker.
Ya it was sloppy but it wouldnt have made much difference...interesting game this time around...protoss in the advantatage build wise id say. He can keep the zerg drone count low with pressure while he massing up probes...then defends vs the tech.
1 sunk going up at the ramp, it goes up, ligns surround the zeals, and all zeals die 2/3 probes die, sunk at deep red hp, more lings and zeals are being made.
1 sunk going up at the ramp, it goes up, ligns surround the zeals, and all zeals die 2/3 probes die, sunk at deep red hp, more lings and zeals are being made.
savior gets 6 lings into jangbi's main past a zeal on ramp.
jangbi with mass zeals on savior's ramp. like 6?
savior gettign a 2nd sunk on ramp, and now engages the zeals with lings, backs off and lets zeals expose themselves, then moves in again.
jabgi loses like 2 zeals, now it's 6 zeals vs 12 ligns though, as janbgi continues to rally more zeals.
savior's ling attack has been cleared by jangbi.
but savior going in with another 8 lings into jangbi's main, cannon being warped in though, jangbi defending well with probes, loosk like he brought back his zeals from savior's main.
On May 26 2007 04:13 Autumn_gm wrote: Now get ready for gay cheese by shine. What d bag... :/
Yes he will, and he should too, he CANT beat sAviOr with a standard build :-) and he knows it. So he'll gamble for his life... too bad for him, it won't work on sAviOr.
On May 26 2007 04:15 exihea wrote: no matter how janbi cannon, he lose anyway losing main or losing two gates == gg he did not have $ to do multiple cannons in both main and ramp
On May 26 2007 04:13 Autumn_gm wrote: Now get ready for gay cheese by shine. What d bag... :/
so you want players to NOT use the strategy that is most likely to get them the win? Your logic is amazing -___-.
This is their fucking livelihood, and they should do whatever it takes (within the rules) to get them the win. If it's turtling that is most likely to get them the win, do it. If it's cheese-rushing, then do it.
It's like telling someone to not use their book in an open book exam: utterly retarded.
The level difference is too huge. They can't beat sAviOr playing 'straight'. Its like a 1d Go player can't beat a 4d, unless he goes all out crazy strategy and wins some huge fight... even then his chances are low, yet better.
savior often blocks cheeses, probably moreso than any zerg playing currently. But he's also lost to cheeses, and this is undeniable. Lost to reach's center 2 gate, lost to ra's cannon rush, lost to nada's bunkering as well as factory lift.
Looking at the past results and patterns, it's then up to the player to decide what option to take
On May 26 2007 04:24 Storchen wrote: So I don't feel like reading all the comments while the game is on, so, was the Saviors game vs Jangbi any good?? Downloadworthy?
short answer is no. If you want, dl yakii's small vods
On May 26 2007 04:13 Autumn_gm wrote: Now get ready for gay cheese by shine. What d bag... :/
so you want players to NOT use the strategy that is most likely to get them the win? Your logic is amazing -___-.
This is their fucking livelihood, and they should do whatever it takes (within the rules) to get them the win. If it's turtling that is most likely to get them the win, do it. If it's cheese-rushing, then do it.
It's like telling someone to not use their book in an open book exam: utterly retarded.
Honestly I don't care about this statement. I watch it to be entertained, and cheesing for a win isn't entertaining to me. Maybe it is to you, but it is boring and makes for a less exciting match. Also generally players that cheese tend to play at a lower level on majority of their late games so I think instead of wasting all that time practicing that cheese they need to work on their main game so they can get further than just group stages.
It's like taking an open book exam with a book and still failing in the end for my opinion, and it makes them look that much more stupid when they lose.
[QUOTE]On May 26 2007 04:25 Autumn_gm wrote: [QUOTE]On May 26 2007 04:20 thedeadhaji wrote: [QUOTE]On May 26 2007 04:13 Autumn_gm wrote: Now get ready for gay cheese by shine. What d bag... :/[/QUOTE] I watch it to be entertained, and cheesing for a win isn't entertaining to me. [/QUOTE]
2 gate is actually good against 9 pool..really strong at limiting the zerg eco. They basically have to make only zerglings from their hatch for a long time. While protoss increases his probe count, putting him ahead. Ok lets focus on this game now
On May 26 2007 04:27 thedeadhaji wrote: you watch to be entertained, they play to win.
end of story
Exactly so why create a dumb dispute just because I don't like watching cheesed games seems kind of childish to me?
b/c you insinuate that a player is a d-bag for cheesing, when they are simply playing in the manner that they should to maximize their chances of winning.
your expectations are not aligned with the player's perspective at all.
