EPT
Afreeca Starleague Season 2
Afreeca Starleague Season 2![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZpDsafx.png)
Casters & Hosts
Streams
Afreeca TV (BisuDagger and FlashFTW)
twitch TV (Tasteless/Rapid and Artosis)
ASL Youtube Channel with both English and Korean Stream
[ASL2] Semifinals: Sea vs BeSt
| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Afreeca TV (BisuDagger and FlashFTW) twitch TV (Tasteless/Rapid and Artosis) ASL Youtube Channel with both English and Korean Stream | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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phosphorylation
United States2935 Posts
Figthing! | ||
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byj
494 Posts
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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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LittLeLives
United States692 Posts
The BeSt is yet to come. But he cannot part a ready Sea! 500th post for Sea fighting! | ||
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
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FusionCutter
Canada974 Posts
50/50... could be either player. here's hoping for a Game 5. | ||
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atrox_
United Kingdom1711 Posts
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
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thezanursic
5497 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
Oh wait, it's BROOOOOD WARRRRR!!! | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
Head: BeSt Hoping for epic games! | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On January 15 2017 18:06 FusionCutter wrote: Just like the old days....!! Hype! can't be the old days, Sea made it past the ro16 + Show Spoiler + okay fine he made a quarterfinals once | ||
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pettter
Sweden1032 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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ZoW
United States3983 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4138 Posts
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
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Miragee
8584 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:11 classicyellow83 wrote: NeOx vs Moo. Now that I think about it, you're spot on haha | ||
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Memphis404
51 Posts
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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:16 Memphis404 wrote: Sea already knows he's going home after this series. ...To rest and prepare to take on Flash in the final? | ||
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4138 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:15 Miragee wrote: The stream is buffering to death right now. It also stops sound at certain points. What's wrong? Use the Twitch one | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:21 gngfn wrote: Did Best accomplish anything? My stream lagged throughout the important part... Maybe a little but not too much | ||
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:21 gngfn wrote: Did Best accomplish anything? My stream lagged throughout the important part... it was okay, but Sea is ahead here. | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
BD and FlashFTW don't have a Twitch Stream but thanks. It somehow fixed itself now. Sea handled this push very well imho. I think he is quite ahead now. | ||
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pettter
Sweden1032 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
Twitch stream with tastosis is working fine. | ||
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:23 pettter wrote: Lots of lag, just me? Just you | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
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Miragee
8584 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2719 Posts
protip: Never proxy gate in the first game of the series | ||
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
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thezanursic
5497 Posts
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
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pettter
Sweden1032 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:24 Terrorbladder wrote: lul protip: Never proxy gate in the first game of the series no, that's not the issue the issue is trying to proxy gate gas steal on a 4 player map | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4138 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Poll: Recommend game 1? If you have time (15) yes (10) no (7) 32 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 1? | ||
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HaFnium
United Kingdom1074 Posts
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10227 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13287 Posts
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LittLeLives
United States692 Posts
 Dat runby. If Fantasy is the terrorist, Sea is natural order. | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:25 BigFan wrote: Poll: Recommend game 1? If you have time (15) yes (10) no (7) 32 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 1? Hö. Why are people voting so generally positive? If this was the exact same game from some lesser known players the majority would vote 'No' | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12023 Posts
*copies Sea* | ||
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:29 TheNewEra wrote: Hö. Why are people voting so generally positive? If this was the exact same game from some lesser known players the majority would vote 'No' agreed, genuinely uninteresting game. i voted "no". | ||
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:29 TheNewEra wrote: Hö. Why are people voting so generally positive? If this was the exact same game from some lesser known players the majority would vote 'No' it's a short game and Sea did some neat things with vultures also there's something cathartic about watching proxy gate getting shutdown | ||
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
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LittLeLives
United States692 Posts
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:35 LittLeLives wrote: Afreeca should merchandise the ASL jerseys and (promote that they) use a percentage of those funds for prize pool. At least Doto players get a Battle Pass that can pay for itself, just saying. My wallet is ready | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:31 Cele wrote: agreed, genuinely uninteresting game. i voted "no". I usually vote rather negatively. In this case I voted "if you have time" because Sea played that very well. If one player plays really well, then there is at least something to see. On top of it, it was a short game, so not as much of a waste of time. | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:39 Miragee wrote: I usually vote rather negatively. In this case I voted "if you have time" because Sea played that very well. If one player plays really well, then there is at least something to see. On top of it, it was a short game, so not as much of a waste of time. Yeah I see your side. I just think if you put the names Hint vs Ample or sth. in place of Sea vs BeSt suddenly most wouldn't care for the reasons you provided at all and just vote 'No' | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:42 TheNewEra wrote: Yeah I see your side. I just think if you put the names Hint vs Ample or sth. in place of Sea vs BeSt suddenly most wouldn't care for the reasons you provided at all and just vote 'No' I mean, the game developed and ended in a very unusual way and that would still be true if it was Hint vs Apple | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
wait wuuuutttt BEST???? | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
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atrox_
United Kingdom1711 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
usually you don't want to recall into where the terran army is definitely going to be sieged up unless you're recalling right on top of the tanks | ||
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2719 Posts
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
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atrox_
United Kingdom1711 Posts
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:42 TheNewEra wrote: Yeah I see your side. I just think if you put the names Hint vs Ample or sth. in place of Sea vs BeSt suddenly most wouldn't care for the reasons you provided at all and just vote 'No' Yeah, I would vote "No" on a Hint vs Ample game regardless of whether it was good or not. In fact, it just couldn't be good by default. Joke of course. FUCKING 6 TANKS IN ONE STASIS! I feel like the only reason Best is still looking so good after this horrendous recall is because of 14 nex vs siege expand. Great headstart. | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD GEEEEEEEEEGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE | ||
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:50 Heartland wrote: Has anyone ever retreated an army with recall? I've seen it but it's quite the rare play | ||
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sasvorti00
Hungary90 Posts
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:50 Heartland wrote: Has anyone ever retreated an army with recall? No, the game must be really really scrappy to make a recall retreat a good choice. //Tbf, in this case it would have been ok but what he did was probably the better choice still. He didn't have enough energy and by the time he had he was in his base and used the energy to reinforce his troops in the base. | ||
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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
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REDBLUEGREEN
Germany1904 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:50 Heartland wrote: Has anyone ever retreated an army with recall? I have seen it a couple of times with carriers. | ||
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thezanursic
5497 Posts
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10227 Posts
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HaFnium
United Kingdom1074 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10227 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:53 arbiter_md wrote: Is youtube still lagging? I hate tastosis commentary but twitch doesn't lag at least. http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2 come watch us instead :D | ||
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LittLeLives
United States692 Posts
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:53 arbiter_md wrote: Is youtube still lagging? I hate tastosis commentary but twitch doesn't lag at least. Try the afreeca stream? It lagged for me in the beginning but not anymore. | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:52 Elyvilon wrote: I've seen it but it's quite the rare play Yeah this. And the times I've seen it, it's usually gg when it happens | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Poll: Recommend game 2? yes (26) If you have time (5) no (0) 31 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 2? | ||
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10227 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:55 LittLeLives wrote: The first recall shouldn't have got through. Great Arbiter play by Best and punishing Sea at the bridge. first recall was so bad anyways though. was really disappointed taht sea couldnt make the push work there. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19295 Posts
On January 15 2017 19:50 Heartland wrote: Has anyone ever retreated an army with recall? Most defensive recalls come from Protoss being either trapped in the main or 4/5th base and they need to recall the units out in order to surround the terran army instead of funneling the army down a ramp into tanks. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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HaFnium
United Kingdom1074 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:01 HaFnium wrote: maybe sea should have scoued best's main instead? you'd know if best is proxying or not anyway looking at the base.... those 20 or so seconds make a big difference when you're talking about proxies | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
