EPT[ASL2] Ro16 Day 4 - Page 27
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Peeano
Netherlands5204 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10258 Posts
Shes so cute >\< also that rack though. I have new waifu crush | ||
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SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
On December 28 2016 05:34 FlaShFTW wrote: Shes so cute >\< also that rack though. I have new waifu crush Actually she is mine. Bo5 for her honor? | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10258 Posts
On December 28 2016 05:39 SCC-Faust wrote: Actually she is mine. Bo5 for her honor? no shes mine fuck off. I dont have my setup rn. When i get back home in a few days we will grudgematch the shit outta each other | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On December 28 2016 07:13 Starlightsun wrote: RETURN OF THE BONJWAS Technically, isn't Flash the only bonjwa present? Though Bisu and Stork are probably the two best Protosses of all-time, and one could understand if someone wanted to think of Jaedong as 'the uncrowned bonjwa' or something (plus probably the best Zerg of all-time). | ||
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Miragee
8619 Posts
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
On December 28 2016 07:24 [[Starlight]] wrote: Technically, isn't Flash the only bonjwa present? Though Bisu and Stork are probably the two best Protosses of all-time, and one could understand if someone wanted to think of Jaedong as 'the uncrowned bonjwa' or something (plus probably the best Zerg of all-time). None of TBLS is a bonjwa. Bonjwa: Someone who is unanimously a clear favorite against any opponent possible. TBLS are by definition not bonjwas because they had each other, who were always able to take a game from each other. Flash was not a bonjwa because still no one expected him to roflstomp Jaedong, although he may have been the favorite (but it was not clear). Savior was a bonjwa until FBH/Bisu. Bonjwa is not a synonym for 'best player'. Why would there even be a special term for that? If you don't like that, then don't use the term bonjwa and use 'best player' instead. | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On December 28 2016 07:43 duke91 wrote: None of TBLS is a bonjwa. Bonjwa: Someone who is unanimously a clear favorite against any opponent possible. TBLS are by definition not bonjwas because they had each other, who were always able to take a game from each other. Flash was not a bonjwa because still no one expected him to roflstomp Jaedong, although he may have been the favorite (but it was not clear). Savior was a bonjwa until FBH/Bisu. Bonjwa is not a synonym for 'best player'. Why would there even be a special term for that? If you don't like that, then don't use the term bonjwa and use 'best player' instead. Flash was not only a bonjwa, he was way more dominant than any other bonjwa. | ||
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Miragee
8619 Posts
On December 28 2016 07:27 Miragee wrote: Not this discussion again, pls. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On December 28 2016 07:43 duke91 wrote: None of TBLS is a bonjwa. Bonjwa: Someone who is unanimously a clear favorite against any opponent possible. TBLS are by definition not bonjwas because they had each other, who were always able to take a game from each other. Flash was not a bonjwa because still no one expected him to roflstomp Jaedong, although he may have been the favorite (but it was not clear). Savior was a bonjwa until FBH/Bisu. Bonjwa is not a synonym for 'best player'. Why would there even be a special term for that? If you don't like that, then don't use the term bonjwa and use 'best player' instead. lol. Flash was sooo good that he was nicknamed God. I think that by itself states a lot about who flash is and the comparison to previous bonjwas. Also, please drop this or move it to another thread. Let's keep this for day 4 of Ro16. | ||
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prOxi.swAMi
Australia3091 Posts
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Bonjwa Repent. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10258 Posts
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
Bonjwa was a meme that was often used within the Korean internet realm without having all that baggage it carries now. It was used for July on various Korean communities such as FighterForum. After playing second fiddle to iloveoov in 2004, July struggled to prove his superiority against NaDa and GoRush in early 2005, but after his triumph in EVER 2005 OGN StarLeague, some of his fans tried to annoint him as "Park-Bonjwa", as the clear cut best player of his era. However, his nickname did not stick, and was met with backclash from other fans who said July wasn't worthy of a loftly title such as bonjwa. This was when sAviOr was starting his insane MSL streak of five consecutive finals as the best player in the scene. People often jokingly called him a "Banjwa" a play on words of bonjwa and the Korean word for half, referencing his constant