EPT
[ASL4] Ro16 Group D
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49993 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49993 Posts
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des
United States507 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7794 Posts
 ( GO GO GO GO JAEDONG !!!!!! | ||
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THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
Let's go Stork / Rain. Need some healthy hungry Protoss in that Ro8. | ||
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orvinreyes
577 Posts
Heart: stork jaedong I don’t know what to feel :| | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
Anyway, this is a very interesting group and will shape the ro8 greatly depending on who advances. Looking forward to it!! | ||
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geod
Vietnam450 Posts
Fighting!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
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XiaoJoyce-
China2908 Posts
At least another 2nd place hihi , because I still wan Flash to win whole thing | ||
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Keyboard Warrior
United States1178 Posts
is this today? | ||
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
All I can think about is Journey and Stork. Whatever way it goes - and I don't want to jinx it - this will be such a tense group. There's no good outcome, whoever loses out will be sorely missed. | ||
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Zephyp
238 Posts
On October 10 2017 14:20 Keyboard Warrior wrote: wtf. lol this could easily be semis in any other tournament. what happened with the ranking? is this today? Starts in 4 hours 14 minutes. | ||
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Keyboard Warrior
United States1178 Posts
2. Jaedong vs. Stork 3. Rain vs. Stork 4. Jaedong vs. Soulkey 5. Jaedong vs. Rain TBLS like it was 2010 | ||
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sc19980331
China1609 Posts
309 Korea JDyeyo 2761 Zerg 788 Korea 2JD 2569 Zerg http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/527268-jaedong-near-to-retirement http://www.espn.com/esports/story/_/id/20848130/starcraft-beginning-end-legend-jaedong Also show respect to Stork, the veteran. 143 Korea [Stork] 2928 Protoss Soulkey 14 Korea insung.byuk 3255 Zerg Rain 4 Korea Moo.insung 3399 Protoss | ||
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sM.Zik
Canada2544 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
On October 10 2017 15:06 sM.Zik wrote: Almost certain that Soulkey gets out of this group, then either JD or Rain depending who's on better form today... You've got to be kidding not even mentioning Stork. He prepared hard for today's group. | ||
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gk_ender
United States717 Posts
On October 10 2017 15:20 PVJ wrote: You've got to be kidding not even mentioning Stork. He prepared hard for today's group. It's because people honestly and truly were not around for the phenomenon that was TBLS. The games have no reached the pre sc2 era levels, and the players look rusty, so I get how people can not have JD and Stork as favorites.....they just don't know any better | ||
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YASHSHAKAR
United States75 Posts
Every one of these players has something to prove and each has the skills to advance. Im setting an alarm to take a nap and catch this one live. Theres no way I could try to predict the mayhem about to take place. Hell, add that N.Korea could start an all out war any second and the tension for this tournament skyrockets. After all, some of these guys may be enlisting soon. Aside from all of that. Lets look at the meta of each player here. Rain: Best SC2 Protoss player making noise in the ASL now. Solid Macro, his micro has yet to reach its peak and he has fast reactions. Look for him to play aggressive. Soulkey: A perfect match for Rain. Equally (if not more) aggressive than Rain but Soulkey likes to gamble with that 5 hatch hydra often against Toss. Rain will need psistorm early to counter. Stork: Why push alot of buttons when I only need to push the right ones? Storks apm is slow and steady, but his approach is nearly perfected over the years and he still may have some innovation left in the tank. He needs to execute perfectly in order to advance. Hopefully his time with his gf hasnt distracted him, but has instead breathed newfound confidence to his swagger. Jaedong: Tyrant Zerg! The rage must be visually seen from Jaedong if we want to see him at his best. He doesnt fold under Pressure, and still has what it takes to win against anyone. JD is the true hope of the swarm. Should he show any mercy.. He will lose. This is why Jaedong must be careful on his timing against Stork. He Cannot afford to be too aggressive and fall behind. If the game goes into macro, he will be at a disadvantage. | ||
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Zariel
Australia1285 Posts
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M2
Bulgaria4110 Posts
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Silentenigma
Turkey2037 Posts
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Zariel
Australia1285 Posts
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traxamillion
104 Posts
Rly think JD has the best path he could possibly have here playing Stork first and then a 50/50 ZvZ vs soulkey. I'm guessing SK and JD get through but if not one of them certainly rain. I hope JD Advances but head says Rain. Also to an earlier poster. Stork has 0 Equity in a bo5 vs flash. Soulkey and Rain realistically have the best chances vs flash | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49993 Posts
On October 10 2017 17:12 traxamillion wrote: I'd bet heavily against stork making it through considering he's the worSt of the 4 and will have to most likely play at least 2 ZvPs. I'd also bet heavily on at least 1 z getting through since both of the first 2 games are ZvP. Rly think JD has the best path he could possibly have here playing Stork first and then a 50/50 ZvZ vs soulkey. I'm guessing SK and JD get through but if not one of them certainly rain. I hope JD Advances but head says Rain. Also to an earlier poster. Stork has 0 Equity in a bo5 vs flash. Soulkey and Rain realistically have the best chances vs flash jaedong is playing stork first | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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gk_ender
United States717 Posts
On October 10 2017 17:12 traxamillion wrote: I'd bet heavily against stork making it through considering he's the worSt of the 4 and will have to most likely play at least 2 ZvPs. I'd also bet heavily on at least 1 z getting through since both of the first 2 games are ZvP. Rly think JD has the best path he could possibly have here playing Stork first and then a 50/50 ZvZ vs soulkey. I'm guessing SK and JD get through but if not one of them certainly rain. I hope JD Advances but head says Rain. Also to an earlier poster. Stork has 0 Equity in a bo5 vs flash. Soulkey and Rain realistically have the best chances vs flash You don't know what your talking about here. Stork is the best pvt player in the history of teh game, and is responsible for about 90% of the builds protoss use in all match ups. Stork also has great heads up vs JD and Flash, and the only reason he ever "slumps" is when he's playing wow or getting a new gf. Its called TLBS for a reason | ||
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RAPiDCasting
Korea (South)594 Posts
On October 10 2017 17:30 gk_ender wrote: You don't know what your talking about here. Stork is the best pvt player in the history of teh game, and is responsible for about 90% of the builds protoss use in all match ups. Stork also has great heads up vs JD and Flash, and the only reason he ever "slumps" is when he's playing wow or getting a new gf. Its called TLBS for a reason Arguing history against reality is a spo0oOoky strategy mein Freund | ||
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chrisolo
Germany2606 Posts
Poll: Who will advance? Rain and Soulkey (8) Jaedong and Stork (6) Soulkey and Jaedong (3) Soulkey and Stork (2) Rain and Jaedong (1) Rain and Stork (1) 21 total votes Your vote: Who will advance? (Vote): Rain and Soulkey HYPE. Lets go Soulkey :D | ||
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Keyboard Warrior
United States1178 Posts
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Keyboard Warrior
United States1178 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49993 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10099 Posts
