While I'd love to have all non-terrans advance, terrans just have too many cards to play Between Stork, GGplay and Reach, at least one's not gonna advance. I have a feeling it's gonna be reach.
1. Mantoss > Elf 2. Hiya < Sea 3. Mantoss lets out a mighty roar, and Sea cowers under the table in fear. FF win for Mantoss. (If, somehow, a game is played, Sea > Mantoss. He'll get lucky or something, it's Arkanoid) 4. Elf = Hiya, who cares. Elf can have it. 5. Man > Elf. This is Starcraft, not figure skating.
I have no idea how they opened, but it seems like it was a FE vs 3 hatch muta, the mutas really didnt do much damage, GF starting to move out with his infantry, ggplay has the 5 double gas, and is getting the 7 main as well.
muta ling lurker vs pure infantry in teh middle, not really sure what the result of that was, prolly light losses for both players.
ggplay looking to sandwich GF's army from front and behind, but GF now moivng back with his main army back to his nat, scanning and sieging onto the lurkers, which unborrow and go south towards the min only
right as gf sieges tanks, ggplay moves forward with lurks and perfectly timed swarm to murder 3 tanks, move shit moving in from the south area, yea GF's pretty much fucked here.
Fairly uninspiring performance from GF. Wasn't tvz his best mu to date? Might not even make it at this rate, I don't recall him ever being much of a clutch player. Is he?
On April 19 2007 22:29 roadrunner_sc wrote: Fairly uninspiring performance from GF. Wasn't tvz his best mu to date? Might not even make it at this rate, I don't recall him ever being much of a clutch player. Is he?
GFs always had tight TvZ. The problem is that he's fallen into a little trap that I like to call, "Being Terran on KTF".
That never bodes well for the whole "not sucking" thing. Know what I mean?
Well, at least Stork won't lose to dongrae. I mean GG showed that you can't count out underdogs but there's no way Stork won't win this. It's like taking Midas over Bisu, you just don't do it!
On April 19 2007 22:31 thedeadhaji wrote: >milkeymoo
I'll prolly report the next game, then go to sleep, so please take over after that :O
Deal. But I may also go to sleep after the 3rd or 4th game. So someone else want to take the reins? And, this gives me a chance to just do homeowrk during game #2.
Probably one of the most consistent at standard [2rax expo, 1rax expo] type TvZ, also has wicked fast tank push
TvT he was the best until Iris knocked him over. Still, he's been winning his past few [granted, mostly against washed-out XellOs (4 games - 2 in survivor, 2 in ODT)] and he's beaten some other guys with strong standard tvt
TvP his vulture control is only slightly less than BoxeR and NaDa themselves - it's quite insane. his standard TvP [FE, four fac 2 armory, or FE 6 fac push, whatever] are also quite strong.
He's a solid all around player. His TvP is fun to watch, his TvZ is good sometimes to watch, his TvT is universally boring but he wins I guess.
The probe that found dongrae was spotted and is currently being chased. The second probe returned to base. Looks like he's returning to a normal build.
obs out as well, and goons + shuttle moving north to dongrae\\\'s nat, clearing mines and opeing path to the terran main, 2 tanks siege inside main, goons fire at the nat cc, cc cancelled.
strok getting his nat nexus.
goon dropped on a tank, and goons move in, dongrade pulls scv
donrae with no fighting units, 2 tanks come out, but stork drops a goon and zeal on one, the goons move in via ground now, scv pulled again, doing decently in killing goons but hmm.
support bay warping for stork, rallying goons to the terran nat.
Goon drop in the terran's mineral line kills about 6 mines thanks to a nearby mine. There's a reaver in the shuttle as well, but he can't get a good drop off. Picking off stray untis instead; just goty a tank.
DIE TERRANS DIE DIE TERRANS DIE DIE TERRANS DIE DIE TERRANS DIE DIE TERRANS DIE DIE TERRANS DIE DIE TERRANS DIE DIE TERRANS DIE DIE TERRANS DIE DIE TERRANS DIE DIE TERRANS DIE
On April 19 2007 22:54 Carnac wrote: still tough way to go for stork though
pvz on arkanoid HARD
and then if he loses pvt on HH
ghey
I hope GG goes for an "early" win, if he finds himself trying to counter sair/reaver with queens and ensnare, devourers, defilers with plague, mutualisks and hydra's trying to chase those things down, games already lost for him.
P have recently been easily giving Z major headaches on this map, contrary to the map stats.
corsair finds ggplya's main, 2nd sair dies at stork's nat to scourge, cannon dies at the nat, 2 more cannons warping, being killed by mutas, porbes run now.
scourge chase sair away ttt.
2 sairs now, firing at mutas for a bit.
more socurge being added from ggplay, mutas fire at the nat nexus, stork getting cannons at the east nat.
ggplay with mutas + 6 scourge, kills the south nat now. adding more mutas. zeal killing cocoons at east nat, so stork can warp a nexus in pusition there.
aaaaahhhh 4 sairs die to scourge, like 8 mutas alive
mutas kill the core, workign on forge gate stargate robo, now finds the east nat so goes to kill the 3 cannons there, cannons die easily to the muta swarm.
On April 19 2007 22:54 Carnac wrote: still tough way to go for stork though
pvz on arkanoid HARD
and then if he loses pvt on HH
ghey
I hope GG goes for an "early" win, if he finds himself trying to counter sair/reaver with queens and ensnare, devourers, defilers with plague, mutualisks and hydra's trying to chase those things down, games already lost for him.