failures in the OGN StarLeague, which had more prize money and prestige back then. After he finally qualified for the OGN StarLeague, his domination in every other highly viewed platforms of competition (MSL, ProLeague, and SuperFights) made him a clear candidate as someone who could be annointed as a "bonjwa". The term Lim-Lee-Choi was all the rage back then, taking the surnames of BoxeR, NaDa, and iloveoov as the lineage of both the best three terrans, the three most successful players in terms of achievement, and players who each dominated their respective eras. NaDa, although past his prime, was making a resurgence of sorts late into his career, and had just won his third OGN StarLeague, and made another finals against sAviOr. It was the battle of old versus new. KeSPA ranked one (due to the higher number of points KeSPA used to give for OGN StarLeague) versus KeSPA ranked two player (sAviOr fans were furiously that he could dominate every other realm, yet was rated second). The most successful OGN StarLeague player at the time in terms of number of championships won, versus the most successful player of the MSL-era (NaDa was slightly more accomplished if we count the KPGA Tournament days). The most successful terran of all time versus the new hope for zerg, with the map pool favouring terrans (not for the first time or by the most insane amount, but the hype of the circumstances heightened the balance discussion). It was insane in the Korean communities. It was the clash of ideals. OGN fans versus MBC Game fans. Terran fans versus zerg fans. The fans of the old guard versus the fans of the newer generation. People would wager all of their online pride for one of the most anticipated, and most discussed finals in history. As you all know. sAviOr won the match convincingly, and for a week before his fall to Bisu, Korean communities named it the "Seven days of absolute diplomatic immunity". sAviOr was now free from all his critics, and everybody were either silent in mourning or embraced their new "bonjwa" with open arms as sAviOr fans ran wild with praises and nicknames for their new god. sAviOr had done it. This was back when only four players had more than three OGN/KPGA Tournament/MSL titles. A new bonjwa lineage of "Lim-Lee-Choi-Ma" was created, and due to the similarities between NaDa, iloveoov, and sAviOr had in their careers (three MBC Game hosted tournament wins before establishing their dominance with a OGN StarLeague win), sAviOr was now in the realm of not only the GOAT discussion in terms of career achievements, but players who dominated the scene to an insane degree in terms of win rates during their peaks. People would come up with statistics for annual win percentage, and compare the win rates of BoxeR from 2001, NaDa from 2002, iloveoov in 2003, and sAviOr in 2006. It looked right. It felt right. Everybody was comfortable with the new bonjwa lineage, and what the title of bonjwa meant. Now comes Taek-Beng-Lee-Ssang. As you all know. Bisu was the earliest to break out amongst the four, and his gorgeous looks and his most dramatic surprising finals win against sAviOr (just a week after everybody annointed him as the indisputed bonjwa, and retrospectively grouped him with the lineage of Lim-Lee-Choi as the four bonjwas of Starcraft) made him the new superstar of the modern era. Everybody wanted him to be the bonjwa. It was no different from Korean or English communities. Protoss fans finally thought they had a bonjwa title in sight. Fans of Bisu desperately wanted Bisu to succeed. Even the media hyped him, despite being mediocre in the ProLeague, and overall win percentage. His MSL finals streak was eerily reminiscent of the previous bonjwas, and his fans were now sure he would get his third MSL title, and OGN title to secure his place in history forever. He would go into a slump after failing in his third MSL finals, and getting thrashed in the semi-finals of OGN StarLeagues, but his fans would still be harping on about bonjwa for years to come, diluting the terminology of the word. Along comes Jaedong, and wins the Golden Mouse in the shortest period of time (610 days since his debut OGN StarLeague win), and with his MSL win, he had a weird composition of achievements for the fans who were more used to the opposite composition of three MSL titles and a single OGN StarLeague title. Fans of Jaedong wanted to crown him as the fifth bonjwa, but was met with heavy backclash from Bisu fans (who were locked in a battle with Jaedong fans who were almost as numerous and loud as the Bisu fans, Flash never had that much fandom in Korea) who were bitter from the rejection of bonjwahood for their handsome prince. Jaedong fanbase claimed that Jaedong already achieved as much as the previous bonjwas, and the time frame was similar to sAviOr who also needed two years to complete his entire set of four titles. Bisu fans spewed all the arguments they've heard from Bisu-doubters back at Jaedong, saying his string of finals was broken in between, his overall win percentage wasn't as high, and his failure to lead Hwaseung Oz to victory