On October 10 2017 18:38 Keyboard Warrior wrote: which stream is the best? play.afreecatv.com/aslenglish2 is mine and Esportsjohn's stream c: Side note: I really want Jaedong to do well. His injury and mentality right now is pretty upsetting to us all and I want to see him get better again. | ||
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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Pandain
United States12987 Posts
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Grettin
42381 Posts
On October 10 2017 19:01 Pandain wrote: is the stream up? cant see it on twitch ASL isn't broadcasted on Twitch anymore. Only Afreeca. | ||
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chrisolo
Germany2606 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49993 Posts
On October 10 2017 19:01 Pandain wrote: is the stream up? cant see it on twitch http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/526611-regarding-streaming-of-asl | ||
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gk_ender
United States717 Posts
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negativedge
4279 Posts
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THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
It's a Toss It flies It's STOOOOORK Song Byung Gu fighting~~~~~~ | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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RAPiDCasting
Korea (South)594 Posts
On October 10 2017 19:12 BigFan wrote: holy shit that's packed! It's insanely packed here | ||
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lazz
Australia3119 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On October 10 2017 19:14 lazz wrote: Is posting restreams allowed? not afaik | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
So good. Let's go. I think Rain has this | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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Keyboard Warrior
United States1178 Posts
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
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THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
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Vendethiel
213 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
On October 10 2017 19:18 Golgotha wrote: hyped as fuck. i can't believe im not at the studio. i swear to god i will go to the finals. 10 hours early. couldn't get in? It looked pretty packed. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
I think he never showed up to try lol (from his comment). | ||
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Vendethiel
213 Posts
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7794 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7794 Posts
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Sajiki
Germany522 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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Yello
Germany7411 Posts
On October 10 2017 19:19 Keyboard Warrior wrote: none of the streams are loading for me... is it not working or just laggy? for me afreeca streams take almost a minute to load where it looks like it doesn't work at all. But when they are finally loaded everythings smooth | ||
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Vendethiel
213 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On October 10 2017 19:32 Yello wrote: for me afreeca streams take almost a minute to load where it looks like it doesn't work at all. But when they are finally loaded everythings smooth Same here. | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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Balthazar
United States277 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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lazz
Australia3119 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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Sajiki
Germany522 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
Sick storm drops now! | ||
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Sajiki
Germany522 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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razorsuKe
Canada2000 Posts
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3809 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3809 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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aya888888
29 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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phosphorylation
United States2935 Posts
the final surround with lurkers gave me chills | ||
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
So it's a ZvZ for the winner's finals. | ||
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Valikyr
Sweden2653 Posts
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traxamillion
104 Posts
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Sajiki
Germany522 Posts
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traxamillion
104 Posts
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reincremate
China2213 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49993 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On October 10 2017 19:43 PVJ wrote: GG by Rain. Man, he felt like he's not warmed up all that much. SK on the other hand was on fire. I dunno tbh. Rain looked like he was warmed up after the initial hydra attack. It's just that SK had a perfect defense overall. Can't beat that. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10099 Posts
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RHoudini
Belgium3627 Posts
Now between Stork vs Jaedong. Rooting for both players. | ||
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pinkbowtie1
23 Posts
On October 10 2017 19:42 coolprogrammingstuff wrote: What have I missed so far? Looks like it would have been a good game so far. Rain getting absolutely outclassed | ||
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gk_ender
United States717 Posts
Yes sk did a great job denying rains third....but rain should have planned for that. Also i think crossing field may be a reaver map in the pvz matchup. You can cannon up your front like crazy, take a free third in the back later, and it could play out like andromeda....Not nearly as sair/rteaver heavy, but definitley some good sair reaver harass | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On October 10 2017 19:46 BigFan wrote: Beautiful game overall! I dunno tbh. Rain looked like he was warmed up after the initial hydra attack. It's just that SK had a perfect defense overall. Can't beat that. Don't really know, Rain lost a ton of HTs to just Lings and Hydras and kept missing Storm in fights on Lurkers cause his Obs got sniped every time. | ||
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chrisolo
Germany2606 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
MOTORHEAAAD | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49993 Posts
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lazz
Australia3119 Posts
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gk_ender
United States717 Posts
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THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On October 10 2017 19:47 gk_ender wrote: See this just goes into the thing I don't understand people see in Rain. Honestly I do not think he handled that match very well, and I dont think that was a very high level pvz. Am i missing something? Yes sk did a great job denying rains third....but rain should have planned for that. Also i think crossing field may be a reaver map in the pvz matchup. You can cannon up your front like crazy, take a free third in the back later, and it could play out like andromeda....Not nearly as sair/rteaver heavy, but definitley some good sair reaver harass I think you're underestimating just how solid SK was there. Rain almost broke into his base at 12 and was trying to put pressure the whole game. He mined out at the end and couldn't break so he gg'd. Rain's PvZ can be amazing. He just has to be on point. | ||
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
On October 10 2017 19:35 Golgotha wrote: lol if im rain, i am going to be defending with reavers and bleeding the zerg out. 4 base toss is so strong in zvp. 4 base toss is by no means strong vs 5base zerg on hive. It used to be doable, but not anymore. | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49993 Posts
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mcJ
Denmark322 Posts
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Netto.