P have recently been easily giving Z major headaches on this map, contrary to the map stats.
First time worth quoting myself, THANK YOU GG, sorry to Stork fans but the rest of us don't enjoy watching that shiznit. Harder to do than to say, but GG played that to perfection, beautiful scourge micro.
Exact same thing happened to Free vs Yellow[arnc] on this map. PvZ looks really fucking hard on this map, everything the zerg does is pretty much impossible to scout.
On April 19 2007 22:54 Carnac wrote: still tough way to go for stork though
pvz on arkanoid HARD
and then if he loses pvt on HH
ghey
I hope GG goes for an "early" win, if he finds himself trying to counter sair/reaver with queens and ensnare, devourers, defilers with plague, mutualisks and hydra's trying to chase those things down, games already lost for him.
P have recently been easily giving Z major headaches on this map, contrary to the map stats.
First time worth quoting myself, THANK YOU GG, sorry to Stork fans but the rest of us don't enjoy watching that shiznit. Harder to do than to say, but GG played that to perfection, beautiful scourge micro.
On April 19 2007 23:06 Aphelion02 wrote: Exact same thing happened to Free vs Yellow[arnc] on this map. PvZ looks really fucking hard on this map, everything the zerg does is pretty much impossible to scout.
Actually, that game was nothing like this! are you sure you're remembering that one correctly lol? The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus
i think things would of been to s different had stork killed the overlord he didnt see, he would of killed an overlord, plus he wouldnt of flown across the map with his corsair, keeping it within reasonable distance to help stop the rush
On April 19 2007 23:11 Last Romantic wrote: so at most SIX non terrans.
at least TEN terrans
the fuck?
and most likely it'll be 5/11. bad feeling about stork vs GF, which is probably what will come up
Well things might change as Z and P have relatively new influences (a lot of people were inspired by boxer; now we have savior + bisu for their respective races.) EDIT: I meant in the future. Oops.
On April 19 2007 23:06 Aphelion02 wrote: Exact same thing happened to Free vs Yellow[arnc] on this map. PvZ looks really fucking hard on this map, everything the zerg does is pretty much impossible to scout.
Actually, that game was nothing like this! are you sure you're remembering that one correctly lol? The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus
I am remembering it correctly. I know Yellow did 1 base lair to muta instead of getting the 2nd gas, but the essential game play was the same.
On April 19 2007 23:06 Aphelion02 wrote: Exact same thing happened to Free vs Yellow[arnc] on this map. PvZ looks really fucking hard on this map, everything the zerg does is pretty much impossible to scout.
Actually, that game was nothing like this! are you sure you're remembering that one correctly lol? The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus
I am remembering it correctly. I know Yellow did 1 base lair to muta instead of getting the 2nd gas, but the essential game play was the same.
Hmm... maybe Yarnc and Free met more than once on this map? The one I'm remembering is quite recent, and Free eventually tapped out after like 45 minutes of gameplay.
On April 19 2007 23:06 Aphelion02 wrote: Exact same thing happened to Free vs Yellow[arnc] on this map. PvZ looks really fucking hard on this map, everything the zerg does is pretty much impossible to scout.
Actually, that game was nothing like this! are you sure you're remembering that one correctly lol? The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus
LOLOLOLOLOOLOLOL WHAT ???
I just watched free vs yarnc, and the game progression was literally IDENTICAL. 14 nexus -> gate -> forge core -> stargate -> robo vs 1 hatch muta with 2nd hatch mining gas
mutas fly in, kill nat nexus, go to the tech area, kill cannon there, and begin to confront the protoss air army with muta scourge. Meanwhile both free and stork were clearing the east nat, warping cannons, and getting nexus in the proper position. Literally identical events in the same exact order.
Literally the only differnece was how free/stork responded to this attack by running from the scourge instead of attacking mutas head-on.
Again, what exactly do you think was different up to this point? becuase that's when the game essentially ended for stork.
On April 19 2007 23:14 Last Romantic wrote: that's not really a fair comparison.
It would be more realistic to compare, say, modern NaDa to sAviOr and Bisu.
BoxeR's influence was in the old times, with GARIMTO and HOTForever.
Yeah what I meant was that boxer's influence was far greater than the other two, so people flocked to play T. Nada is amazing, but T already has its fanbase. P and Z have new stars that, at least for me, have rocked progaming for a bit, and hopefully show the true potential of their races.
On April 19 2007 23:06 Aphelion02 wrote: Exact same thing happened to Free vs Yellow[arnc] on this map. PvZ looks really fucking hard on this map, everything the zerg does is pretty much impossible to scout.
Actually, that game was nothing like this! are you sure you're remembering that one correctly lol? The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus
I am remembering it correctly. I know Yellow did 1 base lair to muta instead of getting the 2nd gas, but the essential game play was the same.
Hmm... maybe Yarnc and Free met more than once on this map? The one I'm remembering is quite recent, and Free eventually tapped out after like 45 minutes of gameplay.
LOL NO
yarnc has only faced free once on neo arkanoid or arkanoid, and that was in the ro48 of ODT, just 10 or so days ago.
On April 19 2007 23:06 Aphelion02 wrote: Exact same thing happened to Free vs Yellow[arnc] on this map. PvZ looks really fucking hard on this map, everything the zerg does is pretty much impossible to scout.