against SK Telecom T1, losing multiple times to FanTaSy in what looked to be his limitation after practicing both for Bisu and FanTasy, was indicative that Jaedong wasn't that much further ahead of his competition like the past bonjwas were. Jaedong fans retorted by saying it didn't even matter if Jaedong wasn't recognized as a bonjwa, as he accomplished so much already at a young age, and he would go on to achieve more than the bonjwas. After Jaedong's fifth title, it looked to be the case. Then Flash suddenly started to go on his unreal streak that was unmatched before or since, and stomped Jaedong from ever winning another title by defeating him in three different finals (two MSL finals, one OGN StarLeague finals). After reaching every single OGN StarLeague, and MSL finals. Winning the ProLeague as the best player, even overcoming the superior man power of SK Telecom T1 (Bisu, FanTaSy, and BeSt who was utilized specifically as the Flash sniper) unlike Jaedong, and winning the WCG 2010 in the off-season, Flash had done it all, and silenced all critics. Nobody, not even Jaedong or Bisu fans could retort what Flash fans had to say. By this point, it felt odd. Bonjwa used to be the highest title a Starcraft player could achieve, but now was relegated to a terminology of players who dominated an era. Bonjwas were no longer synonymous with both the most dominating and most successful Starcraft players of all time. Flash fans accepted the title of bonjwa, but wanted more. Bonjwa was a title that lesser mortals such as Bisu, or Jaedong tried, and failed to get. Flash fans wanted to separate themselves from the rest of the field after a season of the most dominating performance ever seen from a professional player. They annointed Flash as "God", and would scoff at the other fanbase, saying you can go fight for the title of bonjwas between yourselves, our player had reached god-status. Bonjwa was a terminology that was born, and died with sAviOr. The lineage was created retrospectively after sAviOr fans got excited that sAviOr was the sole zerg representative in a lineage of the four most dominating, and sucessful players in history thus far. Bisu fanboys tried their hardest to water down the criteria to include their superstar into the line-up, and when met with heavy backlash, raised the criteria to some insane level of domination (citing Jaedong's failure at Arena MSL unlike sAviOr who managed to overcome map imbalance, citing his failures in the ProLeague finals versus SK Telecom T1, and conveniently leaving out the fact that sAviOr actually was prone to even bigger failures of failing to qualify for all OGN StarLeague during his two year reign apart from his final attempt) in order to prevent Jaedong from getting the title of bonjwa after he achieved four titles within a similar frame of time to sAviOr's reign. Then Flash came along and achieved that insane level of criteria of needing to dominate his opposition across all platforms, winning all the necessaary titles, and having an insanely high win percentage while doing so. Flash achieved what Bisu fans created to ensure that if Bisu couldn't get the title of bonjwa, no one could. Flash fans felt unsatisfied with just being grouped with the other bonjwas, after such a perfect season of domination, and prefered the title of "God" over "Bonjwa", and other fans could do nothing but nod in approval after such a performance. This is the story of bonjwa. It begins and ends with sAviOr. It was used by Bisu fans to promote their idol, and twisted and turned its meaning so that Jaedong couldn't get it. Flash fans got themselves a new nickname to promote their idol, and the terminology of bonjwa was mostly abandoned as a relic of the past since then. I don't know what happened to the terminology after it caught on like wildfire in the English speaking realm, but this is how the story unfolded in Korea, the birth place of the terminology. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10258 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On December 28 2016 12:11 FlaShFTW wrote: Great post and probably the best to sum it all up. This needs to go somewhere in the Bonjwa page in the liquipedia. Seconded. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On December 28 2016 11:26 Letmelose wrote: Bonjwa story telling time. Bonjwa was a meme that was ... unfolded in Korea, the birth place of the terminology. This sounds really familiar to something I read a while ago. Did you post this story on TL before by any chance? Because I distinctly recall the end with Saviour part of it etc... Either way, great read overall as usual. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10258 Posts
On December 28 2016 12:25 BigFan wrote: This sounds really familiar to something I read a while ago. Did you post this story on TL before by any chance? Because I distinctly recall the end with Saviour part of it etc... Either way, great read overall as usual. yeah its in the current liquipedia article for bonjwa as one of the links at the bottom. | ||
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