2 fac | ||
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utelektr
United States109 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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hitthat
Poland2267 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
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HaFnium
United Kingdom1074 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
otoh I think it means there's a good chance that he's dead within like 5 minutes | ||
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
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Miragee
8584 Posts
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thezanursic
5497 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:10 Heartland wrote: he has to go to third base to get it all up? can you reword this, I'm not sure what you're asking | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:11 Elyvilon wrote: can you reword this, I'm not sure what you're asking It's what Tastosis said. I was referring to how it sounds lewd. | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
5 arbiters uh oh | ||
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
AND HE GETS IT OFFFFFF | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:14 DwD wrote: How did that EMP not hit? LOL It did, classic stuff. | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:14 Ej_ wrote: Feels like Sea is winning the game 5 arbiters uh oh It's honestly pretty even right now. Would be nice to see the upgrades. //Protoss on 1-0 | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
what? | ||
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Nesto
Switzerland1318 Posts
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Miragee
8584 Posts
Best had the recall going before the EMP hit, then the EMP hit and the recall still came through. It's a "glitch" in the game. | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:17 Heartland wrote: how did a handful of vultures wreck all those goons? upgrades | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmSTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmSTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMm | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
Those storms! | ||
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
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byj
494 Posts
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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LittLeLives
United States692 Posts
THAT STASIS | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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hitthat
Poland2267 Posts
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phosphorylation
United States2935 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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Memphis404
51 Posts
GGGGGG | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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byj
494 Posts
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vndestiny
Singapore3441 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10227 Posts
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:25 Heartland wrote: Very well done by Best to manage to find that chink in the Terran armor just as things were beginning to look grim there was no point in that game at which point things were looking grim for best except for maaaaybe when the 2fac was coming | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13287 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
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juvenal
2448 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:25 Heartland wrote: Very well done by Best to manage to find that chink in the Terran armor just as things were beginning to look grim it might have appeared so, but Best really was in control this entire game, his economy was just too big. | ||
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thezanursic
5497 Posts
BeSt has been impressive especially that Ramp Storming | ||
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pettter
Sweden1032 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Poll: Recommend game 3? yes (49) no (2) If you have time (2) 53 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 3? | ||
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Virtuoso
United States119 Posts
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9517 Posts
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phosphorylation
United States2935 Posts
otherwise best will win every time EZ | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:26 Elyvilon wrote: there was no point in that game at which point thinks were looking grim for best except for maaaaybe when the 2fac was coming Yeah, my BW knowledge is weak. I thought though that Sea was snowballing really fast and ready to get to maxed out upgrades and a maxed out army even while Protoss had low upgrades and all his attacks got repelled. | ||
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10227 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4138 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33470 Posts
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vndestiny
Singapore3441 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Poll: Recommend game 3? yes (49) no (2) If you have time (2) 53 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 3? On January 15 2017 20:28 Dante08 wrote: If there was 1 thing I could patch in BW it would be the recall glitch lol. So annoying when you hit the Arbiter but it still gets the recall off. you get points for planning? | ||
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reminisce12
Australia318 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12023 Posts
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Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
when you start the recall, you use your energy. first comes the swirl at your units, then a second later the swirl at the arbiter. how is that a glitch when he emp hits after you started the spell and hence already used your energy? | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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FranzF1
Chile1710 Posts
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Virtuoso
United States119 Posts
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:28 Heartland wrote: Yeah, my BW knowledge is weak. I thought though that Sea was snowballing really fast and ready to get to maxed out upgrades and a maxed out army even while Protoss had low upgrades and all his attacks got repelled. Thing is, best was up at least 2 bases that entire time, so half the purpose of the recall is to keep Sea in his base killing units. Meanwhile, Best's next round of units is coming out of the gateways, and if Terran pushes out it's basically an allin because there's going to be an arbiter entering your base at least once a minute to recall another set of units, like clockwork. The fact that Protoss is trading inefficiently while doing that is basically irrelevant. | ||
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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:31 classicyellow83 wrote: 160,000 people watching this on afreeca =) I wonder how many viewers will tune in on Tuesday. | ||
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LittLeLives
United States692 Posts
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juvenal
2448 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:32 ZiggyPG wrote: I wonder how many viewers will tune in on Tuesday. I predict at least 10 to 15! | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:34 LittLeLives wrote: Demian. How likely are we to see Carriers? From Best? very very very unlikely. | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:30 Bakuryu wrote: THERE IS NO FUCKING RECALL GLITCH when you start the recall, you use your energy. first comes the swirl at your units, then a second later the swirl at the arbiter. how is that a glitch when he emp hits after you started the spell and hence already used your energy? That's why I put "glitch" in "" in my post. It's not really a glitch but it looks like one from a spectator perspective because you can't see the energy level. | ||
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Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:30 Bakuryu wrote: THERE IS NO FUCKING RECALL GLITCH when you start the recall, you use your energy. first comes the swirl at your units, then a second later the swirl at the arbiter. how is that a glitch when he emp hits after you started the spell and hence already used your energy? hmmmm what about this? ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/doFt1sW.gif) | ||
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thezanursic
5497 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OofQP26.png) BeSt vs Flash might make for a good Grand Finals | ||
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:31 classicyellow83 wrote: 160,000 people watching this on afreeca =) For a non-TaekBangLeeSsang game I'd say that's pretty good | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
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Miragee
8584 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:37 Epithet wrote: Does Best have a nickname in Korean or English? I can't think of anything better than BeSt | ||
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hitthat
Poland2267 Posts
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:29 Waxangel wrote: Sea playing checkers, Best playing StarCraft | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
It's the same. He had the arbiter on move-command and started the recall before he reached the base so the recall would come as soon as he reached the base. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:35 classicyellow83 wrote: Afreeca can't seem handle this many viewers. I thought I was the only one having trouble with Afreeca right now | ||
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hitthat
Poland2267 Posts
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:36 thezanursic wrote: BeSt vs Flash might make for a good Grand Finals Flash vs Best last 6 months Flash 49-16 Best. | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:32 Elyvilon wrote: Thing is, best was up at least 2 bases that entire time, so half the purpose of the recall is to keep Sea in his base killing units. Meanwhile, Best's next round of units is coming out of the gateways, and if Terran pushes out it's basically an allin because there's going to be an arbiter entering your base at least once a minute to recall another set of units, like clockwork. The fact that Protoss is trading inefficiently while doing that is basically irrelevant. thanks! | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:40 Miragee wrote: It's the same. He had the arbiter on move-command and started the recall before he reached the base so the recall would come as soon as he reached the base. I don't get it and even if that's true, it's not consistent with other spells. If I cast a storm far away and HTs get EMP'ed on the way, I'll get a "not enough energy" when they arrive at the location. | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:34 classicyellow83 wrote: From Best? very very very unlikely. Lol. I can't believe it either | ||
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thezanursic
5497 Posts
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juvenal
2448 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:45 endy wrote: I don't get it and even if that's true, it's not consistent with other spells. If I cast a storm far away and HTs get EMP'ed on the way, I'll get a "not enough energy" when they arrive at the location. the emp missed because emp is a bad spell | ||
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ahwala
Germany401 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:34 classicyellow83 wrote: From Best? very very very unlikely. :D | ||