Actually, that game was nothing like this! are you sure you're remembering that one correctly lol? The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus
LOLOLOLOLOOLOLOL WHAT ??? I just watched free vs yarnc, and the game progression was literally IDENTICAL. 14 nexus -> gate -> forge core -> stargate -> robo vs 1 hatch muta with 2nd hatch mining gas
mutas fly in, kill nat nexus, go to the tech area, kill cannon there, and begin to confront the protoss air army with muta scourge. Meanwhile both free and stork were clearing the east nat, warping cannons, and getting nexus in the proper position. Literally identical events in the same exact order.
Literally the only differnece was how free/stork responded to this attack by running from the scourge instead of attacking mutas head-on.
Again, what exactly do you think was different up to this point? becuase that's when the game essentially ended for stork.
Mmm, I guess you must be right then, I didn't recall the early game progression being that similar, but if it was: how can you say THAT was the reason Z won that game on that map which is what the original poster was implieing. That game was won and lost for completely different reasons.
On April 19 2007 23:06 Aphelion02 wrote: Exact same thing happened to Free vs Yellow[arnc] on this map. PvZ looks really fucking hard on this map, everything the zerg does is pretty much impossible to scout.
Actually, that game was nothing like this! are you sure you're remembering that one correctly lol? The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus
LOLOLOLOLOOLOLOL WHAT ??? I just watched free vs yarnc, and the game progression was literally IDENTICAL. 14 nexus -> gate -> forge core -> stargate -> robo vs 1 hatch muta with 2nd hatch mining gas
mutas fly in, kill nat nexus, go to the tech area, kill cannon there, and begin to confront the protoss air army with muta scourge. Meanwhile both free and stork were clearing the east nat, warping cannons, and getting nexus in the proper position. Literally identical events in the same exact order.
Literally the only differnece was how free/stork responded to this attack by running from the scourge instead of attacking mutas head-on.
Again, what exactly do you think was different up to this point? becuase that's when the game essentially ended for stork.
Mmm, I guess you must be right then, I didn't recall the early game progression being that similar, but if it was: how can you say THAT was the reason Z won that game on that map which is what the original poster was implieing. That game was won and lost for completely different reasons.
Oops :EDIT screwed up post but fixed it
What?
I responded to this statement of yours:
"Actually, that game was nothing like this! are you sure you're remembering that one correctly lol? The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus"
which I showed was completely wrong. Why does aphelion's statement even matter at all when I have shown that your claim on this matter: -- how they got there being differnt -- was completely false.
On April 19 2007 23:06 Aphelion02 wrote: Exact same thing happened to Free vs Yellow[arnc] on this map. PvZ looks really fucking hard on this map, everything the zerg does is pretty much impossible to scout.
Actually, that game was nothing like this! are you sure you're remembering that one correctly lol? The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus
LOLOLOLOLOOLOLOL WHAT ??? I just watched free vs yarnc, and the game progression was literally IDENTICAL. 14 nexus -> gate -> forge core -> stargate -> robo vs 1 hatch muta with 2nd hatch mining gas
mutas fly in, kill nat nexus, go to the tech area, kill cannon there, and begin to confront the protoss air army with muta scourge. Meanwhile both free and stork were clearing the east nat, warping cannons, and getting nexus in the proper position. Literally identical events in the same exact order.
Literally the only differnece was how free/stork responded to this attack by running from the scourge instead of attacking mutas head-on.
Again, what exactly do you think was different up to this point? becuase that's when the game essentially ended for stork.
Mmm, I guess you must be right then, I didn't recall the early game progression being that similar, but if it was: how can you say THAT was the reason Z won that game on that map which is what the original poster was implieing. That game was won and lost for completely different reasons.
"Actually, that game was nothing like this! are you sure you're remembering that one correctly lol? The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus"
which I showed was completely wrong. Why does aphelion's statement even matter at all when I have shown that your claim on this matter: -- how they got there being differnt -- was completely false.
But I didn't claim how they got there as being different? I used the very general statement of: "that game was nothing like this" and by this, i clearly meant in my mind why that game was lost and won in response for the original poster drawing the connection between the two and citing it as a reason. I'm sorry if I sounded pompous, but you can see my intentions were honest...
point out to me where I try to defend aphelion's claim:
Exact same thing happened to Free vs Yellow[arnc] on this map. PvZ looks really fucking hard on this map, everything the zerg does is pretty much impossible to scout.
Did I say "pvz hard on map -_-"? Did I say something along the lines of "scouting the zerg so hard"?
No. I simply state how YOUR assertion that the two games' progressions were entirely differnt, is completely wrong.
Stop trying to bend it in a differnent direction and accept that you fucked up.
But I DIDNT say you were "defending" the original poster OR that the "two games progressions were entirely different". To quote myself: "that game was nothing like this!" is a very general statement and I've tried my best to point out what I meant with "this". I admit I didn't have an exact memory of how that game STARTED, but remembering the game overall, I posted what I posted.
You said yourself you had to rewatch the game right? But since I was operating on just general memory, that's why I said they were different.
And I just want to defend myself... do I really sound like that's not what I meant? I'm sorry then...
I would report but I don't know WHERE this is happening. But DG runs his dropships in, loses two, drops stuff to kill some gols, and reinforces with ground army. GF responds by dropping stuff out of 6 of his own ships to help out.