On May 26 2007 04:27 thedeadhaji wrote: you watch to be entertained, they play to win.
end of story
Exactly so why create a dumb dispute just because I don't like watching cheesed games seems kind of childish to me?
b/c you insinuate that a player is a d-bag for cheesing, when they are simply playing in the manner that they should to maximize their chances of winning.
your expectations are not aligned with the player's perspective at all.
so that doesn't mean that I am not entitled to my opinion? I am also sure I am not the only one that doesn't like it, and my perspective as we discussed is different from the motives of the players so in the end created a dispute when you could just agree to disagree with me is pointless. :/
mm, savior has expanded to the right nat as well, shien going up to 6 rax now, savior picking off some mnm in the right mineral wall area, delaying the opening of the mineral wall there.
wall opened, shine moving out with 1.5 group mnm and 1 vessle.
savior is rushing hive, as he gets his first hydras
as shine squeezes through the mineral wall opening with his army, savior kilsl many infantry that get exptended towards the back, and also gets a tank was well.
irrad on mutas, somewhat poor split.
shine loses 1 vessle to scourge, as savior finishes his defiler mound
Wow savior with great game sense gets a bunch of kills while they try to squeeze throught he min block..shine gets a irrad on the muta clump though. Scourges a vessel, then retreats lurks. Def mound done.
On May 26 2007 04:27 thedeadhaji wrote: you watch to be entertained, they play to win.
end of story
Exactly so why create a dumb dispute just because I don't like watching cheesed games seems kind of childish to me?
b/c you insinuate that a player is a d-bag for cheesing, when they are simply playing in the manner that they should to maximize their chances of winning.
your expectations are not aligned with the player's perspective at all.
so that doesn't mean that I am not entitled to my opinion? I am also sure I am not the only one that doesn't like it, and my perspective as we discussed is different from the motives of the players so in the end created a dispute when you could just agree to disagree with me is pointless. :/
"I dont like cheesing" is a opinion, of which of course you are entitled to, and is undisputable.
"That cheesing player XYZ is a douche" is a statement, to which I am entitled to object to, for it is a statement, not an opinion.
as i miss most of the action due to my arguing with some guy, savior appears to have taken apart shine's army in teh right lane with lurker ling, as well as harass the main with mutas, and sned lurker sto harass the left nat.
why did the t have sooo few units ? that was just such a big difference if u see NaDa or oov playing tvz .. come on.. savior played good but the t.. omg ^^
On May 26 2007 04:38 MaGic~PhiL wrote: why did the t have sooo few units ? that was just such a big difference if u see NaDa or oov playing tvz .. come on.. savior played good but the t.. omg ^^
bc hes def not near good as NaDa or oov playing tvz
On May 26 2007 04:27 thedeadhaji wrote: you watch to be entertained, they play to win.
end of story
Exactly so why create a dumb dispute just because I don't like watching cheesed games seems kind of childish to me?
b/c you insinuate that a player is a d-bag for cheesing, when they are simply playing in the manner that they should to maximize their chances of winning.
your expectations are not aligned with the player's perspective at all.
so that doesn't mean that I am not entitled to my opinion? I am also sure I am not the only one that doesn't like it, and my perspective as we discussed is different from the motives of the players so in the end created a dispute when you could just agree to disagree with me is pointless. :/
"I dont like cheesing" is a opinion, of which of course you are entitled to, and is undisputable.
"That cheesing player XYZ is a douche" is a statement, to which I am entitled to object to, for it is a statement, not an opinion.
Actually it is still an opinion that I think he is a d bag for cheesing. You can disagree with it thats fine you like cheese, but to create a dispute on it which you stated caused you to miss some of the action could have been avoided if you just disagreed and moved on. Not my fault you wanted to force the situation.
Nobody considers Savior went 3 hatch no pool opening. Nor the fact he could power to about 30 drones and didn't make shit for lings all early game and blame the T's bad macro? -_-;; How about, T's bad game plan or Savior's balls instead.