Poland523 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
Your last big tournament, it's yours to take. | ||
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pinkbowtie1
23 Posts
THIS IS YOUR SEASON | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49993 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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traxamillion
104 Posts
On October 10 2017 19:48 gk_ender wrote: Like imho, when i watched that last game....it didnt look super good between Soulkey and Rain and I just don't get the hype between soulkey rain, and ysterday with ppl hyping saak and shuttle....they just don't see that great Lol what? You can't see how great SK played there? There is a reason ZvP is the most one sided matchup and soulkey showcased it. Rain didn't even play bad he defended got his 4th up and had a 40 supply lead (not saying he was ahead obv). Those HT snipes were more a credit to soulkey then even a fault of rain. SK even busted the sickest storm dodge with drones I've seen in as long as I can remember at his 4th. Absolutely dope game | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Sajiki
Germany522 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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pinkbowtie1
23 Posts
On October 10 2017 19:52 PVJ wrote: Stork has balls. You mean hes too scared to fight J head on, so resorts to rushing him? Yea, he really has balls. | ||
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traxamillion
104 Posts
Now he double gates and prob wins but hopefully JD gets a aa out he should be able to. Brutal going down to 1 hatxh | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
On October 10 2017 19:57 pinkbowtie1 wrote: You mean hes too scared to fight J head on, so resorts to rushing him? Yea, he really has balls. I mean that rushing against JD with such an opener is ballsy yes. Not many people dare rushing JD I think. | ||
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
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traxamillion
104 Posts
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49993 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7794 Posts
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traxamillion
104 Posts
Has nothing to do with balls. It's just what he thinks is his highest equity play. Playing a traditional game where his edge is lower would in fact be more ballsy | ||
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reincremate
China2213 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
Sick archon morph! | ||
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:06 Golgotha wrote: how the hell...jd u are a god stork lost his entire army in the middle - must have been to bad maneouvering against lurkers - while sniping 3 hts at the 3rd nexus building. Everything went right in engagements, and tastosis still saying JD was behind and he was forcing attacks - despite the fact that those attacks came after he bulldozed stork in the middle :^) | ||
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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Grettin
42381 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7794 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49993 Posts
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
(And Tastosis really misread this game, they basically missed all the ways that JD was coming back). | ||
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RHoudini
Belgium3627 Posts
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Valikyr
Sweden2653 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6512 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:08 Grettin wrote: Man Jaedong looks tired :-( that espn article really did affect you | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Jaedong! | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10099 Posts
EDIT: oh no rainbow sheep are back | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:09 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: that espn article really did affect you What ESPN article lol | ||
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:09 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: that espn article really did affect you I'm not aware of this article and I agree JD looks like shit. | ||
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aya888888
29 Posts
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M2
Bulgaria4110 Posts
SK>Rain JD>Stork JD>SK Rain>Stork SK>Rain the mirror matches are kind of a coin flip and I am not 100% sure for them, but I am that at the end both zergs will advance, this is 100% | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6512 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:11 THE Sliggy wrote: I'm not aware of this article and I agree JD looks like shit. must be that i watch his stream often then. | ||
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Sajiki
Germany522 Posts
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Emnjay808
United States10655 Posts
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:11 THE Sliggy wrote: I'm not aware of this article and I agree JD looks like shit. And how do you look? Please post a picture of yourself, preferably on a really stressful exam day, so i can comment on how shitty you look. Not that it matters, what matters is youre a douche. | ||
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ComusLoM
Norway3547 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:09 VioleTAK wrote: His eyes hurt (And Tastosis really misread this game, they basically missed all the ways that JD was coming back). Man I am not following SC BW as much as before, and I just looked at the supply and realized JD is coming back. It was 75 vs 100 at one point for Stork, and then after the fight in the middle it was ~75 vs 85, and after the next fight JD was ahead like 91 vs ~87 or something. It was pretty obvious that Stork can't keep up on 2 bases even after JDs bad start. | ||
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
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traxamillion
104 Posts
Sigh BO Advantage for Soulkey. 12 hatch vs 12 pool. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49993 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:10 PVJ wrote: I'll have to rewatch what happened there in the middle when his third went down but that was pretty weird. Good surround against lurkers but then that hero lurker was left there to kill the nexus. JD was never behind, since he could spam drones after the rush, since Stork has 0 gates. After that, 3 first templars sniped and pure zealots can't fight against lurker composition | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3809 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49993 Posts
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
((( | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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ComusLoM
Norway3547 Posts
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traxamillion
104 Posts
Please win G5 JD | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
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reminisce12
Australia318 Posts
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reincremate
China2213 Posts
actually nevermind, it was pretty standard game length for a zvz | ||
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CoL_DarkstaR
Germany649 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:23 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Oh wow, JD mutas running straight into the scourge. gg this. Jaedong should've went straight for the main, left one muta back to defend and committed to the attack before spores were up. | ||
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CoL_DarkstaR
Germany649 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:24 BigFan wrote: this. Jaedong should've went straight for the main, left one muta back to defend and committed to the attack before spores were up. Exactly. Incredibly poor decision making by the ZvZ master. Funnily enough i had a ZvZ like that just yesterday, i ended up winning with just one muta against a helpless Z base. Just send one muta back to deal with the lings and kill the enemies drones as fast as you can. | ||
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:19 ortseam wrote: JD was never behind, since he could spam drones after the rush, since Stork has 0 gates. After that, 3 first templars sniped and pure zealots can't fight against lurker composition Sorry, only read this now. I never said JD was ever behind. I am just thinking (out loud) that I will want to rewatch that specific minute from the match to more clearly see what happened. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10099 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:25 CoL_DarkstaR wrote: Exactly. Incredibly poor decision making by the ZvZ master. Funnily enough i had a ZvZ like that just yesterday, i ended up winning with just one muta against a helpless Z base. Just send one muta back to deal with the lings and kill the enemies drones as fast as you can. SK had no AA. Jaedong also not watching his mutas and running into scourge ... | ||