On April 19 2007 23:06 Aphelion02 wrote: Exact same thing happened to Free vs Yellow[arnc] on this map. PvZ looks really fucking hard on this map, everything the zerg does is pretty much impossible to scout.
Actually, that game was nothing like this! are you sure you're remembering that one correctly lol? The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus
LOLOLOLOLOOLOLOL WHAT ??? I just watched free vs yarnc, and the game progression was literally IDENTICAL. 14 nexus -> gate -> forge core -> stargate -> robo vs 1 hatch muta with 2nd hatch mining gas
mutas fly in, kill nat nexus, go to the tech area, kill cannon there, and begin to confront the protoss air army with muta scourge. Meanwhile both free and stork were clearing the east nat, warping cannons, and getting nexus in the proper position. Literally identical events in the same exact order.
Literally the only differnece was how free/stork responded to this attack by running from the scourge instead of attacking mutas head-on.
Again, what exactly do you think was different up to this point? becuase that's when the game essentially ended for stork.
Mmm, I guess you must be right then, I didn't recall the early game progression being that similar, but if it was: how can you say THAT was the reason Z won that game on that map which is what the original poster was implieing. That game was won and lost for completely different reasons.
Oops :EDIT screwed up post but fixed it
What?
I responded to this statement of yours:
"Actually, that game was nothing like this! are you sure you're remembering that one correctly lol? The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus"
which I showed was completely wrong. Why does aphelion's statement even matter at all when I have shown that your claim on this matter: -- how they got there being differnt -- was completely false.
But I didn't claim how they got there as being different? I used the very general statement of: "that game was nothing like this" and by this, i clearly meant in my mind why that game was lost and won in response for the original poster drawing the connection between the two and citing it as a reason. I'm sorry if I sounded pompous, but you can see my intentions were honest...
so now you are saying that you DIDNT claim that the progression to that point was different?
Well I guess my english skills have really gone downhill now, because I don't see any other way of interpreting
The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus
as anything else.
even with respect to the statement "that game was nothing like this", how can you begin to support this argument when the movement of the mutalisks and scourge, the buildings that were destroyed, the protoss' reaction by expanding to the other natural, could NOT have been more similar. The ONLY differences were (a) spawn loaction (b) scouting path of sair (c) the way the toss responded to the muta scourge attack. And obviously (c) was the only thing pertinent, as (a) and (b) did not prevent the game from progressing identically up to point (c). And at (c), free made a decision that kept him in the game, while stork made a decision that cost him the game.
That is ONE difference at the very end of the game, the reason why the results were different in these two identical games.
On April 19 2007 23:33 entityrj wrote: But I DIDNT say you were "defending" the original poster OR that the "two games progressions were entirely different". To quote myself: "that game was nothing like this!" is a very general statement and I've tried my best to point out what I meant with "this". I admit I didn't have an exact memory of how that game STARTED, but remembering the game overall, I posted what I posted.
You said yourself you had to rewatch the game right? But since I was operating on just general memory, that's why I said they were different.
And I just want to defend myself... do I really sound like that's not what I meant? I'm sorry then...
On April 19 2007 23:33 entityrj wrote: You said yourself you had to rewatch the game right? But since I was operating on just general memory, that's why I said they were different.
You operated on FALSE presumptions and put down a poster based on this false information. What is your point.
On April 19 2007 23:06 Aphelion02 wrote: Exact same thing happened to Free vs Yellow[arnc] on this map. PvZ looks really fucking hard on this map, everything the zerg does is pretty much impossible to scout.
Actually, that game was nothing like this! are you sure you're remembering that one correctly lol? The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus
LOLOLOLOLOOLOLOL WHAT ??? I just watched free vs yarnc, and the game progression was literally IDENTICAL. 14 nexus -> gate -> forge core -> stargate -> robo vs 1 hatch muta with 2nd hatch mining gas
mutas fly in, kill nat nexus, go to the tech area, kill cannon there, and begin to confront the protoss air army with muta scourge. Meanwhile both free and stork were clearing the east nat, warping cannons, and getting nexus in the proper position. Literally identical events in the same exact order.
Literally the only differnece was how free/stork responded to this attack by running from the scourge instead of attacking mutas head-on.
Again, what exactly do you think was different up to this point? becuase that's when the game essentially ended for stork.
Mmm, I guess you must be right then, I didn't recall the early game progression being that similar, but if it was: how can you say THAT was the reason Z won that game on that map which is what the original poster was implieing. That game was won and lost for completely different reasons.
Oops :EDIT screwed up post but fixed it
What?
I responded to this statement of yours:
"Actually, that game was nothing like this! are you sure you're remembering that one correctly lol? The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus"
which I showed was completely wrong. Why does aphelion's statement even matter at all when I have shown that your claim on this matter: -- how they got there being differnt -- was completely false.
But I didn't claim how they got there as being different? I used the very general statement of: "that game was nothing like this" and by this, i clearly meant in my mind why that game was lost and won in response for the original poster drawing the connection between the two and citing it as a reason. I'm sorry if I sounded pompous, but you can see my intentions were honest...
so now you are saying that you DIDNT claim that the progression to that point was different?