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:45 endy wrote: I don't get it and even if that's true, it's not consistent with other spells. If I cast a storm far away and HTs get EMP'ed on the way, I'll get a "not enough energy" when they arrive at the location. I think they mean that the moment you press the recall, it starts the ~1 sec long animation. The arbiter itself can keep moving and not have any animations in itself but the recall has been cast around the time the emp missile is still in the air | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:45 endy wrote: I don't get it and even if that's true, it's not consistent with other spells. If I cast a storm far away and HTs get EMP'ed on the way, I'll get a "not enough energy" when they arrive at the location. It's because storm is instant, recall isn't. If you cast storm from afar, it won't use the energy until the HT comes in range. If it gets EMP'ed before then the HT doesn't have the energy once he gets in range. For recall however, you cast it, it uses the energy and the recall occurs 2-3 seconds later or so. So if you cast it, it uses up the energy. If the arbiter gets hit by an EMP then it can't remove the energy because the arbiter already used all of it. Then the actual recall occurs. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33470 Posts
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hitthat
Poland2267 Posts
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Memphis404
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Heartland
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
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Lithuania716 Posts
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United States840 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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Askalaphos
Germany772 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:50 Waxangel wrote: Really glad to see the return of a classic Brood War strat, "carriers into lose" Hahaha. exactly my thoughts! | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1711 Posts
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:50 Waxangel wrote: Really glad to see the return of a classic Brood War strat, "carriers into lose" lol :D On January 15 2017 20:51 Memphis404 wrote: Did my boy throw the game...? Yes. | ||
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
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HaFnium
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phosphorylation
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valaki
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[sc1f]eonzerg
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letian
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Hall0wed
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classicyellow83
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hitthat
Poland2267 Posts
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vndestiny
Singapore3441 Posts
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Poll: Recommend game 4? yes (21) If you have time (9) no (6) 36 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 4? | ||
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ZoW
United States3983 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
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Australia13287 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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United States10227 Posts
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hitthat
Poland2267 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:54 BigFan wrote: Poll: Recommend game 4? yes (21) If you have time (9) no (6) 36 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 4? I dont even know what to chose. Its both amazing and bad at the same time. | ||
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LittLeLives
United States692 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:54 classicyellow83 wrote: is Best tilting>? Win 2 consecutive games and tilt yourself. + Show Spoiler + The best. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12023 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10227 Posts
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Bonybony
6 Posts
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:55 HolydaKing wrote: I wonder if Best would have had a chance if he didn't throw away like 4+ carriers, even after he lost that base at 8-9? o'clock Probably yes I would say. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10227 Posts
yes. he could have prevented the push from pushing into his 3rd and 4th bases. but his control was absolutely garbage it was actually just sad to watch. | ||
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LittLeLives
United States692 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:56 FlaShFTW wrote: God protoss really need to learn how to use carriers. Stork needs to like, bootcamp protoss players into being able to use them properly becuase that was just pitiful. Maybe this was how BeSt got his body in the first place. 20 pushups for each fail game. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:57 Amui wrote: Thinking about it, Sea looked like he hid the fact that he knew about the carriers so that Best would overcommit on carriers, and he would just waltz over with a huge ball of them to just wipe out the interceptors. Dunno tbh, possible I guess but still odd to do. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19295 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:58 usopsama wrote: Didn't Stork go carriers on that map and destroyed his opponent? Stork is good with carriers though, isn't he? | ||
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:53 Sunyveil wrote: wowwwwwwww I did not think Sea could win that after the hidden expo went unscouted. I guess catching the probes in the middle of the map was the game changer The real game changer was best revealing characters and doing nothing with them. If Stork has 7 carriers the game is actually over basically no matter what else is going on in the game, but no other protoss has shown that capability | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:58 usopsama wrote: Didn't Stork go carriers on that map and destroyed his opponent? yes, it was against light, base trade scenario. | ||
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DarkNetHunter
1224 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:55 Epithet wrote: Unexpected expansion into unexpected carriers into unexpected thrown game Haha beautifully said. On January 15 2017 20:58 usopsama wrote: Didn't Stork go carriers on that map and destroyed his opponent? yep | ||
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neilmellor
China49 Posts
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thezanursic
5497 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:58 BisuDagger wrote: Terrible game from BeSt. I would like to see a game where both players play well lol. The early game was pretty fucking clever with that hidden expansion, but Carrier micro was poor, yes. | ||
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hitthat
Poland2267 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:58 BisuDagger wrote: Terrible game from BeSt. I would like to see a game where both players play well lol. Strategical game of Best was incredible. Its the decision making when he really fucked up. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
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Zera
Lithuania716 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:59 neilmellor wrote: The decision to go for carrier with such advantage is poor and weird... The decision was good, the execution was terrible. | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:59 neilmellor wrote: The decision to go for carrier with such advantage is poor and weird... I dunno, I thought they were a valid way to get even more ahead. | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:00 thezanursic wrote: The early game was pretty fucking clever with that hidden expansion, but Carrier micro was poor, yes. Not just the micro; you usually don't want to engage their main army with carriers, you want to destroy their bases. | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 15 2017 20:58 BisuDagger wrote: Terrible game from BeSt. I would like to see a game where both players play well lol. Sea played well in Game 3. He was just way too far behind all game. Also, Best didn't really play "bad" in game 1. | ||
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1711 Posts
bring it on,best! gosh... i'm still not over on bisu failing miserably vs sea... | ||
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darktreb
United States3016 Posts
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1711 Posts
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
r u 4 rela | ||
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maze.
Germany1392 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1711 Posts
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hitthat
Poland2267 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10227 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
so bloody boring. LOOL so bloody bad play by best lastgame | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:03 Elyvilon wrote: bbs r u 4 rela Wow, how long has it been since I have seen the "r u 4 rela" phrase the last time. xD | ||
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LittLeLives
United States692 Posts
uh oh | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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neilmellor
China49 Posts
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Memphis404
51 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
sea just got blind hard countered this game is 99.999% over | ||
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1711 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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GTR
51491 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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Miragee
8584 Posts
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1711 Posts
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:05 Elyvilon wrote: oh my god sea just got blind hard countered cyber 15 gate loses to bbs | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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c3rberUs
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FlaShFTW
United States10227 Posts
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Miragee
8584 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/T65q4zg.jpg) | ||
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ahwala
Germany401 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
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Lunaticman
Sweden1097 Posts
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1711 Posts
best!!!!!!!! no!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
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atrox_
United Kingdom1711 Posts
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phosphorylation
United States2935 Posts
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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
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Lunaticman
Sweden1097 Posts
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Piste
6180 Posts
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Askalaphos
Germany772 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66356 Posts
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Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
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neilmellor
China49 Posts
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hitthat
Poland2267 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13287 Posts
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Memphis404
51 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:05 GTR wrote: lol 10/15 vs bbs welp | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6248 Posts
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
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Lunaticman
Sweden1097 Posts
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ZoW
United States3983 Posts
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fazek42
Hungary438 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10227 Posts
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GTR