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traxamillion
104 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6512 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:25 CoL_DarkstaR wrote: Exactly. Incredibly poor decision making by the ZvZ master. Funnily enough i had a ZvZ like that just yesterday, i ended up winning with just one muta against a helpless Z base. Just send one muta back to deal with the lings and kill the enemies drones as fast as you can. What are you talking about ?let one muta at home will get killed by two scourges easily.and dotn compare your lvl to these guys rofl | ||
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6512 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:25 FlaShFTW wrote: yeah jaedong threw hard. he was all in anyways after the drones died anyways, shouldve just gone for the kill. maybe,but i think he thought letting the lings killing his base will proly not allow him to finish soulkey in time. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10099 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:28 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: maybe,but i think he thought letting the lings killing his base will proly not allow him to finish soulkey in time. i think that he had enough hp on his buildings to first kill off the rest of SKs drones first and then go back home to defend. as long as he maintained over 3 mutas that game he wouldve won. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:28 Greg_J wrote: I don't really watch streams that much is Larva really that good? top 4? his mechanics are up there for sure. ZvP seems solid and ZvT standard can rival flash. | ||
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Levque
88 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6512 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:29 FlaShFTW wrote: i think that he had enough hp on his buildings to first kill off the rest of SKs drones first and then go back home to defend. as long as he maintained over 3 mutas that game he wouldve won. yeah do u think that,you are not playing you are watching the game,how will jd knows if more lings are not coming or what soulkeys has in main ? | ||
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THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:28 Greg_J wrote: I don't really watch streams that much is Larva really that good? top 4? IMO yes. | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10655 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:30 BigFan wrote: his mechanics are up there for sure. ZvP seems solid and ZvT standard can rival flash. i remember him raging on stream when he kept losing to Jaedong though, funny stuff. | ||
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THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:17 tanngard wrote: And how do you look? Please post a picture of yourself, preferably on a really stressful exam day, so i can comment on how shitty you look. Not that it matters, what matters is youre a douche. xD | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10099 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:30 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: yeah do u think that,you are not playing you are watching the game,how will jd knows if more lings are not coming or what soulkeys has in main ? this is also true. hindsight is everything | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1707 Posts
i can't understand why he asked flash to put him in this group! | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:31 Emnjay808 wrote: i remember him raging on stream when he kept losing to Jaedong though, funny stuff. haha ya he rages a lot. He's also done a lot of 24+ hour streams afaik. | ||
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
That is pretty surprising to me. I'm not saying you're wrong. I just never really ranked him too highly before. I’m a little out of touch with the scene. The ASL is the perfect stage for him to prove himself. | ||
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THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6512 Posts
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Emnjay808
United States10655 Posts
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ajmer
Poland27 Posts
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ComusLoM
Norway3547 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:34 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote: I think we know why.if rain loses to stork... i'll feel bad for him but i'll laugh. i can't understand why he asked flash to put him in this group! | ||
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1707 Posts
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Vendethiel
213 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49993 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49993 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:52 VioleTAK wrote: Wow JD vs Rain... I'm so stressed for JD!!! same | ||
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chrisolo
Germany2606 Posts
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M2
Bulgaria4110 Posts
Are you guys serious? Its fighting spirit, Rain's chances are close to 0 imo :-) | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6512 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:55 M2 wrote: Are you guys serious? Its fighting spirit, Rain's chances are close to 0 imo :-) FS is protoss land | ||
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reincremate
China2213 Posts
On October 10 2017 20:55 M2 wrote: Are you guys serious? Its fighting spirit, Rain's chances are close to 0 imo :-) It's 2017! | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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Leeoku
1617 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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Liquid`Zephyr
United States996 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3809 Posts
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Vuk_91
Serbia1690 Posts
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
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Emnjay808
United States10655 Posts
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49993 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49993 Posts
On October 10 2017 21:07 Golgotha wrote: it is disgusting that these matches are basically a bo1. they seriously need to stop that shit next season. no thanks, I'm not going to sit through a minimum of 2 hours for each series | ||
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ortseam
996 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On October 10 2017 21:07 Golgotha wrote: it is disgusting that these matches are basically a bo1. they seriously need to stop that shit next season. Yeah I don't understand this at all. | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Emnjay808
United States10655 Posts
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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Vuk_91
Serbia1690 Posts
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6512 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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Emnjay808
United States10655 Posts
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Vendethiel
213 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49993 Posts
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
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ComusLoM
Norway3547 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
JD at 34 supply, Rain at 80. :D | ||
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Liquid`Zephyr
United States996 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49993 Posts
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1707 Posts
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Grettin
42381 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
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Akara12345
164 Posts
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Rococo
United States331 Posts
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weiliem
2070 Posts
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chrisolo
Germany2606 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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necromashka
Ukraine7 Posts
On October 10 2017 21:11 Liquid`Zephyr wrote: :[ i feel crushed x.x same :C | ||
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Scaramanga
Australia8090 Posts
On October 10 2017 21:07 Golgotha wrote: it is disgusting that these matches are basically a bo1. they seriously need to stop that shit next season. It's essentially a bo3 for each player, you win 2 games and you're through | ||
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Liquid`Ret
Netherlands4511 Posts
On October 10 2017 21:07 Golgotha wrote: it is disgusting that these matches are basically a bo1. they seriously need to stop that shit next season. I agree. So used to bo3/bo5 from sc2, bo1 feels like a big step backwards... | ||
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Chsal
Australia23 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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VioleTAK