Well I guess my english skills have really gone downhill now, because I don't see any other way of interpreting
The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus
as anything else.
even with respect to the statement "that game was nothing like this", how can you begin to support this argument when the movement of the mutalisks and scourge, the buildings that were destroyed, the protoss' reaction by expanding to the other natural, could NOT have been more similar. The ONLY differences were (a) spawn loaction (b) scouting path of sair (c) the way the toss responded to the muta scourge attack. And obviously (c) was the only thing pertinent, as (a) and (b) did not prevent the game from progressing identically up to point (c). And at (c), free made a decision that kept him in the game, while stork made a decision that cost him the game.
That is ONE difference at the very end of the game, the reason why the results were different in these two identical games.
I understand what you mean, but I just want to make it clear that the difference resulted in a much longer game, with my memory recalling most of that extenstion, and that's why I said they were "entirely different", the whole game ended up very differently after all didn't it?
And when I said "how they got there", that's exactly what I meant, that game played out much longer and quite differently didn't it? I know you have a superior knowledge of that game than me and you've shown it, but you keep responding as if I had savagely posted an ignorant response when all I was saying was I remember them being different!! and you can see why I remember that!!
I'm very sorry then to the original poster and haji, I really meant no harm.
Edit: I know this is bothering everyone and as someone said, nobody cares, but I've tried to explain myself as best I could.
On April 19 2007 23:06 Aphelion02 wrote: Exact same thing happened to Free vs Yellow[arnc] on this map. PvZ looks really fucking hard on this map, everything the zerg does is pretty much impossible to scout.
Actually, that game was nothing like this! are you sure you're remembering that one correctly lol? The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus
LOLOLOLOLOOLOLOL WHAT ??? I just watched free vs yarnc, and the game progression was literally IDENTICAL. 14 nexus -> gate -> forge core -> stargate -> robo vs 1 hatch muta with 2nd hatch mining gas
mutas fly in, kill nat nexus, go to the tech area, kill cannon there, and begin to confront the protoss air army with muta scourge. Meanwhile both free and stork were clearing the east nat, warping cannons, and getting nexus in the proper position. Literally identical events in the same exact order.
Literally the only differnece was how free/stork responded to this attack by running from the scourge instead of attacking mutas head-on.
Again, what exactly do you think was different up to this point? becuase that's when the game essentially ended for stork.
Mmm, I guess you must be right then, I didn't recall the early game progression being that similar, but if it was: how can you say THAT was the reason Z won that game on that map which is what the original poster was implieing. That game was won and lost for completely different reasons.
Oops :EDIT screwed up post but fixed it
What?
I responded to this statement of yours:
"Actually, that game was nothing like this! are you sure you're remembering that one correctly lol? The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus"
which I showed was completely wrong. Why does aphelion's statement even matter at all when I have shown that your claim on this matter: -- how they got there being differnt -- was completely false.
But I didn't claim how they got there as being different? I used the very general statement of: "that game was nothing like this" and by this, i clearly meant in my mind why that game was lost and won in response for the original poster drawing the connection between the two and citing it as a reason. I'm sorry if I sounded pompous, but you can see my intentions were honest...
so now you are saying that you DIDNT claim that the progression to that point was different?
Well I guess my english skills have really gone downhill now, because I don't see any other way of interpreting
The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus
as anything else.
even with respect to the statement "that game was nothing like this", how can you begin to support this argument when the movement of the mutalisks and scourge, the buildings that were destroyed, the protoss' reaction by expanding to the other natural, could NOT have been more similar. The ONLY differences were (a) spawn loaction (b) scouting path of sair (c) the way the toss responded to the muta scourge attack. And obviously (c) was the only thing pertinent, as (a) and (b) did not prevent the game from progressing identically up to point (c). And at (c), free made a decision that kept him in the game, while stork made a decision that cost him the game.
That is ONE difference at the very end of the game, the reason why the results were different in these two identical games.
I understand what you mean, but I just want to make it clear that the difference resulted in a much longer game, with my memory recalling most of that extenstion, and that's why I said they were "entirely different", the whole game ended up very differently after all didn't it?
How does comparing the end-game of a 40 minute game to that of a 10 minute game even begin to make any sense. The entire dynamics of the game are different when the match has progressed that far, and to even try to compare the two situations on equal grounds is absurd.
If you want to make a comparision, you compare EQUIVALENT parts of the game, especially when the games mirrored each other so closely in the beginning minutes. As I have said numerous times by now, up to the point where Stork tapped out, there was only ONE major difference: the way in which the initial air battle was carried out.
You are digging yourself into an even deeper hole by beginning to claim that you compared parts of games that are on entirely different scales.
On April 19 2007 23:50 thedeadhaji wrote: You are digging yourself into an even deeper hole by beginning to claim that you compared parts of games that are on entirely different scales. If I were you I would stop digging.
You are COMPLETELY right, that's what I've been trying to say, I incorrectly compared the games based on time instead of their builds. I thought it was an innocent mistake, but apparently it wasn't ok? I long ago stopped trying to defend anything I've said and just settled for ending this without you thinking i'm worth your contempt.
Apparently, I can't even do that alright?! If I sound like I'm hurt, I AM. I'm not some anonymous internet user, I actually care what you think and it hurts alright? That's why I keep trying to explain, but I see it's useles.
On April 20 2007 00:03 roadrunner_sc wrote: How was the 1st match? GF vs GGplay? I missed the first half, apparently GF screwed up a push?