51491 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:07 Sunyveil wrote: I mean I don't know the timing of when dragoons are supposed to pop but it felt like Best didn't start production until he saw the marines you dont have enough money because you're trying to get the 2nd gate + range before pumping goons. | ||
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vndestiny
Singapore3441 Posts
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Miragee
8584 Posts
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:07 TheNewEra wrote: I'm really salty right now | ||
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1711 Posts
with all the late game in most games, can't believe game 5 just went like that | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Now we might get a shit tvt instead.................................................................. No wonder he never got #1 protoss with this shit mentally head | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
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Lunaticman
Sweden1097 Posts
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
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KungKras
Sweden484 Posts
So good games overall though! | ||
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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:08 GTR wrote: you dont have enough money because you're trying to get the 2nd gate + range before pumping goons. I see, that explains it then | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:06 usopsama wrote: LOL these images. First the Jaedong/Stork one, now this. Wtf is wrong with people.^^ | ||
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:08 letian wrote: well fuck, cheeser You mean like BeSt tried in game1? Don't be so salty lol. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12023 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:08 Foxxan wrote: bloody best, seriously wtf do he go this super risky shit build for, without scouting even holy fuck Now we might get a shit tvt instead.................................................................. No wonder he never got #1 protoss with this shit mentally head Shit TvT? It'll be a TvT between arguably the best TvTers at the minute. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Poll: Recommend game 5? fuck ya (23) yes (16) no (14) If you have time (2) 55 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 5? (Vote): yes | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10227 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:09 Miragee wrote: LOL these images. First the Jaedong/Stork one, now this. Wtf is wrong with people.^^ is this a sign for the finalist? | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:08 GTR wrote: you dont have enough money because you're trying to get the 2nd gate + range before pumping goons. Also I think Best hid delayed the first round of goons to get a tech building at his hidden pylon? | ||
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hitthat
Poland2267 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:09 Miragee wrote: LOL these images. First the Jaedong/Stork one, now this. Wtf is wrong with people.^^ We generate the hype | ||
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13287 Posts
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:09 DwD wrote: You mean like BeSt tried in game1? Don't be so salty lol. I don't think proxy 1 gate is a cheese | ||
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FranzF1
Chile1710 Posts
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
Best won his games where he went with arbiter play, but then again he was already ahead heading into the late game thanks to the openings. But still I feel like he will regret his play in games 1 and 4 for sure. | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:08 Foxxan wrote: bloody best, seriously wtf do he go this super risky shit build for, without scouting even holy fuck Now we might get a shit tvt instead.................................................................. No wonder he never got #1 protoss with this shit mentally head It's really not a super risky build? At least not compared to his general game plan in this series. I mean, he went for 14 nex unscouted in one game. But nobody complained then because Sea didn't cheese that game... | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
No... lol He skipped building dragoons..... because he is a super greedy fucker that will never win anything with that kind of crap mentality. Didnt you see zealot popping out as first unit? WTF is that, obviously he skipped building dragoons... LOL fucjking idiot protoss | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13287 Posts
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:11 Miragee wrote: It's really not a super risky build? At least not compared to his general game plan in this series. I mean, he went for 14 nex unscouted in one game. But nobody complained then because Sea didn't cheese that game... he delayed his dragoon production while not even doing probe scout. And i think he wanted to proxy something even. I think he wanted to mindgame with the range upgrade+2gate thinking its dragoon rush while maybe evne doing a proxy dt. And it was 2-1 while doing hidden expo.. Its a risky move which i wouldnt approve of if it were 2-2 but since he was in lead it was OKAYISH to do it. | ||
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TT1
Canada10011 Posts
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vndestiny
Singapore3441 Posts
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:12 TT1 wrote: Weaker player won.. now we have to watch a TvT finals, puke. you don't give a lot of credit to the tyrant? | ||
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thezanursic
5497 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:10 Teoita wrote: Also I think Best hid delayed the first round of goons to get a tech building at his hidden pylon? I don't know how effecient this build is, but there is a build I used to do,where you make 2 gates, range, expand, then pump both gates after, both goons pop at the same time, just in time to defend a few timings, but I think going 1 gate, getting a goon, expanding, and just getting another goon while the gateway is building, is overall more efficient, soo I really dunno what he was going to do with that. | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:12 RowdierBob wrote: Best vs Flash would've been pretty cool too :/ Gotta admit that if Flash wins, which he should, Best would've been a cool for the grand finals. | ||
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Levque
88 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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hitthat
Poland2267 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:13 Cele wrote: you don't give a lot of credit to the tyrant? He didnt learn from OSL FvF semifinal overconfidence. | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
End of game 4 and game 5 might have been underwhelming, but all in all, that was a very good Bo5, very different games from one another and close overall. We didn't have that one very close macro game people always look for, I don't mind that much. | ||
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Thrillz
4313 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:09 Qikz wrote: Shit TvT? It'll be a TvT between arguably the best TvTers at the minute. Ehhh Best would've been more interesting. Flash will take care of Sea. | ||
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ZidaneTribal
United States2800 Posts
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TT1
Canada10011 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:13 Cele wrote: you don't give a lot of credit to the tyrant? I dont expect JD to win with hydra allins and 9 pools vs Flash. No offense to JD but i dont think his mechanics are up there yet to compete vs Flash in a bo5. | ||
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Broodwar4lyf
304 Posts
such a terrible finals to try and revive BW lol | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:12 classicyellow83 wrote: LOL Sea is talking like as if he's already play Flash in the finals =) Oh god haha | ||
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Lunaticman
Sweden1097 Posts
Macro cheese wins late game obviously game five didn't go to late game so. | ||
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:14 Thrillz wrote: Ehhh Best would've been more interesting. Flash will take care of Sea. Best vs flash would have been epic. With best's play with arbiter use and so on, wow. Now its not gonna happen cuz best likes to fuck up and not win-I think thats his motto. | ||
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
Can Jangbi please come back? | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12023 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:15 Foxxan wrote: Best vs flash would have been epic. With best's play with arbiter use and so on, wow. Now its not gonna happen cuz best likes to fuck up and not win-I think thats his motto. BeSts arbiter play if it was like it was today would not work vs Flash. Let's be honest. I love BeSt, but Sea won overall so gg! | ||
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
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TT1
Canada10011 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:15 Broodwar4lyf wrote: no scouting best, really? His b.o was selected specifically for that map, he planned on going 10/15 goon pressure. Probably would have followed it up with a proxy citadel/temp archive dt allin (because he wouldnt have put his probe there to robo, seeing as Sea could have spawned further away). Problem i have is he knows he's the better lategame player so theres no reason to play risky in game 5. Just go 1 gate, dont skip ur zealot (which he rarely does) and go into goon + range, head into a macro game from there and get a freewin vs bbs builds. | ||
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Bonybony
6 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tXWorjs.jpg) 2017 best year. | ||
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DarkNetHunter
1224 Posts
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Broodwar4lyf
304 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4138 Posts
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reminisce12
Australia318 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:17 TT1 wrote: His b.o was selected specifically for that map, he planned on going 10/15 goon pressure. Probably would have followed it up with a proxy citadel/temp archive dt allin (because he wouldnt have put his probe there to robo, seeing as Sea could have spawned further away). Problem i have is he knows he's the better lategame player so theres no reason to play risky in game 5. Just go 1 gate, dont skip ur zealot (which he rarely does) and go into goon + range, head into a macro game from there and get a freewin vs bbs builds. to be fair, I doubt best was even thinking about bbs because who the fuck goes bbs ever at the pro level | ||
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Zera
Lithuania716 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:16 tanngard wrote: Protoss is almost incapable of winning tournaments...sigh Even in this one when things was looking so great for P. Can Jangbi please come back? Last ASL winner was protoss... It's funny how so many people are so salty about Best losing :D Great finals are waiting for us whatever the outcome of FvJ  | ||
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
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GTR
51491 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:15 Hall0wed wrote: If you are in Korea and want to go see Jaedong vs Flash live I hope you are reading this while already lined up outside the studio. not even joking for this one. usually they reward those who line-up in the morning/afternoon with a ticket for entry so that you don't have to wait forever to get in (you can go do other things once you get your ticket). | ||
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Broodwar4lyf
304 Posts
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Thrillz
4313 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:21 duke91 wrote: Please JD save us from TvT final Flash is going to bop Jaedong I think | ||
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thezanursic
5497 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