4290 Posts
Jaedong you're incredible! <3 <3 <3 I will follow his next couple of streams to support his next steps whatever they might be. If some kind of announcement is made... oh man JD... I don't know what to expect right now. Secondly I'm disappointed that Bisu and Flash are on the same side of the brackets, but that being said I'm happy about the actual opponents everyone got. I feel very sure that Bisu and Flash will win, making it an incredible semi-finals that might overshadow the finals, in case herO somehow wins the other side for example... Can't compare Bisu vs Flash to herO vs either one of them by a looong shot, it would make the semi-finals feel like the finals. I'm hoping Larva will beat Rain (the series will be amazing regardless of the victor) and continue to the finals. The only set I won't skip work for is SK vs Hero, a matchup I don't really care who wins tbh, which is exactly why I'm happy they got matched. It would also make the ZvZ semi-finals rather 'meh' if Larva wins, but ok... I just wish Bisu and Flash were on opposite sides! But I'll take that semi-finals! For those who want some extra hype matterial: Flash watching Mind qualify, while truly rooting for him and applauding his victory! Flash vs Mind [Flash POV] and another longer game (but pre-RM) Larva vs Rain 40min match [Larva POV] and 30min match [Dual POV] | ||
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RJGooner
United States2038 Posts
. Not just for JD but will Stork continue to compete in future ASL's? Everyone has talked about how JD hasn't looked dominant for a while but Stork man..... | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
On October 10 2017 21:44 PVJ wrote: It's a big upset, no surprise someone decided to pull the plug :D :D Im really sad for Stork. Expected him to go far into this ASL, but he dissapointed hard, as free and jangbi did, so i doesnt root for them anymore.Guess his good play will not come back anytime soon. From now on il root for Rain instead he seems much more evolving as a player. | ||
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chongu
Malaysia2584 Posts
Stork's level of play was sub-par compared to the Ro24, unfortunately. Hope he returns to form next season. Stork's PvT is out of this world. His drop play in PvT, his understanding of the game and his ability to make games epic is second to none. JD, keep fighting no matter where you are - no matter how bad the circumstances are. We will always be rooting for you. | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
Great games though and will look forward to see SK and Rain in the Ro8s. Rain especially I hope can make it to the Ro4. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On October 10 2017 21:44 PVJ wrote: It's a big upset, no surprise someone decided to pull the plug :D damn straight. JD not making it out is a big upset though both SK and Rain are stellar so it's not that surprising from that perspective. Still... | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
On October 10 2017 21:56 _Animus_ wrote: :D Im really sad for Stork. Expected him to go far into this ASL, but he dissapointed hard, as free and jangbi did, so i doesnt root for them anymore.Guess his good play will not come back anytime soon. From now on il root for Rain instead he seems much more evolving as a player. I think he played well, lost in tight matches and just remember what a great comeback he pulled off against Last. So why now? For me rooting is not connected to one or two bad performances. Such lows make the highs more worthwhile and these rollercoasters are why I'm rooting for. Good games come and go and I enjoy them without having to root for or against. But I understand you have a different concept and that's all good. But then I don't get it. I don't think you have to not-root for someone after losing out in such a tight group. Then by all means you should have stopped after the ASL3 Ro24. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On October 10 2017 22:16 PVJ wrote: I think he played well, lost in tight matches and just remember what a great comeback he pulled off against Last. So why now? For me rooting is not connected to one or two bad performances. Such lows make the highs more worthwhile and these rollercoasters are why I'm rooting for. Good games come and go and I enjoy them without having to root for or against. But I understand you have a different concept and that's all good. But then I don't get it. I don't think you have to not-root for someone after losing out in such a tight group. Then by all means you should have stopped after the ASL3 Ro24. my personal take is that a real fan will stick to the player regardless of outcome. I've been cheering for Jaedong for a while now. I really dislike that he's lost out of the Ro16 this time and the one before but at least he made FvJ happen and made semis in ASL2. He would've made it much further if he wasn't having all the pain and everything else. As for Stork, he actually beat Last this ASL and played well overall. It's just that Jaedong is his kryptonite and well, Rain had the better engagement in that one game (was close to even before). | ||
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RealityIsKing
613 Posts
Wtf were those HTs doing so far out in the first place w/o energy? | ||
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Prince_Stranger
Kazakhstan762 Posts
Jaedong is out.Only Soulkey left as main Zerg pride. | ||
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Burned Toast
Canada2040 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On October 10 2017 19:46 BigFan wrote: Beautiful game overall! I dunno tbh. Rain looked like he was warmed up after the initial hydra attack. It's just that SK had a perfect defense overall. Can't beat that. Looked like one of those games where you can't do anything right to me... lost a ton of HTs needlessly by walking them into stuff, kept giving up free archons everytime by needlessly moving back while it's morphing, only to then come back to try to save it (in vain). And to cap it all off he got his reavers stuck in his main. Looked like one of those games where everything goes wrong. A little surprised recs are so high, even if SK played beautifully. | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4123 Posts
Jaedong.. he might have won if Rain hadn't dropped those DTs | ||
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
I don't understand the comments about best of 1 series been bad. This is the way it's always been in Broodwar. OSL was round robins, MSL was this format; winners, losers, final. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
. | ||
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RealityIsKing
613 Posts
Are the quarter-finals Bo5? | ||
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Valikyr
Sweden2653 Posts
On October 11 2017 01:26 RealityIsKing wrote: Question: Are the quarter-finals Bo5? Yup, Bo5 from now on. | ||
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
Excited for next round! | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
Rain played amazing. I like how he left a control group of Zealots in his main in anticipation of a crackling drop. And that game with all the Dark Swarms ZvP was nailbiting. I think Rain and Bisu might dethrone Flash. | ||
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YASHSHAKAR
United States75 Posts
On October 10 2017 17:12 traxamillion wrote: I'd bet heavily against stork making it through considering he's the worSt of the 4 and will have to most likely play at least 2 ZvPs. I'd also bet heavily on at least 1 z getting through since both of the first 2 games are ZvP. Rly think JD has the best path he could possibly have here playing Stork first and then a 50/50 ZvZ vs soulkey. I'm guessing SK and JD get through but if not one of them certainly rain. I hope JD Advances but head says Rain. Also to an earlier poster. Stork has 0 Equity in a bo5 vs flash. Soulkey and Rain realistically have the best chances vs flash Good call. They are young and hungry for a title. | ||
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RealityIsKing
613 Posts
Thank you! | ||
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
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Netto.
Poland523 Posts
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sM.Zik
Canada2544 Posts
WP by Soulkey and Rain. | ||
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jonich0n
United States1982 Posts
Really hope it's not the end of his BW journey. | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