It was a pretty good game, GF got caught in the middle with a pretty neat flank by GG and lost his entire push at that point, that set him back pretty bad and he lost the game shortly afterwards.
On April 19 2007 23:50 thedeadhaji wrote: You are digging yourself into an even deeper hole by beginning to claim that you compared parts of games that are on entirely different scales. If I were you I would stop digging.
You are COMPLETELY right, that's what I've been trying to say, I incorrectly compared the games based on time instead of their builds. I thought it was an innocent mistake, but apparently it wasn't ok? I long ago stopped trying to defend anything I've said and just settled for ending this without you thinking i'm worth your contempt.
Apparently, I can't even do that alright?! If I sound like I'm hurt, I AM. I'm not some anonymous internet user, I actually care what you think and it hurts alright? That's why I keep trying to explain, but I see it's useles.
entityrj, nobody is buying what your saying. Its pretty obvious that your just giving ground inch by inch and trying to redirect the argument, whereas its obvious that you were just wrong from the very start.
You tried to claim that the two games were entirely different, and further stated that although the endings were similar, the process was entirely different. Haji caught you immediately by pointing out that actually the initial builds and troop movements were almost identical, (ie, the PROCESS was the same) , just that superior game management by Free resulted in a far longer game that ended in a different manner, hence it was the ENDINGS that were different. This is the OPPOSITE of what you said.
You should have realized that you were beat at this point and just shut up, but instead, you further dug the hole for yourself by attempting to confuse the issue, first by claiming that you were disputing my claims, secondly saying that you were referring to the overall character of the games. You knew perfect well that this was an disingenuous distortion of meaning to attempt to save face, and that this was clearly never the initial argument. Haji wouldn't take it of course, and now you had to somehow try to state that there was no disagreement all along. This is WRONG, and if your image and ego were hurt, this is squarely because of your continual twisting of facts instead of frankly and candidly admitting your mistake. NO ONE is trying to hold you in contempt, NO ONE is out to get you, but you refusal to admit mistake is infuriating and frustrating, particularly after you started out on such a tone of arrogance. Don't try to play the victim here, you have only yourself to blame.
Stork sexy shuttle trades 2 tanks ~ 3 rines and a few scvs.
Oh noes wraith out for GF.
3 advancing goons revenge their reaver friend.
Another drop attempt by GF, pulled back to defend. CC done built not lifted. Stork expo at min only fully operational. Attempts break in with 4-5 goons + shuttle, fails with wall in place at ramp.
WTF?!?!?!?! Like 70 health on the cc left and stork backs off for 3 goons sake. He's gonna run in a gain so nvm. I guess that's fine. More gates being built.
Now I don't know what you want, I gave as sincere an apology as I could. I tried to move on, that's what people do when they've made mistakes, apologize, get hurt, and move on.
You want a more complete apology? what face do I have to save anymore? Why would I say the games were completely different if I hadn't thought they were? Even you understand why I thought they were different right?
But I was wrong, I don't have as complete a knowledge of starcraft as most players, so I didn't compare the things that made the two games the same. That's what you both said and I agree and apologize specifically for that too then.
I wasn't trying to be arrogant, do I sound arrogant anymore? Can an arrogant jerk be reduced to humility and groveling to people he's not even facing, so easily? I'm being so frank because it doesn't matter anymore.
I didn't know you were insulted by what I said and were still here, I wronged you, I apologize.
Edit: I thought i quoted Aphelion's post, but It didn't register, so to clarify, this is directed at Aphelion, sorry to bother everyone.
On April 20 2007 00:25 em.and.m wrote: I honestly dont get why they cant play two matches at 1400 Korea time..
I think it's probably because they want to play more at their 6:30 time. More viewers for them at that time. It's inconvenient for us in other places than Korea, but for them, it's much more convenient.
On April 20 2007 00:21 entityrj wrote: Now I don't know what you want, I gave as sincere an apology as I could. I tried to move on, that's what people do when they've made mistakes, apologize, get hurt, and move on.
You want a more complete apology? what face do I have to save anymore? Why would I say the games were completely different if I hadn't thought they were? Even you understand why I thought they were different right?
But I was wrong, I don't have as complete a knowledge of starcraft as most players, so I didn't compare the things that made the two games the same. That's what you both said and I agree and apologize specifically for that too then.
I wasn't trying to be arrogant, do I sound arrogant anymore? Can an arrogant jerk be reduced to humility and groveling to people he's not even facing, so easily? I'm being so frank because it doesn't matter anymore.
I didn't know you were insulted by what I said and were still here, I wronged you, I apologize.
Edit: I thought i quoted Aphelion's post, but It didn't register, so to clarify, this is directed at Aphelion, sorry to bother everyone.
I stated my objections in my post very clearly, and I stand by them. I see no reason to continue this argument, but if you insist on it take it to the PMs.
On April 20 2007 00:39 Aphelion02 wrote: I stated my objections in my post very clearly, and I stand by them. I see no reason to continue this argument, but if you insist on it take it to the PMs.
It's not an argument, I want to give an apology that is good enough to be accepted.
Here's my original post, unedited, word for word: Actually, that game was nothing like this! are you sure you're remembering that one correctly lol? The end result is the same but how they got there... jesus
In real life, that would be forgivable post wouldn't it, if someone apologized to you for it? All I want to do is to be able to convey a real-life apology. Was it such a horrible post that no amount of "sorry's and i was wrong's" make up for it?