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Esp1noza
Russian Federation481 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10227 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:15 Lunaticman wrote: omg SEA did a low eco cheese; BEST went for MACRO CHEESE EVERY GAME. Macro cheese wins late game obviously game five didn't go to late game so. every game? game 1 was a proxy gate... game 2 was 12 nex which isnt really "macro cheese", game 3 was standard, game 4 was the proxy base which was eco cheese, game 5 was a power goon build... what are you talking about? Your name is a great representation of who you are: a lunatic. | ||
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hitthat
Poland2267 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:25 Elyvilon wrote: TvT is a great matchup, idk what the problem people have with it is Its stereotype born from Canata TvT play I guess... | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
Sea: I never thought I would meet Flash in the finals. I mean there is a possibility i woud meet Flash in the finals. -_-;;;;;;; LOL | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12023 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:28 hitthat wrote: Its stereotype born from Canata TvT play I guess... Canata is awesome, no hating Canata! | ||
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hitthat
Poland2267 Posts
Canata was awsome in TvZ, however i didnt like his TvT to be honest, | ||
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:28 hitthat wrote: Its stereotype born from Canata TvT play I guess... now I'm remembering Canata TvTs on Wuthering Heights; thanks for that, I needed to sleep anyway | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
Canata is one of the least memorable players in esport history. | ||
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hitthat
Poland2267 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:34 usopsama wrote: Canata is one of the least memorable players in esport history. How is +3 valkyrie not memorable? XD | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:34 usopsama wrote: Canata is one of the least memorable players in esport history. And yet here you guys are uhhh remembering him:p On January 15 2017 21:29 classicyellow83 wrote: During the interview Sea: I never thought I would meet Flash in the finals. I mean there is a possibility i woud meet Flash in the finals. -_-;;;;;;; LOL LOL intra-NeOx trashtalk right here | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:40 classicyellow83 wrote: Sea is the most searched name on Naver.com right now =) Korea can't handle BW | ||
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Broodwar4lyf
304 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4138 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:20 Elyvilon wrote: to be fair, I doubt best was even thinking about bbs because who the fuck goes bbs ever at the pro level Still he should havd scouted I really don't get why pros dont scout sometimes. Sure you lose abit of economy but the information you get is much more worth it. | ||
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TT1
Canada10011 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:42 Broodwar4lyf wrote: Can we please go back how terrible BEST played game 1 4 and 5? lol ?? game 5 was a b.o loss, game 4 he tried to be cute with a carrier switch after he won 2 straight up games and fell flat on his face | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10227 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:42 Broodwar4lyf wrote: Can we please go back how terrible BEST played game 1 4 and 5? lol yeah game 1 was a misplay with failing to block the choke and letting vultures end him. game 4 was just... ugh. he should have won that game so easily, how do you lose 5 base vs 3 base as protoss on demian? oh, by going carriers, losing your entire ground army to a recall and not even remacroing it, then not doing anything with those carriers. game 5 was just the bbs. it wasnt him playing bad, it was just bad luck he chose that build and lacked scouting. | ||
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Vuk_91
Serbia1690 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:42 Dante08 wrote: Still he should havd scouted I really don't get why pros dont scout sometimes. Sure you lose abit of economy but the information you get is much more worth it. He thought that his 2 gates are safe vs anything, and he didn't need to attack early so there was no point to scout.. | ||
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L1ghtning
Sweden353 Posts
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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TT1
Canada10011 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:42 Dante08 wrote: Still he should havd scouted I really don't get why pros dont scout sometimes. Sure you lose abit of economy but the information you get is much more worth it. He cant scout AND go proxy citadel with 10/15, he loses too much eco and it slows down his build too much. Sending a probe out to scout and a 2nd probe to proxy a citadel is just too much eco lost when ur going for a tight build like 10/15 and have to probe cut. If he wanted to scout he would have gone for 1g zeal/goon etc., a standard opener. | ||
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Esp1noza
Russian Federation481 Posts
It did almost nothing though. Best rushes - died in 7 mins. Sea rushes - win in 3 mins. Best should go for longer games, playing safe at start. | ||
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
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TT1
Canada10011 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:49 Hall0wed wrote: Does anyone have an example or 2 of Protoss pros holding BBS? I am intrigued and wondering how it looks. you make a zealot and attack with probes to stop them from getting a bunk up, until u get a goon out | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4138 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:44 Vuk_91 wrote: He thought that his 2 gates are safe vs anything, and he didn't need to attack early so there was no point to scout.. Well to be fair Sea took a huge risk by using the most unexpected build and got rewarded for it. But I disagree that there's no point to scout, if T goes something like 1 rax FE you're just letting him get the nat up for free. | ||
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TT1
Canada10011 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:50 Dante08 wrote: Well to be fair Sea took a huge risk by using the most unexpected build and got rewarded for it. But I disagree that there's no point to scout, if T goes something like 1 rax FE you're just letting him get the nat up for free. You cant do anything to punish cc first (dont think many ppl go 1rax fe in pvt) unless u go proxy gate, thats why he opened up with it in g1 (i didnt watch g1 but i read that he did, which makes sense). He basically wanted to tell him "hey you better not play greedy and cc first against me if you dont want a b.o loss". | ||
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GTR
51491 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:49 Hall0wed wrote: Does anyone have an example or 2 of Protoss pros holding BBS? I am intrigued and wondering how it looks. the classic | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10227 Posts
never forget 34 kill goon. may you rest in auir. amen. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19295 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:53 TT1 wrote: You cant do anything to punish cc first (dont think many ppl go 1rax fe in pvt) unless u go proxy gate, thats why he opened up with it in g1 (i didnt watch g1 but i read that he did, which makes sense). He basically wanted to tell him "hey you better not play greedy and cc first against me if you dont want a b.o loss". 2013-2015 1rax FE was way more common then even FD, but so was Fighting Spirit. For many years 1gate expand without building a zealot was really common too. Only recently have we seen Protoss player build that first zealot. Generally gate->nexus->goon has been the goto as you can save 100 wasted minerals on a useless zealot for a better economy. | ||
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DarkNetHunter
1224 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:12 TT1 wrote: Weaker player won.. now we have to watch a TvT finals, puke. The stronger player won, or is winning not how you determine who the stronger player is? (facepalm) On January 15 2017 21:53 TT1 wrote: You cant do anything to punish cc first (dont think many ppl go 1rax fe in pvt) unless u go proxy gate, thats why he opened up with it in g1 (i didnt watch g1 but i read that he did, which makes sense). He basically wanted to tell him "hey you better not play greedy and cc first against me if you dont want a b.o loss". You pretty much NEVER see CC first at pro level TvP because 1 zeal completely destroys it, you almost ALWAYS see rax-CC gasless expand. He opened proxy gate (game1) vs it because rax-cc is common on EotS and proxygate punishes it if microed well. Sea however went for standard 11/11 FD so BeSt got fucked. Game 5 he was expecting rax-cc again and 10/15 would have high chance of killing terran there. Not to mention 10/15 is always a very strong build on non-ramped maps, so Sea really just mind gamed him here | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4138 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:53 TT1 wrote: You cant do anything to punish cc first (dont think many ppl go 1rax fe in pvt) unless u go proxy gate, thats why he opened up with it in g1 (i didnt watch g1 but i read that he did, which makes sense). He basically wanted to tell him "hey you better not play greedy and cc first against me if you dont want a b.o loss". Well in any case it was poor build choice by Best who should have just played standard 1 gate expand and get it to late game. And as some people have pointed out earlier he even skipped unit production until he saw the rush coming. | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 15 2017 22:15 DarkNetHunter wrote: The stronger player won, or is winning not how you determine who the stronger player is? (facepalm) No, this is a logical fallacy. It's not always the better player who wins. That's why we have "upsets", especially in Bo1 and Bo3/Bo5 _increases_ the chance of the better player winning. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
Holy shit! What an epic game! Had me hanging at the edge of my seat the whole time! Really thought Protoss would've died to the cheese. So surreal, almost seemed like an action movie, the suspense building up every little second. What a hero dragoon! He deserves a Fenix / Tassadar medal! Who were the players? | ||
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Zera
Lithuania716 Posts
On January 15 2017 22:27 RKC wrote: Holy shit! What an epic game! Had me hanging at the edge of my seat the whole time! Really thought Protoss would've died to the cheese. So surreal, almost seemed like an action movie, the suspense building up every little second. What a hero dragoon! He deserves a Fenix / Tassadar medal! Who were the players? Light vs Tempest | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 15 2017 22:27 RKC wrote: Holy shit! What an epic game! Had me hanging at the edge of my seat the whole time! Really thought Protoss would've died to the cheese. So surreal, almost seemed like an action movie, the suspense building up every little second. What a hero dragoon! He deserves a Fenix / Tassadar medal! Who were the players? Terran was Light (Pretty infamous for his shitty TvP and godlike TvZ), Protoss was Tempest (relatively unknown player irrc). | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On January 15 2017 22:31 Miragee wrote: Terran was Light (Pretty infamous for his shitty TvP and godlike TvZ), Protoss was Tempest (relatively unknown player irrc). Hm... So was it a BO win that Light botched up? | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:10 Cele wrote: srsly, not even taking into account who you are rooting for, that game 5 was uninspiring and boring. Well executed by Sea, but from a spectators PoV... meh. From spectators view? What about from the players view? Those game are just crap to play. | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 15 2017 22:45 RKC wrote: Hm... So was it a BO win that Light botched up? Yes and no. I think nobody in their right minds would say that mind played perfectly. He could have been more aggressive at times and might have won the game then. However, this was insanely well defended by the protoss imho. The way he played that he didn't leave Light much room for error. But yeah, the map was also in favour of Light... All things considered it's just very impressive that Tempest was able to hold, regardless of Light's play. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