And I'm definately glad Shine lost, he played so gay, and so did Jangbi. I liked Shine til he did this shit for all his games... Reminds me of TT's first impression in a SL all over again.
On May 26 2007 04:43 SuperJongMan wrote: Nobody considers Savior went 3 hatch no pool opening. Nor the fact he could power to about 30 drones and didn't make shit for lings all early game and blame the T's bad macro? -_-;; How about, T's bad game plan or Savior's balls instead.
And I'm definately glad Shine lost, he played so gay, and so did Jangbi. I liked Shine til he did this shit for all his games... Reminds me of TT's first impression in a SL all over again.
Glad I am not the only person with this "opinion".
On May 26 2007 04:47 puLs.ReADy wrote: Can someone tell me what kind of game was Savior vs Gorush ? Did Savior play good ?
GoRush had early Quad Gas, which gave him an extreme advantage. Savior managed to give him some hell on his expos. Also Rush infested his nat's cc which was awesome. I think it was a good worth the watch. Savior did alright as terran, but was just at to big a disadvantage macro wise.
Eh? It was like this. Savior opted to 1 rax cc, which was scouted quickly. Go rush opened 12 expo into a fast lurker build. While making a quick/hidden expo at the 7 main. Savior scouted it but after lurkers were completed. Being denied the opportunity to strike early at the zergs expos; terran massed up an initial attack for of a few tanks and 2 groups of marines + medics and the first vessel. Once he got this he moved out towards the go rush main (after fending off the customary muta harass). In a sick play gorush used this opportunity, and his quick gasses to send infest the main cc of savior. Saviors army moved forward to gorushs main but gorush barely managed to morph guardians just in time to save his hive at his nat. 2 ensnares followed and his initial force was wiped out by the guards. However saviors reenforcements took out the 3rd and 4 bases of gorush leaving him with only his natural. At this point those the damage was done and without the econ of 2 bases gorush wore away fairly quickly at his vessel count and unit count, overpowering him quickly. Had Savior managed to push out slightly quicker (about 30 seconds) he wouldve taken out the hive and natural of gorush and been ableto run away in time saving most of his army and probably securing him the game.
On May 26 2007 04:27 thedeadhaji wrote: you watch to be entertained, they play to win.
end of story
Exactly so why create a dumb dispute just because I don't like watching cheesed games seems kind of childish to me?
b/c you insinuate that a player is a d-bag for cheesing, when they are simply playing in the manner that they should to maximize their chances of winning.
your expectations are not aligned with the player's perspective at all.
so that doesn't mean that I am not entitled to my opinion? I am also sure I am not the only one that doesn't like it, and my perspective as we discussed is different from the motives of the players so in the end created a dispute when you could just agree to disagree with me is pointless. :/
"I dont like cheesing" is a opinion, of which of course you are entitled to, and is undisputable.
"That cheesing player XYZ is a douche" is a statement, to which I am entitled to object to, for it is a statement, not an opinion.
Actually it is still an opinion that I think he is a d bag for cheesing. You can disagree with it thats fine you like cheese, but to create a dispute on it which you stated caused you to miss some of the action could have been avoided if you just disagreed and moved on. Not my fault you wanted to force the situation.
Yep its an opinion, but do you have anything to back it up with? How does cheesing make him a douche bag? Trying to win in the best way possible makes someone a douche bag? How so? Thats the point haji is making...an opinion without something to back it up is just shitting out of your mouth Talking to hear yourself talk.
Savior went very fast factory after his exp and started making tanks right away. I think this was good for gorush since there was no threat to his exp in the double gas main with so few marines and late academy. Also Savior couldn't make any fast tankpush or whatever he had in mind since Gorush had lurks out fast. Then when expos were secured gorush switched to massmuta and later guardian and infested the commandcenter when Savior moved out once he had vessels. Some cute ensnare too by Gorush. Savior didn't play bad. He did a good job clearing out some expos and almost killing the nat but his build and gameplan was just brilliantly countered by Gorush.
these maps are awesome, i really can see that the better players are showing their shit and not having to overcome stacked maps
all those shitty terrans that qualified because of arkanoid and hitchhiker are proving they don't belong here at all and if these maps are the next qualifying maps they better keep this memory of being in the big league in their heart because they ain't coming back for a long time
On May 26 2007 04:13 Autumn_gm wrote: Now get ready for gay cheese by shine. What d bag... :/
so you want players to NOT use the strategy that is most likely to get them the win? Your logic is amazing -___-.