I mean, was it really so terrible that you and haji can't forgive me for it?
Edit: Ok I'll PM you, sorry I didn't know what PM meant when I first read it, was distracted. Thank you.
the good thing is reach showed amazing play-style on arcanoid. i think he will meet sea there and probably win. after that sea shield will qualify too after winning darkelf()
On April 20 2007 03:25 Manifesto7 wrote: Sea is getting stomped.
I wouldn't say stomped..
He had a huge army and only just now failed to do anything with it, like shutting down hiya's free main expo's. Just now got a crapload of tanks crushed at hiya main but he wasnt getting stomped imo.
On April 20 2007 03:25 Manifesto7 wrote: Sea is getting stomped.
I wouldn't say stomped..
He had a huge army and only just now failed to do anything with it, like shutting down hiya's free main expo's. Just now got a crapload of tanks crushed at hiya main but he wasnt getting stomped imo.
It isnt my fault hoa turned into a goddamn vegetable half way through the game.
amazing macro display by sea in this game. hiya did a good job until mid game as well but didn't manage to do any major damage when he could and sea just kept all his expos and outplayed hiya from then on
basically... Reach lost Then in a 40-min TvT Sea made a comeback and beat Hiya Now there' s a TvT on Arkanoid (so go back to sleep for another half hour)
On April 20 2007 04:08 AlexanderTheGreat wrote: break down of every tvt on that map. They macro whore. go for tank/goly drops. one of the players macro whores and drops better then the other. gg
Dont forget about those golden games when both players go mass-bcs and both players wait for the other player to take the initative.
On April 20 2007 04:08 AlexanderTheGreat wrote: break down of every tvt on that map. They macro whore. go for tank/goly drops. one of the players macro whores and drops better then the other. gg
Dont forget about those golden games when both players go mass-bcs and both players wait for the other player to take the initative.
That Nada game where he had a million BCs and then yamamotod all his opponents bcs at the same time was golden.
considering the fact that he is lucky to train with ppl like forU,Xellos,Iris,Savior his hihg skill lvl is without a doubt, but the thing is he is 2 ugly and wins when he is supposed to lose!
On April 20 2007 04:20 Da_PlayerX wrote: considering the fact that he is lucky to train with ppl like forU,Xellos,Iris,Savior his hihg skill lvl is without a doubt, but the thing is he is 2 ugly and wins when he is supposed to lose!
On April 20 2007 04:08 AlexanderTheGreat wrote: break down of every tvt on that map. They macro whore. go for tank/goly drops. one of the players macro whores and drops better then the other. gg
Dont forget about those golden games when both players go mass-bcs and both players wait for the other player to take the initative.
That Nada game where he had a million BCs and then yamamotod all his opponents bcs at the same time was golden.
Was that not agaisnt Dongrae on Arkanoid? ;\ that just shows you, a second is all it takes to turn the tables in sc.
two dropships head towards toss and drop 2 tanks and 4 gol vs like 2 goon, but a dweb on it makes it a little more even for the protoss. reach still loses battle, and now 1zeal 2 goon come vs 3gol 2tank
oh, reinforcements, another goon, and reach beats back the drop
terran loadin up for another big drop - 3 dropships worth of gols. doesn't do much with them though, he's just still in base. 4 carriers now for reach, 3base each still
lol reach pounding away on rax of terran
dropships head to reach, but turn around
going for some neutral building break instead i guess
ooh ht out for reach, he's moving out into the middle with zeal/goon/temp/carrier/sair
terran still clearing random neutral buildings around the map
THEY ENGAGE but ht too far back to storm
terran sieges up! they attack!
carrier over open ground, this isn't good, but terran drives back OH TERRAN DROPPED IN PROTOSS BASE THIS MAP IS HOMO
reach sent back carriers to defend, lost TWO CARRIER THREE CARRIER GOD REACH WTF asofniaosifdnaosdfn
won that battle in middle though, and now pushing into terran main. shit storm, but now fighting 3 goon vs 2 gol 1 tank. focus fires the gol, of course. terran defending with scv's, and ht stormed that shit
why are you attacking with 2 ht 2 sair and 1 goon against reinforcements OH his shit comes in but he lost his sair and the dwebs T_T
6 goon 3 carrier going into terran main
WTF STORMING FROM REACH GOD THIS ISN'T MUDANG AT ALL
goons rallied to terran base it seems, forcing terran to defend with scv's cause he only has one tank out at a time
To my newbie eyes it looks like sea is having to make considerable concessions to deal with this, and reach seems to be at least keeping up in tech. How far off am I?