But hey, if that's the level of Best's decision-making (i.e. bad), maybe we can't assume that he would've been better in the Finals... Flash would game-sense him to kingdom-come. Though it's still kinda hard to see Sea v Flash being a terrific series either. Do we now have to root for Jaedong to take down Flash in an upset, since JD vs Sea would be a more interesting Finals? Hmm, odds are against that outcome. But then again, this ASL has been Upset Central™. So who the eff knows anymore. | ||
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DarkNetHunter
1224 Posts
On January 15 2017 22:25 Miragee wrote: No, this is a logical fallacy. It's not always the better player who wins. That's why we have "upsets", especially in Bo1 and Bo3/Bo5 _increases_ the chance of the better player winning. Then my question would be how you would see BeSt as the better player. BeSt lost in a bo5. Sea also went further than him in the last ASL. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
Best was the more solid player, but he botched up G1 and G4. He didn't do enough to win. He lost, and deservingly so. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On January 15 2017 23:03 [[Starlight]] wrote: Well, that was a bit disappointing. I like Sea, but I think Best vs Flash would've been a better Finals. But hey, if that's the level of Best's decision-making (i.e. bad), maybe we can't assume that he would've been better in the Finals... Flash would game-sense him to kingdom-come. Though it's still kinda hard to see Sea v Flash being a terrific series either. Do we now have to root for Jaedong to take down Flash in an upset, since JD vs Sea would be a more interesting Finals? Hmm, odds are definitely against that outcome. But then again, this ASL has been Upset Central™. So who the eff knows anymore. How is it an Upset Central? The former greats (Flash, JD, Sea, Best, Bisu, Stork) are wrecking the post-KeSPA upstarts. Isn't this supposed to happen given time and practice? (Sorry, I haven't been following the games before the semis, so maybe I'm missing something in terms of form, performance, etc.) | ||
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HaFnium
United Kingdom1074 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:42 Dante08 wrote: Still he should havd scouted I really don't get why pros dont scout sometimes. Sure you lose abit of economy but the information you get is much more worth it. BBS is not that rare in rampless/reverse ramp map.... | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On January 15 2017 23:12 RKC wrote: How is it an Upset Central? The former greats (Flash, JD, Sea, Best, Bisu, Stork) are wrecking the post-KeSPA upstarts. Isn't this supposed to happen given time and practice? (Sorry, I haven't been following the games before the semis, so maybe I'm missing something in terms of form, performance, etc.) Eh? Okay... how about Sea over Bisu, and in a complete stomp, too... that surprised a lot of ppl. Best totally outclassing Hero, the alleged 'God of ZvP'. Another surprise to many. Unheralded GuemChi getting all the way to the Ro8, and then actually putting up quite a good fight vs Flash. And I say 'unheralded' as someone who really likes GuemChi, and thinks he's underrated. Effort, possibly the best Z in the world right now, and at least Top 3, getting eliminated in the Round of 24. All the Top ASL1 finishers except Sea getting shown the door very, very quickly. Blink and you missed 'em. So... what ASL you been watchin', bro? I mean, you can argue, "Well, wasn't a surprise to ME, yadda yadda yadda"... and that's fine, but you have to acknowledge that a lot of ppl *were* surprised by a lot of the results. And for good reasons, usually. | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 15 2017 23:05 DarkNetHunter wrote: Then my question would be how you would see BeSt as the better player. BeSt lost in a bo5. Sea also went further than him in the last ASL. Uhm, first of I didn't argue that Best was the better player in this case. I just don't like the argument that "the player who won is better" so I had to say something. That aside, I would argue that Best is probably a little bit better than Sea, just looking at the performance of both in terms of lategame management (macro, unit movement, multitasking) in this tournament. However, this series is indeed not indicative of who is better. Game 1 was a cheese that didn't work. Game 2+3, Best was economically ahead by the build and carried that into the end game. Game 4 was a hard fail by Best and Game 5 was a BO win. I personally think that neither Best nor Sea has a better chance against Flash (that's the point of discussion here, isn't it?). I would favour Flash against both of them but both have a serious chance for an upset. I don't know why people are being upset about a potential Flash vs Sea finals. I personally think that could be good. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
This series were really entertaining. Right after Tastosis started talking about which risks you must do to take deciding match where they mentioned those epic GSL finals where on last game MVP makes proxy 2 rax , Sea proceeds doing it. Balls of steel! Sea is no choker anymore! TT BeSt but Sea deserved it. BeSt throw 4th game pretty hard. Can't wait for JD vs. FlaSh. I really want 3-2 again! Hope Dong got some mindfuck in his pocket. So many salt against Sea LOL. It's disgusting to read it. Even if we got TvT finals it's not end of world, last finals were super one sided even if it wasn't mirror. Pray it's not ZvZ. I still think Sea can take 1 game out from FlaSh. Also viewers: Sea 16k > Flash 6k. | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On January 15 2017 23:26 Miragee wrote: Uhm, first of I didn't argue that Best was the better player in this case. I just don't like the argument that "the player who won is better" so I had to say something. That aside, I would argue that Best is probably a little bit better than Sea, just looking at the performance of both in terms of lategame management (macro, unit movement, multitasking) in this tournament. However, this series is indeed not indicative of who is better. Game 1 was a cheese that didn't work. Game 2+3, Best was economically ahead by the build and carried that into the end game. Game 4 was a hard fail by Best and Game 5 was a BO win. I personally think that neither Best nor Sea has a better chance against Flash (that's the point of discussion here, isn't it?). I would favour Flash against both of them but both have a serious chance for an upset. I don't know why people are being upset about a potential Flash vs Sea finals. I personally think that could be good. A lot of 'em probably think Best would've had a slightly better chance vs Flash (I agree, i.e. 'dat late game'), and that TvT is long and boring (it can be). But, any TvT with Flash in it sorta automatically becomes more interesting, doesn't it? Hard to find his level of execution dull. | ||
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On January 15 2017 23:26 Miragee wrote: #Uhm, first of I didn't argue that Best was the better player in this case. I just don't like the argument that "the player who won is better" so I had to say something. That aside, I would argue that Best is probably a little bit better than Sea, just looking at the performance of both in terms of lategame management (macro, unit movement, multitasking) in this tournament. However, this series is indeed not indicative of who is better. Game 1 was a cheese that didn't work. Game 2+3, Best was economically ahead by the build and carried that into the end game. Game 4 was a hard fail by Best and Game 5 was a BO win. I personally think that neither Best nor Sea has a better chance against Flash (that's the point of discussion here, isn't it?). I would favour Flash against both of them but both have a serious chance for an upset. I don't know why people are being upset about a potential Flash vs Sea finals. I personally think that could be good. I think people dislike this potential finals because they fear a stomp. Even though Sea is in the finals he has yet to show really impressive games this season. Meanwhile BeSt actually has a winning record last month vs. Flash and probably was the only one left who can go toe to toe with Flash in macro games. It probably also doesn't help that many people dislike tvt a lot | ||
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bot0004
2 Posts
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
He was ahead. Easily. I dont know what happened. Carriers was an odd choice. His control was not worthy of a pro gamer at times. I really hoped Best would win because a possible TvT final would be really sad for me. I dont enjoy TvT in particular.. Best vs Jeadong Best vs Flash would both have been amazing. Now i really hope Jeadon upsets Flash and we see a TvZ =) | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On January 15 2017 23:50 MaGic~PhiL wrote: That game four was a strategic(!) masterpiece from Best. Hiding the fast expansion, tricking Sea into thinking he has to defend vs dts or reaver. BeSt's idea was amazing. He was ahead. Easily. I dont know what happened. Carriers was an odd choice. His control was not worthy of a pro gamer at times. I really hoped Best would win because a possible TvT final would be really sad for me. I dont enjoy TvT in particular.. Best vs Jeadong Best vs Flash would both have been amazing. Now i really hope Jeadon upsets Flash and we see a TvZ =) It was great mind-gaming by Best with the ninja expo. I think he got too cocky and went for carriers to end the game in a flourish. What surprised was the sudden mass of goliaths from Sea. The observer didn't really catch when exactly he first started pumping them (they just suddenly joined the tank-vulture push midway, from what I saw). Maybe they were well-hidden. Which meant that Sea counter-mind-gamed Best towards the end. And that pulled him the win. If that was what happened, great recovery from Sea! | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17731 Posts
On January 15 2017 23:29 Miragee wrote: Sea didn't advance to the finals for the first time. He actually won multiple in post-kespa era. I think its his first final that isn't played online. | ||
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ShAsTa
Belgium2841 Posts
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Vuk_91
Serbia1690 Posts
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Hildegard
Germany316 Posts
On January 15 2017 23:46 bot0004 wrote: Is there any link to re-watch the matches? I tried the live streams but they all ended http://afreeca.tv/36833823/v/57587 afreeca.tv is a weird page. There is a live archive here: http://vod.afreeca.tv/ but it shows all vods and I couldn't find a place to only view the vods of a specific channel. Hopefully I missed something and there is a better way than browsing the live archive. | ||
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
On January 16 2017 00:13 RKC wrote: It was great mind-gaming by Best with the ninja expo. I think he got too cocky and went for carriers to end the game in a flourish. What surprised was the sudden mass of goliaths from Sea. The observer didn't really catch when exactly he first started pumping them (they just suddenly joined the tank-vulture push midway, from what I saw). Maybe they were well-hidden. Which meant that Sea counter-mind-gamed Best towards the end. And that pulled him the win. If that was what happened, great recovery from Sea! Maybe sea sensed that Carriers are coming, because Best didn't have that much of a ground army. | ||
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
But in his defense, I think only Flash can stand against Best in straight up macro game. Unfortunately, it is not enough to become the finalist. | ||