This is their fucking livelihood, and they should do whatever it takes (within the rules) to get them the win. If it's turtling that is most likely to get them the win, do it. If it's cheese-rushing, then do it.
It's like telling someone to not use their book in an open book exam: utterly retarded.
Honestly I don't care about this statement. I watch it to be entertained, and cheesing for a win isn't entertaining to me. Maybe it is to you, but it is boring and makes for a less exciting match. Also generally players that cheese tend to play at a lower level on majority of their late games so I think instead of wasting all that time practicing that cheese they need to work on their main game so they can get further than just group stages.
It's like taking an open book exam with a book and still failing in the end for my opinion, and it makes them look that much more stupid when they lose.
Good Day Sir!! -_-;;
players can cheese if they want to. The players care more about winning then you being entertained. If they suck late game, then oh well, it's their problem.
KizZBG, thanks...your always THE MAN with the pics I like these new maps...like someone already said, here we can see how good players are adapting much better and faster to special situations. Gorush and Savior did a great job by doing so. Next round will be hell for them
I bet he didn't care. His other opponants are Jangbi and Shine.. LOL. Savior was probably grinning cuz he knew GoRush would get SO AMPED. AMPED..
Did you see GoRush after his 2-0? LOLOLOL Cheesiest Serious motherfucker alive EVER. He was so serious I felt... embarassed by his seriousness.. But I love him.
On May 26 2007 10:43 SuperJongMan wrote: I bet he didn't care. His other opponants are Jangbi and Shine.. LOL.
This. He knew he could afford to throw the first game, as Jangbi and Shine aren't exactly starleague material at this point. Random would've been more ballsy than just going T though.
3-0 GR vs Savior. Right? lol... Man, I just saw the game and GR really is brilliant. Nothing short of it. That build and map usage was nothing short of his stupid nickname. Management Magician -_-;;
Facking art tho.
That and Savior's T sense doesn't match his Z sense.
On May 26 2007 04:27 thedeadhaji wrote: you watch to be entertained, they play to win.
end of story
Exactly so why create a dumb dispute just because I don't like watching cheesed games seems kind of childish to me?
b/c you insinuate that a player is a d-bag for cheesing, when they are simply playing in the manner that they should to maximize their chances of winning.
your expectations are not aligned with the player's perspective at all.
so that doesn't mean that I am not entitled to my opinion? I am also sure I am not the only one that doesn't like it, and my perspective as we discussed is different from the motives of the players so in the end created a dispute when you could just agree to disagree with me is pointless. :/
"I dont like cheesing" is a opinion, of which of course you are entitled to, and is undisputable.
"That cheesing player XYZ is a douche" is a statement, to which I am entitled to object to, for it is a statement, not an opinion.
Actually it is still an opinion that I think he is a d bag for cheesing. You can disagree with it thats fine you like cheese, but to create a dispute on it which you stated caused you to miss some of the action could have been avoided if you just disagreed and moved on. Not my fault you wanted to force the situation.
Yep its an opinion, but do you have anything to back it up with? How does cheesing make him a douche bag? Trying to win in the best way possible makes someone a douche bag? How so? Thats the point haji is making...an opinion without something to back it up is just shitting out of your mouth Talking to hear yourself talk.
I don't think I need to back it up when I am not the only one that feels cheese is a bad way to win a game, but at the very least you can acknowledge it was an opinion.
Bottom line is it isn't entertaining to me, and some people might think it is disrespectful to their favorite player when they get cheesed for a win. Especially when they can't get a win in a regular game. It is like dirty cheap tactics to win a game. Maybe they need that win, but do they need it enough at the expense of having people think this way about them? Maybe they could just try to get better so they don't have to cheese?
I am not the first or only person here to call someone gay or a d bag not even in this thread let alone in the life time of this site because they cheesed so in my opinion creating a specific dispute against me instead of just disagreeing is a waste of your time and mine.
You got to learn some people like certain teams and players that other people don't like. The same goes about cheese. Some people like their players to win and do anything it takes to win as to where some people think it is disrespectful and lame towards other players. Everyone is entitled to what they want to think as am I.