Reachs Bo didnt do enough damage. Now he seems to go for dts. If on THIS map u dont do any damage with early cheese you are fucked. I would be surprised if reach can still make this.. lets see i trust <3
Lol infinity.. reach not making osl would suck even more. Especially since we already have so much t's but it looks already over for reach.. his early strat didnt succeed and now he is playing on a hard map PvT.. t_T
LOL goldish move from sea getting his vult through 2 neutral buildings ;D luckily sea is too defensive.. thats the only chance for reach to still somehow make it..
he lost all his units not attacking at the same time leaving some behind ect.. then loses carriers well i thought he might still win this but its just ..
at one time his micro is godly then he suddenly loses everything T_T
Ok reach wtf Im afraid to say that the last two minutes were just OUTSTANDING because i think u might fuck up again but seriously.. Reachs micro is just lovely at certain points.. my godness =)
Yea he had a great unit mix all the time and sea just kept losing small battles, and Reach almost all the time had one more expansion running fully, Sea basically just traded units while losing the economy fight
Reachs play was so good after his failed rush.. I cant believe after seeing this that reach is known for his absurd macro. At some points his reaver micro and his storms were absolutelty nuts. The fight at the very thiny entrance to his main was ridicolous ! Sea had like what ? 6 - 7 tanks and 12 ore mor gols. reach had shuttle with 4 zeals 5-7 goons a archon a few zeals and 2 hts.. T_T
I think Sea needs some credit here too cos that was a fucking awesome game by both players. The number of times i thought Reach had it won then Sea turned around and swatted 2-3 carriers or pimped some HTs or something =]
this game is incredible. I still dont have no fucking idea how he could break the contain in the entrance to expo @ 1. When i saw he was trying to do that, I said to myself, oh fuck u fool, dont do that. But few seconds later, my jaw drop, wtf, that was beautiful
On April 20 2007 05:23 MaGic~PhiL wrote: Reachs play was so good after his failed rush.. I cant believe after seeing this that reach is known for his absurd macro. At some points his reaver micro and his storms were absolutelty nuts. The fight at the very thiny entrance to his main was ridicolous ! Sea had like what ? 6 - 7 tanks and 12 ore mor gols. reach had shuttle with 4 zeals 5-7 goons a archon a few zeals and 2 hts.. T_T
Reach is known for his Mudang Storms (Mudang means like shaman) because of their accuracy and intuitivness.
He is also known for brilliant macro, micro, timing, strategy, and ability to procreate.
seriously im SO used to seeing PvT battles where P has 3 groups onf units and more and T just has a huge mass and P barely wins the fight or loses everything. Thats the first time i saw a T having the bigger army and still not winning it. Reach was so low on units all the time. He just won this with storms, great reaver micro..
For me this is definitely the game of the month. This PvT was inspiring. Beautyful =)
On April 20 2007 05:26 hixhix wrote: this game is incredible. I still dont have no fucking idea how he could break the contain in the entrance to expo @ 1. When i saw he was trying to do that, I said to myself, oh fuck u fool, dont do that. But few seconds later, my jaw drop, wtf, that was beautiful
See that's what's so special about him. He doesnt only have good macro, he has this fucking SICK micro too. Watch his highlight VOD if you havent.
Poll: Best game of the day? ODT Group E (Vote): Group E : GGPlay < Longinus 2 > GoodFrienD (Vote): Group E : Stork[gm] < Longinus 2 > dOnGraE[s.G] (Vote): Group E : Winners< Neo Arkanoid > (Vote): Group E : Losers< Neo Arkanoid > (Vote): Group E : Finals< Hitchhiker >
ODT Group F (Vote): Group F : [Oops]Reach < Longinus 2 > DaRkeLf[s.SiR] (Vote): Group F : HiyA[fOu]< Longinus 2 > Sea[Shield] (Vote): Group F : Winners< Neo Arkanoid > (Vote): Group F : Losers< Neo Arkanoid > (Vote): Group F : Finals< Hitchhiker >
On April 20 2007 05:28 MaGic~PhiL wrote: seriously im SO used to seeing PvT battles where P has 3 groups onf units and more and T just has a huge mass and P barely wins the fight or loses everything. Thats the first time i saw a T having the bigger army and still not winning it. Reach was so low on units all the time. He just won this with storms, great reaver micro..
For me this is definitely the game of the month. This PvT was inspiring. Beautyful =)
so true! i seriously didn believe some of the stuff reach played this game. Not only did he do great in attacks, but when it seemed like he is using 100% concentration for holding sea off, i see he got carriers//new base in the meantime. Art game!
the first push with like 10 tanks down the middle seemed like it was gg. Reach was always ahead in expo but he had SO LITTLE UNITS. I really duno how he held him back. Amazing storms and zealot micro. And HERO REAVERS
And it amazes me how anyone can even break a contain of that magnitude through a small ass choke point like that. HOW seriously
On April 20 2007 03:49 HonestTea wrote: I hate to do this
but honestly?
My protoss hopes have moved on to others.
On April 20 2007 02:20 Lx_Rogue wrote: FOR THE SWARM
oh wait hes playing PvT isnt he, well...for the UED!
You heretics! The inquisition is coming after you first. YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT, HERO'S BACK
On April 19 2007 09:50 Hot_Bid wrote: We believe in you Reach, just be decisive and aggressive (i.e. do everything you can--proxy, drops, cannons, carriers, nakedness--anything so that the Terran cannot set up a push at your natural).
Reach did everything that HB listed 'cept get naked. And he still got nat-pushed. BUT HE WON ANYWAYS
OMG REACH WON!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! YESS + Show Spoiler +
just watched game on utube holy god it was amazing! I was like "NO wai he lost... he can't win against that!" but again and again he just REFUSE TO DIE! Jesus!
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/KizZBG/odtbanner.jpg)
Between Stork, GGplay and Reach, at least one's not gonna advance. I have a feeling it's gonna be reach.
![[image loading]](http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/warner_brothers/300/300_well2.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://image.fighterforum.com/showImage.asp?realFile=FFPHOT20070421063553015.JPG)