If zerg goes to hydra bust, toss cannot defend with anything but static defence, which zerg can fake to put protoss behind, so as protoss if u see fast hydra u have to make those cannons which have no other use but use "just in case" so toss is behind. If zerg does not go for fast mass hydra, protoss have to make starport + 5-6 corsairs which is suuper huge investment but if u not make it u just die as with the cannons, so u have do invest 700 minerals and 500-600 gas early game again "just in case" that puts protoss behind for a second time.You have the ability to kill few overlords if your corsairs dont die while you try to macro. If protoss for some reason lose corsairs zerg kills ur high templar with 6 muta and you are far behind if not dead. So what about options of protoss and zerg ways of defence. Protoss sends first zealots, 3 zealots kills like 3-4 lings and die, zerg does not need to invest in anything but units that he utilize until the end of the game, that put protoss behind for a third time. How a zerg defends vs +1 zealot push, with the simcity z needs 2-3 lurkers and 1-2 sunkens to push back 2k worth army of zealots. Protoss is behind for a fourth time. Doest the zerg needs to invest huge ammount of money in useless-semi useless units/buildings? NO. Can zerg play without air? Yes. Can toss play without air to air? NO Late game. Assuming protoss manages to not die until late game. With lurkers, cracklings, hydra and swarm, protoss army become useless against zerg(without reavers) zerg turtle map and wait for protoss to commit to attack that he surely will lose because have no chance against burrowed lurker ling hydra with swarm. If he does not commit, zerg can plague protoss army bit by bit until weakens it enough to eat him easy. So how can protoss win? Protoss is made to lose in this matchup and protoss is for sure the weakest race at this moment. Arbiters are an option to overcome zerg turtle, but i dont see any usage by progamers, only if i remember correctly there was a win by dsaqwe against trutacz in TLS and it was very cool. | ||
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TT1
Canada9991 Posts
SK vs Rain was a really nice game, SK played so well. Rain's reaver tech was insanely late tho, can't do much vs lurk swarm without at least 4 reavers. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
Happy that Rain got through, but I had no idea it'd feel this bad. | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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flyingrat
43 Posts
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defuzas
248 Posts
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M2
Bulgaria4110 Posts
On October 11 2017 03:50 _Animus_ wrote: watching rain vs soulkey vod and thinking about pvz. If zerg goes to hydra bust, toss cannot defend with anything but static defence, which zerg can fake to put protoss behind, so as protoss if u see fast hydra u have to make those cannons which have no other use but use "just in case" so toss is behind. If zerg does not go for fast mass hydra, protoss have to make starport + 5-6 corsairs which is suuper huge investment but if u not make it u just die as with the cannons, so u have do invest 700 minerals and 500-600 gas early game again "just in case" that puts protoss behind for a second time.You have the ability to kill few overlords if your corsairs dont die while you try to macro. If protoss for some reason lose corsairs zerg kills ur high templar with 6 muta and you are far behind if not dead. So what about options of protoss and zerg ways of defence. Protoss sends first zealots, 3 zealots kills like 3-4 lings and die, zerg does not need to invest in anything but units that he utilize until the end of the game, that put protoss behind for a third time. How a zerg defends vs +1 zealot push, with the simcity z needs 2-3 lurkers and 1-2 sunkens to push back 2k worth army of zealots. Protoss is behind for a fourth time. Doest the zerg needs to invest huge ammount of money in useless-semi useless units/buildings? NO. Can zerg play without air? Yes. Can toss play without air to air? NO Late game. Assuming protoss manages to not die until late game. With lurkers, cracklings, hydra and swarm, protoss army become useless against zerg(without reavers) zerg turtle map and wait for protoss to commit to attack that he surely will lose because have no chance against burrowed lurker ling hydra with swarm. If he does not commit, zerg can plague protoss army bit by bit until weakens it enough to eat him easy. So how can protoss win? Protoss is made to lose in this matchup and protoss is for sure the weakest race at this moment. Arbiters are an option to overcome zerg turtle, but i dont see any usage by progamers, only if i remember correctly there was a win by dsaqwe against trutacz in TLS and it was very cool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ypqGrm2FsE Yeah I think you are mostly right, of course Protoss can get ahead sometimes when outplays the zerg and protoss has this mid game very strong push before zerg's hive tech and thats about it. Arbiters are a lousy option, since, 2 scourges kill an arbiter and arbiters are slow and easy target for scourges, additionally, what works for protoss vs terran with arbiters is the protoss mobility > terran mobility, however, zerg mobility > protoss so usually it will be easy for zerg to defend a recall or counter attack protoss bases if he wish so. I would like to see some buffs for protoss vs zerg, buffs that will give protoss more options, but will not make the race overall stronger. For example make scouts speed research to be in the cybernetic core, which will make scouts a viable option which can put zerg on a defensive early and/or make dark archons start with 90 mana, so protoss can react to mutas even when there are no corsairs, things like these Overall I think that broodwar will benefit if all units become viable at least in some specific scenarios, but these scenarios should not be 1 in 1000 games exclusive. Actually the units I have in mind are ghosts/nukes for Terran, scouts/dark archons for protoss, queens/infested terrans for zerg (I know that queens see some play now, but it should be a bit more imo) | ||
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
The body gets older and if not for that Rain would have been dead much earlier. Ironic how one of the most micro intensive Zergs got outmaneuvered. This is very sad but inevitable end and the soon goodbye we are all yet to witness from Jaedong. Thank you for your games, they were wonderful, you were wonderful. | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
On October 11 2017 08:13 Golgotha wrote: I am still pissed. JD is better than a bo1 loss to rain or sk. sorry im just salty as hell. Unfortunately just not true these days. At his best Jaedong was better but he's nowhere near that anymore. | ||
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ortseam
996 Posts
On October 11 2017 05:49 defuzas wrote: No date for QF matches yet? ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/rhPC9KX.jpg) | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
Edit: Oh cool I got a bronze coin now. | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
Larva please avenge JD. Soulkey is gonna beat hero easily. I think we will most likely have a Larva vs Bisu finals. Who am I kidding. It will be flash versus Larva and Larva is going to find out that stream flash is not offline flash. | ||
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria3735 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On October 11 2017 12:01 Terrorbladder wrote: What could JD have done right? not attack into that sunken and not go hydra all in | ||
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
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conTAgi0n
United States335 Posts
... Brackets would be close to perfect if only they swapped  herO and  Mind. I would much rather watch some TvZs and see what Mind can do on the other side of the bracket than just have a Zerg-fest over there. Plus herO is a good player and all, but he is the least interesting of the four Zergs to me. I would be fine with sacrificing him to God in exchange for a better bracket. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
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splunge2
22 Posts
On October 11 2017 12:34 Magic Powers wrote: In almost every PvZ I hear Tastosis explain that one-hit-kills give off a ping warning on the minimap. They don't, there's no warning at all. Please stop spreading this myth Tastosis, it's driving me nuts :/ Arent they explicitly explaining that this is NOT the case? And that this is why dt in worker line in pvz is so much more dangerous than in pvt? Thats what i'm hearing every single game.. | ||
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BossPurple
Sweden65 Posts
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traxamillion
104 Posts
JD actually has been playing a lot better lately. 3rd in ELO this month. He lost 2 very close games that could have gone either way unfortunately. Agree her0 and mind should be swapped. Sucks SK has to play a ZVZ since his equity is higher in other matchups vs anyone but flash. Now to get to flash he probably has to get through hero and another zvz vs larva. | ||
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traxamillion
104 Posts
Killer dark horse anyone? How sick if he just beat bisu and flash to make finals lol. Looks like making the brackets the ASL organizers want to avoid a ZVZ finals. And does flash get the easiest road everytime? Easiest groups by far and plays one of if not the weakest ro8 player | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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Ubersturmfuhrer
Finland206 Posts