I shouldn't have to backup any statement because some guy thought it was needed to argue about something that is or can be a general opinion of anyone here. Being able to accept other peoples opinions without arguing is part of what it means to be an adult, and outside of my curiosity as to why you would start a dispute about something so trivial I think I have yet to disrespect anyone here outside of shine who I still think is a d bag for cheesing. lol :/
I hope this gives enough clarification as to why I think he is a d bag for cheesing, and why my opinion will stay as such. I am not asking for you to agree or accept it, but just try not to start meaningless dramatics over it when quite frankly a number of people here just hate cheese.
Drama of all sorts and levels aside, this group makes Z look so imba. Standard play gets raped, and rushes get raped.
By the way, how many TvZ games on Desperado have there been so far? I can't remember seeing another, but if somebody could point a game out, that'd be great. GoRush's build looked like it should have like 80% winrate...so ridiculously strong. Fast lurk -> fast 4 gas -> mass muta midgame with turbo hive -> guardian ownage plus queen usage/main CC steal? The map is so huge sending out early midgame armies would be suicide because of reinforcements. So what does Terran need to do? Drops to kill the second main?
On May 26 2007 15:02 Myrmidon wrote: Drama of all sorts and levels aside, this group makes Z look so imba. Standard play gets raped, and rushes get raped.
By the way, how many TvZ games on Desperado have there been so far? I can't remember seeing another, but if somebody could point a game out, that'd be great. GoRush's build looked like it should have like 80% winrate...so ridiculously strong. Fast lurk -> fast 4 gas -> mass muta midgame with turbo hive -> guardian ownage plus queen usage/main CC steal? The map is so huge sending out early midgame armies would be suicide because of reinforcements. So what does Terran need to do? Drops to kill the second main?
MSL RO32 Group A Oversky (Z) vs Freedom (T) was on this map I think, but that game never developed past the early game.
I'm sure Savior wouldn't have played TvZ against GoRush if the other two players were better. Savior probably knew that it was likely that he'd lose to GoRush with T (but fun -> he smiled after the game), then that GoRush would win against $Noob1 and advance, and then Savior would win against $Noob2 and $Noob1.
On May 26 2007 19:40 Brutalisk wrote: I'm sure Savior wouldn't have played TvZ against GoRush if the other two players were better. Savior probably knew that it was likely that he'd lose to GoRush with T (but fun -> he smiled after the game), then that GoRush would win against $Noob1 and advance, and then Savior would win against $Noob2 and $Noob1.
Savior is not as arrogant as you are He played Terran because he's better at TvZ than ZvZ
On May 26 2007 19:40 Brutalisk wrote: I'm sure Savior wouldn't have played TvZ against GoRush if the other two players were better. Savior probably knew that it was likely that he'd lose to GoRush with T (but fun -> he smiled after the game), then that GoRush would win against $Noob1 and advance, and then Savior would win against $Noob2 and $Noob1.
Savior is not as arrogant as you are He played Terran because he's better at TvZ than ZvZ
I actually agree, he looks better at TvZ than ZvZ, and I hope he plays more Terran :-) I can't remember any game where he won ZvZ against GoRush, and I remember 3 times where he lost to him at Proleague... if they played Bo3 I think I'd bet on sAviOr this time :-)
On May 26 2007 20:41 Brutalisk wrote: We'll see... I bet he sticks to ZvZ in the future.
nah, in the interview after the group E games, he said he wants to play off-race again against other players with name values, meaning other well known progamers such as gorush.
On May 27 2007 15:28 .dragoon wrote: Savior played pretty well, I rarely see a terran react so well to muta harrass before.
this probably goes without saying, but I'm betting it's because, as the number one zerg in progaming at the moment, sAviOr knows the weaknesses of muta harass, and he knows the weaknesses of Terran in TvZ (because he capitalizes on them in ZvT), so it stands to reason that he'll adapt his Terran play to make up for the weaknesses he knows so well and preys on.
You guys know GoRush didn't harass heavy with muta because his whole strat revolved around Muta count and conserving his mutas -_-;; He had a few chances to run around and avoid Savior and harass but he was super conservative in his muta movement.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/KizZBG/gomtvmslbanner.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://image.fighterforum.com/showImage.asp?realFile=FFPHOT20070526235259013.JPG)