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On January 16 2017 02:09 duke91 wrote: Maybe sea sensed that Carriers are coming, because Best didn't have that much of a ground army. mostly likely he scanned the carriers, scanned the semi-hidden stargates + beacon, or had a scan that included the core and went "hmm that's weird why is this thing spinning" | ||
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bot0004
2 Posts
On January 16 2017 01:57 Hildegard wrote: http://afreeca.tv/36833823/v/57587 afreeca.tv is a weird page. There is a live archive here: http://vod.afreeca.tv/ but it shows all vods and I couldn't find a place to only view the vods of a specific channel. Hopefully I missed something and there is a better way than browsing the live archive. Thank you!!!! | ||
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Shinrei
United States240 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
On January 15 2017 23:46 bot0004 wrote: Is there any link to re-watch the matches? I tried the live streams but they all ended This is the best you can find! No lag. Oh it's posted above. This link is for Tastosis then: http://afreeca.tv/36855042/v/57590 | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On January 15 2017 21:44 FlaShFTW wrote: yeah game 1 was a misplay with failing to block the choke and letting vultures end him. game 4 was just... ugh. he should have won that game so easily, how do you lose 5 base vs 3 base as protoss on demian? oh, by going carriers, losing your entire ground army to a recall and not even remacroing it, then not doing anything with those carriers. game 5 was just the bbs. it wasnt him playing bad, it was just bad luck he chose that build and lacked scouting. not scouting and not building any zealots/dragoons until your opponent has an army in your base is pretty bad. A bit more than just bad luck. | ||
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Me_ToKa
Bulgaria309 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Starts at 1:39 Sorry I don't have .gif | ||
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Barneyk
Sweden310 Posts
He didn't expect Sea to chase after him so he just kept them where he thought they were safe and that cost him the game. I think going Carriers was fine, he was so far ahead economically he could abuse it. Once he lost the critical mass of carriers he was just completely unable to do anything and Sea played aggressively and exploited it. And game 1 was nice, the vulture runby timing of Sea was beautiful. I feel like Best was on another level and ahead of Sea for the most part and as a huge Best fan it hurts like hell to see him go out like this. But at the same time, I really like Sea and I am happy for him. He exploited a mistake by Best very well in game 4 and went for balls cheese in game 5, fantastic series all around. And I get a bit annoyed with people who says cheese isn't fun, if you just play standard every game, what is the fun in that? Bests tech fake out in game 4 was amazing to see and the potential for cheese is what makes things exciting in the early game. | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
They are so cute together. | ||
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Zera
Lithuania716 Posts
On January 16 2017 00:13 RKC wrote: It was great mind-gaming by Best with the ninja expo. I think he got too cocky and went for carriers to end the game in a flourish. What surprised was the sudden mass of goliaths from Sea. The observer didn't really catch when exactly he first started pumping them (they just suddenly joined the tank-vulture push midway, from what I saw). Maybe they were well-hidden. Which meant that Sea counter-mind-gamed Best towards the end. And that pulled him the win. If that was what happened, great recovery from Sea! Observer did catch the machine shop spining (goliath range upgrade) so probably at that moment Sea started building goliaths | ||
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On January 16 2017 03:38 BlackJack wrote: not scouting and not building any zealots/dragoons until your opponent has an army in your base is pretty bad. A bit more than just bad luck. his scout probably would have found Sea's base around the time the marines arrived anyway, that's the timing BBS is intended to hit | ||
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lazz
Australia3119 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
http://vod.afreecatv.com/PLAYER/STATION/17300413 | ||
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
I was watching Firebathero call the series and it's super great how insightful his stuff is. FUCK YEAH YUM BO SUNG! | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
*Slits Wrists* | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
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Dental Floss
United States1015 Posts
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RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
Best sacrificed almost all of his ground units without killing many units of Sea and Sea abused that and went straight for the natural. At this point Best couldnt even rebuild the ground army because Sea was already at the gates of the main. Best didnt have enough gateways on the other side of the map yet. People here are trying to make it sound like anybody could have won that game 4. | ||
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Dental Floss
United States1015 Posts
On January 16 2017 06:24 RoomOfMush wrote: People here really aint fair towards Sea, I think he played great. There is more to game 4 than Best screwing up. If Sea doesnt realize it and capitalizes on Bests mistakes the game would still go to Best. But Sea was very quick in that game. No indecisiveness, no confusion, just straight forward good decision making. Best sacrificed almost all of his ground units without killing many units of Sea and Sea abused that and went straight for the natural. At this point Best couldnt even rebuild the ground army because Sea was already at the gates of the main. Best didnt have enough gateways on the other side of the map yet. People here are trying to make it sound like anybody could have won that game 4. Also, people look at Sea's control and critique it, which is fine, but realize too that he is all over the map with 2-3 groups of vultures which is what makes them hard to control. In game 4 he managed to kill 15+ probes by midgame which is how he turned things around. Best really couldn't seem to lock down the map in the way he wanted until it was too late. | ||
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On January 16 2017 06:13 Dental Floss wrote: People are really under estimating Sea, he was a total beast in proleague and towards the end he was quickly becoming one of the best terrans on the scene. There are players that made the decision to focus on PL at the expense of individual leagues and people often overlook them. It was a long time ago but remember that the individual league stars often slumped in PL when they had to sacrifice their prep time to prepare their individual games. Everyone knows about Sea's accomplishments in Teamleagues here. People also know that he was really strong in the amateur scene. But what people also know is that according to the other pros and even korean TL members, contributing on this site, Sea was barely practicing at all for ASL and focused on establishing his stream. And you can see it in his controls and macro. Mind you: I'm still angry at BeSt and Bisu for donating wins to Sea but if BeSt was in the finale against Flash we could see some macro games. Now it's basically: Finish in under 10 mins or Flash wins. | ||
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FusionCutter
Canada974 Posts
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 16 2017 07:27 FusionCutter wrote: From a Korean Point of View, was cheesing in the 5th game bad manner? Or totally fine and a move of strategic genius? How is that bad manner? Wtf? I'm not a fan of cheese but this is ridiculous. | ||
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On January 16 2017 07:27 FusionCutter wrote: From a Korean Point of View, was cheesing in the 5th game bad manner? Or totally fine and a move of strategic genius? Maybe it's bad mannered if you just play a fun series but in an actual tournament? I don't think anyone thinks it was bad mannered | ||
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iSometric
2221 Posts
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Vuk_91
Serbia1690 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On January 16 2017 08:23 Vuk_91 wrote: I honestly believe that BBS vs Protoss is the toughest build to face in Brood War. It's much easier to beat it with Zerg, and that's also very hard! It feels like people really are underestimating just how much of a "ballsy and could've really backfired" move this was by Sea. This is Jaedong level imo. | ||
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jamesuh
United States82 Posts
When an EMP'd arbiter still gets a recall... ![[image loading]](https://puu.sh/tnr6G/3ec6b44a9a.jpg) | ||
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Terrorbladder
2719 Posts
On January 16 2017 03:43 Me_ToKa wrote: This is how I imagine Sea leaving the studio: + Show Spoiler + What is this video about? | ||
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LittLeLives
United States692 Posts
On January 16 2017 05:31 usopsama wrote: Here is the VOD with the first-person views. http://vod.afreecatv.com/PLAYER/STATION/17300413 Thanks. It turns out that Sea did scan the Carriers (14:24 game time) and immediately macro'd up Goliaths just moments before BeSt recalled onto the other side of the main. BeSt sees the Goliaths coming out (15:27) and, with his fleet already half-way to his fifth decides to intercept the tanks going to his main. He never caught scent of the Goliaths Sea got from earlier so he starts producing more Carriers between those times. Getting his fleet caught out and losing 2 ships at 16:49 was really bad, though I don't know how much it would have changed things. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10227 Posts
On January 16 2017 03:38 BlackJack wrote: not scouting and not building any zealots/dragoons until your opponent has an army in your base is pretty bad. A bit more than just bad luck. Read the part where i say it was the build choice. There are plenty of people here who are saying you cut a goon to get the second gateway and range. To add insult to injury, he tried to proxy as well which made it even worse. Thats not being bad, its having a BO loss while even going greedy with the proxy and not scouting. Bad would be the carrier control in game 4 | ||
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vndestiny
Singapore3441 Posts
On January 16 2017 10:38 LittLeLives wrote: Thanks. It turns out that Sea did scan the Carriers (14:24 game time) and immediately macro'd up Goliaths just moments before BeSt recalled onto the other side of the main. BeSt sees the Goliaths coming out (15:27) and, with his fleet already half-way to his fifth decides to intercept the tanks going to his main. He never caught scent of the Goliaths Sea got from earlier so he starts producing more Carriers between those times. Getting his fleet caught out and losing 2 ships at 16:49 was really bad, though I don't know how much it would have changed things. How did you watch FPVOD of game 4 ? The video linked cut off at the 60 minute mark after game 3 for me :/ ( on mobile). Edit: nvm apparently the non-mobile version is full duration, interesting. | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
Op needs spoilers updated | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On January 16 2017 12:21 Grettin wrote: Holy shit sea!!! Op needs spoilers updated done. | ||
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Dental Floss
United States1015 Posts