If we have Larva vs Flash finals, all is forgiven. Also + Show Spoiler + JD NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! | ||
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XiaoJoyce-
China2908 Posts
And there is 1 promo for proleague , it is Flash vs Rain advertisement hahaha. I hope final is Rain vs Flash again . I love TvP | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1707 Posts
On October 11 2017 16:13 splunge2 wrote: Arent they explicitly explaining that this is NOT the case? And that this is why dt in worker line in pvz is so much more dangerous than in pvt? Thats what i'm hearing every single game.. They're saying there is a minimap ping but no verbal warning. On October 11 2017 16:44 traxamillion wrote: Looks like making the brackets the ASL organizers want to avoid a ZVZ finals. And does flash get the easiest road everytime? Easiest groups by far and plays one of if not the weakest ro8 player Unless they rigged the live draw and the group selection, the organizers had no power over who plays who. And Flash last season played Last and SK. Shine was meh but it wasn't Flash's fault Shine beat everyone else and got to the finals. The season before that, he got lucky playing Guemchi in Ro8 but played JD in the semis. Finals were again meh, but blame Best for letting Sea beat him. Also: a.) Mind played great in the ro16 b.) The best 4 players in the ro16 managed to win their group, all of them will automatically go up against the weaker half c.) Of the 4 2nd placers, only Rain is a bigger threat to Flash than Mind imo | ||
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Valikyr
Sweden2653 Posts
On October 11 2017 20:51 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote: Unless they rigged the live draw and the group selection, the organizers had no power over who plays who. If it was rigged there would also be no way they wouldn't set up a possible Bisu vs Flash finals. | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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RealityIsKing
613 Posts
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hitthat
Poland2261 Posts
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1669 Posts
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1669 Posts
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1669 Posts
On October 11 2017 16:44 traxamillion wrote: Bisu might have a better chance getting to finals from the side he's in. All 3 of her0 larva and Soulkey give him a very hard time. Killer dark horse anyone? How sick if he just beat bisu and flash to make finals lol. Looks like making the brackets the ASL organizers want to avoid a ZVZ finals. And does flash get the easiest road everytime? Easiest groups by far and plays one of if not the weakest ro8 player Really happy for Rain. Did NOT believe he was going to get out. #1) Flash gets the easiest road b/c he gets auto qualified into RO16 b/c hes the champion and gets to make an easy RO16 group with his swap thing he has during group selections b/c hes the fucking champion #2 His RO8 is vs. a VERY good TvTer in Mind, and then he probably has BISU in RO4. How in the world does he have an easy route? #3 Last ASL he had LAST, the best Terran in the world aside from Flash, then SOULKEY who should have won 3-2 vs. Flash if he hadn't had the godliest scan in the world to see the Guardians. So tell me how Flash has had an easy path..? | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Having said that, I agree with your last post. Flash did not have an easy road here or even in past ASLs. He created an easier Ro16 group for himself, it's part of being a champ but his Ro8+ groups were anything but easy. | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1707 Posts
On October 13 2017 04:44 Alpha-NP- wrote: The ro8 has Larva against Rain. Does Larva actually have a chance? I like him in that he is the good villain. Only I don't wanna tune in if Rain is going to newb smack him in a blowout. I think he is favoured vs Rain actually, especially given his ro16 performance | ||
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TT1
Canada9991 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
On October 13 2017 05:09 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote: I think he is favoured vs Rain actually, especially given his ro16 performance Larva's coin-flipping zvz results in the RO16 makes him favorable against Rain? What the fuck are you talking about? Larva isn't even that good. | ||
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On October 13 2017 06:13 usopsama wrote: LOL. Larva is arguably the best zerg right now, unarguably a top five player. Unless larva chokes, rain is unlikely to take even a game off of him.Larva's coin-flipping zvz results in the RO16 makes him favorable against Rain? What the fuck are you talking about? Larva isn't even that good. | ||
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
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Cryoc
Germany909 Posts
On October 13 2017 06:13 usopsama wrote: Larva's coin-flipping zvz results in the RO16 makes him favorable against Rain? What the fuck are you talking about? Larva isn't even that good. Maybe you should watch the ZvZs so you know what the fuck you are talking about instead of assuming Larva won due to build order advantages. He clearly outsmarted his opponent both times and did not just win by chance. | ||
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
On October 13 2017 05:13 TT1 wrote: rain's pvz is by far his weakest matchup, i'd say larva is the favorite as well Its like the weakest matchup by far for any protoss lol. Rain is actually the second best pvz'er these days only behind Bisu, so i think thats worth mentioning. I think Larva and Rain is evenly matched actually. | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
On October 13 2017 06:29 arbiter_md wrote: I would say that SK has the best ZvT now, and hero or effort has the best ZvP. But larva got good enough to go through the Rain and remain dry. According to the sponbbang stats, Soulkey has since beginning of August surpassed any other zerg in zvp as well. He is the strongest zerg overall. Larva's sponbbang ELO is lower than Soulkey, Effort, Jaedong and Hero. Sponbbang is sponsored matches + stuff like KCM matches. Larva is capable of incredible things, but he is unstable. August to now: http://sponbbang.com/bj/?order1=전체&order2=elo&detail_td=winrate&month1=2017-08&month2=2017-10&race=전체&map_id=전체 | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1652 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
On October 13 2017 07:03 tanngard wrote: According to the sponbbang stats, Soulkey has since beginning of August surpassed any other zerg in zvp as well. He is the strongest zerg overall. Larva's sponbbang ELO is lower than Soulkey, Effort, Jaedong and Hero. Sponbbang is sponsored matches + stuff like KCM matches. Larva is capable of incredible things, but he is unstable. August to now: http://sponbbang.com/bj/?order1=전체&order2=elo&detail_td=winrate&month1=2017-08&month2=2017-10&race=전체&map_id=전체 Exactly. Soulkey is by far the strongwest zerg overall. Larva cannot even remotely compare to Soulkey. Larva couldn't even make past the RO16 in ASL 1, 2, 3. Anyone who thinks Larva is the strongest zerg is out of touch with reality. Larva is like Shine; they can fluke through the tournament once in a while, but they lack the consistency to be the best. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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traxamillion
104 Posts
And I'm not sure the ro8 selection was fixed as in group A 1st plays group d 2nd. Yes 1st place winners play 2nd place finishers but beyond that did afreeca have influence? Keep in mind flash vs bisu in the ro4 makes afreeca about as much money as them meeting in the finals. The way things are set up flash and bisu are near guaranteed to play. Had they been on opposite sides it is a lot less likely they ever even play as then bisu has to go through a bunch of the best zergs | ||
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Skybrod
Russian Federation19 Posts
On October 13 2017 07:03 tanngard wrote: According to the sponbbang stats, Soulkey has since beginning of August surpassed any other zerg in zvp as well. He is the strongest zerg overall. Larva's sponbbang ELO is lower than Soulkey, Effort, Jaedong and Hero. Sponbbang is sponsored matches + stuff like KCM matches. Larva is capable of incredible things, but he is unstable. August to now: http://sponbbang.com/bj/?order1=전체&order2=elo&detail_td=winrate&month1=2017-08&month2=2017-10&race=전체&map_id=전체 While not arguing about Soulkey's strengths, I'd like to point out that the conclusions you reach cannot be inferred from the data you mention. First of all, you have to look at a player's ELO for some amount of time. Say, from the beginning of August. You will discover that for a couple of weeks in the beginning of September and maybe before Larva was #2 in ELO. So the current rating is meaningless without context, since it's too much variation in day-to-day perfomances of a given player. Someone might have a bad day and lose 10-15 in a row. It happens, it's not improbable, and his ELO will drop considerably, especially if the losses come against lower-rated players. I would also like to point out (although it needs more researching) that the strength of the opponents for these two players differs somewhat, if we take into account the data you listed. Since the beginning of August the percentage of matches of both Soulkey and Larva against (arguably) strong players: Flash: Larva 14%, Soulkey 10%. Last: Larva 7%, Soulkey 5%. Bisu: Larva 12%, Soulkey 0.3 % Mind: Larva 5%, Soulkey 1% Best: Larva 3%, Soulkey 6%. Light: Larva 7%, Soulkey 3%. Larva also has played more ZvT (53% of matches) than Soulkey (48%), which is considered to be a harder matchup for Zerg. As for ZvP, 33% of Larva's matches are against Bisu, while for the past 2.5 months Soulkey has only played him once. Larva's percentage of games against other P players relative to the total amount of matches against P, (>= 5 games counted): vs. Bisu: 33% vs. Snow: 11% vs. Shuttle: 9% vs. Best: 8% vs. Mini: 8% vs. Rain: 7% vs. Stork: 7% vs. Horang2: 3% vs. Tyson: 3% Soulkey, the same: vs. Best: 18% vs. Tyson: 18%. vs. Mini: 12% vs. Shuttle: 11% vs. Snow: 9% vs. Horang2: 9% Soulkey has less than five games in that period against Bisu, Rain, Stork: vs. Bisu: 0.9% vs. Rain: 2% vs. Stork: 1% + Soulkey has played against two protosses that Larva has not played or played less than five games against: vs. Guemchi 7% vs. Sky 4%. Larva did not play against Guemchi and that period and has only two games against Sky (1%). Overall, I'd say that SK had weaker P opponents in that period, so that may have contributed to his increasing ZvP percentages (75% in August, 75% in September and 78% so far in October). | ||
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chuDr3t4
Russian Federation484 Posts
On October 11 2017 12:34 Magic Powers wrote: In almost every PvZ I hear Tastosis explain that one-hit-kills give off a ping warning on the minimap. They don't, there's no warning at all. Please stop spreading this myth Tastosis, it's driving me nuts :/ yep, terran privilege | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On October 13 2017 10:53 usopsama wrote: Exactly. Soulkey is by far the strongwest zerg overall. Larva cannot even remotely compare to Soulkey. Larva couldn't even make past the RO16 in ASL 1, 2, 3. Anyone who thinks Larva is the strongest zerg is out of touch with reality. Larva is like Shine; they can fluke through the tournament once in a while, but they lack the consistency to be the best. Dude. You haven't been following closely have you? The fact that you mention ASL 1/2/3 tells me that. Larva went nowhere in the first 3 ASLs. That's absolutely correct. Larva's results in other events, his fish ranking, his spon matches, and his general appearance on stream all reflected that. He was largely a punching bag. Que the beginning of this year. That's where shit started to change. Things clicked, and Larva got really good, really fast. He went from basically always losing against guys like Bisu/Flash/Last to starting to obtain winning results. He was actually bringing down win rates from those guys in spon matches at this point. He's continued improving since then. Last 3 months he is over 50% against Bisu. Over 70% against Last...let that sink in, better than 70% against Last. He's basically smashing everybody else. The ONLY player he struggles with is Flash, where Larva wins a little shy of 40% of his games. But guess what, so does basically every other zerg. Larva is much better against the other terrans, but EffOrt does do a little better against Flash if I recall correctly. Bottom line, Larva is absolutely one of the three top zergs right now based on current form. He is too new to actually being a good player to have a resume yet, but based on results of the past 6 months; Larva is undisputed member of the leading zerg trio of Larva, Soulkey, and EffOrt. No other zerg is close to these three right now, and these three haven't really separated themselves yet. | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1707 Posts
On October 14 2017 03:02 usopsama wrote: Don't worry. Once you guys see Rain 3-0 or 3-1 Larva with your own eyes, you will understand that he is actually not that good. Haha now I'm hyped for Sunday! To be clear, my assessment of the match is the same as BigFan -- Larva is favoured but only slightly. Which is actually saying something about how good I think Rain is. Like Boxer said in his autobiography, to be recognized, first you gotta prove yourself in front of your audience. Larva is good and he showed great games in ro16, but its easy to lose on the big stage and before you know it, that label that ur no good in offline tournaments will start to stick. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On October 14 2017 03:02 usopsama wrote: Don't worry. Once you guys see Rain 3-0 or 3-1 Larva with your own eyes, you will understand that he is actually not that good. Noting this for bump later. + Show Spoiler + I'd put money on Larva beating Rain. That said, Rain is one of the better PvZing protoss players. If anybody besides Bisu is going to beat Larva, it would be Rain. It still flies in the face of logic you don't think Larva is good. You don't have winning records against Last/Bisu without being good, and there is no other reason to think Larva isn't good. The only one I can think of is going by past tournament results, but if we did that we would still be thinking players like Jaedong, Shuttle, Ssak, etc. are good. Results from past 6-12 months are far better predictors of success than tournament results of a year or more. In other words, I'm genuinely curious why you don't think Larva is especially good. I can't see any reasoning for it aside from "Eh, I just don't think he is good." The other thing I should add is that it should be clear people aren't hyped thinking Larva is going to beat Rain because he won a pair of ZvZs. There is probably a more complex, overarching reason why people think Larva is likely to beat Rain. If you remember previous ASL's nobody expected Larva to do a thing. Knowing people tend to be pretty stuck to their opinions (which were always Larva is punching bag zerg) you'd expect something to have happened to change people's opinions. Given your thoughts, I'm curious what you think the driver of the dramatic reversal in how most TLers view Larva's skill level is? | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
But I am even more excited for this match now that I hear Larva has won more games than lost against Rain. Plus Zerg has a +10% chance in balance in ZvP. So all things together I'm hoping for a nice 3-2 series. | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
Larva 3:0 Rain: 15% Larva 3:1 Rain: 25% Larva 3:2 Rain: 20% Rain 3:2 Larva: 20% Rain 3:1 Larva: 15% Rain 3:0 Larva: 5% | ||
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winson
China138 Posts
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chuDr3t4
Russian Federation484 Posts
On October 14 2017 14:35 winson wrote: anyone knows what would be the map order of ro8 BlindRawr edited it in LP page today, check it out. | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
I'm still putting my money on Rain even though I admit I've been wrong in all my predictions. But I really think Rain will outperform him. So many Larva fanboys here. Imho. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On October 14 2017 23:31 Alpha-NP- wrote: In 19 hours it is Larva vs Rain I'm still putting my money on Rain even though I admit I've been wrong in all my predictions. But I really think Rain will outperform him. So many Larva fanboys here. Imho. Rain has never been that impressive. He hasn't showed me anything that makes me go "oh damn" this toss is terrifying. He's solid, but generally unspectacular. Compared to Larva who had ZvP as his strongest matchup, winning record against Bisu and other tosses, etc. There no real reason I can find for picking Rain over Larva...well, unless you think Rain is a Shine type player that is an absolute genius of series play. That's possible, but I haven't seen it. | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia917 Posts
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1707 Posts
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1707 Posts
On October 13 2017 06:13 usopsama wrote: Larva's coin-flipping zvz results in the RO16 makes him favorable against Rain? What the fuck are you talking about? Larva isn't even that good. On October 14 2017 03:02 usopsama wrote: Don't worry. Once you guys see Rain 3-0 or 3-1 Larva with your own eyes, you will understand that he is actually not that good. Would like to be the bigger man here, but you did swear at me for no real reason. For the record I was cheering for Rain and I'm sad he went out like that. | ||
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Cryoc
Germany909 Posts
On October 15 2017 21:10 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote: + Show Spoiler + Would like to be the bigger man here, but you did swear at me for no real reason. For the record I was cheering for Rain and I'm sad he went out like that. Spoiling the results of a series in the wrong LR thread is not the best idea. | ||
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