On January 16 2017 06:46 TheNewEra wrote: Everyone knows about Sea's accomplishments in Teamleagues here. People also know that he was really strong in the amateur scene. But what people also know is that according to the other pros and even korean TL members, contributing on this site, Sea was barely practicing at all for ASL and focused on establishing his stream. And you can see it in his controls and macro. Mind you: I'm still angry at BeSt and Bisu for donating wins to Sea but if BeSt was in the finale against Flash we could see some macro games. Now it's basically: Finish in under 10 mins or Flash wins. lol though at assuming flash is a auto win against jd. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On January 16 2017 11:30 FlaShFTW wrote: Read the part where i say it was the build choice. There are plenty of people here who are saying you cut a goon to get the second gateway and range. To add insult to injury, he tried to proxy as well which made it even worse. Thats not being bad, its having a BO loss while even going greedy with the proxy and not scouting. Bad would be the carrier control in game 4 What was BeSt's game-plan in G5? Seems rather unconventional, going double gateway, skipping zeal for dragoon upgrade, and rushing for some quick tech. What was his build hoping to counter, and weak against? Was his build as risky as Sea's BBS? | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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tedster
984 Posts
Best has great TvP but there's no way whatsoever with play like he showed today he could beat Flash. There's just not that kind of room for error with recalls for example - Flash doesn't leave dead zones where there are no mines for someone to blind recall into. Likewise some of the brain farts that Best had throughout the various games (even the ones he won) will typically sink you immediately vs his TvP. You can't beat Flash just by having great mechanics and Best, while showing off some really good mind games vs. Sea, also showed some lapses in judgment and timing that are super exploitable by God. Looking at the games with Guemchi, outside of G1 and failing to research Recall G-chizzle didn't really make any mental mistakes and had excellent timing with his engages. His recalls still did nothing and he obviously doesn't have quite the macro of Best but he made much, much better choices - and still got 3-1ed pretty cleanly, despite putting up a hell of a fight. TvT is a little less punishing for individual judgment errors due to the scope and speed of armies so while an unpolished player like Sea is probably completely boned in a Bo5 I would expect there to be a lot more back and forth in the individual games. edit: Holy moley i forgot how salty SKT protoss fans get after a loss | ||
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Dromar
United States2145 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
BeSt's mistake was trying to play 'risky' and 'gimmicky' too. It's just not his style, and played against his strengths and towards Sea's advantage. (In SC2 terms, it's like trying to out-trick the trickster god sOs himself - not a very wise move in a long series.) So yes, on a strategic-level, Sea was the superior player. And his execution was better since he was playing a strategy that suited him well (whilst BeSt executed poorly because he was trying out a strategy he wasn't comfortable with). | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
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Ghost151
United States290 Posts
omg what a choke from Light. 4 probes left. Goes for the Dragoon with the shield battery. *facepalm* Not that he didn't already screw up a couple times already by that point, but still, that was especially cringeworthy. | ||
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DracoMortuiVolantus
68 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/011n7Ew.jpg) | ||
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DracoMortuiVolantus
68 Posts
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RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
On January 16 2017 20:22 DracoMortuiVolantus wrote: it is not the first time we see best stumble in BoX, he is mentally not well prepared, he don't lack in any other field, his own decision to go for carriers on map You should not go carriers was what killed him not Sea, because he lost two games to bbs and vulture sneaking and won two games in AMAZING fashion, he was overall much better player, but as I said already he cracked mentally. Good series nevertheless. How can he be a better player if me made big mistakes and "cracked mentally"? That to me is a sign of a weaker player. Mechanics alone is not what will win you tournaments on the pro level. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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Xeln4g4
Italy1209 Posts
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Miragee
8584 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12023 Posts
On January 16 2017 21:58 Xeln4g4 wrote: All of us cheering for Jae tomorrow, TvT final would be really sad :/ I'm cheering for Flash. TvT is the best matchup in the game. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On January 16 2017 22:00 Miragee wrote: I'm cheering for Jaedong tomorrow because he is my favourite player of all time not because I'm afraid of a potential TvT final... Well i am cheering for JD for the same reason, but i really don't want a TvT finals either haha Not that TvT cannot be interesting/fun to watch, but TvZ is simply way better imo. | ||
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DracoMortuiVolantus
68 Posts
How come You have never encountered game in any sport/esport that in Your feeling loosing team/player was better? it happens from time to time and it happened yesterday. | ||
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On January 16 2017 21:03 RoomOfMush wrote: How can he be a better player if me made big mistakes and "cracked mentally"? That to me is a sign of a weaker player. Mechanics alone is not what will win you tournaments on the pro level. that's also why Pj was a better player than SAviOr and iloveoov right? | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On January 15 2017 22:58 Foxxan wrote: From spectators view? What about from the players view? Those game are just crap to play. Well, don't disagree. But then players pick these buildorders to win, not to play entertaining games. So it doesn't matter so much to them if the game was a nice game to play. | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
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Harem
United States11393 Posts
On January 16 2017 22:23 Qikz wrote: I'm cheering for Flash. TvT is the best matchup in the game. It's not even the best mirror matchup though. | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 17 2017 02:33 Starlightsun wrote: Guys it wouldn't be TvT, it would be FvT. Big difference. Flash's TvT offline is pretty untested right now. His last big TvT was in the ASL last season and he lost 0-3 to Last. In his prime I also always had the feeling that TvT was the match-up where oponents had the best chance of winning. He played a very standard style. His TvT looked the most human out of all three match ups. | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
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Shinrei
United States240 Posts
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stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
On January 16 2017 15:33 RKC wrote: BeSt's mistake was trying to play 'risky' and 'gimmicky' too. It's just not his style, and played against his strengths and towards Sea's advantage. (In SC2 terms, it's like trying to out-trick the trickster god sOs himself - not a very wise move in a long series.) Exactly, in my oppinion Sea cant endure at Best pace in straight macro game, we saw that in game 3. And BeSt beat himself with that strange play he picked. A tournament of dissapointments indeed. | ||
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Miragee
8584 Posts
On January 17 2017 03:27 _Animus_ wrote: Exactly, in my oppinion Sea cant endure at Best pace in straight macro game, we saw that in game 3. And BeSt beat himself with that strange play he picked. A tournament of dissapointments indeed. What, game 3 ist the worst example because Sea went for a 2 fac push and did exactly 0 damage... The only reason it wasn't a complete roll-over was because Sea's greedy play was off the charts and Best let him do his thing. On January 17 2017 02:49 corumjhaelen wrote: Nah, in his prime, Flash's TvT was beyond ridiculous. 22 win streak, and it made absolutely no sense how he would come back from behind in some of those matches. I think it was actually his strongest match-up. Yeah, I might remember that the wrong way. It might have been a little later when Flash started to drop TvTs to nobodies. For example his infamous group stage drop out, losing to Ssak and Classic. | ||
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Me_ToKa
Bulgaria309 Posts
Sea leaving the studio: Starts at 1:39 | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12023 Posts
On January 17 2017 02:33 Starlightsun wrote: Guys it wouldn't be TvT, it would be FvT. Big difference. I miss FvF(vF) Flash vs FanTaSy and Flash vs Firebathero were honestly the games that kept me watching Broodwar over and over again. The TvTs they had were outstanding. | ||
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RPGabe
United States192 Posts
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jonich0n
United States1982 Posts
gawd I'm so happy BW is back in such a big way. this is all way too awesome. | ||
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darktreb
United States3016 Posts
On January 17 2017 03:55 Miragee wrote: What, game 3 ist the worst example because Sea went for a 2 fac push and did exactly 0 damage... The only reason it wasn't a complete roll-over was because Sea's greedy play was off the charts and Best let him do his thing. Yeah, I might remember that the wrong way. It might have been a little later when Flash started to drop TvTs to nobodies. For example his infamous group stage drop out, losing to Ssak and Classic. Can you remember off the top of your head another example of Flash dropping TvT to mediocre players? Or did one bad day of two games total lead to your opinion? I'm not saying this to accuse. Genuinely curious how you got to this impression. Flash was so good at TvT for the last three years of his career that even with "slumps" by his standards, he ended BW with the highest vs T ELO out of any player at the time (live ELO, not peak ELO, and not just TvT, any matchup vT). This is even in spite of the 3-0 loss to Fantasy only a month or so before the end of pro BW, and losing 5 of his last 6 TvT. | ||
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Probemicro
3708 Posts
he would have won. easily. | ||
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GTR
51491 Posts
On January 17 2017 09:15 darktreb wrote: Can you remember off the top of your head another example of Flash dropping TvT to mediocre players? Or did one bad day of two games total lead to your opinion? I'm not saying this to accuse. Genuinely curious how you got to this impression. Flash was so good at TvT for the last three years of his career that even with "slumps" by his standards, he ended BW with the highest vs T ELO out of any player at the time (live ELO, not peak ELO, and not just TvT, any matchup vT). This is even in spite of the 3-0 loss to Fantasy only a month or so before the end of pro BW, and losing 5 of his last 6 TvT. when flash's tvt win streak of 22 games was broken, i don't think many people expected sea.really to be the one to break it. | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
Stork vs BBS Stork's micro and crisis management is terrifying. | ||
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Jealous
10224 Posts
Really hoping for no TvT finals T_T I feel like it would kind of kill the energy of ASL for me. Prior to this result I would have ranked the potential semis in terms of personal interest as: 1. Best vs. Flash 2. Best vs. Jaedong 3. Sea vs. Jaedong 4. Sea vs. Flash And I'm sure I'm not the only one. Feels bad to be deprived of a Best vs. Flash finals ): | ||
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darktreb
United States3016 Posts
On January 17 2017 12:18 GTR wrote: when flash's tvt win streak of 22 games was broken, i don't think many people expected sea.really to be the one to break it. I agree there were plenty of cases. No one only loses in their matchup to "expected" players, though I agree that Really was extra surprising as he wasn't even considered strong at TvT like Skyhigh or Last. Was just curious about this particular poster's reason for the memory. | ||
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